Liverpool City Region has been approved to get an elected Mayor and devolved powers. I can't see how this can possibly work without Wirral completely losing its political identity.

Interesting that the BBC has called this "Merseyside" and not Liverpool City Region, I would feel a bit more comfortable with the Merseyside title. We are not part of Liverpool and even less so part of Liverpool City.

The final say is by all the councils voting on Thursday this week, I pray at least one council will realise what will become of this.

I think it appalling that there is no referendum on this occurring, we the people should have a say. We already have the ability to share services, what more can this amalgamation bring apart from more jobs for politicians and council officials?

BBC SOURCE
Liverpool Echo SOURCE

I agree, not happy with it. I hate how people out of the region already associate Wirral as a part of Liverpool.

I see Wirral being more of a cash cow for Liverpool and getting the crumbs. I've lived in Leigh where Wigan was the same, and the same with Manchester - Salford.

I have never liked the expression 'Liverpool City region'. I suppose they want Liverpool in the name for people elsewhere in the country and in the world; it might make it easier to locate the place, as more people might know Liverpool than Merseyside. However, it needs to work for the people who live here too. We may be able to see Liverpool city from Wirral, but that doesn't mean we feel a part of it. I wonder if people in Southport, Knowsley or Halton feel the same?

Out of the frying pan into the fire, lets hope its not a Wirral burns fire.

The whole affair is worrying. Liverpool have incorporated us (Wirral) for many years in a sneaky back door entrance, but this now means we (Wirral) will ultimately loose any benefits we did have from being outside from Liverpool.

They will have to have the skills to be able to make the right choices, as there will obviously be no more. They can't manage their affairs now, and change of Mayor, change of political party, different political councillors on either side of the fence. What mayhem could resolve and the £30 million a year will be gone in half the time. Liverpool always did spend over and above their budget but not much happens for change. It's a bad move particularly for residents of Wirral. Thin end of the wedge and residents should definitely have been consulted.
Merseyside were given heaps of it from European funding, Wirral didn't see much f it, and Liverpool are still moaning about not getting anything or being hard up.
One main wish is that Joe Anderson could speak properly for the position he holds, instead of like a scouse reject.

Wirral belongs in Cheshire. We were brought into Merseyside as part of a mad political empire.

Every time there is an enlargement there is an increase in the levels of management. Remember when Birkenhead Corporation Transport was amalgamated to make Mersey Passenger Transport Executive. The head of Birkenhead Transport suddenly became 5th in the hierarchy. And look at the mess the local transport is in now. Woodside should've been the hub for the town not that crazy system by the market. The Ferries might still be operating as a big concern. We'll dip out again.

Halton is still in Cheshire yet is included in LCR



Totally agree!

It's not surprising that people are unhappy at the plans but it's important to remember that the current proposals come from the Chancellor, George Osborne. As the BBC source makes clear not all the local councils are particularly keen - and that is the case in other areas, like Yorkshire, the N East and Midlands where similar proposals have been agreed or are under discussion. The problem for the big northern cities is that the government has cut their funding substantially and is pushing them to agree to the new city regions by offering some (limited) extra money. Also many people nowadays support the idea of devolving powers away from Westminster,at least in principle. It would be good to have a proper debate, particularly on the idea of having an elected mayor for the new region, but the Government has made clear that it isn't up for debate, and councils can't put the idea to a local referendum or the package doesn't go ahead.

By the way, it's a long time since we had anything to do with Cheshire. The existing local government structure, which created Wirral Metropolitan Borough council as a part of Merseyside, came into effect in 1974, over 40 years ago, as part of a restructuring of local government throughout England and Wales.

It is going to be yet another blame passing exercise, the Regional Authority will be twisted into taking austerity measures and the government will not take the blame.

Business rates will be set by the Regional Authority, catch 22, they will want to increase them to fill the austerity holes and fund other projects BUT each area will have different business rates and the pressure will be on to reduce them to attract more businesses.

While the Regional Authority had to literally beg to get the elected mayor, without it they would be penalised by not being part of the Northern Powerhouse.

Government pulling the strings all the time but passing the blame to others.

And one of Margaret Thatcher's finer decisions was the one to abolish the criminal enterprise that was Merseyside County Council.

My birth certificate states that I was born in "Wallasey, Cheshire". That's what it still is as far as I'm concerned.

Is there any great difference between this and what the function of North West Development Agency was ? I don't think so, other than being more localised .

Pre-liminary details of a Meeting, next month:

'We’ve all read about DevoManc – and now DevoMersey. ‘Devolved’ powers and budgets (including health) for local councils. Surely that’s a good thing? Aren’t all our North West councils in favour?

Well, we say ‘devo’ is short for DevoDeception. And we fear it will end in DevoDevastation – including for the NHS.

How and why is this happening? To find out, to discuss the issues, to hear from the invited experts and politicians – and to decide how we might combat this menace, come to our:

EMERGENCY PUBLIC MEETING

FRIDAY 17TH DECEMBER

LIVERPOOL CITY CENTRE

6.00-8.00PM

The venue and speakers will be announced as soon as possible.

Yes, we know it’s the week before Christmas and traffic and shops and parking could be horrendous. But wouldn’t saving the NHS be the best Christmas present for our loved ones?

One big Merseyside council seems quite a good idea to me. It should result in fewer councils and lower costs through economies of scale. It is ridiculous to pretend that Merseyside is not an economic entity and separate out Wirral from it.

I have been far from impressed with the vast sums of money spent on trying to rival Liverpool in things like the hopeless 'Hamilton Quarter' project. Liverpool seems likely to do well from the 'Northern power house' project, and it is ridiculous to want to be excluded from this.

Also, I think it makes a better case for eliminating tunnel fees. One could argue that it discriminates against Wirral compared with other Liverpool regions who are not compelled to pay charges to get to work or shop in the city centre.

The problem is that you need the bus station near the town centre and the shops.

But that is not what is going to happen, there will be yet another empire built up, all these concepts are usually politicians looking after their own advancement. Look at the PCC, the original concept was a small department and now we have THIS (which I'm sure is incomplete).

Of course we are not one economic entity, only in the same sense that the whole world is. We need jobs on the Wirral, we need facilities on the Wirral, we shouldn't have to cross the Mersey, it is a natural border. If we combine, anything national and international will go to Liverpool and we will be proffered the dregs. Wirral has lost its docks and its national railway, Liverpool has docks, airport and national railway, guess where the national/international businesses will be targeted.

You only have to look at Wigan and Leigh or Manchester and Salford to see how well these joint authorities work.



I didn't see the Hamilton Quarter being designed as competition against Liverpool, its intention was the refocussing of Birkenhead but with the demise of Woodside it was pointless. Liverpool also have had more than their fair share of wastes, look at the Garden Festival site.

They have asked yet again for the Government to eliminate the loan. The Government is offering that the LCR will have control over the tunnel fares.



Virtually all buses to/from Woodside would pass one side or the other of the shopping centre, it worked exceedingly well in the past.

There is nothing at Woodside to attract people in sufficient numbers to justify a major bus terminal there. It is practically deserted most of the time.

It would be better to use the land for something else, although I can't imagine what apart from multi storey car parking for the Station for commuters and shoppers to get to and from Liverpool. A new bridge or tunnel to the station would probably be needed even then.

Attempts to attract businesses into the area have been a huge failure, and I find it quite depressing to walk through it.

The idea behind it all is that transferring responsibility - and funding, from London to the northern cities will stimulate economic regeneration. That, for example, if decisions about infrastructure investment in the north are made in the north rather than in London than the outcome is likely to be better. One statistic that is quoted is that seven times as much is spent on transport infrastructure in London as in the north and that devolving decision making to the north will change that. Of course devolving decision making won’t of itself significantly change anything unless additional funding is provided. The judgement the northern cities have made is that, on balance, it is worth signing up to the government plan because it establishes the principle of devolving decision making and although there is little extra money now they can make the case for more in the future.

Whatever people think of the idea, it isn’t primarily about Wirral’s relationship with Liverpool but the economic regeneration of the big northern conurbations, based around Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, Sheffield and Newcastle. Although, to those who don’t like the idea of being associated with Liverpool, I would simply point out that the economic growth of the Wirral is inextricably linked to that of Liverpool

All very fine in theory Bob - the reality is so often something completely different.

Absolutely correct, but the funding is being cut, this is transferring responsibility of those cuts away from London so the government doesn't get the blame.

We have MP's elected to represent these regions, what is the point of having another shadow representation? The point is to get the blame away from MP's who are part of government.

Additionally all the career politicians in local councils are given an even greater career path so many of them like yet another level of administration - same goes for the (already overpaid) local government officials.

£30m "extra" funding a year won't even touch the cuts that will go on at the same time. When the business rates are devolved they will have to be put up by the regional authority and yet again this will not be blamed on the government.

This is blame management at its worst, the government not taking responsibility for its own actions.

Anyone who remembers the bus terminal at Woodside would strongly disagree with you. Ferries, trains and buses a complete transport hub - but of course the ferries have been removed as a main form of transport and parking has been severely restricted to make sure things are less viable.



Woodside business park seems to be doing extremely well.

I remember Woodside when the ferries were well used, but those days have long gone. The Woodside hotel has gone, and the Pier Hotel has remained empty since it was extensively refurbished several decades ago, along with the retail units next door to it and the office block in which it now sits. It was probably all done at council expense. There is still nothing to attract people there at all.

I would say the business park is surviving, but whether it is doing well or not is hard to say. There doesn't seem a lot of footfall there either. Perhaps the area needs a retail park, but attracting shops to the area would be a huge struggle.

Certainly planning has failed the whole area, despite the money spent on the daft 'Hamilton Quarter' thing.

Quite correct but at the same time the Government has not forced this on anyone. Liverpool want it and asked for it.

They have forced it, the financial penalties of not becoming part of a regional authority are huge.

My mistake. What are the financial penalties ?

I actually thought everyone was 'up for' devolution'

Far from it, in 2004 there were going to be 3 referendums, the first one went against regional assemblies (77.9% against) and it was clear the others were going to do the same so the government cancelled the referendums.

The financial penalties are at least in part the loss of grants if you don't have a metro-Mayer. I'm sure I read about a more direct penalty as well (basically a straight fine) .... trying to find the reference.

Phil Davies was 100% against the metro-Mayer concept and had to do a very embarrassing U-turn when the implications were spelt out to him.

An example of what is happening is with Greater Manchester Regional Authority.

The NHS funding is in a mess (£1.6b in arrears in 6 months) - so the government have devolved Health and Social Care to the Greater Manchester Authority. From now on, all the changes due to money shortage will be blamed on the authority.

The only real hope that the authority can make the books balance is by centralising all the Health and Social Care facilities - great for Manchester itself but the outlying areas will lose facilities.

So when the Liverpool Regional Authority have to sort out this sort of mess, Wirral will probably be left with one accident and emergency department (as now) but almost all other hospital facilities will disappear.

Never mind how good a regional authority is, it can't create better when there is a huge shortage of money. Osborne is desperately needing at least another £6b pounds even allowing for the recently negotiated cuts - the money isn't going to appear on trees.

The amalgamation of hospital specialist services has been in the process for years now. Liverpool Centre of Excellence for Health. Most have or will be divided up between us and Liverpool,for example the Cancer Centre to Liverpool, the stroke unit to Chester, and this process was first proposed in the early/ mid 2000's by the Labour Government. It has progressed from then. The reason; so that they don't have to pay for specialist consultants in every hospital. Unite the departments across the region and it saves on staff and facilities. That isn't new and as most of the womens' problems also have to go across to Liverpool Woman's hospital now, that is another specialist centre. Councillor McDowell (I think) had a fair bit to do with it. Liverpool got masses of money for that purpose.
Unfortunately, in 2013 the prestigious Centre Of Excellence status for the Cancer Research Centre in Liverpool failed to be renewed. Liverpool failed to meet the criteria and therefore failed to get the funding that all other cities did.
Who is answerable ? They need to get their fingers out of their own backsides , and realise that once they have these prestigious awards and the money that goes with it, they need to keep their eye on the ball.
Liverpool waste money after money after money, then blame everyone else. They'll have Wirral's share too and Phil Davies will bat on hoping to become Mayor and saying all the right things in all the right places. We will end up with fewer jobs in the area as Liverpool will be amalgamated with us on the job front too ,and as has happened before, when it started back in 2007. A slow but similar decisive programme which we now hear about, but has been in the pipeline for yonks. Don't be fooled.

A big question is what deal was struck with Joe Anderson when his nose was put out of joint on the formation of Liverpool City Region.

I believe the Police and Crime Commissioner Jane Kennedy may well have her sights on metro-Mayer as well. She laid her path down for further things when she stood down as MP in 2010 knowing she would probably become PCC in 2012.

May be wrong but wasn't that something to do with him not attending , for one reason or another ?

(Have you voted for your favourite poems DD ?) 5 mins left

Not the reference I was looking for but Phil Davies said ...

Bit dodgy Quoting the snake oil salesman (U turn Phil) to make a point DD.

Its politics, difficult to avoid factual lubricant in that world.

Oil the facts with snake oil the reptiles love it. (Likely to get less money)is not a fact but a get out clause.Objective One phase two is a better description for what we are about to squander again.

Ample transport used to go past the town centre from outlying areas and Woodside had numerous routes going from there to the town centre. The fares weren't so horrendously expensive either. It was a big shock to come back to the town after being away for years and seeing the way everything was turned upside down. I include the siting of Wallasey for the town hall (only one bus passes there from the Birkenhead side of the docks and if that's a centralised thinking ploy then I'm a Dutchman, and I don't mean Dutch Eddy either.) They just seem to me to have cocked everything up and their decision making doesn't auger well for a bigger authority in this area. Listened to Radio Merseyside and Joe going on about it and this side of the river hardly got a mention, we've been erased already.

Part of that?
No chance, this is Wirral and I'm proud of it.

To return to the Woodside question: when it was the main bus terminus we had not only the frequent ferries but also the rail station. Apart from that, it was busy because of the thriving businesses in the Hamilton Square area and a thriving dock area; (who remembers when you could hardly move along Shore Road for all the traffic)? with the lairage, Grayson Rollo & Clover and lots of small but important businesses employing many people, the vast majority of whom didn't own cars and actually used the buses. The situation now is totally different: there's no point having a bus terminus in an area of relative desolation.

Precisely, you remove the infrastructure and the place becomes more desolate - if the infrastructure returns then the area will attract more. First the national station went, then the buses, then the ferries.

But in reality there are a lot of people still work in that area.

Cheshire lines, College, Woodside Business Park and at least one of the CSA or Land Registry buildings is still in use (if not both) and numerous businesses along Canning St and Bridge St area.

I guess one problem is that the A41 is routed to the A554 down Canning St these day.

And I'll bet most of them have cars; that's the big difference.

Hence the plethora of car parks instead of buildings.

I've got to admit with bus fares and bus routes these days its not hard to choose between car or bus.

I have to say that when, occasionally, I come up for the day, I'm amazed at how comprehensive the bus services on Wirral seem to be. The idea of a service from Liverpool to West Kirby every 15 minutes is impressive. I've no idea about prices; I use my old farts' bus pass.

Refreshing to see the opinion of a fresh eye on the bus service. It is probably even better than you have observed Chris. Smaller buses go on the estates picking people up vertually from their front doors. We tend to moan about the things we take for granted, me included. It may not be perfect but I think we should recognise the fact we have an excellent bus service.

Heaven forbid that anyone should have to walk as far as a bus stop. eh? Best municipal transport I've ever come across was and is Berlin. Magnificent.

Agree on Berlin transport, amazingly simple and effective.

Ok, firstly I will admit its about 7 years ago since I examined the bus routes and things do seem to have improved. At that time I had a lot of long conversations with the bus co-ordinator about school routes. There was a ridiculous problem of kids getting left at bus stops because buses were full, and the kids were going backwards up the route further and further to try and get on the bus. He had no direct control over the bus companies, routes or bus stop locations, the bus companies did what they liked.

There are 19 different bus numbers go through the tunnel which sounds great but many of those services are splintered and what is the point of competing with trains - a bit more integration and coordination would be better.

The 420 and 437 go from West Kirby to Liverpool. Most of the day the 437 is every 10 minutes, the 420 happens once a day. A service that runs once a day in one direction only has got to be wrong.

There are no less than 29 bus numbers go past Woodchurch Bridge which to me is a sign of chaos.

The 473 goes from Barnston to Liverpool there are only three buses a day, all before 7am and no return. After 9pm the 472 (Liverpool-Heswall) is extended to go to Barnston (but no times on timetables).

Other councils have re-instated council bus services which to my mind is much better than multiple companies doing whatever they like and demanding disproportionate subsidies for routes they don't want. At the very least the council should set all routes and times then tender those routes out (possibly grouping quiet routes with busy routes to cover the less popular routes).

I've no gripes with the buses either. Don't use them a lot but find the Avon buses OK and a great price in the evening. Same with the little one that runs from Oxton to New Brighton.

Phil Davies has resigned at leader of Liverpool City Regional Combined Authority.

Reason given is to concentrate on Wirral.

Mmm , could something awkward be about to rear its head ?

I can never find the worry beads when they are needed.

New powers : The directly elected Mayor for Liverpool City Region Combined Authority will autonomously exercise new powers. The LCR Mayor will chair the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority.

Through devolution the region will also get £220.9 million from European funding. Just wondering how much will come to Wirral, apart fro the possible reductions in tunnel fees.

Liverpool City Region Devolution Agreement

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...5/Liverpool_devolution_deal_unsigned.pdf

£220.9m European funding plus £30m UK funding a year, sounds like a lot of investment but......

The LCR combined authorities have had cuts of £650m since 2010 and are anticipating further cuts of £470m up to 2020.

So we gain a mere £340.9m against a loss of £1120m by 2020.

We are getting thrown tiddlywinks to replace gold ingots basically.

What was the amount of collective reserves kept in the banks by the councils. Wirral £125m, Liverpool £250m, (or was, during the period mentioned. 2010 to 2014) Won't be now because they have had to use it instead of sitting on it. Shame! It was your money and every other council tax payers money.

Only about a quarter of those reserves are "free" reserves, the rest are earmarked. Note that "earmarked reserves" and "unusable reserves" are different.

The total usable reserves represent about 5% of the budget, running less than 5% would create a risk that would be unsupportable (just consider how many departments could over-spend compared to how many are likely to under-spend).

Digging into reserves is never a solution, what happens when the reserves run out?

Although I can't find the exact figure, I'm sure the council has a net debt, especially if you subtract their non-realisable assets from the equation (eg council buildings).

From what I can see, the council has a net debt of around £500m if you take property out the equation.

Liverpool's Mayor Joe Anderson has been appointed Chairman of Liverpool Combined Regional Authority replacing Wirral's Phil Davies.

A slightly different angle to this but to where have the promised 5,000 jobs evaporated ?

http://www.itsliverpool.com/commerce/shape-things-come/

The shape of things to come......all I can think is that Liverpool is likely to become the drug smuggling hub of Europe. Cargoes coming from Equador, Columbia, etc. is going to have a massive impact, and particularly on the transportation, which I don't believe is anywhere near suitable to carry the tonnage out of Liverpool. They had a whole new dual carriageway built for the Felixstowe cargo, even that ended up congested.