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Posted By: Lovelfc88 Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 23rd Dec 2021 5:57pm
Hi,

I’m looking for some help!
Does anyone remember this pub back in the 60s early 70s. I’m trying to piece some fame history together. Don’t really no much about some of my family and would be nice if anyone had any stories good or bad.
So from what I know I had an uncle called Harold who ran this pub in 60s maybe early 70s. Also my Nan named Sylvia ran the North Star similar era. She had a husband called William and sons call graham, Keith, cliff, Glynn, David and a daughter called Tina.
If anyone has any memories I’d love to hear them.
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Dec 2021 1:13pm
There were 2 North Stars in Birkenhead.
North Star Hotel Laird St is still there as a pub
North Star Hotel 332 Cleveland Street was demolished a while ago
click

The Wheatsheaf building is still there but is no longer a pub

Attached picture 126 North Star Hotel 332 Cleveland Street.jpg
Attached picture 212 North Star Hotel Laird St.JPG
Attached picture 140 Wheat sheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road.jpg
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Dec 2021 10:11pm
Hi Everyone from a baking hot Perth,Western Australia.
Hope you are all having a safe Christmas.
I'm hoping I can call on you to help me find anything in relation to my family.
My name is Paul Vanderwall and I was born in 1961 in Birkenhead.
My father was Frederick Vanderwall born in 1925 in Birkenhead.
He was married to Joan Corcran.
They were married in 1950 in Birkenhead.
My grandfather on my father's side was Frederick Daniel Vanderwall who lived in Neptune Street Birkenhead.
His first wife was Annie Neish(Jones) who he married in 1923.
Annie died in 1933 at the age of 37.
My grandfather remarried again in 1939 to Dolly Keel.
Annie Neish is my real grandmother who I know nothing about.
I know her and my grandfather also lived at 24 Neptune Street.
Annie had been previously married to Simon Neish in 1916,but Simon died in 1919 and had no children.
If anyone can help with any memories at all I would be so grateful.
Thanks again
Paul Vanderwall
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Dec 2021 8:02am
Paul,
Annie Elizabeth Jones father was Thomas Jones, do you know his occupation. It should be on the marriage certificates when marrying Neish or Vanderwall, if you have had sight of either.

Just a possibility, recorded as Anna Elizabeth Jones aged 15 visiting the Peever family, Edward Peever and family, 1911 census, Birkenhead. AEJ, Born in Mountain Ash, Glamorgan.

Possibly the daughter of Thomas Simon Jones and Elizabeth Jane Jones, nee Smith, Glamorgan.

Thomas S Jones was a Warehouseman, it would be handy to know Annie Elizabeth's fathers occupation at marriage.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Dec 2021 8:15am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean

Annie had been previously married to Simon Neish in 1916,but Simon died in 1919 and had no children.


I would look into this birth,
Name: George F Neish
Registration Date: Jul 1917
[Aug 1917]
[Sep 1917]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Merseyside
Mother's Maiden Name: Jones
Volume Number: 8a
Page Number: 674
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Dec 2021 8:38am
Name George Francis Neish
Sex Male
Christening Date 5 Aug 1917
Christening Place Birkenhead, Cheshire, England, United Kingdom
Christening Place (Original) St Peter, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Father's Name Simon Neish
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Annie Elizabeth Neish
Mother's Sex Female
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Dec 2021 8:41am
Death,

Name: George F Neish
Death Age: 22
Birth Date: abt 1917
Registration Date: Oct 1939
[Nov 1939]
[Dec 1939]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 1275
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Dec 2021 10:50am
The following are buried in Wallasey Cemetery, all in the same grave, Section 15c Grave 22.

George Francis Neish, December 18, 1939, 12 Claughton Rd, Birkenhead.

Annie Frances Vanderwall, 13 January, 1933, 11 Neptune St, Birkenhead.

Simon Neish, March 4, 1919, 11 Neptune St, Birkenhead.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Dec 2021 12:09pm
Paul,

Are you aware, at the marriage to Annie Elizabeth Neish and Dorris Keel, Frederick Daniel Vanderwall declared another name along with FDV. I will elaborate if need be, I don't think anything sinister.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 6:12am
Hi there
Yes I saw that name also
Why would that be?
My grandfather was originally from Sri Lanka
No idea when he arrived in the UK.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 6:19am
Hi Bert 1
When you say Wallasy do you mean Rake Lane Cemetery?
Such a small world,my wife snd children I've in Rake lane for 10 years and visited the Cemetery 1000,s of tines.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 6:41am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi Bert 1
When you say Wallasy do you mean Rake Lane Cemetery?
Such a small world,my wife snd children I've in Rake lane for 10 years and visited the Cemetery 1000,s of tines.

You say Annie Frances Vanderwall.
So there is Annie E Vanderwall also?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 6:54am
Sorry Paul, Typo,
Annie Elizabeth Vanderwall, Wallasey Cem, also known as Wallasey Rake Lane Cemetery.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-992H-FH19?i=132&cat=1027047
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 7:13am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi there
Yes I saw that name also
Why would that be?
My grandfather was originally from Sri Lanka
No idea when he arrived in the UK.


Possible reasons.

As these indexes are based on the original data held by the local register offices, the database will often contain extra entries with the same reference number. The reasons for an extra entry can be one of the following:
Remarriage. Where the lady is remarrying and both her maiden name and former married name are on the entry in the register, then both are listed in the indexes. It is not possible to tell from the indexes which is the maiden name.
Change of name. Some entries in the register show alternative names for both firstnames and surnames. All will be listed in the indexes.
Poor writing. Where the original handwriting in the register is unclear all possible interpretations are listed in the indexes.
Parent's surname differs from child's. For example, if a child is raised by the mother without the father being present, he or she may have taken the mother's surname, so when the parent's surname differs on the entry in the register, both surnames may be used in the index.
Difference between the name as entered by the registrar and the name as signed.
Alias names (also known as / formerly known as).
Hyphenated surnames may be listed as both names and/or each name separately.
The list below will show both husband/wife and wife/husband combinations for all the entries that match your chosen reference number.
Click on the reference numbers in the search results for each entry that you are interested in. This will add the index entry to a summary page.
By repeating the above for any of the BMD web sites in the UKBMD group, you can add more entries to your summary page.
From the summary page you can then decide which certificates you may wish to order. The reference numbers are links to printable application forms.
The entries will remain on your summary page until you close your browser.
Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1923
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JAMES Percy Karolis NEISH Annie Elizabeth 1923 Birkenhead, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended Wirral BW/123/166
NEISH Annie Elizabeth JAMES Percy Karolis 1923 Birkenhead, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended Wirral BW/123/166
NEISH Annie Elizabeth VANDERWALL Frederick Daniel 1923 Birkenhead, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended Wirral BW/123/166
VANDERWALL Frederick Daniel NEISH Annie Elizabeth 1923 Birkenhead, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended Wirral BW/123/166
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 7:29am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi there
Yes I saw that name also
Why would that be?
My grandfather was originally from Sri Lanka
No idea when he arrived in the UK.

My grandfather was coloured so things may have been more difficult back then compared to today
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 7:44am
Paul,
Do you have either marriage certificate for FDV, if so, what did FDV offer for his fathers name?
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 8:47am
Hi Bert
I have absolutely nothing for FDV.
I've tried to look on Sri Lankan records but couldn't find anything.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 8:52am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi Bert
I have absolutely nothing for FDV.
I've tried to look on Sri Lankan records but couldn't find anything.

I will order FDV marriage certificate to Annie.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 10:08am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi Bert
I have absolutely nothing for FDV.
I've tried to look on Sri Lankan records but couldn't find anything.

I will order FDV marriage certificate to Annie.


I suspect you know, only order from here, GRO reg office

much cheaper than ordering from search sites like Ancestry, FMP, etc.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 11:10am
All I can find is a seamans record, 3 October, 1919, arriving at New York, SS Orca,

Percy K James, Ass Cook
Birth 8 June, 1896, Ceylon, British Father,
5 foot 6 inches, 10 stone.
Home Address, 67 Corporation Rd, Birkenhead.

FMP has seamen's records, 1835-1945, they have something on Percy Karolis James, perhaps a photo. I don't subscribe to FMP.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 1:10pm
Hi Bert
I can't believe what you've found.... amazing
Thank you so much!!!!!
Quick question,what is FMP?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 1:38pm
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi Bert
I can't believe what you've found.... amazing
Thank you so much!!!!!
Quick question,what is FMP?


Find My Past, it's a search site similar to Ancestry.com.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC7Y-VCW?q.anyDate.from=1896&q.givenName=percy%20karolis&q.surname=james

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC7Y-VCW?q.anyDate.from=1896&q.givenName=percy%20karolis&q.surname=james
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 2:18pm
Hi Bert
Thanks again.
My dad,his sister Adelaide and their half brother George only had DFV after Annie died in 1933.
I have records of my dad in Oswestry district cottage hospital in 1939 and Adelaide being in Hawerden.
I presume DFV could not cope with 3 children to look after.
I don't know when my aunty and dad were removed from DFV or when they returned baring in mind DFV remarried in 1939 to Dolly Keel.
Would they have separated families?
My mum used to tell me that my dad tried to enlist as a pilot during the war but he had a sutter so he failed the medical.
I have no idea what my dad did in the war.
My dads trade was an electrician which suggests he had to be academically sound.
Again no records of schooling in Birkenhead nor Oswestry.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 3:34pm
Paul,
Your Father is here in 1939,
Name: Frederick T Vanderwall
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Birth Date: 30 May 1925
Residence Date: 1939
Address: Meenghan Cottage, Upper Brook St
Residence Place: Oswestry, Shropshire, England
Occupation: At School
Also recorded is William J Farmer and his wife Alice Farmer. William's occupation was Caretaker.
I suspect your father was evacuated to this family at the outbreak of war.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 3:40pm
Also, I suspect Adelaide would have been evacuated.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 6:48pm
The 1939 register has George Francis Neish living at 12 Claughton Rd, date of birth, 10 July, 1917, occupation, Moulder.

Living with him was, Annie Jones, date of birth, 24 April, 1859, Widow.

Possibly grandmother.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 8:41pm
Thanks again.
Very interesting information.
I have made a rookie mistake of ordering the death cert for Annie from 1933.
I shall obtain the following:
Marriage cert DFV and Annie,1923:
Death cert Simon Neish,1919:
Death cert George Neish, 1939.
When you say get them from here,where is here?
Can it be posted to Australia?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 31st Dec 2021 9:18pm
Google, General Registry Office order online.

Yes, can be posted overseas.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 1st Jan 2022 11:49am
Happy New Year Bert
Just a couple of queries in relation to Simon Neish.
He died in 1919 after being married from 1916.
Would of been in the armed services and would his death of been related to the war or did the Spanish flu pay a factor?.
Where would be the best place to resource his military history if indeed he had one.
And why was he buried in Wallasy when comming from Birkenhead?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 1st Jan 2022 3:03pm
All the best, Paul.
Only a death certificate for Simon will show cause of death, his marriage certificate will show his occupation in 1916 or military service at the time if he had one.
I can't see any military records for Simon in the Ancestry collection, he may have been unfit for service or what I think more likely he was reserved occupation being a railway worker.
It appears from the burial records he was first in the grave plot and the cemetery likely to have been the choice of Annie Elizabeth, her preference over others.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd Jan 2022 8:47am
Thanks again Bert.
Quick question,where did you find the information on where Annie,Simon,and Geirge where buried?
I might be able to find a picture of the grave.

On a personal note Bert thank you so much for what you've found.i have got the ground work to dig further into my family,a family up until a couple of weeks ago I new nothing about.
Thank you.

Annie's parents and grandparents where from Mountain Ash,South Wales.
Any idea why they would of moved to Birkenhead?
Was the coal industry in decline possibly.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd Jan 2022 9:38am
Wallasey cemetery

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd Jan 2022 9:45am
Originally Posted by bert1
Wallasey cemetery

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog ... %20Library


Click link,
Enter Wallasey in Place box, choose cemeteries, records will only open with camera icon.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd Jan 2022 9:55am
Paul,
Are you certain of the Mountain Ash family, I suggested them as a possibility worthy of further investigation, I haven't seen any conclusive proof.

If they were connected to the mining industry at that time period, it certainly wasn't in decline.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd Jan 2022 12:37pm
Thanks Bert.
Taken on board your comments re Mountain Ash.
I shall delve further.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd Jan 2022 3:48pm
Would you think the GRO would have a copy of FDV birth certificate even though he may of been born in Ceylon?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd Jan 2022 6:44pm
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Would you think the GRO would have a copy of FDV birth certificate even though he may of been born in Ceylon?


I've checked overseas births where I can and a friend has also checked on a different search site to mine, nothing, so I don't think you will find anything at GRO.

I've sent you a private message, click on flashing envelope, top of page.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd Jan 2022 7:52am
Thanks again for information.
Presumably there would be a photograph of an marriage back in 1916 and 1923.
Is that likely and would it be worthwhile conducting a search for who would of taken them from a company perspective.
When my mum and dad where married in 1950 they used Fairs Cameras I think located in Rock Ferry I think.
Very keen to try and find any photograph of Annie.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd Jan 2022 8:26am
The best chance of getting a photograph is from a family descendant, there's very little chance of finding out what photographer or firm took the photo's, if any. Normally you need a photograph to identify the photographer by their stamp.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd Jan 2022 3:47pm
Hi again.
Where would I find my dads school history/military.
From 1939 to 1950 there is a gap.
I think he went to the Birkenhead Institute?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd Jan 2022 4:19pm
https://www.wirral.gov.uk/libraries-and-archives/wirral-archives-service

https://www.wirral.gov.uk/libraries...service/documents-we-hold/school-records
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd Jan 2022 4:28pm
WW2 and that era, Military records are held at the National Archives, also National Service records.
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Jan 2022 10:53am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi again.
Where would I find my dads school history/military.
From 1939 to 1950 there is a gap.
I think he went to the Birkenhead Institute?



There is a site on the internet for Birkenhead Institute where there are photos of school pupils for years 1943 1946 1949 and a contact who may have some info that helps [email protected]
click link
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Jan 2022 1:49pm
School leaving age was 15 or 16, he would have left school in summer 1940 or 41 being born May 1925.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Jan 2022 6:50pm
Originally Posted by bert1
School leaving age was 15 or 16, he would have left school in summer 1940 or 41 being born May 1925.


Leaving age was raised from 14 to 15 in 1944.
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Jan 2022 7:23pm
I don't know if you went on the BI site I posted, but in several of the photos (1930s prefect pics if you hover over the face of one of them it gives you the name of that person.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Jan 2022 7:51pm
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by bert1
School leaving age was 15 or 16, he would have left school in summer 1940 or 41 being born May 1925.


Leaving age was raised from 14 to 15 in 1944.


If you look through the 1939 register you see multiple children at school born in 1923 and 1924, the register compiled October ish 1939.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Jan 2022 9:50pm
Thanks Bert
Looked on BI link and I think it may be missing relevant years in relation to school photos!
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Jan 2022 9:33am
Hi again
Found a photograph of my dad on the BI site under magazines,summer 1939.
My dad was in the boxing club.
First photograph in.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Jan 2022 9:50am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi again
Found a photograph of my dad on the BI site under magazines,summer 1939.
My dad was in the boxing club.
First photograph in.


Well done, and thanks to Derek reminding us of the site.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Jan 2022 7:51pm
Having barely read some of the magazine articles it was interesting to read the pupils and teachers take on the looming conflict but I couldn't help notice reference to " our return from Oswestry ".
Would it of been the school to organise the evacuation of children on not the parents?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Jan 2022 8:39pm
https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/the-evacuated-children-of-the-second-world-war
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 6th Jan 2022 8:31pm
Hi again
Having real problems with the burials of Annie,Simon,George.
Rake lane Cemetery have no record of any burials with the names of Vanderwall or Neish.
Can you screen shot me the information you have in this regard.
Cheers
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th Jan 2022 5:12am
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-992H-FH2F?cat=1027047
George Francis Neish, copy and paste above into browser.

You might have to register and sign in to family search.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th Jan 2022 5:21am
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-992H-FH19?cat=1027047

Annie Elizabeth Vanderwall
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th Jan 2022 5:26am
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-992H-F4R8?i=645&cat=1027047

Simon Neish
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th Jan 2022 5:56am
The 1921 census was released yesterday on FMP, to view a record it costs £2.50 or £3.50 depending on what you want to view. I can fiddle some information from it without paying.

Annie E Neish, Annie Jones, George F Neish and 1 other were in the same household.

AEN was born 1894, Oswestry, Shropshire.
AJ was born 1859, Cheshire
GFN was born 1917, Birkenhead.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 8th Jan 2022 10:55am
Hi again
Found the graves....thank you and an addition
Thomas Jones,Annie's father died 1919 aged 60.
Husband and father dying the same year.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 8th Jan 2022 11:14am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Hi again
Found the graves....thank you and an addition
Thomas Jones,Annie's father died 1919 aged 60.
Husband and father dying the same year.


Yes, buried in same grave.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 9th Jan 2022 12:54am
I've managed to contact in the UK my cousin Annette who is Adelaide's daughter.
She has given me plenty to think about as well as sightings of more photos and documents.
She has told me that her mum remembered Annie Vanderwall funeral as being quite an elaborate affair with horse drawn carriage.
How common would that of been in 1933 and where do you think the best possible place to find anything in the newspaper about the funeral if there is anything.
Thanks again
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 9th Jan 2022 7:05am
You may find an obituary in the Birkenhead News, unlikely there's a report on the funeral unless she was a dignitary, celebrity or victim of crime. No doubt in the1930s there still would have been plenty of undertakers to offer that service who never had motorised vehicles. In the early 50s I still have memories of the milkman's horse and cart.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 9th Jan 2022 7:32am
Birkenhead News only available online up to 1920.
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/titles/birkenhead-news
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Jan 2022 9:37am
Hi again
While searching the Cemetery records of section 15c grave 22 I have found an entry reading thus;
Buried March 21st 1940,Freda Lesley Muir,aged 4 months
4 Church Crescent ,Seacombe
Image 348 on microfilm.
I have no idea who this relates to or why.
Any ideas?
Cheers
Paul
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Jan 2022 9:52am
Name: Freda L Muir
Registration Date: Oct 1939
[Nov 1939]
[Dec 1939]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Wallasey
Inferred County: Merseyside
Mother's Maiden Name: Kell
Volume Number: 8a
Page Number: 1390

Marriage,
John A Muir, Elsie Kell, Birkenhead, 1931

Elsie Kell related to Doris Kell.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Jan 2022 12:18pm
Elsie and Doris are sisters, Birth registration, Elsie, 1912, Birkenhead, Doris, 1916, Birkenhead.

Mothers maiden name, Thomas.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Jan 2022 1:30pm
Can you provide the link for Landican for Frederick D Vanderwall and curious if Annie Vanderwall, s mother Annie Jones is buried at Landican as I think Rake Lane would of been full
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Jan 2022 1:43pm
Landican records available on Family search stop, 1962.

Do you know when Annie Jones died?
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Jan 2022 1:48pm
Annie Jones was still alive in 1939 living at 12 Claughton Road with George Neish.
There are two possibilities.
First AJ died in 1940 and second 1946
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Jan 2022 1:59pm
Of all the Annie Jones that died around that time, the below is the only one with the correct age, born 1859.
JONES Annie age80 Birkenhead 8a 1215, December Quarter, 1939.

Just to add, though Annie is on the 1939 register, she may have died just after registration.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 15th Jan 2022 12:43am
Hi again
Can't find where Annie senior is buried.
Would she of been buried in Landican by 1940?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 15th Jan 2022 5:37am
.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 15th Jan 2022 5:48am
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/1027092?availability=Family%20History%20Library
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 21st Jan 2022 2:52pm
Hi again
Any idea where I could find old photos of Neptune street if any exist.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 22nd Jan 2022 6:54am
Photo's available at Birkenhead Library, you will have to email them and see how they can help, I luckily came across 3, there may be more.
BWD 379
BWD 380
BWD 381
page 138.

https://www.wirral.gov.uk/sites/def...irkenhead%20library%20-%20Feb%202020.pdf
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 1:26am
Hi again
We've come across another name on the 1921census living with aAnnie senior and junior,George and Florence G Barton aged 20 working at Lever Bros.
We think Florence is Annie Neish,s( my nan)sisters daughter!
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 1:28am
Could you cast an eye over please.
Ta
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 6:58am
What other information is available for Florence G Barton, married, single, where born etc?
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 9:05am
All I have is that she is the granddaughter listed on the 1921 census as the granddaughter of Annie senior.
1921census tells me she was 20 years old and born in Tranmere.
Can't see where their residing in 1921.
She was a factory worker at Lever Bros.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 11:01am
It's very likely the following birth,

Florence Gladys Barton Walsh, birth registered, September Quarter, 1901, Birkenhead, no mothers maiden name recorded.

Illegitimate child, no father present at birth registration, unmarried mother.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 11:28am
Wow
Could Florence's mother be Annie Jones daughter and be Annie Neish sister.... could Barton Walsh be the father's name.

Florence is according to the 1921census granddaughter of Annie senior.

Do you know if Annie senior had more than one daughter (Annie Neish)?
Do you know what happened to Florence.
We think she may have died in 1947?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 12:03pm
Normally the registrations at the GRO, if no mothers maiden name is showing, the mothers name is the same as the baby's surname. I would say the mothers name is Walsh.
The following marriage must be of interest
Name William Commander
Sex Male
Age 22
Father's Name William Commander
Marriage Date 06 May 1922
Marriage Place St Peter, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Age (Formatted) 22y
Spouse's Name Florence Gladys Walsh Burton

Needs looking into further.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 12:22pm
Thanks again

Slightly confused as I can't see the link between Annie senior declaration that Florence is her granddaughter
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 5th Feb 2022 1:03pm
There's not enough information available online.
To find out Florence Gladys mothers name you will have to purchase the birth certificate from the GRO.
Don't forget an illegitimate granddaughter is still a granddaughter, so even knowing the mothers name may not help if she never married Annie's son for example. It's all a game of chance.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 6th Feb 2022 7:51am
I'm having zero luck with trying to find Annie senior and her family on the 1900 census and the 1911 census.
She only appears on the 1921 census.
She was married to Thomas C Jones.
Both were born in abt 1859.
Annie E Jones born in 1894.
With recent findings there may be an older brother who may be the possible father of Florence.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 6th Feb 2022 8:38am
How do you know his name was Thomas C Jones?

Could be just a coincidence, however worthy of further investigation.

1911 census,
25 Mersey St, Seacombe.

Thomas Jones 50, Bagilt, Coal Merchant.
Anne Jones 51
Anne Elizabeth Jones 13, born, Oswestry.
Edward Vickers 40
John Walsh 29, Birkenhead.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 6th Feb 2022 9:14am
Thomas C Jones died in 1919 with confirmation of his name on buriel register and is in Rake Lane with Annie Vanderwall, George,Simon Neish.

The ages of the 1911 census don't quite match up and there is no son.

Annie Neish was always called Annie and this is confirmed by the copy of her death certificate stating her name and her age at death being 37 in 1933.

The name of Walsh showing here is strange.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 6th Feb 2022 11:45am
There's no "C" in his name, burial records or death registration.

His occupation is needed from his daughters marriage certificate to Simon Neish.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 6th Feb 2022 12:18pm
Just checking out Thomas occupation from my relative.

Scenario could be Annie senior was previously married to a Walsh and who had a son John Walsh and the first husband died which allowed Annie senior remarried Thomas Jones and they had Annie my grandmother.
Then John Walsh could be Florence's father and her mothers surname was Burton hence both names on the 1921 census.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 6th Feb 2022 12:34pm
Thomas occupation in 1911 is a joiner.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 6th Feb 2022 12:35pm
Sorry,on Annie's,Simons wedding cert Thomas is a joiner.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th Feb 2022 8:28am
Can't see anything conclusive for Thomas Jones, Joiner and family.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 16th Feb 2022 6:47am
Hi again.
I've sighted various death certificates and I'm wondering if you could help with tracing Annie E Vanderwall nee Neish mother also called Annie Jones.
She has been present at all the deaths but I cannot find for certain where she is buried,year of death.
She was living in 12 Claughton Road in 1939.

Also,Simon Neish died of pneumonia in 1919.
Do you think he would of been in the military prior.
His occupation at death was a dock labourer.

His son,my uncle George Neish died in 1939 of pulmonary tuberculosis.
His death certificate states his occupation was moulder-boiler maker.
He was 22 at death.
Would that job require an apprenticeship and best guess His most likely work place?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 16th Feb 2022 7:57am
George would have served an apprenticeship to become a Moulder Boilermaker, difficult to say where he most likely worked as there were many firms who made or repaired boilers.

I previously mentioned Annie Jones, death registered December 1939 aged 80, Birkenhead.
TB is highly infectious and it's possible she suffered along with George. You will have to purchase the death certificate to be sure. I can't find her burial online.

Can't find any military records for Simon Neish, whatever he was doing when he got married to Annie E will be on the marriage certificate
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 16th Feb 2022 8:13am
It's possible the Annie Jones who died December Qtr 1939 is buried at St Mary's cemetery, Birkenhead. The records are held at Birkenhead Library, they are on film and shouldn't be hard to find. look at research request, link.

https://www.wirral.gov.uk/libraries-and-archives/find-library/birkenhead-central-library
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 24th Feb 2022 10:29am
Hi again

Looking into Simon Neish family.
Trying to find living relatives to source photographs.
Have you any information on his family
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 24th Feb 2022 1:07pm
Out of respect for their privacy I don't get involved in tracing living relatives, hopefully they will see this and get in touch.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd Apr 2022 9:36am
Hi Bert
Hope you're well.
Update as follows:
I have located the grave of my nan in Rake Lane Cemetery and have a picture.
I have also been intouch with the Neish family and I have been given a photograph of Simon Neish Annie's first husband.
Do you know anything about Annie's family.
I know her father was also buried in the grave in Rake Lane and died in 1919.
We think Annie E had a brother who may of been the father of Florence?
I know nothing about the Jones side of my family other than they originally came from Oswestry.
It seems a strange coincidence that my dad was registered in 1938 in Oswestry also.
Was that too early for evacuation prior to ww2.
My aunty Adelaide was also registered in Fflint I think in 1938.
My goal is to find photograph evidence of Annie E Jones.
Hope you can assist.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Apr 2022 6:27am
How do you know your dad was in Oswestry in 1938?
Evacuation of children was 1939.

It's very likely the father of Florence Gladys was Burton, even though she was registered at birth Florence Gladys Burton Walsh. on the GRO no mothers maiden name was recorded which means no father present. She later married William Commander as Burton and later registered 2 children, William Commander, 1922 and Charles Arthur Commander, 1926 using Burton as her maiden name. It doesn't appear she named her father at her marriage. The only way to find her mothers name is to purchase her birth certificate or a record of her baptism/christening if she had one.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Apr 2022 12:28pm
Thank you.
How does that tie up with Florence being a granddaughter in the 1921 census if her father was a Burton?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th Apr 2022 1:25pm
I'm only suggesting it's very likely her fathers name was Burton with her using that name in later years. You need to purchase her birth certificate from the GRO to find her mothers name and other details, from that information it will help us to proceed. We still don't know Annie Jones (Grandmother) maiden name or if she was married more than once. Finding Florence Gladys mothers name may help with that.

Here is what used to happen, Florence Gladys mother went to register the birth alone, with no marriage certificate or child's father present she was unable to register the child using the father's surname. Some registrars prompted the mother to include the fathers surname into the forenames. The child would have to have a surname, in this case Walsh was used, the mothers name.

Other reasons surnames appear as forenames, they wanted to use ancestors names, grandparents surnames, etc which is very traditional in Scotland for example. So, Burton could be a relatives name though I do think it's the father.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 12th Apr 2022 11:02pm
Hi again
I'm looking to find more information on Annie's parents Anne and Thomas.
I know about Thomas death in 1919 and where he is buried and the probable death of Anne in 1939.
What I don't know or Ancestry can give me is when Thomas and Annie where married and did they have any further children other than Annie.
I would also like to find out Annie seniors maiden name.
Can you assist
Thank you
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Apr 2022 5:51am
Far to many Thomas Jones married an Ann/Anne/ Annie in the suspected time period to even hazard a guess. Normally a maiden name is picked up from the children's birth certificates, there isn't a birth registered in Oswestry for Annie Elizabeth at the time to match her age at death.

As I suggested previously, you need to get Florence Gladys birth certificate in a hope it has clues to help you progress, it may not but unfortunately family history can be costly because all records are not online and sometimes you have to take a punt and hope it can lead you somewhere.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Apr 2022 6:50am
Thank you.
Have you the pages and index etc for Florence Gladys Burton Walsh as I will order her birth and death certificate from the GRO
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th Apr 2022 7:21am
Birth,
WALSH, FLORENCE GLADYS BARTON -
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 509

At this point I wouldn't bother with the death cert as it's unlikely to have information to help, save your pennies.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/menu.asp
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 14th Apr 2022 12:36am
Can you please provide the details for me to obtain the birth and death certificates of Florence and her two children.
I always want to see the reason why they died young.
Thanks
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 14th Apr 2022 5:19am
COMMANDER, WILLIAM mmn,BURTON
GRO Reference: 1922 D Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 731
Not sure when William died, if he has.

Name: Florence G Commander
Death Age: 26
Birth Date: abt 1902
Registration Date: Apr 1928
[May 1928]
[Jun 1928]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 627

Birth
Name: Charles A Commander
Registration Date: Jul 1926
[Aug 1926]
[Sep 1926]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Merseyside
Mother's Maiden Name: Burton
Volume Number: 8a
Page Number: 733

Death

Name: Charles A Commander
Death Age: 0
Birth Date: abt 1927
Registration Date: Jan 1927
[Feb 1927]
[Mar 1927]
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 784
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 21st Apr 2022 8:49pm
Hi
I've sighted the birth certificate of Florence.
No named father and her mothers name is Margaret Walsh
Florence's name is Florence Gladys Barton on the birth certificate.
Florence was born at 21 Fairfax Road Tranmere but her mother Margaret lived at number 15 Fairfax Road.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 22nd Apr 2022 10:31am
The 1901 census which was taken prior to the birth of Florence G has 21 Fairfax Rd unoccupied and the family below living at 15 Fairfax Rd.
James Atherton 37
Mary Atherton 37
James Atherton 15
Joseph Atherton 11
Agnes Atherton 9
Mary Atherton 6
Edith M Atherton 4
Alfred Atherton 8/12

There's no way of telling online if that family was still there when Florence G was born or who occupied 21 at that time, I'll look to see if there is any connection with the family. I suspect Margaret went to have her baby at 21 so she was in safe hands, with someone experienced in childbirth.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 22nd Apr 2022 4:31pm
For Annie Jones to be the grandmother of Florence G she must be the mother of Margaret Walsh and therefore once had the surname Walsh.
The family below is where Margaret Walsh, mother of Florence G comes from. William Walsh married Ann Williams, 1878. Below are just some of the children they had, if you find the census forms you will get the complete family. The interesting part is Ann Williams was born to Rodger and Isabella Williams and her christening date was 24 April, 1859, it can't be just a coincidence that Annie Jones, 12 Claughton Rd, 1939 register gives that birth date. I suspect Ann/Annie Williams/Jones was born a sickly child and wasn't sure to live, parents used to have them christened as soon as. Further investigation is needed but I don't believe Thomas Jones and Ann Walsh married, can't find a marriage as yet.

William Walsh26Ann Walsh22Margaret Walsh2Isabella M. Walsh, John William Walsh.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 22nd Apr 2022 4:43pm
Family in 1891 with transcription error,

William Welsh
37 Head
Ann Welsh 32 Wife,
Margaret Welsh
12 Daughter
Isabella M Welsh
10 Daughter
John W Welsh
9 Son
Frederick Welsh
7 Son
Charles Andres
24 Boarder
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 22nd Apr 2022 9:05pm
Wow.
Thank you
The Barton name that Florence had at birth is probably the father's name?
So Margaret would be my grandmothers half sister.
William Walsh was Annie seniors husband?
He died at some point and Thomas Jones and Annie Walsh became a couple but not married.
They only had one child,Annie my grandmother.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 23rd Apr 2022 6:22am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Wow.
Thank you
The Barton name that Florence had at birth is probably the father's name?
So Margaret would be my grandmothers half sister.
William Walsh was Annie seniors husband?
He died at some point and Thomas Jones and Annie Walsh became a couple but not married.
They only had one child,Annie my grandmother.


Barton or Burton is very likely the fathers name, I favour Burton as Florence used this in adult life, Barton could be a transcription error. William Walsh may have died or Annie just parted from him and lived with Thomas as man and wife, it could be William was still alive and Annie did not want to become a bigamist, hence no marriage found.
Margaret and Annie Elizabeth are very likely to be half sisters, however proof would be on the birth certificate of Annie E which appears not to be easy to find. I'm wondering because they never got married Annie E wasn't registered.

I don't think it would do any harm taking another look at the 1911 Wallasey family, Thomas Jones, Anne Jones, Anne Elizabeth Jones, John Walsh, Mersey St.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 23rd Apr 2022 9:06pm
Good shout about the Wallasey family .
How is that done in terms of their details.
I will get certificates for them if you can provide details.
Your reference to Annie senior possibly being a sickly child is for what reason.
Annies senior parents Isabella and Rodger any more information?
Do we know how many of Annie seniors children survived?
The 1921 census mentioned Florence being a granddaughter but both parents deceased.
Any idea when Margaret died and does it suggest that the father of Florence was still around in some capacity because how would anyone know when the father died.
Granted,it would of been fairly easy to find out that her father had died I suggest.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 24th Apr 2022 4:51am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean

Your reference to Annie senior possibly being a sickly child is for what reason.


The birth date on the 39 register and Baptism match, 24 April 1859. It's either Annie didn't know her birth date and accessed her christening records when younger and used that date as her birth date or as I suspect she was born and not expected to live and was baptised at the earliest opportunity, i.e. Home Baptism.
A Home or Private Baptism was carried out in the home and still recorded in the church records, some churches recorded this by putting a "P" in the column, not done with Annie.
Infant Mortality being what it was, the most important thing for the parents apart from the child's survival was the child being accepted in to the church.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 24th Apr 2022 5:51am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean


The 1921 census mentioned Florence being a granddaughter but both parents deceased.
Any idea when Margaret died and does it suggest that the father of Florence was still around in some capacity because how would anyone know when the father died.
Granted,it would of been fairly easy to find out that her father had died I suggest.


Margaret's christening for further reference.
Name Margaret Walsh
Christening Date 16 Feb 1879
Christening Place Higher Bebington
Father's Name William Walsh
Mother's Name Annie Walsh

It's unlikely ever to find the fathers name or details. There isn't a death in Birkenhead or Cheshire between 1901 and 1921 for a Margaret Walsh that matches her birth year. There's also the possibility that Margaret married after the birth of Florence, so that needs to be considered.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 24th Apr 2022 11:48am
The 1916 directory shows John William Jones, Joiner, at 11 Neptune St, this address is the same for Thomas Jones buried 1919, Rake Lane.

Paul, any idea who he is?
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 24th Apr 2022 8:57pm
Mmm,
Don't know.
Maybe Thomas's brother?
Neptune Street and Jones surname seem to go hand in hand.
Thomas was also a joiner by trade according to Simon and Annie's wedding certificate.
Has he been mentioned on any census ?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 25th Apr 2022 4:18am
John William Jones might be on 1921 census which I haven't got access to.

What was Annie's address on the marriage certificate?
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 25th Apr 2022 9:48am
When she married Simon,11 Neptune Street
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 25th Apr 2022 1:53pm
A bit more fiddling with the 1921 census, Annie, Annie E, George F and Florence G were residing at 11 Neptune St. It seems number 11 had 2 other families recorded there.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 5:34am
Is that 2 families all up or two other with Annie etc making three
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 5:57am
3 families. 11 Neptune St.

Schedule 338, Alfred U, Sylvia Annie, Sylvia Amy and 1 other
Schedule 339, George, Bessie Maud, Edward.
Schedule 340, Annie, etc.

Crazy, the 1911 census shows it only had 4 rooms.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 6:15am
It did.
I went there as a child with my dad to visit Dolly and DFV.
Just a regular terraced house!!!
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 6:16am
I presume they where all living there and not boarders.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 6:44am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
I presume they where all living there and not boarders.


No way of knowing without opening it up.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 11:30am
The two witnesses at Simon and Annie's wedding where William Jones and Rose Minnie Jones.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 11:35am
The wedding certificate of Annie and my grandfather has Annie living at 227 Brook Street and my grandfather living at 229 Brook street.
This was 1.12.1929
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 11:36am
Sorry 1923
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 11:41am
Simon's death in 1919 has his residence 11 Neptune Street as does Annie E in 1933.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 12:50pm
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
The two witnesses at Simon and Annie's wedding where William Jones and Rose Minnie Jones.


1911 census, 3 Ellis St, Seacombe

George Harley Jones 37, Bn, Bagilt North Wales, Joiner.
Elizabeth Ann Jones 40
John Harley Jones 17
Rose Minnie Jones 15
Elizabeth Ami Jones 11
Albert Edward Jones 8
Robert George Jones 6
Ferdierk Charles Jones 4/12
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 1:02pm
Parents of George Harley Jones, (Baptism), Enoch Jones and Anne Jones.

1881 Census, all born, Bagilt, Flintshire, North Wales,

Enoch Jones 56, Joiner
Ann Jones 48
Thomas Jones 21, Joiner
Margaret Jones 16
Robert William Jones 14
Mary Jones 11
George Bayley Jones 8, I think this should be Harley.

The above Thomas Jones I think is the Thomas Jones, Died 1919, 11 Neptune St.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 26th Apr 2022 1:53pm
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Good shout about the Wallasey family .
How is that done in terms of their details.


This family is beginning to look more interesting, even though there are some discrepancies. Occupation of Coal Merchant rather than Joiner, people did change their occupation at times, so not concerned. Anne Elizabeth's age?

Thomas Jones 50 Bagilt Flintshire, Coal Merchant
Anne Jones 51 Bebington
Anne Elizabeth Jones 13 Oswestry
Edward Vickers 40 Hoylake
John Walsh 29 Birkenhead

1911 census, 25 Mersey St, Wallasey.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 5:18am
Annie's death in 1933
Age 37
Born 1896/1897
Not sure if the Mersey St Annie is quite right for age but it's close.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 5:22am
Thomas Jones died in 1919 so his death age is also very close to the Mersey St Thomas.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 5:26am
If Annie senior died after George in 1939 then the Mersey Street Annie is also looking promising.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 6:04am
We now know where the family originates and their history, the 1911 census is not that important as far as that goes, however, another way of looking at it, if the Mersey St family are not connected to the Neptune St family, who are they?
I've tried to make connections to other families and I can't. Annie E age could just be a simple mistake made when filling the form in.
What age has she give on her marriage certificate?
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 8:50am
Just received Florence's death certificate.
TB again.
Died at 56 Church Road Tranmere 4.6.1928.
William her husband lived at 49 Livingstone Street.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 9:06am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Just received Florence's death certificate.
TB again.
Died at 56 Church Road Tranmere 4.6.1928.
William her husband lived at 49 Livingstone Street.


56 Church Rd was Birkenhead Workhouse Infirmary, later St Catherine's Hospital.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 9:12am
Should mention they had a sanatorium, = TB
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 10:02am
Annie's age when she married Simon according to the certificate was 22.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 11:21am
Originally Posted by bert1
Family in 1891 with transcription error,

William Welsh
37 Head
Ann Welsh 32 Wife,
Margaret Welsh
12 Daughter
Isabella M Welsh
10 Daughter
John W Welsh
9 Son
Frederick Welsh
7 Son
Charles Andres
24 Boarder


I believe this is the family in the 1901 census at Oswestry using Annie's maiden name, Williams, probably trying to stay under the radar after leaving William Walsh, compare with the census above.

Thomas Williams 41, Joiner, Flintshire
Anne Williams 41, Birkenhead
Margaret Williams 22, Birkenhead
Bella Williams 21, Birkenhead
John Williams 20, Birkenhead
Frederick Williams 18, Birkenhead
Ann E Williams 4, Oswestry.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 12:06pm
This is the birth registration, the fact that the mothers maiden name is recorded is because she declared she is a married women or the father has attended, I believe Thomas Jones is using Annie's surname to avoid detection or avoid the embarrassment of just living together, at that period of time it was frowned upon and kept quiet.

WILLIAMS, ANNIE ELIZABETH mmn, WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in OSWESTRY Volume 06A Page 624

I don't see any benefit in purchasing this certificate.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 12:12pm
It's funny isn't it that according to Florence's birth certificate 1901 that her mothers name was Margaret Walsh but the same years census says Williams and she was pregnant with Florence or had just given birth.
The date of 1901census?
The two half sisters Margaret and Annie were both born when their parents were not married also.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 12:20pm
The 1901 census was 31 March, Margaret had no say or any of the children in the information forwarded, the Head of the household is responsible for that.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 12:22pm
Name: Annie Elizabeth Williams
Birth Date: 11 Sep 1897
Baptism Date: 1 Oct 1897
Baptism Place: Oswestry, Holy Trinity, Shropshire, England
Religion: Anglican
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 1:19pm
At what point did Annie become Jones.
Presumably Thomas and Annie married at some pint.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 1:45pm
I'm not sure Thomas and Annie ever did marry, It seems to me she wasn't a widow and would have to become a bigamist to marry. I imagine she became Jones when she thought it was safe to do so. The problem with census forms and information on them, it only covers one day.
Margaret Walsh wasn't illegitimate, William Walsh was married to Ann Williams when she was born. Annie E could be classed as illegitimate because her parents don't appear to have been married at the time of her birth.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 27th Apr 2022 8:21pm
For legal paperwork for example Annie's marriage to Simon then the Jones surname was used as was the case with Florence's birth certificate as Margaret name of Walsh being used not Williams.

Did Annie you have to show a birth certificate at her wedding?
The move from Mersey Street to Neptune Street occured roughly?
The Jones who was mentioned as a joiner and at Neptune Street could he of been Thomas's son also from a previous relationship?
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Apr 2022 4:36am
Interesting post on here from 2011 regarding 11 Neptune Street and the Humpries family.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Apr 2022 4:37am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean


Did Annie you have to show a birth certificate at her wedding?
The move from Mersey Street to Neptune Street occured roughly?
The Jones who was mentioned as a joiner and at Neptune Street could he of been Thomas's son also from a previous relationship?


There wasn't a legal requirement to show a birth certificate before a marriage, however had she given her correct age she would have been classed as a minor and would have had to have her fathers permission to marry. There's no way of knowing if her father approved or not.

The move from Mersey St to Neptune St between 1911 and 1919 or perhaps earlier if Annie E married Niesh from that address ?

John William Jones, Neptune St, possibly from a previous marriage, difficult to say exactly who he is.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Apr 2022 6:15am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Interesting post on here from 2011 regarding 11 Neptune Street and the Humpries family.


Where?
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Apr 2022 6:22am
Date of post [email protected] posted by Pamela 185 on Wirral Forums.
My wife found it by pure chance when searching Neptune Street
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Apr 2022 6:30am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Date of post [email protected] posted by Pamela 185 on Wirral Forums.
My wife found it by pure chance when searching Neptune Street

Ok found it, was aware of that family on the census.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Apr 2022 9:05am
Name: Isabella Mary Walsh, Spouse, William Jones
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 23
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Year: abt 1880
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1903
Marriage Place: Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears: Liverpool
Fathers,
Thomas Walsh, Joiner.
Robert Jones, Bootmaker.

The above is likely to be the witness at Annie Elizabeth's marriage. Note, Thomas Walsh, father. I've come across this on many occasions. Isabella not being a widow has to have a father with the same surname, it appears she doesn't want to recognise her real father and has used Thomas Jones first name and occupation. There isn't another Isabella Mary Walsh born anywhere 1880+/-2years.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Apr 2022 12:55pm
Thanks Bert

Messed up one of the certificates.
William Commander b 1922 died around 1939.
Have you reference please.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 28th Apr 2022 1:09pm
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Thanks Bert

Messed up one of the certificates.
William Commander b 1922 died around 1939.
Have you reference please.


Name: Age at Death (in years):
COMMANDER, WILLIAM 16
GRO Reference: 1939 M Quarter in ALED Volume 11B Page 431
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 1:08am
Thanks Bert
Couple of queries.
1.Could William have left Annie senior rather than Annie leaving g him
2.Where William and Annie married and if yes when.
3.Is there any information on the rest of the Walsh family
4.How and why did Annie E get to be born in Oswestry
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 2:19am
I think I owe it to Annie seniors memory to find out how she died and her resting place.
Could you provide references for her death.
Annie has been around for a lot of deaths in the family so it's right and fitting that I pursue all avenues to see who was there for Annie when she died.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 4:44am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Thanks Bert
Couple of queries.
1.Could William have left Annie senior rather than Annie leaving g him
2.Where William and Annie married and if yes when.
3.Is there any information on the rest of the Walsh family
4.How and why did Annie E get to be born in Oswestry


1, Impossible to know.
2, 1878, St Andrews Church, Bebington.
3, There will be plenty if researched, William was the son of John Walsh and Anna Tobin, likely to have married in Ireland.
4, Family were living there, 1901 census is Oswestry.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 4:47am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
I think I owe it to Annie seniors memory to find out how she died and her resting place.
Could you provide references for her death.
Annie has been around for a lot of deaths in the family so it's right and fitting that I pursue all avenues to see who was there for Annie when she died.

Matches year of birth,

JONES, ANNIE 80
GRO Reference: 1939 D Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 1215
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 5:29am
Thanks
Sorry,I wasn't specific.
The children of William and Annie that is Isabella Frederick John and Margaret.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 5:47am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Thanks
Sorry,I wasn't specific.
The children of William and Annie that is Isabella Frederick John and Margaret.


Yes as you will see in the 1891 census with William and Annie and later in the 1901 census, Oswestry, with Thomas and Annie (Williams)
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 5:54am
Have you a date of William and Annie's wedding as is there a divorce anywhere?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 6:17am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Have you a date of William and Annie's wedding as is there a divorce anywhere?


Not the exact day, church records not online.

Marriage
Name: William Walsh, Spouse, Ann Williams
Registration Year: 1878
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District: Wirral
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 560

Unlikely to be a divorce, unaffordable to most working class people in that time period.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 10:17am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
The wedding certificate of Annie and my grandfather has Annie living at 227 Brook Street and my grandfather living at 229 Brook street.
This was 1.12.1929


1930 Directory.
227+229 Brook St, Mrs Harriet Shakeshaft, Shopkeeper.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 12:09pm
Was Annie E living at 227 Brook St in 1923 prior to her marriage and do we know who was living in 11 Neptune Street
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 29th Apr 2022 12:54pm
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Was Annie E living at 227 Brook St in 1923 prior to her marriage and do we know who was living in 11 Neptune Street

Neither of the above streets are complete in the 1923 directory, those numbers are not recorded.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 2nd May 2022 11:47pm
Which register do I access to find out if the Walsh children had any children.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd May 2022 6:05am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Which register do I access to find out if the Walsh children had any children.


You need to find the marriages first, if any, and where they are on the 1911 census.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd May 2022 6:18am
1911 census,
4 New Ferry Rd, New Ferry, Birkenhead.


Name Age
Robert Jones 63
Eliza Jones 52
William Jones 30, son.
Martha Jones 24
Hannah Jones 22
Elizabeth Jones 18
George Oswald Porritt 72
Joseph Burkey 24
Isabella Mary Jones 30, daughter in law
Florence Jones 6, granddaughter,

William Jones married to Isabella Mary, Florence, daughter.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd May 2022 6:45am
Marriage,

Name: Frederick Walsh/Martha Ann Williams
Registration Year: 1909
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration District: Birkenhead
Inferred County: Cheshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 1100
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd May 2022 6:48am
1911 census,
45 Moorland Rd, Birkenhead,
Frederick Walsh 26
Martha Walsh 26
Freda Walsh 1
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd May 2022 6:51am

WALSH, FREDA MAY, mmn, WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1909 S Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 522
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 3rd May 2022 8:51am
John William Walsh and sister Margaret Walsh, I can't find conclusive proof either of them married or had children other than Florence Gladys we know about.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th May 2022 6:27am
Thanks again.
I've sighted more certificates.
Annie senior died in 1939 less than a week after George and on Christmas Eve.
She had fallen and had caused internal complications.Cause of death according to the coroner was misadventure.
Charles A Commander died of pneumonia aged 6 months Death date 11 February 1927.He died at 56 Church Street. They were living at 10 Neptune Street
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th May 2022 9:19am
Can I obtain a copy of the coroner's report.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 4th May 2022 9:34am
https://www.wirral.gov.uk/libraries...rvice/documents-we-hold/coroners-records
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th May 2022 8:53am
Did you mention that Annie senior was buried at Flaybrick?
Any idea where Margaret Isabella Florence and her children where buried
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th May 2022 9:39am
Florence, Flaybrick.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8924-P9Z?i=748&cat=1027117
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th May 2022 9:56am
Possible deaths,
Deaths Mar 1964
JONES, ISABELLA M 83 WIRRAL 10A 828
Deaths June 1963
Walsh, Margaret, 84, Birkenhead, 10a 34

Possibly buried at Landican cemetery, records stop online, 1962.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 7th May 2022 9:59am
Annie snr is not at any of the cemeteries that are available online, possibly buried at St Mary's Birkenhead, records at Birkenhead Library as previously mentioned.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 8th May 2022 6:57am
1921 census had Florence living with Annie senior as granddaughter as both her parents deceased?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 8th May 2022 7:20am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
1921 census had Florence living with Annie senior as granddaughter as both her parents deceased?


That information was not recorded because she was over 15, she would have been recorded as single, only 15 and under had status of parents recorded, father or mother dead or both.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 8th May 2022 8:52am
Why would Margaret not of had Florence living with her in 1921?
I know there are lots of scenarios for that situation.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 8th May 2022 9:07am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Why would Margaret not of had Florence living with her in 1921?
I know there are lots of scenarios for that situation.

The 1921 census was taken on June 19, 1921 and it recorded those who were at a property on that date. Florence for example may have been visiting her grandmother, Margaret may have lived there and was visiting elsewhere on that day.
A census is just a snapshot of one day.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 9th May 2022 7:44am
I'm sure it is recorded on the 1921 census that Florence's parents were deceased.
I might be wrong though.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 9th May 2022 8:09am
If you have paid to open the 1921, you should be able to view it again. There was no requirement to provide that information because of her age, however, if it was provided by mistake and is a true account, it will help find her mother.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 10th May 2022 11:54pm
Have you Thomas Jones death reference please.
How will I find out if Florence and Freda married and had children.
I will reach out to any of their off spring if still around.
Thank you.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 12th May 2022 2:10pm
Marriages Mar Qtr, 1938
Walsh Freda M, Roddick Edward E, Birkenhead 8a 889
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 12th May 2022 2:13pm
Marriages Mar Qtr, 1938
Walsh Freda M, Roddick Edward E, Birkenhead 8a 889
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 12th May 2022 2:15pm
To many Florence Jones marriages to be sure which one.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 12th May 2022 2:19pm
Death,
Jones Thomas, age 60 Birkenhead, 8a 522
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 12th May 2022 2:22pm
Originally Posted by bert1
Marriages Mar Qtr, 1938
Walsh Freda M, Roddick Edward E, Birkenhead 8a 889


Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Year Church / Register Office Registers At
WALSH Freda May RODDICK Edward Elton 1938 Oxton, St Saviour Wirral
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 12th May 2022 2:36pm
Children,

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Sep 1939 (
Roddick, Penelope A mmn,Walsh Birkenhead 8a 1009
Births Jun 1947 (
Roddick, Edward F mmn Walsh Birkenhead 10a 158
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th May 2022 1:38am
Thanks again.
There's no record of Thomas Jones having previously married b3fore he met Annie senior is there?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th May 2022 5:19am
Name: Thomas Jones , Joiner,/Mary Jane Oldfield
Gender: Male
Marriage Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: 1860
Marriage Date: 25 Jul 1886
Marriage Place: Bagillt, Flintshire, Wales
Father, Enoch Jones, Joiner
Father, Richard Oldfield.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th May 2022 9:49am
Is there any wartime record for Edward Elton Roddick
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th May 2022 10:09am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Is there any wartime record for Edward Elton Roddick

If he served the records will be at the National Archives, WW2 are not available online.
He survived the war, the 1939 register has him recorded as a Wholesale Fresh Meat Salesman and also noted as, Wallasey Fire Service, this may have been his roll during WW2.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th May 2022 11:09am
Did Thomas and Mary have children.
I'm trying to find that information on the 1891 census but not showing anything
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th May 2022 11:43am
Why wasn't Annie senior buried at Rake Lane.
Her husband,daughter,grandson,son in law were buried there and bearing in mind George died and was buried within 2 weeks of Annie's death.
Then the infant was buried in 1940.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 13th May 2022 1:07pm
Annie may have requested burial elsewhere or cremation.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 14th May 2022 4:44am
Originally Posted by Paullovesjean
Did Thomas and Mary have children.
I'm trying to find that information on the 1891 census but not showing anything


Can't find the census either, there were children born to the Jones/ Oldfield combination but difficult to say who they were and who their parents are.
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 14th May 2022 1:56pm
1891,
George Henry Cade
55 Head
Mary Ann Cade
55 Wife
William Stephen Cade
49 Son
Alice Edith Oldfield, Holywell, Flintshire, Single.
29 Cousin
Mary Jane Jones 30 Cousin, Holywell, Flintshire. Married

Mary Jane living with sister Alice Edith, cousins to head of household.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/11819616:6598
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 14th May 2022 7:02pm
1901,

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7814&h=24266046&usePUB=true
Mary Jane still declares she is married, still no sign of Thomas who we think is living elsewhere with Annie.
Posted By: Paullovesjean Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 22nd May 2022 9:06pm
Hello Bert

Just a quick line to say a huge thank you for all your assistance and help in my journey to find my family.
It has been a roller-coaster of a ride tainted with sadness and tears but ultimately happiness as I have acquired a family I knew nothing about which I am so grateful for.
Your persistence and eye for detail has been a huge factor on my journey and I couldn't have done it without you.
I have reached journey's end in my search I think and have assembled my family tree which I will share with my children and my grandson.
It's because of my new found family that they are why they are.
Many thanks again and if I decide to delve any deeper I shall be in touch.
All the best
Paul
Posted By: bert1 Re: Wheatsheaf Hotel 39 Corporation Road - 23rd May 2022 6:50am
You're very welcome and good luck.
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