In the 50s and 60s I can remember political and religious speakers at the Birkenhead Park entrance on a Sunday, what happened to them, were they banned or did they just fade away?. This is something I haven't thought about in years, reading the book " Idle Hands Clenched Fists" this weekend reminded me of it.

There is a plaque at Egremont Ferry too for 'Speakers Corner' I too would be interested in learning why the tradition died out.

PS Also added that book to my 'to be read' list. Cheers.

Can't give anything definite on Birkenhead Park, but 'idle hands ,clenched fists' is no doubt referring to 'communism'. The speakers corner at Liverpool Pier Head, which was at that time not endowed with such a classy name. In the 60's it was commonly known as the 'soap box at the Pier Head' most generally used for 'spouting on behalf of the Communist Party' and all the little 6th Form school girls from Blackburn House Institute for Girls, would trip down there in their lunchtime or after school, thinking they were being pro-active in the cause.

Eventually they grew up, and left all of that activist nonsense behind, each becoming very successful in their own way.

One of the main speakers also became very successful in his own way . Left it all behind......as they do. He could eventually afford Calvin Klein ,instead of none at all !!! ( I just happen to know far too many secrets, and names)

So, quite possibly as there was a period of trend towards this communist ideology, it may have been the same at Birkenhead as there was a strong workforce at Cammell Laird, but admittedly I know little of any history there at that time.

Maybe wrong but I thought Liverpool was one of only a few 'speakers corner's' left in UK although I have not found anything to clarify that. Most mention about it being removed in 1990's

This gives a bit of info but not much.

http://www.speakerscornertrust.org/library/about-free-speech/other-speakers-corners-in-the-uk/

Idle hands, clenched fists has nothing to do with communism and the communism you refer to was probably more along the lines of socialism - even if it was to the extreme end of the spectrum when being spouted at the box. The title of the book, i believe, was in reference to the altercations and riots of the early 80's and was a direct result of the extreme frustrations & anger of feeling helpless and out of work. Not that i agreed with the riots, im just explaining the book.

Idle Hands, Clenched Fists is about the troubles in Birkenhead in 1932, not the 1980s.

I think you will find it is about both the 1930's and 1980's, the first chapter is called "History Repeats Itself" and it was written in 1987.

Locomotive didn't say it was mentioned in the book, he only said that it had reminded him of it.

I believe you are correct diggin' my post has a typo, It should have read 30s & 80s. I find it hard to read and one finger type on the small screen of my phone lol.

Where you there Geemeister, when Communism and Marxism where prevalent in the city ? Please don't assume what 'probably' was as opposed to what 'really' was.
Here is one little quote from the socialist party.org.uk, just to give an idea of who was around at the time.

The Liverpool Labour Party was under the iron grip of the 'Braddock machine'. Bessie Braddock was elected the MP for Exchange in 1945 while John Braddock became the leader of the Labour group on the council in 1948. Former Communist Party members, they both moved far to the right during the boom years, assembling a ruthless apparatus around themselves in the Labour Party. Membership was deliberately kept small; workers applying to join were told that they could not become members because the party was 'full up'. Simon Fraser, the Liverpool Trades Council and Labour Party's secretary at that time, has conceded that 'the organisation was poor and intentionally kept poor to keep out the "wrong sort of candidate".
Walton Labour Party remained a stronghold for the forces of Marxism in the late 1950s. In 1959, George McCartney, a supporter of Socialist Fight, the forerunner of Militant, was selected as Labour's Prospective Parliamentary Candidate for Walton. In this battle he easily defeated Woodrow Wyatt, then a supporter of Tribune but now a rabid right winger. Unfortunately, the 1959 general election, against all expectations, was a victory for the Tories. Despite a tremendous campaign, Labour failed to win Walton.

Among those who joined Walton Labour Party in 1957, thereby coming into contact with the ideas of Marxism, was Keith Dickenson, one of the five Militant Editorial Board members expelled from the Labour Party in 1983. He recalls how even in the difficult period of the 1950s, the Marxists on Merseyside say youth as the key to the future transformation of the labour movement:

I've never understood why people use the term Socialism and Marxism as political entities. There is Capitalism and Communism, both Marxism and Socialism are predictions of naturally occurring paths from Capitalism to Communism, they cannot be ideals or beliefs to promote themselves by their own definition.

Then the old nugget that most "Communist" countries are less communist than most capitalist countries.

While most people were extremely loyal to our country through both world wars, immediately (or even instantly) after the wars was the realisation of what dictatorships had done to them.

Our political system is based on dictatorship, we elect a government or council in, then we have no control over them even when they do the opposite of what they had promised - they are only accountable unto themselves (think Lyndale School or Lisbon Treaty).

Assumptions are always made when being guided by someone else's writing. Just as you made assumptions relating to the title of the book and communism. Nothing in your passage screams communism as such, though it does refer to former communist party members. As I said it was probably extreme socialism. Please don't take offence when it is simply a case of airing on the side of caution for any statement made. After all, just because some people might have had the mindset to which you infer that doesn't mean everyone using the soapbox were of the same mind. Speakers corners have also been used in the past by 'bible bashers'. I love the way you are telling me what not to assume, are you really sure that all the people you referred to of growing up and each becoming very successful in their own way? Thats a big assumption. Please get off your soapbox.

Just as a matter of interest, I do know all of those people were/are very successful. One of them was my sister, and all her friends, who are all very successful. So put that in your pipe and smoke it !!Thank you.

So now you advocate smoking?? I too know people and they most certainly did not succeed in life..therefore I do not concede touché. Shall I pick up your toy for you? lol.

...but were your friends sagging school to sit, listen and be influenced by the Communist Activist speakers at the Pier Head ? That was what I started about, young people being influenced. So enough, go and argue with someone else.
Speakers Corners are not needed now anyway, they plonk their backsides in the middle of any street in London, so I believe from much media coverage !

Just to go slightly off topic. In 1970 - and maybe later - there was a Communist councillor on Birkenhead Council, representing Rock Ferry. I can't remember his full name, but I think his first name was Colin. Maybe someone remembers him?

One evening, the National Front arranged a public meeting in the heart of Rock Ferry (I think it was in a school hall or church hall ) obviously hoping to provoke trouble. But it was a damp squib. About three people turned up at the Front meeting and the Red hordes of Rock Ferry stayed home watching Corrie.

As for the political debate, I agree with diggingdeeper. As the old saying goes ... Capitalism is man exploiting man; Communism is vice-versa.

Modern social media is the 21st century version of the soap box. I'm glad i live in a society where we have the right to remonstrate and protest. If our forefathers (not being sexist but don't know a non masculine word of the same meaning) hadn't stood up and been counted, including standing on soap boxes, we would still have slavery, children up chimneys and women without the vote etc. Power to the people.

Referring back to the O.P somebody must know more about the use of the Birkenhead Park Grand Entrance for use of rallies?

I have been to rallies there but did not realise there was any historical relevance.

Only just!!! What with the Gagging Order and the over zealous use of Dispersal Notices being used recently in Liverpool.

.....and kettling! We still need to protect our democratic rights at every opportunity or lose it. Get to the ballot box.

Try forebears.

The book "Idle Hands, Clenched Fist" by Stephen F Kelly, is written about the "Means Test Riots" in Birkenhead in 1932, in which a lot of people ended up in hospital (police as well) all the marches set off from the Park entrance, one march in particular involved 15,000 men, mainly unemployed, marching from the Park entrance preceded by a band and banners, when the head of the march reached the PAC (Public Assistance Committee) office in Hamilton Street the last of the marchers was just leaving the park,(there were already 3,000 people at the PAC office) so that's the full length of Conway St. taken up by marching men, something to be seen. The police were breaking up the meetings at the park and were met with fierce resistance by the marchers, the Queens pub was wrecked and the Garage on the corner(now Ableworld was smashed up, the park railings were broken off and used as weapons against the police. The riots spread all round, shops in Grange road and Price St. were smashed and looted. which gave the police the excuse to force their way into peoples houses and beat everybody up,regardless of whether they were involved or not. There were also marches to Councillors houses (that would liven them up a bit).
Police were imported from Birmingham (500), Liverpool (350) and Chester. These riots and marches carried on for over a week, eventually the Council agreed a rise in the allowance of 3 shilling and 3 pence.(16p) making the rate for an able bodied unemployed man 15s3d (76p).
These rates were set by the local Councils not the Government.
The rate of unemployment at the time was one in three men out of work in Birkenhead.
These marches were mainly organised by the NUWM (National Unemployed Workmen's Movement) an offshoot of the Communist Party. The 7 ringleaders went to prison for up to 20 months hard labour, various marchers were held in custody for a few weeks.
My parents were teenagers when all this was going on, and lived by the Park entrance, but it was never mentioned at home when I was growing up.
The Means Test was discussed many a time, my Father would never claim anything, he didn't want those *******s coming into his house and telling him to sell things before they would give him any money, so the legacy lingered on. I would suggest anyone interested should go to the Library and borrow a copy, definitely an eye opener.
Anyway, to get back to the topic of speaker's corner at the Park entrance, I can remember when I was in my early teens in the late 50s, we used to do a bit of barracking on a Sunday, it never seemed to put any of the speakers off, they must have been used to it. I also knew somebody who used to speak about religion there in the early 60s.

forebears.......thanks for that, I just couldn't bring one to mind. If forefathers is sexist and manned needed changing to staffed so as not to offend at the tunnels then what will the bears say?
Thanks locomotive..good synopsis.

This is a really interesting topic, locomotive




They were hard times in the 20's and 30's and I have just had a read of something about it. They didn't seem to get on top of things before the next war started. Poor souls.

As follows :

" A central element of its activities was a series of hunger marches to London, organised in 1922, 1929, 1930, 1932, 1934 and 1936.[1] The largest of these was the National Hunger March, 1932, that was followed by days of serious violence across central London with 75 people being badly injured,[2] which in turn led directly to the formation of the National Council for Civil Liberties.

To the dismay of many within the wider labour movement, the Labour Party and the official trades union bodies offered little support to the legions of unemployed workers during this period. The Trades Union Congress and the National Executive Council advised Labour parties and trades councils along the route of the Jarrow Crusade not to help the marchers, although local branches were more generous."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Unemployed_Workers'_Movement

The next is an article about Frank Fields comparing on 'means tests' in 2006 to 1930's.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-highest-since-the-1930s-says-Field.html

You will probably be interested in this man, Rude. Quite a lengthy article, and Birkenhead is also mentioned. Unfortunately, posting the link is not working, so apologies for this being soooo long.

Leo McGree

Leo Joseph McGree was born in 1900 in Seacombe, Cheshire, the son of an Irish father and Scottish mother. At the age of fourteen, he left school and embarked upon a number of short-lived jobs before finding work in Sheffield. It was while in Sheffield he joined the communist party and met his future wife Hetty.He moved to Edge Hill, Liverpool and at the age of 21 was elected branch secretary for the Amalgamated Society of Woodworkers union.


He was also a key figure in ensuring that the Daily Worker was distributed on Merseyside after the newspaper distribution networks refused to carry the paper because of its political content. He would meet the London train at 04.20 and he and other Communists would courier it throughout the region. He was a regular local public speaker; in one famous speech he denounced sectarianism which blighted Liverpool politics by stating “You fools, you fight each other every 12th of July and 17th of March, but forget about your empty bellies for the rest of the year”.
Leo became a doughty local election candidate for the Party, spearheading a strong tradition in the area, where Communist candidates did surprisingly well, outside of the more usually expected base of Scotland, Wales and the east end of London. The first Communist candidate in Liverpool was J. Young in St Anne's Ward in 1924; in 1925 J. Nield secured 706 or 16% of the vote in the same ward.



Leo first stood as a Communist council candidate in September 1928 for Edge Hill Ward, Liverpool. Later, he stood in Scotland North ward in 1930, receiving 18% of the vote and stood again in 1931 and 1932. He also stood for the parliamentary seat of Liverpool - Scotland, securing by 6%. Other Liverpool Communist council candidates in the 1930s were Mrs Bruce (Scotland North 1931, who received 12% of the vote), W. Fielding (Scotland North 1933), I.P. Hughes (Sandhills 1932), J F Hedley (Low Hill 1932) , A.E Cole (Kirkdale 1932), F.W. Gibson (Brunswick 1933), C.W Heaton (Croxteth 1932, Edge Hill 1933).
Leo’s work within the Communist Party was recognized with his election to the Communist Party Central Committee in 1929 to 1935. He also became a recognized leader of the unemployed in Merseyside in the 1930’s and in 1932, when major disturbances broke out in Birkenhead. On the 13th September, 10,000 unemployed demonstrated to the Public Assistance Committee with the demand for `relief for all able bodied unemployed and an increase of 3s per week, immediate supply of boots and clothes and one hundred weight of coal during winter months and starting of work schemes at trade union rates’. Joe Rawlings and Mrs Barraskill led the deputation to the Council; the local authority agreed to send a telegram to the government calling for the abolition of the means test.



However, as the demonstration dispersed the police made a number of arrests, two days later rioting broke out fuelled by indiscriminate baton charges by the police against women and children. Over 100 protesters and bystanders were hospitalised by the Police. The entire local branch committee of the National Unemployed Workers Movement were arrested. Leo was heavily involved in the protests and received a serious beating from the police and sentenced to twenty months imprisonment at Strangeways (Rawlings received a two-year sentence).



Birkenhead’s stand led to similar Unemployed demonstrations in Liverpool on 21st September, Glasgow, West Ham, Croydon, North Shield and importantly Belfast) Leo had also managed to spend some time during this period collecting funds for the striking Cotton workers in Burnley. When Mosley’s fascists tried to rally in Walton, it was Leo and local communists who organised the opposition.

At the 1946 LiverpoolCity council municipal election, Leo McGree then district secretary of the Building Trades Federation union stood as the Communist candidate for North Scotland ward. While McGree had popular support, it was clear that the Catholic Church was not going to let him be elected and Church dignitaries issued a number of statements denouncing Communism and McGree in particular.



He stood on a platform of demanding a new prefab school to replace the blitzed St Albans School and a feeding centre for children from the overcrowded St Sylvester’s School, who had to travel by tram to another school one and a half miles away for their mid-day meal. Another “menacing problem” was the delay in cleaning up the blitzed sites. It was not until four houses collapsed killing one child and injuring others did the council call a special meeting to discuss the dangers and then the Conservative councillors voted down the clean up plans.



Leo Mcgree was the only TUC delegate ever to move `reference back' of the Obituaries section of the General Council report at its annual conference, on the grounds that it included a reference to the death of former NUR leader, J H Thomas, wisely seen as a traitor owing to his role in the 1926 general strike!



McGree was elected the District President of the Confederation of shipbuilding & Engineering Unions, but in the climate of the cold war anti communism he was witch hunted by the Daily Express newspaper and then by his union, being banned from office because of his political allegiance. He remained a committed communist all his life and when he died in 1967 large crowds attended his funeral at Anfield cemetery, testifying to his local popularity.



Source: J. Arnison `Leo McGree - what a man’ (London 1980)

Michael Walker
http://www.grahamstevenson.me.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=390:leo-mcgree-&catid=13:m&Itemid=114

Matters of interest 1936
The holding of meetings at the park entrance by The British Union of Fascists and Communist Party caused the Chief Constable difficulty in November, when he reported that each Sunday it had become necessary to have 70 members of the force at these meetings in order to prevent any disorder, Although disorder did not arise to any great extent. The Watch Committee finally banned the holding of meetings at the park entrance.
Taken from - Maintaining The Queens Peace
S P Thompson (sergeant) 1958

Granny & dusty, thanks for those posts, they are both  really interesting and enlightening about an all but forgotten past. I remember reading about the men of merseyside marching to join the men of jarrow but never knew how they were abandoned by the labour party. Dark days indeed.

Not sure why you think I would be particularly interested in Leo McGree, Granny but yeah, thanks for posting.

Sod the bears; the only ones in this country are in zoos, and they don't count.

Hands off The Blue Union, Bill Hunters Website is an enlightening read on sell outs,and the fifth tier of management we call "The Union".

I went to Birkenhead Central today to borrow the book. The Librarian and I searched high and low but to no avail On a brighter note, she has reserved the copy from Bebington for me with no fee.

Oh and my Grandad clearly remembers the rallies at Birkenhead Park.

Grandad remembers somebody on their soapbox spouting about Mussolini. Grandad was heckling him as this person, in the past had been supportive of Mussolini.

He said there was loads of jeering from the crowd and the speaker was in hushed talks with three or four others.

Eventually, the Speaker addressed the crowd and said 'This young man is indeed right. I was politically immature at the time'

Wow, what a memory for nearly 95 years of age!!! he was laughing as he told us the story.

(This was in Liverpool, not Birkenhead).

Idle Hands, Clenched Fists

In July 1981, violence erupted on to the streets in Liverpool. In Toxteth unemployed blacks and whites launched an assault on the Liverpool police. For much of July of that year Toxteth was embroiled in a savage, unrelenting battle. The conflagration was born out of the frustration and boredom of unemployment, with the police initially providing a target for the hostility of those on the dole. But there were some watching the rioting in Toxteth who had seen it all before. In the autumn of 1932, those on the dole in Birkenhead had reacted similarly. For a week they had battled with the local police as their frustration finally reached breaking point. So many stories of those earlier riots have been passed down by word of mouth, much of it to become myth, while very little that is accurate has actually been written about them. This book, for the first time, records in detail the events of that autumn on Mersey side.

I am expecting an email any day now to say my reserved copy has arrived at my Branch. Woopy woop.

Finally read the book. Enjoyed it.

It wasn't nice walking around Birkenhead at that time, plod were on high alert and even going down Grange Road at night for a walk was a bit iffy even though they're may have been two of you, if you went out with four or more even though you were just doing the rounds of the pubs, plod would move you on and you didn't get dirty looks you got threats, I hadn't long been back from Saudi and I was working in London and was having a few weeks in Birkenhead, I was actually glad to get back dahhhn south,

Sounds awful. Innocent people beaten in their own homes? People not even involved in the peaceful elements of the demonstrations.

The Establishment colluding together- has anything changed?