The UK is getting far too keen about hanging on to data. Look at the DNA database, for example. Putting criminals on to it is one thing, but people who aren't convicted should be able to have their records removed - and the suggestion that I read that this can't be done is absolute bull.
Im all for a mass DNA database to made available to the police and prosecution service; Again, it "may" be open to abuse, although it would be hard to actually find a way to abuse it.
You don't think the insurance companies would like to review the DNA of the people whom they insure, to check for any susceptibility to disease, for example? How do you fancy becoming all but uninsureable due to a genetic defect?
However, there are so many cases, where the police have DNA evidence to relate to the crime, but no match on the database.
Again, I can see the benefits, but I don't think they outweigh the negatives.
Only a few weeks ago on ITV Nightwatch, it showed the story of how a man raped multiple women in the late 80's and early 90's, and was never found. The police had DNA evidence on him, but were never able to match it against the database. Then he was arrested last year for something stupid, and they took his DNA. The DNA was matched to the man wanted for the rapes and he was quickly arrested and charged for some of the rapes. 20 years on, he had become a respectable businessman, with a family, and he was now in his 40's, yet thanks to DNA, his dark history was finally uncovered.
Right. And if DNA testing becomes the holy grail of all evidence, just plug in the DNA and it tells you who to arrest, how do you protect against the faulty evidence? Either a corrupted database (believe me, it happens!) or worse yet, a corrupted database operator or scientist. Do you remember the story of a man called Stefan Kiszko?
If someone committed a serious crime against someone I know, and the police had vital DNA evidence, but no match on the database, I would be campaigning for them to start compiling a database of everyones DNA.
And were I in those circumstances, I would hope that I was still able to see the wider picture, and so would NOT do so, just because it happened to someone I know. And if it were me on the receiving end, I *definitely* wouldn't want it to happen. Go down in history as the person (indirectly) responsible for the first national DNA database? No, thanks all the same.
As I always say, if we have nothing to hide, we have nothing to fear.
And as I always say when someone parrots that old line, I admire your optimism. I only wish I could share it. I fear a lot of things when it comes to "infallible" databases, but then I've spent half a working lifetime seeing the sort of garbage that infests databases.
The fact that ANPR has assisted the police to removed 300+ criminals off the streets of Merseyside in just 24 hours, demonstrates to me, that use of databases for fighting crime, is far more important than the slight (albeit very real) risk of misuse and abuse of that database.
But remember, that ANPR database wasn't solely responsible for removing the 300 criminals. How many were arrested by simply knocking on their doors, for example?
Yes, it does frighten most people; but not half as much as the ... who commit crimes of all kinds, frighten people. Id rather be watched by CCTV for instance, than feel completely alone on a night out in a big city with allsorts of opportunities then presented to criminals. CCTV does act as both a deterrent and crime solving tool, there is no getting away from that fact. Some crimes can never be deterred or caught by CCTV, but these are few and far between when there is a CCTV camera present.
CCTV is a somewhat different argument, unless you have any evidence to suggest that the data from CCTV is all being stored long-term or permanently.
Huh? So you feel any organisation, who by law you have to give you're details to, should be able to sell them details on to any 3rd party that wants them, so long as it is making money, but you have less support for a crime fighting database such as a national DNA database??
No, and I didn't say that. Come on, Matt, you're not that stupid. Comparing two evils doesn't mean that I'm automatically in favour of the lesser one. The DVLA selling on details should be illegal. Is that clear enough for you? It's precisely because I think that almost any organisation will, sooner or later, find a means to sell on such databases **that I'm against the data being collected in the first place**, unless there's an overriding public need for it - and I don't believe that's the case for a national DNA database.
I understand what you are trying to say here, but honestly, crime is becoming so rife and the crimes themselves are becoming so bad in the US, that we are now having to resort to these measures... partly because we are part of the shitty EU and criminals have more rights than anyone in the EU and partly because our prison service are at breaking point and criminals do not fear the overstretched police forces.
But if the databases are as effective in solving crimes as you suggest, surely that's going to push the UK's prisons *past* breaking point? I'm just puzzled here, I don't understand your logic.
Anything that helps to fight crime, im all for.
OK, that's your view. I'm not willing to give law enforcement quite such a blank cheque as you are - especially not with the amount of their work that seems to be outsourced these days. How long do you think it would take before dossers like Group4 got access to the various databases - just for purely administrative reasons, you understand, so they could find out what category of prisoners they were transporting?
Any other type of database, I have to think long and hard before I can make a decision on whether I like it or not. Crime is a MASSIVE issue in the UK right now, and the ANPR system is contantly proving its worth to the people affected by crime, and whilst it does that, I don't see how anyone can argue with its use.
Well, I'd argue with it, but I don't pretend to speak for anyone other than myself. Why am I interested in what goes on in the UK? Simple - maybe one day, if the house prices regain some degree of reality, we might like to come back. The only reason I'm in the USA is that the UK wouldn't let my wife (an only child) bring her physically-dependent mother with her had she been the one to emigrate.
There are other databases of course, which should be argued with, other databases which should be more locked down and less suceptible to abuse, but yesterday, 300 criminals were taken off the streets as a bonus of using the database and that is a good thing. 250+ of them will probably be back on the streets today, thanks to our entire justice system being stretched to the limit and the government enforcing stupid rules on the CPS, but that is another story altogether!!
Then if the results are such (and I take your word for it), I'm even more convinced that the negatives outweigh the benefits.
Brian.