The first church in Upton or Overchurch is said to date back to 700 - 900ad making it of Anglo Saxon origin. The church was built opposite where Upton Manor stands now just off Moreton Spur on the Overchurch. Nothing is left of the building and the area is now a small wild wood. Some time after the church was destroyed, another church was built on the same site. We can only speculate on the date but due to artifact finds over the years I believe it to be of Norman origin (1066 - 1216 ad).

The interest in the church does not stop there as the old church was surrounded by a burial ground, which despite the
proximity to the local estates; is in good condition and lays covered by foliage which hides the artifacts. Most people in the area who have lived there for years do not even know it exists. The burial ground is a mass of trees, brambles, root grass and undergrowth. The old tombstones are scattered around the small site amongst the ever increasing wilds. The only stone that is now legible dates back to 1745.

The only grave which had any writing on which could be made out lay on its own in the undergrowth. After cleaning it up as much as possible i could make out the following inscription:

"Here lyeth the body of Peter Lowe, who departed this life the 2nd of May aged 30 1745. Here ... (stone damaged and illegible).

In Norman Ellison's book 'The Wirral Peninsula', he describes another tombstone which cannot now be identified but read:

"George Lowe, Died on the homeward bound passage from Jamacia, August 4th 1806, ages 19 years".

Its deffo worth a visit if your in the area but i would only go on a nice day as it gets pretty muddy up there.

Full Story here

It's also a Scheduled Ancient Monument, so tread carefully!

I remember this being raised when they built the bypass.

Questions where asked wether the new road was going to disturb this area.

I have seen the stones, though it must have been 20ish years ago now...

wow - this is amazing - like stanlow abbey - just sitting there decaying.
i would love to see these. but as you say - i'll wait until its dry and tread carefully

They are worth a visit, and very interesting but can be a bit of a pain to find

this is amazing, i`ve been on your wirral site for about an hour and half now, great site
Thanks for sharing dr frick

The location you indicated is a bit out, the graveyard is actually almost directly behind the site of Kenilworth Gardens (the flats that were demolished some years ago) at the top of Gainsborough Road, there is a footpath at the side of the garages, the site of the church and the graveyard are ahead and to the left (it is surrounded by a low bank).

As mentioned, the whole site is a Scheduled Ancient Monument, the only part that has as yet been excavated is the site of the church itself, and this was only to expose the foundations of the Norman church. It is though that there may also have been a village surrounding the church.

Yep that way is far easier, i came in just off the motorway and spent a good amount of time scouting around and slipping through mud until i found them

It would be nice to see the whole area excavated to see whats around, im sure there would be lots of Saxon / Norman finds around there.

What a fascinating story- i had no idea!! Thanks for sharing! Also ta for the map as this makes it so much easier to find- i hope!

what does this mean?

It could be a trap waiting to go off like you see in indiana jones?

A Scheduled Ancient Monument is a 'nationally important' archaeological site or historic building, given protection against unauthorised change. It is a criminal offence to damage, remove or deface any part of it.

This particular 'Ancient Monument' is, however, totaly neglected, and has been for as long as I can remember. English Heritage are supposed to maintain it and a Field Monument Warden should monitor the site to check its condition and to report on damage etc.

thanks dr frick very interesting it would be great to have it excavated will try to find it when im over whats the feel of this place like does it have an atmosphere

thanks upton

To be honest i thought it woud be a bit scary. I went up there alone one afternoon but when i found the place it had nice feel to it, peaceful and not eiry at all. As i said unless you go in the correct way it could be difficult to find. Its a real shame that its been neglected and most of the tombstones seem to have been broken and vandalised. Worth taking a visit before theer illegible or destroyed.

Just watch out for the giant boulder and tribesman throwing spears !!

You have to balance a bag of sand on the tombstone before you remove the gold skull

It does have an atmosphere (even to me), it is very quiet and peaceful, even though it is just next to the Overchurch Estate on one side and the Upton Bypass on the other.

There is, incidentally, some information on it on my site here

AGREED

Incidently i only found out about these graves after stumbling across Upton CX old website a long time ago, so the thanks must goto him !

Awesome stuff, thanks guys
great sites too, been on yours most of today doctor frick

Cheers Ste its took me a long long time. It will hopfuly be lauching fully this year. Lots more to go in including databases and videos.

Do you have anything about Dr Stoop's Step DrF?

I pass it every day on my way to work

This sounds really interesting. Fancy going up there one day Miss G

Yes - when its sunny! Need a guide too

hahahahahaha

thanks

You have to balance a bag of sand on the tombstone before you remove the gold skull
[/quote] hahahaha pis taking barstards. Funny tho

Is this any help?

From the Friends of Bidston Hill newsletter, Autumn 2003:

In the latter part of the 18th Century, Wirral was a very wild and desolate place. When dusk descended it was also a dangerous place and strangers would soon get lost. A medical man, Dr Haughton, had patients in the parishes of West Kirby, Woodchurch, Tranmere, Wallasey, Birkenhead and Bidston. He had to make numerous journeys by night and day, often getting lost especially during night-time or when it was misty. For guidance he erected a stone gatepost, called in country dialect a “stoop” and thus originated a nickname for himself “Dr Stoop”. The stone can still be found today on Upton Road nearly opposite “Thermopylae Pass”.

thanks upton - i have seen that before - i guess that's all there is to say about the stone.

No im afraid i dont have any more info on this. I only have what is shown above taken from the friends of Bidston Hill Website.

thanks upton for the link to your site its great

was there last night spooky place found this

that looks like a tomb to me.

map

In 1986 a survey of the Overchurch site was carried out and a plan was produced giving the locations of all the remaining visible grave markers that could be found.





Each of the markers was numbered, and any legible inscription was recorded. One, no 13 on the plan, is believed to be medieval.



While it is difficult to see, the stone has a simple cross carved in it



A second medieval stone was found in the wall surrounding the undertaker's office at the site of the Greenbank church, this is now stored in the Williamson Art Gallery. There are other fragments of grave markers in the walls at Greenbank, parts of inscriptions can still be seen on some of the stones. This is all material that was brought from the original Norman church and used in the construction of the second church.

The graveyard, as has been said earlier in this thread, is a Scheduled Ancient Monument and is in the care of Wirral Borough Council.



The site is open and therefore subject to abuse, rubish is dumped, fires are lit and the remaining grave markers are often vandalised.



Some people think that the site should be left in its present, overgrown state, as to some extent this protects it from even worse vandalism. Others feel that the site should be cleaned up and propper access provided.



As an aside, if anyone is interested in what happened to the gravestones from the Greenbank churchyard when the Undertaker's Office was built, relatives that could be traced were asked if they wanted them moving, the rest were sold and now form part of a garden wall at a house in Noctorum.

Well done upton, if they close the libraries they could just open up your house instead!

lost a good few golf balls in them woods

Any chance of a UE to this site?

I too would be up for that!
I was talking to a wiki the other week-d.d maybe?? And apparantly they cam be tricky to find, which put me off going on me own so a u.e would be great

WIKI TOUR? then a GHOST HUNT?

A gang of us went there early one morning (about 2am) and found the main patch of graves despite rain etc so no problem now.

Cheers, even so well up for the u.e run on sunday-no doubj see you there!

Yep, plenty of nettles, brambles etc, you'll feel quite at home now

Which Sunday? I can't do next one as I have mother-in-law visiting. She ain't into UE/Ghosthunting.

The ancient tomb stone with the cross on it is that of the Bold family approx 1600 or before. Can anyone tell me how I can find more information on the survey conducted in 1986 reference the gravestones

try the archives mate!

Who are the bold family? What is their relevance to wirral?

The Bolds of Upton must have been a wealthy family. In 1618 Charles son of Peter Bold presented a Chalice to the Church.

I totally agree, just joined this group and am made up to find info about these grave stones. I have been there lots of times when walking my dog and the whole atmosphere of all the surrounding area is very eerie. I used to walk through the wooded area as a child and there were so many stories about a white lady who used to haunt there. Don't know if anyone remembers anything about this, I certainly never saw any ghostly things. But...its very spooky where the stones are, hard to describe, but the whole place, even on the nearby fields has a distinct and unnerving feeling about. I will be very interested to hear if anyone else thinks this or is it my vivid imagination???

As a child I played in the woods around the grave yard. I can remember stories about the white lady but never saw her!

I wonder who she was then, maybe someone on here knows. My dog never seems bothered by any ghostly things and apparantly animals are more tuned into these things....wouldn't like to walk through there at night though....no thanks...!!!

VERY INTERESTING THAT MATE!

Our team walk around cemeteries and spooky places like bidston hill / old buildings /churches right through the night,
Even got a ghost dog in one cemetery

The survey of the site of Overchurch was carried out in 1986 by Dorothy O'Hanlon and K Pealin and reported in Volume 9 of the Journal of the Merseyside Archaeological Society, I have a copy of this if you need any information from it.

A magnetometer survey of the field between the site of Overchurch Hill and the Overton Centre was carried out by the Department of the Environment in 1977, this was inconclusive.



The grave cover with the cross in the grave yard is believed to be considerably older than 1600 it, together with the grave cover found in the wall surrounding the undertakers office at Greenbank, is believed to be medieval (about 670 to 1340). The runic stone also found on the site is believed to date back to about 600 A.D.



The Bolds first came to Upton when Baldwin Bold married the daughter of Sir John Arderne in 1310 and was given the hall and manor of Upton as a wedding present. They remained with the Bold family for six generations until 1614 when they were sold to Robert Davies.

The Overchurch Chalice and paten were presented to the church in 1618. The Bolds also presented a Breeches Bible dated 1599 to the church. The chalice is inscribed:

Carolus Bold, filius Petri Bold de Upton armigeri
dedit hunc calicem ecclesie ibidem codemg
tempore dedit illis Bibliam 1618.

While I'm sure that most of you have translated this already, for those whose latin is a bit rusty, it says:

Charles Bold, son of Peter Bold of Upton gentleman,
gave this chalice to the church there
at the same time he gave his bible 1618.

The bible went missing some time between 1920 and 1940.

http://pastscape.english-heritage.o...rch&rational=q&recordsperpage=10

Thanks uptoncx for the info on the Bold Family, this would suggest that the grave stone relates to this family for many years. I have information that supports this also.
Wirral records page 16, Spelt as it is in the book.

Ouerchurch 1668 in Wirral
The auncient tombe of the Bolds of Upton who wer all burried under it, but noe writting thereon.
Then it sayes
Drawing of a flat tomb,but nothing depicted on it . The discription in the writer's MS. Is a long rude red sandstone, with a cross upon one step, worn or partly chipped away.

Can you tell me which field was surveyed in 1977, if its the one I think sloping down towards Royden road flats and by pass then I would think it unlikely of any settlement there as this is low lying ground and due to evidence of sand and shells I have found the shore line did actually come as far as kennillworth gardens.
The church has been also refered to as the church on the shore.
Where can I obtain a copy of the graveyard survey, is it via the Historical society?

The paper on the survey can be bought from the Merseyside Archaeological Society's web site here, the paper is included in volume 9, 1995 and it costs £5.00. They will also provide a photocopy of just the paper for 50p.

The field chosen for the magnetic survey is, I think, the one you refer to, it runs from the site of Overchurch Hill (the plateau at the top of the field is the front garden of Overchurch Hill) and Roydon Road. This field was chosen because until recently it showed clear evidence of ridge and furrow (in fact in the recent frosty weather, you could still make out the ridges).

I'm intrigued by your theory that the shoreline was at Kenilworth Gardens, the usually accepted shoreline is the small escarpment which can be seen on contour maps of the area.

With reference to the shore line at Overchurch this is only a theory due to the fact that many years ago I found a substantial ammount of sea shells in a sandy area which was situated by what was the old tennis courts of Overchurch house which is at the end of Kennilworth gardens.
Incidently I think I can recall a small upstanding grave stone outside of the raised area of the graveyard this was located within the wooded area in front of Kennilworth gardens. This area is also surrounded by yew trees which are of the same diameter of those surrounding the grave yard.
Does anyone know how to estimate the age of yew trees who's trunk are 10-12 inches diameter. They may have been planted when Overchurch house was landscaped.

About 1970 this field had a drainage system put in by the local council. This was done to enable it to be used as a recreation field as previously it was very boggy. As I recall the furrows ran from the higher side to the lower end on royden road. The field took years to settel. These could be the furrows which are still visable.
Incidently there was a standing stone in this field which is shown on old maps as to its age I dont know, it was knocked over about 20 years ago.

Several of my families gravestones were removed from the overchurch cemetery and relocated to St Marys in Upton village approx 40 years ago, they are lying flat to the left of the path on the right hand side of the church now, apparently there were many more family graves at overchurch but these were the only ones my dad could find. Last time i was there 25+ years ago the foundations of the church were pretty clearly visable alon with around 30-40 gravestones. Will have to go for a wander one day.

I had a wander there yesterday 12-2-2010 with the dog, who seemed perfectly happy chasing rustling noises. Bright sunlight & very tranquil & peacefull.

The outline of the church has deffo gone now unfortunately

I think that the last time the foundations were seen was around 1890 when Cox probed to find the outline and dimensions of the church. (see below) [Ref: Overchurch and its Runic Stones by Edward W Cox, Feb 1891[

In 1869, as the site was becoming neglected and overgrown, it became overrun with rabbits, money was raised to build a wall around the churchyard. Traces of this wall are still visible today.

In 1965, with the permission of English Heritage, a local school teacher with a class of nine and ten year olds carried out a small excavation where they hoped to find the foundations of the church. Wall foundations and fragments of slates and stained glass were found. They replaced the fragments and soil when they had finished. [Ref: The Site of Overchurch, Upton by D O'Hanlon and K Pealin, 1984].

This would be a great site to carry out excavations on if it were allowed. Must admit i havent noticed the wall built around the church though.

There is a very clear long section of wall there, runs roughly parallel to the slip road down to the roundabout.

The 1865 wall followed the circular bank and ditch, it take a bit of searching to find the remains of the wall.

The site is protected as an ancient monument, and it is illegal to dig on the site without permission from English Heritage. Work needs to be carried out on the site soon as the roots of the trees and the sapplings are breaking up the remaining grave markers.

The remains of wall in the ditch on the north side of the grave yard was much more exposed in the sixties these remains extended around what was the walled garden of Overchurch Hill House. As seen on a map of the area circa 1870. The majority of these bricks were removed in the early seventies by the local council.I can remember apple trees and a wallnut tree within the walled garden area. also a cobbled area which was possibly the stable courtyard which was located east of the walled garden.I have never found the foundations of the church but believe the survey conducted in 1983 showing the foundation position is fairly accurate.

Good Stuff thanks for the pics

Myself and Snooze popped down there tonight.

We found the grave stones (its been 20+ years since I saw them last ) but were a bit unsure which direction to look for the church foundations.

As you can see from our pics, time is really starting to take its toll on them now even when you compare them with previous pics from fairly recently

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Upton-Wirral/112173455476100?v=desc&ref=mf

new page i found on facebook dedicated to Upton/Overchurch, worth you joining Doctor Frick and Upton CX I think you enthusiasm and knowledge is infectious

Yoy are probably aware from previous posts in other forums that the woods are now jointly owned by our community group and WBC/English heritage. I for one can't get enough of the history on my doorstep, just wish i could infect the youngsters with some enthusiasm. Need to get some $hit hot historian who can inspire the kids, get them involved. would love to set up a mock saxon village for a weekend how cool would that be,History is the most exciting subject ever. but not when your a kid lol

digging deeper and other stuy etc thanks for so many photo's and input into this forum, even if its not mine

English heritage want the monuments to remain overgrown as they feel clearing them exsposes them to vandals and(?treasur hunters?).
maybe if we have any "proffesional" archeoligists on here who can make an application to English heritage we could carry out a time team type dig on a section of land.or even invite time team

and T,C, NO PROBS MATE!

You need to talk to Heather Butler, she is an archeologist who lives in Upton and does not agree with the 'keep it overgrown' philosophy. She runs a local history group in Upton Library on Tuesday afternoons.

thanks UtonCX i will try and get in touch with her

I can understand them wanting to keep them covered but it seems such a shame that they are so close and most people don't know about them ...How wonderful it would be for local schoolchildren to see this history

I think it is time for them to move what stones remain to safety and do a full survey on the church before it is too late to do either.

All that is happening at the moment is decay.

Yes I was over there last week and it is so overgrown, its a shame

i remember going to these graves to do rubbings when i was in lingham primary school in late 60's.... there was a story of a school teacher burried there from upton road school and the grave had been tampered with some years later..is this right or has my memory gone loopy

I will have to go and see this....

My daughter is studying archeology in Belfast. I will have to take her there when she comes over.

...I'd recommend emailing Rob Philpott at Liverpool Museum. Could be wrong, but I seem to think he used to live in the area and I imagine such things come under the Museum's jurisdiction.

Rob's more of a specialist in Roman archaeology but has been involved in other Wirral projects, like Meols. At the very least I'm sure he'd advise you of any unpublished reports or surveys that might exist already...

also found this http://www.oldwirral.com/upton_normanchurch.html

Many years ago my dad enquired about buying this land and was told it was a viking burial ground and he wouldn't be able to do anything with it. Needless to say he didn't end up buying it! I have always wondered about going there and having a wander though

The area ringed in red on the map is not the actual grave site, I have lived on the Overchurch all my life and Stll do, I liive about 100 yards from the site. This site is also protected by the Secretary of State.