wirral forums

Frank Field Going?

Posted By: diggingdeeper

Frank Field Going? - 28th Jul 2018 4:29pm

Birkenhead CLP have voted to remove the whip from Frank Field and to prevent his future selection.

https://www.thepeoplesnewsonline.co...end-whip-and-deselect-rebel-frank-field/

Its been a long time coming, many left-wing activists have been annoyed by him blurring the lines between socialism and right-wing.

I don't entirely agree with this action but I can see where they are coming from. If one way or another he is de-selected they are going to have to find the right (well left really) candidate or this could seriously backfire.
Posted By: jimbob

Re: Frank Field Going? - 28th Jul 2018 6:49pm

its the 1980s all over again, the militant tendency attempted to have Frank kicked out in the mid 80s. The conservative party are heading for years in the wilderness and they will not be on there own as the labour party as it now stands will be there with them.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 28th Jul 2018 8:11pm

Militant are still around but they use the name Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition for elections. They are nothing whatsoever to do with Momentum or Corbyn, neither of which are extreme left-wing.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 28th Jul 2018 8:58pm

Frank's response is HERE

He openly admits he's not representing his constituents, in fact in the past he has been quite adamant he shouldn't and this is obviously going to cause friction, there are more diplomatic ways of avoiding these problems. On this occasion he was going against his constituents and his party, he can only expect repercussions.
Posted By: jimbob

Re: Frank Field Going? - 29th Jul 2018 8:53am

Beg to differ regarding Momentum or Corbyn are not extreme left wing. you may as well have said the Moon is made of Cheese
Posted By: casper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 29th Jul 2018 9:04am

Another confused politician that crossed the floor, perhaps he should move back again, maybe start another political party, Transpolit we sit on the fence.
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Frank Field Going? - 29th Jul 2018 1:15pm

I think he has always been keen to adopt a far more right wing view than any socialist politician should. Typical of the comfy well heeled PLP politicians who oppose any change.

Corbyn's popularity is based on the fact that he is an unashamed socialist and that seems to be a rarity in the Labour party. If he is to change the face of British politics - as everyone hopes he will - he needs to be rid of the Frank Fields of this world.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 29th Jul 2018 3:53pm

Originally Posted by jimbob
Beg to differ regarding Momentum or Corbyn are not extreme left wing. you may as well have said the Moon is made of Cheese


They are only extreme left wing if you think Blair was left wing, he wasn't, he was measured by university studies as being right of Thatcher!

The country has got too used to having disguised right-wingers calling themselves socialists to the point where we have forgotten what socialism is.

As I've stated before Theresa May's first speech was undoubtedly a left-wing speech and nobody would accuse her actions as being left wing. Its a continual barrage of propaganda and nothing to do with reality.

The desperation of the rich to prevent the majority of the population from having a fair life has gone way too far, anti-Semitism, financial control etc all openly lied about to quash the masses. One of the most anti-Semitic countries is Israel because of the way they are treating Palestinians (most newspapers don't even know the definition of anti-Semitism, it is little to do with Judaism). There is no significant link between Labour and anti-Semitism, its fiction and propaganda.

We are the fifth richest country in the world and we have the lives way below that level, in America it is even worse but of course America is a very right-wing country, the average American is virtually a slave working excessive hours often in two or three jobs and still living in near poverty, that is where we are heading, we are gradually duplicating America, even our laws and benefits are often using the same terminology. Of course on American TV programs it is rare to see the average American, its more the upper quartile that is represented, everybody else is portrayed as criminals usually.
Posted By: casper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 29th Jul 2018 6:27pm

Very well put DD, my sentiments exactly.
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Frank Field Going? - 31st Jul 2018 9:25am

You have sexist (Jared Omara) and other other racist and anti Semitic MPs who get a bit of a telling off and that's it....

Yet other MP's who dared to go against the "authority" of the Glorious Leader st Jezza are facing instant inquiries and deselection.

Momentum doing a bit of muscle flexing and using this to remove the undesirable members of the Party? It's like a little mini Stalinist purge this...
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 31st Jul 2018 10:09am

There is nothing wrong with removing right-wing members of a left-wing party.

There is nothing wrong with removing members who continuously undermine the party and its democratically elected leader.

There is everything wrong with appeasing the media on made up false propaganda.
Posted By: casper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 31st Jul 2018 5:40pm

Originally Posted by Gibbo
You have sexist (Jared Omara) and other other racist and anti Semitic MPs who get a bit of a telling off and that's it....

Yet other MP's who dared to go against the "authority" of the Glorious Leader st Jezza are facing instant inquiries and deselection.

Momentum doing a bit of muscle flexing and using this to remove the undesirable members of the Party? It's like a little mini Stalinist purge this...


Gibbo, are we returning to the old old story, reds under the beds, David Sterlings secret army waiting to arrest Harold Wilson as a Russian spy and sympathiser and overthrow a Labour government, and yes it was discussed behind closed doors, although never acted on, and guess which party would replace them ?
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Frank Field Going? - 1st Aug 2018 8:48am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
There is nothing wrong with removing right-wing members of a left-wing party.


Frank Field right wing? What a joke.

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
There is nothing wrong with removing members who continuously undermine the party and its democratically elected leader.


There is something wrong when so many MPs in that party don't agree with their leader. Its not the MPs who are at fault, its that they have the wrong leader.

103 Labour resignations in nearly three years under Jeremy Corbyn:
https://order-order.com/2018/06/14/all-103-resignations-under-corbyn/

But keep wearing those blinkers and believing he's a good leader and will lead Labour to victory. You can parachute Momentum yes-men into safe Labour seats and you'll just see those majorities disappear as the Labour vote gets split even further.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 1st Aug 2018 3:27pm

It’s wrong that so many MPs disagree with their members, the party’s democracy and the party’s ethos.

They were brought in by right wing Blair under the New Labour banner. Now Labour has returned to being Labour either they should accept that or leave.
Posted By: philmch

Re: Frank Field Going? - 1st Aug 2018 3:28pm

Frank Field is not "right wing" by any stretch of the imagination. He has served Birkenhead since 1979 and has done us proud. If he was to be replaced with some Hatton / Scargill millionaire "socialist" I wouldn't vote Labour again and I suspect many others wouldn't either.

The fact that he is a moderate is part of his appeal just as it was with Blair (whom we were glad of at the time of his election). Furthermore, as a Leave voter I am grateful that he backed the government.

Some people within the party seem to want a return to the bad old days of Militant, strikes, and unions bullying their own members. I think they'll that most Labour voters don't want these things.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Frank Field Going? - 1st Aug 2018 3:56pm

Originally Posted by Gibbo
103 Labour resignations in nearly three years under Jeremy Corbyn:
https://order-order.com/2018/06/14/all-103-resignations-under-corbyn/


And because that list contains only 97 unique names, here are the people who resigned twice (sometimes for the same listed reason):

Sarah Champion
Jenny Chapman
Alex Cunningham
John Healey
Andy Slaughter
Chuka Umunna
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 1st Aug 2018 4:49pm

Name one politician with as many supporters as Corbyn, not only do they support him, they are prepared to put their money where their mouths are, a very rare thing for any most parties let alone a single politician.

Blair started as a moderate but went right-wing, this was about the time he got nobbled over sports sponsorship by cigarette companies.

Why does everyone think left-wing means extreme left, Corbyn and momentum do not have extreme left policies, just normal socialism which is more about basic morality than anything else but of course morals and right-wing are not common bedfellows.

If Corbyn is no threat, how come so many people are doing more to discredit him than any other politician in British history? It doesn't add up does it, those in the know realise he is a very real potential leader of the country otherwise they would just let him fizzle out.

They even blame(?) his popularity on the youth vote which has been proven to be untrue (the youths mostly didn't bother voting as usual), his popularity is with those that lived through the Blair and Thatcher years and don't want anything like that again, Corbyn happens to be an available politician to offer decent socialism, that is why he is popular, it is socialism and morality that people want

Even if it had of been youth vote, how can that be anything apart from a democratic result, you can't "blame" it on democratic vote .... but it makes for good propaganda along with all the rest of the garbage they are coming up with.

And mentioning propaganda, that's twice its been implied that I said Frank was right-wing, I have a lot of admiration for Frank, I knew him outside politics, like any other person I don't expect to agree with everything they think but I do think his behaviour in recent times has sometimes been unbecoming to his position.
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Frank Field Going? - 2nd Aug 2018 9:04am

The thing you forget is that Blair made Labour finally electable again.

The Tories are in the worst state they've been for ages, Labour should be leaps and bounds ahead of them in the polls, but they're level pegging.

The weekly polls say that people don't want Corbyn as PM. There are many, me included, that won't vote for Labour while he's in charge. You can't go from career backbencher to leader. He's a fence sitter and a weak leader in his own party, he'd be even worse dealing with other world leaders. And the cronies he's surrounded himself with are just as bad. Diane Abbot as home secretary?

The Blair and Thatcher years weren't so bad. In the latter many got onto the housing ladder thanks to the right to buy. As for the former, we had a pretty good economy until the financial crash. Things got worse due to Brown, not Blair.

As for Frank Field, he's been doing a sterling job working with the government on a number of projects for many years. If you think that an opposition MP should not participate with "the enemy" in any way, then again, that's very sad and doesn't help the country one bit. Have you never heard of cross-party committees?
Posted By: casper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 2nd Aug 2018 9:30am

Originally Posted by Gibbo
The thing you forget is that Blair made Labour finally electable again.

The Tories are in the worst state they've been for ages, Labour should be leaps and bounds ahead of them in the polls, but they're level pegging.

The weekly polls say that people don't want Corbyn as PM. There are many, me included, that won't vote for Labour while he's in charge. You can't go from career backbencher to leader. He's a fence sitter and a weak leader in his own party, he'd be even worse dealing with other world leaders. And the cronies he's surrounded himself with are just as bad. Diane Abbot as home secretary?

The Blair and Thatcher years weren't so bad. In the latter many got onto the housing ladder thanks to the right to buy. As for the former, we had a pretty good economy until the financial crash. Things got worse due to Brown, not Blair.

As for Frank Field, he's been doing a sterling job working with the government on a number of projects for many years. If you think that an opposition MP should not participate with "the enemy" in any way, then again, that's very sad and doesn't help the country one bit. Have you never heard of cross-party committees?


Cross party committee works both ways Gibbo
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Frank Field Going? - 3rd Aug 2018 2:35pm

ANDREW PIERCE: If the most impressive Labour MP of our age is forced out by hard Left thugs, God help British democracy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-hard-Left-thugs-God-help-democracy.html
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 3rd Aug 2018 3:15pm

On the other hand, previous achievements don't qualify you as being the best for the job currently or in the future, being an MP isn't a reward for previous service rendered.

Some of his statements towards Phillip Green would not have happened in previous years and were approaching the type of thuggery which he would possibly have fought against in the past.

I'm sure if he put his mind to it he could be as good as he was, but is his heart and energy still in it?

Wirralleaks has campaigned against Frank for many years, I can't remember what triggered that off?

His refusal to attend his own CLP meetings has most certainly not helped his corner and something I find very difficult to explain for any MP as I find it discourteous and others find it self-righteous..

The other obvious question is what has he done for his own constituency as a whole, while he may have been an excellent national politician, what about his local representation? His relationship with the Council has mostly been kept behind closed doors, if any relationship happened or was this like his attitude towards CLP meetings? For those reasons he may be better suited in the Lords as there has been little chance of him becoming a front bench MP again for some time now.

On a straight yes/no vote I would not vote against Frank, yes I am sitting on the fence a bit because I can see some of the reasons he has ended up in this position and I can't say they are definitely unjustified.,
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 30th Aug 2018 4:30pm

Frank Field has resigned the whip and is going independent.

Mike Sullivan (Councillor for Pensby and Thingwall) resigned the whip the other day and is also going independent.

Its going to get messier and may lead to another Tory Government at the next elections but the country needs a left wing party to vote for.

Personally I would like to see all the political parties abolished and all councillors and MP's be independent but still accountable to the electorate.
Posted By: GregoryPeccary

Re: Frank Field Going? - 31st Aug 2018 1:48pm

Frank has always says that he stands for the vulnerable and disenfranchised in his constituency. However, his siding with the Government over the Brexit union vote allowed the Tories to escape a defeat that may well have lead to a general election and the chance of a Labour victory. Mr Field, therefore, has condemned Birkenhead to another 3 or 4 years of cruelty and deprivation under Tory misrule. Unfortunately for him, he will be remembered for this rather than his other good works down the years.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 31st Aug 2018 5:22pm

Originally Posted by GregoryPeccary
Frank has always says that he stands for the vulnerable and disenfranchised in his constituency.


That is true but he is an MP not a Councillor, he is voted in on what he should do in Parliament, he (like many other MPs) have become a first port of call for local matters through his surgeries, he should only step in on local matters when the Council has been approached to resolve the matter and failed.

I had no bones to pick with Frank until recent times but he has become abusive which concerns me and I don't like that he does not attend his CLP meetings. He can't complain about what happens in the CLP if he doesn't attend them.

Jumping on the anti-semitic anti-Corbyn bandwagon as a spiteful response to people disagreeing with him is a sheer act of malice and I will now support his removal.

He was big headed enough to believe that even though he had resigned the whip he thought he could stand as an independent Labour candidate .... er no! You can't stay in the Labour party if you are not supporting an official Labour candidate.

Now he is talking abort forcing a local election by resigning as MP and presumably putting himself forward as a candidate. I doubt there is a rule against this because nobody thought anyone to do it. Either you are resigning as an MP or you are not.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 3rd Sep 2018 4:59pm

This is an incident that disgusted me, whilst it can be argued that Frank is right or wrong in what he said, the way he puts it across is completely arrogant and pompous.

Posted By: dustymclean

Re: Frank Field Going? - 3rd Sep 2018 11:36pm

Franks answer,

Attached picture img20180904_00314483.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Frank Field Going? - 4th Sep 2018 1:37am

As I said, its not the content of what he said, its the way he said it, he came over that it is unthinkable that he should be accountable.

There are two reasons why the Birkenhead Labour vote has increased, one is Corbyn, the other is the Tories need kicking out, the Tory Governments have done nothing for Wirral along with other northern socialist areas.

Most of the time Blair was in power he was not a moderate, he was authoritarian right-wing, the opposite of what the Labour party should be, selling your soul and morals purely to get elected doesn't make sense.

On the same measure as the calculations for this graphic (political-compass), I come out as slightly left wing and slightly authoritarian.

Attached picture 2018-09-04_022946.jpg
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Frank Field Going? - 7th Oct 2018 9:59pm

Was at a function the other night and Frank Field was the guest not for politics but because he has had an involvement with the new wilfried owen war memorial going in Hamilton Square next year. Came across as a decent chap with a real interest and knowledge about Wilfred Owen. He was asked about his situation and his answer showed he was ready for the fight.

Just a heads up on Wilfred Owen .. a film is coming out in November (Heswall Hall, Christchurch Oxton ) the Burying Party which has won a lot of film awards. Didnt realise till recently he was gay..
Posted By: RUDEBOX

Re: Frank Field Going? - 8th Oct 2018 2:48am

[quote=fish5133. Didnt realise till recently he was gay..
[/quote]
I guess he won't get an invitation to your mates son's wedding then?
Posted By: granny

Re: Frank Field Going? - 8th Oct 2018 8:04am

Originally Posted by fish5133
Was at a function the other night and Frank Field was the guest not for politics but because he has had an involvement with the new wilfried owen war memorial going in Hamilton Square next year. Came across as a decent chap with a real interest and knowledge about Wilfred Owen. He was asked about his situation and his answer showed he was ready for the fight.

Just a heads up on Wilfred Owen .. a film is coming out in November (Heswall Hall, Christchurch Oxton ) the Burying Party which has won a lot of film awards. Didnt realise till recently he was gay..


Frank Field is respected by many, and not just in this area. That sounds an interesting film, Fish, is it open to anyone.

I do get pretty fed up with Wirral claiming fame from Wilfred Owen and find it quite distasteful for areas to be 'out doing' each other over such things, for pure recognition and tourism.
Wilfred Owen came here from Shrewsbury for 3 months in 1897. Wilfred Owen was 4 yrs old when they returned to Shrewsbury ! The family returned to Wirral in 1898 until 1907 and they left again to return to Shrewsbury when Wilfred Owen was 14yrs old.. Shrewsbury was the family's real home and obviously not Wirral..
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Frank Field Going? - 8th Oct 2018 8:43pm

He was born in Oswestry. The weatherspoons pub in oswestry is called The Wifred Owen. Lived in Birkenhead for 7 years which was almost a third of his life. I used to sit at his desk at school it had "Wilfred Owen Woz Here" carved into it..
Film showings will be public

https://www.theburyingparty.com/
Posted By: granny

Re: Frank Field Going? - 8th Oct 2018 10:06pm



You telling us he didn't know how to spell ? Did you know who he woz when you sat at his desk ?
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