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Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: diggingdeeper] #300315
13th Mar 2009 6:07pm
13th Mar 2009 6:07pm
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bernie66 Offline
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there is definately something worth more poking around at. It could obviously be space in between huge lumps of rubble but it might not be. I think I will spend some time on the internet trying to get as much info as possible about the quarry to try to work out what I might be looking for. I could do with an exact GPS location of the split in the line to see if it compares with the coordinates I have for the shed structure- I think it is too far to the right .

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Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: diggingdeeper] #300354
13th Mar 2009 10:57pm
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chriskay Offline OP
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Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
I didn't realise the line carried on past the great cutting and then divides in two, is that a turnstile or whatever you call it for trains/trams/trolleys?


Yes, that looks like a turntable.


Carpe diem.
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: chriskay] #300413
14th Mar 2009 4:35pm
14th Mar 2009 4:35pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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I was in the woods for nearly two hours taking pictures and GPS readings, unfortunately, the GPS readings are not accurate enough to make sense (I measured a resolution of about 30yds). Anyway, I am pretty sure I know where the turntable was and that is just a few yards south of the rod that started this topic.

The Apex most certainly isn't part of a larger structure.

Bernie's concrete block is on the corner immediately south of the entrance to the great cutting, the northern corner has other material, these might just be scrapings from some bulldozing.

I understand how the quarry was formed, basically they didn't dig down - they dug sideways - firstly along the great cutting then north and south from the turntable position. I strogly suspect they went south first and gave up on this part then headed north - all of this going HORIZONTAL the tram lins were at the bottom of the pits and level with the entrance to the great cutting.

The western wall of the "North of turntable" quarry is very clear to see, you can see the rock, the eastern wall is presumably in the ramp up to the Mount Road wall, which is starting to get too brambley to penetrate and is builtup with soil.

Looking at the growth - I would say the pit to the south of the turntable was closed and filled in along time before the pit to the North, because everything to the north is clear to see.

Here is a map showing the great cutting and the Northern Pit .. the great cutting DEFINATELY goes straight through the middle of the opening. You can see the western line of the pit quite clearly.

Attached Files
StoretonGreatCutting.jpg (232 downloads)
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: diggingdeeper] #300424
14th Mar 2009 6:13pm
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chriskay Offline OP
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Thanks for that report. I'm sure your analysis of the site is correct. The line was pretty well level from the turntable to the Mount Rd. tunnel, with a variation of no more than about 10 feet. After that, it descended to the Stone Quay quite rapidly, with a gradient of up to 1 in 20. The only motive power used was Shire horses; they would haul laden wagons from the quarry to the eastern end of the Mount Rd. tunnel, from where gravity would take over. The horses would haul the empty wagons back to the quarry.


Carpe diem.
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: chriskay] #300438
14th Mar 2009 7:28pm
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bernie66 Offline
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its fascinating to try to imagine it all those years ago.

Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: bernie66] #300543
14th Mar 2009 9:50pm
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Who else remembers the large deep section of the storton quarry that was on the other side of mount road been filled in. Seem to remember it was during the 1960s or perhaps the early 70s


Ships that pass in the night, seldom seen and soon forgoten
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: jimbob] #300560
14th Mar 2009 10:00pm
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Originally Posted by jimbob
Who else remembers the large deep section of the storton quarry that was on the other side of mount road been filled in. Seem to remember it was during the 1960s or perhaps the early 70s


I do, it was probably 70s. it was bought as an investment for future building land. I am not sure but it may have been free or cheap tipping of certain materials till the quarry had been filled in. I remember as they got near to the top only soil could be tipped. As far as i know, so many years have to pass for the land to settle before building can commence.


God help us,
Come yourself,
Don't send Jesus,
This is no place for children.


Bertieone.
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: bert1] #300655
14th Mar 2009 11:44pm
14th Mar 2009 11:44pm
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chriskay Offline OP
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Yes, I remember it well, back in the 1940's/50's. It had water in the bottom as I remember. It was filled in in the late '60's with the spoil from the Wallasey tunnel. I don't know how long it has to be left before it can be built on, but it looks like a prime site (well, maybe not at present). However, the bit of land at the East end of the Mount Rd. tunnel has been filled in & built on.


Carpe diem.
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: chriskay] #300715
15th Mar 2009 12:38pm
15th Mar 2009 12:38pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Right, I will try and do a walkthrough from the photographs I took ....

Attached Files
StoretonQuarry-S8003138s.JPG (185 downloads)
Map of woods with Mount Rd on right, the top clearing also has a seat now.
StoretonQuarry-S8003140s.JPG (185 downloads)
Starting at the Mount Road entrance
StoretonQuarry-S8003141s.JPG (185 downloads)
Looking South, all this brushwood area is the quarry pit and some of the trees on the left(east) to the right the tree line is rouhly the Quarry's Western Wall
StoretonQuarry-S8003143s.JPG (185 downloads)
Moving southward a bit and you can clearly see the Western wall
StoretonQuarry-S8003144s.JPG (188 downloads)
A bit further south the western wall continuing

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: diggingdeeper] #300718
15th Mar 2009 12:54pm
15th Mar 2009 12:54pm
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Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Attached Files
StoretonQuarry-S8003145s.JPG (184 downloads)
Carrying on southward and the western wall continues...
StoretonQuarry-S8003146s.JPG (186 downloads)
Turning round and looking northward over the quarry we have just come down.
StoretonQuarry-S8003147s.JPG (181 downloads)
And looking Northeast to the eastern wall
StoretonQuarry-S8003149s.JPG (186 downloads)
Looking West down the Great Cutting, probably standing roughly on the Western edge of the Quarry
StoretonQuarry-S8003151s.JPG (182 downloads)
Looking westward down the great cutting from what would be the eastern edge of the tram turntable area
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: diggingdeeper] #300722
15th Mar 2009 1:14pm
15th Mar 2009 1:14pm
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Birkenhead
diggingdeeper Offline

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Attached Files
StoretonQuarry-S8003155s.JPG (177 downloads)
Looking eastward at the eastern edge of the quarry level with the tram turntable area, very difficult to get through, this is the Mount Road Wall.
StoretonQuarry-S8003156s.JPG (177 downloads)
Looking eastward down the great cutting from where it cross the "middle" path (out of the three north-south paths on the eastern side of woods.
StoretonQuarry-S8003157s.JPG (177 downloads)
Looking southward from where the great cutting crosses the "middle" path (out of the three north-south paths on the eastern side of woods.
StoretonQuarry-S8003158s.JPG (178 downloads)
Looking westward down the great cutting from where it cross the "middle" path (out of the three north-south paths on the eastern side of woods. You can see the next path followed by the clearing.
StoretonQuarry-S8003159s.JPG (178 downloads)
Looking northward from where the great cutting crosses the "middle" path (out of the three north-south paths on the eastern side of woods.
StoretonQuarry-S8003162s.JPG (179 downloads)
Looking westward back along the great cutting from where it cross the path nearest the clearing.
StoretonQuarry-S8003164s.JPG (177 downloads)
Looking eastward down the great cutting from where it crosses path nearest the clearing - and looking through the clearing.
StoretonQuarry-S8003168s.JPG (180 downloads)
Looking eastward back along the great cutting from the western edge of clearing.
StoretonQuarry-S8003166s.JPG (181 downloads)
Looking westward at the western edge of the clearing down the great cutting, there is a big drop the other side of this brushwood into the exposed cutting.
StoretonQuarry-S8003173s.JPG (180 downloads)
Looking eastward up the expose great cutting from roughly where the tram lines are.
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: diggingdeeper] #300729
15th Mar 2009 2:16pm
15th Mar 2009 2:16pm
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shropshire
chriskay Offline OP
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A nice series; thanks. Now, from the point where you took the last pic., the line ran level into the quarry, so if we were able to figure out how much higher the Western edge of the quarry is, we'd know the depth. Any surveyors on here?


Carpe diem.
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: chriskay] #300731
15th Mar 2009 2:36pm
15th Mar 2009 2:36pm
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diggingdeeper Offline

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Highest reading on GPS was 83 yds and lowest was 65 yds, but again resolution of GPS was poor and only had 6 satellites up, need around 10 to get reasonable accuracy on height.

The 18 yds above sounds about right, I can't imagine a narrowish cutting with a depth of more than 54 ft, definately a hard-hat zone!

@Chris Are your 1:10 and 1:20 figures quotes for this quarry or normal practice?

I could string it to find out but too much risk of decapitating dogs/kids/people.

Have we got BMs on maps?


The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: diggingdeeper] #300743
15th Mar 2009 3:21pm
15th Mar 2009 3:21pm
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chriskay Offline OP
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Your GPS figures are in the ballpark with those I've just got on Google Earth, (but I don't know how accurate they are). I get: Western edge = 237ft. & preserved rails point = 200ft. However, I've just found some info. in the book about the Mersey Tunnel (Queensway). This was published in 1934 to commemorate the opening & contains much technical detail. I'll paraphrase the relevant bit.
"Filling of Storeton quarry...over 500 yards long & varying in depth from 25 to 80ft." (They dumped 453,000 tons there).
My thoughts now are: the line came through the cutting to the turntable & then lines radiated from there as shown on the drawing I posted earlier. All this essentially on the level. Then the quarry, apart from where the tracks were, was dug deeper & the stone lifted to track level by crane. Cranes are shown on the drawing, although these would have been needed anyway just to lift from track level onto the wagons. This could account for the
"25 to 80ft." So; maybe the turntable was only 25ft. below the rim & that would also have been the maximum depth of the Great Cutting.
My previous quoted 1:20 gradient is from "The Storeton Tramway" book. I didn't say a 1:10 gradient, but noted that the total height variation from turntable to Mount Rd. tunnel was no more than 10ft. This also from figures in the book.
Can't find a map of the area with BM's; don't think there'd be any in the middle of the woods anyway.

Cheers, Chris.


Carpe diem.
Re: Storeton Tramway Relic [Re: chriskay] #300753
15th Mar 2009 4:44pm
15th Mar 2009 4:44pm
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My eye popped out my head when I read 500 yds, but that quarry map above was 1870, quarry carried on northward after that and of course they must be including the south quarry as well.

Here is 1918 map which gives quarry about 500 yds end of north to end of south minus a bit for the middle.

I notice the road entrance to the quarry from the north, I thought I noticed another gap in the west wall, this will be another cutting.

The two huts are on the 1913 map.

Attached Files
MapStoretonQuarry1913.jpg (170 downloads)
Map of Storeton Quarry 1913

The further you are down the pay scale, the more 'essential' you are when the s--- hits the fan... Sue Farbysmith 2020

Insults are engendered from vulgar minds, like toadstools from a dunghill - Charles Caleb Colton

We don't do charity in Germany, We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities - Henning Wehn
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