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Posted By: chriskay Storeton Tramway Relic - 17th Jul 2008 1:58pm
Next time you're in the area, take a look at the wall at the top of Rest Hill Rd. where it meets Mount Rd. Some of the old sleeper blocks from the Storeton Tramway were used to repair it at some time. They are the ones with 3 or 4 holes in. The holes would have had wooden pegs in, into which the iron spike would be hammered to hold the rail.

Attached picture Sleeper blocks sm.jpg
Attached picture sleeper blocks.jpg
Posted By: Brocks Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 17th Jul 2008 2:43pm
I've often wondered what they were!
Posted By: Mondeo_Scott Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 17th Jul 2008 3:47pm
iv never actually noticed these but i will now someones pointed them out and i will know wot they was for hehehehe
Posted By: SoundLad Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 17th Jul 2008 10:12pm
Chris you do it again.. Ive always wondered what those holes where for.. Thank you happy
Posted By: rentaclown100 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 21st Jul 2008 9:22pm
where the path starts, the rails are still sticking out from the edge of the road as they are still under the tarmac. the rail sections were bought second-hand from the liverpool-manchester railway and were the first rails used when this first passenger railway opened in 1830. go dig up the road guys, there be history in dem thar hills
Posted By: rentaclown100 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 21st Jul 2008 9:36pm
aint been there for years, but the rails did stick out, can anyone get pics if still there?

Attached picture storeton.jpg
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 22nd Jul 2008 8:26am
As a child, I remember when you could see the rails crossing Rest Hill road. Subsequent layers of tarmac covered them, but I guess they're still there.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 22nd Jul 2008 9:51am
The stub end of a rail was still sticking out from the edge of the tarmac in the mid/late 70's. It was the ancient "Fish Belly" type rail. As rentaclown quite rightly said, 2nd hand from the L'pool-Manchester line.

Always had it in the back of my mind to nip up one night with a hacksaw to "rescue" a small piece. Never did though.

MMmmm... vandalism, theft, going equipped ??? Wot ME ??????
Posted By: AR_One Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 22nd Jul 2008 1:45pm
Cool, I love when you can see things like that. Two other examples of little bits of history:

1. On the Strand in Liverpool opposite the Balic Fleet pub there are some metal plates still attached to the wall - these are all that remains of the metal supports of the over head railway.

2. A bit further afield - on the way into Newcastle, on the A69 just before its junction with the A1 is part Hadrians wall and a bus-stop that appears to of been made out parts of said Roman Wall!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 22nd Jul 2008 1:55pm
av never noticed these think
Posted By: hoseman Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 22nd Jul 2008 6:07pm
MMmmm... vandalism, theft, going equipped ??? Wot ME ??????

Pinz, what has this site done to you??
Sounds like you are verilly corrupted - welcome to Wikiwirral!!!! thumbsup
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 22nd Jul 2008 6:32pm
ha. ha ! Good one ! Many thanks for your welcome to Skid Row !!!

Oops! Didn't mean that !!!
Posted By: rentaclown100 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 26th Jul 2008 2:40pm
ther are loads of lor remnants built into dock walls like near malmaison. the rails are no longer visible, think they been buried and the council wont be too pleased if i take a pick axe to it. took airwolf dog for a walk there today

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Attached picture 26072008171.jpg
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 26th Jul 2008 4:05pm
Are those pics from Storeton Woods? I think so. If they are where I remember, it's where the track turned eastward & passed through the Great Cutting to the North quarry. There's virtually no trace of the cutting now, but if you know where it was, you can just make it out. Of course, the quarry & cutting were filled with the spoil from the Mersey Tunnel around 1930. Just at the point where the preserved tracks are, there's an oak tree which I used to climb as a boy & sit at the top, listening to the trains labouring up Storeton Bank on the Bidston - Wrexham line.
Posted By: dave_g Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 26th Jul 2008 11:30pm
i remember the tracks went across the road cos i used to take my bike up there alot but its amazin the stuff u dont see/realize at the time!
Posted By: LukeORourke Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 27th Jul 2008 11:38am
i've walked along there i used to walk to the woods from tranmere with my dog
Posted By: rentaclown100 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 27th Jul 2008 12:09pm
like you said chris, those rails are sitting wher it turns, still quite obvious where it headed
Posted By: Shambo Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 7th Aug 2008 4:16am
I've found an old map of the Storeton Tramway here...
http://www.friendsofstoretonwoods.org.uk/images/gy_images/old_map_combined.gif
Posted By: dingle Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 20th Aug 2008 11:24am
What about the old concrete bunkers and concrete sheds at the back of the Woods, did they have anything to do with the Tramway, because I always thought that was an old army barracks. Have you seen the dinosaur footprint in British Museum(I think) from Storeton Quarry. I remember climbing up the quarry wall as a kid, I think about it now ooooooooooooooh.

Dave Miller
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 20th Aug 2008 12:32pm
Don't remember any bunkers and sheds; where exactly were they? If you climbed in the quarry in the woods you must be older than I am! it was filled in in the early 1930's.

Chris.
Posted By: dingle Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 21st Aug 2008 11:02am
As far as I remember the quarry(A quarry) was still there in the late 50's early 60's. It was on the east side of Mt Rd between Bracken Lane and Village Rd. It was a fairly large hole with a lot of water in it. Looking back now (48yrs) it seems that the eastern edge which was a rock face was probably level with Mt Rd. I can see on GoogleMaps some open space which maybe the area. We also used to play in an old L shaped house somewhere near the woods on the west side same side as the concrete bunker stuff, I remember because I was nearly hit by a large piece of roofing slate when I was climbing out of one of the windows. It looks suspiciously like Storeton House. Now I know they were there because we used to play soldiers and lock each other in the concrete bunkers. They had steel doors with steel pull down locking handles. And that is about all I remember.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 21st Aug 2008 12:33pm
Yes, the East quarry was there until it was filled with the spoil from the Wallasey tunnel. The quarries in the woods were filled with the spoil from the Queensway tunnel in the late 1920's. If you look in the now & then section, there's a post by BMW Joe entitled Mount Rd. Higher Bebington. which shows the quarry you remember.
The L shaped house was probably Woodside Cottage, where the tramway crossed Rest Hill Rd. I expect you will remember where you could see the tracks crossing the road, embedded in the tarmac.
Now, the bunkers. It's a long time ago; is it possible you are mistaken about the location? Near the woods, about 400 yards down from the top of Lever Causeway, on the right, there was a radar station which was abandoned after the war and was much as you describe. The buildings were semi-sunken in the ground & had the steel doors & handles. I remember when the aerial pylon was still there, but if I judge your age correctly it was probably removed when you knew it.
Photo with location attached

Cheers, Chris.

Attached picture Location.jpg
Posted By: AR_One Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 21st Aug 2008 2:58pm
I remember the radar station - I used to play there in the 80s - found a dead cat full of maggots once!!!!!!

Was demolished about 15 years ago I think. There's also something in the field past the end of the Stanley av - if you drive to the very end it can be seen in the distance with a security fence round it.
Posted By: dingle Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 22nd Aug 2008 11:50am
Chris, thats sound like it. It is funny how your mind goes after about 30+ years. You guys are doing a fantastic job and I really am enjoying this site. I hope I can contribute more.

Dave Miller
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 22nd Aug 2008 3:50pm
Originally Posted by mindplayer
Chris, thats sound like it. It is funny how your mind goes after about 30+ years. You guys are doing a fantastic job and I really am enjoying this site. I hope I can contribute more.

Dave Miller


If your mind's going after 30 years, what do you think it's like for me after 60 years? thumbsdown All of us remember bits; with any luck, all different bits & between us we may come up with the answer. A classic recently is when I remembered the Tranmere tunnels vent shaft at the top of Holborn Hill in one place but Pinzgauer remembered it on the other side of the alley: turns out we were both right! Please keep telling what you remember.

Cheers, Chris.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 9:11am
Half way through the woods, on the semi overgrown walk nearest to Mount road there is what looks like an old part of a tramline appearing through the muddy path. No doubt as the water dries up I will be able to see it better. It looks exactly like the ones that used to be visible on the road between the woods when I was younger.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 10:07am
Originally Posted by bernie66
Half way through the woods, on the semi overgrown walk nearest to Mount road there is what looks like an old part of a tramline appearing through the muddy path. No doubt as the water dries up I will be able to see it better. It looks exactly like the ones that used to be visible on the road between the woods when I was younger.


Hi, Bernie; a pic & precise location would be good if you get a chance. I presume it's not the one with the plaque shown earlier in this thread, where the line turned from the embankment into the cutting? The location of some more of the track would be very interesting.

Cheers, Chris.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 10:32am
No, its not. Its right at the top by Mount road about 100-150 yards along to the left. if you walk about 20 yards in from the entrance on Mount Road and turn left you will come to it. I will atke a photo but it might not be until the weekend. I will try to find a second one-I guess about two and ahalf feet apart?
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 11:38am
If the entrance on Mount Rd. is the one nearly opposite Mill Rd. a bit to the right if you are standing in Mill Rd. then that would be on the site of the quarry itself, which when it was in use would have been maybe 80 feet deep, so any rails would have been at the bottom. Can you see if the rail is of the fish belly profile, like the preserved & labelled bit at the embankment?
Here's a pic.
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10246962&wwwflag=2&imagepos=3
The gauge was standard gauge: 4' 8 1/2"

Cheers, Chris.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 11:56am
will have a good nose around and take a couple of photos at wkend.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 7:18pm
Popped in there today, this is the only thing I could find which is only a piece of pipe or rod (fence rod?) because I poked a stick under it. I got to admit that it felt more solid when I kicked it.

Location was guessed by popping my head over wall to see where I was, which was exactly half way along the straight bit of that layby bit of Mount Road.


Attached picture StoretonRod-S8002854s.JPG
Attached picture StoretonRod-S8002855s.JPG

Description: Approx location
Attached picture StoretonRod-Aerial.JPG
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 7:31pm
As you say, looks like a piece of pipe; certainly not a rail.
Posted By: scoops Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 8:09pm
Hard to tell without a scale but it looks like a scaffolding pole to me.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 8:29pm
Sorry, no scale - it was somewhere between half and one inch diameter.

Colours not very good on picture, it was similar to rail material, no significant rust, nice smooth finish from people walking on it.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 10:17pm
Yep, thats what I thought might be tramline. Never mind hey, I will carry on watching the buzzard who seems to have taken residence around that part of the wood instead of looking for non-existant historical relics. :-)
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 25th Feb 2009 11:21pm
No, No, keep looking, you never know what you might turn up. Enjoy the buzzard; splendid birds.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 2:39pm
The benchmarks on several of the gateposts around the wood. Are they obsolete and forgotten. I can't find mention of them in
http://www.bench-marks.org.uk/




Attached picture 05032009(007).jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 4:42pm
These type of benchmark are not normally recorded, there are thousands of them. The ones on the database are the plate (or bracket) type plus the trig points etc.

If you want a mooch around those woods, have a look all round the lump on one side (nearest mount rd, though that is a distance away) of the big pit where the rope swings are, I'd like a second opinion.
Posted By: Jamie_LFC Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 5:07pm
Thats what they are thanks man smile
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 5:10pm
Depends on the scale of the map. Benchmarks such as in the photo (corners of old buildings are common) are shown on 6" to mile (1:10,560) maps and others.

Just happen to be gazing at an old 6" map right now.
Posted By: Jamie_LFC Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 5:50pm
It looks quite similar to the "Campsite" Symbol on maps.
Anyone Agree?
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 6:14pm
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper

If you want a mooch around those woods, have a look all round the lump on one side (nearest mount rd, though that is a distance away) of the big pit where the rope swings are, I'd like a second opinion.


What is the first opinion, and can you be a litle more specific. Are you referring to the first wood off Marsh Lane or the second one with the mast in it?

I thought I knew those woods quite well but only today really loked at the remains of the wall which runs along the sides, against Mount Road and also for a distance along the barbed wire against the fields.
I assume that it was the wall of the old quarry as fields did not have walls usually
Posted By: greasby_lad Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 7:34pm
Benchmarks are a subject on their own. Old benchmarks are based on Ordnance Survey Datum Liverpool. The standards were revised between 1912 and 1921 and thereafter heights were shown based on Ordnance Survey Datum Newlyn. The difference between the two readings varies around the country - in Wirral it is about 2 inches but in Norfolk it is about 18 inches.
I have an early 20th century map of Norfolk which has benchmarks and spot heights measured in feet above mean sea level at Newlyn, but the contour lines refer to the 'old' mean sea level at Liverpool and the legend warns "There may thus be discrepancies of some inches between the contours and the bench marks and spot levels".
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 7:43pm
So what would that have signified and how can I look into it more? Any ideas?
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 7:48pm
Ok here is a picture of one end of the lump, I know a lot of WW2 clearance was dumped at storeton but I think it funny that this "apex" would be the right way up, and following the lump along, the other end seems to have some brickwork.


Attached picture S8002856s.JPG
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 7:56pm
Have you "dug any deeper"? And can I have a few more specifics to find the location, not sure at all where you mean
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 7:59pm
Piccy (don't ask about the hand at the bottom of the picture, that was just resting on rest hill grin )

Attached picture StoretonWoodsLump.jpg
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 8:07pm
That was nowhere near where I thought you meant. I will have a nose around next time I am off. With a stick to dig with
Posted By: Jamie_LFC Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 8:22pm
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Piccy (don't ask about the hand at the bottom of the picture, that was just resting on rest hill grin )


Lets Pardon the pun

Sorry But I Find It Fun to go off topic laugh
Posted By: TRANCENTRAL Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 8:51pm
You could be on to something here guys!
Posted By: Jamie_LFC Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:01pm
i think TC can feel a UE Coming on...
Posted By: TRANCENTRAL Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:09pm
so can i kid!
Posted By: Jamie_LFC Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:16pm
Hmm start a forum up in the UE Bit smile
Posted By: TRANCENTRAL Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:18pm
might well do!
Posted By: Jamie_LFC Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:22pm
Your Excited laugh
Posted By: TRANCENTRAL Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:28pm
might well be you up for?
Posted By: Jamie_LFC Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:31pm
Possibly...Dunno tho
Posted By: pacef8 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:55pm
my mum and family grew up in the house on the bend in the valley rest hill road.
i will ask her for some more info.
i have fond memories of the area.
My granddad was a farm hand for levers and used to drive the cattle down the wiend onto the dock road and down the floating road onto the irish boats.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 5th Mar 2009 9:58pm
Please do.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 10th Mar 2009 3:29pm
I had a look around today but couldn't locate the "apex". If you are going to have another look yourself you will need to do it fairly soon as the brambles are starting to grow in places.

Alternativley if you can zoom the picture out abit and repost I will recognise the spot from the trees. Also try to give guidance as to whether it is visible from a path, if so is it the main path upper path or the smaller one nearer the field etc
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 10th Mar 2009 5:02pm
Ok bernie, sorry about that, I am not particularly familiar with the woods, it was far more overgrown when I was young and so the minor paths were much more clearly defined.

When you find the pit you will know it, it must be about 80ft in diameter and about 20 ft deep, the Apex is on the edge towards Mount Road.

On the map above I only guessed the pit was the big clearing, it may be the other clearing south of that, or the less defined clearing roughly between the two. I was walking around in circles at the time looking at something biological, which I won't mention for fear of being awarded the umbiquitous "triple anorak" (that should trigger MissG and PJ - offtopic before you start mad no shh ), and so I am not too aware of the precise location, other than it is west of the ridge that runs along parallel to mount road.

I will take sat nav next time, was doing that the other day and got some really strange looks, walker with sat nav?
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 10th Mar 2009 5:26pm
I took sat nav and couldn't get a signal at all. Plenty of Jews Ears mushrooms on all the Elderberry trees so tea is half foraged-always a good sign in my book!
Weekend is next time I might get the chance to look.

Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 10th Mar 2009 8:52pm
Right, went for a brisk walk earlier, place looks nothing like I remember even though it was only a couple of weeks ago. Looks like someone has been doing some clearance, also the undergrowth seems less. Forgot to take satnav again but got a foolproof way of finding it. It doesn't look so convincing now there is less undergrowth, the ground is much more of an angle than I thought - it did look flatish. Right lets get walking .... if you go along the tram track to near the end you find these bits of rail ...


Description: If you stand on top of the tram rails and look at rightangles to them, into the wood you will see this ....
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003119s.JPG

Description: Just underneath the "V" in the distance there are some kids playing on rope swings (they may not always be there!) - head to the rope swings.
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003122s.JPG

Description: If you stand by the rope swings you should be at the edge of the pit and underneath the "V" is the apex .....
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003125s.JPG
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003126s.JPG

Description: A view from the side
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003127s.JPG
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 10th Mar 2009 8:55pm
more


Description: side view of the back end of the lump/ridge
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003128s.JPG

Description: And further back
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003129s.JPG

Description: Up towards the back
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003130s.JPG
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 10th Mar 2009 8:58pm
Just a couple more pictures that I took ...


Description: Behind the ridge beside an exceptionally slippy path that almost had me eating dirt is this stone wall linel
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003123s.JPG

Description: And just for anyone that wants to know, this is the plaque that was by the rails on the first picture.
Attached picture StoretonApexS8003120s.JPG
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 10th Mar 2009 11:01pm
If you're standing at the preserved rails & looking East, toward Mount Rd. you're looking into the Great Cutting, through which the tramway went into the North quarry. Although mostly filled, you can still the line of it.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 11th Mar 2009 7:54am
I was about 200 yards away yesterday so had no chance

Will have a good look at weekend all things being equal. The ground around that point is very spongy. I can be walking along and my foot suddenly go down 4 inches more than it "should", when I plunge my walking stick into it in some places it will go down nearly a foot before hitting anything solid. I know it's full of rubble but I guess there could be voids. There is a large block of concrete right around that area about 8 inches thick and two feet wide standing on its end, can't see the bottom of it, its too deep into the soil and can't see whether it is blocking an entrance, I suspect not, I think it has just been dumped there and landed in an upright position.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 11th Mar 2009 7:13pm
Originally Posted by bernie66
I was about 200 yards away yesterday so had no chance


Ok, I will put my hand up for half of that, I think my pin is about 70 yards away from where it should be, North/South wise it should be level with the southern house on that Mount Road layby road thingy.

I paced 200 longish paces south of the mount road entrance, in my head I equated that to 150 yards taking into account the slippy terrain (torvill and dean eat your hearts out, try taking long paces on hardish slippy mud) but it looks like the 200 is fairly accurate, so the pirouettes did pay off.

I've yet to find that openening where the pin was, everywhere seems to have about the same level of tree cover, it is too far into the woods for the "cutting" at the end of the tram line, isn't it?
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 11th Mar 2009 10:28pm
i reckon that I know pretty much exactly where it is now- famous last words and all that. You might need to send a search party out for me if I dont report back on saturday evening. Actually a night in storeton woods is quite pleasant if planned, a completely different world.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Mar 2009 10:55am
Is this any help? It's from the book "The Storeton Tramway" by R.C.Jermy. I think the road off Mount Rd. to the right, is Mill Rd. Using the scale on the map, the path shown, in alignment with the Great Cutting, is 120 yards South of Mill Rd.

Attached picture 2009-03-13 10-43-30_0229.jpg
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Mar 2009 1:24pm
Had a quick browse around, the apex extends about two feet into the ground on the right at least and is a solid structure. sadly no sign of other iron structure around there. If I had a spade etc and time and permission I would like to dig around that and the mound to the left as they are not solid underfoot and have "space in the soil" behind one large piece of concrete and below another.



Attached picture 12032009(003).jpg
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Mar 2009 1:27pm
40 yards to the left is this, hollow below to some extent. Feels like it could be worth a nose at.

Attached picture 12032009(009).jpg
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Mar 2009 1:30pm
That picture above needs rotating but I don't know how to do it.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Mar 2009 1:32pm
This one shows the potential space behind/below the concrete

Attached picture 12032009(006).jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Mar 2009 4:39pm
Very good Bernie, there have always been too many people/kids around whenever I've been there to have a good kick on the apex to see how solid it is (good archaelogical survey technique).

The apex will be very close to the middle on the bottom edge of Chris' map. I wonder why the pit was there, either it sank or was purposeful.

I am assuming the remnant of rail is in the correct place just on the entrance to the great cutting, I didn't realise the line carried on past the great cutting and then divides in two, is that a turnstile or whatever you call it for trains/trams/trolleys?

The only area I had a proper poke around turned out to be the hollow after a dead tree had fully decomposed, it looked good until I found the stump.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Mar 2009 6:07pm
there is definately something worth more poking around at. It could obviously be space in between huge lumps of rubble but it might not be. I think I will spend some time on the internet trying to get as much info as possible about the quarry to try to work out what I might be looking for. I could do with an exact GPS location of the split in the line to see if it compares with the coordinates I have for the shed structure- I think it is too far to the right .
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Mar 2009 10:57pm
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
I didn't realise the line carried on past the great cutting and then divides in two, is that a turnstile or whatever you call it for trains/trams/trolleys?


Yes, that looks like a turntable.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 14th Mar 2009 4:35pm
I was in the woods for nearly two hours taking pictures and GPS readings, unfortunately, the GPS readings are not accurate enough to make sense (I measured a resolution of about 30yds). Anyway, I am pretty sure I know where the turntable was and that is just a few yards south of the rod that started this topic.

The Apex most certainly isn't part of a larger structure.

Bernie's concrete block is on the corner immediately south of the entrance to the great cutting, the northern corner has other material, these might just be scrapings from some bulldozing.

I understand how the quarry was formed, basically they didn't dig down - they dug sideways - firstly along the great cutting then north and south from the turntable position. I strogly suspect they went south first and gave up on this part then headed north - all of this going HORIZONTAL the tram lins were at the bottom of the pits and level with the entrance to the great cutting.

The western wall of the "North of turntable" quarry is very clear to see, you can see the rock, the eastern wall is presumably in the ramp up to the Mount Road wall, which is starting to get too brambley to penetrate and is builtup with soil.

Looking at the growth - I would say the pit to the south of the turntable was closed and filled in along time before the pit to the North, because everything to the north is clear to see.

Here is a map showing the great cutting and the Northern Pit .. the great cutting DEFINATELY goes straight through the middle of the opening. You can see the western line of the pit quite clearly.


Attached picture StoretonGreatCutting.jpg
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 14th Mar 2009 6:13pm
Thanks for that report. I'm sure your analysis of the site is correct. The line was pretty well level from the turntable to the Mount Rd. tunnel, with a variation of no more than about 10 feet. After that, it descended to the Stone Quay quite rapidly, with a gradient of up to 1 in 20. The only motive power used was Shire horses; they would haul laden wagons from the quarry to the eastern end of the Mount Rd. tunnel, from where gravity would take over. The horses would haul the empty wagons back to the quarry.
Posted By: bernie66 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 14th Mar 2009 7:28pm
its fascinating to try to imagine it all those years ago.
Posted By: jimbob Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 14th Mar 2009 9:50pm
Who else remembers the large deep section of the storton quarry that was on the other side of mount road been filled in. Seem to remember it was during the 1960s or perhaps the early 70s
Posted By: bert1 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 14th Mar 2009 10:00pm
Originally Posted by jimbob
Who else remembers the large deep section of the storton quarry that was on the other side of mount road been filled in. Seem to remember it was during the 1960s or perhaps the early 70s


I do, it was probably 70s. it was bought as an investment for future building land. I am not sure but it may have been free or cheap tipping of certain materials till the quarry had been filled in. I remember as they got near to the top only soil could be tipped. As far as i know, so many years have to pass for the land to settle before building can commence.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 14th Mar 2009 11:44pm
Yes, I remember it well, back in the 1940's/50's. It had water in the bottom as I remember. It was filled in in the late '60's with the spoil from the Wallasey tunnel. I don't know how long it has to be left before it can be built on, but it looks like a prime site (well, maybe not at present). However, the bit of land at the East end of the Mount Rd. tunnel has been filled in & built on.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 12:38pm
Right, I will try and do a walkthrough from the photographs I took ....


Description: Map of woods with Mount Rd on right, the top clearing also has a seat now.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003138s.JPG

Description: Starting at the Mount Road entrance
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003140s.JPG

Description: Looking South, all this brushwood area is the quarry pit and some of the trees on the left(east) to the right the tree line is rouhly the Quarry's Western Wall
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003141s.JPG

Description: Moving southward a bit and you can clearly see the Western wall
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003143s.JPG

Description: A bit further south the western wall continuing
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003144s.JPG
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 12:54pm
more


Description: Carrying on southward and the western wall continues...
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003145s.JPG

Description: Turning round and looking northward over the quarry we have just come down.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003146s.JPG

Description: And looking Northeast to the eastern wall
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003147s.JPG

Description: Looking West down the Great Cutting, probably standing roughly on the Western edge of the Quarry
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003149s.JPG

Description: Looking westward down the great cutting from what would be the eastern edge of the tram turntable area
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003151s.JPG
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 1:14pm
more


Description: Looking eastward at the eastern edge of the quarry level with the tram turntable area, very difficult to get through, this is the Mount Road Wall.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003155s.JPG

Description: Looking eastward down the great cutting from where it cross the "middle" path (out of the three north-south paths on the eastern side of woods.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003156s.JPG

Description: Looking southward from where the great cutting crosses the "middle" path (out of the three north-south paths on the eastern side of woods.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003157s.JPG

Description: Looking westward down the great cutting from where it cross the "middle" path (out of the three north-south paths on the eastern side of woods. You can see the next path followed by the clearing.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003158s.JPG

Description: Looking northward from where the great cutting crosses the "middle" path (out of the three north-south paths on the eastern side of woods.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003159s.JPG

Description: Looking westward back along the great cutting from where it cross the path nearest the clearing.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003162s.JPG

Description: Looking eastward down the great cutting from where it crosses path nearest the clearing - and looking through the clearing.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003164s.JPG

Description: Looking eastward back along the great cutting from the western edge of clearing.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003168s.JPG

Description: Looking westward at the western edge of the clearing down the great cutting, there is a big drop the other side of this brushwood into the exposed cutting.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003166s.JPG

Description: Looking eastward up the expose great cutting from roughly where the tram lines are.
Attached picture StoretonQuarry-S8003173s.JPG
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 2:16pm
A nice series; thanks. Now, from the point where you took the last pic., the line ran level into the quarry, so if we were able to figure out how much higher the Western edge of the quarry is, we'd know the depth. Any surveyors on here?
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 2:36pm
Highest reading on GPS was 83 yds and lowest was 65 yds, but again resolution of GPS was poor and only had 6 satellites up, need around 10 to get reasonable accuracy on height.

The 18 yds above sounds about right, I can't imagine a narrowish cutting with a depth of more than 54 ft, definately a hard-hat zone!

@Chris Are your 1:10 and 1:20 figures quotes for this quarry or normal practice?

I could string it to find out but too much risk of decapitating dogs/kids/people.

Have we got BMs on maps?
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 3:21pm
Your GPS figures are in the ballpark with those I've just got on Google Earth, (but I don't know how accurate they are). I get: Western edge = 237ft. & preserved rails point = 200ft. However, I've just found some info. in the book about the Mersey Tunnel (Queensway). This was published in 1934 to commemorate the opening & contains much technical detail. I'll paraphrase the relevant bit.
"Filling of Storeton quarry...over 500 yards long & varying in depth from 25 to 80ft." (They dumped 453,000 tons there).
My thoughts now are: the line came through the cutting to the turntable & then lines radiated from there as shown on the drawing I posted earlier. All this essentially on the level. Then the quarry, apart from where the tracks were, was dug deeper & the stone lifted to track level by crane. Cranes are shown on the drawing, although these would have been needed anyway just to lift from track level onto the wagons. This could account for the
"25 to 80ft." So; maybe the turntable was only 25ft. below the rim & that would also have been the maximum depth of the Great Cutting.
My previous quoted 1:20 gradient is from "The Storeton Tramway" book. I didn't say a 1:10 gradient, but noted that the total height variation from turntable to Mount Rd. tunnel was no more than 10ft. This also from figures in the book.
Can't find a map of the area with BM's; don't think there'd be any in the middle of the woods anyway.

Cheers, Chris.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 4:44pm
My eye popped out my head when I read 500 yds, but that quarry map above was 1870, quarry carried on northward after that and of course they must be including the south quarry as well.

Here is 1918 map which gives quarry about 500 yds end of north to end of south minus a bit for the middle.

I notice the road entrance to the quarry from the north, I thought I noticed another gap in the west wall, this will be another cutting.

The two huts are on the 1913 map.


Description: Map of Storeton Quarry 1913
Attached picture MapStoretonQuarry1913.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 4:53pm
BTW we have benchmarks 217ft to 230ft along Mount Road and 184 ft at line level where it crosses Rest Hill Rd which taking about 12ft off for drop from mount rd to quarry edge level gives about 27 ft which agrees with your last post. So it looks like the north part of the northern quarry dropped on average from 25ft deep to 80ft deep over a distance of about 650ft which equates to an average incline of 1:8 so if it was 1:20 incline from turntable then nearly two thirds of the north part of the northern quarry could be at 80ft deep.

Always worries me that they are blasting the face that the cranes stand on.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 6:24pm
The (up to)1:20 incline refers to the track from the Mount Rd. tunnel to the river. I believe that, because of the use of horses, the line in & from the quarry to Mount Rd. tunnel was essentially level.
Incidentally, to dump 453,000 tons of sandstone from the tunnel would need a volume of about 238,000 cu. yds., allowing 1.9 tons/cu.yd.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 6:56pm
Yep, that ties up very nicely, if the quarry was an average of 40 yds wide and 500 yds long it would need and average depth of 35ft to do that. So the figures are cetainly in the right order. The southern part of the north quarry and the south quarry couldn't have an average depth as deep as the northern part of the north quarry.

I'm still wondering if they do slope, the horses only pulled empty waggons/trams on line to/from river because it was all down hill when laden and a number of places mention free-wheeling.

I have seen some quarries with overhead tracks on wooden frames/trellis. If they are loaded by crane it wouldn't matter.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 15th Mar 2009 9:47pm
I've now found some height figures in my book "The Storeton Tramway" by R.C.Jermy. Heights are in feet.
North quarry wagon turntable 200
Start of Storeton woods embankment 199
Rest Hill crossing 184 (As your benchmark)
Mount Rd. tunnel (end) 204

So the hardest part for the horses was between Rest Hill & the Mount Rd. tunnel; a climb of 20ft. through Hancock's Wood.
When I was a child, the Mount Rd. tunnel was only half filled in & you could get inside. The tunnel was approached through a cutting. At some time, the first half of the tunnel collapsed; this can still be seen, in the woods, right next to the Mount Rd. wall. Grid Ref. SJ315842
Now that your interest in the quarry has been aroused, you may want R.C.Jermy's book "The Storeton Tramway". It's usually available on Amazon.

Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 13th Feb 2010 2:49am
The archives also have records from the quarries.

Clicky
Posted By: bri445 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 18th Feb 2010 7:35pm
A bit more history of the rails. As we know, they were probably bought secondhand from the Liverpool & Manchester Railway when they upgraded theirs to heavier type.
This is a description of the original L & M R rail, and how it is retained in the chair. (It's from Hebert's Encyclopaedia of the Machinery, dated 1836, Vol.2.)
Would it be possible for some kind local 'addict' to do a close-up photo of the end of the rail and the chair with the wedging pin fitted, to prove the connection with the L & R rails. (A light wire brushing would be usefull!)
I've cropped a bit of diggingdeeper's photo of March 09 to show where I mean, unless there is a better example elsewhere.

Cheers all
Bri



Attached picture dd 10-3-09 a.jpg
Attached picture Scan-100218-0001a.jpg
Posted By: greasbyrover Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 9th Aug 2010 9:15am
I've only just discovered this thread after reading about the Storeton quarries on another site. Some great research here, what a fantastic place it must have been at the height of it's activity. It's a real shame that a lot more of the tramway couldn't have been preserved.
Posted By: Capt_America Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 9th Aug 2010 2:48pm
Welcome to the WikiWirral machine Greasbyrover enjoy looking around.
Posted By: greasbyrover Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 11th Aug 2010 4:15pm
Do we know if the railway tracks were removed at some stage after the quarries were closed down or are they still buried under the woods? Similarly, what happened to the tracks for the part of the line from the quarry on the east side of Mount Road to the river near Port Sunlight? I've tried to order "The Storeton Tramway" book but unfortunately it's not available on Amazon at the moment. It's a fascinating subject. I've had a good look around and am still trying to locate where the cutting was made to start the tunnel that ran underneath Mount Road. I think I've found the collapsed part of it which is right up against the wall on Mount Road, near a couple of rope swings, about 50 yards south of the TV mast, but can't find the start of it.
Posted By: bri445 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 11th Aug 2010 6:59pm
greasbyrover: This has also been covered in another thread/topic:
https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/359268/Re_Mount_Rd_Higher_Bebington.html
Posted By: Rhoobarb Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 28th May 2011 8:41pm
Just been looking at the tithe maps and spotted that the tramway went through what is now Elmure and Wilstan Avenues.

I grew up in the area and it's just dawned on me having looked at the maps that there's another relic of the tramway still in existance.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=elmure+avenue+bebington&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hl=en&hq=&hnear=Elmure+Ave,+United+Kingdom&ll=53.349796,-3.027039&spn=0.000887,0.003433&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.349773,-3.027206&panoid=6mWi5L4PZcyMGphoTvcC5w&cbp=12,254.5,,0,0

There's a house or two up there, but it has the looking of what used to be a cutting to me.

If you pan the map out it lines up with the tunnel.



Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 28th May 2011 9:21pm
Think you're right.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 30th May 2011 9:22am
Here's confirmation that Elmore Ave. is indeed on the line of the old tramway. Elmore Ave. marked in red on the old 1912 O.S.map.

Attached picture 2011-05-30 10-18-07_0163.jpg
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 30th May 2011 10:27am
a bit off topic but has anyone know what bunker in bunker hill would be on the map

1.
a. A bin or tank especially for fuel storage, as on a ship.
b. Fuel, such as coal or fuel oil, used especially in ships. Often used in the plural.
2. An underground fortification, often with a concrete projection above ground level for observation or gun emplacements.
3. Sports A sand trap serving as an obstacle on a golf course.
tr.v. bun·kered, bun·ker·ing, bun·kers
1. To store or place (fuel) in a bunker.
2. Sports To hit (a golf ball) into a bunker.

or bunk off school as we used to say

bunk bed
Posted By: Rhoobarb Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 30th May 2011 11:06am
I think the tramway might have gone right through were the house I grew up in is now.
Posted By: chriskay Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 30th May 2011 11:20am
Originally Posted by derekdwc
a bit off topic but has anyone know what bunker in bunker hill would be on the map


Don't know the answer, Derek, but it seems to be a very common name all over the country. I would guess that the derivation is the same for all of them.
Posted By: Rhoobarb Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 30th May 2011 2:45pm
One thing i am wondering (slightly off topic but) when they built the estate, did they get permission to nick some of the public footpath?

If not, who's up for a wander through some houses? grin
Posted By: fender01 Re: Storeton Tramway Relic - 14th Apr 2013 8:11pm
it looks like a mark made in a prison workshop. You can see these sometimes on old kerbstones,that were made in UK prisons. Interesting tho'.
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