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#761074 - 25th Jan 2013 12:36pm The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters
Grandpa_George Offline
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Registered: 8th May 2012
Posts: 294
Loc: Wirral
Attitudes of the British people are hardening towards benefits and those claiming it.
Do Wiki members believe that benefits are too low and cause hardship or that they are too high and discourage work.


Edited by Mark (29th Jan 2013 8:35am)
Edit Reason: Topic Renamed

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#761076 - 25th Jan 2013 12:41pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
Pinzgauer
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Grandpa_George
Attitudes of the British people are hardening towards benefits and those claiming it.
Do Wiki members believe that benefits are too low and cause hardship or that they are too high and discourage work.


A can of worms await .... seeyu

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#761082 - 25th Jan 2013 12:48pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
delta6 Offline
Smartchild

Registered: 24th Apr 2009
Posts: 498
Loc: Moreton
the new universal credit system coming out in april is going to cause havoc.

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#761085 - 25th Jan 2013 12:58pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
Salmon Online   content

Forum Addict

Registered: 8th Oct 2011
Posts: 1796
Loc: Wallasey
I think benefits are too low for the genuine claimants but there are far too many who claim unjustly. I believe that it is the latter group which gets the headlines and spoils the claims of those really in need.It does appear too easy to make false claims and get away with it.I have no idea how we move the goalposts to allow needy folk to get help whilst discouraging those who claim unfairly.Sadly it is always the case that the "minority" spoil things for the rest.

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#761087 - 25th Jan 2013 12:59pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
j_demo Online   Know_it_all
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Registered: 4th Nov 2011
Posts: 1893
Loc: Wallasey/New Brighton
i think they're fair as they stand, it's setting boundaries for things like DLA is where the issues arise. if someone is entitled to DLA, then fine, but i know (of) many people who have nothing wrong with them, physically or mentally, and have somehow wangled onto DLA and get a car paid for fully and other such nicities when they neither need nor deserve it.

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#761092 - 25th Jan 2013 1:18pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
Shambo Offline
Wise One

Registered: 15th Jul 2008
Posts: 794
Loc: New Brighton
The name of this topic gives us a hint where you're wanting to go with this.

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#761095 - 25th Jan 2013 1:21pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Shambo]
Grandpa_George Offline
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Registered: 8th May 2012
Posts: 294
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: Shambo
The name of this topic gives us a hint where you're wanting to go with this.


Sorry should say "Benefit Scroungers?".

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#761099 - 25th Jan 2013 1:26pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
Grandpa_George Offline
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Registered: 8th May 2012
Posts: 294
Loc: Wirral
My opinion on this, is there are too many claimants sitting around on their fat arses, smoking their cigarettes, drinking their alcohol surrounded by cats and dogs, complaining they don't get enough benefits. These are the people who make the whole benefit system look a complete mess. Yes there are genuine people who need help with benefits but there are a lot more who work the system and drain whatever they can out of it without putting anything back in.

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#761101 - 25th Jan 2013 1:34pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
bert1 Offline

Wiki Veteran

Registered: 27th Nov 2008
Posts: 7948
Loc: tranmere
If anyone knows of a Benefit fraudster, why don't they do the decent thing and turn them in, or is it they don't have personal knowledge but rely on propaganda bandied about.
_________________________
God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.

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#761103 - 25th Jan 2013 1:42pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: j_demo]
Wench Offline

H4H County Volunteer
Wiki Veteran

Registered: 9th Aug 2008
Posts: 8616
Loc: Second Circle of Hell.
Originally Posted By: j_demo
...... somehow wangled onto DLA and get a car paid for fully.....


Just wanted to clear this statement up. They don't get a car paid for fully - if you need a car to help you get around, you have to have the high mobility component of DLA and you pay for the car out of that component.

This is the kind of thing that gets those of us who are disabled a bad name as people think we get everything handed to us on a plate. The likes of the Daily Fail, the Scum & the Grauniad seem to take great pleasure in denigrating the disabled & others on benefits. The knock on effect is that their readers then take it as gospel & in turn, they denigrate those on benefits too.

I will probably get well & truly flamed for this but, in for a penny as they say. The people who breed for benefits sake, have more children when they cannot afford the one(s) they have, those who are on drugs or are alcoholics should not get as much as they do. Children are not a means to more money or a right! I see so many friends who have a few children constantly moaning because of childcare fees, before and after school club fees, hobby clubs/classes, cost of shoes/clothes/ipads/mobiles/xcubewiibox games etc and how they can't afford to go out as they have to find a babysitter, pay them etc. TOUGH!! Nobody forced you to have kids! You chose to have children, so suck it up sweethearts!!

If anyone wants to moan about the genuinely disabled getting a few extras, then they are more than welcome to have my disability for a week, and the few extra £'s that comes with it. Rest assured - you wouldn't last 48hrs!

Just for the record, I paid into the "system" for 23yrs before my accident and did not put a claim in for the resulting disability for 8 months - I lived on my savings! Once I am partially fixed, I will go back to work & pay back into the system - no doubt paying more in than I've taken out of the pot.

Those who have never paid in should perhaps have a cap on what they get - just a thought.

Rant over smile

P.S. - I don't drink or smoke but I do have my dog. I got her many years ago when I was on upwards of £26k a year. She is the best physio going. If it wasn't for her, I'd have given up many many years ago.
_________________________
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Itís hard to be fit as a fiddle when youíre shaped like a cello!

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#761104 - 25th Jan 2013 1:43pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
granny Offline

Wiki Master

Registered: 29th Jun 2011
Posts: 15019
Loc: Wirral
Difficult to say, as those who are not on or have not ever received benefits, dont know what people are entitled to receive. Plus,nobody on benefits ever let you know either with regard to the overheads and their total income from all scources. So, I suppose we all make a good guess and generally speaking, tend to point the finger', which is understandable from those who don't know.



Other things are questionable in my opinion. Those who are on low income benefits, disability benefits and old age pensions are all (providing they meet criteria) able to foster children, without their benefits/pensions being affected. Looking at the report below taken from an article printed a couple of years ago , fostering appears to be a pretty lucrative business(unless I've been left behind how much a living wage is now) which has to be questioned for obvious reasons, even though, there are many who provide an exceptional service for those children.
There are always the ones who will abuse a system for their own ends! Although my comment is bound to upset some, because they read it as they wish to see it, not as it is written.


Foster care
Linda is a foster carer who looks after Billy, 5, and Andrew, 14. They both live with Linda and her family full time. Linda gets a weekly allowance and fee for each of the boys. As the two boys are different ages, with different demands, this is reflected in the allowances and fees.

For the care of Billy, she is entitled to an allowance of £113.46, which covers maintenance, his clothing and his pocket money. She also receives £151.36 as a weekly fee for Billy. For the care of Andrew she receives an allowance of £145.19 and a £189.21 weekly fee.

In total, Linda receives £600.22 per week for caring for the two boys
.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/edinburgh/2011/jan/17/edinburgh-foster-caring-pay-rates-myths


Edited by granny (25th Jan 2013 1:51pm)
_________________________
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle

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#761105 - 25th Jan 2013 1:55pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
bazzoh Offline

Addict

Registered: 25th Oct 2007
Posts: 254
Loc: wirral
i think its important to define a "scrounger"? there are those that have fallen on hard times and rightly receive help, and there are those who have no intention of working or even trying to work! i despise the second group!

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#761112 - 25th Jan 2013 2:14pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Wench]
venice Offline

Forum Master

Registered: 21st Jul 2011
Posts: 3005
Loc: Wirral
Agree with Salmons post, and the first para of Granny's .(her following paras are a whole new issue which deserve their own thread)
I think your first paragraph Granny sums up why I think the only way things could change , to stop the system being abused, is more of a Big Brother state. People claiming would have to be subject to far more personal invasive scrutiny - and that aint going to happen in these days of 'eweman rights' My mum was telling me that in her day , 'Parish benefits' were paid in the Welsh valleys, and they would come in and handle all your stuff and if you had any luxuries , you stood no chance of financial assistance. Dont think many of us would like those sort of days again , but certainly I for one would welcome more resources put into making sure the benefits went to the genuinely needy --and then the upside would be that there would be MORE money available for the right people then.
The main problem should be tackled first, and that is the abuse at the top - perpetrated , sorry, allowed, by the Govt in so much as they dont have a firm enough grip on the officialdom high up . Im talking about the ones who allow big companies to get away without paying their taxes via sneaky loopholes, the ones who wave through thousands of immigrants without the correct checks , and the rules that allow limited companies to go bankrupt and open up the next day in another name, leaving a trail of 'owed' people with ruined livelihoods who then are forced onto the benefits system etc etc etc.

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#761115 - 25th Jan 2013 2:23pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
24424m Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 31st May 2009
Posts: 118
Loc: Wirral
Originally Posted By: Grandpa_George
Yes there are genuine people who need help with benefits but there are a lot more who work the system and drain whatever they can out of it without putting anything back in.


Do you have the figures to back this statement up, or is it just what you would like to believe, in order to make sweeping generalizations?

I suggest you have a look at this link:

http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/index.php?page=fraud_error

So, the DWP's own statistics estimate that 2.1% of total benefit expenditure was overpaid due to fraud and error, and interestingly, 0.8% was actually underpaid due to fraud and error!

With respect, that hardly backs up your hypothesis, & as has been pointed out earlier in this thread, perhaps the title gives away your agenda. Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance?

The Chancellor has reasoned that the 50% tax rate is not justifiable because it is not feasible to collect it, as people find ways of avoiding their liability. Oh well Mr Osborne, that's alright then, turn a blind eye to your rich chums because it is a bit difficult to get them to pay their taxes, whilst at the same time demonizing the majority of legitimate benefits claimants by inferring they are in essence work-shy scroungers, who are therefore a reasonable target!

To me, benefit fraud is repugnant, as is tax avoidance / evasion, and yet whilst paying lip-service to the tax issue but little else, the Tories are happy to dismantle the benefits system in what is a naked ideological attack.

From society's perspective, telling people "we are all in this together", whilst depriving the poorest and most vulnerable of the means to adequate food warmth & shelter (i.e. the most basic requirements for living), will inevitably lead to social unrest, as when you have taken everything away from somebody, and then want even more, how on earth do you expect them to react?

I am not trying to agitate for disturbances, but this will surely be the inevitable consequence of an already unequal society being made even more so, and that is really going to cost a lot of money to address.

Rant over!




Edited by 24424m (25th Jan 2013 2:25pm)

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#761116 - 25th Jan 2013 2:25pm Re: The Benefit Cheats / Cheaters [Re: Grandpa_George]
casper Online   content
Forum Addict

Registered: 13th May 2012
Posts: 1426
Loc: wallasey
There should be different scales of benefit based on NI contributions, needless to say those that have never put in get the least out, unfortunately for the disabled the abusers have ruined the scheme for the genuine,Wench you defend disability payments quite rightly so, however you let yourself down by begrudging those that support children their rights, this is exactly what this odious government wants, blame all the ills of the economy on those least able to defend themselves, just like the Nazis did with the Jews the poor are the scapegoats, turn one against the other,god help us all if they are elected for another parliament, we will all feel the cold fingers of capitalism and conservatism choking the life out of us

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