The time has come my friends to turn the clock back and re-introduce the death penalty. We seem to be restricted by do gooders and European hypocrisy. Our sentences for Murder are the laughing stock of the world. These mindless morons who have put fear into our societies need stopping. The feral gangs that roam around need breaking up. Impose curfews for under 16's. Make car insurance so high that young kids need a proper job to pay for it. Make sentences for drink and dangerous driving so severe that you would be scared to move the needle on your car. Don't be afraid to have your say. Two horrific crimes in 48 hours (RIP kid). Worsening crime and cuts to the Police can only lead to a slippery slope. Trust Politicians at your peril.

I don't really think the death penalty would be a deterrant to most of these people, well in my opinion i'd probaly rather be dead than spend the rest of my life in a jail. And I think car insurance is way too high for young people, my younger brother is 19 just passed his test and his insurance on a 1.2 Vauxhall Corsa is £3,100 annum

Child killers + death penalty OR do what the Yanks do, 100 years in jail, no parole. I was in Scotland a few times over the last few years and you would be amazed how lenient some of the sentances were for murder. One really horrific murder = 12 years!! No sense and not justice.

Im 26 and have been driving for 7 years and I still pay 1100 per year which is far too high.

Well off subject, but just wanted to say have you got 7 years no claims? are you male or female? & do you shop around? Think thats ridiculous, £1100 per year with 7 yrs no claims?

Death because of high car insurance? Seriously...it's not THAT bad

Capital punishment for the most serious crimes, maybe. But I think a major key is turning our prisons into prisons, not holiday homes. Prison is no deterrent. Take away the home comforts, no cable TV, no fully equipped gyms, playstations, mobile phones, pool tables, etc.

Bed, Toilet, maybe some books. Yard for exercise. Limited social interaction.

They are prisoners, there for a reason.

In what way would the death penalty stop murder? The whole point of a punishment is to act as a deterrent but seems as most murders are committed in the heat of the moment it seems little difference will be made. America has capital punishment and from what I can tell crime is still committed over there.

Other than that there is also the obvious point of what happens when somebody is executed and then found to be innocent? And do we not lose our moral high ground when we start to determine whether somebody should live or die. Is the death penalty really about justice as it should be or revenge?

The way the initial poster describes the world you'd think we were living in some sort of post apocalyptic Mad Max type war zone. Sure there are people out there who commit crime but that's nothing new. There has always been crime and there always will be. I'm 22 and I'm more than happy to walk the streets at night without being worried that I'm going to get mugged or killed or whatever.

There have been a few incidents that have been reported in the paper but they are isolated. So two crimes have been committed? That's two in a much larger population where the mass majority have broken no law.

Regarding car insurance needing to go up, that's literally mental. I'm 22 and trying to manage a full time business and my insurance is stupidly high as it is. If it went any higher I'd have to give up being self employed and try and get a more reliable job. But as we know there aren't too many of those about at the moment and so I guess I'd end up on the dole.

A curfew for 16 year olds also seems illogical. What if an 18 year old breaks the law? Or 21? Or even 40? Do we simply set a curfew for everybody?

With all due respect some people just believe everything that they read or hear. Unfortunately the majority of what is reported isn't exactly the best of news it's simply the most interesting. Calls for things like the death penalty to me simply seem like an over reaction to that. For a better argument than I can come up with regarding this please check out this article by Charlie Brooker http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/07/bring-back-the-saw-instead

Many of you will be aware of the Govt website on which you can VOTE for certain e-petitions. If 100,000 signatures are received then the Speaker of Parliament is REQUIRED to bring the issue to the attention of Parliament with a view to either a vote in the House or attention by the Govt.

The recent example was the 150,000 or so signatures received for release of all the papers relating to Hillsborough.

SO - there are several petitions directed at stiffer sentences for certain crimes/ life meaning life/ hard labour for prisoners etc

This link should take you there
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/search?q=life+sentences

However, noteworthy is the TRIVIAL amount of support that these sorts of measures have received. they will never get to the required 100,00. Many will never get to 100

Is the website not publicised enough?
Are the issues simply not that important?
Are the petitions simply wrong?

Snod

Many european and non european countries have national service from 18years of age..no choice..it HAS to be completed! It teaches the lads..(who come out of it men)..self respect, respect for others and to appreciate life. Not all the lads are packed off to war as is a common misconception. For 15months-2 years they serve their country and are proud to tell people they have done this. They energe with a sense of self belief.It also lets them see there is another side to life. Sounds good to me!! Surely it would do some of the scallys on the wirral good to know what discipline and self control mean. It also teaches young men how to take responsibilty for their actions. If you don't agree with that..how about boot camps..surely either option holds some solution towards the problems.

My brother inlaw is from Iran & when his Mother died recently, he could'nt go back to Iran to see his mum off because if he did he would of been arrested & banged up for 3 years. His dad did what any dad would of done when the Iranian/Iraqi war was at full pelt, he got his son out instead of sending him for National Service as he knew he would probably lose him. What would you do? send your son in to war or get him to a safe place?

High car insurance has already proved that young drivers who can't afford to pay it just drive around uninsured!! The feral gangs are a huge problem and with the recent spate of burglarys and car theft in poulton and seacombe, the police are stretched to the limit..It would seem their powers are being systematically taken away by the do-gooders. Enough of the; 'they had a traumatic upbringing and thats why they mugged/stole/stabbed' etc..Everybody on this planet knows right from wrong! You do wrong you pay the price..end of! One rule for all..or is that to easy for the do-gooders to comprehend?

As I said not everyone is sent to fight for their country. I take it he couldn't go back to Iran because he didn't do his national service? I understand the reasons for sending him out of the country, anyone would think about doing the same..but look at the price he has and is paying! He could be mown down by a car, knifed in the street..any one of a hundred bad things could happen to him where he lives now..so the statement of 'probably lose him' is the same as the examples I've stated...possibilities', & not necessarily what will happen. He is currently exiled from his country for not doing what thousands of young men have to do every year. That to me is a high price to pay, for something that might never have happened.

Dont get me wrong, I know where your coming from. young men you say? what age are you talking? Get a grip? He did'nt choose not to fight, his parents decided he was'nt going to fight & rightly so. So what age is acceptable to send these Men out to fight? 14? 15? 16? 17? 18?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

There is the link to Wikipedia. Just comparing the UK with the US as two similar developed countries with similar (deteriorating) cultures, it would appear that tougher sentences and the death penalty do not act as a deterrent to serious crime.

Perhaps if we stopped criminalising our youngsters for everything (as the original poster appears to want to do) and stopped putting them in prison (with no meaningful rehabilitation) where all they do is become trained criminals, we may get a better society.

I will leave you to find the link to show that reoffending rates for those sent to prison is higher than for those given community sentences.

I agree that we are not perfect, but people have to acknowledge that the harder punishments do not work, and that rehabilataion is the better way (as most of the sensible European countries with lower crime rates do).

You're speaking as though you're speaking for the population. I don't share any of your views at all. The death penalty is going backwards.
I'm surprised you said 'Don't be afraid to have your say' - is freedom of speech included in your policy?

How about manipulation of the news that leads people to believing the shite they publish?

The most prolific hangman this country ever had was Albert Pierrepoint, between 1932 and 1956 he hung between 500/600 people. If hanging was a deterrent he would not of still been carrying out his trade in 1933, the very fact that he was and for many years after proves if nothing else one thing, its not a deterrent. On saying that, it is the perfect solution to stop murderers re- offending, so is a life meaning life prison sentence and thats what should be re- introduced.
Man has always killed man and until there are scientific advances that are able to predict who is likely to do so, it will continue. The best we can hope for is removing them from society forever , where they can do no further harm.

Longer and heavier sentences for other misdemeanors I'm all in favour for, would 20 years for drink driving put a stop to it, perhaps, won't know until its tried, 20 years for a house burglar, a street mugger etc, won't know until its tried.
One thing has got to be remembered, no whinging when we have to finance it.

There is an ever growing pocket of society that no longer has respect or value life itself. We are unfortunately heavily influenced by the 'bullshit' media that does nothing but promote unhealthy living and lies. We follow suit with the US time and time again. These kids who sell drugs and get involved with gangs are only doing what they see on TV. There is no deterrent as they only get more educated inside, to both education and crime. For severe crimes were we have 100% evidence or an admission the sentence should be death, reoffending would be erradicated and we wouldn't have rooms taken up in over crowded prisons by people who don't deserve to be on this planet. Penalties need to be harsher for carrying weapons, violence, selling or producing drugs. We have drifted away from loving each other because 'Call of duty' doesn't teach you that. Shooting someone in the face isn't cool, when you are holding half of your friends head in your hand and he's breathing his last it isn't fun, watching a teenager jump off a block of flats because he's been so high that normal life is depressing isn't entertaining. Those who say they can walk down the street with no fear need to speak to people of an older age. Burglaries are up, violent crime is up, reported crime may be down but this is due to lack of confidence in the Police. I'll happily stand at the gallows and wave them all off, no room for ... in my town. Love thy neighbour, but then again you probably don't know who they are.

What about people 'accidentally' killing someone?

Ie: Joe bloggs gets into a fight with Billy bonehead and kills him with one punch.

Wow... what do you drive!? I'm 25, been driving 8 years and I pay half of that.

I accidentally killed someone in 2003. I'm quite glad they don't have the death penalty for accidental death.

Where do you get these facts from? It sounds like it's taken straight from a Daily Mail column.
The only real problem on the Wirral is the typical chav who will never work or contribute to society and only wants to take.
Call me what you like but I don't have a problem with chavs killing chavs. I have no control of how they are policed, I don't care at all for these people. I wouldn't want to line up to see them hung though, that's the type of witch-hunt society the Daily Mail loves to promote.

Weather anyone is in favour of the reintroduction of then death penatly or not, it will never happen in tis country.

What an ignorant comment.

Chavs killing chavs? By the sound of things the boy who was stabbed was special needs harmless and a nice lad in general so where did you get that he was a chav from? If you don't care about it keep it to yourself, It's ignorant self opinionated people like you that think they know it all that make me sick!

Quite.

From what I have heard it sounds like chav kills quiet, innocent and decent boy.

In the eyes of the Law, you take your victim as you find him/her. That's the gamble you take.

Not necessarily.

It's all far too complicated for me to get into at 1:30pm with a hangover, maybe GMF will want to, but my legal studies tell me otherwise.

My thoughts are that one young life has sadly ended and another one ruined. Two sets of family and friends have a lifetime of anguish ahead of them. My thoughts and prayers are with both family s.I am from Cleveland St and have many friends from the area who will as individuals echo all the views expressed on Wiki, this is mine.

Speaking of ignorant comments, Littlebear never said anything about the kid that was stabbed on corpy road. He said chavs killing chavs - he could have been referring to any of the chavs that walk around with sharp pointy things on the wirral. plox 2 lurn 2 read. Plus let's face it, if you saw the pic of the kid that was stabbed he sure did look like a chav.

I don't normally disagree with you but in this instance, I'd say he looked more like a vulnerable kid.

"Accidentally" killing someone would be classed as Manslaughter, murder does require a degree of premeditation, even if just a few seconds.
The "punching someone" would depend on the circumstances, if someone threatened you and you killed him with one punch, Manslaughter, or even Self Defence.

If you just walked up to someone and one punch, Manslaughter, nor even Murder as you would have been "careless" as to an injury being caused, depending on if the punch was premeditated or a spur of the moment thing (you went out looking for someone etc), the law is very rarely cut and dried on these things, if it was we wouldn't need Courts and Juries we could all be sentenced by question and answers on a computer

Yeah I realised that when I saw it was on the death penatly topic I thought it was on the Corporation so that was a mistake on my part.

And I have to agree with alex he does look vulnerable and doesn't really look a full shilling, to me the boy looks totally harmless. People judge by looks too much, never judge a book by its cover, just because of how someone looks or what they wear doesn't make them a chav or a bad person.

The 'thin skull' rule says that the defendant must take his victim as he finds him - if you knock a person to the ground who has such a skull, the defendant should be liable. It is not the victim's fault that he was not blessed with a more substantial skull. Therefore, even if injury or death is not reasonably foreseeable, the law still considers the defendant liable if the victim suffered from some physical or mental condition that made him or her vulnerable.

QFT. Nicely put as well.

I'm aware of the 'thin skull' rule but my personal experience says otherwise. It's not so cut and dry.

I do not think at the moment anything is working. The death penalty has been proven to be flawed ie ppl hung only to be proven innocent later, natonal service as stated above ppl move to another country, probation is a joke. There are no cut and dried answers and i do not think there ever will not in my life time any way x (i am 54) .

Has there ever been any comprehensive papers written showing that national service has any effect at all on crime rates? It seems to be one of those things people think should work, but ultimately doesn't seem to do so because it's inherantly flawed. Much like the death penalty.

If you read my posts I did say its around 18-20..hardly a kid!! The decision was taken out of his hands and he now has to live with the consequences of someone elses actions. I just think its sad that he can no longer return to his home country because of this..even tho I understand the reasons behind the decision. Its not a critisism..its fair comment so no need for your 'get a grip' comment. Uncalled for!

A lot of people demanding national service be brought back probably never did it themselves. If you were born after 1942 then you couldn't have done it as it was abolished in 1960. Well, for those wanting it brought back for all young people, why not try it yourselves too? Would be interesting to see some of the middle-aged Daily Mail-reading keyboards warriors faces when they recieved their mandatory call-ups.

I never understand when people say "if I go back to my country, people from the Government/next village/ex wife's family etc will kill me". Government, yeah I can see they "may" have a list of people, but as for the rest, generally the country is big enough for them to never bump into anyone. Do some people really think they are that important that there will be someone at every airport or port on the off chance, watching for them to arrive.

Customs, immigration?

Excuse me sir, could you please tell me when you were last in the country, and why you left.

If he was smuggled out he might not even have a passport from his home country, and have to travel on his British one.

We are supposed to be a civilized country, even though at times it seems otherwise, many aren't.

at last the voice of sanity..well said!

Looks like you are deliberately missing the point. This is nothing to do with a middle-aged person doing national service. Its about young people with nothing better to do than commit crimes and live a very angry life because they blame society for their situation! MANY people in national service do not go near the frontline and work on or near the service base. Its about teaching them respect for others, self respect, and to instill a sense of dignity in them and a sense of pride that they have served their country. And whilst doing this they may have the chance to learn an important trade.They will have done something with their lives instead of ending up on the wrong side of the law. Surely its a way for them to see a better way of life.. when the alternative is a constant round of drugs, alcahol and crime.And yes I have a son of the relevent age and if he was heading down the drugs route I would be thankful to get him away from it.Its less than 2 years out of their lives ..but its 2 years that can make them realise their full potential and worth.I have witnessed it first hand from many foreign friends..and believe me, it works.

I meant as in someone from next village/ex wife's family etc. But never mind - it's late, I'm tired and I cba.

Why did you think I wasn't referring to any particular incident? If you're going to criticise something, at read it properly.

I find it amazing how anyone can look at a picture of someone & form an opinion of this persons nature without knowing the said person. Looks can be deceptive. He could be covered in tattoos with all sorts of piercings all over his face & be the nicest most caring person your ever likely to meet. But you'd cross the road because you've made your own opinion.

didn't you know bud most on hear do judge a book by it's cover.

didn't you know bud most on hear do judge a book by it's cover. [/quote]

I`ve got a skinhead but it doesn`t mean i`m a nazi.

I think you can tell a lot about a person by looking at their face and into their eyes.

It's more about facial expression than hair style.

That you can do al, it`s a well known fact.

Tell me Alex, what do you see?

That's a picture taken for a certain purpose and therefore totally different.

.

.

Think it's less about what someone looks like and what they've actually done.
The thread wasn't about death penalty for looking mischievous.

i would support the death penalty for cop killers and peado child killers

I would torture them first.

What about other people killers, is there a difference?

this is a civilised country and thankfully these foul ideas will never reach fruition

Stepping beyond Pepper Head being a gimp, why should there be a death penalty for people that kill police officers in particular? How about EMT guys or firemen?

Wait, you're not a policeman are you efc?

Pepperhead probably thinks being called a gimp is a badge of honour.

There are two main reasons for me being against the death penalty. One is that it's impossible to be 100% certain of someone's guilt. Even DNA evidence can be tampered with. The amount of people who have been wrongly convicted of murder and subsequently aquitted is over 50 since 1964. 50 people that would otherwise have been murdered by the State.
Secondly, it's ethically and morally wrong to sink to the level of the killer. A life sentence is enough for murder. Keep buggers like Rose West and Peter Sutcliffe in life for ever.