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#1044871 - 1st Oct 2017 9:08am Catalan Referendum ***
granny Offline

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Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15116
Loc: Wirral

It would seem that this is about to be stopped in it's tracks if possible, but it would also appear that there is likely to be trouble if that does happen.

Another system in Spain that takes their money and puts it in a different money bag for use elsewhere.

I'm not sure why they are being driven to this independence referendum, but neither am I thinking that Spain has such force as to legally stop it.

Scotland were allowed to have their referendum, we didn't object.
It seem to me that there is trouble afoot in every political corner these days, and the EU ( or more Brussels) seem to be very much on the 'clamp down' of anything they don't like.

Very concerning for the future..IMO. There again I don't think any one group of people can control approx 750million without such over riding authority and extremes .

The lid is likely to blow off Europe very soon, and I hope we are out before it happens.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41457238



Edited by granny (1st Oct 2017 9:11am)
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Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#1044902 - 1st Oct 2017 6:45pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
assassin Online   content
Old Hand

Registered: 4th Jan 2011
Posts: 301
Loc: On the tip of an iceberg
link press here now the police are fighting the fire crews it's nuts
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""sileo in pacis"

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#1044905 - 1st Oct 2017 10:21pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
Moonstar Offline

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Registered: 2nd Jul 2011
Posts: 1259
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Basically it all goes back historically to the twelfth century but in more recent times the Spanish Civil War and Franco's iron fist - not removed until 1975, the repercussions linger.

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#1044906 - 1st Oct 2017 10:31pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10926
Loc: Birkenhead
I don't see how having a vote can be illegal and warrant the actions against the Catalonians by the Spanish police.

Whether the referendum is legal or not is another issue and nothing to do with the people voting. It comes under the right to free speech, it is expressing an opinion. Lets see what the mighty EU has to say on a blatant breach of one of their supposed prime principles.

Imagine putting a poll on WikiWirral and the heavy brigade arriving and bashing down your door!
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1044966 - 2nd Oct 2017 3:01pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
casper Online   content
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Registered: 13th May 2012
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Anyone for the International Brigade?

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#1045049 - 3rd Oct 2017 3:26pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 3088
Loc: Wirral

I havent really been closely following the lead up to the Catalonian situation so Im not really sure of all the background, but ignoring the terrible inexcusable violence for a minute and whether the vote is legal (which hasnt yet been decided by the constitutional court), would I be right in getting the impression that Catalonia is a hugely wealthy privileged area of Spain, a real hub for finance etc and they dont want their rich regions ways and economy , averaged down to a less desirable level, by being subjected to being ruled by the democracy of a 'whole' Spain , so want to vote for independence for their area to maintain their present standard of living and culture , meaning that with the high earning and productive bits gone, the rest of Spain would end up basically poorer as the Govt would have less income (from the taxed rich) to play with ?

Is this similar in principle to the talk you hear from London of wanting to be independant from the rest of the UK because the majority of them didnt want Brexit? Not about proper democracy at all, just about limited democracy ie within an area wanting to keep something that is particularly beneficial to itself?

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#1045052 - 3rd Oct 2017 4:54pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: venice]
diggingdeeper Offline

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Registered: 9th Jul 2008
Posts: 10926
Loc: Birkenhead
Originally Posted By: venice
I havent really been closely following the lead up to the Catalonian situation so Im not really sure of all the background, but ignoring the terrible inexcusable violence for a minute and whether the vote is legal (which hasnt yet been decided by the constitutional court), would I be right in getting the impression that Catalonia is a hugely wealthy privileged area of Spain, a real hub for finance etc and they dont want their rich regions ways and economy , averaged down to a less desirable level, by being subjected to being ruled by the democracy of a 'whole' Spain , so want to vote for independence for their area to maintain their present standard of living and culture , meaning that with the high earning and productive bits gone, the rest of Spain would end up basically poorer as the Govt would have less income (from the taxed rich) to play with ?

Is this similar in principle to the talk you hear from London of wanting to be independant from the rest of the UK because the majority of them didnt want Brexit? Not about proper democracy at all, just about limited democracy ie within an area wanting to keep something that is particularly beneficial to itself?


A separation agreement can have adjustments to level the relative wealth. However I think the majority of Catalonians want independence for political and social reasons not economic, if that is true then they would accept the financial balancing.
_________________________
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell

When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. Socrates

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#1045065 - 3rd Oct 2017 5:32pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
snowhite Offline

Wiki Guide

Registered: 31st Jan 2014
Posts: 6595
Loc: Wirral
Nigel nails it on the head once more.


Edited by snowhite (3rd Oct 2017 5:38pm)

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#1045087 - 3rd Oct 2017 7:37pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
cools Offline
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Registered: 16th Aug 2013
Posts: 2154
Loc: Wirral
Here Here Nigel, I'd vote for him to be PM if only we could Snowy.

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#1045094 - 3rd Oct 2017 8:42pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
venice Offline

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Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 3088
Loc: Wirral
Thank you DD

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#1045134 - 4th Oct 2017 11:10am Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15116
Loc: Wirral

Well, I don't know if it's right or wrong. Prince Filip has had his say, the only worry is that once discontent gets a hold in a region, there are usually those with influence from outside, and we see what happened in the middle east. Considering Spain has a big migrant population, we don't know if the bad guys could get installed and wage war through Europe by getting a stronghold in Catalonia.
Just my thoughts, but we saw the same mass demonstrations in Tunisia, Egypt, Syria .
Maybe I'm getting a bit ahead of myself, but it is a situation that could explode if some so wished to make it that way. Either far right or far left.
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#1045136 - 4th Oct 2017 11:19am Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: cools]
snowhite Offline

Wiki Guide

Registered: 31st Jan 2014
Posts: 6595
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: cools
Here Here Nigel, I'd vote for him to be PM if only we could Snowy.
We only can wish Cools.

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#1045171 - 4th Oct 2017 3:30pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: granny]
lollipop Online   shifty
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Registered: 3rd Aug 2014
Posts: 1737
Loc: ireland.
He's my vote too!!

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#1045174 - 4th Oct 2017 3:35pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: lollipop]
snowhite Offline

Wiki Guide

Registered: 31st Jan 2014
Posts: 6595
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: lollipop
He's my vote too!!
thumbsup....Hope you are feeling better lollipop x

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#1045178 - 4th Oct 2017 4:08pm Re: Catalan Referendum [Re: snowhite]
lollipop Online   shifty
Forum Addict

Registered: 3rd Aug 2014
Posts: 1737
Loc: ireland.
Thankyou! Snowhite!!!!

Yes back in work next Monday, parents went back to Wirral on Sunday and iam healing well still a bit tender though!! All good! X

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