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lollipop
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lollipop
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"The shroud or Turin" granny, I know you won't mind me correcting you. I am so picky gone.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,791 Likes: 3
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
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No Lollipop,I don't mind you correcting me but in the link I provided from the Telegraph Newspaper, it clearly said ;
"Turin Shroud may have been created by earthquake from time of Jesus "
Who am I to argue?
Now has anyone tried it ? If so please tell me what you saw, if not please try and tell me what you see.
It is the colour of hair that interests me.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659
Smartchild
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Smartchild
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659 |
I can't believe I have only just found this very interesting thread, its taken 40 minutes to trawl through. I will state from the outset that I am a non believer but am more than happy to respect every one else's viewpoint. From what I understand if you were to remove the titles of each religion be it catholic, buddhism or whatever and simply look at their basic belief, they all look the same. Each states you are born an innocent, they then go on to teach good values and then conclude that when you die you will be reborn in one way or another. The differences seem to be how they get that message across. There will always be controversy as we look for 'proof' that one religion is better or worse than another or that lessons given in the format of a story are disproved as not being a miracle or whatever. It is not really possible, in my opinion, to read as fact the scriptures from either ancient times or modern text as they were written to help the 'story teller' make their point and captivate the audience. Using the King James Bible as an example. It was the first translation into what was modern english at the time. The story behind the creation of this Bible translation is little known and reveals an amazing interplay of faith and politics, church and state at the start of the 17th century. Its worth taking to Google to look into the story. I digress, the translating corrupted some of the original passages and some writings were missed out entirely. In essence, its not possible to read the bible and say it is a true picture whether you believe the contents or not. I would imagine the same type of editing and so altering the written history, has happened with every religion. I think the main point to all religions is the same as a descent persons perspective as right and wrong. Live right and treat others decently. If you think about rebirth, we are all made of elements, atoms and protons. When we die we decompose and return to our particulate composition which i turn is regenerated into another form. Ashes to ashes etc..and then the story starts over.
Last edited by GeeMeister; 19th Mar 2015 2:41am.
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Forum Master
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Forum Master
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I've no problem with anyone not believing, so long as you don't start praying when a loved one is sick or seriously ill!
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 506
Smartchild
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Smartchild
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 506 |
Now has anyone tried it ? If so please tell me what you saw, if not please try and tell me what you see.
It is the colour of hair that interests me.
Yes Granny I tried it. His hair looks dark to me. This probably isn`t the right thing to say but He looks like a Hells Angel to me when I blink!
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,791 Likes: 3
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
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Now has anyone tried it ? If so please tell me what you saw, if not please try and tell me what you see.
It is the colour of hair that interests me.
Yes Granny I tried it. His hair looks dark to me. This probably isn`t the right thing to say but He looks like a Hells Angel to me when I blink!
Please try it again,Giggler and doing it with the other picture ( right hand side one as you look at them) and enlarge it more. I got the same as you first time, looked as if he'd been beaten up...then I realised it was the wrong image.
Last edited by granny; 19th Mar 2015 1:31pm.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 506
Smartchild
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Smartchild
Joined: Oct 2012
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Put this on another thread earlier, but it was moved to the jokes section. It is the Turin Shroud, which most will have heard of. Said to be the cloth Jesus was wrapped in after his death. Follow the same as before : i.e. On the right picture(enlarge it a bit if needed) 1) imagine a red dot on the end of the nose and stare at it for 30 seconds 2)Turn your eyes to plain surface (ceiling or blank wall) 3) Blink repeatedly and quickly Is it because the hair looks so bright? What do you see ? ![[Linked Image]](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02521/turin-shroud_2521848b.jpg) http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...-Shroud-may-date-from-time-of-Jesus.html
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 17,791 Likes: 3
Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
Joined: Jun 2011
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I can't believe I have only just found this very interesting thread, its taken 40 minutes to trawl through. I will state from the outset that I am a non believer but am more than happy to respect every one else's viewpoint. From what I understand if you were to remove the titles of each religion be it catholic, buddhism or whatever and simply look at their basic belief, they all look the same. Each states you are born an innocent, they then go on to teach good values and then conclude that when you die you will be reborn in one way or another. The differences seem to be how they get that message across. There will always be controversy as we look for 'proof' that one religion is better or worse than another or that lessons given in the format of a story are disproved as not being a miracle or whatever. It is not really possible, in my opinion, to read as fact the scriptures from either ancient times or modern text as they were written to help the 'story teller' make their point and captivate the audience. Using the King James Bible as an example. It was the first translation into what was modern english at the time. The story behind the creation of this Bible translation is little known and reveals an amazing interplay of faith and politics, church and state at the start of the 17th century. Its worth taking to Google to look into the story. I digress, the translating corrupted some of the original passages and some writings were missed out entirely. In essence, its not possible to read the bible and say it is a true picture whether you believe the contents or not. I would imagine the same type of editing and so altering the written history, has happened with every religion. I think the main point to all religions is the same as a descent persons perspective as right and wrong. Live right and treat others decently. If you think about rebirth, we are all made of elements, atoms and protons. When we die we decompose and return to our particulate composition which i turn is regenerated into another form. Ashes to ashes etc..and then the story starts over. Much of what you say is in my opinion correct, and I don't think that any religious belief is any better or any worse. As you say, they then go on to teach good values , those values were firstly written down in the religious texts, to be followed as way of guidance to override the pagan traditions. Taking King James bible as an example is probably the worst in many ways. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, and there are ,even now, many people who read the Hebrew bible. The translations have not really changed anything from the original texts. The Old Testament believed to have began 10th century BC , is basically a record of history of biblical times, and extremely interesting with regard to how the tribes moved about, the directions they took,places they travelled to, the armies of 200 thousand, etc. etc. When reading the books of the Old Testament, they certainly indicate that they were WRITTEN AT THE TIME OF THE EVENTS that happened, not later. Therefore they must be true account of the times. One example of King James bible getting the wording wrong is Judges 4:19 And she opened a bottle of milk, and gave him drink, and covered him. The correct translation: So she opened a skin of milk and gave him a drink and covered him. King James Bible 2000, has in fact changed it to 'skin' It does not detract from the original recorded event. Scholars have made sure that the translations are as accurate as they can be and the certain discrepancies certainly do not change the content from the Hebrew bible, or the New Testament that was written in Greek. Someone told me, that if we read three chapters of the bible per day and five on a Sunday, it would take one year to complete. That takes severe dedication !
Last edited by granny; 20th Mar 2015 1:13am.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659
Smartchild
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Smartchild
Joined: Jan 2014
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I whole heartedly agree about the dedication! I'm no theologist nor a reader of ancient scripts but I was made to understand from various documentaries over the years that many of the writings purported to have been accurate writings of the times were actually proven to have been written over a hundred years after the supposed death of Jesus. I appreciate that some may find that offensive so please let me say that I have no thought on that one way or the other. Regardless of anyones religious fervour I would say that I believe, on the whole, that ancient scribes were intent on good and to that end I applaud them. Personally i believe in modern science and the big bang theory, not making all we survey in seven days; but i would like to think i learned a lot from my prepubescent religious schooling to live my life in a 'christian' manner and with descent values. I think that is where the value of religion lies.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
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The books of the New Testament were written in 1st century AD. Jesus died about 33 AD and for example, Paul died in 67AD ,John died in 98 AD, so that would be quite exact.
There was also a period of 400 years between the last book of the Old Testament and the first book of the New Testament.
The following are all texts written in the first century AD.
New Testament, which would indicate that they were first hand accounts.
James--A.D. 44-49
Galatians--A.D. 49-50
Matthew--A.D. 50-60
Mark--A.D. 50-60
1 Thessalonians--A.D. 51
2 Thessalonians--A.D. 51-52
1 Corinthians--A.D. 55
2 Corinthians--A.D. 55-56
Romans-- A.D. 56
Luke--A.D. 60-61
Ephesians--A.D. 60-62
Philippians--A.D. 60-62
Philemon--A.D. 60-62
Colossians--A.D. 60-62
Acts--A.D. 62
1 Timothy--A.D. 62-64
Titus--A.D. 62-64
1 Peter--A.D. 64-65
2 Timothy--A.D. 66-67
2 Peter--A.D. 67-68
Hebrews--A.D. 67-69
Jude--A.D. 68-70
John--A.D. 80-90
1 John--A.D. 90-95
2 John--A.D. 90-95
3 John--A.D. 90-95
Revelation--A.D. 94-96
Last edited by granny; 20th Mar 2015 1:57am.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659
Smartchild
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Smartchild
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659 |
Thanks for that Granny i will bow to your better knowledge if something you obviously hold dear and i will refrain from stepping on anyones toes. If you are happy in your belief then i am happy to coexist in the same space. Peace out.
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Wiki Master
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Wiki Master
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Geemeister, it is not better knowledge it is simply understanding what has been explained to myself and continuous questioning of just about everything. We only learn by questions and answers .
Personally, I am absolutely engaged with the origins and understandings, as without understanding how can we gain anything.
Nobody is stepping on toes, and everyone has their own beliefs which is quite acceptable. I just think that rather than dismissing anything to do with the Bible, we can learn a great deal.
Yes, I believe in Jesus, and an after life as stated at times before, but I have no problem with those who don't, although I do have a problem with those who say it is all poppy cock and also with those who dismiss it all as fantasy. They are obviously not even prepared to open their hearts and consider what these historical books are all about. History, which by any accounts is an extraordinary compilation, and the scribes would have taken immense care and dedication with what to them were the most precious scriptures.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659
Smartchild
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Smartchild
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659 |
I'm going to be controversial and make sweeping statements, i know they don't count for everyone.The thing about religion for me is that most believers are people who are brainwashed from an early age, where they are caught in their formative years and have views drummed into them with the fear of hell damnation. I have more respect for those that have sought out information and developed an understanding that makes them happy in life and pending death regardless of the belief they decide to follow. A lot of christians, for example, mock the thought of the Angel Moroni visiting Joseph Smith (Church of Latter Day Saints or Mormons) yet are more than happy to believe in the angels Michael and Gabriel as if their religion is better than any one elses. To me, the various natives of the Americas or Indian Nations were and are more in tune. They respect the land they live on and resect each others religion.
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Wiki Master
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You'll possibly find that Angel Moroni and Joseph Smith's account, cannot be substantiated.
Unless something can be, then the Church of England can't recognise it, even if the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a Christian restorationist.
I have not really studied the Mormon, but it would appear that what Joseph Smith related was a bit suspect with reference to the gold plates, that he couldn't find, then he found them and nobody saw them (apart from 8 in a locked room) then they were taken back again by Angel Moroni,so there were no gold plates and no cross reference. Very like the Gnostic Gospels, not recognised by the Church due to them not being substantiated.
When I say, not recognised by the Church,I think it really means that they cannot include them in their understandings, in case they are corrupt.
The bible was already compiled long ago, with the angels of Michael and Gabriel and the bible clearly states that nothing should be added or taken away from the texts. Therefore, the Church will obviously have to deal with it.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.
~Chief Seattle
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659
Smartchild
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Smartchild
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 659 |
I would imagine that if the story of Moroni and the gold plates had happened around the same period as the bibles story of the stone tablets that after around two thousand years of telling and retelling that each would have been equaly substantiated. There were apparently eight witnesses to the gold and only one mans word that he heard a voice and was given two stones enscribed by a finger, I know that's a literal interpretation. But who is to say, really, whose story is more plausible. In the light of modern knowledge neither is exactly believable.
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