On this forum we seem to have experts in just about every area. Do we have any street furniture experts? Specifically - concrete lamp posts?
I am trying to date a photograph taken in Wallasey Village. The clue MAY be in the type of lamp post ie concrete with a significant arched top to hold tha lamp from the post and with what looks like a doubled-up casting where the arched part meets the post.
I have spent a couple of hours this afternoon web-searching the sites of the (amazingly many) folk who seem to collect lamps (makes stamp collecting seem mundane!) or just photos. Most deal with the lamp heads rather than the lamp posts.
The nearest example to the one in the pic I am trying to date is a Concrete Utilities Avenue 3D Arc 2, which was introduced in 1940.
I will be grateful for info from anyone who knows about such things, and will send them a copy of the pic I am trying to date.
Snod
If you look on a photo site called FlickR and search for a lady called :
claire pendrous, I think her name is, she collects and photographs said streetlamps.
There is also a local person that knows about such but I cant remember how I found it, I cant remember if that was a Fotopic site I saw or another FlickR one
Have a look at a site called : inacityliving, there maybe a link from there.
If I find it I will post details
Looks to me like a 1960's one that had the yellow/orange sodium type light fitted and has been modidied
I think the clue to finding the date for this photograph is the car.....in the picture..
Folks
You misunderstand.
The pic of the lamp post I give above is just and EXAMPLE of what I think is the type of concrete lamp post in another photo that I have. THAT photo is not very good quality and it is difficult to make out detail of the lamp post - - - so I found a pic of similar one from elsewhere on the web.
The actual photo I am trying to date is below. The lamp post is seen against the gable wall of the shop in the right
Snod
Snod,
There's similar lamp post just near where I grew up (that is, 32 WV) and I am pretty sure that I just about remember when there used to be a gas lamp there, before, with the dangling loops the lamplighter operated by a pole? I was born in 1952 and I must have been pretty small when they took away the gas lamps and put in those concrete / electric lamps in their place... I'd only be guessing I admit, but I suspect your pic could be maybe around 1956?
I'd be interested too, if you manage to get a firm date for it!
OK Snod, here's my 2d's worth. Just observations though..
I think this style began either during or immediately post war, and it is easy enough to show that they were in use when the new Queen visited these parts in 1952/53. They would have almost certainly had a clear glass luminere (lamp shade) shaped like a jelly mould, surrounding a high capacity bulb. Due to their height, I guess they would have been used to replace the dual-purpose poles that had also carried the overhead wiring for the tram network.
I think the change to the yellow lighting, by using low pressure sodium tubes, could have only taken place after the local electricity had been converted to ac, as they use a transformer and ballast. They tended to be quite low power, something like 50W or 75W, and the tubes were/are only 8-10-12 inches long, depending on power. Naturally, a tungsten lamp would fine on either ac or dc.
The earlier versions of these lamp-posts used a slightly larger agregate in their concrete, so look to have a slightly rougher surface. The next design, although very similar, had a slightly smoother finish and was not quite so thick at the base. Installation of that type probably began in the late 50's.
They slimmed down again for the 60's and the slimmest and smoothest ones seem to be from the 70's - after which most lamp standards installed around here were steel ones. If you cast you mind back to when major roadworks took place, just picture the style that was used at the time.
During their life, the top arm got thinner in design, but was eventually replaced by a slip-on version, made of steel. This gave the lamp greater hight and reach as bulb technology led to a greater light output.
The low pressure sodium lights occupy a very narrow band of light in the visible light spectrum, and so are more accepted by astronomers, as they can 'tune out' the unwanted light. High pressure soduim lights use a greater bandwith of light, so some objects are easier to see in colour at night. The majority of white lights began being used where there are high definition security cameras in use, so that operators could give a better description of the colours of vehicles or clothes.
The driver now is to cut engergy costs and reduce light polution by getting more light on the ground and less into the atmosphere. To this end, a number of intelligent lighting schemes are being tried throught the UK, including Wirral. Look out for the ones with a little antenna on top. They are usually on the 'Cobra Head' design lamps. (As in the shape of a snakes' head.)
And having said all that, it's surprising just how many lamps still stand in exactly the same place, having originally been the location of a gas lamp, then a tram pole etc.
To date your picture, I think you are looking to sometime after this part of Wallasey converted to an ac mains supply.
Please don't take this as a definitive answer, it's just my observations and memory. If anybody can confirm any of this, or fill in on more information, then Snodvan and myself would like to know.
Ah! the 2d has run out. I should have put two bob in the meter..
going by the photo colour i would say 1940`s
CV
32 WV. That is the second house from the end at the back of the library. Hummmm
When did you leave the Village?
I ask because what I am really trying to do is date
a. When the Websters building (tripple fronted house on right of the pic) was demolished
(Yes, it was bombed in the war but some say it MAY have been rebuilt)
b. Whether that demolition was just to make way for Kwiksave
c. If so when did Kwiksave come to the Village
d. When did they rebuild the THIRD shop at the top of Stonehouse
(There were 3 shops ie bay windows, in that block prewar, are only 2 in the photo and there are now 3 again - the third one being of much newer brick)
Snod
I left WV in 1973. I do remember the 3 houses being demolished and I think they must have built Kwik Save Discount right after, as I don't remember there being an empty space there for any great length of time. I think it was in the mid 60s but I don't know exactly what year, best guess would be '65 or 66.
I'm not sure exactly when they built the 3rd shop where Porky's Pantry is now, but for some reason I have the impression it was a little later than Kwik Save (I'm not sure why I think that, though!)
Sorry it wasn't 3 houses, was it? It looks like 3 in the pic but I think it was actually two houses (83 and 85?)
PaulWirral's HistoryofWallasey site Wallasey Village Shopping page has some old Directories of Wallasey Village and in the 1966 one (right at he bottom of the page), 83 / 85 WV are no longer listed... there is nothing at all between 75 (Scrugham's) and 95 (Celia Manley) so I am thinking that my guess of 1965/66 for the demolition of the houses and 1966 or '67 for building of Kwik Save might be close...?
It does look like the Webster's place "went" some time between 55 and 66. There will have been a vacant site for a while I suppose, although maybe not for long.
I will see what/ if the web contact I have made comes up with a date for a Village Kwiks. In her own web pages she indicates that he parents had a small grocer shop in Wallasey (area not defined) but that in 1971 a Kwiks opend and their trade declined such that her parents moved to Runcorn. I think the Kwiks in the Village was the only one in Wallasey around that time. I will wait for her reply.
Snod
CV
This is my scan of part of a big scale O/S map of the Village. Date is around 1960. Unfortunately although I have a full scan of the map I cannot find the actual paper copy !!! to get the print date reference. However, I know it was about 1960.
On this map you can see the numbers for the 2 shops (chippie and Scrughams) at the top of Stonehouse - but no number for the third shop. Websters buildings are shown / numbered
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/village50s.jpg/This is a big image file ie 1.4 meg
Snod
Here are 2 pics taken on leasowe road during the Wallasey approach road construction and also the railway bridge construction (1968 i think). The Lamposts are the same but your photo looks alot older.
Good call with the pics of the bridge rebuild. That was in late 1964, possibly early 65. Shows the lamp post style very well and that style is undoubtedly the same as up by Kwiks/ Websters.
Snod
Snod, the Directory of WV 1938 on Paul's HistoryofWallasey site (Shopping in Wallasey Village page, scroll way down) shows Scrugham's being the third shop in the block, at number 81...!