Hi All,

I can't believe I've only just found this excellent site, crammed full of knowledgeable people.

For some reason I've always wanted to know what Woodchurch Road looked like before the Woodchurch interchange with the M53 motorway was built.

I've been fascinated with this image of the junction as it was under construction. It really shows what a huge undertaking this oversized junction was.



I know it's a long shot, but does anyone know of any photos showing this area, before the M53 existed?

On a similar note, I would love to see any photos of Woodchurch village, before it was engulfed by the estate.

Despite searching the Internet, I've not managed to find any old photos of these areas.

On some unrelated questions (sorry I have so many!), I live just off Borough Road, Birkenhead - Does anyone remember the Happy Valley pub, and the fact that Borough Road was previously called Happy Valley Road? I wonder why and when it was renamed Borough Road. Also, did trams used to run down it?

Also has anyone heard of Chatsworth Park or know anything at all about it? (existed in Victorian times I believe), but was built over in part by Woodville Road/Briardale Road.

Thanks for any possible info on any of the above (I have even more questions, but that's more than enough for one post),

Cheers, Paul

Hiya Paul and welcome.

My reply is not much help to you, I'm afraid, but I am interested in the Chatsworth Park part of your question as I was brought up in Woodville Rd in the 50's and 60's and this is a new one on me. Was it at the top or the bottom end? I remember the Happy Valley well (opposite the library) but I am pretty sure that no trams ever ran along Borough Rd. There are plenty of knowledgeable local historians on here so I am sure that you will be enlightened before too long.

Hi Paul and welcome to the site! I haven't any photos of the area pre-motorway, but I used to live nearby. Remember the upheaval during the construction. If it's any help, Woodchurch Rd followed roughly the alignment of the "new" overbridge. From the railway bridge it was a short distance to a concrete bridge (built in the '30's) over the Fender (great playground). A few yards further on was a full-sized roundabout, with no roads leading off ! This was built in the '30's to link up with a "Mid Wirral Road". This was never built, but the roundabout stayed in situ until the M53 came along. There was a small by-pass to the south side of the roundabout. This was the last remaining length of the original pre 1930's Woodchurch Road. Nowt more than a lane really. Hardly used at all.

Proceeding along Woodchurch Road, on the left was the original turn off on the left of Landican Lane (no trace left). Then came the UCLA Laundry on the RH side. Nowt then until the kink left in Woodchurch Road (foot of climb to Arrowe Park Gates). On the outside of the "kink" was the start of Pool Lane. This led directly to Woodchurch Village.

I think old air photographs and of course old OS maps are your friends on this one Paul. I'm sure someone a bit more computer savvy than I will be able to display some pics.

Yes, trams did run down Borough Road as far as Prenton Rd West. Up Prenton Road West, terminating just short of the junction with Storeton Road (?)

There's a thread somewhere on here re: Happy Valley Pub. A couple of questions answered maybe, but hopefully other folk will chime in on this.

Never heard of Chatsworth park myself, Paxton (Birkenhead Park) started his working life at the Duke of Devonshires estate, Chatsworth, there may be a link.

And now the whole scene has been ruined by yet more bloody traffic lights.
I now have four sets of traffic lights just to get from my house on the Woody to the southbound M53

And at 5.30am they are all on RED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wirral Borough Council getting back-handers from the traffic light manufacturers ??? What ARE you suggesting ??

Thanks very much all for the welcome and the replies.

That is a great description of Woodchurch Road pre-M53, Pinzgauer.
Admittedly, I had forgotten that even before the motorway, the Fender still had to be crossed of course! Thanks for reminding me of that.

To be honest I'm not sure if I will find such photos of that particular area from that era, because when I look at old Wirral photos, they usually have some subject e.g. "Birkenhead Woodside railway terminus" or "Mother Redcaps" for example, but can't imagine many photographers going out and just photographing some relatively (at the time) unimportant road, surrounded by fields.

My interest in the area was piqued by my father (who died two and a half years ago). Although it's something of a cliché, he did always used to point out to me that he remembered when the whole area was just fields. He'd lived and worked all over the Wirral.

To detsi & bert1, regarding Chatsworth Park - some of my colleagues where I work in Liverpool found a website a few years back which had old historical maps of Liverpool on it.

If I remember correctly, one of these maps extended to Birkenhead, but alas I no longer have the map available.

Anyway, on this map, what is now the A552 Borough Road was marked as "Happy Valley Road", which made immediate sense to me as a child of the '70s and '80s I do have vague memories of the eponymous pub.

The entire area bounded by Woodchurch Road, Borough Road, Carlton Road and Glover Street was marked as "Chatsworth Park". This was before Woodville Road and Briardale Road were built (so before 1897). Apart from learning that Carlton Road and Glover Street predate Woodville Road and Briardale Road, it was interesting that this area appeared to be called "Chatsworth Park" on that map. Apart from that, I don't yet have any further information on it.

Further to this though, I later got my hands on an even earlier map which really was quite fascinating as it predated even Happy Valley Road. Again, I no longer have this one to hand, but if I rememeber rightly, it may have had a brook or stream running down part of what is now Borough Road, which makes perfect sense since it is of course effectievly running along the bottom of a small valley.

On that earlier map it also appeared that the Birkenhead end of Woodchurch Road was a main arteriel route out of town then as Borough Road did not exist.

I've taken about 10,000 photos over the last couple of years (Many of them in the Wirral), extending from North Wirral, right down to Shotwick, Saughall, Chester, Mollington, Stoak, Ellesmere Port etc... So even places just outside Wirral.
As I'm a long-distance hiker, I tend to walk all over the place with my cheap compact camera. Particularly I like to photograph things that change. So perhaps, some of my photos may be of interest to people asking similar questions in the future.

Then again, we do have Google Street view nowadays, so not many places remain unphotographed I'd imagine.

hi and welcome have you tried 20thcenturyimages there are some old photos of the woodchurch so you never know

Welcome to the WikiWirral machine Paul.

Thanks both for the further welcomes.

I've just visited that 20thcenturyimages site, and I have to say it's absolutely superb.

Already I've seen some images of the then brand-new Woodchurch Estate.

Also some excellent rural photos of late 19th century Raby and Raby Mere.

(I'm also very interested in the Liverpool stuff too, as I do a lot of walking around Liverpool).

So thanks for the pointer, I've bookmarked the site and I'll be looking at it in a bit more depth soon, Cheers.

Can't get the link to work



Search Again/Refine Search Back to Catalogue Home Page
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Showing record 247 of 839. LocalStudiesReference 405195

Title Cheshire. Sheet XIII 7
Edition 1st

Citation Ordnance Survey

Abstract Bebbington Parish, Woodchurch Parish, Bidston Parish, Birkenhead township, Claughton cum Grange township, Tranmere township, Higher Tranmere, Tranmere Park, Chatsworth Park, Clifton Park, Shrewsbury Park, Gas Works, Springhill Water Works, Tranmere Water Works, Birkenhead Union Workhouse, Happy Valley Road, Birkenhead Railway, Old Chester Road, Tranmere Hall, Woodchurch Road, Malvern Lodge, Claughton Hill, Oxton Hall, Oxton Nursery, Birkenhead Union School, St Catherine's School, St Luke's Church, The Valley Lodge, Oxton township, Clifton Park, Tranmere Park, Arno Hill, St Mark's Church, Wirral Hospital, Holthill Covent, Christ Church, Oxton Hall, The Hermitage, Wesley Chapel, Taylor's Delph, St Andrew's Mission School

Period 1870, 19c

HeldAt Cheshire Record Office

Size 1:2500 ( 25 inch )

LibFormat Maps

Notes Surveyed in 1881



First record Back 10 records Previous record Record: 247 of 839 Next record Forward 10 records Last record

Click here to print

Thanks bert1 for finding the above Ordnance Survey directory mentioning "Chatsworth Park", it's great to actually see it listed there.

I found a small low-resoultion section of the 1876 OS map on the old-maps website which shows Chatsworth Park here, right between Glover Street and Carlton Road:-



As we know, Chatsworth Park didn't make it into the 20th century because of the building of the terrace houses in the 1890s.

So beyond the OS maps, it's been long forgotten about it seems!

...according to Hilda Gamlin in her book 'Memories - Or The Chronicles Of Birkenhead' (1892), she described The Happy Valley as '...the most rural spot in the locality'. Adding that 'the name meant all it suggests, a lovely vale with primroses covering the banks, the wild violets and woodbine so profuse that a stroll in the early dewy morning enabled one to secure a graceful decoration for the breakfast table. Honey-suckle, wild roses and blackberries followed in seasonable succession. I made a beautiful and varied collection of butterflies, captured among the thistles which thickly abounded. What a lovely rendezvous wherein to picnic; wild flowers to collect, bird's nests to seek, mushrooms to gather'.

She then goes on to say that 'a running stream (which went by the name of "the Rubicon" at this point) meandered along the exact course now known as "the Borough Road", until it reached the vicinity of the Central Station of to-day...'.

Brings a tear to the eye doesn't it?!!

The 1970's aerial view (tab on right-hand side) on the e-mapping site:

Clicky

also shows the M53 road under construction, but you can compare with the Tithe/OS maps alongside as to what was there before.

Might help a bit?

Cheers
Billy

With regard to trams on Borough Rd., here's a picture of on e at the junction of Borough Rd. & Prenton Rd. East/West. The house in the background is the first one in Prenton Rd. East & the photographer was standing where the Prenton Park pub would later be.

Thanks all for the further interesting replies.

That was a very poetic description of the area by Hilda Gamlin! It is absolutely amazing how things have changed since then, and sadly how much was lost.

I had a look at the 70s aerial views over Birkenhead, it's great how that site lets the user zoom in so much for free. Until now, I didn't know a 1970s set existed for this area - I thought it was just done in the Google Earth era, so that's a good find. Great view of a passenger ship docked at Liverpool on there too! Perhaps an Irish ferry or something (I'm not sure TBH).

Great picture of the Borough Road tram, thanks for that. It's the first time I have ever seen a tram displaying "Borough Road" on it.

I once saw an old photo of some destroyed buildings on Borough Road which had been bombed in WWII. I remember on the photo seeing what looked like tram lines running along the road, but I was never sure if that was the case, or even if tram services had eneded by WWII. In any case, now we know clearly there was a tram service (presumably pre-war) and it's really good to see some direct evidence of it.

I also remember reading in either the "Birkenhead News" or "Wirral Globe" around the early '90s where it was stated as part of the ill-fated "Merseytram" scheme, trams would be running through the Queensway tunnel by 1998. Alas it never worked out like that, just wish I kept the cutting of it, as that small article always stuck in my mind.

As for the Woodchurch Interchange, on those 1970s aerial photos, you can clearly see the path of the old Landican Lane, before it was diverted away from the junction. It's very clear, when compared with the 1876 OS map in the left-hand window.

I was surprised that when I opened up Google Earth, I could also just about make out the course of the old Landican Lane running across the field (appears as a slightly darker band) even on present-day photos.

The 1970s view also shows how Woodchurch Road was kept open to traffic during the construction of the junction, with vehicles actually using the slip roads before the main centre section was put in place.

More things worth seeing on the 1970s overhead views:-

New Brighton pier and landing stange are still there.

The number of ships in the docks and at Cammel Lairds on the Wirral side.

You can see a ferry at Woodside landing stage and two at Seacombe.

The sheer number of rail lines around the docks and the number of goods wagons just lying around in sidings.

The construction of the new Birkenhead Market and the buildings along Borough Road (like what is now the TJs building).

Grange Road before pedestrianisation and when it ran uninterrupted right though to Argyle street.

Rendel street branch of Queensway tunnel - what looks like toll booths still remaining.

Kingsway tunnel and approach. Toll booths are there, but not opened yet? No traffic on the appproach. Looks like construction still in progress.

I'm sure there are loads more interesting things on those photos.

Well spotted Paul. Quite right. The original alignment went from a bend at the trees, straight across the field to Woodchurch Road by the new** gas compound. A few yards away from where the compound is now, was a large cast iron green painted cabinet. It had a sign "North Western Gas Board" on it. There must have been a clockwork chart recorder or similar inside as there was always a loud ticking from within. Funny the things you remember.

Another thing that got the chop from that area at the time were the old mercury vapour street lamps. Huge cubic glass lanterns. The old mercury tubes weren't colour corrected and made you look like death on a bad day ! You could see all the veins in the back of your hand. Yuk !

** "new" as in 30 years ago. ha.ha.

Paul; just to put a few dates in for you. Kingsway tunnel opened in June 1971. Trams ran until 1937, but no doubt the tracks were there long after. Map of the tram system attached. There are some good pictures of Birkenhead here:
http://www.20thcenturyimages.co.uk/trolleyed/4/22/wirral-birkenhead%281%29.html

Thanks yet again for digging up this further info, Chris. It's very interesting to see a map of the Birkenhead Tram network in its heyday.

Well I must say, my questions have been answered in greater detail than I ever could've imagined.

A big thank you to all on the thread.

Have to say I've now become addicted to using that site with the 1970s aerial photos on it. It's great to scroll around the Wirral on maximum zoom and where there's a building (Arrowe Park Hospital for example) or a road (Upton Bypass) that we all now take for granted, there are just fields there. Virtually the whole M53 is under construction on those photos. Been looking at J5 Hooton too. Really wish we had a 1940s or 1950s equivalent too of these photos - that would be great, but I don't think they exist.

I should post more of my (bit obscure and off-the-wall) questions soon if I get round to it, I'm just taking advantage of the fact that I'm off work this week and so have a few hours spare here and there - normally I'm too busy to check these things out in any depth. Cheers!

Hi Paul
If you go to the doctors surgery by Arrow Park gates you will find on the walls pictures of the old buildings of Woodchurch. I remember the old village built on the site now occupied by Meadowside school. I think I have a photo of the post office on pool lane on an old hard drive. I will post it (forgive the pun) if I find it.

from www.old-map.co.uk

Right click to view image bigger. Think this covers J3/M53.

I can see my house from here !!!!

Hi Lazzah, thanks for the info, that's great. I look forward to seeing the photo if you happen to dig it out.


Thanks finding that for the map, Snooze. Yes, that's right where the junction is now. I saved a copy of the zoomed in version.

It's great to see this, from before when the M53 construction even started. I see the aforementioned "roundabout to nowhere" is on there and also of course the original alignment of Landican Lane.

Other things of interest include Prenton Bridge, the "laundry", the clay pit and the non-existence of many roads in the Durley Drive area. Cheers!

I found some old images of Woodchurch here:-
http://www.oldwirral.com/woodchurch.html

Pretty interesting site - it also has some old maps of WWII bomb damage around Birkenhead.

sorry if off topic

http://www.oldwirral.com/woodchurch.html


Dr Frick is a wiki member
Was looking at the bomb maps part and it reminded me of a friend telling me
in Cleveland Street there are some billboards and no-one is allowed to build on the land behind them because several people were killed there by a bomb and for some reason the bodies were never recovered
Can anyone confirm or say otherwise please

Hi - old-maps website has got a lot more user friendly these days - they used to make it really difficult to get a good close-up of things without you paying first

I've managed to track down one photo of the area before the interchange was built. It clearly shows the roundabout built in the 1930s that other posters have mentioned. I suspect the roundabout was actually built there because early outline plans for the Woodchurch Estate (which was conceived in the late 1920s) envisaged housing being built on both sides of Woodchurch Road - the roundabout was to link with the access roads onto the estate on either side of the road.

Excellent Marty, that roundabout looks flatter than i remember it, maybe some years later shrubs and bushes grew on it.

Great pic! Sometimes this site feels like a time machine!

Good one Marty. It's spot on with the Memory Dept. The original Woodchurch road by-passing the roundabout. Also shows one of the mercury vapour streetlights.

Woodchurch Road seemed a little quieter then ??

Thanks for that.

Thanks very much, marty99fred for finding and posting this excellent photo! The resourcefulness of this site continues to amaze me.

I have an A4 photo frame here which contains several photos of Wirral stacked up behind each other, and every now and again I bring another one out to the front. For the last few months it has contained a photo of round bales of hay in a field near Chapel House Lane, Puddington which I took myself, but seriously I want to put this Woodchurch Road photo in there next! It's certainly an interesting talking point.

As previously mentioned, I'm astonished and of course very glad that someone did actually go out that day long ago and bother to photograph this stretch of road.

Interesting points about the original plans for the Woodchurch estate spanning both sides of the road. I never knew that. It doesn't surprise me though, but when walking down Landican Lane not too long ago as one chap on horseback said "Good Afternoon" to me, it really brought home to me the fact that Woodchurch Road itself at that point completely deliniates a truly rural setting from a suburban one. I'd often felt privileged that we can visit Landican village and there is not a housing estate there. Nice walk down to Little Storeton village too. I do wonder what sort of pressures are on the Landican area for future housing projects. I'm not aware of any, but I have always felt that Landican village is somehow lucky to survive being surrounded (roughly speaking) by Prenton, Woodchurch and Thingwall.

Thanks again for the photo. Seriously, I'm made up with that, cheers!

I'll see if I can get hold of some copies of the early Woodchurch Estate plans and post them, as it's fascinating to compare them with what was eventually built after the War.

Thanks very much for any possible further images, indeed this is very interesting to me.

I've just been studying the above photo further. As Pinzgauer mentioned, the even older Woodchurch Road can be seen bypassing the roundabout and matches exactly the old OS map previously posted here by Snooze. Great to see the original "country lane" that has now become a four-lane highway.

The enbankment and part of the bridge of the Borderlands railway line can also be seen.

Looking at the shadow cast by the lampost suggests to me that the photograph may have been taken around mid-morning I think, but certainly before lunchtime. I only notice things like this because I hike around the area a lot.

You can make any road look quiet even now. Look at this, the A41 from Rock Lane East, Rock Ferry.


I took it a year ago, early on a Sunday morning. Perhaps the Woodchurch Road one was also taken on a Sunday? In any case I do agree the road probably is more busy now than it was then. Cheers!

Here's another interesting thing about the Woodchurch Road photo, the vantage point seems quite high up, as if the photographer had climbed up something, but what exactly, I guess we'll never know.
It's not apparently taken from ground level though, if I didn't know better I'd say it was taken from a bridge, but there was no bridge at that position according to the maps we have.

EDIT: Then of course there is the bicycle in the foreground, the photographer's bicycle, perhaps? I'd love to know the story behind the photo!

EDIT: It's also difficult to tell, but on the right-hand side of the photo, you can just about make out a row of houses. I think they are behind the railway enbankment but not 100% sure. I'm guessing that would be Kenmore Road and apparently Durley Drive did not exist when this photo was taken, although I'm sure someone would correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes Paul, I agree. I think the row of houses visible beyond the railway embankment would be the backs of the houses in Kenmore Road. I lived in Ennerdale Rd. The building with the chimney looks as if it was the old waterworks pumping station in Prenton Dell Road - demolished late '60's (?).

"Somewhere", I've seen a series of elevated photos taken of the start of works on the Woody estate. I'm sure these were taken from the top of either a Crosville or corpy tree lopping bus (open top) as the guardrail is in one of the pics. (Real memory trawling now!) I suspect the roundabout picture was taken at the same time. It's about the right height for the photo to be taken from.

Yes, Landican Village has withstood the onslaught of the developers right enough. Let's hope it stays that way. Ditto Storeton Village.

An isolated pair of cottages (it's actually a semi I think) were still standing in Landican Lane last time I was up there. As youngsters out on long walks, we would knock on the LH door and ask for a glass of water ! The old couple (everyone was old then) would gladly bring out said glass of water, sometimes lemonade and also a biscuit. Try THAT nowadays !

The Home Farm, Landican was owned by a Mr Duncan (?) who was a magistrate. If he saw you on his land, he or one of his flunkies would be after you with a tirade of abuse. Slightly different from the couple mentioned just down the lane.

Previously posted photos of pristine buildings as built, from the 1951 Birkenhead Official Guide.

pinz,you are right with mr duncan, his name is miles duncan,my company has been delivering building materials to him for a few years now,his mother lives in one of the small cottages on the other side of the road

I've hiked quite a bit around Landican. Fortunately, I've never been shouted at yet, but as a (hopefully) responsible adult, I'm very careful to stick strictly to public rights of way and never would deliberately tresspass.

Having said that, there is one footpath starting from a stile on the corner of Barnston Road and Landican Lane which quite honestly it's not obvious which way it goes once you get into the second field. The first time I walked it, I didn't have my OS map on me and I think I did inadvertently stray a bit off it, so I just got straight back onto the main Landican Lane as quickly as possible!

I also tend to only walk the Lane during weekends nowadays. Last year, I was off work one week and I walked it during a morning weekday rush hour. There were that many vans and cars coming down the lane, I did start to wonder where they were all coming from. It's as if the road was being used as some sort of commuter's shortuct. Of a weekend it seems to remain quiet though, with the usual assortment of joggers, cyclists, dog-walkers and the occasional tractor.

Also interesting pont, Pinzgauer about the open top buses. I have to agree with you the height looks exactly right for that on the roundabout photo. i.e. it's considerably higher than a person standing up, but a bit lower than a bridge would be- it is upper deck of a bus height.

I'm glad you mentioned the Prenton chimney, I was about to ask what it was, certainly it no longer exists.

Also, they are nice photos, bri445 - really looks quite idyllic, some sort of utopian paradise - certainly light years away from the social problems of the 80s etc..

Landican, i wonder if they got married.

The photo was probably taken by the Borough Engineers Dept, who at that time would have had access to the tower wagons used for maintaining the overhead tram wires - it was probably taken from the top of one of them. Liverpool City Engineers photographs contain lots of photos taken from similar elevated viewpoints, together with others that actually show the tower wagons in use.

Good point !

Indeed, that's that explained then, thanks for the further info!

Here's a couple of items from the 1947 Plan. First is a plan for the development of Woodchurch. Second is a plan showing proposed land uses.
1= Proposed permanent agriculture
2= Proposed residential
3= Proposed industrial
4= Proposed public open space

From this we can see that Durley Drive was going to be housing & industrial development on the other side of the railway (but separated from housing by public open space). It's significant that the whole of the Landican area was to be kept as farmland.
The new Woodchurch Rd. roundabout is shown & the line of what is now the M53

Thanks very much Chris, that's very interesting. I like where it says "Permanent Green Belt" on the upper map.

It is good to see even then that the decision was made to keep some green spaces, or perhaps that land was no good for building on!