Is there going to be pressure on all companies to make their products automatically Halal , since continuing to provide two different versions may not be financially viable , as we have already seen in the production of meat to schools in some places. We seem to me to be getting swept down a very slippery road.
https://boycotthalal.com/how-compan...l-RCzrCkanVbPUGTjhn0PO5A9bos2DvmjpxMNOAY
Surely certifying food as halal is religious discrimination? I'm sure if bread was labelled as "not for Muslims" there would be a huge outcry.
I thought that something that was halal was only allowed to be produced and prepared by Muslims?
There's some pretty serious ranting in the comments on that article... ugh. If all meat becomes halal - which I VERY much doubt it will - that would greatly further the cause of vegetarianism, I reckon, which would probably be a good thing for the environment and our innards.
One response actually made me laugh:
'Arabic script must be outlawed on all products for UK consumption, because we don’t know what it says'.
Oh dearie me. Where does that leave Welsh, then? Or Gaelic in the Highlands and Islands - in the Hebrides all the road signs are in Gaelic only. Or any other language on imported foreign food? I'm eating some rather good Polish biscuits at the moment and you have to look quite hard to find the English on that packaging. There are usually English translations on food labelling anyway. People may well have concerns, but getting hysterical about it in the way that article does isn't going to help anyone.
Still, it makes a change from Br*x*t!
Vegetarianism might be a good thing Greenwood, but I don't think the way to go about it is to pamper to the minorities , which ultimately become the majority with the loudest voice, forcing the indigenous Christians of this country to adapt to other religious practices, because quite simply, they ARE religious practices.... i.e. following the laws of Moses.
Will pork be taken off the school menus, and bacon removed from the supermarket shelves eventually. I would be in complete agreement with that, providing it was due to personal choice, not because it had been forced upon us.
When the people are pushed and forced into situations they reject and they feel strongly about.... we know what happens .
Should we also take on board the Maasai practice of drinking cows blood ?
I'd go to the barricades for the bacon butty, but will skip on the cow's blood - though I used to eat black pudding years ago; the thought of that makes me cringe now. You make a strong point on the matter of personal choice. It should be a choice, not a compulsion. I don't have a problem with using food labelling so people can avoid things which are wrong for them from a health or belief point of view, but imposing things on people who do not share those beliefs is wrong. There should be clear information and the chance for people to make an informed choice.
3.4million muslims out of a population of 65 million.(
https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/tran...ofinformationfoi/muslimpopulationintheuk) I think the balance of economical power is not with Halal. Weve seen ISIS and the like are pretty good at butchering so i would think muslims can sort out their own Halal meat.
Despite recent reports to the contrary, many fast-food and restaurant chains in Britain have been using halal – in Arabic "permissible" or "lawful" – meat for years. Nearly 100 KFC outlets around the country serve halal-approved chicken, as do around 75 – a fifth – of Nando's. The sandwiches served in selected Subway stores have contained halal meat since 2007, while all Pizza Express chicken is halal. Even McDonald's trialled a halal offering, before deciding the changes required to its kitchen procedures would be too great.
Sainsbury's, Tesco and Morrisons, which sell halal ranges at selected stores, and Boots, which sells halal baby food, serve halal meat firstly because people want it: Britain's Muslim population is growing – 3% of the population in the 2001 census, 5% in 2011, and an estimated 8.2%, or around 5.6 million people, by 2030. As KFC puts it: "Feedback from consumers has indicated that there is significant demand for halal food … We've chosen [to serve it] in stores in areas where we expect demand for halal restaurants."
For Pizza Express, as for the major food service companies that supply schools, hospitals and airlines, serving halal chicken across the board simplifies the supply chain and minimises the risk of complaints from customers who may unknowingly eat non-halal meat.
There remains, of course, the risk of complaints from customers who unknowingly eat halal meat – which is why restaurants should make clear, as most do in their windows and on their menus and website, what they are serving. (KFC and Nando's both also say they ensure, when opening a new halal restaurant, that there is a non-halal one nearby.)
There is considerable confusion, however, about exactly what halal meat is. Islamic rules require the animal to be slaughtered while alive and healthy, that the appropriate Islamic blessing be recited, and, crucially, that it be killed by a single, quick cut to the throat and its blood allowed to drain out fully.
That sounds bad. But banner headlines about "ritually slaughtered meat" conceal the fact that, according to a 2012 Food Standards Agency report cited by the RSPCA, 97% of cattle, 96% of poultry and 90% of sheep slaughtered using the halal method in UK abattoirs are stunned before being killed – a procedure that makes them insensible to pain and distress.
That, of course, means that up to 10% of British halal meat may come from animals that have not been slaughtered in a way animal welfare experts consider humane: some stricter Muslims insist stunning is not halal, and some halal authentication bodies – of which there are five in the UK alone – deem it an offence against Qur'anic law and tradition. But the halal meat served by KFC, Nando's, Pizza Express and Subway is certified by bodies that do permit pre-stunning. These chains stress that their suppliers are "contractually obliged" to provide only pre-stunned meat, that all EU and UK legislation has been met, and, in the words of KFC, that "none of our welfare standards have been compromised".
People should, of course, know exactly what they are eating. But they should also know that, in terms of animal welfare, the RSPCA makes no distinction between pre-stunned halal meat and conventionally slaughtered meat. It argues only that consumers should have "the right to choose whether or not they wish to buy meat from animals slaughtered without pre-stunning". The headlines do not always make that clear.
As 2018 draws to a close….
Very clear explanation; thank you for that.
So all vegetarian and vegan foods are implicitly halal and don't need certification, as they don't need certification, labelling them as halal is somewhat misleading.
Milk may be okay but there might be issues around what the cattle feed contains.There may be a problem with cheese, due to the origin of enzymes used in the process of making it. Ditto yougurt, possibly. I'm learning new things today, it's all a lot more complicated than I thought!
As with all religion, each believer thinks that their religion is the only true one, yet they are all a variance of one and the same, one supreme being, the way food religion wise is prepared or cooked no doubt arises from the way sacrifices were prepared, the pope has made his speech attacking the culture of greed as he stands bedecked in gold in Vatican city, but hey ho will sit down to my turkey on the lords birthday.
Despite recent reports to the contrary, many fast-food and restaurant chains in Britain have been using halal – in Arabic "permissible" or "lawful" – meat for years. Nearly 100 KFC outlets around the country serve halal-approved chicken, as do around 75 – a fifth – of Nando's. The sandwiches served in selected Subway stores have contained halal meat since 2007, while all Pizza Express chicken is halal. Even McDonald's trialled a halal offering, before deciding the changes required to its kitchen procedures would be too great.
Sainsbury's, Tesco and Morrisons, which sell halal ranges at selected stores, and Boots, which sells halal baby food, serve halal meat firstly because people want it: Britain's Muslim population is growing – 3% of the population in the 2001 census, 5% in 2011, and an estimated 8.2%, or around 5.6 million people, by 2030. As KFC puts it: "Feedback from consumers has indicated that there is significant demand for halal food … We've chosen [to serve it] in stores in areas where we expect demand for halal restaurants.
For Pizza Express, as for the major food service companies that supply schools, hospitals and airlines, serving halal chicken across the board simplifies the supply chain and minimises the risk of complaints from customers who may unknowingly eat non-halal meat.
There remains, of course, the risk of complaints from customers who unknowingly eat halal meat – which is why restaurants should make clear, as most do in their windows and on their menus and website, what they are serving. (KFC and Nando's both also say they ensure, when opening a new halal restaurant, that there is a non-halal one nearby.)
There is considerable confusion, however, about exactly what halal meat is. Islamic rules require the animal to be slaughtered while alive and healthy, that the appropriate Islamic blessing be recited, and, crucially, that it be killed by a single, quick cut to the throat and its blood allowed to drain out fully.
That sounds bad. But banner headlines about "ritually slaughtered meat" conceal the fact that, according to a 2012 Food Standards Agency report cited by the RSPCA, 97% of cattle, 96% of poultry and 90% of sheep slaughtered using the halal method in UK abattoirs are stunned before being killed – a procedure that makes them insensible to pain and distress.
That, of course, means that up to 10% of British halal meat may come from animals that have not been slaughtered in a way animal welfare experts consider humane: some stricter Muslims insist stunning is not halal, and some halal authentication bodies – of which there are five in the UK alone – deem it an offence against Qur'anic law and tradition. But the halal meat served by KFC, Nando's, Pizza Express and Subway is certified by bodies that do permit pre-stunning. These chains stress that their suppliers are "contractually obliged" to provide only pre-stunned meat, that all EU and UK legislation has been met, and, in the words of KFC, that "none of our welfare standards have been compromised".
People should, of course, know exactly what they are eating. But they should also know that, in terms of animal welfare, the RSPCA makes no distinction between pre-stunned halal meat and conventionally slaughtered meat. It argues only that consumers should have "the right to choose whether or not they wish to buy meat from animals slaughtered without pre-stunning". The headlines do not always make that clear.
As 2018 draws to a close….
I think that article is a little misleading when it says the RSPC doesnt distinguish between the two types of slaughter and only argues for 'the right to choose' . It makes it sound as if they dont object to slaughter without stunning ---- and they DO. I wasnt aware, but in the article below , it would seem that stunning in the second after a cut to the throat , would satisfy most Muslims, but NOT the Jewish religion. Interestingly it seems to imply that UK law insists on pre tunning , and that its EU law which allows exceptions for religious groups to have non pre stunned meat . So if we leave .......... could we use the opportunity to leave it as a ban ?? That would set the cat amongst the pigeons wouldnt it !!!
https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/l...at_are_we_doing_about_non_stun_slaughter
The 'gold' does not belong to the Pope, Casper.. you should know that, my lovely X Happy Christmas.
The restrictions and laws surrounding food, are very different . Where Islam will accept certain methods of stunning animals prior to slaughter, Judaism will not accept any form of stunning. Kosher food is much more strict, so far as I can see.
Judaism requires a fully competent slaughterer , whilst Islam can be just about anyone, providing they say a prayer over the animal before death.
It's all Abrahamic basis, and very much like the executions we have seen in the ME, the ones which we can't stomach. Same rules apply I imagine. So should we accept it for animals, but not for humans ? That doesn't seem right.... all sentient beings.!!
I know granny, I could have quoted Islam,the money spent on jihad, different ballroom same dance, I must have my humbug head on today, thank you for your Christmas wishes, the kiss will linger for the rest of the day, may I wish you and your family the very best for Christmas and the New Year. xx
I don't understand why people get so uppity about halal meat. It tastes the same, just has taken a slightly different path from pasture to plate than "conventional British methods".
Belief is a beautiful armour, but makes for the heaviest sword. And all that...
I don't understand why people get so uppity about halal meat. It tastes the same, just has taken a slightly different path from pasture to plate than "conventional British methods".
Because there is the push for more pure halal in the form of un-stunned slaughter like kosher.
Your argument also works the other way, why are Muslims so uppity about non-halal meat, it tastes just the same etc....
If I was an animal I know what way I would like to go - stunned all the way.
Quite so Heswall. I cant understand people who cant empathize with the suffering of animals-- why is it I wonder? Ignorance in so much as they dont understand all animals are sentient beings? Total inability to imagine suffering in any creature bar humans? Lacking in compassion to the point where they think suffering in other species just doesnt matter ?
While I agree the animal shouldn't suffer, what concerns me is the want of some people to inflict various types of cruelty it is forms of barbarism, blood lust, sadism etc. That's not the sort of society that most of us want, they should go and live in a jungle if they want to regress to wild behaviour.
No , I dont want them being brutal to animals in the jungle either lol! I dont think theres an answer really , you cant MAKE people sensitive to things they naturally arent . All you can do is keep providing evidence of where the cruelty happens, and hope enough people are against it to make laws to prevent it, and keep pressure on to make sure laws are kept. (In theory anyway)
UNLIKE blinking Norway , and Iceland and probably Japan , over the whaling , and France over what it damn well likes !
No , I dont want them being brutal to animals in the jungle either lol! I dont think theres an answer really , you cant MAKE people sensitive to things they naturally arent . All you can do is keep providing evidence of where the cruelty happens, and hope enough people are against it to make laws to prevent it, and keep pressure on to make sure laws are kept. (In theory anyway)
UNLIKE blinking Norway , and Iceland and probably Japan , over the whaling , and France over what it damn well likes !
Can you imagine how many live stock are being slaughtered[ Muslims see it as a sacrifice by cutting the throats of the animal] with out being stunned,Thousands would be a guess?pending how many Muslims are living in the UK. It is a slow death causing suffering to the animal.
What about our own hooray Henry's, hunting foxes down and shooting grouse all jolly good sport don't you know, might get the chance to give one of those bally awful protester's a damn good thrashing with ones crop.
Hooray Henry's have had their Boxing Day meet, and if they are playing by the rules, no foxes killed. If they are not playing by the rules (as in certain parts of the country) possibly a dozen foxes ?
The difference is Casper, that halal meat is ' sacrificial offerings' in both Islam and Judaism.
The link is an interesting read on Dhabihah, not much turns my stomach, but this did due to the explanations of certain processes and controversies. There is also a paragraph which says the following : (so why has it been rejected I was under the impression the Government were to take advice from such bodies of authority, that's what they are there for ?)
The UK Farm Animal Welfare Council says that the method by which kosher and halal meat is produced causes severe suffering to animals and it should be banned immediately.[27] According to FAWC it can take up to two minutes for cattle to bleed to death, thus amounting to animal abuse. Compassion in World Farming also supported the recommendation saying "We believe that the law must be changed to require all animals to be stunned before slaughter."[28][29] The UK government rejected its recommendations.[30]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah
No , I dont want them being brutal to animals in the jungle either lol! I dont think theres an answer really , you cant MAKE people sensitive to things they naturally arent . All you can do is keep providing evidence of where the cruelty happens, and hope enough people are against it to make laws to prevent it, and keep pressure on to make sure laws are kept. (In theory anyway)
UNLIKE blinking Norway , and Iceland and probably Japan , over the whaling , and France over what it damn well likes !
Can you imagine how many live stock are being slaughtered[ Muslims see it as a sacrifice by cutting the throats of the animal] with out being stunned,Thousands would be a guess?pending how many Muslims are living in the UK. It is a slow death causing suffering to the animal.
Thousands Snowy ? they are probably the ones that are 'rustled' from the farms in Lancashire. ?
Over 900 million farm animals are killed every year in the UK for meat. Many of these animals are killed by having their throats cut and the vast majority are stunned - rendering them unconscious - before this is done. However, the law permits Jewish and Muslim communities to slaughter animals according to their religious beliefs, which can involve slaughtering the animals without stunning them first. Whilst the RSPCA acknowledges that due to the religious association of this practice this can be a sensitive issue, it firmly holds the view that all animals should be treated humanely at the time of killing and therefore be stunned prior to slaughter.
[quote=granny]
Hooray Henry's have had their Boxing Day meet, and if they are playing by the rules, no foxes killed. If they are not playing by the rules (as in certain parts of the country) possibly a dozen foxes ?
The difference is Casper, that halal meat is ' sacrificial offerings' in both Islam and Judaism.
I know granny as I said myself in an earlier post, but is there not some element of paganism in the hunting of wildlife purely for sport, the taking of trophies, the blooding in fox hunting, shooting deer with a state of the art rifle, wow that must be a buzz, I wonder if they would be so keen to face the ultimate test of being on the hunted side?
Yes, I agree with you casper. The same people have 4x4's to pull the horse boxes, pollute the environment with methane gases, drink champagne, and have duck, turkey, pheasant, goose, beef and pork for their Xmas dinner. How do we kill pheasants and other birds ? Probably some or none of which are halal products. Once upon a time, we used bows and arrows, was that a better option, or traps and pits ? We still have badger baiting... they're all human initiated activities.
A fox killed by a pack of wolves is not halal either and more instantaneous than a cow strung up so it can't move during a halal ritual killing, in which, if the blood clots and the brain is not bled, the cow is aware and conscious of the horrific act and the pain as the spinal column is not allowed to be severed.
Yes, fox hunting banned by the Blair Government, the same government did not (want to) see the suffering with the halal or kosher killings and rejected the observations.
I assume you are saying that halal is better than fox hunting, where the animal against animal has a natural way if stunning and killing the fox. Animals have their own food chain and an inbuilt ability to deal with a hunt . If the hounds were allowed out and about freely, they would be killing all sorts of animals they come in contact with for food.
You just have an issue with the bugle brigade, and I have an issue with those who sit at many tables in high places, being fed halal or kosher food and imposing their immoral legacies of archaic religious practices into our country and onto our dinner tables and putting us in a position of being 'silenced ' against anything which might offend them. How about us being offended ? I suppose their prayers helps them when they tuck in !
A
I assume you are saying that halal is better than fox hunting, where the animal against animal has a natural way if stunning and killing the fox. Animals have their own food chain and an inbuilt ability to deal with a hunt . If the hounds were allowed out and about freely, they would be killing all sorts of animals they come in contact with for food.
You just have an issue with the bugle brigade, and I have an issue with those who sit at many tables in high places, being fed halal or kosher food and imposing their immoral legacies of archaic religious practices into our country and onto our dinner tables and putting us in a position of being 'silenced ' against anything which might offend them. How about us being offended ? I suppose their prayers helps them when they tuck in !
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No I didn't mean that granny, the point I was trying to make was that they are all ritualistic and have no place in society be it the halal butchers or the hunters, both are as bad as each other, yes and I am offended that we have to be a part of it.
Yes, Casper they are all ritualistic, and as a country that sport was banned ....... but we can't ban halal though, ever, not now !
I just wish that some of these people (politicians) who sit and decree, would have to complete work experience to include a day at an abattoir, or a chicken factory. I often wonder if the DEFRA and RSPCA officials do actually watch and experience in these slaughter houses, or if they just do 'tick boxes' as in if the place is clean and tidy (!) or washed down after every slaughter, etc.? I don't believe they do experience such horrors , I bet they just go on what is told to them and probably lies .
Halal allows for the animals to be stunned, Kosher doesn't (I'll go into hiding while waiting for the anti-Semitic headlines in the papers tomorrow).
As of the 5th of November it was compulsory for slaughterhouses to have CCTV cameras installed. The recordings have to be available for 90 days.
Belgium have banned the practice of un-stunned slaughter, needless to say there are claims of violation of religious freedom and human rights.
Belgium have banned the practice of un-stunned slaughter, needless to say there are claims of violation of religious freedom and human rights.
If they listen to the claims of violation and reverse the decision, then they will have snookered themselves for eternity. I just hope UK doesn't become a major trading route for them.
It will end up going through the courts but I doubt it will be overturned, religion doesn't give you a free pass but saying that bull fighting is still going with nothing but tradition as the excuse.
Little known fact is that bull fighting also occurs in France!
Poland had a ban to be put in place but it's been overturned. Don't know why.
Poland had a ban to be put in place but it's been overturned. Don't know why.
Yes, the Polish constitution was a bit verbose on religious freedom so a Polish court had to override the ban.
"The constitution guarantees the freedom of religion which includes the carrying out of all activities, practices, rites and rituals which have a religious character,"
I don't agree, if the definition of the relevant religion isn't written in law or the constitution then how can it be called a religion? - anybody could make anything up and bypass the law to suit themselves.
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Freedom of religion ? That's a bit 'double standards' for Poland, considering they refuse to accept Muslim refugees .