http://news.sky.com/story/971196/tia-stuart-hazell-arrested-after-body-found

I stand to be corrected, but wasn't the house searched 4 times by the police already ?? The police may have a few awkward questions to be addressed. They appear to have been a bit slow in treating this case seriously.

Just my own opinions on this, derived from press/radio etc. The true picture will be revealed in due course.

R.I.P.

i thought the house had been searched too, isn't that the first port of call when a child goes missing!! cupboards, attic, under the stairs, shed etc

I think the point they were trying to make is that the body may not have been there when the searches were happening. Police personnel may have missed the body but I very much doubt a group of search dogs who are specially trained for this kind of thing would have missed the scent unless there were some extreme circumstances.

The question is did whoever did it think that the house had been searched as much as it was going to be and thought it safe to bring it back into the house...

There must be thousands of children reported missing each year to the police, they don't automatically suspect any wrong doing and would take the word of whoever reported the disappearance and of the last sighting.
They don't go in to a full scale murder inquiry, initially, any visits to the property would be to gather information on what the missing person was wearing, their usual habits, friends lists and any clues, notes, face book and inter net activities etc. I can't imagine them ripping a house apart every time a child is reported AWOL. The police have to tread very carefully because the vast majority of families are completely innocent when a child goes missing. The police build up a case slowly and deliberately and the criticism at this moment in time is a bit unfair.

quite right bert, as you say so many cases now, it is usually someone close to the family, i can;t believe that other people living in the property are not alerted,especially in a small property.usually there are flies and a smell, its very sad tia has lost her young life in this way.r.i.p. tia sharp

R.i.p x

tia;s grandma has now been arrested as well just on news update.

http://news.sky.com/story/971313/tia-sharps-grandmother-is-murder-suspect

So sad rip. The gran and that rat face lad look like a pair of crack heads.

i agree pesto, wouldn't want them as grandparents, why do family do this to their own ? beggars belief dosen't it

Well said Bert. Notwithstanding the fact that over 80 "witnesses" stated they'd seen her after she'd allegedly left their house.

They were looking for a MisPer, not a body. The blame lies at the hands of those who killed her, not at the feet of those that were trying to find her IMO.

On the R4 news at 6pm the police are now admitting to "human error" in missing her on previous search(s) and want to apologise to her parents etc. etc.

Eventually the truth will come to light, the possibility must exist in view of the neighbour being arrested that the girls body could have been next door in his house and passed back to the grandmothers house when they thought it was safe to do so, with a plan to dispose of her.

As you say Bert, time will tell. One wonders what goes through the minds of this "couple" ? Albert Pierrepoint's remedial method is sadly no longer available. I can't think of two better customers. Sorry, veering OT.

It's claimed in the news that Stuart Hazell is 37. The fooker looks about 70!

Hang him by the neck until dead. R.i.p Tia.

With that

Why is, the first thing people say is hang them. Am sorry but I disagree, and the reason I disagree is, the ... that killed that poor girl made her suffer, and is making her real family & friends suffer. And other people knew what happened to her and they kept quiet, as far as am concerned they should are just as bad as the muderer.

Hanging them is too good, and too quick.

They should be have loads of cuts put all over them with a rusty razor blade, and made to bath in vinegar, and then scrubbed with costic soda.
Make them suffer.

I think the first response being 'hang them' is becaue this was the last form of capital punishment used in Britain.

Sorry BC but I can't agree with you about the torture aspect. Yes they need to be removed from our planet but as quickly and humanely as possible because that's what sets US apart from this ....

Problem is finding someone to do that....

I'd do it if the pay was right

I agree with bc, make them suffer, horribly and slowly.

I'd give them a lethal injection for free.

Didn't think of that, lethal injection is torturous, agonising pain like razor blades ripping through your veins so I believe.

Simples really, just release them into the public . . . same end result as death penalty.

No I didn't mean that at all. General anaesthetic, then the lethal injection. Any form of torture makes us sink to the same depraved depths as the ....

Although...... When baby P was murdered a friend of mine suggested the judge should have said after finding the fooking b*star*s guilty: "You are now free to go".

Christ! You lot sound as bad as murderers. First of all, the guy hasn't been convicted of anything yet. There hasn't even been a trial yet! Secondly, capital punishment doesn't work. Look at the US. They have murder rates that far exceed the UK's. They have the death penalty. We don't. Almost all of the safest countries in the world have abolished the death penalty.

Also, lets have a look at our own history. Since the 1960s when hanging was got rid of for almost all crimes, there have been over 50 people convicted of murder who have since had their sentences overturned. These people were all innocent yet would have been killed if we had retained the death penalty. This would have made the State a murderer.

So when you start demanding the death penalty come back, try to think with a bit more reason and logic, and a bit less emotion.

That said, I have no problem with people like the Yorkshire Ripper, Fred West, Ian Huntley and other such characters being locked up till they die of old age. Such people's crimes are so heinous they should never be released.

The guys a wrongun, he's guilty and will be convicted.

Sits on his fat stinkin ass all day getting pissed with his dole money and that grandma needs a slap too, no way he put the poor girls body up in the attic on his own, he was helped.

Cannot speculate, not enough facts.

Yes, the family appear to be Jeremy Kyle contestant types but we just don't know, as yet??

@ Ste. The u.k is full of 'waste of space' tennant super supping alkies, does not necarrsarily make them child killers/ paedos.

I wouldn't bring capital punishment for every murderer. Just the really sick one's like Huntley, Brady, Shipman, West and this (BEEPED) when he's found guilty.

Think of the saving to tax payer, how much does it cost to keep Huntley & Brady alive each month? And with his easy(ish) life Huntley could well live another 50 or so years.

I would actually for once follow the USA and have 1st and 2nd degree murder, 1st is capital punishment and 2nd is life WITHOUT PAROLE in a highly secure prison involving work & mixing with other inmates.

Sorry that came across wrong, didn't mean it like that rude.

What I meant by that was he's obviously been neglecting the child.

It will all come to light soon I'm sure.

We are all quick to judge.

hmmmm, educated opinion is more my bag, ste

Firstly you're right, everybody is innocent until proven guilty and that's at it should be. Also you're also right about us being far too quick to convict with so few facts, but emotions are running high about this young girl.

But when you say that the death penalty 'doesn't work' I have to disagree. The intention is for them to die and they do, ergo it works. Or did you mean as a deterrent? I don't understand why people argue that it's 'not a deterrent' when that's not the intention, it's actually intended as the ultimate punishmnent.

If a child is murdered then the guilty person has forfeited their right to life imo.

Although I find the death penalty not to be the answer, there were far fewer murders in the 1950's and 60's.Between 1900 and 1949, 621 men and 11 women were executed in England and Wales, 16 of which were spies.So maybe the threat of the death penalty was a deterrent.Between 1887 and 1964, 60 men and 2 women were hung in Walton jail. In 2004, some prisoners are serving less than 5 years for offences which would have seen them hang in 1964. Which is quite worrying, as the crime is obviously not perceived as serious as it used to be!!I don't believe we should compare ourselves to the U.S.A. as not all States carry the death penalty for murder.
Unfortunately , in 1964 I heard the death knoll of the last hanging at Walton prison. It had a big impact and to this day I can hear it. Spine chilling,and I would not like to think of anyone having to perform the task. We need some deterrent for such mindless killings these days, but what the answer is,who knows? Poor little Tia, her life ended by the people she trusted.
Even animals seldom behave to their own, that way.

Maybe the stocks could be a good idea so all their ex friends and families could humiliate them, prior to being locked away. What a good send off!
Hope nobody takes offence at that idea!

Totally agree. 1st degree murder should carry a life sentence without parole NOW. I cannot believe how many murderers get lenient sentences for killing someone. Life should mean life, not life and serving 12 years OR LESS IN SOME CASES in jail.

Unfortunately I don't think that the death penalty will ever be brought back but we could hope the government and judiciary could make sentencing meaningful.

the death sentence is final,no chance to reoffend. (case closed)

What happens if they hang the wrong person? (case reopened)

I think with forensic evidence these days that is very unlikely.

Its only conclusive on the tele, not in real life.

Ido not form my oppinions from television,they are mine as yours are yours.

No it's not. DNA can be, and indeed has been, tampered with on quite a number of occasions.

Source?

if you take a life, and you are found guilty, you should face the death penalty end off.....not do time and be realeased after a few years, how much is it costing to keep these people in prision...we are too soft in the uk

How would you have given this lad and many others their life back.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18102336

One good example Bert.

Can anyone say if DNA is eliminated after clothes have been washed or dry cleaned?

It depends on the format the DNA is in; skin tissue (epithelia's) tend to be washed away unless "trapped" inside stitches, holes in buttons, zip teeth or similar.
Blood is going to stay, ignore the Persil advert, it's still there, all that has happened is the colour has been removed (technical explanations on Iron and Haemoglobin available on request ).
Hair is always useful, moreso if it still has the root attached, as without it it is only possible (at this time) to link Mitochondrial DNA (passed from mother to her children).

Thanks, very interesting Doc.
Why, therefore do we either recycle or donate our clothes to charity shops? Is that not a concern for obvious reasons?

The Stefan Ivan Kiszko case for one. A man who would have been executed if we still have the death penalty. I'm not just talking about cases that have happened, but also the potential for it to happen in the future.

Put them on death row and they have got years to clear their names if they are innocent.

No. Sometimes innocence is proven many years after someone has been convicted. At least with a life sentence, there's always the chance of an appeal or retrial if fresh evidence comes to light.

Ok, say you're the Home Secretary or Judge and you send a convicted murderer to the be executed. Later on, after being executed, evidence comes to light that they were actually innocent. Does that make you a murderer too? Should you be hung too? Where does it all stop?

Some of the people convicted of murder in the UK but later overturned:

The Guildford Four;
The Birmingham Six;
Stephen Downing;
Barry George;
Stefan Kiszko;
Judith Ward;
The Bridgewater Four;
Sean Hodgson;
Winston Scott;
The Cardiff Three;
Sally Clark;
Donna Anthony;
Suzanne Hodsworth;
Barri White;
Keith Hyatt;
Oscar Slater.

Some of the people executed by the UK Government and later pardoned:

Timothy Evans;
George Kelly;
Mahmood Hussein Mattan;
Derek Bentley.

The list in countries such as China and the USA is considerably longer.

With you on most of this Touchstone (for a change ) but what would you consider to be a deterrent? There has to be one, in an effort to protect the innocents from being murdered.

Are there too many psychopaths wandering our streets with access to vulnerable people? Should they be locked away to protect others as they used to be?

Should paranoid schizophrenics continue to have care in the community?

Should people under the watch of Social Services be allowed to have children in their homes?

Or should a life sentence mean life without reprieve?


I don't know, but would think the latter might be of some benefit. The reason behind these horrendous crimes is something else which needs addressing.

If anyone of us lost a child in such a manner maybe we would not be debating.
The mother of Keith Bennett must have been eaten away for the last 46 years. Brady and Hindley got life, but Mrs (Bennett) Johnson also got life.

I would sooner be hung wrongly than locked up for anywhere between 5-50 years wrongly then aquitted because of new evidence.

How would you know that you would rather be hung? You, like me and everyone else on Wikiwirral, have never faced the prospect of being killed for something you never did.

Nice to be on the same page as you on this issue, Granny. I'm sure we actually agree on more subjects than you think. Not the Monarchy though!

To try an address some of your points, it's such a complicated issue. I really think we need to take all the emotional stuff out of it. Doesn't help people think straight.
There are some sick buggers out there who should never be released. The likes of Brady, Huntley, Rose West, Peter Tobin [Bible John?] etc. Their crimes are so bad they must stay locked up for the rest of their lives.
There are many people with mental illnesses walking round. One only has to spend a little time in Birkenhead Town Centre to see this. One of the reasons is to save money. The government and local authorities have slashed mental health and care budgets over the last 30 years so many people don't have access to the help they need. It also leaves the general public vulnerable as Care In The Community is such a cheap alternative. In this country, we moan about paying taxes and demand spending cuts. Well that results in less and lower quality public services. This is one of the results.

Regarding a deterrent; yes we need one. However, Capital Punishment isn't an effective or ethical one. The USA has far higher murder rates. I've heard figures of around 15,000 a year over there compared to about 700 in the UK. A massive difference.
One answer could be more academic studies of murderers. Try and see what makes them tick. What makes one human carry out a premeditated murder.

Finally, I don't think Keith Bennet's mother will ever find out. Brady either has no intention, or probably has forgotten where he buried the poor lad. It's very sad for her as I believe she only has a few months to live.

life should mean life, not half the sentence and out after a few years, if they are lifers, why should we keep them at a very high cost to the taxpayer,hang them take their life too.america has a much larger population than us , and you can access guns very easily,we all have our thoughts, but the quality of people now has headed south i am sorry to say

The US has about five times our population but around twenty times the murder rate.
Hang them? And if they later turn out be innocent?

Because I know my own mind, I would honestly sooner be hung wrongly than locked up as a nonce for years, the mental damage would be worse.

id d.n.a. is conclusive and witness statements watertight, and maybe an admission, then like everything else you will always get one that slips the net guilty or innocent.
how many guilty people walk free for one reason or another.
other countries are firmer than us.
look at the arabs...jailed for kissing there.
in this country people know they get off lightly, so there is not a lot of a deterent, is there? people have lost their lives because of a drunk driver, and had a very light sentence, where is justice there you have to ask yourself,

this is a very emotive topic and we all have opinions, its good to air them