Trinity Mirror send out letters to some employees (delivery people) saying they will be self employed in 10 days time. Loss of holiday pay etc etc. Cost cutting exercise at the expense of the workers.

Speak to HMRC, they will tell them that regular deliverers are not self-employed - HMRC don't like companies trying to offload their tax and other responsibilities.

What is more worrying is that you need insurance if Trinity aren't providing it.

Since Thatcher crippled the unions, we are seeing more and more of this sort of thing.

Wirral news is full of ads and crap anyway. Not worth reading. It goes straight into the bin in our house.

This is the new order folks, the Tories have beem given carte blanche to do as they please, they tell tell us this is what "we" voted for, vicious nasty vindictive people they have peddled their lies about the economy that austerity is the only answer, the human rights act is a double edged sword it was put into place to protect us, but was hijacked by those using it for their own ends, but should it be taken away the most vunerable will be the ones who suffer, vindictive anti trade union laws, pay to seek justice at an industrial tribunal,five year rental agreements on council houses,you will have fracking, the ordinary person has been well stitched up, Sports Direct has been at it with their workforce, as I said little or no opposition, no doubt should any action be taken that will affect the Tory juggernaut those that participate will become the infamous "enemy within" stopping the "decent" people of Britain from earning a living

Poundland no better either. My niece was given a job and trained up with them . soon as she got to the age they have to pay the higher minimum wage its goodbye and they take on another load of 16 year olds.

Its creeping in, soon it will be like the good ole USA people will need 2 or 3 jobs to pay their way, I understand the need to get people off benefits, however instead of a system that deals with the abusers they have inserted a one system suits all, I know of two people recently made redundant one late fifties the other just turned sixty, they have worked all their lives but now find themselves classed as benefit scroungers through no fault of their own, very unlikely to find another job they will be punished and hounded by the system, the real scroungers will still be getting their benefits, because they know the system works for them, newly unemployed will be pushed to take any job offered because they have the work ethic, whilst the idle will be left alone because they really dont want to work, and the job centre must show they are putting people into work, its the same as the tax people they will chase someone for £200 but will leave those that owe £50,000 because they have a better success rate and more cases dealt with, you only have to look at the so called celebrities that owe the taxman, yet still manage a good lifestye, put in a nutshell the wrong people are being targeted.

That sounds like some info is missing. Surely there must be a work contract, and if its been changed from providing employment to self employment , the job has effectively been terminated (sacked) , and the employers need to explain why, and would owe redundancy payment ? It might even be unfair dismissal if their reasons arent good enough?

Sorry my comment refers to fish's original post, I forgot to include the quote.

Good point venice, but knowing these "cowboy " firms they have most probably thought it through, they might of had them on short term rolling contracts just avoiding their rights.

Could be as DD says that the firm are just trying it on telling them they are not SE. They need to check their contracts. They wont actually have many rights if they are classed as 'workers' . Trouble is too , even if something turns out to be unfair/construction dismissal , legal costs these days of taking it up are prohibitive and unions no longer have the same membership/ie money to help many out financially .

And how many years were Labour in power to redress the situation, but didn't?

oops , constructive dismissal. Sorry. Bad brain day.

Your post has some validity, however it doesn't change the fact that the Tories have pursued a vicious campaign against Trade Unions whom they see as a threat to their profiteering, it also goes back to the days of everything done to help the disadvantaged on the basis of socialism was rebranded as communism, good Trade Unionists became communist inspired agitators intent on harming the nation the same old Tory strategy divide and conquer, why now the reluctance to release the papers on the so called Shrewsbury six using the guise of national security? my bet it would expose the Tories as they truly are, insidious manipulators of the truth along with the illegal use of the security services, basically State controlled snooping.

When I was working I found the unions a pain in the arris. Always out on strike for spurious reasons, at times it was hard to get a full weeks pay. Other firms were worse. Also had other woes with unions at the time. They were not and are not the panacea for all workers ills. Something had to be done about them. Notice they are now trying to turn Liverpool into a "Superport", it used to be a super port but the unions got that knocked in the head when they wouldn't entertain containers, and what's the "Superport" going to be doing? Containers. I'm glad I'm out of it all.

Sadly there is nothing new about that.Back in the 60s, Woolworths ( and I imagine others) were notorious for employing youngsters on low pay until they were 18 then getting rid.

We haven't had a Labour government since Thatcher, some right-wingers hijacked the name.



The back door method of reducing wages.

Liverpool has been a container port since around 1972, as shipping moved away from general cargo handling, which resulted in the South end docks in Liverpool closing and then Birkenhead docks followed, as you say a lot of union activity was mounted to try and save jobs which is only natural, as the workforce shrunk from in its heyday 14,000 jobs to a few thousand, Liverpool also had to contend with other ports that werent tidal and so more attractive to shippers along with the shift in areas of trade, with unions I suppose there are good and bad from my own point of view they looked after me without them I would have lost my pension and lots of other rights as well, so just speaking as I find.

Have to agree. Many points raised can be thrown back into the wonderful 15yrs of Labour Government.
Schemes that kept the school leavers off the unemployment list.
schemes that paid the employer for 12 months or more if they took someone off the unemployment register. Then the company would have to pay them, schemes that changed and increased the amount of time from one year to two years employment before being classed as permanent staff. Casual work , having to leave a job after three months and then reapply for the job so as not to become permanent. No regular hours. Plus there is nothing wrong with having three jobs to keep the home fires burning, Casper. I had three jobs and didn't once claim benefits. That was is the late 90's and it was an acceptable practice where I was living at the time. Many had more than one job. Not a problem if you were able to work ! Different job, different day ,different place. So what ?

Example: take a school leaver on for paid work experience, get the allowance and then after the incentive expires get rid of that person and get another . Makes sense doesn't it, from the employers and government position ? Keeps the business rolling, keeps the unemployment figures down and keeps the productivity up.

Similar schemes for university graduates. Take on a university graduate without any experience, rather than promoting someone already within the company and get the wages for the first twelve months/two years paid for by the government.

Labour put us into a horrible place with behind the scenes schemes, took in 3 million migrants, told us they would do the jobs we didn't want. We were desperate for jobs. Most full time jobs were re-advertised as part time on minimum wage. Working over a seven day week as the tourist industry and service industry was the direction they took us in. Many, many women had to and still do work weekends now, forgetting the family life we shared . Sitting around the table together as a family on a Sunday, is a distant memory for many.
Many kids bored and unsupervised at weekends due to lack of parental presence.
Labour destroyed our way of life and although things aren't much better now, please admit to the so many wrongs that they were responsible for , the things that saw the Tory party voted in , in 2010.
You might not like Cameron, but I hated Blair and his cronies! He destroyed this country.

I didn't imply there was anything wrong with working at three jobs granny, many people have to, my point was it is becoming the norm and of course their are many that would find it impossible because of family commitments, and one person doing three jobs is taking a job off someone with no job at all, and as dd stated we didn't have a Labour party under Blair they just hijacked the name, no sorry I stand corrected it became New Labour.

They changed the name because Old Labour was totally discredited and unelectable, just like Corbyn's lot.

How could Old Labour be discredited? They never had a clear majority in government. The last time Labour had a clear majority was before WW2 I think?

Why should a party require a majority in order to be discredited? It's the fact that they are discredited which causes them to not have a majority.

Because you can only discredit something that's happened, any other discreditation is just smoke and mirrors.

Saying that, my definition of discredit seems adrift from the dictionary, I thought it had to be factual.

Lets face it all political parties dont do what we require of them, as to Corbyn he is offering something that is on everyones wish list a goverernment that listens, time and time again we see corruption, theft and lies on all sides and it continues, after half hearted promises and attempts at control.

In fact Corbyn is being ridiculed for his lack of being a dictator.

No Corbyn being ridiculed is because he is ridiculous . Don't care what you say about appearance not mattering. It does. Saw him on tv the other day riding his bike , looked like a tramp. Other countries must be laughing their socks off when they see him. Still say he lives in la la land. Sorry don't think he's any kind of leader .

Perhaps Corbyn will put things right when he gets elected?

Parties in opposition or a position of forlorn hope always offer what the electorate want. Some Labour Party supporters act like born again Christians as if the past never happened and those Tories (Blair Prescott and Maxwell) to name a few were ever a part of "US" Almost everything Prescott touched turned to manure Brown manure.I could go on.Take ownership of past mistakes or we don't have a future.I daubt there is such a status as "lack of being a dictator"."A socialist is", no political party needed, go forward and practice it and we will live in a better place.

So, when you discovered that your definition of discredit was wrong, why didn't you just delete the first paragraph?
Oh, Attlee's 1945 government had a huge majority (referring to your previous post).

I think "smoke & mirrors" is a pretty good description of Corbyn's policies: it doesn't matter what fine ideas you have, they still have to be paid for.

The current government has spent a lot less and borrowed a lot more - where is the money disappearing?

I left the paragraph stand as it emphasises that being discredited means absolutely nothing, it can be factual or lies.

One might ask what fine ideas the Tories have had? I mean we are paying now and what have we had? we have borrowed more, we are in more debt and have had years of so called austerity, what little we bit of industry we have left is being eroded or sold on a weekly basis, Dave is in the throes of giving the fracking companies carte blanche to ruin the countryside the only thing left about Britain is the name, every Chow, Abdulla or Ivan, not forgetting Pierre and Hans own the infastructure.

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