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Posted By: pablo42 King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 3rd Apr 2012 10:38am
Central Hotel and clock tower, no date

Attached picture 646.jpg
I remember it looking like that.

http://h2g2.com/dna/h2g2/A81497983

Quote
Edward VII memorial clock tower, Clifton Crescent, Birkenhead, Wirral

Isolated and forlorn, this Grade II listed building is situated on a raised grassy triangular plot of land near Birkenhead town centre. Traffic on the fly-over rush past it just metres away on their way to Birkenhead Tunnel. Even on the ground traffic users don't have time to notice this clock tower as they enter a busy round about system. While pedestrians have to be mindful crossing the various roads to notice the tower as it is over shadowed by the imposing fly-over.

This overlooked clock tower is a memorial to the reign of Edward VII (22/1/1901 - 6/5/1910). The tower is roughly 40 to 50 feet in height from it's base and is made from Portland stone (creamy white in colour). The description from the Heritage gateway website states that it has a stepped base to a square rusticated plinth, which seems to mean that the plinth is made to look like large bricks. The plinth on it's four sides has a profile of Edward VII, a relief of the royal coat of arms, the inscription "King Edward VII A.D. 1901 - 1910 Erected by public subscriptions. Arthur W. Willmer mayor A.D. 1911.". The final side has a narrow doorway giving access to an internal stairway, presumably to the clock mechanism. On the main column are four lions in each corner and eight Doric fluted shafts supporting the clock housing. The housing is an elaborate piece of masonry with four clock faces beneath a dome finished with a carving of the Sovereign's orb as its pinnacle.

The overall look of the memorial could be described as classical in style. There is a small amount of graffiti on the plinth. While the plinth and main column are clean, the clock housing looks rather grimy. When the tower was built it was located in front of Birkenhead Central station, a picture taken in 1903 in A century of Birkenhead & Wirral Events (2007) shows the tower in the background. While a picture in Wirral Chronicles volume 1 has a picture from 1938 showing the tower in a different location (its present). It seems that it was moved 50 meters, but for what reason? The nearby flyover was built after 1965. (http://www.tunnelusers.org.uk/history.htm)

On the parcel of land on which it sits on are some disused and locked subterranean public conveniences. Sometimes youths can be seen congregated around the tower, but access is limited to the Central Hotel side of the island.
Posted By: Geekus Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 3rd Apr 2012 11:12am
Originally Posted by pablo42
Central Hotel and clock tower, no date


Could be mid 1960's. That looks like Rolf Harris doing his best Jake the Peg impression (bottom left of picture)!

Posted By: Anonymous Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 3rd Apr 2012 11:18am
Originally Posted by Geekus
Originally Posted by pablo42
Central Hotel and clock tower, no date


Could be mid 1960's. That looks like Rolf Harris doing his best Jake the Peg impression (bottom left of picture)!

raftl Well spotted Geekus !
Posted By: dave_h Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 3rd Apr 2012 12:02pm
says here, http://www.tunnelusers.org.uk/history.htm about 1965 they started building flyovers. he could be doing a survey?
Posted By: jimbob Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 3rd Apr 2012 9:03pm
recon jake the peg was checkin how far out of plumb that lamp post is before it leans that far it fall over
Posted By: jimbob Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 3rd Apr 2012 9:06pm
photo was taken prior to the 42 hour week as its showing 4-30 on the clock so must have been in the days of 5 o'clock finish
does anyone remember when the clock was moved to there i remember it being over towards central station diana 45
Posted By: bert1 Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 3rd Apr 2012 9:50pm
It could only have been moved to accommodate the flyovers, if it was it would be around 1966 ish.
I think it was moved 1914 ish?
I know it's in the same place as in the 1950s
According to most sources it was moved in 1929 to improve access from Argyle Street to the first Mersey Road Tunnel that was then under construction.
Posted By: bert1 Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 4th Apr 2012 2:45pm
I just have this niggle in my head that the clock may have been moved a few feet in the sixties, I certainly remember scaffolding being around it, It may have just appeared so when the landscaping was going on around it.
Posted By: jimbob Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 4th Apr 2012 8:49pm
It was moved in the 60s so that they could get the line they required for the flyover and run of the current road set up arround that area
Posted By: Helles Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 4th Apr 2012 9:07pm
Not one mention of the toilets??
Originally Posted by Helles
Not one mention of the toilets??


I guess that because they were underground they wouldn't need to move them. (There, at least now they've been mentioned). grin
Posted By: jimbob Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 5th Apr 2012 8:43pm
your right Chris, the toilets did not have to be moved. all that happened when the section of road between the Central Hotel and the toilets was widend was the pavement running along side the entrance to the toilets was done away with and the toilets where closed
king edward v11 memorial clock was unveiled on october 24th 1912 and moved in 1929 and again early sixties but not very far i got this from an ian boumphrey book i got for my birthday today diana 45
Posted By: bert1 Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 6th Apr 2012 7:04am
Thanks Diana and Happy Birthday, I thought it had been moved in the sixties, I can put the care home leaflets back in the drawer for a few more weeks.
I can't find any evidence of it being moved during the sixties, and comparing the pre-flyover OS map with a modern Google Maps image seems to show it's still in the same place in relationship to the toilets. It doesn't look to me as if it interfered with the planned flyover route at all...

Attached picture Clock1.jpg
Attached picture Clock2.jpg
It was definitely was moved.
Posted By: yoller Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 6th Apr 2012 3:30pm
The clock definitely WAS moved, but not in the 60s. Here, it is pictured in its original position just across from Central Station in Wilbraham Street. The picture is in a book called A Century of Birkenhead and Wirral, by Cliff Hayes, but is not dated.

Attached picture clock2.jpg
Posted By: Norton Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 6th Apr 2012 6:22pm
I don't think the clock tower was moved for the flyovers, but I still have an element of doubt that I might be wrong. Surely there was enough room to realign the flyover if needed, as the site was being enlarged anyway. The land was not used as a roundabout, as Borough Road took both town and tunnel trafic along its south side, while Clifton Crescent was merely a little backwater serving the Hotel and adjacent premises. It was also two-way, but had traffic lights at one end.
Clifton Crescent was widened at the time at the time of the roadworks, and as mentioned above, it lost its wide pavement opposite the Hotel in preparation for becoming part of the roundabout. As part of the final phase of the works, the piece of land was enlarged into the roundabout as we now know it, and this included a now isolated part of Borough Road.

I hope that no one is confusing the (possible) shift of the clock tower with the actual shift of the column outside the Mersey Tunnel entrance - that being the big black column with the ball on top in true 1930's art deco style.

I've attached some pictures, starting with 1967 during construction works. On the far left is Horsemans car showrooms at the bottom of Argyle St South, opposite the station, while on the far right by the traffic light, is Taffy's Carpets showroom. One of the two people in the middle is a traffic warden. For comparison is a photo from earlier this year.
The third photo was taken on the flyover open day in 1969, just before it opened to traffic, and from the Conway Street flyover. The ammount of space avaliable to clear the flyover is quite apparent. The busy road in the forground, taking two way traffic to the tunnel, is now Borough Road East. First road on the left is Thomas Street. The next road is the end of the link flyover from New Chester Road, but next to it is Hind Street, which emerges up from the side of the gasworks and along the side of Central station where it joins Borough Road. Note the wooden hut - it was a taxi office (for Murphys, I think.) A similar one stood outside the pumping station at Woodside, between Canning St and Shore Rd.


Description: Clifton Crescent, 1967.
Attached picture A4CFBb37rw.jpg

Description: Clifton Crescent, 2012.
Attached picture IMG_1531Arw.jpg
The original move of the Clock Tower took place between the end of March and mid-May 1929, and seems to have been carried out by James Griffiths, the monumental masons whose yard was at the top of Bidston Avenue opposite the entrance to Flaybrick Cemetery. The following pics from the Birkenhead News documented the move...


Description: 13th March 1929
Attached picture PTDC1.JPG

Description: 3rd April 1929
Attached picture PTDC2.JPG

Description: 10th April 1929
Attached picture PTDC3.JPG

Description: 15th May 1929
Attached picture PTDC4.JPG
Posted By: Helles Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 6th Apr 2012 8:24pm
Very interesting photo's those. Scaffolding must have been a hell of an art in those days. Just ropes and the ability to tie proper knots.
Posted By: Norton Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 6th Apr 2012 9:27pm
Great find from the 'news' - thanks.

I'd assumed that it would have been part stripped down, jacked up onto a trolley and somehow rolled across the road. It seems that it was done stone by stone. What a job!

Anybody notice, in the first picture of this post, that there is a bus on the far right? It looks like a Wallasey Atlantean, due to position of wheel arch to a vertical rib, probably the front door, and the relative sizes of the windows between upper and lower decks, as per Weyman Orion styling (as in MCW bodybuilders). The 11 went over Charing Cross, and the 10 went via Central Station, but I can't remember which way after that.

Anyway, there was an error earlier, and my intended third picture didn't get attached. So here it is again (I hope..)

This was taken on the open day in 1969, just before it opened to traffic, and from the Conway Street flyover.
The busy road in the forground, taking two way traffic to the tunnel, is now Borough Road East. First road on the left is Thomas Street. The next road is the end of the link flyover from New Chester Road, but next to it is Hind Street, which emerges up from the side of the gasworks and along the side of Central station where it joins Borough Road. Note the wooden hut - it was a taxi office (for Murphys, I think.) A similar one stood outside the pumping station at Woodside, between Canning St and Shore Rd.


Description: 1969
Attached picture A4CFBe14WD.jpg
Posted By: diana45 Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 6th Apr 2012 11:00pm
i have spent ages going through my books an i cant find anything about it being moved in sixties sorry for my mistake but i can remember scaffold being round it in sixties so i jumped to wrong conclusion sorry again
Posted By: Anonymous Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 6th Apr 2012 11:12pm
The type of bus in the first pic. is a bit of a puzzle. The whole "feel" of that photo says wartime (ish). As mentioned on another post, the fresh looking white blackout stripes around the traction poles. That lone wire less traction pole near Jake the Peg had not been converted to streetlamp use and maybe awaits removal. The tram tracks are still uncovered in the forground. IMHO it's too early a pic for an Atlantian to be around. I'm going to stick my neck out here and say it was B'head Corpy No.185. A lone example of an AEC "Q" type. It entered service in July 1933 and was withdrawn in June 1940. It was very advanced for it's day. Forward entrance (a la Atlantian) and had the same styling as a brick (a la Atlantian) but the engine was behind the driver and stuffed under the stairs !! Blank front with radiator halfway along the offside. A right weirdo. The Corpy only bought one. The design never took off. It was the last petrol engined bus to run. They went over to the oilers after that.

Just my 2d worth.
Posted By: yoller Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 7th Apr 2012 12:14am
Are you sure that picture was taken from the Conway Street flyover?
Originally Posted by Pinzgauer
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say it was B'head Corpy No.185. A lone example of an AEC "Q" type. It entered service in July 1933 and was withdrawn in June 1940. It was very advanced for it's day. Forward entrance (a la Atlantian) and had the same styling as a brick (a la Atlantian) but the engine was behind the driver and stuffed under the stairs !! Blank front with radiator halfway along the offside. A right weirdo. The Corpy only bought one. The design never took off. It was the last petrol engined bus to run. They went over to the oilers after that.

Just my 2d worth.


Couple of pictures of Birkenhead Corporation No 185:

Attached picture birkenhead_185_1.jpg
Attached picture birkenhead_185_2.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 7th Apr 2012 7:59am
Thanks for posting the pictures uptoncx. Interesting to note that the route number was displayed in the upper deck front windows. Tens in one window, units in the other.
Posted By: Stegga Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 7th Apr 2012 10:57am
Can anyone work out where the pictures of the 185 were taken? I thought the first one was outside Central Station but the buildings on the opposite side of the road are wrong. Any ideas?
2nd pic possibly Laird School of Art over the road from Birkenhead Park main entrance?
Is that a tram on the right side of 1st pic?
Judging by the folks getting off it may be at the end of its destination Liscard
Posted By: Anonymous Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 7th Apr 2012 12:00pm
You are spot on derekdwc. 2nd pic is outside the Laird School of Art. The first one I too thought initially was outside B'head Central Station. The tram emerging from the right looks like a Wallasey Car. The buildings to the left don't ring right, neither do the buildings (?) in the background. I can't think of the name of the roads involved BUT it's on the outskirts of Liscard. The shops had that cast iron canopy up moons ago. Someone local could nail it down I'm sure.
2nd pic possibly the row of shops to the right of the Boot Inn
when facing it
Posted By: Anonymous Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 7th Apr 2012 1:18pm
Ermmm. You mean the 1st bus pic ? (Passengers alighting). My brain hurts. It's a bit early for you to have been on the cooking sherry Derek !
Originally Posted by Pinzgauer
You are spot on derekdwc. 2nd pic is outside the Laird School of Art. The first one I too thought initially was outside B'head Central Station. The tram emerging from the right looks like a Wallasey Car. The buildings to the left don't ring right, neither do the buildings (?) in the background. I can't think of the name of the roads involved BUT it's on the outskirts of Liscard. The shops had that cast iron canopy up moons ago. Someone local could nail it down I'm sure.


The cast iron canopy is/was on Wallasey Road, between the Boot,as Derek says, and Torrington Road. (current view shown below)

Attached picture Wallasey Road.png
Posted By: Norton Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 7th Apr 2012 7:10pm
The tram carries the letters 'WD' for Warren Drive, which didn't go past the boot, but down Seaview Road and Liscard Road.
Bus 185 was delivered on 13th July 1933, and the last Wallasey tram ran on 30th November of that year.
185 was the first Birkenhead bus to be delivered in blue and was the last petrol engined bus to be purchased by BCT.
'The Birkenhead Bus' carries the same picture, credited to AEC, the makers, and says it is outside the Capitol cinema in Liscard.
Posted By: uptoncx Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 7th Apr 2012 10:34pm
The first picture is, as Norton says, is outside the Capitol cinema in Liscard, and the second, as Derek says, is outside the School of Art, by Trinity Street. Both pictures are dated 1933.
Posted By: Helles Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 8th Apr 2012 9:38am
Trams finished in 1933. Looks very much like they are building the new Wellington pub behind the bus in the Liscard one. There were loads of those cast iron and glass canopies dotted around Wallasey and probably Birkenhead for all I know.
The bus passengers are definitely alighting outside the Capitol, as the glass canopy there had it's supports in pairs, as is clearly shown in the photo, but if it is the new Wellington being built behind the hoardings in the background that presents a slight dating problem, as Ian Boumphrey in Yesterday's Wirral No.3 says the foundations for the new pub weren't laid until June 1936...
Posted By: Norton Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 12th Apr 2012 12:51pm
To expand on that -
"A plot next to The Wellington Hotel on the Seaview Road side was purchased as the site for a replacement... foundations laid in 1936. The old pub was demolished and the site is now part of Wallasey Road."

I now know that there were hoardings at the end of Seaview Road in 1931. Therefore the hoarding that we see in the picture of the Q bus outside the Capitol is not there to hide the building of the new Wellington, but were there already, hiding an empty plot of land. I would suggest that the original dating of that picture of the alighting passengers as being 1933 is correct.

The attached picture is made from frame captures from the video "Life & Times" 'Memories of Merseyside' published by the Liverpool Echo in the early 90's.
Note the policeman on point duty, the front of the Capitol with its canopy and the shops either side - Marriots and Barclays Bank. The Capitol is showing 'Monkey Buisness', which was released in 1931. The pole in the middle of the former 'Monkey House' carries not road signs, but mileage signs on its arms.

Then can we get back on topic and try and date or generally extract any more info from the original picture of the Clock?


Description: The Capitol, Liscard. 1931.
Attached picture Capitol_1931.jpg
Posted By: Stegga Re: King Edward Memorial Clock Tower, Birkenhead - 12th Apr 2012 1:59pm
Excellent bit of detective work there Norton. Well done
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