Forums
Posted By: Kelpy Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 12:49am
Wirral History and Heritage Assoc

Does anyone know what this organsation is. From what I glean they undertake the work formerly done by Wirral BC i.e. the Wirral history fair and producing the Heritage openday booklet.

I believe the Chairman previously published a letter in a Wirral newspaper advocating and supporting the closure of Wirral`s libaries. I find this a strange thing for the chair of a heritage Assoc to undertake and surmise the WH&HA must be a Wirral BC financed agency pretending to represent Wirral`s heritage and history groups.

As the membeship is does not require payment surely they can add any group to the membership list and so claim to represent all Wirral heritage groups/socities.

The threee local groups I am a member have not heard from the WHHA but one is listed as a member although it does not recall applying.

Very strange.

Does anyone have a list of the WHHA memeber groups as my emails to the WHHA go unanswered.
Posted By: RUDEBOX Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 2:21am
My emails inviting support for the Opening of the Bidston and Tranmere Air Raid Shelters, as a public attraction, were also ignored or unanswered. frown
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 7:45am
Didn't even know we had an Assoc. !!
Posted By: Tatey Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 8:22am
Never heard of them!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 9:33am
If they are pig-ignorant enough not to even acknowledge Rude's email(s), then I'm sorry - they don't exist !

It costs nowt to reply - even if it's only to say "NO - please go away in short sharp jerky movements".

Wirral's history and rich heritage is far too important to be allowed to be sullied by this unheard of group of pretentious little twits of no importance !

WHHA... "If" you are out there, have the ability to read AND can understand the words manners and etiquette, your reply, along with associated excuses are eagerly awaited.

Rude..... Will send you a pm re: the above later.
Posted By: Archaeo Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 10:43am
I'd be interested to hear more from this group, they don't seem to advertise what they do particularly well.

I've sat on both sides of the fence with archaeology so to speak, I've been involved with countless academic excavations, but have also been paid (although the industry is on its knees at present) for a commercial archaeology firm and therefore know how councils operate when it comes to preserving sites.

Wirral doesn't have its own unit (it is sort of covered by Liverpool) so when something appears they have a few options...firstly, if land is being redeveloped by a private contractor, they can get them to pay for a professional archaeological unit to excavate and most importantly write up a report of the findings. If it's council development, they have the same option to pay for a professional team or they can hand it over to local "archaeologists" who are happy to run a third-rate dig on the land with no publications whatsoever in return for expenses, thereby saving the council a fortune.

Unfortunately for us, Wirral take the latter approach on this as far as I've seen. There's also a worrying amount of people running round Wirral claiming they are archaeologists, when in fact they are no more than treasure-hunters.

The reason I bring this up is that the WHHA seems firmly in bed with WBC and I wonder how much easier it is for the council to close historic buildings etc if they have a nice advisory group to back them up.

I could be totally wrong here, and if I am I will be the first to offer a humble apology. Just my two cents worth.

Posted By: Tatey Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 10:51am
Wirral History and Heritage Assoc

If you "Google" this title, it comes up with several hits. None of them very new or informative. But it does tell a tale.
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 5:40pm
Hello deano606

Re:"The reason I bring this up is that the WHHA seems firmly in bed with WBC and I wonder how much easier it is for the council to close historic buildings etc if they have a nice advisory group to back them up."

I suspect there may be some truth in your comment as I know a few people invovled in protecting Wirral`s built heritage who are never consulted by WBC. It would seem if there are no listed building experts on WHHA then WBC is probally relying on this Assoc to qualify their demolition program
Posted By: Archaeo Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 6:44pm
I'm not entirely sure if this is the raison d'etre for the group, but it would certainly help the council. Who are the group members?
Posted By: Roslynmuse Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 7:08pm
The website is very thin to say the least. 'What we do' consists of the word 'mission' then... ...silence.

Apparently there's a 'Fair' at B'head Town Hall on 5th March.
Posted By: RUDEBOX Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 7:15pm
That was good, last years event, i must say.
Posted By: Archaeo Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 7:48pm
I've no doubt that this group is likely to be made up of well meaning local experts, it's not their intentions I doubt, it's just how the council use them!
Posted By: Geekus Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 8:56pm

Ever since the demise of the Civic Trust, the WHHA have taken it upon themselves to promote Wirral Heritage by continuing the annual Heritage Open Days, etc. Whilst this in itself is definitely worthwhile, it's only right for us to question the relationship between this organisation and Wirral Borough Council.

Local newspapers have reported before that the WHHA are actively involved in helping identify Wirral 'Buildings at Risk' but I doubt they have sufficient expertise or political clout to really be effective in saving any of these sites unless, of course, it happens to fit in with existing WBC plans for Tourism & Leisure.

When you consider that for years national organisations, like English Heritage, have repeatedly identified similar Wirral Buildings as at risk but without anything ever being done to secure these buildings, what hope is there for an organisation like WHHA being successful when so few people from the Wirral itself have ever even heard of them.
Posted By: scoops Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 9:04pm
Another item of curiosity for me, is why their domain name was registered by a marketing company.
Posted By: MissGuided Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 9:44pm
What a peculiar website - very unfinished - almost like it was set up just for the sake of it being set up. Maybe so they can quote the web address. Like a dummy website... think
Posted By: Archaeo Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 4th Jan 2011 9:51pm
domain names are often registered by marketing and web companies on behalf of clients.
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 5th Jan 2011 4:06am
I have since been informed that the web site was set up with £6000 plus of Heritage Lottery funding.

What a waste of public money.

How anyone can charge that amount for so little information is beyond belief.

I think the Audit Commision should look into whether this a value for money.
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 5th Jan 2011 4:13am
I googled WHHA and got this disturbing link.

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/8...nisations_can_bid_for_more_lottery_cash/

I sincerely hope some fool Wirral Councilors MEPs or MPs does not give them any more lottery money to squander.
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 5th Jan 2011 4:18am
From what I can glean the WHHA Chairman, Mr Ellison, advocated the closure of Wirral libaries in the local press...very odd for a heritage group

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Letter%3A+A+local+timebomb.-a0189911451
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 5th Jan 2011 4:19am
WHHA Letter: a local timebomb. - free online library

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/letter%3a+a+local+timebomb.-a0189911451
Posted By: bunnygirl Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 6th Jan 2011 12:43pm
The WHHA have done a great deal of good work, including the HOD events and also the local history fair which again will take place this year at Birkenhead Town Hall building. I think really the Association is still finding its feet and the current new Chairman is best placed to do this. Unfortunately there have been problems with the website but this should soon be resolved when a new web master is found. Again, a newsletter or leaflet describing their activities would be excellent and again there are hopefully plans to do this. The WHHA have had some excellent officers on the Committee, including, yes some Council Officers, who I might add do good heritage work, including Wirral's Heritage Liaison Officer & Conservation Officer & also Wirral's Heritage Champion. There were, and still are some members within the Association conversant with all English Heritage & listed building legislation and indeed, recent newspaper coverage has highlighted the effects of poor planning decisions etc. Whilst it may appear the presence of Council Officers might prejudice heritage decisions taken and discussed, this really is not the case and the Association have made great strides in actually working alongside Officers to create a buildings of interest list for Wirral, which will be formalised once new English Heritage guidance is produced shortly.
Posted By: Geekus Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 6th Jan 2011 2:20pm
Are we to assume from your comments that you are a member of the WHHA committee? If so can you clarify the funding situation for this organisation and reassure Wirral residents that none of your members act as paid consultants to WBC?

Posted By: OxtonHill Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 6th Jan 2011 2:43pm
Originally Posted by bunnygirl
Council Officers, who I might add do good heritage work


Must be talking about a different Council, than Wirral blush
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 6th Jan 2011 5:13pm
Can you please explain what "great deal of good work" the WHHA has undertaken. As a Wirral resident, I am not aware of them or you undertaking anything Wirral BC should be doing in the first instance. Indeed I am a memeber of heritage groups and we have NEVER HEARD OF YOUR ASSOC.

I suspect you are invovlved with WHHA and are the nominated appologist for this group claiming or misclaiming to represent local groups that you certainly do not.

You have confirmed my concerns that this and your organsation is a agency of Wirral BC whilst claiming to represent Wirral Heritage groups. Please list the membership if one does exist. I cannot find any details on how groups or individuals join your assoc and you would think this would be available on your website.

THe WHHA is more than likely a group of self nominated busy bodies paid by Wirral BC.

Can you also please confirm that your Chairman sent a letter to the local press advocating the closure of Wirral libraries?
Posted By: Archaeo Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 6th Jan 2011 5:17pm
Sounds good bunnygirl. Here's hoping a new website will go a long way to explaining the role of the organisation to interested members of the public.
Posted By: rocketqueen Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 6th Jan 2011 5:18pm
Originally Posted by Kelpy
I have since been informed that the web site was set up with £6000 plus of Heritage Lottery funding.

What a waste of public money.

How anyone can charge that amount for so little information is beyond belief.

I think the Audit Commision should look into whether this a value for money.




omg how disgusting and wat a waste of resources.....

Originally Posted by bunnygirl
The WHHA have done a great deal of good work, including the HOD events and also the local history fair which again will take place this year at Birkenhead Town Hall building. I think really the Association is still finding its feet and the current new Chairman is best placed to do this. Unfortunately there have been problems with the website but this should soon be resolved when a new web master is found. Again, a newsletter or leaflet describing their activities would be excellent and again there are hopefully plans to do this. The WHHA have had some excellent officers on the Committee, including, yes some Council Officers, who I might add do good heritage work, including Wirral's Heritage Liaison Officer & Conservation Officer & also Wirral's Heritage Champion. There were, and still are some members within the Association conversant with all English Heritage & listed building legislation and indeed, recent newspaper coverage has highlighted the effects of poor planning decisions etc. Whilst it may appear the presence of Council Officers might prejudice heritage decisions taken and discussed, this really is not the case and the Association have made great strides in actually working alongside Officers to create a buildings of interest list for Wirral, which will be formalised once new English Heritage guidance is produced shortly.



£6000 and it is stuffed already......jeez

where did u get it from ICELAND
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 6th Jan 2011 11:50pm
It all appears very secretive considering council officer are on the ~WHHA comittee
Posted By: Historybook Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 7th Jan 2011 7:49am
Originally Posted by bunnygirl
The WHHA have done a great deal of good work, including the HOD events and also the local history fair which again will take place this year at Birkenhead Town Hall building.



Will the WHHA be supporting the National mills open weekend this year ?.

And dose the WHHA cover all of Wirral or just the bit at the end such as Birkenhead, Wallasey etc ?.
Posted By: bunnygirl Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 7th Jan 2011 10:32am
Just to clarify some points:-
Council Officers are not voted onto the Committee, they are just present at meetings. Wirral Council should be applauded for actually wanting such a group and it certainly is moving in the right direction in terms of heritage!
No committee members are paid - it is purely voluntary.
It's not a secret organisation - it just needs direction!
I am afraid I am not aware of what funding is available and what has been spent and quite honestly cannot comment on this.
Insofar as the Chairman's letter to the paper was concerned, this was no doubt his personal view.
I personally take great offence at the term 'self nominated busy bodies'. You are referring to highly skilled and intelligent heritage professionals who are concerned about UK heritage. If it wasn't for these 'self nominated busy bodies' then attention wouldn't have been drawn to the fate, for example, of the Great Eastern public house and indeed, the preparation of a list of 'all' Wirral's buildings of interest or at risk, whatever you want to call them, which are not officially recogised as such by English Heritage. And no I am not a member of WHHA!
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 7th Jan 2011 10:39am
didn't a wikiwirral member organise a petition and hounded the council about the Great Eastern
Posted By: BandyCoot Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 7th Jan 2011 10:57am
Just had a look at the WHHA website, what a sad experience. 6K? If a new webmaster is needed then it looks like someone has seen a 6k opportunity and then done a runner, just my opinion as to what it looks like. The WikiWirral crowd does a better job of promoting the Wirral than that sad effort. Promised details to be published by end of December 2010, they are still not there so obviously the dead hand of the council is involved there somewhere. Some dynamic leadership is needed with WHHA I think to get it up and running properly, someone who is not just interested in a nice little earner.
Posted By: OxtonHill Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 7th Jan 2011 11:40am
I contacted the WHHA website approx 8mnths ago giving the secretary a list of links to websites which were of local interest including mine for St. Mary's Church, to give her credit she put the links up. Been back since this posting started and the links are gone.

Given that for most of us the first impression you get these days are from the organisations webpage the WHHA is very poor quality, and I cannot believe 6K was used soley to produce that.You can do better than that using free sites.

Look at the Oxton Society webpage to name a good local heritage site.
http://78.110.174.6/~oxtons/index.php
(I'm not a member)
Posted By: Geekus Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 7th Jan 2011 12:22pm
You can see from people's reactions, Bunnygirl, that local history & heritage is very important to Wirral residents. Take a look at some of the recent history threads on Wikiwirral and you will see that people are greatly saddened, and indeed angry, that so much of our heritage is disappearing. These things matter because they not only represent our shared past but are an integral part of our very identity.

There is a great deal of frustration with WBC's handling of heritage matters, and if the WHHA is be accepted in any way as representing Wirral's best interests then there is a clear need for greater transparency. It's plain to see that people are fed up that their voices are not being heard, and you can understand their unwillingness to accept representation from a group that few have ever even heard of.

Whether you are a member of this committee or not, you obviously know a lot about the organisation and its members. We can only accept your word that those members are indeed 'highly skilled and intelligent heritage professions', because the public perception of things is clearly very different.
Posted By: nightwalker Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 7th Jan 2011 12:36pm
Totally agree, geekus. A perfect summary of the situation. It would be interesting to hear WHHA's views on the current marketing of Bird's House and St. John's Church in Wallasey.
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 7th Jan 2011 11:16pm
I think bunnygirl is probally the Chairman of WHHA as she appears to know more than most or more correctly ANYONE ON WIRRAL about this secretive organsation/Wirral BC agency.
Posted By: bunnygirl Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 9th Jan 2011 2:38pm
Dear Kelpy, you obviously haven't read my earlier posts - its not a secretive organisation/WBC agency and no I am NOT the Chairperson & correction to Oxton Hill, don't always assume secretary's are a 'her'.
Posted By: Geekus Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 9th Jan 2011 4:23pm
I'm sorry if people are giving you a hard time, bunnygirl, it's not the best of welcomes to the world of Wikiwirral is it? You're perfectly entitled to put across a case for defending the WHHA, but at the end of the day "action speaks louder than words".

I can only repeat what has already been said about the WHHA's public profile. It really is important that people can see (and believe in) the WHHA's objectives. If I were one of those heritage professions you say are on the committee, I would be outraged with the current state of affairs. I mean, who would want to risk their reputations by being associated with an organisation that appears to be so unprofessional.

Wirral deserves better, don't you think?
Posted By: OxtonHill Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 9th Jan 2011 4:27pm
Originally Posted by bunnygirl
correction to Oxton Hill, don't always assume secretary's are a 'her'.


As it was I that contacted them I should know if the name on the email was a male or female and it was FEMALE and that makes it a "her" does it not?

If it's not a secretive organisation can you tell us where to get a list of its officers or Committe members please? somad
Posted By: Kelpy Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 9th Jan 2011 11:02pm
From Wirral BC I assume
Posted By: Archaeo Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 11th Jan 2011 1:10pm
For me, the term "professional" means that you are paid to do your job. I'd expect a Heritage professional to be employed by English Heritage or the like.
Posted By: nightwalker Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 11th Jan 2011 1:26pm
Have just discovered a copy of the glossy (and, to be honest, excellent!) brochure issued by WHHA for the Heritage Open Day event last September. At that time the Chair was Len Ellison and Vice Chair was Simon Petris. A bit worrying is that all postal contact (for info or to apply for membership) is c/o Williamson Art Gallery, which as far as I know is still run by the Council.
Posted By: OxtonHill Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 11th Jan 2011 2:07pm
Found this link to a old WHHA flyer, has some names & numbers

http://www.aboutmyarea.co.uk/doclib/484_28fmkq331g_WHHA%20HOD%20Final%20Brochure%20PDF.pdf
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 11th Jan 2011 3:26pm
To maybe balance the posts a bit after my negative reaction earlier...... I see Simon Petris's name mentioned. I must say that I spoke to him a couple of times a few years ago and found him to be an honest and hard working guy for the community.

I was then a member of the Friends of Tranmere Tunnels. They battled hard and long to try and persuade WBC to say something else other than "N0 - bugger off" when the re-opening of the shelters was mooted.

As we know, nothing came of those early efforts, but it wasn't for the want of trying by Simon and others in the group. When I saw Simon's name name associated with the WHHA, I thought I may get a small slice of Humble Pie for tea tonight !!
Posted By: Geekus Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 13th Jan 2011 10:51am
Well said, Pinzgauer.

Personally, I have no doubt whatsoever about the integrity of Wirral's many local history groups and conservation societies. What I'm not so clear about is what the WHHA's role is specifically supposed to be. Are they meant to act as a unifying organisation, helping unite all the seperate local groups under one 'umberella' so to speak, thus making them more effective in promoting heritage issues? If so, upon who's authority are they doing this? Did Wirral's other local societies ask for this; are the WHHA self appointed spokesmen for Wirral heritage; or was WBC involved?

At the moment, there appear to be a lot more questions than answers. But wouldn't you think that if the WHHA was set up to represent ALL of Wirral's local heritage groups, then each of these groups would be allowed a representative on the WHHA's committee?


Posted By: BandyCoot Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 13th Jan 2011 11:36am
There certainly doesn't appear to be a method of finding out who or what they are, speaking as a relative stranger to the area.
Posted By: safehaven Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 2nd Feb 2011 12:04am
As someone who has previously been involved with the WHHA, I cannot understand the problems some of the posters appear to have with the Assoc. It was set up a few years ago by local people concerned about Wirral`s history and heritage. It is not a WBC organisation and the members of the WHHA committee work hard promoting Wirral heritage without payment from any source including WBC.

If the original poster of this thread has had difficulty in receiving a reply to her enquiry from the WHHA them this is probably due to nothing more than an over sight and nothing more.

Rob Ainsworth

Posted By: derekdwc Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 2nd Feb 2011 9:03am
some organisation
Nothing on website, no replies to emails
An email was sent by a wiki member over a week ago asking what time Angus Tilston MBE will be providing a free local History film show in the Conference Room where light refreshment can be obtained for a modest price.
Another oversight nothing more?
Will there be a stand or representatives of WHHA at the town hall this saturday.
Need to be reminded to look if I forget
Posted By: Geekus Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 2nd Feb 2011 9:54am
If it's possible, Rob, then perhaps you might get in touch with the present WHHA on behalf of Wiki members and let them know about these concerns and comments. Nobody else seems to be able to get an official response, and that's only continuing to damage their credibility.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 2nd Feb 2011 1:22pm
Certainly the website is essentially a blank; why bother setting up a site if you're not even going to explain what the mission of your organisation is?
BTW, Derek, the fair is 5th.MARCH
Posted By: RUDEBOX Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 2nd Feb 2011 2:22pm
We won't let you forget Derek.
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 2nd Feb 2011 5:59pm
Thanks chriskay


mixed up my months although feb 5 is a saturday
Posted By: bunnygirl Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 10th Feb 2011 12:14pm
I have made the WHHA aware of these concerns so let's see what happens. Please support the Heritage Fair on 5th March at Birkenhead Town Hall - this will be a good opportunity for you all to raise concerns with committee members - they should have a table set aside for themselves as they are organising the event.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Wirral History and Heritage Assoc - 10th Feb 2011 1:12pm
We look forward to being able to question the committee members at the Heritage Fair.
© Wirral-Wikiwirral