OK, tired of waiting; time for action.

Now the full story. On Friday I went up to Birkenhead & met Pinzgauer & his mine exploring mate Graham. After looking at various sites in Liverpool & resolving some questions about Green Lane station, we were headed for Woodside. Pinzgauer decided it would be fun to drive up the steepest street in Birkenhead; Holborn Hill. As we reached the top, we saw some new building at the end of the alleyway leading to Thompson St. this, of course, is where one of the ventilation/access shafts to the tunnels was. We parked up & wandered over. As we were surveying the site of the shaft, we saw that they were digging a trench for sewers on the line of the shaft & that a very thick reinforced concrete slab had been broken up, which we knew must be the capping of the shaft. As we were looking, one of the guys came over to the fence & asked us why we seemed so interested. We told him about the shaft & warned him about a possible collapse. He let us inside the fence & we described what we knew. He was as interested as we were & didn't take much persuading to dig some more. As the pictures in my previous post show, we succeeded in opening it up. All this was pure luck; if we hadn't decided to drive up Holborn Hill, or if we had been a day earlier or later, we would have missed this opportunity.

As far as technical details are concerned, the shaft would have been the same as at Bidston. It measured 6 feet square internally & the walls were about 13 inches thick. There's a picture of a similar one in my earlier thread. Pinzgauer, who had explored the tunnels as a child, can't remember whether there were 3 or 4 landings, but each was about 6.5 metres, so the total depth would be 19.5 or 26 metres.

Well done Chris & Pinzgauer.

Good of the builders to let you in, dig a bit further and help take measurements

Were you not tempted to drop a camera down and try and get some inside pictures?

Very lucky with the opportunity.

I'm curious as to what questions you resolved about Green Lane station too?

excellent stuff guys,what a stroke of luck

Joe; just updated the Green Lane thread in the History forum & no, there's no way I was going to risk my camera by dropping it into that hole

Wow thanks for sharing Kris,

What a stroke of luck, of all the days and the people to
be passing the Tranmere Tunnels with.
What a stroke of Luck.

Great Pictures there Kris.
They look in very good nick from those pictures.

Huge Thanks for Sharing the pictures and the moment Kris.
You lucky Sods

ooooooooooooooooooo, exciting stuff, lets go in.....

Excellent Chris

Thanks, Jonno.

Well, I was back there again yesterday & today. The shaft has now been opened up completely. They wouldn't let me down because their Health & Safety guy was on site, but I managed to get a pic. This shaft only goes down 21 Ft. & the base is solid sandstone. At the bottom, from the corner nearest the alley & on the Holborn Hill side, a passage goes towards the different concrete in the alley (shown on page 3 in a post by Waddi, where he pinched my pictures) This is the bottom right corner in the pic. From there, the shaft goes down to the bottom, via 3 or 4 landings. The theory is that the shaft was sunk from the alley (which is where I remember a building) & then the lateral tunnel & the shaft we can now see were built. This is where Pinzgauer remembers it. When I remember it, they were still constructing, because I remember hearing explosions. When it was completed, they capped the shaft in the alley, to restore the full width.
My contact wasn't there today, but he's promised to get some pics for me. One of his mates said that after I'd left yesterday, he went down all the way to the bottom. This was perhaps not as risky as it seems, since from the first breakthrough on Friday, we could detect a draught, so I guess there must be air bricks at Holborn Square. Rather him than me though.
I'm attaching some plans; the one I've written on shows the arrangement. The others are some old plans which I couldn't make sense of before, but now I think it shows the passage dotted.
If my contact sends me any pics, I'll post them here.

Cheers, Chris.

is there any chance of us mere mortals getting a looksie down the shaft, this could be our 1 and only chance of getting in this tunnels.

There is a chance; depends on who's around. I had hoped to get down today. Because I live so far away, I won't be coming up again, but if one or two of you were to wander up & show interest, you never know. It's not just a matter of climbing down the ladder, which stops about 5 feet from the top, so you have to get them to put another ladder there. If you printed off my latest photo & waved it, it might help.

Please heed Pinzgauer's warning about bad air. Even though my contact has been in, I wouldn't risk it.

Good luck. Chris.

Anyone up for popping along tomorrow? I may well be...

Good luck, Matt. The workmen there all seem pretty friendly.

Browsing in the reference library the other day, I came across some newspaper articles about the tunnels; a couple about children playing in there (tut tut Pinzgauer).

Now Chris, if those reports were dated 1958/9, I'd put my hand up and say it was meeeeeeee !

One could say that the council (pause to hit the spitoon !)made them dangerous by sealing them up and cutting off the natural ventilation. It doesn't take much thought to make Fort Knox type entrance doors on shaft heads or entrances that allow air flow but keep the kiddies out. Have made and installed a few lids on old mine entrances over the years. It's not rocket science. Trouble is that it's a typical knee-jerk reaction to say "NO" to any proposal about the tunnels and hide behind H&S rules !

Makes me angry to think what a success Stockport's (indentical) Ait Raid Tunnels have been. THEY had the foresight to open up most of the tunnels, install lighting, maintain ventilation etc. They even have some of the bunkbeds and other wartime bits and pieces of the type that were removed from the Tranmere Tunnels after the war.

Grrrr... makes me fume. Wirral Borough Council want plonking down the tunnels and then seal them up again. The shouting and banging will stop after a day or two !!! Sorry ! That's not nice (said with a grin from ear to ear) Also in years to come, some poor sod will have to shovel up the bones and send them to the glue factory.

I'd think I'd better go and take my pills !

I can only imagine how great it would be to open the tunnels up, and have them as a visitor attraction for the public as so many people on the Wirral do not know about these tunnels and would be amazed they even exist, nevermind seeing inside of them.

Is anyone able to keep an eye on what's happening there? I wish I were closer.

Cheers, Chris.

I work up the road from it, so I can have a look after work.

Think Matty might be going there Today?

Thanks, Joe. I don't think it'll be long before it's capped again.

Cheers, Chris.

I never went im afraid chaps, was hoping someone would wanna pop down there with me tbh lol.

i live a few mins walk away. I am on nights at the mo but am willing to go 2moz if anyone wants some support

If I was sure it wasn't re-capped, I might come up again myself.

I didn't manage to get around there either. Will try later though if I remember.

Take a pill for me as well mate, feel the same way as you!
These tunnels should be open to the public, but the way "our" glorious council is, we will need a bloody good war before we see them in their full glory.
I say "bury the council" and then send in the dogs afterwards, hence "NO BONES" !!!!

Just had a look at the site. it has changed Alot since i last passed the other week. I was not sure on the location of the shaft but i reckon its in the place that they placed the skip as it looks odd. here are the pictures.

Taken @ 20:20 today









Looks easy to gain access to.

Yes, the skip is over the shaft. Anyone able to go on Monday? Take a camera, you might be able to get down there.

why Monday if you don't mind me asking?.

Because there won't be any activity at the weekend & I don't think you could move the skip.

Good to see the latest photo's. Thanks Wheels. If I didn't live 230 miles away, I'd be down on a regular basis. It would be good to keep an eye on progress and get back down below after almost exactly 50yrs. Mmmm... Chris is doing his bit from Shrewsbury, but petrol/rail fares ain't cheap.

It would be good if the "local" folk could keep a watch on the shaft and keep the reports and photo's coming in.

Thanks to all.

i shall watch the shaft closley

I am so tempted to go inside tonight. I am fighting the urge to use a car jack to move the skip enough to get in. Been looking at a head cam to use if i went inside leaving my hands free for a digital cam.

Must resist.....must resist.....

I`m in if you want

oh god i can feel i adventure coming on.

I think that would be a really bad idea.
There is a guard on site; also, if you move the skip it's likely that the digger buckets would slip down the shaft. Also, there's a real chance that as something moves, it might trap or fall on your leg. The earth will be very muddy & slippery after all the rain too. Please don't risk it. Also, if you're spotted, which is probable, they may cap the shaft sooner than they intended & the opportunity will be lost for ever. Having talked to the crew there, I think there's a really good chance of being allowed in, if we play it cool.

Just my opinion.
Cheers, Chris.

bummer

I bought my sport cam too lol. I will take your advice on this one chris. Might pop round on monday and do it the boring way

Did they say when it will be capped ?

Hi, Wheels; no, they didn't say when it would be capped, but I can't see any reason why they should keep it open. If you go on Monday, I'm particularly interested in the concrete drain access behind the skip. Pinzgauer has suggested that it may be so they can run the drainage from the right (Holborn Hill end) around the shaft, instead of over it, but if they are going to cap the shaft, they could do that at a level to be below the line of those pipes. Makes you wonder......
Anyway, good luck on getting down (but not the risky way)

Cheers, Chris.

maybe they are not aloud to put a structure/piping over the shaft ? Maybe it has to remain ready for use in the future? Time will tell.

Whelan if you or anyone is into going there on Monday, ill be up for joining you.

roger dodge me old mucka.

Personally i doubt we will be allowed inside due to h&s but we have to try our luck.

Well, if their H&S man hadn't been there last Tuesday I'm pretty sure I'd have been down there. At least they've always let me past the fence to take pics. Good luck on Monday. If you let me know what time you'll be going, I may come up myself.

Cheers, Chris.

Please keep us updated and if anyone gets in get all the
pictures you can and bare in mind its probably twice
as big as Bidston Tunnels. So be careful.

Good Luck

Don't Worry! im not about to go jumping down a shaft.

I'd be up for anything that will help us gain access or views inside the tunnels.

Only problem is I'm in work mon-fri 8.30am-5pm, but if anything is planned after 5pm, I'd be happy to help or come along

What time are you thinking of going Wheels???

not sure mate, got a few things on.

If im not at work i will be happy to come along

Well I was thinking of going down about 11ish, that way I can get meself a tank of Biodiesel whilst im down that way.

Anyone else interested in that time??

i`m either in work or moving house tomorrow, sorry

guys guys guy I have only just had the chance to pop there after a trip to asda. i stood on the other side of the fence and could see them working on the hole. the lad that was cutting out some brick in order to put a metal I beam across the hole said his boss had been down Friday and took loads of pictures for a website?? i aksed when will it be covered for good and he said Tomorrow!!!!

He said "its fooking huge down there"

I have 2 vids and pix but i wont post the funny vid in case he gets in trouble.

So no chance of us going down then??

Massive opportunity lost, maybe the final chance for anyone in our lifetimes.

I dont know mate. i didnt want to ask if i could go down cos i had a car full off shopping up the road with the engine running. they were nice enough and invited me to move the fence and come it to take a picture on my phone. uploading pix n vid now. nothing special but its something



his boot is inside one of the grooves made for the two I beams that will support the above ground.

You should have asked if there was any chance at all we could go down tomoz morning for some quick UE before they are closed off forever.

in this picture you can see the two beams that i guess will be used

[youtube]Vue8yox4ER4[/youtube]

short vid

Gutted.

Definately need to get down there before it's shut off forever.

What time do they start in the morning? I can only go before half 8 or tonight.

I hope the pictures are for Chris

Well, folks, the guy in the pictures is Andrew, who has been my main contact there. He's the one who said he'd take pics & send them to me. He has my address & e-mail, so I'm hoping. Looks as if the opportunity has passed, but at least we got a bit.

Cheers, Chris.

Wheels, what are the covered over with tonight? Go and have a jolly nice chat to the security guard about the industry

yeh i will pop over later (just had ma dinner and im bloated)

Sound nice one Agent Wheels. If you get anywhere, be sure to let us know and we will come along!

Im on alert.

roge ill log on via la nokia for instant communication

Hehe well should our special network be havng issues, my number is ********* hehe.

Wheels just text me, it sounds like its a no go... gutted

Think I may come up tomorrow, even if just to witness the capping. Pity none of us got down.

Reckon I'll be up there about 10.00-10.30. I'll check here before I leave for any last minute reply.

I might well see you down there Chris, as I have to go that way to get some Biodiesel.

Ill post on here if I do, ill leave about 09:45 if I do.

if i lived closer id be there early

matty giz a text or prank my phone when your close and ill walk up.

I would do but im not 100% atm on whether im going or not; its a case of if im up lol (you probably all know the weird hours I sleep by the times I am active on here by now lol). If im up I deffo will though, if ive been up all night ill probably stay up and give you a bell anyway haha see how I feel before I drive though.

But I am hoping to be so fingers crossed. Got the biggest incentive ever too, got a massive client sending a wedge via Western Union from the Middle East will be ready for pickup tomorrow afternoon haha!

If (big "if") anyone goes down the main shaft (the reeeeel deep one with platforms), it might be an idea to keep to one person on one section at all times. Wait for the guy below to clear his ladder/platform before you step on to yours. Same sketch coming up. This technique is used on a 400' shaft with 21 ladders/platforms in a mine I visit in N.Wales. It pays to be safe. Wherever you go, stop every now and again and check for a draught. NOT by lighting a fag !!! There may be some of the passages not vented very well - a draught will take the most direct route. You might get into a passage with low oxygen levels which is not a barrel of laughs.

Sorry to appear to be preaching here, but if anyone falls or collapses - you are in DEEP SH*T ! As will be the builders on site (who have been good to us).

Good luck lads. Too far for me to come, but I'll be with you in spirit. TAKE CARE !

hey guys n gals just got back from the vent with Chris & matty, got of pictures taken inside but they are pictures of pictures if that makes sense. so ill post them up in a min but Better higher quality ones will be posted in the future by Chris.

Here are some of the picture from today



Lantern from inside (allot like one i saw inside bidston hill)



Grooves cut for I beams



What the alley looks like





The beams going into place





1 board



2 boards



The last of the sunlight to shine inside the shaft for many years to come is blotted out by the two boards.



Ok now for the interesting pictures taken by the builders.



This picture reminds me of the bidston hill ladders



this is part of the sandstone roof that collapsed



tunnels







A interesting old engine inside



More ladders



Was very good to meet Chris and it was an interesting morning. Cant wait for the better pictures to arrive.

Great morning, thoroughly enjoyed it guys, cheers! I dont think there has been an audience with a building site before lol!

Cant wait for the photo's Chris, and all the builders were quite sound and nice guys!

Good to see you both. As soon as I get the photos from Andrew I'll post them. Wheels; with a bit of training, I think that dog of yours could be persuaded to excavate as well as a JCB.

Cheers, Chris

That is oh so true

On the pic looking up the alley, the position of the original capped shaft shows up well. We measured the other day & it's 6 metres corner to corner from the opened shaft. I can't find any reason why the shaft was originally sunk from the alley & then capped & the present exit created.

Great pictures Wheels.

Shame non of us got the chance to go in

It's brilliant that Chris & Pinzgauer discovered it in time, otherwise there would be none of these pictures of it's existence below the houses being built.

Chris, when would the shaft have been moved?

Is that all they covered it with - 2 sheets of wood?!

I think the shaft was probably moved as soon as it was completed; no doubt they wanted to clear the alley. After we left, they were going to fix the shuttering. The plywood you can see is just to contain the reinforced concrete cap, which they say will be poured tomorrow.

Wheels; it would be good to have more photos of the final capping if you can manage it, just to complete the record.

Cheers, Chris.

Great work Guys

I was in Wembley London Sun Mon Tue on a Job
Big thanks for getting the pictures.
The wiki gang do it again

Well done lads for the time and effort i'm sure
the rest of us appreciate it as i do very much

Sorry mate i have been bust today so never had a chance to check. i will deffo go 2morra

Any news on the photographs as yet Chris??

No, Matt. I'm probably coming up tomorrow to see the tall ships, so if I can face the climb up from Green Lane station I'll call & have a word with Andrew. Also, take a pic of how it looks now.

brilliant

Saw Andrew, my contact, today. He said he posted the pics to me yesterday, so when they arrive I'll scan them & post them here.
There's no longer any trace of the shaft, it's covered with earth now.

Nice one Chris, did you manage to get any photo of how the area looks now?

Its a sad end to the story of course, but hopefully its an episode that has offered an excellent incite to the tunnels and can help preserve the enthusiasm for one day maybe gaining access to them.

Didn't take a pic; nothing to see really. I'd really have liked one of the concrete cap, but wasn't there on the right day. When the building is complete, I'll take a pic. We'll always know where the shaft was, because of the large manhole behind it.

o well at least something is better than nothing
and the best part is all of this went on over a week
and no one in the big picture knew about it

And we have pics and all sorts
Well done everyone.

Thanks.

really intersting thread. i'm sure that one day we may sorry, will gain access somehow to these tunnels in the right cicrcumstances... theanks to everyone for all their hard work on this enthralling piece of hidden history...

Well, I've now got the pics from my contact. He's done a good job of documenting these tunnels. Those of you who went into the Bidston tunnels will recognise the ladder & platform arrangement as they would both have been done to the same plans. It's a real shame we weren't allowed down there, but at least we now have a record.

More pics.

Great to see the place again ! As you say, I don't remember the concrete steps. Likewise don't recall the unlined section. Obviously didn't do a complete "tour" when we were down.

The iron platforms and ladders seem to have survived 50 odd years of damp conditions quite well.

Thanks to all involved for recording this vital bit of Wirral's history. If only we had a Council that could see beyond the end of their hairy, wart ridden noses !!

Will it be another 50 years before they see the light of day/explorer's lamps again we wonder ??

wow! great pics, gutted we could not go inside. im glad to see that some things have survived and not smashed to bits like the bidston hill tunnels.

Excellent pictures.

You have to thank your contact for them, they're excellent and very well documented.

It's great that these pictures exist even though it is now completed all blocked off.

As Whelan said, I'm glad to see that things are still there with little damage unliek the Bidston ones.

fanatastic photographic record, are there definately no other entrances/exits available to us ?

Excellent chris

Well, of course, Andrew was in a privileged position. Of course, if we hadn't happened to be there when he broke the concrete cap, the story might have been very different; maybe his digger would have ended up in the shaft. I spoke to him today to thank him for the pics. & to ask him if it was OK if we used the whole thread. He agreed & said the whole thing had created an interest in local history, so he thanked us. At my prompting, he has seen the bomb damage on the Mersey Railway climb out of Green Lane station.

oooh 28days is gonna hate us

Thankyou so much for sharing
Well done everyone involved.

SDuch a shame its all blocked off

Fantastic shame we couldnt get in but hey maybe in time we will Yep chris you will have to thank your friend for us but in one of the pictures with the sandstone collapsing maybe thats why the tunnel is closed off cause of that situtation ?

Just thought I'd post a scan of the note Andrew included with the pics. Looks like here's another recruit to the History forum. Cheers, Andrew

hehe love the O's above the letter I's nice of him to include that note.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Please DO NOT Arrange any Excavation attempts on the
public forum please. As this is against the law.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

WARNING - At least part of the Tranmere Tunnels had the roof lined with an experimetal ASBESTOS coating - if anyone should find themselves in these tunnels PLEASE use a mask and don't disturb any fallen roof material.

if the council had a clue about anything that site could have been the visitor centre for the tunnels rather than building houses that no-one can afford anyway

Excellent work Well done everyone involved.

Indentical air raid shelters were built at the same time at Stockport. The only difference being that a few years ago, the local council had the brains and the foresight to re-open the tunnels to the paying public. Guided tours or wander round yourself. Some tunnels have had the bunks and other wartime equipment re-installed.

Can't provide a direct link, but ask that nice Mr Google for "Stockport Air Raid Shelters" and he will cough up all the info. times, charges etc.

It highlights very nicely what absolute useless septic cretins Wirral Council (or whatever name they are hiding behind this week) are. If Stockport can do it (very well) then Wirral could. It is criminal that they are sitting on such a piece of history and not letting Joe Public - who pays their grossly inflated wages, have a look in.

Grrrrrrr. time for MORE pills !!

Excellent work by you two there - Round of applause

made me cry looking at the pictures as i used to live only a few minutes walk away but i live down under now which a few weeks walk away

ah good. makes it worth it then Lukeo

if there is any places near by you want to see just ask and ill take a few snaps as i live near the vent shaft myself.

Just had a phone call from Andrew, my contact on site, to tell me that paper_boy's article is in today's Echo. It can be seen online here http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...unkers-found-by-workmen-100252-21452102/

Bravo

Well done chris and co.

yes well done

Well Done



Didn't know that

well done to all

thats some good stuff,well done everyone our council should be preserving stuff like the safe and things as part of our local history but noone seems interested do they?

Well done chris

Shame they didn't add a back link to the topic we have.

But Chris i thought you were 55

Thanks for that, Mark.
Yes, a link to this topic would have been good in a way, but a bit risky for my contact Andrew, since it contains some pics. which show H&S issues.

So what is that in the final photo? Mist? Can't be steam can it? Too cold...

Might be wrong, but I suspect it would be Andrew's breath. It would be quite cool down there in summer. Likewise warmer than "outside" during winter months. Depending on depth and any airflow, temp. would probably be around a constant 50F/10C.

Thank goodness for that! That picture gives me the 'willies', especially when my mum said 'can you see a face in it?' lol

whats happened to the shaft hole can we see it now ???

No, completely covered now, but we will always know exactly where it is, by reference to the manhole cover you can see in the second set of pictures, taken by Wheels.

its an absolute disgrace the way our history is covered over and witheld from us just because the government/council cannot be bothered... for the sake of a little investment or even a lottery grant, these historic tunnels could have become a hugely popular tourist attraction..

yep agree with ye 100%

You are SO right jonah !!

If these tunnels where open up as a tourist attraction i'll be first on the line to work there in either of em.. If that ever happened it'l be a great job that And just think special tours for wiki's hehe

they'd rather just waste the money on bloody imigrants and useless projects...

Well done ....brilliant pics!!I knew one day someone would get in



So is it officially called the Cammell laird tunnels?

No, these are the Tranmere Air Raid Shelters, separate from the Cammell Laird tunnels

cool

i went to the the top of Holborn hill to day to speak to the workers on the site of the shaft they showed me were it was and said theys sealed it i asked waht with and is it possable to get back in he said it is but he would,nt allow me to have a look.

i figered out it was the vent shaft for the tunnels under the monkey
steps wow very intresting. he says there is a way in in cammel lirds

ya man how r u wear do u get into the camml lerds tunnels ?

ene 1 no of the priory tunnels ? wear thay start and go to ?

sick

I think they've given you bad info. there. The shaft is capped with at least 12" of re-inforced concrete. I watched the preparations. There is NO WAY through that. Also, there's never been any suggestion that these were called the Laird's tunnels; that's just an error by the author of the Echo article. Also, There's never been any suggestion that there was an entry to the tunnels from Laird's; they would have walked up Green Lane.

Anyone noticed that this is on page 9 of the Wirral globe? I will scan it later when I get home if anyone has not

our GLOBE hasnt turned up this week so would really appreciate a scan Mr Whelan. Ta

nope never had chance my parents threw it out b4 i could evan get a sniff of it bein deliverd

same here

You can read it on the Wirral Globe site here:
http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/3598533.Wirral___s_wartime_bunkers_revealed/

thanks for that chris, i'd missed that report myself...covered to make way for a road and housing.... its diabolical....

Yeah, saw the story, or small snippet in the globe!
To be honest, its not even dug deep (excuse pun!) into the story, we should be seeing more of our sub-terrainian (like the big word i made up?) heritage in the news! Wiki Investigation has turned up loads of stuff, and im sure WE would like it to be used to tell a story of our past. In a few years time, or sooner if left up to our councillors, all this will be lost under more demolished heritage or beurocratic paperwork!!
VIVA LA WIKIWIRRAL, VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!

You guys are unbelievable. I never heard of the Tranmere Tunnels, I worked for the old Birkenhead council in the '60's and lived about ten minute walk from the site. This is fantastic. I had been in the Bidston Hill tunnels when I was about 12-13yrs old. Very scary, probably one torch between ten of us and lots of ladders to up and down. Keep up the good work guys. All the best from Australia.

Dave Miller

I spent many hours down those tunnels as a lad.We used to climb up that shaft in Thompson St,at the top it was similar to a sub station type of building and we could see out of airbricks looking along the street.

There used to be 2 ways in one was at the back of Charlie Lanes scrap yard,which is now a trading estate alongside the Monkey steps and the other way where we entered was at the rear of a garage that now sells cars,right opposite the Yard pub at the top of Green lane.Rumour had it that the tunnels went even further,at least up into the area under Mersey park.I remember them being sealed up in around about 1978,due to two lads from St.Georges Ave getting lost in there with no torches,the police and fire brigade were involved and ordered them to be sealed.

A few years later it was rumoured that they were being used as a storage facility for the European food mountain as it was known then.

Happy days.

Chris;)

oggie..Welcome to the select few who have been down the shelters. When you have plenty of time, there are long threads on here about the Tranmere tunnels to be read!

The comment about them being used as a storage facility for the European Food Mountain is a new one.

The air bricks were fitted after the original wire mesh grills kept getting cut/pushed in by person or persons unknown !!

The furthermost extremity of the system was the shaft at Frodsham St./Redmond St.,(my school friend lived in the house next to the shaft head) and another shaft which is now under one of the new houses in Guy Close! They didn't go any further "inland" than that. A look at the plans that are lurking on here somewhere will show all.

As said many times before, Wirral Council are missing a unique opportunity to turn these shelters into a great tourist attraction as has been done elsewhere. Enough said !

Yes, welcome, Oggie. I never went into them myself, but I remember them being constructed. I had relations in Olive Crescent & remember hearing the explosions. Pinzgauer & myself happened to be at the shaft at the top of Holborn Hill when it was uncovered; it's possible that our knowledge prevented the digger from falling in! The funny part is that Pinzgauer lives in Scotland & I live in Shrewsbury & we had met to investigate something else. A day sooner or later & we'd have missed it. Elsewhere on the site is a report on a recent exploration of the Bidston tunnels, constructed at the same time, with a very good video, done by a few senior members of this site. Enjoy.

Cheers, Chris.

http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/3598533.Wirral___s_wartime_bunkers_revealed/
What the hell is this?? Seems a bit fabricated...Danny Ambrose, of Mellwood Construction???

No, not fabricated, the info. is basically correct. The only point I'd make is that Danny Ambrose, whoever he is in Mellwood Construction, was not really involved. Whether he told our contacts on site not to go down is debatable; probably covering himself for H&S.

I can't understand why the paper needed to pick up on it again.

thats what thay do!

True - some maggots crawled out of a wheelie bin the other week and it made the front page

Well I suppose it's a nice change from seeing Jade Goody and the likes on other newspapers haha

Fab pictures and thread. I went looking at the birkenhead tunnels when i was younger and remember being scared STIFF!!, very weird feeling around them, eerie.
I would defo go and have a good look around the different places, live in Moreton now so i might go and see if i can find the bidston hill entrances
Let me know if there will be any meets so we can all have a wee nose together

There is a bit of rubble up on hill but thats all really.

Wouldn't they call them Laird's tunnels because they were primarily for the workers of Laird's and their families?

I've never actually heard them called Laird's tunnels, except on here. Of course, they were used by the workers there, but also, tickets were issued to local residents (many of whom would no doubt have worked at Laird's). As I understand it, these shelters were intended for general use by the locals. They were constructed where they were because of the suitability of the site; the fact that they would be useful in protecting the Laird's workers was a bonus.

when i bought my house in marquis street ,that building was still there (18 years ago),it was removed about a year later iirc bceause the story goes that a kid got stuck in there but i never heard anything after that.you can still see in the pavement where this was by the shape of the pavement.covered over with tarmac now.

So, it was still there in 1990? Interesting. The capping wasn't that brilliant; there's evidence of slight subsidence in the pavement.

Cheers, Chris.

This is a fantastic read

cheers

Just to round off this topic. I came up yesterday & took a couple of pics of the site now it's finished. Working from my earlier pics & measurements, my red clipboard is on the centre of the shaft, +/- about a foot.

it really is a shame that these have not been turned into some sort of tourist atrraction.mind you it is not far to dig from that manhole...buisness oportunity for the house owner lol.

Going back to Oggies mention of the other access at Charlie Lane's scrap yard......I was on one of those old buses the other day at the Oxton Secret Garden's, and this old bloke, who has driven buses in Birkenhead since...well....forever, said he remembers exactly where the other entrance by the scrapyard is. He knew a lot of stuff, but I was with little people and couldn't stay for much of a natter.

So the thing is, is this a feasonable other entrance? What happened to it? Anyone know??

The guy was a mind of information, am going to try and find him again take him for a pint!! Find out what he knows. It seems there are a LOT of people with a LOT of knowledge who just don't use the internet.

Sally we know exactly where it is, pm me

we do yerr mate

TRANCENTRAL really interested about this any info you can post about it or would it have to be off forum pm

pm me dude!

I remember there being a gaping hole in the wall at the far end of the trading estate under the monkey steps when I was a kid in the '80's. Never went in though as we were all little shi*bags and would dare each other instead.It's bricked up now but is very noticable (grey brick against a black wall).I also remember there being some kind of cave/tunnel system hidden in the trees on Hoylake road (opposite the houses) but don't really know if they are connected...we just called them 'the caves' maybe someone can shed some light on these? and thanks to you all for the interesting read and pics guys...A job very well done

Chris

nearly forgot sent lol

cool try to keep pms please

I have not read all of the posts here but my recollections of the tunnel entrances/vents are as follows;

Vent shafts at Marquis street / Frodsham street, top of Holborn hill/olive mount and at the bottom of Frodsham street in the small strip between holt hill and hinderton road behind the advertising hoardings was a construction identical to the two previously mentioned.

Entrances - at the top of Green lane there was a petrol station and behind it was a small former quarry, in the wall under the houses on holborn hill quarry wall and i think perhaps two entrances in the former Charlie Lanes scrapyard.

this 1 is the only proper entrance left as i think to know

all shaft are sealed are,NT they

Hi, & welcome. Your memories of the tunnels seem reasonably correct, but the location you mention, between Holt Hill & Hinderton Rd. is below the level of the entrances, & also beyond the area of the tunnels, so couldn't have been connected. I wonder what it was. There was also a vent shaft you didn't mention; officially known as the Seymour St. shaft, but it was quite a way from Seymour St., near what was known as the ice cream factory. It's now in the garden of a house in Guy Close, map attached.
Hope you find lots on this site to interest you & we look forward to more of your contributions.
http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=53.38197~-3.021052&style=h&lvl=18&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

Edit: don't know why that hasn't come out as a clickable link, but it works if you copy & paste it.

great map we just need to circle them

1. is the shaft in the alley between Holborn Hill & Thompson St.
2. at the corner of Redmond/Frodsham Sts.
3. Guy Close

I think the sausage factory next to the monkey steps occupies an entrance

great stuff chris.

Hello Chriskay,

it may well be that the Hinderton road shaft(actually its the lowest point of Frodsham street but I do not know whether it was officially known as such, perhaps unadopted) was not associated with the tunnels however it must be higher than the entrances, (although by not much) Think about it, Holt hill descends all the way to its junction with hinderton road, the approximate elevation of the tunnel entrances. Is it known that the tunnels are completely level from their entry points, no sump area etc ?
Is it still there ? its not too clear from aerial views due to the vegetation, if it is and its not a shaft what is it ?
Now you mention it I do recall a shaft in the Guy close area although Guy close did not exist then, did that not used to be a car park for tour buses and perhaps ice cream vans, I thought the ice cream place was behind the sweet shop on Seymour street.

The purported "shaft" between Hinderton and Holburn at the end of Frodsham is an electricity sub-station, it has been confirmed that there is a large active transformer in there. This is just over 100 yards away from the nearest point of the tunnels, which is entrance No 3.

very interesting stuff massive

it makes me wanna go more

There's no evidence on any of the plans that the tunnels extended to that point. I think the sub station answer is correct. From the entrances in Holborn Square, there are steps down, since that point is higher than the other entrance. I don't remember ever seeing the shaft in the Guy Close area, but here's a pic. of it.

I suspected that the hinderton road structure might also be a substation. Thanks for the confirmation.
Now the picture is posted I can recall it, it was in the former workshop / parking lot area.

A little off topic but I was wondering if anyone knows about the tunnels underneath Mersey Park Primary. I am afraid I don't know much although it is perhaps just an underground area rather than tunnels....

I was speaking to one of the staff there today who has been down to them and it sounded very interesting that a school would have these underground tunnels??

Thank you

i used to play in them tunnels around 1990 and the police used to catch us a lot of the time which is why they bricked them up and knocked the shaft down to stop other people going in, there used to be another entrance by green lane station, inside ther was a big cafeteria like room still equipped with tables and chairs, as well as lots of corridoors with side rooms

Were about by green lane?

Probably the one in the quarry kimpri

pin no 3 is on my mothers front lawn !!!

I'm sure there are folk on here who would gladly offer to "do" your Mum's garden ! JCB. Pneumatic drill. Gas axe for re-bar cutting. Cover it over afterwards with a poncy-looking fibreglass well complete with garden gnome ! If only .........

i noticed something yesterday which may be off interest to this thread guys,just as you walk off queens street and up on to holt hill there are few houses ,next to those are yard that was called speedwell cladding i think,this has been demolished and it looks like they are knocking down the houses as well.behind these houses is a cottage with a nameplate "rose cottage" on the side which i have never noticed before,in the quarry wall behind this is what seems to be a tunnel hole,it is partially obscurred by bushes but has no signs of being bricked up or such,is this another known entrance to the tunnels? the area is fenced of with a green steel fence but i have not seen it before until they demolished one of the buildings....may be worth a look by someone who knows what they are looking at....

Certainly worth a look, but it's not on the plans (page 1 of this thread).

been for a look just holes mate joes got some pics to put up!

Went with TC for a look nothing there.

few pictures of old cottage

thats a shame,i thought i had discovered a new entrance lol.found this pic of the same yard ,the building with the diamond pattern is still on top of the hill

that rose cottage is a nice building and would make a nice home for someone,hope they are not demolishing that as well

Its called mine cottage,
Looks like its coming down.

dont know where i got the rose from,i was on my way home from work and very tired at the time,could of sworn it was rose cottage.did you see the hole in the wall from the road where i was looking and understand why i thought it may be a tunnel or was i very very tired at the time.lol

ye , went up to wall just a little hole carved out of sandstone?

does anybody know where the maps of the tunnels on here came from?

we got a few from the archives queen

the map only shows three entrances to the tunnel networks, and appears to only cover one leval?
this is not the case, i lived in olive crescent for 20 years of my life, and have been inside the network many times.
the map shows three entances although many people including you, often mistake it for only showing two (the two which are located against the quarry sandstone at the back of the industrial units on queen st) there another entrance on the quarry sandstone on holt hill, its right next to mine cottage, i dont know how you missed it as i didnt see it in your photographs and no mention of it in your write up.
there were in fact five main road entrances although the map cuts off before you can see the 4th and 5th, (located between mersey mount and sidney road, behind the new flats built) unfortunatly the quarry has been filled slightly covering up the entrances, i dont remember what year exactly they were filled i think about ten years ago. however you can still see where the guns were placed in the sandstone, that protected the entrances to the tunnels ( as is the same on all the other raod entrances)the network of tunnels reaches much further than the map shown also an upper level is missing which leads to the tunnels undernieth mersey park school, also a lower leval that leads to st wherburgs roman catholic school.
the air raid shelter and the tunnel network system were originaly built to protect camell lairds workers, their famililys and children.
as for the venalation shafts there are six all together (two of wich have been built on four have which of been capped.
as you can see by my photographs
kaz

holt hill entrance

gun mount holes at holt quarry entrance

atat gun storage at holt quarry entrance

and on the left atat ammo store chamber

gun hole mounts at the 4th and 5th road entrances between mersey mount and sidney road

road entrances 4 and 5 location between mersey mount and sidney road

very interesting info and photos kaz, thanks Sharing.

your very welcome

thats got me interested because your photo of the capped shaft is what i always assumed to be grage base or something but it does look awfully thick concrete,i should know as i am looking at out of my front room window lol,its right outside my house,have to have a closer look when it gets lighter tommorrow.

be carefull with it make sure you dont fall in lol
kaz

we have already established that there was a shaft at the corner of frodsham street and remond street,why would there be another shaft so close to this,it must only be about 50 feet away,where did you get the information that it was a capped shaft from ?

I am afraid there may be another system but this system has three entrances and three shafts.

from the guy who capped it.

good ponit boss.

kaz: I am a little surprised at your assertions that there are three levels in the system. I don't know what period of 20yrs you stayed in Olive Cres. but when at school, a good friend lived with his Mum at the end house in Frodsham St. ie. the vent shaft was within inches of his garden wall. We, and others went up & down the shafts at will. I've got to admit to not ever having climbed the shaft at the back of the Ice Cream "factory". Olive Mount (entry) and Frodsham St and the Holborn Hill quarry entrance were our 3 point entry/exit many, many times. Another classmate lived at the top of Holborn Hill. His garden fence was on the edge of the quarry. He and his Dad knew the tunnels far better than I. He was our initial guide.

The published plans are 99% correct. "As built" there are local modifications. Mostly blast wall locations are not exactly as shown on the plans.

Ignoring the intermediate platforms in the THREE shafts, sorry there are/were only three, there is only ONE level in the system. The datum is the Holborn Hill entrance. The drain (seepage-sewage combined) are obviously at the lowest level. They emerge from the Holborn Hill Quarry exit and went to a manhole in the middle of the quarry, thence to join up with the public sewer in Hinderton Rd.(?) Life would not be too pleasant on a level below this lot !!

Likewise, there are no levels above the datum whatsoever. I don't like pi**ing on folks bonfires, but your recollections don't tally with whats down there.

I've spent a lot of my life far from the light of day and know whats involved in driving levels - even through the easy medium of Middle Bunter and Keuper sandstone. The idea of tunnels to Mersey Park and St. Werburgs are a total myth. Vents shafts, ventilation arrangements, ruling gradient, spoil disposal. There are no records anywhere. I think one of us nosey, trespassing troglodytes would have spotted a branch/branches off the system, even if they had been "blind/trial headings" and not proceeded with.

Apologies for appearing a cantankerous old git, but I was there in the glorious late 50's, when it was mostly original and only minor damage had been done to the toilets, battery banks etc.

Comments/flaming awaited !

i appreciate and respect your opinion but thats all it is. an opinion! kaz

Gee Pinz, you got out of that one easy!

Yup. ha.ha. I'm still half expecting a knock at the door. However, my hand is poised over the "Release the Hounds" button just in case !

Ha ha lol don't fancy that

Mine Cottage shown earlier in this thread HERE was half demolished yesterday, it has probably gone as I write this

That's a great pity. I wondered if anyone was able to rescue that corner sandstone block with "Mine Cottage" engraved on it ?? Probably just smashed up by a JCB ! Sad.

Gutted, glad I took some pictures now. I need to buy an external hardrive fir everything.

I will try see if I can find the mine cottage stone tonight

That would be great if you can. I somehow think you may have a hard job on your hands though. Good luck.

Wheels,you might to want to put some gloves on

Just been to save the stone, I could not find it then a total demolitions van turned up. He shouted me and I walked over and explained that I was looking for the stone and he said the original owner had moved to Australia and they sent there son to get the stone earlier oh well all ended happy.

Thanks Wheels.

All that was so interesting, I only live down the road, I can remember the air raid shelters at the bottom of the monkey steps and when it got sealed off, is this the same location?

Yes, that's it. 2 entrances in what is now Holborn Square.

can the public visit these tunnels?

no mate there now sealed bud for now!!!

Welcome to the machine Margeymoo, and your spouse Moocheymoo?

And Brian8669

No its just me Margymoo, still finding it tricky navigating a round, how do I find out if any replies have been left to my response, found this jsut by accident xx

Fantastic humour, just had me laughing out loud. This is far better than watching TV!

Totally agree. The council do this with EVERYTHINK historical. If it means they have to spend a few pennies out of there BILLIONIAR pockets they say no. A**holes

Hmmm. Time for another petition, me wonders...? We have a fb page in situ..,few tweaks here and there..bit of additional support...??

totally agree queen

Just sat and read through this whole thread and loved every bit of it! I must admit that 'secret' underground things are becoming a fascination to me. I have heard of tunnels under Mersey Park also but thats all, just heard about them.
Also heard some other crazy underground stuff too like a large WWII vehicle storage space under the prenton park area. Emergency use wards under the main Arrowe park hospital building in a sub basement level.
Tunnels radiating from Arrowe Hall to the edges of the park that the gamekeeper used to stay ahed of poachers.
All this information came from the same person so if one story is crap then they must all be, problem is the same guy told me about the Tranmere + bidston hill tunnels ( although he did say that Bidston Tunnel had a hospital in them)
Anyway, thanks for keeping me entertained during my night shift.

Welcome mate, theres plenty more to see, there was a section for first aid in bidston tunnels, wasn`t very big but it was there
I`ve heard about arrow hall also, infact a few of us went out there looking but couldn`1t find much as it was all overgrown.

I used to play in those tunnels when I was a kid in the 60's. We had a Chandlers shop on the Junction of Hinderton Road, Green Lane and Queen Street. The Quarry was over the road from the Shop behind my uncles house in Queen street and one of the entrances to the tunnels was at the back of the Quarry. There was a false entrance too that only went in for a few meters.
I remember the shaft, we used to climb up the rusty ladder to the top where there was a huge fan and its motor. Strange how the memory plays tricks though, I could have sworn the sides of the tunnels were those rectangular white tiles.
I do remember that a lot of them were flooded so we didn't go too far into them as kids. Eventually they were sealed up and as far as I can remember they were used for storage for a while by the Navy?
I moved away from the area after the start of the 70's, so I don't know what happened to the place.
There was another entrance in the next Quarry along where Charlie Lane had a scrap yard after the cottages had been knocked down. Originally there was a little archway near the old Chemist shop opposite the Junction of Queen Street and Old Chester road and if you went though, there was a little group of dilapidated cottages nestling in the shadow of the sandstone quarry walls, totally isolated from the rest of the town. Quite magical... Ah the ramblings of an old man:)

Thanks for sharing Habdab

I thought you might be interested in something that happened in Tranmere in the 1950's. As I mentioned in an earlier post my uncle lived in Queen street at the top of Green lane, The rear of his house backed onto the Quarry where one of the entrances to the tunnels was found. Access to the Quarry was gained through an entry between Stewart's garage and Rowland's dairy. In the yard at the rear of my uncles house (now occupied by Corinthian Motors), they lifted a flag stone and discovered a deep shaft cut into the rock. Being the type of people they were, they could never just replace the cover without taking a peek inside, so a man was lowered down the shaft on a rope. He found a hand dug side passage running off through the sandstone towards Green lane and followed it as far as he could before being forced to turn back due to a cave in. The conclusion was that it was a bolt hole intended for use by the Monks at the old Birkenhead Priory.
Just how true the theory is I have no idea but it was popular at the time.
The foundations of Tranmere must be like a Swiss cheese.

That tunnel was more likely to be part of the drain system or other service duct for tranmere tunnels. There is substantial water ingress as you mentioned previously as well as toilets to cater for 6000 people. If that tunnel was not full of water it shows it probably is a drain.

Thanks for the info, something to watch out for

I suppose that's a possible answer but improbable as my uncle lived in that house way before those tunnels were built and the drainage system was installed. I think it would be likely he would have known had they dug a drainage tunnel through his back yard and under his house.

I have been all round the basement, sub basement and adjoining service tunnels and I have not seen any.

I would also like to take this opportunity to dispel the Arrowe park secret car park under maternity rumour which is also untrue. Apart from a handful of plant rooms and 2 switch rooms the only other place the public and general staff don't see under maternity is a reasonably big storage area that just contains two big water tanks,old light fittings, a couple of old floor buffers, a pool table and a few other bits.

I too can confirm what kevin is saying regarding the basement below the maternity block. Entrance which is adjacent to the staircase. Pleny of old bedside reading lights which they still use for spares !!

There used to be all sorts down there but they had a clear out at some point. We used to regularly go down there to rob bits off the old nurse call panels to repair other ones still in use and also to pinch the old style fire alarm interfaces. We treated it like a bone yard.
You can look through the air bricks and spy on the people walking around outside the front haha. Also occasionally you can hear women screaming in labour in the delivery room above.

Sorry. Totally off topic.

I used to be pushed to the quarry air raid shelter in my pram at the end of the war. My mother says it was like a mini town town there. In the early sixties it was opened up and refurbished as a nuclear bunker. My cousin was an electrician for the company that did the rewiring. They were astonished at how operational it still was.. It was all very hush hush and sealed up afterwards. I just remember the archway entrance closed with with a wooden gate and padlock in the fifties. Children were always breaking in. I lived in a bungalow built in the bomb debris on top of the quarry.

It really should be a site of historical/archaeological interest. At least its safe until there's money available.

I know this is an old post but just came across the reference to Marquis street,I remember working on a house in Marquis street,I think it was the left hand one in the middle block,can't remember when but it was a while back,I noticed there was a hole in the back garden with what looked like steps going down,not big enough to enter but big enough for the chap over the road who was doing some work on a house to lose a few barrow loads of hardcore down and still leave room for more.You could see some brickwork on one side (the other side was hidden)the steps were concrete and I think there was concrete on the top which had either moved or been broken.Thought this might trigger some more memories.

Thanks for your input. The information, (which we cannot at present find), is that the tunnels were assessed for possible use as a nuclear shelter and I suppose some re-wiring could have been done, but in the end they were judged unsuitable.

Were they really unsuitable? Were any suitable? The nuclear shelters constructed were not functional they were only to placate the masses. Best example is in Berlin where you get a perfect phone signal inside

.

wonder what was going on here today ? (its now bricked back up) posted on facebook today

Interesting; hope for more news.

I presume the big steel plate "fell off"? I'm also presuming that someone did a "sweep" of the tunnels before the brickies started work!!

I think you'll find that that's the entrance in Holborn Square, which I don't think ever had a steel plate. The one we looked at at the back of the garage is where there was a plate.

Yup.. you are quite right Chris. My mistake. It's an age thing !

Time to get the sledgehammer out tc

New Topic Tranmere Tunnels - Inside the Shaft Part 2 Access Click me