First of all i would like to thank and acknowledge information and map contributed by Uptoncx.

The camp area's present address is Old TA site, Arrowe Park Rd, Upton, Wirral. Around 1965 i attended on a regular basis the 63rd Cheshire's Army Cadet Force, also on site was an Air Cadet sq and a TA regiment. Any information would be much appreciated other than i have to hand. The land was requisitioned from Arrowe house Farm which was sited where the Champion spark plug factory was on the corner of Arrowebrook rd and Arrowe Park rd. Over 21 acres were taken by the war department for emergency purposes which i assume being ( emergency purposes ) would have been around 1940. In 1947 the camp was described as a ( A. A. O. D. ) site, Anti aircraft ordinance depot. The map below has 2 shaded areas, the pink area is as i remember it and was that way until recently i assume, the green shaded area was not there as part of the camp in 1965 and more about that later.

A Map as i remember the use of buildings and a letter concerning the green shaded area that was De-requisitioned. also what the area of farm land was used for.

So this is where the Police, Driving Test and Job Centre are now. Was that area called Upton Meadow or something similar?

Here is the 1972 aerial of the area west of where the police station is now.

And here is 1997 aerial with some of the remains....

The police station was not built on the MOD land,in fact it was built around 1935, before the land was requisitioned.

The sorting office and the driving test centre are both built on the MOD land.



Upton Meadow never really existed, there has never been a field called Upton Meadow. The name was coined in 1982 to refer to the 50 acres from the MOD land (where Sainsburys is now) to Greasby Road.

After the MOD moved out (I think in the 1970s) BT opened a TEC (Telephone Engineering Centre) on the site. It must have been later than the 1972 aerial photo as there are no cable drums or BT vehicles about.

BT moved the TEC to the telephone exchange in Church Road, and the site was used for a period as an HGV driver test centre. The 1997 aerial photo shows that BT had moved out by then.

Thanks Upton, might have a wander round the site sometime, I remember the TA sign somewhere along that stretch, but everything has changed so much that it doesn't trigger much else. It is certainly a quiet place, only found one reference to the site so far and is missing off a number of WW2 databases. I was going to ask if there was any American link to the site, but it is probably not big enough.

Strange location for Ordnance Storage, most of them have a link to a railway. Is there any chance there was a gunsite very close? Nearest HAA seems to be Hoylake or Prenton, but no doubt RAF West Kirby had some guns. The only thing that can be said for the site is it is just about the only place on the Wirral without a military target near it, so probably the best place for Ordnance.

Good post. Didnt know any of that. Is that on your webiste Uptoncx? it should be. Interesting.

[quote=diggingdeeper I was going to ask if there was any American link to the site, but it is probably not big enough.
. [/quote]

When i was there in my cadet days i did hear there was yanks prior to D-Day, but i can't find anything on it.

Ok - conspiracy theory time. I can't believe an Ordnance storage would not have a railway link.

AAOD - I can only find a few possible locations of these and they are located in the weirdest of places.

Wednesfield
Walsgrave on Sowe
Upton
Kidbrook
Weyhill
York
Inchinnan

Only one person on the internet worked at a AAOD and there is no Military department mentioning AAOD

The layout of the site is all wrong for Ordnance it should either be wide spacing between buildings or a big building(s), Upton has loads of small buildings close together.

I can't find any link between AAOD and RAOC.

I think we need to find out what the site was really used for and what AAOD really did.

OK, I have a reference in a 1940 parish magazine to "... the soldiers of the RAOC billeted at Greenbank House and working at the ammunition depots down Arrowe Park Road".

and in another "In November the traditional hotpot supper was held in the Eagle and Crown with guests from the officers of the RAOC now stationed in the village".

The reference to AAOD comes from two seperate articles, one from Cheshire Life, March 1951 which states: "Attached to the regiment is a R.E.M.E unit (113 Assault Regiment (special) Workshops, R.E.M.E.) commanded by Major H Jones which parades at 64 A.A.O.D. Site, Upton, Wirral".

The small , close together buildings in the green shaded area in my view are the billets and living quarters of any occupational regiment. That being the area de-requisitioned after the war as it would not be needed for a TA site. The ammunition bunkers as you can see on the map were well away from the main living area of the camp. The bunkers as i remember them were not constructed from brick with a concrete slab on top, the were constructed from solid concrete completely with the obvious steel doors and surrounded by a blast wall of concrete and banked up earth, the size of these 3 structures were big enough to keep more than a few ack ack going.

This from http://www.charles-de-gaulle.org/article.php3?id_article=162
French volunteers were recruited primarily from units arriving from Norway or Dunkirk : in June 1940 these units were quartered in camps around the ports, particularly on the Channel and North Sea coasts and around Liverpool. Infantry units were quartered at Trentham Park near Stoke on Trent and at Arrowe Park near Liverpool,
Not sure if this is part of what is being discussed.

Found this on http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=272085.msg2568335;topicseen
A bit late replying I'm afraid, but the camp was on Arrowe Park Road by where the Royal Mail sorting office is now.

From December 1947 it housed 113 Assault Engineer Regiment Workshops. In the early 60s it was home to the 63rd (I think) Cheshire army cadet force. 2184 squadron Air Cadets are still on a small part of the site.

After closing the site became a British Telecom Engineering Centre, and then an HGV driver training centre. What remains of the site is now demolished, derelict and for sale.

Here is a link to the Royal Engineers at Harrowby Rd Birkrnhead
http://www.reahq.org.uk/index.php?page=birkenhead
And here is some info from the Halton Libraries Catalogue:
The Cheshire Royal Engineers, now 113 Assault Engineer Regiment: A Regimental History
by Davies, T R (Compiler)
np (1950)
Format:
Pamphlets
Notes:
204860
19c, 20c, Volunteers, Territorial Army, auxiliary forces, reserve forces, armed forces, Birkenhead, Wirral, Boer War, South African War, First World War, Second World War
Contents:
Concise yet detailed account from 1860 onwards. As 2nd Cheshire Field Company RE(T) it was the first Territorial engineer unit to go to France in 1914, and as 2nd (Cheshire) Field Squadron RE(TA) it was the last engineer formation in the British Army to retain its horses (given up 1937)

Went for a walk around there this morning and as expected nothing left, far to much other activity gone on since the camp closed, a few mounds of heavy concrete here and there. it also appears the De- requisitioned land is to far over grown to fight your way through it. Its up for sale and would have a better view if they ever start to clear it.

I realise I chopped the ammo bunkers off the 1972 pictures above, so here is a better picture of them.

I thought they look very small for a storage facilty compared to a HAA site, as a rough guideline EACH GUN on a HAA site had about 1000 cubic feet of storage, a site normally had 3 or 4 guns, making say 4000 cubic feet of storage for each HAA site.

But I realise now, those bunkers are HUGE, I am guessing 150 X 50 X 10 feet. Which gives 25000 cubic feet per bunker = 75000 cubic feet for the Upton site.

Perhaps you can confirm my estimate for bunker size.

DD, i don't think you would be that far off with your sizing of the bunkers,

Thanks Bert, they certainly look a bit more robust than the Dunham-on-Hill Ordnance storage site (you can see 2 or 3 of their 28 bunkers by the Helsby turn-off on M56).

Clicky

DD they look like a garden shed compared to the Upton bunkers, What ever they kept in them was not likely to blow out very easily.

That site (Dunham-on-Hill) had one sixth of the entire British Ordnance at one point in time. It was the only British Military site the Germans never found.

Is this like the ammo bunkers at Upton?

DD, very similar indeed, on the side elevation on your photo the blast wall has 4 strengthening pillars or posts whatever there called, on the Upton bunkers they had them on the actual bunker wall (external) with doors in between them. The blast wall was the same height but with banked up earth, Where is that Bunker ?

That is at RAF Cark in Cumbria.

If the blastwalls had earth piled against them, they would have buttresses as well (I have been trying to think of that word for the last week as well - no comments about spelling)

Thats interesting DD, RAF CARK, did any of the places you listed have any conection with the RAF

Wednesfield
Walsgrave on Sowe
Upton
Kidbrook
Weyhill
York
Inchinnan

Every time i look for AAOD, it takes me towards Army aviation or Army Air.

Army Aviation OD and Army Air OD are both yank military, even info on them is surprisingly thin on the ground.

I got most of those places by where a member of AAOD was posted, then a couple were lucky finds. There is nothing certain about the list - but the lack of info worries me, there is a chance that it comes under another umbrella, otherwise I am back to a conspiracy theory.

Some of those locations have a ROF nearby at least two have RAF, I think, I will try and find out.

If anybody knows what they trained at Hillsea, Portsmouth during WW2, then that could be useful.

That's right DD. yank military but also Australian and Aussie forces had similar names to us, they just put an A in front of it. Your right the lack of info does make one wonder.

PDF] Land Contamination: Technical Guidance on Special Sites: MoD LandFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
AAOD. Anti-Aircraft Ordnance Depot, storage area for anti-aircraft shells. ..... Royal Air Force, branch of British military services responsible ...
publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/pdf/SP5-042-TR-1-e-p.pdf - Similar pages

Good idea Bert - this puts an end to the conspiracy theory - all these locations were WITHIN TWO MILES of an RAF Base (other than one that might not). Hence there would be heavy HAA protection in the vicinity, hence need an AAOD

Wednesfield - RAF Perton
Walsgrave on Sowe - RAF Ansty
Upton - RAF West Kirby
Kidbrook - Kidbrook has an airport, not sure if RAF in WW2
Weyhill - RAF Thruxton and RAF Andover
York - RAF Clifton
Inchinnan - RAF Abbotsinch

So is it possible Upton camp was built in conjunction with RAF West Kirby, RAF West Kirby being 1940 and i assume Upton Camp around about the same time.

Certainly seems likely, but there was a lot of stuff going up around then. But basically the quantity of HAA sites on the Wirral would create the demand for the AAOD, as I said earlier (I think?) there are very few records of the HAA guns on sites (such as RAF Bases or ROFs), only the records of the outlying HAA seem to be recorded.

There were 10 outlying HAA sites and 3 RAF stations on the Wirral

I would think then the powers to be assumed that the outlying HAA sites were adequate cover for 3 RAF sites. Also you would think no fighter aircraft would be left on the ground in the event of a raid.

I am fairly sure the RAF sites would have HAA on them as well, it just wasn't recorded because the land didn't have to be purchased as it was for the outlying HAA.

I'm sure your right DD, The defence of air fields was down to the RAF regiment and they must have had HAA, i thought i read recently(now i can't find it) requisitioned land had less recorded info by the MOD.

Another little piece in the search taken from the ADS site, a spread sheet which also has info on Clatterbridge and Bidston camp workshops.

http://ads.ahds.ac.uk/catalogue/ads...n/csv/Stage_1/North_Western_district.csv

I had a good look around on Friday Evening, went in through the front but the Cadets were doing some square bashing, so quick exit and tried to get thorugh the back from Upton Meadow - no chance - someone has created a fantastic inpenetrable bramble wall, found ways round fences etc but couldn't get past the bramble wall.

But basically as Bert said, they are digging up part of the site at the moment and doesn't seem to be anything of interest.

dd

I lived across the fields from there when I was a kid, so naturally we would play there...
This was in the late 70's and I remember there being 3 half buried buildings, in the style of stores or barracks ( which was what we called them: "The barracks".They werent in the best state of repair then, and I remember whilst playing there I went to climb up something in one of the buildings and a chunk of concrete crumbled off the wall and mashed my fingers. I still have the scars today.
they would have been approximately where the homebase side of the sainsburys site is now located.. there were also some man made raised hillocks with metal posts on leading off towards arrowe park road.

doubt this is of any interest to anyone, but thanks for this thread because it really jogged my memory of somewhere I had completely forgotten.

Phil, its always good to hear from peoples experience. I find it weird how your perception as a child is completely different as an adult - you only remember the parts that were of use to you or were different - so you may remember a wall you used to climb but can't remember anything much about the rest of the building it was part of. There are exceptions, Chris & Pinz seem to have been walking camcorders!

yeah, you are right... the reason I remember the raised hillocks with the metal poles was because we used to use these as bases in games, where these were a safe place and you couldnt be got...
barley.. if you like..

some time later, as a teenager, myself a a few others did a dodgy deal with some of the cadets from the ? ATC ? (dunno if thats right, but its what I remember, wherein they had discovered a stash of old army (possibly air force) coats and were flogging them off on the sly..
Myself a some mates had one each for what I think was 2 quid..
they were big blue overcoats, obviously pretty old, amazing quality, weighed a ton... and more importantly .. they were so warm you could only really wear them in winter.. I had mine in a wardrobe at my folks house until they passed away a few years back...
wish I had remembered , because it was still in great nick after all those years.

Phill , they were called Greatcoats, had one myself issued to me, kept you warm but couldn't move in them when they were wet.

i remember the army camp as my grandad used to work there and he used to take me with him when i was a child

Do you remember when this was, and what the camp was being used for at the time?

it would be about the early to mid fifties and it was used to store large army guns and things covered in grease as i can remember getting covered in the stuff once

thanks for that diggingdeeper very helpful

Glad this thread has been brought back to life, with new members all the time, someone might be able to add more.

Without going of on a tangent according to a good friend of mine who was a long time serving member of the TA , Chetwynd House which is in the Grounds of 234 Sqn RLC (V) TA .Was during the war Operations HQ Royal Artillery AA for the Wirral area . The regular Royal Artillery Battery which was stationed there had a fixed AA gun at the rear of the Barracks and was home to the mobile AA Guns ready to be positioned where there was an urgent need . I would persume this battery got it's shells from Ordance Depot in Arrowe Park . Also he remembers as a kid seeing masses of military vehicles cammed up at arrowe park prior to Normandy landings . I don't know how much of this is true but he's a noligable chap when it comes to military history on the Wirral

Regards

sludge

Just to add to phillhere's response, I also played in "the barracks" in the late 70s around the same time that the houses bordering Arrowe Brook and Coronation Park were built, the picture posted above from RAF Cark look very familiar. My memories are of crumbling concrete and rusting doors

Welcome to the WikiWirral machine Countzerouk.

I am doing some family history research and my Grandfather was based at Upton Camp training recruits during the start of World War II.

Does anyone have any photos of the camp from around that time, there does not seem to be much information on the web about this location.

Thanks - John

AAOD: Anti-Aircraft Ordnance Depot

See:

http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Main/Glossary

The army camp used to cover an area from Adams farm to upton police station and then back towards Greasby about 500 yards.
There was a couple of old tanks just by the police station but they where removed in the 60s (I think). As far as I know or remember the three buildings at the rear of the camp were for storing amunition thats why they were made of heavy concrete with earthen banks put up arround them. I remember when I was in the army cadets as a kid I won my marksmans badge in the rifle range there about an hour befor the building collasped. Part of the old camp was still being used up to the 70s by the TA for storing articulated trucks and so on it was then taken over by the G P O. Most of the original camp was buried when they used earth movers to shape the land to build the Champion Spark Plug factory.

I was there from 1965 for a few years, i don't remember the tanks so perhaps they were removed prior to that. the range was 25 yards and the only weaponry that was allowed to be fired in there was .22. The rifle we used was a Lee Enfield .22 training rifle. The heavier .303 and Bren we fired at other ranges. At that time all firing bolts had to be removed from the rifles unless it was actually getting fired in the range, this was due to a cadet from the Overchurch putting a round through the skin between his thumb and first finger of his right hand during rifle drill. No great harm done other than a bit of skin missing and scarring, i do remember he was compensated to the tune of £800, a tidy sum in 1965 for a 14 year old.

Should have been fined instead of compensated. Negligent discharge is a serious matter and you should always make sure your weapon is cleared everytime you pick it up.

My Grandad was Demobed to Upton camp after the war. He lived in the nissan huts with his family. My mum was born there. the gate of the camp is still there in the bushes on arrowe park road.

My dad is the Commanding Officer of the Air Training Corps in Upton and there is not alot left of the old camp left. There is the concrete bases in our compound which look like where the nissan buildings were. When BT left the area it was bought by Sainsburys for them to build a warehouse but was told this couldnt happen as it was used as a ammo store and ammo dump during the war and there could still be things under there and they were not allowed to dig down to do the foundations. All the buildings have been knocked down and just a mess now. It is nice to see the photos on here of how it was.

Mum says the camp she lived on is were champs hill is now. If you walk up from the post office to arrowe park. If you look in the bushes you can see an opening and two metal gate posts. that is where the entrance to the camp used to be.

I will keep an eye on this thread as i think it is good for the cadets to know what was there before us.

all I will say is when we are the squadron at night it is very eery. you can be on your own and you can hear doors opening and closing. feel like being watched and just a strange feeling.

Was also told by a Squadron leader many years ago that the camp used to be used to store the ammo for the tanks that used to train at arrowe park. Apparently there are 2 tanks buried in arrowe park somewhere.

That's interesting Cooldaris, after your Grandad was demobbed he went to live at the camp as a civilian, just wondering if you can find out, what address is on your Mothers birth certificate?
I wasn't aware that part of the camp was taken over to house civilians after the war, though it makes sense.

Yeah Grandad was demobbed there after the war. He used to talk about it when we were little. Sadly he passed away when I was 8 and I never got the chance for him to tell me more.

Mum was born on the camp but they moved soon after she was born. I will ask her about her birth certificate when she comes home. I am sure it just says Upton but will check.

My father worked at the camp from 1942-44. He was RAOC (later re-badged REME). Having graduated from the Army Apprentices School, Arborfield, he was sent to Upton where his main task was to maintain the winches that deployed barrage balloons and the lorries the winches were attached to. I believe he was billeted at Greenbank House.

This is the army camp, from an airphoto from Britain from above,
enlarge and look to the top, not too sure if you have to register to enlarge, the airphotos are from 1946

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/image/eaw001610?search=upton%20wirral&ref=0

In my haste ghostgum forgot to mention welcome to WikiWirral.

You do have to register to enlarge/zoom in,
Left click and hold to drag the picture when zoomed in

Hey Ghostgum, welcome to the Asylum wiki wirral.

Is this the same site??
Planning

Site Map

Couldn't access the site map for some reason, but I was told yesterday that plans were afoot to build houses on the site and a new home was to be built for the ATC.