whats with the names on the wall? also little loo loo grave?
Nelsons heroes ? connection ?

Where is this Tc?

St Andrews, Bebington.

Little loo loo died in St Kilda, Australia. (google) don't know if thats on the headstone.
Nelsons Heroes, best guess would be, someone wounded at Trafalgar and died ashore.
Names carved on church walls, i remember reading somewhere this was done when families couldn't afford headstones.

yes where she died is on the head stone but it would of taken wks to bring her body all the way to england by boat so why? and if shes that important why no proper name or surname?
and who paid for it?

Is there evidence on the headstone that Little loo loo is female. If she/he sailed from these shores on a ship then they must have thought it appropriate to bring the body back. Perhaps that is a proper name, maybe from foreign heritage. Any photos of the headstone.

I believe that some of the graffiti came from the school that was sited there fron 1791 to 1827.Agree with Bert though that some of the carving would be for those who couldn't afford a headstone (and dates after the school).

"The parish school which began in the belfry, moved in 1791 to a built-on vestry at the East corner.Indentations in what is now the outside wall show where the pupils sharpened their slate-pencils, though the other walls of this room have long been demolished."

http://www.standrewsbebington.org.uk/about-us/history/

The Little Loo grave reads
Little Loo,/Died at St Kilda,/Near Melbourne,/Victoria, /December 20th 1853.

The other is in memory of Charles Corlett , 'One of Nelson's Heros'

Source:"St Andrew's Bebington" by Richrd Lancelyn Green

Near that wall is a gravestone for some of the Bather (as in Bathers the tyre place on the New Chester Road) family who I have in my family tree. Unfortunately my family's (Dodd) headstones were removed when the churchyard was redesigned and renovated in May 1968 which I'm not very happy about (although I do have the records of the monuments

some of the dates carved in the wall go right back to the 1600s so thats before the school (pic of headstone up soon)

Are the MI's available for the stones that were removed? I've often wandered around the graveyard looking for stones of my OXTON family,, there is only one left now, just around the corner from the graffiti.

Bebington family history group have this information

We have recently completed transcribing the Memorial Inscriptions at St. Andrew's and have produced a book that also contains photographs of all the current headstones.
The book also incorporates those transcriptions recorded by the S.O.G. in 1968, before the headstones were removed.
There is a copy of the book at Bebington Library, Alderley Edge and our own library.
The book has now been produced on CD and is available for purchase through the usual channels.
NEW! The BebingtonGroup will do lookups and and provide extracts from the book for the following fees : Monumental Inscription only £1.20; Inscription plus pictures of church & churchyard, plot plan, and, if available, picture of grave £2.50.
Click on the "Group Leader" link above and email us with the details of the ancestor you wish us to trace. We will reply and let you know if we can locate a grave.

Alan

Excuse my asking, do you mean The Cheshire Family History Society, Bebington Group? (I'm a member of the FHSC).

Or is this a new group?

(edit)
Ah just checked the FHSC and saw the CD for sale, thanks Alan.

Re Charles Corlett
"
By coincidence I have been tracing a hero of Trafalgar. He was born on the
Isle of Man, went to Portsmouth and returned to Liverpool around 1841 in
retirement. In 1861 he was still in Liverpool - but in 1862, nearly ninety, he
turns up in Birkenhead overlooking the same patch of water previously mentioned.

Yesterday I found his obituary copied as follows :--

Here is the obituary for Charles Corlett.

The identity of the Nelson hero who lies buried in the Churchyard at
Bebigton. The following obituary appeared in the Liverpool Mercury,
Saturday, 1st. February, 1862 (page 5, column 6) :--

“Corlett – Jan. 25.

At the residence of his son, No 7 Wellington Street, Rock Ferry.
Mr. Charles Corlett, aged 91. The deceased was one of Admiral Lord
Nelson’s heroes, and was at the Battle of the Nile 1798, Cpoenhagen
1801, Trafalgar 1805. Was at the siege of Rangoon in the East Indies;
was in several cutting out expeditions, and was several times taken
prisoner and made his escape; and what is remarkable, the deceased only
received one shot wound in the thigh, during the whole of his career.
On Wednesday last the deceased was interred with all naval honours
by the kind permission of Capt. Inglefield, of her Majesty’s ship,
MAJESTIC, about 60 of the crew, consisting of marines, seamen, naval
volunteers in procession, bearing him to the graveyard, Bebington, on
a field piece belonging to the ship.”
"

I lifted this off ancestry "copyright"/thanks to to Ricky Cooper

thanx for all the info guys
defo going to be going back for another visit and to take more pics so if anyone would like me to look at or photo anything while im there just say

pics of the little loo loo headstone and nelsons hero.

Thanks for the pics TC.

Referring to Inflatablebone's post (Nelsons Hero)
Reading elsewhere it is questionable whether Charles Corlett was at Trafalgar, apparently research done by others can't trace him on the Trafalgar Roll, of course this wouldn't lessen his hero status having been present at other campaigns. Any evidence to contradict their findings.

Charles Corlett does not appear on the The Ayshford Trafalgar Roll which is more comprehensive than the PRO Trafalgar Roll.

Nor does he appear on the index to the commissioned sea officers of the Royal Navy of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars 1793-1815.

If your further interested in this man you can follow a thread here about him, the mystery just deepens.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Mariners/2008-01/1201347882

Thanks Oxton, Strange that the IOM deemed it fitting enough to have a Charles Corlett mentioned regarding an issue of stamps, Manxmen at Trafalgar.

http://stampsonstamps.brinkster.net/Isle%20of%20man/Isle%20of%20man.htm

Below a link, Manxmen who served at Trafalgar

http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/mnh/heritage/library/9manxmeninnelsonsnavyx2.pdf

http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/fulltext/worthies/ch07.htm#134 some more snippet's here.
Also a great source for family history,i have traced lots through the old wills on here.

Thanks for the link PP, still a little bit of mystery on this man.

Very strange he can't be found on official roll's!

A bit early to jump to conclusions i know, I suspect someone has in the past, if you give someone the title Nelsons hero, then most will jump to the conclusion he would have served at Trafalgar, especially the uninitiated who thought Trafalgar was Nelsons only battle, i prefer to be guided by the official rolls, of which he doesn't appear.

well its very interesting about corlett, i may be wrong but maybe his stone isnt wether beaten maybe it was defaced because of the mystery of him not being on any official list?

I've been trying to see what I could find about this man, and if it was not for the picture, and the various descriptions I would have said it was all a load of old tosh.

But;

The registers of St. Andrews Church Bebington clearly say,
Charles Corlett buried 29th January 1862, aged 90.

The earlier Newspaper report says he died 25th January 1862, so far so good, but can I find him on the 1861 Census, can I hell.
Nor could I find his son at 7 Wellington Street, Rock Ferry.
I cannot find him on the 51 or 41 Census.

I do think the stone is wether beaten, if you were going to deface it I would have thought you would go for "One of Nelson's Heros"

If he had all that fuss, surely the event would be in the Newspaper of the time, perhaps that's where we should look for more information.
Just a thought, is the stone in it's original location? or was it moved in the 1868 clearence?

i thought it was strange to have a headstone butted up against the church wall they normally leave a gap! ummm

I also ran him through the ancestry mangle and found nothing.

As it happens last week i was in a cemetery and there must have been about 50 headstones hard up against a wall, they had no uniformity of dates, i assumed they were placed against the wall for safety after they had fallen elsewhere etc.

Looking at the headstone which must have been very decorative at the time and assuming must of cost a penny or two.
To me it looks like the stern of a ship, anyone got any ideas on that?
Is it a Naval crest associated with something in particular?

According to the 1851 census there was a Charles Corlett living in Liverpool, aged 76, born I.O.M., occupation Smith, wife Sarah.

I think that this is the same guy as there are very few Corletts recorded outside the I.O.M. in the early records, and ‘our’ Corlett married a Sarah (Dowling) in Alverstoke, Hampshire (by Portsmouth) in 1811.

The occupation of ‘Smith’ is interesting. Could it be that Charles was one of Nelson’s land-based heroes based in the ship yards at Portsmouth, Gibraltar and elsewhere. When he left the navy and moved to Liverpool nobody would know about his past and over time he could have made up a few stories, perhaps even just to get a few free pints at the local pub. All the exploits claimed in his obituary are well before his marriage, so perhaps even his family were hoodwinked.

Strange that he doesn't appear in the 1861 census.

Mmm but why was he interred with all naval honours,surely he couldn't have duped the Navy?

Fair comment, but died 25th, buried 29th - no instant checking of records in those days. Perhaps the only person to be duped was Capt. Inglefield, of her Majesty’s ship, MAJESTIC which just happened to be in port? And that might easily be done if the guy had become a bit of a local celebrity.

I have come across similar information elsewhere on his marriage and occupation, though not on Ancestry, i only checked 1861, well done Nightwalker for that. There seems to be a discrepancy on his age, 1851, 76 years old and dieing at the age of 90, 1862. Perhaps nothing in that to be to concerned about.

My grandfather was buried with full military honours in 1940 having left the Army after the Boar war, until now i can't find any outstanding reason for it other than doing an old soldier and his family a favour if you like, I tend to think if a request is made the regiment will do everything they can to oblige. Perhaps the captain felt obliged after the request.

Sorry, dying at the age of 90.

I’m not too bothered about age discrepancies either, Bert. My experience in family history research is that many people of that era had only a rough idea of how old they were – one of my ggfs put down a wrong age in all the censuses from 1841 to 1881. I also agree that a request for military honours from the family of one of ‘Nelson’s Heroes’ would have been accepted fairly readily by the Majestic’s captain without investigation into his exploits. I don’t think there’s much doubt that Corlett had been employed by the navy in some capacity (which had given him the background knowledge to make his stories believable) and perhaps the family had proof by way of a pension, discharge papers or similar.

There still remains the question of why he was listed as being one of the Manxmen at Trafalgar on the IOM stamp site. Perhaps there’s an explanation for that. The obituary in the Liverpool Mercury would have been based on information obtained from either the family or the vicar’s funeral address (which would be based on information obtained from the family!). I am 100% sure that the details would not have been checked before publication. Then, in 1901 a book was published called ‘Manx Worthies’ and Corlett was listed in the military section and his details are almost identical, word for word to the Mercury’s obituary. Apparently this book became recognised as the prime reference book on 18/19th century Manxmen. And so family stories became fact!

I’m not trying to put Corlett down, merely putting forward an alternative which is as plausible as a hero who gets no mention in any official military records.

Nightwalker, its not a question of putting anyone down which you haven't, just trying to reach a factual conclusion, you as well as others have given it their best shot. I prefer to be guided by official records and if there is no record of this man being at Trafalgar we have to go with it. I think this thread has been enjoyable and informative, I'm now going to leave this man in peace.


What about Little loo loo

I've emailed the St. Kilda Historical Society in Aussieland to see if they know anything. There can't have been too many people who died there on the 20 December 1853 and their records might give us a name at least

off topic but my great,great,great, great uncle was the first mayor of St Kilda

Excellent, look forward to their reply.

Just been browsing the early history of St. Kilda to see if there are any clues about Little Loo Loo (there aren't!) and if your ggggu was Benjamin C. he gets a lot of very honourable mentions. Seems like an interesting story here, Derek.

ooo great stuff i hope they reply soon

with there being no reference to age or sex on the headstone could little loo loo have been an animal? or much loved mascot or working animal? (am i the only one thinking about this possibility? ha)

Ships cats were common place aboard vessels before and after that period of time, keeping vermin down their main duty. Whether they would have been thought of high enough to bring one back from abroad for burial, i would have my doubts but who knows, another question would be, would a clergyman at that time be willing to allow an animal to be buried in his churchyard. Headstones couldn't have been cheap, would a ships crew or individual pay for an animal when many a human went without.

As it would take over three months to sail from Australia, whether animal or human presumably the body would have to be preserved in some way (perhaps the same as Nelson's was pickled in brandy). It seems unlikely that an animal would merit the cost involved (though the Victorians could be a strangely sentimental lot at times!). Also, I think a person would have to be important or rich to merit such treatment. I'm coming round to the view that this is a memorial headstone with no body in the grave.

No word from St. Kilda as yet.

Hi

I hope no-one minds but I posted on another website in the hope we might get some help with "Little Loo Loo" & I used TRANCENTRAL's picture if thats ok.

I'm not sure I got any further, but some of the posts you might find interesting, expecially the one were it seems people were trying to figure it out in 1889 just 36 years after the event, so I not sure if this mystery will be solved.

The link is

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3kq9mhbe2ppjtupsdnmt81k8u1&topic=560678.0

Well done Oxton, I can't believe anyone would go through the trouble of providing a headstone and omitting the real name, i would have thought the name would have been put on and the nickname fondly known by be put on underneath or bracketed.
Just my opinion, i lean towards someone of foreign extraction who was thought highly enough of that they didn't want their passing to go unrecognised or unrecorded.

me and tc went to the civic center today and asked for help, the bloke found another forum on line talking about it and printed it off for us and it just happens to be you so thanx for all your help

we have a walk organised this Sunday (wiki walk thread)to St Andrews so if any of you are interested in seeing the graves or sharing your knowledge it would be great if you popped along

Have just received a response. Not much help but at least they've tried:

Hello Dave
I have been trying to find out about little Loo Loo but to no avail. There was no cemetery in St Kilda in 1853 and Melbourne General Cemetery has lost records in a fire. It would seem that her parents returned to the UK and maybe wanted a memorial to remember her by. It is unlikely at that time that a body could be carried to the UK as a voyage would have taken about 8 weeks. I am sorry not to be able to help you as it is an intriguing mystery

Dorothy Lobert
Secretary
St Kilda Historical Society
PO Box 177
Balaclava 3183
Telephone 0405 510799

Bump anymore info on this?