Thats where I thought too, and it could be right:



Does anyone agree?

yeh i do

not too sure... some things look right then loads of others dont - and altho it was that long ago, very little similarities in the buildings if that makes sense?

Its a close call.
Question is did the Trams ever run along that road,
if they did i hope and pray they had good brakes
as its down hill all the way from there.

not too bad if they headed along towards birkenhead (charing cross direction)

I suppose if they can go up and down in San Francisco then
Birkenhead should handle some of the bumps lol

Maybe someone could go to the tram museum in Taylor St. & see if they know whether trams ran along Church Rd. There's got to be archives somewhere. Can't see anything in the modern picture which definitely ties up, but there's a sort of general similarity.

The black and white picture looks like its from the top where that yellow car is.. I dunno cause it looks like its looking up church road and down towards Birkenhead.....

I've just been on the phone to Wirral archives, in the old Town Hall & they seem to have lots of stuff about the tram system in Birkenhead. I'm coming up on Friday for the Xmas market so I'll pop in & have a look at what they've got. I want to know if the trams on Church Rd. went down Whetstone Lane or maybe Holt Hill.

Cheers, Chris.

Sounds good Chris, keep us informed

oooo cool

I was told about the archives the other day, never been
but i think it would be a real Aladins cave for me lol

Just for your info; phone 0151 666 3903. Only open Thurs & Fri, 10 till 5, closed 1-1.30 I've been several times & always found them helpful.

Cheers, Chris.

Cheers Chris

Can you sneak a mobile in and take pics ??
Or can you get stuff printed off ?

No need to sneak; they allow you to photograph documents, but you usually have to sign a copyright form to say you won't publish them. They will also do copies for you.

Is it on Hamilton square?
I'm Busy this Friday or i would have come along for a ganded chris.

I guess you will find a lot more stuff too

Yes, it's in the Wirral Museum (used to be the Town Hall). Lots of interesting stuff in the museum, especially about Cammell Laird's.
Pity you can't come on Friday.

For anyone wanting to use the Archives; it's a good idea to phone first & tell them what you're looking for. Lots of stuff is kept at other sites & has to be brought in.

Thanks for that chris its big help..

Yeh shame as you could have been my guide

OK, I spent about 3 hours in the archives today. The staff were very helpful & produced lots of stuff relating to the tram system. I then went to the tram museum in Taylor St. The general opinion is that the first (old) & second (modern) pics in this thread are of the same view, taken from near Seymour St. & looking towards Holt Hill. For the moment, I'm just going to post what I found out about the Church Rd. route. This ran from Woodside, up Argyle St. South, along Church Rd. & finished on Bebington Rd., near The Towers in Victoria Park. It was a mixture of single & double track along Church Rd. (see plan). It's a pity that the plan doesn't show side roads, but the original pic. is on one of the single track sections. Interesting to read the article from Birkenhead Electric Tramways 1901-1937 by Charles Rycroft, explaining how the trams couldn't get up the top part of Argyle St. South & the new bit of road, Pearson Rd., was built. On the plan of the route, the section in red was a proposed extension as far as Town Lane but it was never built.

Later, I'll write more about the other routes; there were only 6 altogether.

Cheers, Chris.

Intresting chris I know of a video of the Birkenhead Tramways ive yet to copy it to a file as the video is VHS and i cant find it on DVD but as soon as ive done that i will get it up Its very intresting believe you me...

Look forward to seeing that, Lee.

Wow excellent Chris

I'm a bit suprised at how basic the maps are, i thought
they would have been mixed with "Roads"

Excellent chris i look forward to the next addition

cool x

A bit more info. about the tram system. the attached main map is dated 1926 & the tram routes are in black.
All the routes started from Woodside & apart from the dock route, they all seem to have used Hamilton St. outbound & Argyle St. inbound.
The top route on the map was to serve the docks. It ran along Cleveland St. & Beaufort Rd. as far as Wallasey Bridge Rd.
Another route ran along New Chester Rd. as far as Bebington Rd. in New Ferry.
The Church Rd. route has already been described.
A route ran along Borough Rd. as far as Prenton Rd. West, then along that Road. as far as Storeton Rd.
The last route was a circular one, (later replaced by buses; No.6 clockwise & No.2 anti-clockwise). As far as I can tell, it ran: Hamilton St., Claughton Rd., Whetstone Lane, Borough Rd., Balls Rd. East, Balls Rd., Shrewsbury Rd., Park Rd. North, Conway St., Argyle St & back to Woodside. This was the clockwise direction. If it did run anti-clockwise as well, it didn't go up Whetstone Lane, but straight down to Central Station & then Argyle St. (I'm taking this info. from the track map). This route passed the tram depot at the junction of Laird St. & Mallaby St. (It's shown as a black square on the map).
Also shown on the track map, but not on the main map, is a route along Claughton Rd. & Park Rd. South. Unfortunately I didn't get the date of the track map, so I don't know whether it's earlier or later than the main map.

My thanks to Wirral Archives for finding these maps for me.

Hope this is of interest.

Very interesting Chris.

Great stuff Chris.
I was told the other day that the Bus Depot on Laird Street
now the Bus Depot (Arriva) Was a Tram Depot too?
That's what i was told, on your map chris you have a black
square where i was told it is.

I haven't been there for many years; didn't know it was still in use. Next time I'm up, I'll have a look. I've also got a memory that on Laird St., on the opposite side to the tram depot, there was a firm which made the bus & tram tickets. I think it had a sign in the brick/stone work which may still be there. Perhaps someone could have a look & report back.

Cheers, Chris.

Yep the Arriva station on Laird Street was tram depot a big one at that as it housed the Tramway Offices . The Co-Op store where i work next to it has been there even in 1900s it was there when trams where running up and down laird street. You can still some part of the track in the floor by the Bus Shelter uptowards the co-op.. Like i said in another post i do have a video which im in the process of digitising (ripping) to put on youtube but i havnt got time untill new year so i apologise to you chris..

No worries, Lee; do it when you have time. Since you work there, perhaps you could have a look in Laird St. for the ticket factory. I used to know the name of the firm, but I can't remember it now.

The ticket factory used to be the Old Serve Wirral training base which has been demolished.. Theres flats currently in the progress of being built there..

Oh, thanks, Lee. Do you happen to remember the name?

The ticket printers opposite the tram/bus depot in Laird Street was Auto Tickets Ltd. Also remember it being called Victory Kidder. Not too sure which came first. Being a collector of ticket machines and bus/tram tickets (B'head & L'pool mainly), most of the "Bell Punch" type tickets used by B'head Corporation Transport had "Auto Tickets Ltd" on the bottom of most values.

Sorry, wandering off topic again. Maybe start another thread on old B'head ticket stuff sometime if anyone's interested. They used to have a limited display of tickets/machines down at the Bus Museum, Taylor St.

Used to be a driver at Arriva Depot, Laird St. Before this new depot, the old one was basically the original tram depot, huge inside, covering almost the entire area of the new bus park!
Osed to see all the exposed tracks inside when the modern concrete floor used to lift! At that time ,the present offices used to be a homeless drop in centre, saw some sights in the depot then!!
Rumour has it that when building this new depot, the demolition guys uncovered some underground bunkers/shelters! Any more info on this?? Could be your missing link between Tranmere and Bidston!!!! Ha Ha!!

That has triggered a memory; "Automaticket". Does that ring any bells? I remember (as I expect you do) when the tickets of different values were carried in a long wooden holder with spring clips & punched with a machine which rang a bell when operated (Bell Punch Company)?

I'm pretty certain the name "Automaticket" was the name on the ticket machines in the cinemas.

Wouldnt be surprised really.. The old offices which used to be where the New social club is know that had a cellar and an old Air Raid shelter beneath.. The Main building on laird street the which are know the Offices the old Tramway offices that has a basement with a Air Raid shelter. The Co-Op store which is next to the bus station that has a Huge Cellar which has an Air Raid shelter... The huge feild which use to be The Gas Works has a huge air raid shelter right at the back theres a huge hole which drops down.. So theres quite few shelters around there.. Id love to get into the one where the old gas works is as it looks massive... But because theres no way of access we'd need a good set of ladders and some rope others wise we'll be stuck down there heh!.. I can take a couple of photos of the Air Raid shelter at work tonight to get the idea of how big it is...

Where was gas works soundlad? Would be fascinated in seeing some pics of air raid shelters I dont think I have ever seen one on the Wirral.

Right heres a few picture some of you will Appriciate

Remember i told you about the Gas works behind Laird Street Tram Depot (know the bus depot) ? Also a picture of a tram going up Pearson Road also a Picture of Laird Street Depot Team and the band.. Didnt even now they had one

Got more pictures to come i will add them over the week as theres quite a few to be rescanned as there not very good..

Regards Lee...

Yeah, deffo some interesting photos there matey, cheers for posting them!

great pictures mate.

thanks for posting

Thanks for the pics., Lee.

Yeh Amazing Lee Thanks for Sharing / posting

I don't know if i can remember the gas works or not

Here are a few more Pictures of The tramway in action... there are more pictures to come... The scans come from a Book called Birkenhead Electric Tramways.. By Charles Rycroft.. Very intresting read

Two more.. There is a couple more to scan as they didnt come out right soon as ive done em i'll post em

Quality photo's there Lee fella

No probs its all about the history hehe

Great stuff Lee. Thanks for finding them.

Quality photos lad. Notice in the first picture how busy the Mersey is!
I'm pretty sure the Shrewbury Road picture shows my friends house. I don't think he knows trams used to run outside his house lol.

WOW Amazing Lee...
It is truly a different world (Full Stop).

Thanks for the time and effort lee appreciated

As i said to a friend. The wirral was once a nice place with the photos ive saw and films ive watched. But its know a paracite land. If the children of today saw how the Wirral was and Birkenhead was they would realise this was a paradise (well not a paradise as we know) what i mean is if we had the trams and new brighton this place will be buzzing.. Yes the wirral has hosted a few things i.e. The Open, wirral show etc which is no big deal as it was just Money for the council at the end of the day (talkin bout the open).. No wonder we pay so much council tax.. I also mentioned on how the council have treated this Part of our world knocking things down just to goto waste for example the Ritzy Theatre (the old mecca bingo hall) look at that area WASTE LAND what do the council think of this area just because theres some unlawfully idiots we have to make this place look like the slum... Any how this place was nice in its hay day thats why people should be reminded of what this place used to be like its going down nick and people should be greatful cause that building they saw that lovely garden they spent there child hood will probly be houses in the next couple of years.. As i said to my mate (who aggreed) if this place was kept how it used to be and punish idiots who try to wreck it.. Look at Birkenhead Park for instance the Swiss Bridgeis open again But how long for??? (do you get what im sayin ?) Sorry but i just had to get that out cause its how i feel about this place.. As much as its a Shit hole know a days it'l still have that special part as look how it used to be cause thats how i want to remember it from photos, film etc cause this place was buzzing

P.S. apologise if that bored yer

couldn't agree more

wow them pictures are great lee.

thanks for the time and effort. much appreciated

some good pics there

My great grandad who served for the Birkenhead corporation for 50 years, starting on horse drawn trams and then onto electric trams. Also pictured in another photo (Mallaby street junction)part of my nan's collection. Will try and get my scanner working but for now using my camera phone.
Was going to put the photos up in the 'Pictures' topic but as I'm using the net off my phone hooked up to my p.c, having loads of trouble using the file manager sorry. But if anyone wants to move them to the appropiate place go ahead.




Some other photos of a picture lying around in my parents, looks similar if not the same as another one posted up in the 'Pictures' section. More old photographs of wirral to come but will take time due to my sloppy internet connection.

Wow Thanks for sharing the Pictures Merseyman.

If you still have any problems, send me or joe a pm and we
can try and help you with your pictures


So that's your Great Granddad on the Front there ?

Aye yes, born 1882 I think, only time he wasnt driving trams was during the first world war. Died in the 50's still have the original newspaper cutting reporting his death, as 50 years of service was qyuite a big thing those days, have badges too for things like 5 years clean record (but I think they were for my great uncle) Have a hell of a lot of stuff to be photograped ranging from WW1 pre-going to war photographs of a lot of relatives. They had a house in Moreton called Felicity cottage where my great great grand parents lived, these photos have been used in other publications, but it's always good to have the original My uncle also was the driver who drove the first train through the liverpool loop line to test the track alignment, also got the newspaper cutting of that so will put it on...any local stuff is better than nothing.

Great stuff

Looking forward to seeing that newspaper cutting

Excellent a real local hero

Thanks for sharing too.

I have thouroughly enjoyed looking at all this so far, so pleased i found this site, keep up the good work. A question for Mark the forum God tho, would it be possible to place all the stuff with regards to transport in one complete topic, its all gone a bit mad since pictures of trams and buses and stuff has been put here!!

We can try and add "Cross Links" to topics of relevance.
You just dont know how these topics pan out when we start.
But there will come a Tidy up point I guess

Jesus, I keep bringing up old links
Click Click

"The first street trams in Britain were built in 1860 in Birkenhead by the eccentric American entrepreneur George Train, who later introduced street trams to London"

George Francis Train was quite a character and a genius at promoting himself and his schemes.

It's mentioned on an earlier thread how he threw a huge banquet in a warehouse near Birkenhead docks to mark the opening of the tramway, inviting everyone from the Pope to Garibaldi.

He later compiled a booklet of Press reports about the event, snappily entitled Report of the Banquet Given by George Francis Train Esq of Boston US to Inaugurate the Opening of the First Street Railway in Europe at Birkenhead, August 30 1860.

You can still buy this on Amazon.

There is also a very interesting and entertaining biography of Train called Around the World with Citizen Train: The Sensational Adventures of the Real Phileas Fogg, by Allen Foster - again available on Amazon.

I know the thread was started 7 years ago but the original pic in the first post is not where the poster thought it was, it's at the other end of Church Rd in what is now called bebington road but was then called Church Lane, and the buildings on the left used to be in Victoria Park, the shops on the right are still there.

Very interesting, you seem quite certain so I suppose you have found some evidence. It makes sense when you read the last paragraph of the attached extract from "Birkenhead Electric Tramways, 1901-1937" by Charles Rycroft. I guess those buildings were where the bowling greens are now. The O.S. map of 1912 shows the exact location of the tram terminus.

specialboy is quite right, the photo does show the tram terminus at the start of Bebington Road with Victoria Park on the right. The 1899 OS map below shows the area in question before the shops on the right hand side of the road had been built. The buildings on the left were demolished at some point before 1909 when plans were drawn up to widen the road.

Thanks for the confirmation & map, marty99fred.

The building opposite the bus depot in Laird St on the corner of Mallaby St.,was the Autoticket Company, which was taken over by the Anglo Numerator Company which still made the ticket machines but I don't know who made the tickets, they operated under the management of Victory-Kidder Printing Machine Company, when VK moved to Arrowe park in the early 70s, a few firms moved in, the last one I remember was called Liverpool Precision Engineering, The VK name was cast in stone high up on the wall, if I'd known they were going to demolish the building I'd have tried to save the stone, I served my time there and stayed for 16 years