I thought it might be interesting to find the reason behind the name of Whetstone Lane. I would have thought there would have been a link to a particular industry in the area but I don't really know. Neither would I know how long ago it may have been. Anyone got any ideas?

Below is the definition of 'whetstone' found on wikipedia.

Sharpening stones, water stones or whetstones are used to grind and hone the edges of steel tools and implements. Examples of items that may be sharpened with a sharpening stone include scissors, scythes, knives, razors and tools such as chisels, hand scrapers and plane blades. Though it is sometimes mistaken as a reference to the water often used to lubricate such stones, the word "whetstone" is a compound word formed with the word "whet," which means to sharpen a blade, not the word "wet". The process of using a sharpening stone is called stoning.

Not sure on this but it could be to do with the river crossing that would have been between the part of the road leading up to Charing Cross and the road leading up the hill opposite (Whetstone Lane). As has been mentioned on this site, a small river ran down the approximate route of Borough Road to the large pool around where the Birkenhead Central area is, so a river crossing would have been where the Borough Rd/Whetstone Ln junction is now.
If it was a shallow crossing or ford of some kind, it may have originated as "wet stone lane". Just a thought.
Any experts out there know the real historic reason for the name?

Perhaps because its Whet and not Wet its referring to the erosion of the stone the water ran down towards the river, Whetstone, meaning a grinding action on the sandstone.

I'll get my coat.

It's a shame there is no pictorial evidence of what this river looked like before it all changed. It's just so hard to imagine what the place would have looked like when all you have known is whats there now.

There was a field named Whetstone Meadow (known to exist at least as early as the 1820's). It was situated between Cook St, and Whetstone Lane.

Perhaps the field-name came first?

Considering the number of 'quarry' names in that same area, then perhaps the Whetstone Meadow site was associated the quarrying activity??

Did we quarry "Whetstones" for industrial/ commercial use?

...no idea bert. I just thought that there may have been a link with the Whetstone Meadow site and the quarrying activity which appears to have gone along the Happy Valley.

Seems to me that the combination of a water source ('The Rubicon'), quarrying, and whetstones might be more than just coincidence.

Wouldn't the quarry workers require whetstones to sharpen their own stone cutting equipment?

In his authoritative book Sidelights on Tranmere, author J E Allison mentions the 'wet' stone idea, but does not expand on it. He says:

'Linking the east and west side of Whetstone (should it not be Wet Stone?) Lane was a string of stepping stones, upstream of which, according to tradition, there grew the best watercress in Wirral.'

Elsewhere, he says:

'The old way from Woodside to Chester was directed along Grange Lane, on its low ridge above the Happy Valley, as far as Whetstone Lane. There was then a short descent to the ford (or stepping stones over the stream) before the half mile climb to the top.'

Grange lane being later renamed to Grange Road

Whet shouldn't be confused with wet, Whetstone as we all know is used for sharpening tools and I suppose other uses if we research it, wet, as in water is only the required lubricant or oil can be used.
The Quarry workers may well have had Whetstones, but I would think their tools would require a more abrasive grindstone, perhaps trying to find out what was quarried would lead us in the right direction. Anyone know?

Allison's book says there were once seven quarries in Tranmere township, one being in Quarry Bank, off Whetstone Lane.

They quarried Triassic sandstone to use as building material.

Definitely wouldn't have used sandstone, to soft for Whetstones.

That's what I thought, but a quick google shows elsewise much to my surprise!

If you look at the Electoral Ward Boundary on a large scale map, you will see that it mianders around the centre of Borough Road, rather like a stream - which is probably what it originally followed i.e. a natural boundary.
Another thought is that it could have been named after someone called 'Whetstone'. I'm thinking here in electrical theory terms of something called a Whetstone Bridge, named after its inventor.

Electrical is a Wheatstone bridge after Charles Wheatstone who used it but didn't invent it (that was Christie).

Whet and wet are two completely different words, to whet means to sharpen.

Derek put some photo's on wiki today, one of which show's the area in question.

https://www.wikiwirral.co.uk/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/645574/some_pics_at_the_archives.html

Agreed. Comment was only to illustrate a point in nameing, from derivation through to corruption of words over time as spelling and pronounciation become blurred. Whet and Wet both sound the same. Perhaps I should have said something like 'Taylor' or 'Butcher' which could also indicate the trade or activity carrried out, or the surname of the person who it was named after, who would have probably derived his surname name in a similar manner sometime in the past.

My reference to the earliest known use of the 'Whetstone' name in Birkenhead is taken from Dodgson's study of the 'Place-names of Cheshire' and he seldom gets things wrong.

The Whetstone Meadow name dates back at least to 1824, and Dodgson makes no suggestion of the name ever having been corrupted or taken from that of a person.

For what it is worth there are Whetstones in other parts of the country, Cambridge, Midlands, Tottenham . Some suggestions that it could have been originally West Town.

...if that were the case here, you'd expect Whetstone Lane to be located on the west side of Birkenhead.

I suppose it could be considered to be west of Birkenhead Priory, but I doubt very much if this is where the name comes from.

Interesting that the tithe maps of 1836–51 show that at that time the quarry was not on Quarry Bank but was between Zetland Rd. and Borough Rd. and was quite small. Maybe it did produce stone for use as whetstones; it doesn't look big enough to be producing much building stone.
I remember at school, in the woodworking shop, we had a big water-lubricated sandstone whetstone wheel.

Makes sense to me a quarry of Whetstone but not to sure what material they would be quarrying, a sandstone Whetstone wouldn't last 5 minutes and who would purchase when much harder wearing Whetstones were available.

Maybe it depends on how far back we are talking. If the Whetstone site pre-dates the 1820's and the development of Birkenead docks etc, then maybe it was far easier to make use of locally sourced materials.

For what it's worth. Old English for 'whetston(e) used to be 'hwestan'. This would indicate the name has been around a long time. Maybe it was connected to the Priory.

From what I can recall I think a lot of the terraced houses in the Grange Road area had a back door step in the backyard that was used to sharpen knives etc. Not sure if it was sandstone

They were sandstone steps, also window sills etc and have seen grooves in many where that practice was carried out. I wouldn't say you can't edge a blade with sandstone, I know you can, just wouldn't last very long and I'm sure far better wearing materials were available even back then. If needs must and they had nothing else fair enough, but I could carve my name in sandstone far to easy when I was nowt but a lad.

The conditions existing during the Glacial period : with an account of the glacial deposits in the valley between Tranmere and Oxton (1878)
download pdf

http://www.archive.org/details/conditionsexisti00rick

There was once a pub called the Happy Vally ( There a picture on this site somewhere ) which stood on the oppsite side to birkenhead libary So maybe this give us some idea that there was a vally on borough road.

Used to be a very nice painting of the "Happy Valley" in the Williamson Art Gallery, but I've not seen it on recent visits.

Is it a picture of the actual valley or the pub?

I should go there one day and try to find other old pics

it was a painting of the valley.

They have a gallery of local prints, but they are mainly of Liverpool, not seen the picture for some years. But they have lots in storage

A fanciful penny's worth, but seem to recall, somewhat hazily it must be said, of some tradition/folklore associating Whetstone Lane area with Parliamentary forces during the English Civil War. Was there any such activity on the Wirral at that period?

Some Cavaliers were stationed in Birkenhead during the civil war.

ahh that's interesting, thanks DD

Better still ....

"The Priory was used as a garrison during the Civil War in the 17th Century and the main hall was surrendered by the Cavaliers to the Roundheads and then demolished"

SOURCE

Well well..wonder if this suggests conflict between the two forces near/in the town?

A follow up on the Priory mention and the Civil War according to the source below:

"1644 Parliamentary troops marched on Church Street during the Civil War (1642-1645) under the command of Sir William Brereton. They destroyed the one time Lodging House of the Benedictine monks"

Source: http://www.btinternet.com/~m.royden/mrlhp/students/bheadpriory/bheadpriory.htm

Did the town witness conflict between the two sides and if so could that have lead to some oral tradition about weapons being readied in the area of Whetstone Lane?

From The Headland With the Birches: A History of Birkenhead, by Agnes McCulloch (1991) - 'The effects of the Civil War reached Birkenhead when, in 1643, Royalist troops occupied Birket Hall and the woods surrounding it ... in 1644, the Royalists in Birkenhead were defeated. It is a long-held belief that Cromwell's troops halted on Tranmere Hill, whence they opened fire on the headland. The hall was partially destroyed and Tranmere Hill became known as Holt Hill, derived apparently from Halt Hill.'

Wow that's excellent...Sounds like another piece of the Whetstone Jigsaw fitting into place..

I think we might be getting carried away and jumping to conclusions.

As far as I'm aware, there is no evidence that Holt Hill was originally called 'Halt' Hill. Holt is an Anglo-Saxon word for a wood. I could just as easily jump to similar conclusions by saying that Holt Hill was one of the first stretches of road to be turn-piked and that early 19th Century maps show it once had a tollgate forcing travellers to stop.

I doubt very much if the Holt got its name from anything other than being a wooded landscape. The bottom line is we can speculate all we like but it doesn't prove anything.

http://www.oldwirral.com/tranmere.html

I tend to agree with geekus. Agnes McCulloch's book is the only place I've ever seen the 'Halt Hill' theory quoted and it has always seemed to me unlikely.

If it was named Halt Hill in the 1640s - relatively recently in historical terms - why would the name not survive in that form into modern times?

As geekus says, 'holt' is an ancient word for a wood and Tranmere Hill was presumably wooded in pre-industrial days.

Also, it's quite a long way from Holt Hill to the headland and I doubt if Cromwell's gunners would halt there to fire on the priory hall. I'm no expert, but I'm sure artillery in that era tended to bombard targets from closer quarters.

Mind you, interesting as it is, all this is getting us no nearer to answering the Whetstone Lane query.

None of the artillery available during the civil war were by any means accurate, even at close quarters they were very unreliable and more of a terror effect on troops rather than actually hitting anything. The heavy and even the light artillery pieces were not designed to be dragged up hills to fire, especially if wooded.

As for Whetstone Lane, we'll get there eventually.

Wouldn't the Cromwell troops if coming from Chester had to have
used Whetstone Lane - Grange Lane to attack the Priory(there being no Old or New Chester Road across Birkett (Tranmere)Pool at that time?
What strategic value would the Priory have had with there being such a small population here at that time.

The tower on the Everton FC badge takes it name from Prince Rupert
who beseiged Liverpool during this civil war

Royalist troops were in residence protecting access to the water crossing.

Sorry if off topic

re The civil war.
All you read about are the battles on land - which side would the navy have been on.
Could troops have been landed at Wallasey Pool and then advanced up Church St to the Priory as suggested earlier

The Navy, though depleted to what it was sided with Charles, the royalist troops at the priory were protecting the access to land from the sea, troop movements etc.

Derek it is entirely possible, given the prevailing topographic conditions in the area and strategic goals of the conflicting sides.

As to 'conclusions' mentioned by other contributors, none have ben reached, rather that folk are offering speculative insights. no one here is in any position to offer any conclusive evidence, one way or another. Nevertheless, it's interesting to note that during the Civil War Parliamentary and Royalist forces, seemingly engaged in conflict within the environs of the town.

I wish I could recall where I first heard,or read, the tale of Whetstone Lane being linked to such a skirmish, although not de facto evidence, it's as reasonable a contender for explanation as any other as to the origins of the name.

Just a thought. Oliver Cromwell's mob were at Bidston too, I believe. Could they have approached from a different route or maybe they came to Wirral from Cheshire or crossed the river at Warrington, which was a popular route at that time?

Totally reasonable, one thing for sure an army made up of a contigent of Pikemen, who also carried swords, as was the Parliamentary force, would have much use of a whetstone. #justsaying

If we could maybe pin point dates at various towns, we maybe able to follow their route in order. (another thought!) I think there is a Whetstone Lane in Warrington or near there.

I love this, you are all brilliant!

Great suggestion

The most obvious is of course the whetstone for the edging of steel, perhaps we should explore the possibility of it being named after an civil war general, Lord or other leading dignitary.

You are right about Whetstone near Warrington, a few years after the conflict in Birkenhead, a battle for Winwick Pass occured there.

Could either Hoylake,Liverpool,Birkenhead or Chester have been the embarcation port for invading Ireland (ie William of Orange from Hoylake only 40 or so years later)
note another mention of prince Rupert but in charge of a Royalist navy

English Parliamentary sources reported that the privateers' raids were severely disrupting shipping between Dublin, Liverpool and Chester. The Confederate privateers fought a "dirty war" with English Parliamentarian naval forces. In 1642, Parliamentary ships began throwing captured Wexford sailors overboard with their hands tied. In reprisal, 150-170 English prisoners were kept in Wexford and threatened with death if such killing continued.

In 1648, the Confederates and Royalists in Ireland signed a treaty joining forces against the English Parliament. After Cromwell's landing in Ireland in August 1649, therefore, Wexford was a key target for the Parliamentarians, being an important port for the Royalist alliance and a base for the privateers.

Oliver Cromwell called the battle, "an astonishing mercy, so great and seasonable that we are like them that dreamed",[13] as it meant that he had a secure port at which he could land his army in Ireland, and that he retained the capital city. With Admiral Robert Blake blockading the remaining Royalist fleet under Prince Rupert of the Rhine in Kinsale, Cromwell landed on August 15 with thirty five ships filled with troops and equipment. Henry Ireton landed two days later with a further seventy seven ships.

A leading historian on the civil war era is lecturer and author John Barratt who lives in Birkenhead. Does anyone know him?

You made rather a sweeping statement Erainn, suggesting the evidence was 'fitting' into your own military based theory. That suggested to me that you must think other explanations do not fit or help explain the origins of the Whetstone Lane name.

Not at all, simply enjoying the provision of further information, notice there was no reference to the puzzle's completion, just appreciated a further tantalizing clue. As noted earlier we operate in an areana of speculation, minus incontrovertiable evidence, so any theory can be made, question is to what scale of probability do these various suggestions measure.Looking at the knowns:

We have an area/location named as Whetstone

There is an obvious and singular meaning/use of such an object

There was known Civil War conflict within the area and town

Armies at that time would in all likelyhood have made use of such an object.

Now of themselves these do not constitute a definitive claim and I'm not asserting anything of that nature, yet in terms of connection and reason, taken together, there is a tempting logic to ask if such elements would offer a reasonable explanation, as to the origin of the name Whetstone.

That said along with fellow contributors here I'm very open to equally valid speculation, as long as it has a logical coherence, with at least a plausible set of factors as feature in this particular model.

On the subject of being open to alternatives, I think it would be wise to refrain from dismissing entirely the proposals made in 'A History of Birkenhead' by Agnes McCulloch (1991) concerning Holt Hill (not a cannonball's distance from Whetstone Lane) and it's claimed association with Parliamentary forces.

I refer to the understanding that the name of Holt Hill derives, from the Saxon for 'wood'.

According to the 'Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary' (John R. Clark Hall)

The Anglo Saxon for a wood, particularly a dense variety on raised ground, is not 'Holt' at all but:

'hyrst' which had the meanings of: ornament, decoration, jewel, treasure: accoutrements, trappings, armour. [Ger. rüstung] II. m. hillock, eminence, height, wood, wooded eminence.

Given the topography in question, this somewhat undermines the explanation offered on Holt Hill place-name origins. If it had Anglo-Saxon origins surely Hurst (from Hyrst) Hill would have been more accurate and appropriate? (given it was seemingly a hill covered in forest).

If we agree on that observation then further inquiry is invited upon the suggestion of Holt Hill possibly being a corruption of Halt Hill, with the previously mentioned intriguing Civil War associations.

One little add-on. Oldham was a main town and played a big part during the civil war. There is a Whetstone Hill Lane and a Whetstone Hill Road in Oldham.. Could that be another clue? I know it's a bit far away, but possibly this was a name connected wherever they went. Could it be that they sailed from Birkenhead to Ireland and prepared themselves before they went?
One bit of information I read (can't remember where) was that after they were defeated in Liverpool, they escapeed into ships lined up in the Mersey.

Maybe try sending a PM to Archaeo, he's wiki's resident expert on all things archaeological and landscape related. If anyone's able to shed light on Whetstone Lane and its origins I'm sure he'll have a pretty good idea.

Are we are looking at either coincidence or a hint of some folk tradition that commemorated some locations of Civil War conflicts?

Good call Geekus

Possibly coincidence I suppose.

Well there lies the fun in not knowing for sure

Mmmmmmmm!

One thing for sure, at least we have some reasoned possibilities to examine that may well explain the origins of Whetstone Lane. In this regard am reminded too of the saying that 'the most obvious is often most seldom seen' and the name is such a specific one, so any information that links it with local warfare naturally seems an attractive and persuasive theory.

Now here's another curious coincidence relating to the place called Whetstone in Middlesex, seems a local tradition claims the stone "was used by soldiers about to fight in the Battle of Barnet"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whetstone,_London

A battle, fought during the English Civil War, has given rise to a legend associated with a whetstone, now where have I heard that before?

Ha Ha , now then. The plot thickens. There are a few more Whetstone's around the UK, one in Derbyshire I think and others dotted all over the country. Doesn't mean they are in anyway connected tho' .

Yes, agree with you, tantalizing coincidence though.

Attached are some extracts relating to the Civil War from the authoritative book Birkenhead Priory and the Mersey Ferry, by R Stewart-Brown.

They don't throw any light on the Whetstone Lane query, or the Halt Hill-Holt Hill controversy, but are interesting enough in themselves.

Personally, I think relating Whetstone Lane to the Civil War is a tempting and romantic theory, but any connection seems unlikely.

As a child, I trudged up and down Whetstone Lane daily to and from school and even to us youngsters the name was unusual enough to enquire about - naturally, we thought it was a misspelling of 'wet' stone.

But I seem to remember our teachers told us the name came from a large stone in the area that local folk once used to sharpen their knives and other implements.

As simple as that ... or maybe not.

It is indeed an alluring thought to associate the origins of Whetstone Lane with a stone possibly used by forces engaged in the English Civil War. Before rejecting it however perhaps we should mention other possible explanations.

Option One: It could be derived from a corrupted version of West-Stone

Thoughts: As noted by Geekus, that seems undermined by its location. which is not on the western side of Birkenhead. It could of course be a reference to one time boundary stone marking the 'western section' of a land. However do we have any record (paper or archaeological of such a demarcated area?

Option Two: Perhaps it is named after an individual, or someone of a particular trade in that location?

Thoughts: Reasonable possibility, yet according to Dodgson there was a nearby location of Whetstone Meadow dating back to 1824 or even earlier. Is there any record of noted figures in the area bearing the name 'Whetstone' or variants?

Option Three: The name could have it's origins in the Anglo-Saxon term

hwete-, hwet-stân (whetstone)

Thoughts: If so we have a curious inconsistency in that nearby Holt Hill (thought by some to be derived from the Saxon for 'wood') more correctly should have been described in Anglo-Saxon as Hyrst meaning a wood on raised ground, which clearly would have been the case with Tranmere/Holt Hill. So. if one location was accurately named by Anglo-Saxons as hwet-stân (whetstone) why would the same people have not described a hill covered in trees with the adjective (Hyrst) their tongue used for such a location?

We should consider also if this area of Tranmere Hill was a known location of Saxon settlement, or was it Scandinavian? If the latter then we could anticipate local place-names to reflect that (as is the case itself with Tranmere (a seemingly Viking term). However, 'whetstone'in the Old Norse tongue would be something like:

hvessa bjarg (or steinn) which would translate as 'sharpen (whet) stone'

The fact it bears more similarity to the Anglo-Saxon version tends to rule out Scandinavian origins, [i]yet we have the curiosity of a location name in an area possibly under Scandinavian settlement, raising the question why would (what presumably would be a known and important local feature) not be given a Norse description and if so why would that not have passed down through the centuries?

Option Four:

The name is derived from an original stone, located in the area used for sharpening impliments, that became associated, through local tradition, with conflict within the area during the English Civil War

Thoughts:

As with the other options we have speculation only, although there is an identical association ascribed by legend to the stone at Whetstone near London that claims it was used by soldiers prior to the Battle Of Brentford. Of course we are in the realm of romance and foklore here however what we do know is that Birkenhead did witness fighting during the Civil War, would it be too fanciful to consider that a local 'whetstone' may have been used by soldiers at that time?

Shall leave Sherlock Holmes to address that, when the character. in The Sign Of The Four remarked "Eliminate all other factors, and the one which remains must be the truth"

spot on that enjoyed the read is ther any moor on this topic guy n girls

Could they have quarried Lime Stone ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/Z9N5nCzASkeUt2GevCdEZQ

Wirral's geology (non Glacial deposits) is dominated by Sandstone, a suitable stone for sharpening objects, so Limestone is not present.

A really intersting thread, granny and some great contributions. Just a couple of comments.

The origin of the name ‘Holt Hill’ as suggested by Agnes McCulloch in 1991 was ridiculed by William Fergusson Irvine (one of the eminent local historians of the day) a century before. In the introduction to a talk he gave to the THSLC in 1892 entitled “Place Names in the Hundred of Wirral”, he gave examples of what he saw as the trends (at that time) of unscientific and romantic approaches to determining the origin of place names: “No interpretation of a name can be admitted, however seemingly appropriate, until we have first satisfied ourselves of the historical possibility, not to say probability, of the proposed etymology.” He went on to say:

‘While on this subject, it may be as well to draw your attention to the amusing fact that in a recently published memoir of Birkenhead, we find that Holt Hill (so named, we had always understood, from the holt or wood that till recent years clothed its summit) is in reality so called because " the army" of Cromwell (sic) was called to halt upon this " eminence." I may add that the name Holt Hill occurs in a document dated 1327.’

It’s a pity that Irvine does not name the 1327 document. However, his use of scare quotes seems to indicate that he considered the term “the army” was a gross exaggeration and that Holt Hill did not warrant the “eminence” description.

As far as whetstone is concerned, Dodgson says “hwet-stan OE, 'a whetstone'; alluding either to a particular rock or stone, or to a place where such stone was to be got” and gives examples: Whetstone Lane, Whetstonedge, Whetstone Hey, Whetstone Ridge.

I don’t think anyone would disagree that Mill Lane was the lane that lead to the mill, or Manor Lane lead to the manor, or there was a bridge on Bridge Street. Why can’t Whetstone Lane be simply the lane that lead to the whetstone?

Thanks for an excellent contribution, Nightwalker. It shoots down Cromwell's gunners on 'Halt Hill' and gives a simple answer to what has developed into a complicated - but undoubtedly interesting - question.

Why was it called Whetstone Lane? Because there was a whetstone there.

Indeed, and as noted previously sword carrying soldiers, engaged in conflict within the locality, would perhaps of made use of this stone to add an edge to their weapons. Possibly giving rise to an association between Whetstone Lane and the Civil War, after all such a connection is not that outlandish, as evidenced by the tradition linked to Whetstone in Middlesex.

As to Holt Hill it was something of a distraction in relation to the discussion, interesting though as important questions have placed under the microscope the claim its name derives from an Anglo-Saxon term for 'wood'.

Another look at the etomology Whetstone, supporting the theory of the old English word 'hwet-stan'. See Ancestry freepages - origins.

So what kind of stone would this have been?. The underlying rock is 'Triassic sandstone and conglomerate, interbedded' according to the BGS geology data overlay for Google Earth - basically the red sandstone that we all know.
So, why have a quarry at the bottom of the hill if any old piece of plentiful red sandstone would do - unless this quarry or one nearby had something a bit special 'interbedded' in it? We already know that it is quite common to find yellow sandstone locally, but I seem to remember seeing that Storeton has red sandstone as well as a layer of harder, creamier coloured stone in its quarry. And by looking at the houses and walls in Whetstone Lane (albeit of far later construction) both red, yellow and cream seem to be used - the latter weathering the best - all of which must have been quarried locally.

Wirral does have granite as well in the form of boulders that were swept down with the ice flow from Scotland.

Some of its natural sandstone is exceptionally hard, it was famous enough to be used to clad the Empire State Building.

That's all a bit erratic, wouldn't you say?!

I think there's quite a large granite one in Wallasey's Central Park, just by the walled gardens.

Following on from Norton’s post, my knowledge of geology is practically nil, so this suggestion may be ridiculous. Is it not possible that there was an outcrop of granite or other hard stone amongst all the sandstone, which was exposed due to erosion or quarrying? As an example, I’m thinking of the Grannie Rock on Wallasey Breck. I was told many years ago that the name was a corruption of ‘the granite rock’ so called because it was …granite. But this is at the top of the Wallasey sandstone ridge.

Even today the rock is very impressive, despite continuing erosion (and attacks by the local graffiti vandals). Perhaps there was a similar outcrop around the Whetstone Lane area which disappeared during the rapid expansion of Birkenhead.

Not ridiculous at all Nightwalker, I assume if granite can find its way to Wales then small pockets could find its way here. My knowledge of geology is not practically nil, it is nil.

So is mine!! To be honest, I only cut and pasted the big words, but not trying to show off.
I like the idea that the Ice Age brought them here, the same way as pebbles on the beach. Pebbles start as rocks and get rubbed together, so getting smaller and smoother. So that won't happen to a big lump on granite that's landed on a hill, or to one that's got stuck in a valley - will it?
Maps are great for showing us where the quarries were, but not what was in them. If it was for sandstone, you could dig a quarry almost anywhere on this side of the Wirral to get some. It's the type of material and its quality that is important, which is why the likes of Storeton exsisted until the best stone was exhausted.

Sorry if this is going off topic a bit but, there is a possibility that Grannie or "Granny's" Rock was left isolated in the quarry at Wallasey Breck simply because it had originally acted as some kind of crane base or pulley system for lifting the surrounding stone blocks.

I don't think that Granny's Rock is made of anything other than sandstone. I always heard it was called Granny's Rock because the shape of the rock had a seat like appearance on one side and looked like an old person's chair.

Off topic also but info on Granny Rock here

The Breck is a large feature of Wallasey village which cannot be passed by unnoticed. The Breck rises to around 180 feet at its peak as was a large open common for the people of the township.

In 1845 Sir John Tobin of Liscard Hall purchased the land and worked the rocks as a quarry.
The largest and most sheer rock face is known
locally as Grannie Rock.

The Breck was an old playground for the older people of Wallasey and many people would climb or attempt to
climb the rock face.

In recent years this has stopped as many of the foot holes and grips have eroded which is the only method of
being able to climb up the face.

The top ground of the Breck is a relatively flat area which had been used as a bed for the large crane
to sit on whilst it lifted materials from inside the quarry. This part of the rock face was much more
difficult to climb and has resulted in several injury's and reported deaths.

In Noel E Smiths book
"Sand Stone & Mortar" he mentions that a young boy in 1927 attempted to jump from the top and
parachute down using an umbrella. Needless to say the poor lad did not survive.

At the moment I'm thinking of whetstone as being West Town at the start of Birkenhead.
We have now a Northend and Southend of Birkenhead (where did those names originate)


In Street Name of Wirral by Steve Horton there is no mention of Whetstone Lane or Holt hill.
There is "Wetsone Lane and Holm Hill are named after Wetstone House, that later became Holm Hill. In the early 20th century it was the home of James Bibby, an oil cake manufacturer."


Extracts from a book by John Nichols - 1807, covering the Guthlaxton Hundred:-
The name Whetstone is probably a corruption of West-Town (abbreviated Weston). “Within the Deanery of Guthlaxton, in the ecclesiastical division of the county”, described as situated “but a little distance west from the turnpike road leading from Leicester to Northampton”.



Millstone grit
Local stone of the Calder Valley which is predominantly a coarse sandstone. It is a sedimentary rock composed of coarse grains of sand. It is quarried for use as building material. The name comes from the fact that it was used for millstones to grind flour and for whetstones to sharpen blades.



At the height of the Civil War, Colonel Sir Thomas Tyldsley arrived in Birkenhead with a troop of Cavaliers and proceeded to find his cannons across the river at the Roundheads who, at that time, held Liverpool’s 13th century castle. The castle survived this particular bombardment only to be replaced by church in 1743 and later by the Queen Victoria Monument in 1897. Castle Street is the only trace that Liverpool now has of its ancient castle.
If the cannon could reach Liverpool, I should think from the top of Holt Hill they'd have been able to reach the Priory

There's no problem a cannon reaching Liverpool from here but was unlikely to hit anything with any consistency, hence the reason the castle survived, the mortar was more of an effective weapon but couldn't reach Liverpool from here.

Wirral's bedrock is Sedimentary, not Igneous, so no Granites

Open the Geology Of Britain viewer here

http://www.bgs.ac.uk/discoveringGeology/geologyOfBritain/viewer.html

But large boulders of granite were brought here by glaciers.

Well we would need to know of examples, locations on the Wirral, as that would be interesting to note.

Such as occur in the Glacial deposits at Thurstaton

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/434596

Not sure though if they are granites diorites, metamorphic, etc

Seems one study of samples from erratics at that location showed Diopside a mineral associated with Metamorphism, so in that specific case not a Granite

http://www.mindat.org/min-1294.html

There have been claims of Criffel Granite erratics on the Wirral, though would be good to know where. This is an example of one such in Lancashire:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1849218

Note though that Sandstone, with it's quartz rich content makes sa very practical Whetstone

Barnston (the Barn Stone) and Willaston (the Wirral Stone) are two that spring to mind, I'm fairly sure Bidston was listed somewhere.

At Thurstaston you can see granite pebbles and rocks falling out the cliff face.

And at Parkgate you can see granite pebbles in the sandstone blocks along the promenade.

Excellent.See post above

lol - was so busy editing my post, I missed that.


Good research

No probs

I've always understood that the ending "ton" was a shortening of "town".

Interested to know the earliest reference or map about Whetstone Lane, Birkenhead/Tranmere?

Me too.

Presumably the 'Whetstone' element preceded the 'Lane' as hinted at by the aforementioned 'Whetstone Meadows', suggesting any such stone was located in a field?

1762
BY nightwalker In Qld Chester Road POST
I can find no trace of a coach running regularly between Chester and Woodside Ferry before 4 June, 1762, when it was announced that a new machine with six able horses would set out from the Golden Talbot, in Chester, for the Woodside Ferry Boathouse every Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday morning at 8 o'clock, and take passengers at 4s. each, returning at 4 o'clock on the same day to Chester. The same machine went every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to Parkgate, at 2s. 6d. each. Boats would attend at the Woodside on the above days to carry passengers to Liverpool.

It is somewhat difficult to determine what road the coaches used between Chester and Woodside. At first the route appears to have been from Chester to Bromborough Pool (the present Chester Road); thence by Lower Bebington and Dacre Hill to Tranmere, along what is now Church Road, and down Whetstone Lane to Grange Lane (now Grange Road), and on to Woodside. About 1790 the Old Chester Road was improved and the coaches, after passing Lower Bebington to Dacre Hill, there turned to the right along the Old Chester Road, crossing the Pool (Tranmere) by the bridge, or rather embankment.

A headsup on the derivation of the place name ending 'ton'

tûn enclosure, garden, field, yard, farm, manor, homestead, dwelling, house, mansion, group of houses, village, 'town,'

Take your pick

Sorry, I wasn't clear, they are local names for granite boulders that exist in those villages, I missed the inference to the village names.

As an aside, the origin of the name of Wallasey’s Granny/Grannie/Granny’s Rock illustrates the difficulty of determining the etymology of place names. Although a relatively recent addition to the landscape, we have my version of it being a corruption of ‘granite’, geekus and his old person’s chair, and another suggestion that from a certain angle it looks like the profile of an old woman. Take you pick!

Indeed, especially when it comes to an obviously localized name such as 'Granny's Rock etc. We are upon firmer ground (pun intended) with place-names that have a clear antiquity in terms of them deriving from Norse or Saxon origin, as we have touched upon with 'Whetsone'. Of course that does not suggest, any presumably existing stone in that area, was named at that time, the term though had entered the common tongue.

Although, that said there is not the same degree of probability with considering 'Holt Hill' to be a rendering of the Saxon for 'wood', as detailed previously the more correct Saxon term would be Hyrst (to evolve into Hurst) for a wooded slope or hill.

I'm still curious to learn more of the spot called Whetstone Meadows, is there any map reference or other historical notes on that place?

Holt Hill name - a possible explanation is it is named after a hamlet called Holt.
What type of rock was quarried from the Old Chester Road quarries?
I seem to recall reading it was used for facing the docks and not as infill behind the facings

Excellent find

I was up in Mersey Park today and stumbled on what could be a granite deposit. There doesn't seem to be any particular reason for it to be there and I don't know if it's always been there (I'm not from around that area)or was dropped as a little feature in the park.
The fact that it is only about 500 yards from the top of Whetstone Lane could show there may have been granite deposits in the area being dicussed.

The rock is just as you enter the park after going up Holt Road and turning left into Seymore Street. Straight ahead then into the park there is a house that looks like an old lodge and the boulder is to the right.

I managed to get a piccy of it as my camera was in the car.

We have it being either there as an example of a glacial erratic, deposited there for building purposes or as garden /park feature or a cunning listening device planted by MI6 Whichever, there is no Granite in the Bedrock of Wirral's geology.

There were a lot of stone walls around Wirral once upon a time......do you get my meaning?

From a different view point, there was Tranmere Old Hall, Holt House and Holt Cottage. Maybe the land (Whetstone Meadow) belonged to one or other. Wills might be an option.

When I said granite deposits I didn't mean natural bedrock, I meant glacial deposits dropped by retreating glacial melt. Sorry for the confusion.

No probs, always hard to know when in isolation like that, also its location in a park could suggest alternative reasons for its presence.

That's a thought, never heard of it previously, hoping as you suggest, wills, or other sources may shed some light.

This may not be of any use at all with regard to Whetstone Lane research but I have a copy of this book and it is so very intresting. Unfortunately I can't absorb it all!
It has an index and is easy to read online. It may also be good for reference in other areas. There is some reference to Tranmere on various pages but not what we are lookung for. See page 110 Holt Cottage and 115 for stonemasons. Page 137 at the bottom ..Lord of the Manors.

Good weekend reading.

http://www.archive.org/details/wapentakeofwirra00stewuoft

Good find Thanks for the share

Don't know if this has been seen before by any of you. I'm probably 6 pages behind!

http://www.oldwirral.com/tranmere_quarry.html

I'm sure that site has been linked before, but no harm in a repeat. At least they've credited wikiwirral with some of the content.
In the section "The old tunnels" the info is almost exclusively from Pinzgauer and myself, with pictures by our contact, Andrew, at Mellwood Construction.