Hi All

Heard a few whispers that the Yates Castle Brewery records where held in Manchester after John Smiths took them over.

However, did some digging and saw that some records are held at the central library in Liverpool

Has anybody seen the records and maybe know of more extensive records and photographs perhaps?

trying to find out some information about an old pub owned by the brewery, then owned by John Smiths and finally taken over by Cains

I know that there were records in Manchester and John Smiths HQ in Tascaster, but I am not sure what records are kept in each!?!?!

This book may be of interest
click

The records held at Liverpool (as M380 YCB/1-7) consist principally of a few early cash books, day books and accounts belonging to Richard and James Yates, the founders of the brewery, and Joseph B Yates, covering from 1831-1868. There's also a batch of about 60 bills, invoices and letters relating to pubs in Birkenhead between 1888-1924, but not much else.

I believe there are some records held in Manchester and Tadcaster but im not sure what information they have over and above what is in Liverpool.

In short the pub I am trying to find information on is over 150 years old and I have never been able to find one single photograph of it other than a small image when cains took it over in the 90's.

What probably doesnt help is that it has changed names a few times but even so a pub of that age should have some sort of photography!

I have purchased the book recommended by Derek and I will see if there is anything in there.

Benny,

If you disclose the name and location of the pub, you might get lucky, someone may be able to help.


If its 150 years old, Derek probably had his first drink in it.

HI Bert

Its the Old Colonial, formerly the Grapes Hotel/Inn

I did a full research project on it a few years back and its the 2nd most viewed pub on Wiki Wirral and I have tried so hard to get a picture!!!!!!

is this the one bennyboy??

any help??

Benny

Not sure what information you need from 150 years ago,

Grapes Inn, Bridge St

Thomas Jones was the landlord early 1840s, mentioned in the Liverpool Mercury 1842 and listed in a 1843 directory. Margaret Jones, 1861 directory.

Grapes Hotel(from BOUMPHREY book 1)`

William Oliver Gray 1880 - August 1881
William Oliver Grey 1881-1882
Thomas Jones 1882-1883
Thomas Jones 1883-1884
Thomas Jones 1884-1885
Thomas Jones 1885-1886
Thomas Jones 1886-1887
Harry Newall 1887-1888
John Allison 1892-1895
John Allison 1896-1900
John Allison 1901-1903
John Allison 1904-1909
John Allison 1910-19
William Woodcock 1920-1930
James Jones 1931 - 1941
Lawrence McCarthy 1942 - 1952
Lawrence McCartney 1953 - 1963
Lawrence McCarthy 1964-1975

Sorry BennyBoy didn't see your post about buying the book

Don't know if this will help
Going into the archives don't know if you noticed the 1857 map on the wall
I think they have 80 maps same year series of Birkenhead which may have the shape of the pub on one

This is from book 2
Previous list from archives pub licences

Off pdf of Birkenhead Reference library photo index click


BC VI 211/76 Grapes Hotel
BPL 2765 Grapes Hotel, Liverpool
C3394 The old Colonial public house, Bridge street, Birkenhead 1989.

Hi Derek

We own the Old Colonial

Iv bought the first book but I couldnt find anything on the Grapes Hotel at all?

The second book I cant find anywhere it doesnt seem for sale.

The Yates castle brewery records show it owned the pub but I cant find any pictures etc.

It actually appears rather briefly in the film 'Ferry Cross the Mersey'. Looked a bit smaller then, but you can see its Bridge Street with what is now the Transport Museum in Taylor Street behind it.
The screenshots don't improve if you try to look closer. The scene was towards the end of the film when the band were supposed to be dashing to the Airport to get their equipment, while being chased by the police through the docks by the Keystone Cops.

Not marvelous I know, but at least a scene from the early 60's.

I bought it from Waterstones - no pic in it just the info I posted

I'll wait until it becomes available again or go to water stones

Thanks for this Derek

Still can't believe that I can't find one single picture of the place in any records!!

Driving me insane

You haven't got a link to the film have you Derek?

Hi BennyBoy, it was me that put the film clips on.

Having said that, derekdwc and I have been confused for each other before, but we don't mind, we're confused enough anyway.

I got my copy off eBay.

pm me if you need to, before we get too far off topic..

If there is anything you can get for me, picture wise I would really appreciate it.

I cant find anything picture wise with the Yates Castle Brewery.

Even when it was Cains there arent many pictures.

Pre Yates I doubt there will be pictures but one can hope!

What sort of date are you looking at for a picture?
I think photography by the general public didn't really take off until the later parts of the 1800's.
My suggestions for The Grapes are
1 the Birkenhead library
2 Try looking on the Britain from Above site for pic of same area and zoom in on it - press print screen and paste in an image program then possible enlarge

done this pic by no2

He Derek

Iv been to birkenhead library but not seen anything yet?

I was just suprised because I was unable to find anything on the pub through all of the Yates records and everything since.

There just seems to be pictures all around Birkenhead in its hey day but they seem to have forgotton the little old grapes hotel!