Hi

I would be grateful if anyone can update me on the Great Eastern pub and if it has been listed yet?

Cheers

Yes and No, it has been allocated number 263 on the index but nobody has put anything up yet.

The pub is up for grabs at £300000, I reckon they will take £200000 if someone offered. The planing permision for flats was turned down.

When the council visited, they said there was none of the "great eastern" ship parts left in the pub, is this so?

Hi Diggin

Thanks for this information it is appreciated. I thought that the building itself contained timbers etc from the ship when it was scrapped, as possibly was the case for other building in the area? There may have been some artefacts from the ship in the pub?

I am pleased to see the building listed as the pub has a connection with Brunel the man who built the most advanced ship in the 19th Century. It was 40 years ahead of its time and it was only bettered by the Titanic, built at Cammells.

Many think the Great Eastern was jinxed? It Broke Brunel's finances and his health, he had a stroke on board her a few minutes after having that iconic photo taken, where he is standing by the chains.

I am trying to determine when the pub was actually built any help would be appreciated.

Cheers

One little more gem ... the pub was called "The Great Eastern Picnic Hotel"

I assumed it would have been built just after the breakup of the Great Eastern, but the hotel existed in 1882.

RMS Titanic was built by Harland and Wolff, Belfast, and designed by Thomas Andrews

Hi

Diggin thanks for the date, about 8 years before she was scrapped? Oh and bert thanks for pointing that out about Harland and Wolff. I seem to have Cammell Lairds on my mind lately!

Once again thanks everyone.

Sorry, I forgot I left this open ended.....

June 6th 1867 refers to H Mills' Great Eastern recreation Ground

June 10th 1867 refers to "Mills' Great Eastern Hotel" and " The Great Eastern Hotel Pleasure Grounds, Tea Gardens &c
"
July 26 1871 the Great Eastern Picnic Hotel was advertising for a musician to play the Cornopean.

It was also known as "Mills' Great Eastern Picnic Hotel" when it was up for auction in 1877

There is also mention of it having a large ballroom that can accomodate 200 persona.

The Great Eastern Hotel was built in 1865. Here is a pic as it was in 1912.


More at www.newferryonline.org.uk

Over Christmas, I spotted two surveyors outside the Great Eastern with measuring equipment taking readings. I didn't approach them at that time. This Wednesday (24th Feb), a colleague of mine was walking past the former pub when a group of people came out of the door. She politely asked them what they had been doing inside, and was given the gleeful reply; "Its being demolished love, for housing". !!!!

Eeek! Here we go again!! Cllr Steve Niblock has already checked, and as yet there is no new planning application in so we are none the wiser as to who these people are. The building is not listed nor is it protected in any other way, so we are deeply concerned that it could be lost. The previous planning application for housing on the site 18 months ago was rejected by Wirral Council as being too bland for such an important site. To our knowledge, the previous application's rejection was not contested/appealed.

It would be a tragedy if the Great Eastern should be lost, as it is the only distinctive building of its type on the eastern side of the bypass in this area. I have already asked about whether we can apply to have the Great Eastern listed, but have been told by some planning colleagues of mine (where I work in Liverpool City Council) that it is unlikely that we would be successful in getting it listed. Apparently we would have stood more of a chance if the original artefacts stripped from the Great Eastern ship and put into the pub in the 1860s were still there, but they have long since gone - unfortunately.

Suggestions please as to where we should go next. Would an online petition help?

the Great Eastern should never be pulled down, the last time they were going to pull it down and build housing on the site someone got a petition up and went around the area for people to sign,i was one who signed it.
If they want housing on the site why not do the same as they did to the Travellers Rest? and turn it into housing and not pull it down, it will never survive as a pub again.
Look how they pulled those houses down in Rock Park for the by pass! all that history is lost now! The Great Eastern has been there for well over 100yrs,it was there even before the present housing!
if there is a on line petition i for one will sign it!!

I have just put together a new online petition just for it. You can find it at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/savethegreateastern/

Mine's the first signature.

No.2 here !

Number 3

today there were a load of vans outside the Great Eastern,looked like they were emptying the place....if there is anything left in there!! they had taken the metal boardings off the lower windows.
it will be such a shame if it's demolished.

yep looks like its being gutted: pics from today 12:45

I have posted this elsewhere on this site tonight - but incase anyone is not watching the other threads relating to the Great Eastern - here it is again.

Christine and Wheels are right. At 11.30am this morning, five removal vans parked outside the Great Eastern. The people in them ripped all the metal shutters off the windows and doors and stripped the place. All the tables and chairs were seen being taken out. They then left the scene, leaving the building wide open with all four doors smashed off their hinges. (Thanks for the photos, Wheels. They will be used as evidence against the owners for what has happened - read below)

When I came home from work at 5.30 there were a group of teenagers sitting on a wall opposite it, flicking lighters and waiting for darkness to descend.

I immediately rang Cllr Niblock to warn him. He contacted the Council's property department who sent out two guys who have now boarded up the smashed doors, not as securely as I would have liked, I hasten to add. They couldn't do the windows because there are so many of them. They have promised to come back at 8 in the morning to do the windows.

Wirral Community Patrol also turned up to guard the place whilst the carpenters went to cut the timber needed to board it up. Whilst I waited with the community officer, two loads of gangs of youths turned up - but scarpered when they saw us.

I am very concerned that the Pub is in danger of being torched - imminently.

Cllr Niblock is furious and is going to demand that a full investigation is launched into how this could have been allowed to happen. The owners of the building are going to get the bill for the boarding up and a rocket from Steve via the planning department.

Also, interestingly, the planning application details have been removed from the Council website. Steve will also be asking some serious questions of the planning department as to why.

This was how they left the place

The main door at the front:-




The side door off Clipper View:-


A view of the inside from the side door:-


The back door to the kitchen:-


Inside the kitchen area:-

That really doesn't look like the owners gutting the place. It looks more like someone robbing the place

Then if so, hopefully the police can use Wheels' photos above to take vehicle details and trace the owners of those vehicles.

Have just been to do a tour of the outside of the pub again tonight, and no-one is about. The windows are unbroken as of yet (00.15 hrs).

Message to Wheels - if you have any more photos that you took, could you please email everything to Cllr Steve Niblock at [email protected] as he will need everything as evidence to launch the investigation. Particularly better details of those licence plates and company names on the sides of the vans. Many thanks

Yes, looks like thieves have ransacked the place, not the owners.

Sorry mate they was the only pictures that I took (using my phone)

Looks like robbers have had their pickings, sell it all on, probably never catch them.

I spoke to the removal guys on Friday and they are emptying the property as it is getting demolished they were there on Thursday and Friday. Very sad to hear this and I just hope they don't build flats and fill them with ... bags.

Have just found out that the owners have already sent someone round some of the homes closest to the pub with a petition ASKING for it to be demolished. A couple from Clipper View, their home backs onto the pub, said they signed it because the guy said to them that they wouldn't be able to sell their house because of the "eyesore of a derelict building next to them". They have been trying to sell their home for 2 years. The couple said the petition had over 200 names on it already.

This is totally wrong that the company should use such tactics to prove their case. We have got our work cut out to counter them with our own petition to prevent its demolition. The online version is at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/savethegreateastern/

According to the couple who I spoke to, the guys who ripped the shutters down last Friday said, quote "the company that owns it are no longer prepared to pay for the security for it". I think that says it all - as I have stated previously - they might have well stuck up a notice outside on Friday night saying "ARSONISTS WELCOME".

The Great Eastern which was beached at New Ferry from which some parts ended up in the pub

Discovered today that the planning application APP/10/00223 was deemed "invalid" - which explains why it was removed from the Council's website. This usually happens when the applicant fails to include some vital information in the application, meaning that the planning department are unable to process it. The applicant has to resubmit the application again, making sure that the missing information is included.

Hope the pub can be saved, before the council specialist arson department wade in.

Actually, I don't think the Council want the building to be demolished. Cllrs Niblock and Moon have been very supportive of New Ferry and our efforts in regeneration, and in helping the cause to defend the Great Eastern. I know that David Ball, head of Regeneration, was keen to talk to the developers to dissuade them from demolition .... so, on this occasion, the Council are not at fault.

If English Heritage turn down the application for listing, then it will be down to the planning department to do their job. I'm not sure of how or what exact criteria is needed for them to refuse the (resubmitted) application (when and if it ever comes), whether it be strength of public feeling about losing this landmark building, or any other technical issue, but - at the end of the day - if legally they cannot do anything but grant permission for the new houses, then they will have to do that. They can only do what the law says they can do.

Just read the planning application online for the proposed houses.

They look good, far better than the last application for apartments. I think the renovation will greatly improve the appearance of this part of New Ferry.

It is sad to lose a land mark, but the place has been left too long now for vandals to ruin, it's in a very sorry state.

It should be listed/retained to be included in the coast regeneration scheme.

Its definitely being demolished according to the paper tonight, but they are going to 'sympathetically' demolish it and try to retain some of the history. I agree with you though.

It's such a neat looking pub in an open setting, and with some local maritime history attached to it.

'Disgusted',
formerly of Bebington.

Slightly sloppy reporting there. Lorna rang me at work to tell me she had heard from the developers. They plan to build a token memorial to the pub. I said that a memorial could in no way compensate for the real thing.

Although the developer/owner can go ahead and demolish if they wish, it wouldn't be worth their doing it until they get planning approval for their houses. As yet, they still need to (re)submit their application, and it still has to be approved. Therefore, the fight is not over yet whilst the building is still standing.

Unfortunately, my attempt to get the pub listed was rejected by English Heritage on the grounds that all the artefacts from the ship had been removed and there had been too many phsycial alterations to the outside of the building since the early 20th century photographs. It was worth a try, I suppose.

The point is, Engineer1980, that is WASN'T a wrecked eyesore till the metal screens were ripped off the other week. It would have been possible to reopen it within 24 hours if someone had bought it to do that. Now, of course, the rot has been allowed to set in. And as for the developer's assertion that it has "serious structural problems" - that is load of bull, because the previous owners had no problem and ran their business from the premises not that long ago. Asbestos - well, many old buildings have asbestos in them; that only needs to be removed.

However, let's wait and see how the developer's application fares when it eventually come back for consideration.

It is a shame to let this building be demolished, but the only way to stop this is for someone with more money than sense to buy it & reopen it as a pub / bistro or whatever. Who is going to do this the way the pubs are closing these days?

Is there any way to get that coastal regeneration scheme involved? It doesn't have to be a pub. A museum to shipping history, Wirral life, restaurant, cafe, picnic area..... Wish I'd won that £56 million!

Youre right, why should a 'memorial' replace a piece of heritage that could be saved? I suppose any houses that they do build will have the roads named after the pub in some way, big deal! (Eastern Close etc) Lets keep our fingers crossed anyway.

All done, sorry i took a while

can't see how they will get 10 houses built there! if they do all i can say is that they will be really small, more like chicken coops!!!

I've said before why not open it as a museum? Port Sunlight have a heritage centre!!
lets have something we have'nt got! everything has gone out of New Ferry now,there's nothing here anymore!! and that pub was my dad's local many years ago,it will be sad to see it go, for years and years i have walked over the bridge and seen that in front of me, it will be so strange not to see it anymore.

Trearan - The metal screens made it look like a derelict eyesore! Aside from this, the roof is ripped to shreds, the windows are smashed (smashed before the shutters were put up!) and the place is scrawled with graffiti...
How on earth that could the building have been reopened within 24 hours??

To add, if you read my last post, you will see that I agree that it is sad to lose a piece of history like this.
My point is that it has been wrecked by vandals and nobody in their right mind would open it as a pub again unless they had money to burn.

It was just a matter of time before it was purchased by developers who would likely make more money by flattening it and rebuilding on the land, than they would by converting the building into accommodation.

That said, i'd appreciate it if you would refrain from directing your rants at me, like everyone else on here I have a right to my own opinion!

By the way - the new planning application is online.

Dont remember there ever been anything in New Ferry bar the corpo bus sheds and the open air baths in the 40s/50s

I concede, Engineer1980, no offence intended. We just have slightly different opionions on this one I know the battle might seem lost at the moment, but it isn't over until the bulldozers actually arrive. Until then, despite the condition into which the pub has now fallen - and more so since the screens came off which was the developer's intention - we can but hope that the application is turned down.

Granted, it is unlikely to reopen as a pub or anything else in the near future - but who is to say that in 2 or 3 years time, someone may want to make a go of it as a combined heritage centre/cafe/pub/restaurant as part of the newly emerging East Wirral Coast Heritage & Nature Trail. I, and many others think, that allowing the building to be demolished now, when it is at its most vulnerable, is a bit premature.

But we shall see

Closing date for comments on the application is 24th April, so if anyone reading this post wants to make a comment direct to the planning officer dealing with the case, click this link: http://www.wirral.gov.uk/planning/D...p;hasreference=no&TheSystemkey=84519

I have submitted an objection. Probably won't do any bloody good but we can try.

just submitted my objection, as willjb has said:''probably wont do any bloody good but we can try''

Done! We can only try, that's the least!

not long now till the great eastern is knocked down and i cant wait to get rid of this eyesore,counting down the days .....

From all your defending of the demolition and gloating over it's apparent commencement I'm starting to think that you have some financial agenda in relation to the property
So is it the demolition contract you've got or are you the developer?
Either way you come across as a petty/greedy person.

no i just have to look at the eyesore each morning when i wake up and look out of my window

Try optrex

Looks like a losing battle. The thing I have noticed though is that people think councillors are the council but they are not, it's the execs who run things and I get the impression that there are invested interests which get involved with that lot. I've been to planning meetings and the body language between the council "officers" and the developers is something worth close observation and conclusion can definitely be drawn. When I voiced my concerns I was told "Prove it". Doncaster Council have just been wrapped up because of the goings on there and it seems other councils might benefit from a bit of investigation too, and I am not necessarily talking about the councillors themselves here. Just my opinion.

I have to agree with Engineer1980 - the building is a mess.
I checked out the plans online, and I reckon it will be an improvement.

That's just my opinion before anyone hits back at my comments!!

I see it every day too and it makes me cringe to see it in such a state. It makes the place look rough and untidy.

Wirral Council's planning committee is meeting at 6pm on Tuesday 1st June to make its decision on the application. The planning department is recommending approval of the housing scheme, even though it breaks a number of planning guidelines.

Yesterday, the developer sent in a team who ripped the railings and gates off the garden walls and erected fencing with signs saying "DEMOLITION - DENGER KEEP OUT". They seem very assured that it will be approved.

I have been invited to speak at the meeting for 5 minutes. I have asked if I can make a visual presentation which I will try to work on this weekend on my laptop whilst shivering in a tent in the rain in Staffordshire for three days.

In the meantime - with the thought "We shouldn't have let that be demolished" - can everyone please nominate some other lost treasures which, if faced with being demolished today rather than in previous years, hindsight would have indicated that we should have kept. I'd like some Wirral examples of buildings that should have been kept to list in my presentation. Answers please by Monday night. Thanks.

For anyone who is still interested, the planning committee delayed making its decision, and will be visiting the site of the pub at midday on Thursday 1st July to have a look at things for themselves. If anyone wants to be there to tell the committee members what they think about the proposals (whether for or against), you are welcome to do so.

The application will subsequently be on the agenda at the next planning committee meeting on Tuesday 6th July at 6pm at Wallasey Town Hall where I will finally get to speak.

In the meantime, the pub continues to deteriorate - so much damage has been caused to it by the developer in recent weeks in advance of the application's approval.

It should be pointed out that the developer is profiteering by purposely making the place derelict. What's the betting it goes up in flames.

The Great Eastern is being demolished - probably today (23rd June). Worksharp is living up to its name and getting the building destroyed before the Council's planning committee can do their site visit. To be honest, we expected something like this to happen.

I just wonder how smug those residents in Clipper View who wrote in letters in support of the proposals will be feeling when they find out that the new houses will be built too close to the backs of their homes. The Council's planning officer has recommended that the application to build the new houses is approved, even though they will be closer to the existing houses in Clipper View than national guidelines recommend. When that conifer hedge comes down in future years, their new neighbours in those swanky "affordable homes" are going to have a wonderful view of any bedroom activities. Whoops!!

Unfortunately, I will probably be in work when the deed is carried out. If anyone is passing as the building comes down, please try to take some pictures so we can record the event on our website and make those who allowed this to happen hang their heads in shame in the years to come when they finally appreciate what they have allowed to be lost.

Don't they have to have permits to block the public footway/roadway?

They also need to have given 6 weeks notice to building control who issue a list of compliances that are required.

It is a novelty of planning permission that you need it to do "substantial alterations" but you don't need it to demolish a building.

I will try get some shots if poss.

The Great Eastern has gone, so sad to see it go,such a shame!
every were is covered in dust,for those who wanted it pulled down....hope you have dust everywere!!!

some pics i took today........

Had a similar thing here, no one objected (bar myself and a n other) and the others said "It'll be no problem". When the flats went up and he stuck an extra floor on then their tune changed and they find it "intrusive" now. I objected and got the ones behind me limited to 2 floors, not perfect but better than the others. Oh yes, the "affordable homes" crowd are in there and the language and what have you is certainly not what we are used to round here. It gets those who are genuinely in need of assistance a bad press.

Wed 23rd:





Thursday 24th:





would of uploaded last night but the site was down

Gone

so sad, end of an era, still say it should never have been pulled down.
when i look down the road now it just doesn't look right!! 148yrs ends up in a pile of rubble!! hope the developer is satisfied?