I recently bought a second hand car from bromborough, it was before christmas so never really got chance to go out in it last month, i started using my car as the weather got better and noticed that when i was going down hill the car just kept cutting out. I decided to take the car to a friend of the family who is a mechanic and he said that the car was not worth what i paid for it and there was a leak in the head gasket. When i found out this i took the car straight back to the place where i got it from. He told me to take the car to a garage that he uses. I gathered all my documents for the car and realised that my MOT certificate did not have an advisory page on it when taking it to the garage i asked where it was as they had carried out the MOT they said that it had been ripped off but i could get it online. So i did that an realised that there was alot of problems with the car that are and could be serious that i werent told about when purchasing the car. Have i got the right to take the car back and ask for a refund? if not what am i entitled to?

This is a friend of mine who I have told to come here for some advice, Thanks guys!

Was it a private sale or a dealer?

If it is a private sale and they said nothing to mislead you then there is nothing you can do. If if they misled you, unless you have proof there is nothing really achievable.

it was a dealer, when me an my boyfriend asked if he had had any problems with the car he said no, shouldnt have he before selling the car told me the things that where on the advisory?

There is no compulsion to tell you anything, what warranty was given and what sort of price range are we talking about.

out of intrest which place in bromborough was it as im having alot of problems with a car bought in bromborough

It was £995 for a t reg KA theres a 3 month warranty on it. Bt with all the things on the advisory i dont think i will even get 3 months out of the car.


It was a place in bromborough on the retail park

get what problems that are showing up put right by the dealer

Does he have to do that?

The advisories are just what they say, the car is still safe/roadworthy or it would be a fail. Some MOT stations get a bit carried away on advisories, its not totally uncommon to have an advisory one year and a full pass the next year without it being rectified.

The headgasket should be covered by the warranty, but it depends on the small print and any repair price cap that may exist.

If something is actually faulty then it is unlikely to be covered by warantee. Most of the advisories would probably come under this catagory.

You could try kicking up a stink and suggest you want your money back, but the garage doesn't have to take any notice.

Basically secondhand goods are expected not to be perfect but in the case of a car it is expected to be roadworthy if sold by a dealer.

Do you want to list the advisories and see if anyone else has any comments on them.

Front Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2a)

Nearside Inner sill Body has slight corrosion (6.1.3)

Offside Outer sill Body has slight corrosion (6.1.3)

Nearside Front chassis leg Body has slight corrosion (6.1.3)

Offside Front chassis leg Body has slight corrosion (6.1.3)

Offside Front suspension has slight movement at a wishbone pin or bush (2.5.A.1c)

Nearside Track rod end ball joint has slight play (2.2.B.1f)

Offside front an nearside front brake discs

Was it the dealer near the Pet Food place?

If so some of there motors are over priced turds.

Was there a written reciept when you purchased it?

Now as these are Advisory the dealer should of rectified the problems, be it low brake pads, bushs etc.

Send a written letter to the dealer (recorded delivery) statingh you are not happy, list your problems etc.

Request you want the situation sorting ASAP, be it an independent garage rectifies the work or a full refund.

When you buy from a dealer you want 12months MOT not advisory's telling you in 2 months your brake pads etc are going to be shot (example btw)

Ive been told by a mechanic that the car is not at all worth what i paid. The advisory had been ripped off before the MOT certificate had been given to me. could he not just turn around and say that he wasnt aware of any advisories?

MrPhil

Sorry to disagree, but as far as I am aware ...

As long as it roadworthy when sold then then the dealer has no responsibility to fix anything or warn you about it prior to the sale.

The warantee usually covers faulty items but not things that wear such as brake pads/disks, bulbs, tyres, windscreen wiper blades etc

When buying from a dealer, under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) a car must be:

Of satisfactory quality. It must meet the standard a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, bearing in mind the way it was described, how much it cost, the make, the age, the history, the mileage, the intended usage of the car and any other relevant circumstances. Amongst other things, this covers the fitness, appearance and finish of the car, its safety and its durability. The car must be free from defects, except when they were pointed out to you by the seller before you agreed to buy it or where you have inspected the car and that inspection ought to have uncovered the car defects. Even where a car appears to have a minor defect, it may still be of unsatisfactory quality if that defect could lead to extensive damage or render the car dangerous to drive.


Do i have nothing to go by from this?

What was the date of the test?

he can't say he was unaware as it is stated on your MOT Advisory notice given.

Chances are he bought it from an auction, MOT'd it and banged on an extra £300 on the price.

The date it passed was the 22/06/2010 it also failed the exact same day. Ive been told from a friend that he is a cowboy but this doesnt get me anywhere as i have no proof. this was from the consumer direct advice website
The car must be free from defects, except when they were pointed out to you by the seller before you agreed to buy it or where you have inspected the car and that inspection ought to have uncovered the car defects.
does this not mean he has to tell me about the things on the advisory before selling the car?

Don't be sorry

Can see your point but if your buying a car from a DEALER you want 12 months ticket, not havin to faff about before then due to advisory defects kickin in.

I hope you get it sorted Sarah.

Did you buy it with 12 months MOT?

Did he tell you it only had 6 months?

He didnt say anything like that only that it had passed its MOT gave me the certificate and told me it had 6 months tax on it. When my boyfriend asked wether he had had any problems with the car he said no but he obviously knew there was problems with the car and chose not to tell us or give us the advisory.

Advisories are not defects, all MOT defects are fails, not advisories.

Generally advisories are supposed to be items that are fully functional and roadworthy but are expected to be needed to be fixed before the next MOT.

Many other faults can develop before the next MOT, the dealer isn't expected to fix them in anticipation of them going wrong. The waranteed may cover some of them.

Try citizens advice, they can give you a more professional opinion.

[All IMHO]

Hmm i honestly think that i have just been done over by this man an he hasnt told me about the advisories because he thought nothing would come from them in the first 3 months of me driving so it wouldnt be his problem

I can't see you getting any where tbh.

If you had it MOT'd a week before sale then yes but as it is 6 months in he could argue the advisory's had been done.

Least next time you buy you can swerve his place and double check your MOT.

Keep us updated, and good luck.

Thanks

By the way, I do sympathise with you wholeheartedly, and I don't think it is right but I'm trying to inform you of what I think is a realistic with secondhand cars - and I am afraid it is rather negative.

The 6 months "missing" MOT should have been a warning to you, he's either had trouble selling the car or he's sold it once and its been returned already. Also he was presumably a bit worried about putting it in for another full MOT (12 months MOT ups the selling price of a car quite a bit).

If there was anything that would have failed the MOT when he sold it to you, he should have fixed them, but as its now a couple of months on, its too late to go down that route.

Not being unsympathetic: so it's a bit rusty round the edges and needs new brake discs. And you paid roughly three times its true worth.

It's a 16 year old shed, a cheapo car which was originally designed and built down to a price and probably with a lifetime of 5 years in mind. What do you expect? The advisories are just that - they're not MOT fail points, they're there to warn you that those items may need attention before they turn into a major problem.

Read this: http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/ford/ka-1996/

Call Trading Standards.
To cut a long story short, a lad in work bought a car from a dealer in December. Engine Seized in Jan and because trading standards showed my mate where to print off an advisory notice to the dealer he is now having the engine replaced free of charge.

He was advised that he could either :

1) Let the dealer fix the problem.
2) Replace the car to the equivalent.
3) Refund.

It was something like that.

But the Advise hear is ring up the Birkenhead Trading Standards you have nothing to loose and everything to gain.

You will be guided to there website,
and to print off there official document where you just fill in your details.

Hope that helps.

See trading standards
https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/214868/Trading_Standards.html#Post214868

if your generally worried about it, pop it down to my garage and ill giive it a full look over for free. i dont rip people off, and haave lots of good feedback in the autowirral section

Ka's are very rusty cars ive heard of 4 year old ones needing welding, i used to work doing mots but if undersealed and waxoiled they'll last a lot longer and there will be no expensiove welding jobs! best to see to them now

A T Reg ford Ka is worth £995 depending on condition and milage, the dealer does not have to tell you about the advisorys, if your 3 month warranty is up it's your problem, sorry but you should of checked the car when you bought it (or before).
There is nothing you can do about it.
Ka's are not a very good car to buy second hand, you will always have problems with them, especially over 75k.
Mike T just because it's 16 years old it doesn't mean it's a shed. Some people aren't mugs that go out getting finace

Unfortunatly, as already mentioned advisorys on an MOT are just that. "Slight" corrosion can be just that for 10 years before it is bad enough to fail an MOT

Also, checking the advisory list after you have bought the car is a bit like locking the gate once the horse has bolted - this should have been checked prior to buying the car.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I sympathise with your situation.

Fortunatly the headgasket should be covered by the warrenty, as for the advisorys, they are just that, they are not MOT failure issues - yet, I think if you went over many newer cars closely enough a tester could find "advisorys" on much newer cars also....

If there was an advisory attached to the MOT certificate we would have checked to see what was on it yes unfortunately it werent noticed straight away i am only 18 an this was a first car and it all seems to be going wrong.
I will ring up trading standards thanks as u said i have nothin to loose.

If you are going to buy a second hand car it is always better to find someone who knows at least a little bit about them to advise you. Look on the website "Honest John", he is the Daily Telegraph motoring fellah and there is lots of good gen on there especially with advice to yourself on buyers rights and also run downs on prices for cars, would advise anyone to look at this site as it is very informative when it comes to cars.

Yeah my boyfriend was with me and his friend told him to look at all the things that are prone to go wrong with ka's at the time they was fine. I will go on that website thanks

Does the dealer not have to tell me about the advisories or produce me with the advisory sheet off the MOT when i bought the car ?

Unfortunatly not.

As a dealer this bloke is covered by Trading Standards, if it was a private sale then nothing could be done. As a dealer he has certain responsibilities and it will depend on the willingness of the agrieved buyer to carry forward a case, just my opinion.

I think the best thing for me to do is wait and see what the garage say about the head gasket an then get in touch with trading standards

Your call to trading standards is confidential.
So you have nothing to worry about.

They are really helpful.

As i mentioned my work mate.

If not for the Trading Standards he would have had to pay £1,000 for a second hand engine and hassel.

When you ring them.
Explain the situation you dont even have to name the garage.
You will be advised to download and print out "YOUR RIGHTS"
which if you feel strong enough can present to the garage.
Or you can post them.

In this current climate "NO MONEY" Garages and alike can not afford "ANY" bad publicity.

Just Ring Trading Standards.
And go prepared knowing your rights. . . .
And having them in your hand allows you to be confident.

Good Luck

Okay thanks

Sarah,

Contact 'Consumer Direct' on 08454 04 05 06 (or ring 0151 691 8020 which will divert you to that number). Consumer Direct handle all initial calls for Trading Standards departments in the UK. You will be speaking to a trained advisor who will tell you what your rights are. The matter is also likely to be referred through to your local Trading Standards Department to look into.

If you wish, you can submit your complaint online at www.consumerdirect.gov.uk instead of calling them.

As far as the comments posted stating that the garage doesn't have to tell you about the advisories, they are wrong. By not making you aware of this it is what's known as a 'misleading ommission'. In basic terms it asks the question... "would the average consumer have bought the car had they known about the advisories?" or "would the average consumer have paid the same amount of money for the car had they known about the advisories?"

If you haven't done so already, contact Consumer Direct and you'll be up to speed with your statutory rights before you can say "old banger!".

Thanks going to submit by complaint now that has been a big help

I have just sent my complaint will i receive an email off them or will they ring to get in touch?

I here what you are saying, and have heard that opinion before. Do you really expect a secondhand dealer to itemise every scratch and signs of wear - I never heard a secondhand furniture dealer do this.

Unfortunately it was brought in under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, another trashy piece of miscreated legislation. The implications are huge and almost make it impossible to sell secondhand goods which are not perfect. All cars would be sold as spares or repairs by dealers if this legislation was enforced.

You're also assuming that the trader himself knew of the advisories. It was MOT'd 6 months ago and most likely came into the traders hands with the advisory already removed. A quick glance at the MOT to check the dates is all that may have happened.

The man who i brought the car off had put it in for the MOT himself

In fairness to Bushnut, you can quote the "Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008" to the dealer and specifically point out "Misleading Omission"

Laws like this get up my **** but they can be useful ammunition to consumers.

After speaking to mark earlier at J3 (your local electrical wholesaler off Junction3 asda round about ) one of the lads that works there bought a poo car, went to trading standards and after a while they replaced the old engine with a new one result!

! Is no-one listening?
I work at a garage, you have had your time to get your money back and the warranty has ran out.
Game over, you should of checked the car out BEFORE buying it, ie: vosa website, history & Mot check, hpi check etc, the dealer does NOT have to show you the advisorys, it's up to YOU to check the car out & you never EVER listen to what a dealer tells you as 9/10 they are filling you full of crap!
Just out of interest, what's the milage of this Ka?

I do find it strange that this dealer has given you a warranty on a £1000 car anyway? Also if he knew the car was a mess there is no way he would of given a warranty on it.

This guy is a better bandit bud, even his mates will tell u behind his back to avoid him and his shitters.

[quote=_
Mike T just because it's 16 years old it doesn't mean it's a shed. Some people aren't mugs that go out getting finace [/quote]

Yeah, I know Ste. I'm completely debt free mate, I'm good with money, something I learned from my old mum.

And I don't agree. Any car more than ten years old, unless it's being preserved or has been restored, is a shed. Especially if it's a piece of cheapo Ford shite designed to last five years. Look at Honest John's guide on the Ka - everything there agrees with what I said, and the common faults he lists are the same as the OP has.

Cheap cars are a false economy. They're being sold cheap for a reason. Better to spend more and get a newer one with a decent warranty.

If memory serves me . .
To Sell cars as a Trader Have to sell cars with a warranty.
As we know the warranty means nothing and these warranty certificates can be purchased off e-bay for about 15p each.
I think the min warranty they can offer is 3 months.

As you say your 18 and i think this is "Lesson Learned" i'm sure we all have done it in the past.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
sarah2
The e-mail should contain the links and reference to your statutory rights where you can just fill in your details making it personal to you.

Good Luck

All cars from registered dealers must come with a warrenty of some description.

More expensive cars get a more comprehensive policy, cheaper cars will get the more mimimum mechanical policy.

If the car had a fresh MOT then it was deemed fit for the road, and fit for purpose. The Headgasket issue should be covered by the warrenty, however, if thats paid for by the dealer, and the cost to repair is more than the cars worth, he may offer a refund - but only on the headgasket cost basis.

At screen price only!

My warranty has not ran out ive still got a month left of it i came on this to get advice whilst the car is in the garage so i can take it back when i get it back an no what im actually entitled to

So if he's got the car in the garage and he's fixing it and you've just got some advisories what's actually the problem. The advisories may still be that in five years time. Yes you may have paid over the odds for the car but you can't just take something back cos you found out it's not worth that much a few months later

He never told me about the advisories and the sheet werent attached to the MOT when i asked him wether there was any problems he lied and said no if i knew about all the advisories then i wouldnt have purchased the car

Wigg she aint a bird brain, she's here for advice, if your gunna comment at least read the whole topic instead of second guessing whats been said.

Every scratch and signs of wear do not have to be made aware to potential buyers. But... anything that could be classed as "material information" does. Material information is the kind of information which would affect a consumer's decision whether to buy a product or how much they would be willing to pay.

If your warranty has not ran out he HAS to either give you your money back or repair the damaged head.
P

Just spoke to the garage they cant find the fault, but said from what ive told them it is the head gasket, they said their keeping it till tonight to see if they can find the fault, if they say they cant and the car still keeps having the same problems like loosing water and cutting out on me can i then take it back and ask for my money back?

Yes, they must rectify the problem or give you your money back.

Okay thanks will just have to wait and see what they say

Make sure there's antifreeze in it though so they carnt blame it on you

Yeah there is i took it to a friend of the family who is a mechanic the other day and he done all that for me

Didnt you say that b4 you drove off he was topping it up with anti freeze?

Yeah after we had bought the car he followed us out to the car and filled it up with a bottle of anti freeze when i took it to my dads mate the other day it was totally empty

hello sara i have found in the past when you only have a short time left on your warranty they might just mess about untill the time left has ran out and and they will not be responsible any more you have to demand they fix the problem now before your warranty runs out and not wait as they will probably tell you to do be kind but firm good luck june

Okay thanks well i get my car back tomorrow from the garage gonna see what they say but if they havent been able to rectify the problem then im gonna take it back to the dealer and ask him for my money back i think thats what im entitled to

Unfortunatly, at best, all you will get offered is a credit note if the dealer agrees the problem is his issue, and the work needed to put the car back is to expensive and not viable.

He is not abliged to give a refund

Got my car back form the garage today they said the problems had been fixed, just went out in the car now and its still cutting out when im going down a hill what can i do now?

You in the AA or RAC? Wishful thinking maybe BUT they can be helpful in my experience. If THEY say there is a problem the garage really has to take notice

Snod

Can i not just get a refund on the car or am i not entitled to that ive read that if the dealer has tryed to fix the car but its too an unsatisfactory level i can get refund not sure how true that is tho ..

I think the problem is that you have to get someone "authoritative" to say that the work done is not to a satisfactory level. The dealer will always say "fixed it" when there is just a short time left on a warranty in the hope that you will be outside the warranty by the time you realise the job was not done correctly. The dealer will also (understandably) ask you "who are you to judge the quality of my workmanship".

Snod

I have a receipt of what they had fixed today but if it is still cutting out can i not take it back to him and tell him that there must be another problem for it to just be cutting out when im going down hill?

idle control valve, take it off and clean in petrol or thinners

I object Chris

It's cutting out when it's going downhills, the idle control valve wouldn't cause that.
Also I don't think an 18 year old lady would want to take it off and soak it in petrol, besides that, it's down to the garage to repair it.

So should i just take it back from where i got it from and see what they say? its already been the garage once i think they might just be putting things off until my warranty runs out

i was assuming it was when clutching buddy, worth a go, could be anything though, it needs looking at by a proper garage for a proper opinion first.

If I were you Sarah I'd get someone older to go back to the garage with you, I think they're playing on your age, you need to know your rights with these dealers & they know that.
Demand your money back! We refund if we cannot fix vehicles but then again my boss ain't an asshole

well said ste

Hahaa thanks me an my dad gonna take it back up there an see what he says yeah ive been looking it up on the internet if they cant rectify or fix the problem then i am entitled to my money back

You don't appear to have contacted Consumer Direct / Trading Standards about this? As helpful as people online try to be offering advice, you can't beat the "real thing" where you get the right answer and practical help if needed too. Trust me.

yes i have been in touch with consumers direct an they state
'If you initially choose to allow the dealer to repair the fault within a reasonable period after the sale, you are still entitled to a refund if the repair turns out to be unsatisfactory. '

Take jamie with you, I've seen that fool get serious on a judge in court...he'd rip that cunnt a new one tbh.

haha hes told me about that i want to take it back as soon as poss tho an he wont be back till late tomorrow then we go away for the weekend just gonna go up with me dad and see what happens hopefully it will be somethin positive

Can you go with her Ste

Me? I work all the time
How did your dad get on with this?

He told us to take it to our own mechanic an he would pay all the costs but then rang us up saturday morning askin if we could pay £120 even tho its under warranty so we said no an he said put it back in with the garage who was suppose to have fixed the problem first time .. if it doesnt get fixed this time we told him we will be wanting our money back its been two weeks now i havent had a car.

The reason he's asking you to take it to a garage he uses is because he will be getting a reasonable discount on the work due to using them all the time.
He will probably end up refunding you if it cannot be repaired this time & putting it into an auction to get shut of it.

I worked for Trading Standards a while ago and I know their practices for when a case is brought to them are arbitrary depending on loads of factors when you bought the car. The only way to find out is to contact them with every detail you can remember since buying the car.
If something went wrong with the car within a certain time period after buying, the garage/dealer should repair the faults with the car.
Getting advice on a forum doesn't really cover the scope on warranty's, the TS bible covering the motor trade is quite detailed, and the only way you can sort it out is by contacting them.

after getting my car back the first time it was still not fixed the dealer then told me to take it to an independent garage which i did, the place where i took it told the dealer it could be a number of things but the dealer told him just to fix one thing. after getting the car back last week it is still cutting out and consumers direct quotes 'If you initially choose to allow the dealer to repair the fault within a reasonable period after the sale, you are still entitled to a refund if the repair turns out to be unsatisfactory.' ive just took the car back to were i brought it from and stated this to him saying i was unhappy and im entitled to my money back and hes just point blank said no. what can i do now? the dealer has told me he is getting advice himself but if that states im entitled to a refund what they just tell him the same?

get back in touch with trading standards they will tell you what to do next

i have done gotta take it further now looks like we'll be going to the small claims court in liverpool

You can probably make the claim online to save you the hassle. If he disputes it then it may be transferred to the local court for a hearing. Chances are that he may bottle out as soon as he gets the initial paperwork.

CLICKY MCOL