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Re: mobile phone mast [Re: diggingdeeper] #662930
5th Feb 2012 10:50am
5th Feb 2012 10:50am
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by Xan_Asmodi
There is NO evidence linking mobile phones, mobile masts or any other personal communication to cancer, electro-hypersensitivity or any other rubbish non-diagnosis someone cares to apply to themselves. So there is the health angle covered
true for masts, it's not quite that cut and dried for phones.


Yes DD correct. I know sweet fanny adams about all this.....but what I do know is, that my next door neighbour in Suffolk, who was a Doctor in research at BT research centre Martlesham Heath, would not allow any of his family to use mobile phones for making telephone calls. That was from the health and saftey angle.


Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Re: mobile phone mast [Re: granny] #662983
5th Feb 2012 1:08pm
5th Feb 2012 1:08pm
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Xan_Asmodi Offline

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Originally Posted by granny
Yes DD correct. I know sweet fanny adams about all this.....but what I do know is, that my next door neighbour in Suffolk, who was a Doctor in research at BT research centre Martlesham Heath, would not allow any of his family to use mobile phones for making telephone calls. That was from the health and saftey angle.


In all fairness, that's an anecdote and nothing more. Do you mean H&S as in not crossing the road whilst talking, or was the Dr. scared of low powered radio waves.

If there's a quality, peer reviewed scientific paper that says mobile phones or their masts cause harm then that needs to be taken into account. But all I see are anecdotes and paranoia which aren't evidence enough to prove harm is being caused.

Last edited by Xan_Asmodi; 5th Feb 2012 1:09pm.
Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #662990
5th Feb 2012 1:45pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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How about the World Health Organisation?

CLICKY


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663001
5th Feb 2012 2:06pm
5th Feb 2012 2:06pm
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OH NO!
So thats a fag in one hand, a mobile in the other whilst sucking up all the diesel fumes from cars and buses.

Thats me doomed then!

Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663002
5th Feb 2012 2:06pm
5th Feb 2012 2:06pm
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Two references do not make a thorough study or summation of the evidence.

The first reference is, as far as I can tell this is the complete thing:

Quote
Issue Date: 1992
Status : Archived
On page(s): 1
E-ISBN: 0-7381-3030-3
Cited by : 22
INSPEC Accession Number: 4193844
Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/IEEESTD.1992.101091
Persistent Link: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/servlet/opac?punumber=2917 More
Year: 1992
Sponsored by: IEEE Electromagnetic Compatibility Society
Related Information: Superseded by IEEE Std C95.1, 1999 Edition


That one is TWO DECADES old

The second refernce is certainly interesting, I'll have to read and digest it, but they're referencing what I believe to be methodologically flawed studies. Plus the fact that it's FOURTEEN YEARS OLD.

The WHO is an authoritative on many things, but in this case at least their evidence search is quite poor. In uni I try not to use any source older than five years, the fresher the better.

Last edited by Xan_Asmodi; 5th Feb 2012 2:07pm.
Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663008
5th Feb 2012 2:22pm
5th Feb 2012 2:22pm
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BandyCoot Offline

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On spectrum analysers mobile phones show quite a big energy spike. Having seen them and knowing that a mobile phone works on micro-wave frequencies, and also bearing in mind that micro-waves are used to cook steak and kidney pies I only use mine in dire emergencies, or get the missus to use hers. My motto is that anything which can cook a steak and kidney pie has no business longside my ear hole. The jury is still out on how dangerous they are. Masts radiate as well, as do most electrical appliances so it might just be the luck of the draw.


Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663015
5th Feb 2012 2:35pm
5th Feb 2012 2:35pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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That is why WHO are continuing to examine the issue, the previous evidence is inconclusive (ie "not cut and dried", as I stated above).

It is generally expected that as people use phones over a longer period of time and are using them for extended periods, evidence will show there is a significant risk.

The brain can take an amazing amount of damage without showing symptoms, but there are limits (and unfortunate flukes). Virtually all other electromagnetic radiation studies outside of mobile phones have come up with recommended field strengths weaker than those that mobile phones are capable of, the problem is caused mainly by proximity.

The field strengths allowed by mobile masts in areas where people may be present, are lower than those that mobile phones can produce. The phones can be more dangerous than the masts.

As people are living longer and longer, the cumulative effect of minor damages to the brain are more apparent. If your life expectancy is 60, then the effect of mobile phones may be negligible, if your life expectancy is 90 then the effects may become more apparent - what's the point of living longer if part of your extended life is cabbaged. These are further issues that need to be analysed and there are no easy ways of conclusively pre-empting the outcome, previous research does give some indicators though.

On another day, I might have dug up some decent references, but I'm not well.


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663021
5th Feb 2012 2:42pm
5th Feb 2012 2:42pm
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It's surprising what radiating electrical gear can do, that's why security sensitive installations are Tempested to stop the stuff radiating out and getting intercepted. I sometimes wonder whether all this autism and related conditions are to do with the amount of magnetic fields we have around now, something must explain the increase in a lot of these conditions. Amazing what you think about when there's nowt on the box.


Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
Re: mobile phone mast [Re: diggingdeeper] #663026
5th Feb 2012 2:49pm
5th Feb 2012 2:49pm
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
That is why WHO are continuing to examine the issue, the previous evidence is inconclusive (ie "not cut and dried", as I stated above).

It is generally expected that as people use phones over a longer period of time and are using them for extended periods, evidence will show there is a significant risk.

The brain can take an amazing amount of damage without showing symptoms, but there are limits (and unfortunate flukes). Virtually all other electromagnetic radiation studies outside of mobile phones have come up with recommended field strengths weaker than those that mobile phones are capable of, the problem is caused mainly by proximity.

The field strengths allowed by mobile masts in areas where people may be present, are lower than those that mobile phones can produce. The phones can be more dangerous than the masts.

As people are living longer and longer, the cumulative effect of minor damages to the brain are more apparent. If your life expectancy is 60, then the effect of mobile phones may be negligible, if your life expectancy is 90 then the effects may become more apparent - what's the point of living longer if part of your extended life is cabbaged. These are further issues that need to be analysed and there are no easy ways of conclusively pre-empting the outcome, previous research does give some indicators though.

On another day, I might have dug up some decent references, but I'm not well.


I don't advocate indiscretion over caution, but my original point was why has the mast been knocked back?

As for mobiles using microwaves to transmit and receive, and their similarities to microwave ovens. microwave ovens operate at 600+ watts, mobiles at about 3 watts. There's a huge disparity between the strengths at face value, let alone when you take into account the inverse square law means exposure is less than 100 watts for most, if not all of the population

Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663035
5th Feb 2012 2:58pm
5th Feb 2012 2:58pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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In a microwave, the field is contained in a Faraday Cage, there is extremely low leakage (less than the output of a mobile phone) and you generally don't plant it next to you head.

When you compare distances of say 30cms to 5mm, that is a ratio of 60 linear, or 3600 square law!


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663038
5th Feb 2012 3:04pm
5th Feb 2012 3:04pm
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BandyCoot Offline

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I used to know of a RAF copper who thought radiation wouldn't have any effect on him too. Anyway, he cooked his gonads and aint going to be a dad any time soon. I wouldn't like to live under a mast and I still won't put a phone alongside my nut unless it's a total emergency and I don't know the square root of feck all, it's my choice.
oldman


Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
Re: mobile phone mast [Re: diggingdeeper] #663086
5th Feb 2012 4:05pm
5th Feb 2012 4:05pm
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Xan_Asmodi Offline

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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
In a microwave, the field is contained in a Faraday Cage, there is extremely low leakage (less than the output of a mobile phone) and you generally don't plant it next to you head.

When you compare distances of say 30cms to 5mm, that is a ratio of 60 linear, or 3600 square law!


that was part of my point which perhaps I wasn't clear about. microwave ovens are shielded yes, but drawing a comparison on such disparate powers and uses is flawed from the get go.

As for autism, that's a completely different can of worms

Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663126
5th Feb 2012 4:50pm
5th Feb 2012 4:50pm
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North West
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JLowe Offline
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We all need to stop communicating as we'll all get cancer.

Also, stop crossing the road, as you might get run over.

I've just put an offer in on a cave. Can't wait to move in.

Re: mobile phone mast [Re: JLowe] #663128
5th Feb 2012 4:52pm
5th Feb 2012 4:52pm
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Originally Posted by JLowe
We all need to stop communicating as we'll all get cancer.

Also, stop crossing the road, as you might get run over.

I've just put an offer in on a cave. Can't wait to move in.


What's the area like? May join you.

Re: mobile phone mast [Re: dave_h] #663134
5th Feb 2012 4:59pm
5th Feb 2012 4:59pm
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BandyCoot Offline

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Pardon me for having an opinion. Promise I won't do it again.
FFS



Birkenhead........ God's own Room 101.
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