Forums Forums Wirral History : Chasing the Past Wirral History Stanlow Abbey

Great pics Kylix, thanks for sharing :-)

So many unanswered questions! Where is the original latin document that the poem was translated from?
How did F. G. Slater (translater - Onetime vicar of Ince) get a copy of it?
How can we see it now?
I have been interested in this topic since at least 1989 when I first found a copy of the English version in a local Wirral history book (not sure which one).

For the poem, see references at the bottom of this link. No 8, it might help.

http://rcchep.co.uk/stbernards_history.php

They moved at some point to Whalley Abbey in Lancashire.

https://archive.org/stream/historyoforigina00whituoft#page/n9/mode/2up/search/stanlaw

Plenty of mentions of Stanlaw here. See the orange things at the bottom.

Thanks Granny. Will investigate that link further and report back if anyone's interested.

Techgran, you could well find further information at Cheshire archives relating to Rev.F G Slater .

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/a7771ba4-22f4-4c42-ba15-cb52d276c0a9

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/b37b1189-8960-4831-a0db-b70b16a6f0af

and this. Masses of information and too much to take in at once. There could be possible clues to who wrote the poem or when but I don't see anything mentioned anywhere specifically about a poem. Of course any possessions could have eventually gone to Lichfield. One monk went to Oxford. Maybe following Rev. F G Slater could take you on a tour where he may have found it.
Good luck, and I hope you do come back with some more information. That would be good for everyone.

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/lancs/vol2/pp131-139#anchorn43

Thanks Granny for all your efforts. This search is becoming an obsession. I got a copy of F.G.Slater's 'Cheshire Parish....Ince' from the library but of the poem not a mention!
I have downloaded Ormerod and will go through it again but so far no luck. Have also scanned thro' relevant bits of Whitaker; same result. Have now involved a friend in the search so here's hoping. Will keep you posted.

Just one thing I wonder about is the rhyming of the poem, considering the supposed date as I'm not sure what language the Abbey's monks and Abbots would have used.

It was translated from Latin which is why I'm so keen to see the original. If you translate into English and make it rhyme then you have to alter the original somewhat.

That's what I would have thought. At the same time, was it Latin ? We know the Bible was written in Latin, but according to this, there was a bit of a muddle going on with language and text. French, Anglo Saxon, Germanic,

http://www.thehistoryofenglish.com/history_middle.html

No. Definitely Latin. In one of the texts I read (I've read so many!) it said F.G.Slater translated it from the Latin. A lot of the text in Ormerod and Whitaker is all in Latin.

There were also quite a few English Lyrics/verses handwritten at Stanlow Abbey which are generally thought to may be translations of earlier unknown documents. So middle English and Latin were used there.

Documents from Stanlow Abbey seem to be spread around (British Library, Lambeth Palace Library) but the move to Whalley Abbey has probably muddied the source/location for many others.

So pleased you have joined us DD. I'm getting more and more confused.
When they went to Whalley Abbey, there was an old Abbott Robert de Haworth (who had been there for about 25yrs) and 5 monks left at Stanlaw. It later became a grange to Whalley Abbey until the reformation

Originally, Stanlaw Abbey had been 'colonised' from Combermere Abbey .Combermere being the mother Abbey to Stanlaw and Whalley Abbey's.

From the end of the 13th century, the monks were transferred
So, the poem could have been written anytime up to 1535.

Then Combermere was sold by the Cotton family , who had owned the Abbey and estate since the Dissolution, in 1919. It says almost all the archives were dispersed. The time Rev.F.G Slater was writing his books etc.

http://www.combermere-restoration.co.uk/further-research/

Rev. Slater also wrote a manuscript/chants book. Maybe this is when the poem turned up, from the records of Combermere.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/a7771ba4-22f4-4c42-ba15-cb52d276c0a9

When reading this below, the poem seems to take on the very essence of the secluded, remote life they must have lead. It really is quite beautiful and passionate.


https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1011117

The Cistercians - or "white monks", on account of their undyed habits - led a harsher life than earlier monastic orders, believing in the virtue of a life of austerity, prayer and manual labour. Seeking seclusion, they founded their houses in wild and remote areas where they undertook major land improvement projects. Their communities were often very large and included many lay brethren who acted as ploughmen, dairymen, shepherds, carpenters and masons. The Cistercians' skills as farmers eventually made the order one of the richest and most influential. They were especially successful in the rural north of England where they concentrated on sheep farming. The Cistercians made a major contribution to many facets of medieval life and all of their monasteries which exhibit significant surviving archaeological remains are worthy of protection.

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/history/research/english-monastic-archives


Monastic Database.

Look under 'Browse by House' & Whalley and Stanlaw.