It's coming to that date when we all remember the tragedy of world trade centre and the terrible loss of life. I watched a programme last night which I had not seen before. Lost Tapes of 9/11. It was chilling hearing people real conversations trying to figure out what to do, poor flight attendants on the hijacked planes, air control tower, U.S. Aur force dud not have a clue what to do. I was transfixed but of course I knew the tragic end to this story. Would recommend if anybody can get it , very revealing...
I watched the programme a few months ago, did you watch the one on just before it Cools? It was about the rescue of people immediately after the builings collapsed. The bravery of the men that went into the remains to search for surviors was outstanding.
Yes have watched that one before,incredible bravery. The firemen and police climbing those stairs and the horrible sounds i the poor people jumping from the building. Images and sounds which stay with you forever . Tragic!
Would be interested to know how many on here still have not heard about World Trade Centre Building 7 the third skyscraper to collapse in new york on 9/11. considering it would have been the tallest building in almost any other new york city it received very little coverage apart from the BBC Jane Stanley interview who is reporting it had collapsed--but ironically it is still standing behind her left shoulder. The live link suddenly is cut. It did collapse later.
Would be interested to know how many on here still have not heard about World Trade Centre Building 7 the third skyscraper to collapse in new york on 9/11. considering it would have been the tallest building in almost any other new york city it received very little coverage apart from the BBC Jane Stanley interview who is reporting it had collapsed--but ironically it is still standing behind her left shoulder. The live link suddenly is cut. It did collapse later.
wasn't the pentagon also hit by a 'plane' but it was too low to be a passenger liner and zero debris was recovered.
So Fish do you believe in the conspiracy theory of 9/11?
which one--- the one that 19 terrorists conspired together and hijacked 4 planes avoiding airport security, managed to fly around the most protected airspace for hours without interception, .In the case of the pentagon carry out a manouevre by a terrorist who had failed cessna training, that was impossible (according to pilots).--No i dont believe the official conspiracy narrative--Have spent years trying to.
Had the privilige of meeting and talking with the World Trade centre janitor William Rodriguez who was awarded a bravery medal by George Bush. William was in the trade centre at the time the first plane hit and testified that there was a huge explosion in the basement before the first plane hit. His workmate in the basement was severely injured by the explosion. When the authorities refused to listen he started to tell his story around the world. I helped organise meetings in Claughton and Liverpool where William spoke.
Tend to support the work of Architects and Engineers for 911 truth who want a fresh investigation into the cause of collapse, especially since explosives residue was found in the dust remains of all 3 trade centres that collpased. Several organisations including Professor Niels Harrit from copenhagen university analysed the dust and found traces of a substance nanothermite used in building demolition.The collapse of all WTC buildings have characteristics of controlled demolition rather than progressive collapse due to fires.
Thats just the tip of the iceberg.Yes there are a lot of different theories and finger pointing. I think what makes me doubt the official narrative of events is just watching over and over again the towers collapsing and coming to the realisation they are not collapsing but being systematically blown up.....
recommended viewing 911 Experts Speak Out produced by the Architects and Engineers for 911 truth.
You know a lot more than I do about 9/11 Fish but if all this is true why and who would go to such horrific lengths and want to kill all those people. for what reason?
New World Order - pit the Muslims against the Christians and Jews, wait for them to destroy each other and then take over.
All the recent invasions and attacks by western countries have achieved absolutely nothing apart from aggravating Muslims against Christians - it fits exactly into the New World Orders conspiracy theories. Which country has been driving this aggression, America, the land of the New World Order!
How many unfinished wars do you need to realise that things are being broken intentionally but nothing is getting fixed.
America is only backing down on Syria because the Russians have got involved who are trying to stabilise the country instead of de-stabilise it.
Give me one example of successful stabilisation that has been achieved where America have been involved - they just don't happen!
Ask any pilot of airliners if they could have hit the twin towers with the same rate of vertical decent these totally inexperienced terrorists achieved - its impossible. Its impossible to achieve as a pilot and its impossible for the airframe to survive the flightpath.
What happened to the airframe that hit the Pentagon, you will not find one single picture of it anywhere, it "disappeared", the wings didn't even hit anything. Have a search for yourself HERE
If the conspiracy is that the buildings had explosive in the basements, what is to say that terrorists were not the ones to plant explosives there ?. Someone must have, so it could have been terrorists and then one of these press button jobbies, to coincide with the planes flying into them. That seems quite feasible,.... doesn't it !
Following on with your post DD, what hit the pentagon , because it was attacked ?
Exactly Granny. Does this theory mean that the planes never went into the towers so the hundreds of people watching on the ground on on TV were fooled by some hologram or something?
Following on with your post DD, what hit the pentagon , because it was attacked ?
A missile of some sort, air or ground missile, something fairly small in diameter and relatively low weight - it hardly penetrated the pentagon, compare it to the penetration on the twin towers.
The bit that is a miracle is that the section of Penthouse it hit just happened to be EMPTY - not something that happens every day, it was being decorated or something!
And by amazing coincidence the protected airspace just "happened" to be EMPTY that day as well, the airforce was away on training or whatever - it is highly unlikely they would leave the airspace totally unprotected when they were on alert - the size of the USAAF they wouldn't have a problem getting cover.
On the Pentagon you can see unscorched paper and wood, not very realistic for an aircraft fuel fire, more like a low temperature flame ball they use in movies etc.
In that case, surely they could have said it had been hit by a missile. Next question, what happened to flight 77 and all the people on board, including children ? None of it makes sense apart from the fact that if an aircraft had gone into it, the Pentagon would not have allowed photographers to take pics, prior to removal of the aircraft, as it's a top secret place.
You know a lot more than I do about 9/11 Fish but if all this is true why and who would go to such horrific lengths and want to kill all those people. for what reason?
someone or somebodies obviously did kill all those people. There are people inthis world who think it politically or ideologically ok to kill to achieve their purposes. There are also things called false flag incidents whereby party a carries out something in order to blame it on party b. The pnac document (project for a new american century ) published just prior to 9/11 stated that in order to achieve its goals of US domination in key global areas the country would need something like a new pearl harbour in order to get the financial backing and the will of the people.9/11 certainly helped achieve some of those aims.of course that doesnt prove anything.neither do i buy george bush saying they attacked us because they hate our freedom.
The one thing which sticks in the mind, was George Bush's facial expression when told of the 9/11, sitting in a classroom full of children. He was surely not expecting that news and therefore was not part of any conspiracy. So who would be ?
The one thing which sticks in the mind, was George Bush's facial expression when told of the 9/11, sitting in a classroom full of children. He was surely not expecting that news and therefore was not part of any conspiracy. So who would be ?
Two things to that - on more than one occasion afterwards, George Bush claimed he saw the footage of the airplane hitting the first tower on a television at the school - there is only one film of that first hit and it wasn't televised until twelve hours later, furthermore, it is impossible on that footage to see an airplane.
The second thing is:- what was it that the Chief of Staff told him, it was supposed to be about the second hit but to me it looks more like something hadn't quite gone to plan, his face looks like he's thinking about excuses. The Chief of Staff spoke to Bush for 2 seconds, there is no way on earth that he could impart sufficient information in that time, try it, make up an sentence you would use and time it! It happens at 1 minute point.
Then Bush didn't do anything about it for 7 minutes, America was under attack (two attacks at this stage, four planes hijacked), his location was widely publicised, normally he would have been whisked off to a place of control and safety instantly and his body shields would have been around him.
I don't know what really happened but there are a lot of verifiable things that weren't just improbable or unlikely, they were impossible.
I'm sorry I don't get all this! Maybe I m being dense here but what about the firemen who were being interviewed for a documentary and suddenly everybody saw the plane hit the tower. The film was only shown 12hours later, eh...I saw that much earlier than that. As Mark says we all remember what and where we were when that was news broke. You will have to explain to me simply DD because as I say ,just don't understand where You're coming from.....
I'm sorry I don't get all this! Maybe I m being dense here but what about the firemen who were being interviewed for a documentary and suddenly everybody saw the plane hit the tower. The film was only shown 12hours later, eh...I saw that much earlier than that. As Mark says we all remember what and where we were when that was news broke. You will have to explain to me simply DD because as I say ,just don't understand where You're coming from.....
what dd is saying is that bush said he saw on a tv the first plane hit...well he couldnt have done because the firemen documentary being filmed by the naudet brothers which captured the first plane wasnt televised until the next day. What bush probably meant was he saw the plane that everybody else saw because by then main stream tv was filming the first tower.although it was the second plane it was the first being televised live.problem is not with what bush said but the fact he was left reading a kids book whilst he and his guards knew the nation was under attack.it doesnt actually prove anything but does seem odd behaviour.
Oh I'm sorry Fish and DD, it's all going beyond me. Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'll stick with the majority of people who do believe it was a terrible terrorist attack...
Me too Cools. We all know how films can be created, cut, fixed and anything else and that can work both ways. George Bush was such a fool he probably forgot he was President of USA at times. Some comments he made would indicate he suffered from loss of memory.
So far as the Pentagon is concerned, it was definitely hit. (inside information)
Little point in doing that if it was a conspiracy, they may just have well targeted another major building with a lot less importance as the reaction would have been exactly the same.
I'm sorry I don't get all this! Maybe I m being dense here but what about the firemen who were being interviewed for a documentary and suddenly everybody saw the plane hit the tower. The film was only shown 12hours later, eh...I saw that much earlier than that. As Mark says we all remember what and where we were when that was news broke. You will have to explain to me simply DD because as I say ,just don't understand where You're coming from.....
That was a documentary being made by the Naudet brothers, it wasn't live to air, the tape remained in the camera all day and was first aired around 1am on the 12th by Univision, more than 12 hours after the event.
There was a second video that just caught a glimpse of the North tower hit taken by Pavel Hlvana but that didn't surface until weeks later.
A third "video" is actually a sequence of stills.
There were numerous videos of the South tower strike from many different angles which were shown all day on the 11th.
Oh I'm sorry Fish and DD, it's all going beyond me. Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I'll stick with the majority of people who do believe it was a terrible terrorist attack...
No problems .. Everyone believes it was a terrible terrorist attack----question is who were the terrorists.
In my continued quest to help the Architects and Engineers for 9.11 truth and all the other people who want to know who and how explosives were planted in the 3 trade centre buildings brought down on 9.11, I come across news items that anger and frustrate me. So many first responders are still dying because the US EPA (equivalent to our Environment Agency) said the air was safe to breathe .
Prayer Cards Of 9/11 Leave Jon Stewart Stunned
A dying firefighter brought them to Washington to convince politicians they really should never forget.
Michael McAuliff Senior Congressional Reporter, The Huffington Post
12/06/2015 10:42 am ET
WASHINGTON -- When Jon Stewart and a group of 9/11 responders walked the halls of Congress this past week hoping to get commitments from senators to pass a permanent 9/11 bill, what they mostly got were business cards.
For Ray Pfeifer, a veteran of the New York City Fire Department with stage 4 cancer, those cards didn’t mean much. He threw them away. And he didn’t have them to show for a camera crew later when Stewart wanted to demonstrate what passes for commitment in Washington.
But Pfeifer had other cards that he pulled from his jacket on Thursday afternoon in the Hart Senate Office Building. He thought they better illustrated what commitment meant to the people who answered the call of duty on Sept. 11, 2001.
They were funeral prayer cards -- laminated versions of the Mass cards that are often given out at Catholic services for the dead.
“They’re called remembrance cards because they’re all faiths,” Pfeifer told HuffPost from his home Saturday as he rested up for what he hopes will be a final week pushing to pass a new 9/11 law. “Most of the time, you’d only get a prayer on it, but during 9/11, they put faces on it, too, because they wanted to remember.”
Pfeifer has about 50 of them. Most, he leaves in his uniform pocket as a sort of personal memorial to the hardest time in his life.
“I do carry one with me all the time, my friend, Mike Otten,” Pfeifer said. Pfeifer met Otten when he joined the same West Side Manhattan firehouse in 1987. Otten was last seen on video footage heading into the complex underneath the twin towers.
Pfeifer hadn’t been on duty that day, and got to ground zero after the towers fell. He remembers how Otten's 11-year-old son asked him if they would ever find his dad, and how months on the pile searching for Otten and the others lost that day nearly destroyed Pfeifer.
“I almost lost my family,” he said. “I never went home. I went to wakes, I went to the firehouse, and went back to dig. I never saw my kids, except when my wife brought them. She's a saint.”
“I was a drunk. I’m not a drinker, but I was then,” he said. “It’s how I coped. Drink to go to sleep. Find somebody’s finger or skull, and try to bury it by drinking.”
He got through it, and he counts himself as lucky, despite his yearslong battle against cancer in his kidneys, bones and lymph nodes.
Like other 9/11 firefighters who survived -- for now -- Pfeifer is well-versed in gallows humor, and could chuckle when he said, “It’s like when I was a kid, I had a baseball card collection. Now I have this.” The Huffington Post
His collection keeps growing. He added his former fire department friend Randy Wiebicke in 2011.
He collected another friend, firefighter Greg Chevalley, last April. Marci Simms, a former police officer Pfeifer met at a memorial not very long ago, joined the grim collection just last month. They all died of 9/11-linked cancer, just like Pfeifer will.
The solemn expressions on the faces of the other first responders with Pfeifer in the Hart building when he took the cards out said they knew exactly what they were. The media people hadn’t seen them before.
“Ah, Jesus,” said Stewart, as Pfeifer fanned out the stack of people he’d known. “They’re cards of his friends.”
One card Pfeifer doesn’t have is that of James Costello, a department battalion chief whose cancer claimed him just before Thanksgiving. Pfeifer couldn’t make the funeral on Wednesday because he was in Washington trying to convince lawmakers to finally pass the new 9/11 health and compensation law to replace the one that began expiring in September. "I would have been at Jimmy's funeral if I wasn't down there," Pfeifer said.
Stewart arrived Thursday to raise the pressure, especially on congressional leaders who have refused to bring up for a vote a 9/11 bill that already has been sponsored by majorities in the House and Senate.
Instead, leaders have pledged to attach some version of new health and compensation legislation to a larger bill, most likely the massive omnibus spending package that must pass next week to keep the government open. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) made that promise to responders soon after Stewart showed up.
“When they say, ‘Never forget,’ sometimes you’ve got to call them out on it,” said Pfeifer on Thursday.
He doesn’t use his cards to remember. For him, forgetting isn’t possible. For him, it’s more about the future, and a nudge to do what he can for 33,000 ailing Sept. 11 responders.
“It’s just a reminder of what’s going to happen to me, eventually,” Pfeifer said, referring particularly to the new additions. “It’s a little harder to look at those.”
He hopes it’s a little harder for Congress to look away.
Some light reading over Xmas for the scientific amongst us.
The Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, apart from some excellent dvds have published a very professional glossy brochure which is now free on an e-version called Beyond Misinformation.
The review committee are not your normal "tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists"
Review Committee
Beyond Misinformation was vetted by a committee of respected architects, engineers, and researchers. •Sarah Chaplin is an architecture and urban development consultant in the United Kingdom and a published author of many books and articles on urbanism and cities.
•Dr. Mohibullah Durrani is a professor of Engineering and Physics at Montgomery College in Maryland with decades of experience in the nuclear, automotive, and printing industries.
•Richard Gage, AIA, is an architect of 27 years and the founder and CEO of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth. He has worked on most types of building construction, including numerous fire-proofed, steel-framed buildings.
•Dr. Robert Korol is a professor emeritus of Civil Engineering at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada and a fellow of the Canadian Society of Civil Engineering.
•Dr. Graeme MacQueen is the co-editor of the Journal of 9/11 Studies and a retired professor of Religious Studies and Peace Studies at McMaster University in Ontario, Canada.
•Robert McCoy has been a licensed architect in California since 1964. Most of his experience has been in steel-framed high-rise buildings, including the 34-story PG&E headquarters and the 44-story Standard Oil headquarters in San Francisco.
•Dr. Oswald Rendon-Herrero, P.E., is a professor emeritus of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Mississippi State University and an associate editor of the ASCE’s Journal of Performance of Constructed Facilities.
I'll have a read of that when I find time. Hopefully it will destroy some of the myths that appear.
The three things that make me highly suspicious of 9/11 are the flight-path/control/speed of the planes that hit the twin towers, the hole in the pentagon missing any wing damage and the underbelly of the 2nd south tower plane.
The aberrations on the buildings immediately before impact can mean very little as video compression produces anomalies like that. Unfortunately many commentaries use this as proof but a lot of people in video editing come across this problem of ghost movements caused by compression software which all digital video cameras use.
Strange documentary, there were FOUR World Trading Centres buildings that collapsed, World Trade Centre 3 also collapsed as it interconnected the North and South towers.
Also World Trade 7 centre took SIX minutes to collapse, not ten seconds as claimed in the documentary.
Gave up watching the video after those inaccuracies, another day perhaps.
What is more remarkable is that these buildings were built to be highly resilient to earthquakes, the North tower had previously survived a substantial fire damaging six floors in 1975 and the basement bombing in 1993 which severely damaged five floors.