http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-14455814

this is getting scarey now....
just hoping it doesn't come over here..

Wonder why they didn't use rubber bullets or cs gas? Do the police has tasers yet?

On the "Today" programme (R4) this morning, they said there were no water cannon on the British mainland and the police didn't use rubber bullets/baton rounds.

One has to ask "Why not !!!" On the same programme they said that the use of troops on the streets hasn't been ruled out, as the police are overstretched. The sooner the better IMHO. Knowing this mamby-pamby country that won't happen unfortunately.

I do hear you pinzgauer, and i agree with you to an extent.
You gotta remember half of this are teenagers, theres laws that will not allow the police to use an effective means, there would end up getting done for child abuse or something stupid.

Its as hell.
Someone should be screaming at the parents "where were your kids last night?"
take the bloomin phones off them, keep them away from the internet, they're all just goading each other.

I know where my teenagers were last night, at home watching tv in utter disgust with us.

Just as everyone was thinking that at least we're not like the ... dahn sarf then they kick off up here, numpties. Bring out the old riot control methods that we used to do abroad and do it properly. Grab the ringleaders and the followers melt away. Why only rubber bullets, what's wrong with the real thing?

I think we are seeing the first results of the cuts. I'm no fan of how the Police behaves sometimes but slashing their numbers isn't the answer. Also, the devestating cuts to the Ambulance service, Fire Brigades etc must be reversed.
As for bringing in the Army, what Army? It's been cut and cut. And those still around are too busy fighting pointless wars overseas.

On a side issue, well done to this Facebook group for tidying up Smithdown Road. Good community spirit which is so sadly lacking these days.
Liverpool Clean Up

Why don't we have water cannons in Liverpool or, for that matter, London. It disperses the rioters quickly. And they must feel so uncomfortable with sodden, cold clothes on. During the Orange Order parade just weeks ago, the police used water cannons in Ireland. I wonder that, because they don't use deterrents here then can they be accused of inciting a 'police riot'? - and all the accusations of perpetrators being dismissed by our courts? Police presence at incidents could be interpreted as provocation and actually escalate the situation. We should take responsibility for riot control away from the police. They're not up to the job and shouldn't have to deal with riots anyway.

I suggest the formation of a new paramilitary brigade along TA lines. Members would mainly be ex squaddies who would be sworn in as special constables. Their mandate would be to use whatever force was necessary to stop riots quickly and efficiently, then withdraw and allow the police to resume control. The certain knowledge that any riot would be dealt with by 'shock troops' might have a deterrent effect. A riot is in effect a mini war and the priority should be to win it within hours, protecting (innocent) life and property and restoring the Queen's Peace. Such a force could also be trained in aspects of heavy rescue and disaster relief.

Sensible solutions there ponytail, the paramilitary police work on the continent and boy have they needed them now and again. Obviously we are now in the same state.

Water cannons aren't used in the UK because they are expensive and ineffective. I'm not sure they are even legal here tbh.

Same goes for rubber bullets, first sign of police shooting anything at kids in Liverpool would see the fire returned with live rounds.

It's just common sense really, you don't escalate a problem that can be sorted through safer means.

Bring back The Riot Act - five minutes to disperse or we come in shooting.

The BNP must be ecstatic.

Army is still here in their thousands in army bases. They're not all overseas.

Is this a black only riot?

Who needs water cannon? Just turn the fire hoses on them.

Lets just see what measures the PM brings in!

4 words. Send the army in.

What army,there all busy! This goverment will only use kid glove tactics.

Tear gas then

I think water canons arent used anymore due to the namby pamby blame culture in this country now - weeks after the event you could have rioters claiming for colds etc...

Not sure about them being ineffective and expensive They are just water and a pump They are also powerful enough to knock anyone close off their feet, and get those further away nice and wet and cold sending them home.

There are also no environmental effects as its just water

Yes the army is still here by the thousands, on bases all over the UK! Yes I think it would be a good idea to get our troops on the streets because they won't take any sh*t - especially when most of them have had to deal with the taliban etc...

As for the police - it doesnt help when the government has taken police officers off the street, and forced high position staff out of their job they know so well. It does seem as though the majority of the rioters are of black descent - but is this is because it's in promidently black areas or because the whites know better than to destroy their own community? I know some of them are white, but majority rules.

I find it quite ironic how the rioters are now saying that their doing it because the 'government doesn't give a **** about us young people' - and all the politicians have had to 'break' their holiday to come back (David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Theresa May...) is that to prove that they don't care - the fact they were all on holiday at the same time?

Personally speaking, I think it's wrong what they are doing, they've used a few instances with the police as an excuse to destroy town and people livelyhoods - that isnt acceptable.

I'm not sure what the PM could do when he returns back to Britain....what are his options really??

I say draft the Army in - and then give the country back to the Queen!

? rioters would encourage youths to join them so they would not be hurt by the police - that's like holding the police to ransom. The parents should be keeping their children away from this. If they don't then they should be charged with being corroborators and accessories to the rioting. They should not allow their children to become involved in danger - do kids understand how far the explosions from some petrol tanks can reach - would they be inquisite and wait and watch? Perhaps injuring themselves through their own ignorance (kids don't always think before they act) - would the rioters be bothered? - they would run away! So, who really cares about the kids? So, if the problem is not deal with quickly, the risks to injury of the rioters rises. I doubt very much talking to them would work. They are out for trouble and violence its not a controlled riot - they don't want to reason and be civilised. They probably don't even know what issues they are rioting for. A kid will be drawn to violence - its like having a real-life computer game played out in real time.

well heres a picture of the community trying to help in the clean up

I posted this in the B'head thread before I saw this;

I've just been up around Catherine Street area where the Tesco was ransacked. News crews are everywhere and the car park is just full of damaged cars. Someone has driven a Corsa into a load of parked cars and loads of windscreens are smashed in, tyres slashed, panels kicked in etc.

There's a huge police presence.

Auto Glass are there in force, as you would expect.

Police stopped me and advised against being in the area, intelligence suggests there's organised rioting for both tonight and tomorrow night and staying away is the best course of action.

As I was leaving, I pulled over to take a picture of a burnt out shell of a car on one of the side streets. A very scouse, rough looking woman came over to me and told me I shouldn't be parking my car there as the "it's about to go off".

It's about as first hand as it gets.

Also, there are teams of people out cleaning up, but from what I could see the police were trying to get them to leave it.

Reference the water cannons, as I understand it they are illegal on the mainland.

........ and we wouldn't want to be doing that to these law abiding citizens would we????

Bonkers isn't it.

just nuke the cnuts

Madness,i'm sure water cannons would be more effective,than police with battons!

Theres a mob gathered in Concert Square...

Source?

sure they r not just having a bevvie?

.

This is the sort of thing that ENCOURAGES people to go down there and check it out, then it becomes a riot.

I despair.

Oh where to start

Some people are saying that it's partly because of all the activities and community centres have been cut. When I was a kid (I can hear some of you groaning already), we didn't have community centres etc for during the summer holidays. We either played out in the fields, the woods or by our houses or we were savvy enough to be members of the likes of the Cadets (Sea Cadets for me), the Brownies, Guides (both for me), Cubs, Scouts etc. Even I was a member of a Sunday School that used to run camps in Wales at a cheap cost and we used to go there for a week. When we weren't doing activities through these establishments, we were making our own entertainment - legally!

None of these were funded by the Government. We had to pay minimal "subs" and were happy to do so. My Parents were not rich. We lived on a council estate, Mum had 2 jobs, Dad didn't work because he'd retired and was disabled having had one of his legs amputated (artificial legs weren't like they are today, they were evil nasty torture devices). We didn't have the "trendy" shoes & clothes like some of my friends at school and very often, I was one of the kids sat in the Art Block because they couldn't afford to pay for me to go on a school trip.

We didn't moan about it, we didn't riot, we didn't mug people for their posessions - we just got on with it.

So for them all to blame it on that is, in my opinion, a load of bollocks! To be saying that it's because they can't get jobs etc - bollocks! There's lots of people that can't get jobs and they behave in a law abiding manner. Some of you DID have jobs, although not for long in some cases (the silly girl caught looting in Currys, in her Currys uniform). Those of you who have been seen rioting and looting probably won't get jobs now because you've been seen on the tv being a total knobend!!

The parents of these feral failed abortions need to look at themselves!! Where were your kids last night? If they smell of smoke and have a new phone, playboxxstation3wiicube360DS, trainers or clothes then shop them to the Police!! It's the least you can do! After you've done that, learn how to be a decent parent!!

Watching the footage of the poor lad being mugged on Sky News has just knocked me sick - the parents of those involved must be SO proud!!

We should be allowed to use a water cannon, or similar. There are none on the mainland, but PSNI have them. The alternative is to use some RAF Fire Trucks!! Mix into the water a skin irritant and a permanent dye so that they can be rounded up at a later date!!

Call a curfew. If you're on the streets for no valid reason after a certain time, then you will get what you deserve! Nobody needs to be watching it all unfold, sit at home and watch it on tv if you're that bothered. If you're wearing a balaclava, gloves and scarf in August, at night then you're obviously up to no good so you should be pulled by the Police!!

I don't subscribe to this mollycoddling pc crap as most of you know. I'm tempted to modify my crutches and help the Police to help US, the law abiding citizens, take back OUR streets!!

This made me feel sick to the pit of my stomach!

Whereas this picture makes me smile and restores my faith in human nature!!

Smiley picture!

Go Wench!

antastic thats the real english spirit

I've got a few friends from uni who have pictures of cars on their streets on fire, luckily they're all at home now, but one of them is on Smithdown Road, could've been his car if this was one month later! I was going to move out to Liverpool a couple of weeks ago but decided to stay home, luckily for me :S

crimewarch will busy show

I agree wench. Im still in my early twenties but was brought up with respect for other people and their possessions. We did not have loads of money and couldnt afford to go out every day in the 6 weeks holiday but we made our own fun. we would be out the door as soon as we ate our breakfast we would be home for lunch and would be back out till it was time for tea. we made our own fun and just enjoyed being out we didnt feel like the world owed us just because we didnt have the best of everything. my bro is 22 and been made redundant 3 times and is always looking hard for a job he is honest hard working and he doesnt feel the need to terrorise the neighbourhood cos he feels the world owes him somethin

I try and tell myself the same thing. If you're a 1985er then that's mid 20's and you're nearly old!!

im only as old as the woman i feel haha

Liverpool One to shut early this evening over more riot and looting fears.

http://www.clickliverpool.com/news/...-shuts-early-over-riot-safety-fears.html

David Cameron - " I am granting the Metropolitan Police emergency powers to use water cannons, rubber bullets and tear gas to take back control of our streets from these poisoning parasites biting the hand that feeds them. In addition I am deploying the British Army as a visible presence to provide the authority that is so very lacking."

..........Carlsberg don't do Prime Ministers but if they did............

its been a long time comeing sadly, just hope the rioters see sense and the poice force grow a pair and kick ass, no more mr nice guy, bring in the army and give them something to protect our country for a change........

Well said, I agree bring the army in!

Police have now closed all the bars and clubs in Liverpool city center for tonight.
Both my boys were due in and i was totally but I'm now very relieved.

NATIONAL SERVICE NOW !!

where did u get that info was going to James St for a pint later

Instead of bringing the army to them, send them to the army.
A bit of potato bashing in Afghanistan might help them to realise their better place in life. I believe that if it was a possibility, they wouldn't even poke their noses out of their holes.
If they liked it, they could join up, if not, they would no doubt learn to behave in a civilised manner.

Both my boys work in Revolutions (in the City Center), the police went round all pubs & clubs and told them all they weren't allowed to be open tonight due to whats been happening.

I was popping over to meet some friends tonight, just phoned the pub were going to and they are open and not been tld to close

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-incident-map

good for you.

I assume the pub isn't directly in the city center then?
Cos all of Revolutions (all 3 bars) have been told to remain closed for tonight.

Don't take the debate up with me, I'm just repeating what Revs have said.
If you going anywhere near the city center tonight, good luck and I hope you stay safe.

No im not taking the debate up or having a go, I think its very responsible of Revolutions to close (A great bar by the way)
yes we are meeting on Victoria Road, im only back in the UK for two weeks then back out again so it would be a shame to miss my mates cos of these idiots1! Thank you I will try to stay safe

Here Hear.

i hope your 2 weeks aren't tainted by this crap puntoar.

if anyone has any worries or concerns for Liverpool tonight, you can watch The Echo's live news , which is linked with twitter etc.

some of these kids are only 10yrs old!what the hell are they doing out at that time of night? don't the parents care? obviousley not! we were always indoors as soon as it went dark, and so was my son when he was little.
being bored is no excuse, we all get bored but we don't go on the rampage, kids today don't know how to play.
i think they should be made to pay for the damage they have caused or the parents made to pay.
put them all on a plane to afganastan, let them go and fight a real war, see how brave they are then! but what will they get in this country-----a smacked hand and told not to do it again!
this is sickening!!!!!

Merseytravel Merseytravel
Good evening again (1920hrs) the latest information I have is that there is no #liverpoolriots related disruption to public transport.
http://twitter.com/#!/Merseytravel

Scotland Yard has ordered its officers to use every available force, including plastic bullets, to stop Britain's riots as London was flooded with 16,000 officers, the biggest police presence in the capital in history.

One army unit, the 3rd Rifles based in Glasgow, was also on put on notice so that it is ready to deploy at 12 hours' notice.

Any decision on using plastic bullets will be up to senior police officers. If used, it would be the first time they have been fired at rioters in the UK outside Northern Ireland. It forms part of a wider reversal of tactics by Scotland Yard following criticism of its response so far. Senior police sources told the Guardian on Tuesday that for the first three nights of trouble officers in London were told to stand by, watch and wait rather than actively seek to arrest rioters and looters. But after anger from the public – who witnessed officers seemingly doing little as youths ran unchecked, burning and looting– and Cameron's intervention, those orders were abruptly changed to leave officers free to tackle troublemakers in the act.

The subsequent rioting could cost taxpayers £100m, according to initial estimates by the Association of British Insurers, with police authorities facing the prospect of picking up insurance costs for damage done to properties across the country.

The Riots (Damages) Act 1886 specifies that where damage is caused by people "riotously and tumultuously assembled", local police authorities are required to compensate victims.

Source:http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-police-tough-lockdown?intcmp=239

At last, someone has seen sense.

about time, this should of happend yesterday

The squaddies from Glasgow won't mess about! Let's hope there's no mamby-pambying in calling them out. Live rounds, no if's no but's !
See you Jimmy.......BANG !

Apple Store in liverpool tonight:

Too true Pinzgauer. Probably did their 6 months NI service - no prisoners. Anyway, it must be more entertaining than sitting in barracks.

hi there,
now rioting has started in bhead charing cross on lock down argyle st south , round town netto getting to close for comfort

how much of it is not true tho x and all theses storys tho the day have givin people ideas so stupid

http://twitter.com/#!/merseypolice

not much on twitter

why would anyone rob netto's, it's only 10p for a tin of beans!

check the wirral globe facebook page - reporting gang of youths converging on birkenhead town centre

husbands a taxi driver he says its starting to kick off police car smashed up and roads blocked weather precaution not sure but sheer madness either way

there is some truth to it, the Wirral globe site has an article saying there is trouble in birkenhead.

[EDIT] didn't realise somebody already mentioned the globe, sorry!

Just run em over and get it over with ffs!

Just to destruct and inconvience people 'to make waves'.
Jokes and stereotyping aside- Netto in Seacombe is the place to go to buy day-to-day stuff like milk and bread.
People without cars cant just 'nip up' to ASDA.
Its not about 'robbing', just aimless, lawless anarchy.

Did that place find a buyer cos wasn't it under threat of closure since the takeover?

Thats it - Liverpool on Sky News, a couple of hundred throwing petrol bombs and bricks at police around upper parliament street....started about half an hour ago!

BBC just warned to stay away from Smithdown Rd

Yes they've said that on Merseyside Police twitter page too!

I think thats it for the evening now - going to bed. Sounds quiet outside.