wirral forums

Coronavirus

Posted By: cools

Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 5:38pm

Britons coming back from China will be quarantined in a NHS facility in Wirral..wonder where that will be then?
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 6:08pm

Looks like it’s Arrowpark Hospital according to tv news.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 6:19pm

I hope the Government are at least covering the costs of this specialist care. Seems a bit ridiculous transporting them from Oxfordshire to the Wirral but they wouldn't want them down south would they!

Loads of Universities are concerned over the large number of Chinese students studying in the UK and in the case of Chester University they warned students that went to China for the Chinese New year that they would be quarantined on return.
Posted By: red_devil

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 6:36pm

I think this stinks. These people chose to go there, live and work there, and do not contribute to the UK economy Who is going to pay for all this? us? Presume Clatterbridge is the target?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 6:38pm

Supposed to be in an accommodation block so pretty much must be Arrowe Park
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 7:19pm

An unusual decision indeed, they have facilities just as capable as dealing with this down South,why transport people half the length of the country when containment seems the best policy, what happened to isolation at a military establishment ? maybe there is more to it than meets the eye,hypothetical senario we live on a Peninsula should the very worst happen and the virus spreads into a full blown epidemic it would be simple to isolate, block tunnels, motorways etc, Arrow Park Hospital is oversubscribed as it is, but very true as you say DD they wouldn't want them down South, just finished watching COBRA Mmmm. omg
Posted By: derekdwc

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 8:21pm

I'd rather they stayed at a hospital rather than the stupid idea put forward that they be self quarantined in their own homes.
The gov should set money aside to pay for this, even to paying loss of income and protection of jobs from dismissal by any of them that are affected by
this quarantine including nursing staff and doctors.
I'd have thought plane landing at Speke would have been better than transporting people half the length of the country when containment seems the best policy.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 8:46pm

To most of the population the virus isn't much of a threat in fact just like a short low level flu, but to the weak it can be fatal. This makes it absurd to put it near a hospital. Unless the doctors and nurses are going through a full spray-down each time, just the act of removing their protective clothing can transfer the virus to other parts of their clothing or body.

But its only quarantine, there is very low risk that any of the people are infected, they have already passed the basic checks.

Its yet another warning that the amount of international travel is very dangerous to the human race. If a fatal virus occurs that is as virulent as the common cold but with a very slow incubation period, it would be spread round the world before the first symptoms show.
Posted By: red_devil

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 10:51pm

To use Clatterbridge is much more viable. Arrowe Park is full of visitors and staff all day long. If it breaks out there, which I hope does not happen, heads will roll in Westminster. There is no way we should have potentially allowed this to spread directly out of the virulent area. Bad bad!
Posted By: red_devil

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 10:53pm

Isnt the AP Hosp accom blocks supposedly for visitors to terminally ill patients etc???? It will have to be VERY disinfected once the two weeks are over or are they just going to let the people walk out the door?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jan 2020 11:02pm

Arrowe Park have a staff/student accommodation block iirc. If there are no cases found then no disinfection will be required.

Its pretty unlikely any cases will be found.

Saying all that, it could be a bluff to throw the media off the scent as to the location. Much like Boris's visit to "Cheshire" last October
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jan 2020 12:31am



They have to go somewhere, why not Arrowe Park, if they have the required accommodation on site ? Better than being in a hospital with wards. I suspect each person will have their own room if they are to be quarantined and no visitors .

I don't think so much International travel is the problem, more like eating wild animals and stray dogs, cats, and anything else they can lay their hands on. Bears paw, monkey, snake, bats. ....
4000 stray dogs and cats were flown to Asia at the end of last year. Live meat. Possibly carrying rabies , worms or any weird disease.
It was bats the source of Ebola, if I remember correctly. I'd also check out your next chicken chow mein, that chicken is not like the chicken we cook. The texture is totally different.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jan 2020 12:48am



There are other planes bringing people back too, independent of the British Government. Cathay Pacific is one, and according to one family her grandson and others are not expected to be quarantined.
These people have flown from different provinces. Not Wingywang (or whatever the place is called. ) So there could be quite a lot more from various places now it's hit every province. If we take the embassy staff etc. alone from Wingywang (if there is an embassy)the numbers must add up. US were getting their embassy staff out.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jan 2020 8:42am

Another thought although up to now it has not been mentioned, illegal immigrants, most crossing the channel appear to be mainly from Iraq/Iran but those coming from China have been coming in Lorries highlighted by the sad loss of life recently, is there be a possibility that the virus could be carried this way?

If the virus is as low level as DD suggests, then why is it being treated as an epidemic of such huge proportions? it is as DD said to quarantine people who are possibly infected in a hospital amid people with low immunity and susceptible to picking up the slightest ailment a bit risky.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jan 2020 1:43pm

Statement from Arrowe Park Hospital ...

Quote
On Thursday 30 January, it was confirmed a flight had been arranged to bring around 100 British nationals back to the UK.

Around 100 British citizens will be travelling to the UK from China today (Jan 31). As a precaution they have agreed to remain in isolation for 14 days following their arrival in the UK.

We will be welcoming and housing them in the accommodation block at Arrowe Park Hospital for the duration of that isolation period. Before arrival they will be screened for symptoms. If anyone becomes unwell after arrival they will be treated following appropriate protocols.

This is a separate building and not a hospital ward. In addition, staff working in the hospital will not, at any time, be in contact with the people in isolation.

All services within our hospital will continue to run as usual, including emergency services, outpatients and planned surgery. If you have an appointment, or a procedure planned at Arrowe Park, please attend as normal.

We are working with other local organisations and our national partners to ensure that any disruption to the day-to-day work of the trust can be minimised and to ensure our patients continue to receive the care and attention they need.

We are incredibly grateful to our staff for their professionalism, and to our community for the support they are providing us to respond to a group of people who have affected by some extraordinary circumstances. It would not be possible for us to offer this small measure of relief to people who are vulnerable, and support to ensure they are properly cared for, without your understanding, and your patience.

Kind regards,

Janelle Holmes,

Chief Executive
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jan 2020 5:45pm

Scary ..... like the movie 28 days later! But real ..... ahem .... alledgededelyyy The US owns the patent for this strain of cocacola virus . mad maybe not so magical a mystery tour
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jan 2020 9:12pm

Originally Posted by GaryFromWirral
Scary ..... like the movie 28 days later! But real ..... ahem .... alledgededelyyy The US owns the patent for this strain of cocacola virus . mad maybe not so magical a mystery tour


https://fullfact.org/online/wuhan-virus-patent-gates/
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 1st Feb 2020 5:57pm

China had shut its airports, but countries fly in and take their people out, they should have stayed in China for the two weeks or whatever, why spread it around the world?
In case you don't know the World is coming to an end, the bush fires in Australia and then the floods, Earthquakes in other parts of the World, volcanoes going off, now we have the virus, look out for the four blokes on horse's or should that be for Apes on horse's !
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 1st Feb 2020 9:20pm

But it wouldn't be two weeks staying in China, they would have to stay until two weeks after the last known case in their area.

From the current figures, only a very small proportion of the local populations have the disease. The estimates are that in Wuhan it will top out at 0.13%, it is currently at 0.03%

Then there is the compartmentalism dilemma. If you are in a location where the disease is known to exist, would you stay there which would increase your chances of getting the disease or would you depart which would decrease your chances of getting the disease?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Feb 2020 9:03am

Apparently we are getting a visit from the health minister to thank Wirral for its help.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Feb 2020 1:29pm

Originally Posted by casper
Apparently we are getting a visit from the health minister to thank Wirral for its help.


Do you know when, Casper ? I wanted to have a word with him.
Posted By: jimbob

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Feb 2020 5:04pm

the villages of Eyam in 1665 showed how to contain the plague and stop it spreading throughout Derbyshire. I assume digging deeper by your post regarding compartmentalism dilemma you would have left the village.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Feb 2020 8:23am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
Apparently we are getting a visit from the health minister to thank Wirral for its help.


Do you know when, Casper ? I wanted to have a word with him.



You've put me on the spot granny, I can't remember whether I heard it on the radio the TV or read it on line, Angela Eagle has asked for a reason why our local MPs had to find out the details on the involvement of Wirral from the media instead of from the department of health, apparently this area was earmarked a long time ago for other reasons, who knows, with another plane load leaving China, will there be enough room at APH ?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Feb 2020 8:48am

Just had a thought granny I posted at 9.03am so I must have seen it on the news.
Posted By: Habdab

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Feb 2020 11:46am

Really Granny, I expected more from you. Wingywang? Just because foreign places sound different to ours, there's no need to take the mickey. Especially when the UK has towns with names like Twatt and Bell End. Ridiculous. And as for watching your chicken chow mein, do you really think your local Chinese take away would pay to import a chicken all the way from China if they could buy it at half the price from Teco or Asda?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Feb 2020 8:49pm

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
Apparently we are getting a visit from the health minister to thank Wirral for its help.


Do you know when, Casper ? I wanted to have a word with him.



You've put me on the spot granny, I can't remember whether I heard it on the radio the TV or read it on line, Angela Eagle has asked for a reason why our local MPs had to find out the details on the involvement of Wirral from the media instead of from the department of health, apparently this area was earmarked a long time ago for other reasons, who knows, with another plane load leaving China, will there be enough room at APH ?


Neither you nor I can answer those questions, Casper. Anyway, I must have missed Matt , such a shame. thumbsdown laugh
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Feb 2020 8:55pm

Originally Posted by Habdab
Really Granny, I expected more from you. Wingywang? Just because foreign places sound different to ours, there's no need to take the mickey. Especially when the UK has towns with names like Twatt and Bell End. Ridiculous. And as for watching your chicken chow mein, do you really think your local Chinese take away would pay to import a chicken all the way from China if they could buy it at half the price from Teco or Asda?


Habdab, do you remember asking me for a date ? I do..... I could have told you all the ins and outs of Chinese chickens grin.

ps. you forgot Pratt's Bottom !
Posted By: Habdab

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Feb 2020 9:29pm

You've obviously confused me with someone else Granny.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Feb 2020 9:36pm

Originally Posted by Habdab
You've obviously confused me with someone else Granny.


No, I'm sure it was you. Are you worried now ?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Feb 2020 10:49am

Originally Posted by jimbob
the villages of Eyam in 1665 showed how to contain the plague and stop it spreading throughout Derbyshire. I assume digging deeper by your post regarding compartmentalism dilemma you would have left the village.


How rude of us to ignore your post, jimbob. Actually it's a very interesting to read about. Here is a link : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-35064071


It wasn't you was it jimbob ( who asked me out on a date ) ?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Feb 2020 11:40am

Originally Posted by jimbob
the villages of Eyam in 1665 showed how to contain the plague and stop it spreading throughout Derbyshire. I assume digging deeper by your post regarding compartmentalism dilemma you would have left the village.


There are two parts to the dilemma, the first on an individual level (as you suggest), the second is that the less people that catch it the less it is likely to spread.

The complete Eyam quarantine was put in place only after smaller quarantine zones had failed. I'm sure there will have been other villages where the smaller quarantines had been successful and lesser numbers of people died.

Philosophically the action can be compared to sacrificing people to the "Gods", its all about sacrifice, the question is always about scale, how many do you sacrifice as even retrospectively you can't judge which number is correct.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Feb 2020 5:14pm

Things are bad in China. Just watched a live report from Animals Asia as they travelled back to their centre in Chengdu. Roads empty, supplies of masks , hygiene supplies are running low, as in disinfectant, hand wash and medical supplies are low etc. Most of the shops are closed , and human food is in short supply. What food is available has doubled in price. Food for the bears is also running out along with medications.
They are expecting the coronavirus to peak in March/April/May
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Feb 2020 4:59pm

See on the news the next plane carrying people from Wuhan are going to be taken to Milton Keynes for the 14 days quarantine.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Feb 2020 6:30pm

So much for the assurances that hospital staff wouldn't be used in the quarantine area at APH, it has been confirmed that some staff have been told to be flexible and must work between the two areas, and have been doing so for over a week our local MP's have been asking for details since Tuesday and have basically been fobbed off with the answer that all actions comply with health guidelines, How can it be that people can just come in without any meaningful consultation and information and take over? there is a risk however small that infection could be carried to the very sick with low immunity, hazarding a guess it looks like a money saving exercise and questions need to be asked and answered.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Feb 2020 11:22pm

All Biotech ...in my tinfoil opinion ... scaremongery indeed .. all scary really
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Feb 2020 9:38am

The news states that one of those in quarantine in APH has threatened to abscond, new rules citing serious and imminent danger have been introduced to prevent people refusing to be quarantined or to stay in quarantine to be legally held.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Feb 2020 12:39pm

Always one isn’t there,, he got flight home and agreed to quarantine for God’s sake just do the 14 days, bloody idiot! Makes me so angry sedate him or her if they have to!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Feb 2020 2:54pm

Originally Posted by casper
The news states that one of those in quarantine in APH has threatened to abscond, new rules citing serious and imminent danger have been introduced to prevent people refusing to be quarantined or to stay in quarantine to be legally held.


I believe it was at Milton Keynes not APH.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Feb 2020 4:03pm

It said Arrowe Park on lunchtime news.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Feb 2020 6:21pm

Originally Posted by cools
It said Arrowe Park on lunchtime news.


Yep, seen both now, the first reports were Milton Keynes but as the later ones are APH so I'd guess they are correct.

Only three days left for the first APH batch or maybe two if they include the travel time, if none show symptoms there is no reason why the travel time can't be included..
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Feb 2020 8:52am



What's going on with these two ?

Quite ironic that considering this couple have been on the BBC sending their daily reports and complaining bitterly about the UK Government for not arranging flights home.

Then yesterday, flights home are arranged but this couple have now been confirmed as having caught the virus and according to their son , he said they were in hospital when he spoke to his mother.

This morning that information seems to be incorrect from BBC update .

Could someone be looking for compensation or is it another example of how the BBC can get things wrong, when relying on others for their news stories..... ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51541352
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Feb 2020 6:08pm

Looks like Arrowe park going to receive these folk off the cruise ship to do their quarantine.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Feb 2020 4:32pm

Four people off the cruise ship and taken to Arrowe Park tested positive, they have now been moved to an isolation unit . Hope there’s no more , scary let’s wish them a speedy recovery and this damm virus can be stopped and doesn’t spread .
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Feb 2020 7:18pm

Coach drivers twitching a bit.....still conflicting news. Some say only spread by close contact and not airborne, others saying many on the cruise ship quarantined have contracted it through the air conditioning suggesting it is airborne.. 8 out of the 9 previous UK cases are now well
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Feb 2020 6:25am

It was confused by WHO, they defined "close contact" as within 6ft, not actual contact on this occasion.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/transmission.html

There can be no doubt it is airborne, any virus that attacks the surface of the airways is bound to be airborne, that doesn't mean it is not spread other ways as well.

A second phase may be when carriers catch a simple cold and then the disease may spread but as they are symptomless the virus may not be on the surface of their airways.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Feb 2020 6:54pm

Lack of information, denials about staff use at APH, and now we have managed to export the virus to Wirral, latest on TV this morning is if anyone is infected it is no worse than flu or a bad cold and may not even need medication, it is only risky to one in five of the population, mmm something doesn't sound quite right. think
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Feb 2020 10:12pm


CHINA MOVES TO ACT ON WILDLIFE TRADE. Today in China, a proposal "on comprehensively prohibiting the illegal wildlife trade, abolishing the bad habit of overconsumption of wildlife, and effectively protecting the lives and health of the people" was reportedly approved by the National People’s Congress Standing Committee. The welcome move follows a temporary ban on wildlife trade imposed after the coronavirus (COVID-19) was traced back to a market selling all manner of species, dead and alive, in the city of Wuhan.
This cruel trade taking a terrible toll on countless animals, and now people - nearly 80,000 have been affected by, and more than 2,500 have died from, the virus to date - this measure must achieve what it purports, tackling not only illegal but ALL wildlife trade.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Feb 2020 12:25am


I've just read that in the areas of Lombardia and Veneto there are close links with the Chinese garment industry and Italy's clothing firms. I suppose, it's possible to spread that way too but there is a large population of Chinese there also. Legal and illegal. They get everywhere , popping up like mushrooms.

Don't buy Chinese anything and definitely not Chinese mushrooms ! grin
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Feb 2020 2:51pm

A hotel in lockdown , football fans quarantined , a British school closed , Read somewhere that the Iranian Health minister now has also tested positive for the virus and the BBC news website is looking a tad alarming too .. glad I haven't procreated in this world.

Hong Kong Phooey
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Feb 2020 3:11pm

Animals being executed, notably dogs. While it appears unlikely that dogs are primary carriers, some irresponsible owners in quarantine have been letting their dogs out into public places which means if the owners are infected then the virus could be on the dogs fur and getting spread around.

WHO are fairly convinced that while the origin of the Corona virus is bats, they strongly suspect there is another creature that is an intermediately between bats and humans.

HIV was similar, while it originated in one primate (from the common SIV virus) it then went through at least two additional species giving three different types of the virus.

Lets hope Coronavirus isn't similar to HIV which can hide in small parts of the body but still not be completely de-active.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Feb 2020 5:55pm

I don't know the science facts ... try my best to stay away from thoughts of suffering , but if those in "power" think they are ... they won't be forever and they can die with the rest of the poor and helpless and we'll all laugh about it in a millenia. jolly good
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Mar 2020 1:44pm



It seem to be a bit more than Hong Kong Phooey. In fact it's travelling at an alarming rate. I wonder if the travel agents are going to reimburse all the Easter hols that families have booked, either here, there, or anywhere if requested.

Quite a number of BA flights to Europe and other places are to be cancelled through March, so I assume they will automatically make refunds .

A couple of cousins have cancelled their cruise to the far east at the end of March. They have received a refund. It should be an option now for everyone.
Posted By: derekdwc

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Mar 2020 5:30pm

Has anyone bought the masks. Boots by me don't sell them and have run out of handwash
Ordered some masks from China Feb 2 - possible April delivery so I decided to make my own until then.

Attached picture diy mask.jpg
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Mar 2020 6:14pm

Ha, if we didn’t laugh we’d cry eh.. pretty scary situation though. I heard today that masks were being bought up and on eBay for astronomical prices, don’t know how true that is. Ye I went to get some hand sanitizer today and none available. Toilet rolls and food be the next thing to start disappearing off the shelves as people panic. Nostradamus knew all these things would happen according to media , the mind boggles!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Mar 2020 7:25pm

Matt Hancock replied everything is being considered when asked about zero hours workers and others without access to sick pay, which means no, so people living hand to mouth have to consider if I don't work i could end up heavily in debt or on the street, and if I do go to work I could spread the virus, so much for Boris's everything possible is being done, he should have added unless it costs money, as for procedures similar have been in place for years in case of a NBC strike.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Mar 2020 10:16pm

Originally Posted by cools
Ha, if we didn’t laugh we’d cry eh.. pretty scary situation though. I heard today that masks were being bought up and on eBay for astronomical prices, don’t know how true that is. Ye I went to get some hand sanitizer today and none available. Toilet rolls and food be the next thing to start disappearing off the shelves as people panic. Nostradamus knew all these things would happen according to media , the mind boggles!


Why would toilet rolls be off the shelves ? Who eats those ?

Blind , Baba Vanga is another clairvoyant who made many predictions.. but I'm not sure that all the predictions attributed to her, were in fact hers or made by others in her name. She died in 1996 and by all accounts predicted 9/ll ,


In 1989, she predicted an attack on the United States:

Horror, horror! The American brothers will fall after being attacked by the steel birds. The wolves will be howling in a bush, and innocent blood will be gushing.

— Predicted in 1989 by Baba Vanga

There is of course another source and that is the bible. Great earthquakes, famine and pestilence. etc. etc.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Mar 2020 10:20pm

Ha, ha ! well done Derek ! Just use soap and sing the national anthem.. as directed by the Mogg.

I know Casper will appreciate that idea smile wink
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Mar 2020 10:46pm

i read that coronavirus is killed by alcohol over 60%. If beer is abourt 4% does that mean a minimum of 15 pints..I know both could kill you but at least youd be happy for a while..
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Mar 2020 11:48pm


Not if you're on the job . A legless fish ?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Mar 2020 9:01am

Originally Posted by granny
Ha, ha ! well done Derek ! Just use soap and sing the national anthem.. as directed by the Mogg.

I know Casper will appreciate that idea smile wink


Yes indeed granny Vera Lynn singing on the wireless (its a lovely day tomorrow) all pulling together, all volunteers of course,Boris doing his Churchill bit giving us the two fingers, the cigar replaced by a worn sausage, thoroughly washed and disinfected after use. oshocked
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Mar 2020 5:09am

Is the co-founder of Apple patient zero for coronavirus in the U.S.? Steve Wozniak told Inside Edition that he and his wife were both sick after returning from Hong Kong in January, where he came into contact with a tourist from Wuhan, the epicenter of the crisis. He said he is now recovering, but said he knows “that if we returned from Hong Kong today with the symptoms we had, we’d be candidates for testing and quarantine immediately." hmmmmm burn him with fire??!! lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsz-JQVJAbw
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Mar 2020 11:06pm



Just as long as he's getting better. Had it happened today and he had not been quarantined, should he have died there would have been ructions.

In Tesco today, not a toilet roll left on the shelves. Incredible. Whether Tesco had refrained from putting more stock out, I don't know but what have toilet rolls got to do with this virus ? Crazy mentalities !
Posted By: Softy_Southerner

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Mar 2020 12:38pm

Originally Posted by granny


In Tesco today, not a toilet roll left on the shelves. Incredible. Whether Tesco had refrained from putting more stock out, I don't know but what have toilet rolls got to do with this virus ? Crazy mentalities !


Speaking to my sister in Western Australia this morning - no toilet roll out there either - worldwide shortage! ?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Mar 2020 3:31pm

Originally Posted by granny
In Tesco today, not a toilet roll left on the shelves. Incredible. Whether Tesco had refrained from putting more stock out, I don't know but what have toilet rolls got to do with this virus ? Crazy mentalities !


One of the common symptoms is diarrhoea which lasts for quite a few days, it would be difficult if you are in self-quarantine without loo roll, especially if you are quarantined within a household.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Mar 2020 6:07pm

I wonder if the same problem has occurred with tissues? Same thing really, though perhaps not quite as robust.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Mar 2020 1:38am

I've not seen any figures for the spread of the virus in the UK ie those have that got infected inside the UK. This would give is a much better idea of spread. I believe it only to be a handful at the moment, perhaps less than 5?
Posted By: muzzy2

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Mar 2020 8:25am

We are up to 209 cases now. Keep track on: worldometers.info
Gives you all the gory details.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Mar 2020 8:57am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
In Tesco today, not a toilet roll left on the shelves. Incredible. Whether Tesco had refrained from putting more stock out, I don't know but what have toilet rolls got to do with this virus ? Crazy mentalities !


One of the common symptoms is diarrhoea which lasts for quite a few days, it would be difficult if you are in self-quarantine without loo roll, especially if you are quarantined within a household.


I've not seen any mention of diarrhoea in the list of symptoms given out, wash hands, self isolation, self medication,perhaps we should be cutting up the echo into little squares, its already very clear that the NHS couldn't cope with a mass outbreak, I'am sure I read a news article saying that the elderly and those suffering with underlying health problems would be ignored (thrown under the bus) in favour of treating the healthy who are more likely to survive under the worst case outbreak. oh forgot to add, sing land of hope and glory, if all else fails.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Mar 2020 10:15am

I think people think we might end up going into lockdown like Italy so no deliveries anything., that still doesn’t excuse panic buying, shops should ration goods. As you say Casper not getting rid of my Wirral Globe , might come in handy...I find it very worrying not so much for myself but I’ve got little grandchildren and the baby is not great with infections etc so paranoid and frantically washing hands and luckily I had some gel so using that continuously..its going to ge5 worse before it gets better so pray they find a vaccine..Apparently the virus doesn’t do well in heat, have hot baths folks , try anything.....
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Mar 2020 10:29am

Washing your hands is pretty futile in its own right, its just a way of making you more aware of what you do with your hands. If you have CV19 on your hands then you also have it on your clothes where your hands have touched them, wash your hands and within seconds you've touched your clothes and re-infected your hands. The main trick is to keep your hands away from your face, ideally (like cooks and others) have a dirty hand and a clean hand, touch doors, stair rails etc with one but still the chances of contaminating across your hands is pretty high eg through a steering wheel, opening a packet of crisps or whatever.

The amount of physical damage CV19 causes is huge, it punctures holes in the lungs to which you body reacts highly (almost like a burn), then it starts the same on blood vessels and heads towards other organs, particularly the liver.

In My Humble Opinion ..... If you get it, its important to try and keep your lungs free of debris and fluids, although they tell you to rest, I would try and do the opposite and ventilate the lungs as much as possible. Most people that die have died of pneumonia although CV19 in the worst cases would kill you eventually through organ damage. I would also take anti-inflammatories to attempt to reduce the amount of fluid the body pumps into the lungs. If you get to the pneumonia stage you need antibiotics. .... IMHO

How each individual tries to prevent or mitigate the disease is up to them, the authorities have to take into account the overall effects of giving out information and will give out some propaganda.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Mar 2020 5:15pm

Oh my DD, you sure know how to make a person feel better ha....So I guess it’s back to hoping and praying then.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Mar 2020 7:24pm

Originally Posted by cools
Oh my DD, you sure know how to make a person feel better ha....So I guess it’s back to hoping and praying then.


I would prefer the authorities were honest. They know by now the lifespan of CV19 outside the body but they aren't saying, they are just giving vague figures based on other CV knowledge. The lifespan is long, most probably greater than a week, I'm suspecting they know its more like 28 days rather than the 9 days they are flouting.

The 1% mortality rate was nonsense and they know that, it was simple arithmetic based on UK figures (200 cases, 2 deaths). Those figures were highly unrepresentative of the general infection and don't tie up with other countries stats.

I have no idea what the Government's game-plan is but its strategy is most certainly not based on minimising the number of infections. That can make sense, more exposure to the virus can translate to a safer future. Just imagine if we were the only country that didn't have a case, it would just remain a ticking time-bomb until it happened unless a vaccine was created (just remember that the common cold still has no vaccine).

Even if people don't get fully exposed to the virus, a passing whiff of it could improve the immune system's response should they get a dose. That is the problem with this virus, its not the virus's strength, its just that our immune systems haven't come across it before and haven't got a clue what to do with it. Similar to the numerous diseases that we hit parts of the rest of the World with back in the day, the common cold can be serious to a population who have never come across it before.

Feel even better now?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Mar 2020 12:50am

Anyone seen this yet. Spooky to say the least. Published in 1981 ......

Dean Koutz. Eyes of Darkness

Not sure how easy they are to read on here.

[Linked Image]

Reuters are trying to dispel the theory that he is a clairvoyant or can prophesize. What he wrote was on a par with fantasy, but seems to have a prophetic angle but Dean Koutz has not claimed anything.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...-coronavirus-2019-outbreak-idUSKCN20M19I

Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Mar 2020 10:03am

There are lots of disasters in fiction which turn out real.

Tom Clancy's Executive Orders features ISIL and a global virus epidemic.

Debt of Honour has shades of 9/11 in it.

As does this computer game from the 80s:

[Linked Image]
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Mar 2020 1:43pm

A lot of these writers glean their information for books from actual deactivated sources or accounts of people involved eg; Andy McNab drawing on his experiences in the SAS to write fictional books, so no doubt there may be a grain of truth in some of them.

Lets face it what we have is a biological agent, how it evolved or came to be, is anyone's guess we are told it originated through eating bats, maybe the bats came into contact with it in a secret establishment, doesn't sound to far fetched does it, maybe it was an intentional release to cull the poorer Chinese population, who knows, we see China spraying floors and walls well spraying everything, which seems to indicate it has a persistence to remain for periods of time.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Mar 2020 9:38pm


I think Ebola was said to originate from bats. Monkeys ate the bats and humans ate the monkeys.

I have to say, that the Old Testament which gives the Commandments ,forbidding the human consumption of scavengers and carrion eaters, which devour other animals for their food..... and the list is long , makes sense to me, basically telling us that some animals carry diseases which we can't fight , and not to mix the blood ! (think I might have mentioned that before a long time ago)

What they don't eat in China isn't worth mentioning but as you say Casper, obsessive about de-contamination and they wear masks on a daily basis, coronavirus or not.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Mar 2020 12:39am

My niece's son was sent home early from school ( in Kent ) today at 10.45am .

She asked why .

He'd been expelled for the day after being caught charging students 50p a squirt of hand sanitizer . raftl
Posted By: Jeremy

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Mar 2020 7:05am

Jenny?
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Mar 2020 8:31am

Oh god serious stuff this now and yes thought it was disgusting and so irresponsible to let that Liverpool game against Madrid go on!!!!! Do they all think they immune to this because of bloody football and game must go on!!! So many now will be passing this on who were there last night in the pubs etc. Take it serious folks because it is!
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Mar 2020 10:21am

24,000 plus die from Cancer every day around the World, that's over 9 million a year! and we all take this in our stride!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Mar 2020 12:38pm

Originally Posted by keef666
24,000 plus die from Cancer every day around the World, that's over 9 million a year! and we all take this in our stride!


No we do not take in in our stride, many millions of people grieve for those that die or have cancer, many millions are living in suffering and many millions of pounds are spent trying to cure it and treat those suffering from it.

There is a huge difference in a non-communicable disease like cancer and CV19 which is communicable, if cancer was communicable on the same level as CV19 we would all be walking around in hazmat suits by now and the population would be very much decreased.
Posted By: derekdwc

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Mar 2020 9:47pm

Has anything been said on the news etc whether private hospitals and their staffs will be involved in treatments and if so, would it be through NHS or privately in some way
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Mar 2020 10:58pm


I doubt it Derek , because I don't think the private hospitals have high dependency beds. If they can I'm sure they will , as they take NHS patients anyway, for operations .
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Mar 2020 4:25pm

Anyone else sick of hearing about hard times for Tranmere Rovers on the radio today, this is going to affect everybody one way or another, banging on about how much they do for the community, next stop WBC for a sponsorship on the strength of it.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Mar 2020 7:13pm

Originally Posted by casper
Anyone else sick of hearing about hard times for Tranmere Rovers on the radio today, this is going to affect everybody one way or another, banging on about how much they do for the community, next stop WBC for a sponsorship on the strength of it.


well i wouldnt expect him to talk about the price of bacon.....and if he has been asked about how it will affect football teams what else do you expect him to talk about. Ironically it (corona) could save them from relegation..
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Mar 2020 8:50pm

Not long ago MP's told us that brexit would make medicine hard to get, supermarkets with empty shelves and people panic buying and travelling would be affected. Did they know something was around the corner?. Makes you think
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Mar 2020 10:44pm

This is like something out of a sci-fi book or movie . It’s quite surreal..every time I look at the news it’s getting worse and now more quite alarming measures going to be taken. And we thought we only had Brexit to worry about!! I’m finding it quite terrifying and wonder what’s going to happen next? Listening to Trump it sounded like the end of the world was looming.. God help us.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Mar 2020 11:13pm

You listened to Trump? Baaad move...! Seriously, yes it is time to take all the precautions we can to avoid the virus and it's going to be a difficult few weeks/months ahead for everyone, but the vast majority of people should come through it okay - although the most vulnerable will be threatened, by the self isolation if not the virus, and the economy will take a big hit from enforced closures etc. Keep calm and follow the official advice - it's all we can do really.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Mar 2020 11:27pm

Yes you’re right Greenwood, guess I’m watching too much news and getting panicked by it all. It is serious but as you say got to follow what they say and get through it.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 4:21am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
In My Humble Opinion ..... If you get it, its important to try and keep your lungs free of debris and fluids, although they tell you to rest, I would try and do the opposite and ventilate the lungs as much as possible. Most people that die have died of pneumonia although CV19 in the worst cases would kill you eventually through organ damage. I would also take anti-inflammatories to attempt to reduce the amount of fluid the body pumps into the lungs. If you get to the pneumonia stage you need antibiotics. .... IMHO


Well that's been shot down by France, they say Ibuprofen aggravates the disease and to use paracetamol.

I see both the NHS and America were suggesting Ibuprofen, it will be interesting to find out why it reacts with CV19.
Posted By: muzzy2

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 9:04am

If anyone gets it, would they be willing to post on here how they are affected, what they feel like, progression etc. Also how they think they caught it.
I think it would help us understand better what to do and best things to do to avoid if possible.
Seeing all this panic about hand gel, why not just try a spot of bleach to wash hands with?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 3:12pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
In My Humble Opinion ..... If you get it, its important to try and keep your lungs free of debris and fluids, although they tell you to rest, I would try and do the opposite and ventilate the lungs as much as possible. Most people that die have died of pneumonia although CV19 in the worst cases would kill you eventually through organ damage. I would also take anti-inflammatories to attempt to reduce the amount of fluid the body pumps into the lungs. If you get to the pneumonia stage you need antibiotics. .... IMHO


Well that's been shot down by France, they say Ibuprofen aggravates the disease and to use paracetamol.

I see both the NHS and America were suggesting Ibuprofen, it will be interesting to find out why it reacts with CV19.


Try to get some paracetamol ! Sold out everywhere. Pasta is another. Why would anyone want to stockpile pasta ? It's all ludicrous behaviour.

I have my doubts that it originated in the meat market as I read an article the other day (whether we can believe such journalism is also questionable ) with US blaming China and China blaming US.
China says it is an American disease that might have been introduced by members of the United States Army who visited Wuhan in October.
Well, if that is the case, it throws their original theory that it originated in Wuhan wet meat market, out the window .
To actually see the spread of such magnitude in such a short period of time, really does present more questions than answers in my opinion.
If it's about to get so much worse, I wonder what the contingency plans are for the Army and Navy personnel , the cemeteries and to tell people over 70 to self isolate for up to 4 months is even more crazy.
Order online ! Great idea if the 70 plus have computers, and the supermarkets have the available staff to make the deliveries. If that does happen I hope the general public will pull together and help the little old lady down the road who has no one and is too frightened to ask. I also hope that the little old lady isn't ripped off by some con man/woman.

Is this a world wide prep for a nuclear attack ? It makes you bloody wonder !

A letter from a lady in Yemen posted in the last few days, it sort of makes a point :

Message from Sara Ameri ,Yemen: “The citizens of the first world are in panic: they are experiencing something ordinary for us. Can’t you travel? We haven’t travelled either, for five years. You can’t leave the house? It’s raining bombs on us.
Do they stockpile goods in supermarkets? In our war zone, production is paralyzed, imports are very low. Is a terrible virus spreading? We experienced the same with cholera. Are you worried about the children? Welcome to our everyday world. Do you feel cut off as a nation? We have been cut off from 90% of the countries. Losing jobs? So many of us haven’t received a salary in five years. Schools closed? It’s been happening for years. Health system in crisis? That happens with us, no matter what kind of disease you get. Don’t worry, it’s tough at first. Then you get used to it.”
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 4:33pm

Did you see the post on here the other day someone advertising home delivery packs, masks, gloves wipes pasta toilet roll etc £100, unbelievable, as to the lady from Yemen, we too have been bombed and starved, cut off as a nation it happened a long time ago but none the less it happened, so yes we do know.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 4:44pm

Originally Posted by casper
Did you see the post on here the other day someone advertising home delivery packs, masks, gloves wipes pasta toilet roll etc £100, unbelievable, as to the lady from Yemen, we too have been bombed and starved, cut off as a nation it happened a long time ago but none the less it happened, so yes we do know.



I don't think she is appealing to the over 80's Casper. Unfortunately , I doubt her children know either. If they did, of course they would think it is just the norm. We all have to experience to understand , apparently .

Yes, I saw the post of that guy advertising.. there's always someone ready to make a killing .
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 5:05pm

Think when this self isolation comes in for over 70s this forum and others are going to become very important and think we’ll all have to try and keep it interesting and alive to give folk abit of a distraction from the horrible situation facing us . So let’s try and get it how it was , entertaining and funny some seriousness but we all in it together eh....
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 6:19pm

I am still a young whipper snapper......looks like i will be running the errands! What is meant by isolation ?. If i walk out house , jump in car, drive out to a remote river, fish all day and then drive straight home ?
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 6:26pm

They say police will be used , so watch out for grasses Fish who’ll dob you in to the iso squad. You’ve seen how it’s done in China man handled into a closed truck , yikes!!!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 9:03pm

Originally Posted by cools
Think when this self isolation comes in for over 70s this forum and others are going to become very important and think we’ll all have to try and keep it interesting and alive to give folk abit of a distraction from the horrible situation facing us . So let’s try and get it how it was , entertaining and funny some seriousness but we all in it together eh....


Good call cools,as long as we don't get worried when a screen goes blank, like the ten little Indians. tease
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Mar 2020 11:47pm

Originally Posted by cools
They say police will be used , so watch out for grasses Fish who’ll dob you in to the iso squad. You’ve seen how it’s done in China man handled into a closed truck , yikes!!!

just watched a police drone in Japan or china chase an old lady back to her house.. Pensioners will be dressing up in black and be out creeping in the shadows just to avoid cabin fever.
Posted By: derekdwc

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Mar 2020 6:07pm

Just wondering in the next few weeks or more if you've got a car would you be able to drive somewhere but not leave your car or mingle with anyone.
Unfortunately I'm the only one with a car because there were a few things I was thinking of
Ask my daughter if possible to do some shopping if needed and put into bags so I could collect from either her house
(left on doorstep for collection) or car park of the shop.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Mar 2020 9:33pm


Derek, I would. You wouldn't even have to get out of the car, she could pop them in the boot. Just make sure you wear gloves in case bags carry this virus. (I'm not sure about that ) and sing Happy Birthday twice when you get home and then wipe your steering wheel .

We don't even know how long this virus lives on things do we ?

I doubt you will be arrested .

I think if you get the virus , that will be different, but plenty of options are beginning to be put forward if that time should arise for someone.

Can anyone else can give Derek more info ?
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 10:17am

Originally Posted by granny

We don't even know how long this virus lives on things do we ?


How Long Does the Coronavirus Last on Surfaces?
https://www.wired.com/story/how-long-does-the-coronavirus-last-on-surfaces/
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 10:24am

This would have all been kicked in the butt, if governments took more action back in November last year, as soon as you started bringing people home, you started spreading the virus!
But the great unwashed people of the UK get what they deserve, i feel sorry for the older folk as they are the ones who will pay for it!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 11:46am

So the virus is persistent for a long period of time, yet the government have not given any information on this, this type of information would make people realise the need for hand washing and disinfecting surfaces, we have watched the Chinese spraying ceiling to floor for months so they have known about its persistence to remain on surfaces, yet here we have Boris with his caught smoking in the toilets face on reiterating the same thing, give us the information that will help us understand the virus better.

Attached picture 3sg0nx.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 12:09pm

Washing your hands makes no difference if you touch your clothes. It’s just a petty exercise to keep the masses happy.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 3:52pm

Doesn't the soap create a barrier ?

Saw this yesterday.




This is an unknown as much to us as the rest of the world. WHO advice hasn't managed to stop it from spreading, so we are in the lap of the gods. We can find blame all we want if we actually knew from which lab this 'designer virus ' originated , until then nobody is any the wiser. I say 'designer' because viruses don't generally pick and choose their targets without a bit of help. Accuse me of conspiracy it's fine, but I believe as things are, we are all human, it doesn't matter who the leader is, all the cross parties are being advised by the same people and everyone is doing their best. To think otherwise is clearly not very rational. I understood Boris's advice yesterday and his team who gave a clear understanding of what we should be doing and why we are being told what to do and when. If people are taking more information from outside sources, we could end up in a worse mess..... because nobody knows !
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 5:31pm

It was only a matter of time before a virus or bacteria or other organism caused us problems. Our previous tribal safeguards have been broken, these are what protected us from plagues and more in the past. We may have had some really bad diseases in the past but it would have remained very localised.

Look at the number of trees that have problems and they have much more robust immune systems than us. Again our globalism hasn't helped them either, we have done our damnedest to spread their infections around the globe.

Soap doesn't leave a barrier, it washes off with water. The demonstration could mislead people into think that soap physically repels viruses - its total nonsense, although it does help wash viruses off the skin. The function of soap is to dissolve greases on our skin, grease helps things stick to us. Soap's negative side affect is to wash away our natural acid coating which protects us from many bacteria, that is possibly why cuts on hands take longer to heal than other parts of the body.

A hand cream/emollient probably helps the virus stick to our skin, hand creams create a water barrier and soften by retaining the skins fluids, some have a lubricant in them to fool you into thinking your skin is softer straight away, its just slippier. Eitherway, the grease or lubricant will probably help retain the virus on our skin.

Our skin doesn't need protecting from CV with an additional barrier, its not considered an entry route but it can transfer from our hands to our mouths and noses.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 10:31pm


I bought some Aleppo soap months ago. Made from olive oil and laurel and said to be anti-bacterial . Apart from the smell which is not too bad and nowhere near as bad as carbolic , and the look of it, it's a really nice lather up soap and gentle on the skin. Said to be anti-bacterial and good for various skin complaints. As I can't get any anti bacterial gel, I thought this would do instead .
Get it off ebay and it last quite a long time.

https://thetoiletzone.com/aleppo-soap-history-benefits-uses/
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 10:32pm

Think we will be going into lockdown soon, all other countries doing it can’t see how we can carry on , dread it though but if it’s got to be done so be it.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 10:57pm


Yes, probably right ,Cools. I'm not arsed to be honest. I might go stark staring bonkers,(not too far off anyway) but probably I won't be on my own. If anything that each and everyone of us can do to help another , we should , as we owe it to each other.

Referring to the above video, it was shown last night on BBC as an educational video for children in the present climate.

It's the darned stockpiling that's really annoying me. Some greedy people out there and some virtually starving whilst they wait ! It shows how selfish and thoughtless human nature actually is.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Mar 2020 10:59pm



Gibraltar is only a little population, I really hope they don't get hit.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Mar 2020 1:14am

Anti-bacterial soap is a con, its exactly what it says on the can, its soap with effectively a preservative in it which protects the soap. The antibacterial substances are nowhere near strong enough to disinfect your hands, certainly in the short time it is used. But I still buy it.

The countries most hit by the virus are (in order), Italy, Switzerland, Norway, Spain, Iran, Estonia, Denmark, South Korea, Quatar, Austria. We are way down the table in 29th position, China is 20th. Being an Island we are trailing behind in time but that will change.

Speaking to a friend today, he was so concerned about his wife's existing conditions and the risk of infecting her, he had forgotten that he also had a vulnerable condition. We normally meet once a week, we won't be doing that for a while.

A lot of self-employed people are suffering loss of income without any support from the Government. Businesses that have premises are getting financial support but those without aren't. Self-employed have had an enhancement to ESA but it is still considerably less than statutory sick pay for employees despite the amount of National Insurance (Class 2 and Class 4) the self-employed pay.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Mar 2020 1:51am

Originally Posted by muzzy2
If anyone gets it, would they be willing to post on here how they are affected, what they feel like, progression etc. Also how they think they caught it.
I think it would help us understand better what to do and best things to do to avoid if possible.
Seeing all this panic about hand gel, why not just try a spot of bleach to wash hands with?


No one has replied to Muzzy. Sorry.

I hope nobody on wiki contracts it, but if it should happen, I doubt they will feel well enough to be bothered about giving a review. Depending on the severity, I think DD suggested people should be better taking more exercise rather than resting. I can say with experience that if you are ill and can't breathe, there is no way anyone will be taking exercise. It's one of the most distressing things to suffer, add to that a temperature and exhaustion ( from not being able to breath) , probably not going anywhere too soon .

NB to Gibbo. Thank you for the link . Interesting info.
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Mar 2020 5:38pm

No need for hand gel just wash your hands for two minutes and for people coughing into Crook of the arm please remember that you need to wash your top ASAP and not leave it until wash day. Now that schools are to close we need to wash every time you touch a door or work top, just think everywhere someone hand has been can carry the virus
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Mar 2020 4:48pm

All job centres to close for 3 months from today
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 5:35pm

All pubs , restaurants, gyms etc told to close. I’m glad he’s paying most if wages for people forced to stay home, it was a big worry ..
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 6:06pm

Wirral Council have hinted that if bin collections are hit by staff absence they will stop collecting grey bins first as they aren't a health hazard.
Posted By: muzzy2

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 6:25pm

Is this for the whole country or just London?
Report in the Sun says across the capital and another states London.
Posted By: muzzy2

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 6:27pm

Well, they may go on strike anyway!
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 6:39pm

According to Wirral Globe website it's Wirral as well for closure of pubs, gyms, restaurants etc - though doing take-aways might be an option for some. At the same time, the binnies are being ballotted on strike action! You couldn't make it up... great timing, folks.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 8:45pm

While I partially support the bin men's argument, it most certainly isn't the time for anything more than a nominal show of strength, if they start a prolonged strike they surely realise they will lose all public support and do themselves no favour.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 8:59pm

LCR have lifted the 9:30am concessionary travel limit, this will enable pensioners etc to travel to get their shopping on the pensioners hour.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 9:28pm

I just don’t understand why they are doing this ...I realise it’s to try and help because of all the panic buyers but to put all these high risk people together in quite a small space surely is madness! Think it would be better for them to have designated time and stuff delivered..
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Mar 2020 9:47pm

I've just been watching Aljazeera . 627 deaths in Italy today. They also reported that WHO are saying that a significant number of under 50's are being hospitalised, and children are also susceptible . So as time passes it is looking as if the original prognosis could have been wrong.

There is a worldometer.info/ coronavirus giving all the figures . I will try to post it, but it's not coming through on here as available for myself (don't know why.).

So if someone can repost it, it's a very eye opening chart.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

(No its not working for me on here).
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Mar 2020 8:54am

There does seem to be conflicting accounts of the severity, some they say they have had it with mild symptoms and others struggling to breathe, and then we have the fatalities, it could be some have a stronger immunity system or there are varying degrees of infection, or those that believe they have had it may have mistaken their symptoms, but without testing to clarify everyone's in the dark about the true picture, but I do believe it is being played down a lot.
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Mar 2020 9:55am

what you can and can't do
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Mar 2020 4:38pm


Thanks for that assassin.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Mar 2020 4:40pm

Just logged into my Virgin media to check on things, and find they are still sending engineers out to install virgin cable and carry out repairs, our engineers will wear masks and gloves and and use hand gel and not stand too close, if you are self isolating you can cancel any visits, oh apparently they have been given training also, so much for not spreading the virus,calling on customer after customer in different locations on Wirral and North Wales it could be on clothing, shoes, tools, isn't Branson rich enough?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Mar 2020 5:52pm


I thought about people such as plumbers, gas boiler repairs etc. More specifically Estate Agents and house sales. Nobody is about to welcome viewers of properties into their home for a long period of time and the volatile market indicates house prices cold drop . Still, estate agents have made a packet over the years. Time for change.

I see John Lewis are to close ALL their stores on Monday and they probably won't be the last. A huge swing to shopping online, which will more than likely become the norm after this, being the next step into a Futuristic 21st century. Masks, white suits, clinical sterilization of all buildings...no sex, I'm sure I saw a film just like that back in the 70's .
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Mar 2020 7:29pm

Oh Granny you make me laugh and that’s hard to do in these sad times...back to this bloody corona I really do wish that they would order a lockdown NOW!! Just seen on news people flocking to the seasides, caravans arcades etc...people won’t take this seriously until they get ordered to and there must be army personnel on streets to stop everyone and make sure their trip is essential. Gangs of kids today wandering around and people and I got to say it old people talking in groups , overheard one say “oh well if we get it we get it, not going to stay in”...I felt like saying something but bit my tongue..I’m not against the oldies here because I’m one and maybe I shouldn’t have been out but I did keep my distance but I know without being ordered we will go out...horrible times these but I just want us all to get through it and I soppose can’t say back to normal as will it ever be again. Stay safe folks...
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Mar 2020 8:04pm

I was in a CED Stone yesterday they had a barrier one metre in front of the counter to keep staff and customers away from each other, I think everybody thought it reasonable. Only problems was using the card machine (most purchases there are over £30) but staff were wearing gloves, I guess I should set up apple-pay, google-pay or something to do contactless sales greater than £30 using my phone.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Mar 2020 8:29pm

Originally Posted by granny

I thought about people such as plumbers, gas boiler repairs etc. More specifically Estate Agents and house sales. Nobody is about to welcome viewers of properties into their home for a long period of time and the volatile market indicates house prices cold drop . Still, estate agents have made a packet over the years. Time for change.

I see John Lewis are to close ALL their stores on Monday and they probably won't be the last. A huge swing to shopping online, which will more than likely become the norm after this, being the next step into a Futuristic 21st century. Masks, white suits, clinical sterilization of all buildings...no sex, I'm sure I saw a film just like that back in the 70's .


I was thinking Logans Run, where they all twirl round on a carousel and off you pop, have mask and white suit will travel. wink

Attached picture nhs.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 12:34am

Poor simple minded Trump, he says ....

Quote
HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine. The FDA has moved mountains - Thank You! Hopefully they will BOTH (H works better with A, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents) be put in use IMMEDIATELY. PEOPLE ARE DYING, MOVE FAST, and GOD BLESS EVERYONE!


Medical world say

Quote
Hydroxychloroquine & Azithromycin should *NOT* be taken together because they increase the risk of fatal cardiac arrhythmia due to QTc prolongation.

Do NOT listen to Trump the president.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 11:23am

Just a thought.

Attached picture 4horse.jpg
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 11:39am


clap , Casper. We could do with a few more funnies to keep us all in the normal world.


DD, Trump humour is pretty baffling. Not sure if he's serious or not, most of the time.
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 1:04pm

Lol


Description: Lol
Attached picture coronavirus-funny-jokes-2033-5e74c90a082b7__700.jpg
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 1:12pm

Bbc news is on now 1pm Sunday, they are saying Italy and Sweden are on lock down and no one is aloud out, then in the same breath they say "we'll go over to our reporter out on the streets of Italy and Sweden (face palm)
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 3:12pm

DD, I'm amazed Trump can even pronounce those words - wonder how long he had to practise? Like the Lego set, assassin! I do wonder about those reporters overseas; maybe they have special dispensation? Wouldn't fancy it myself though, I'd rather be at home with my family.

Seems like we have a fine week ahead; that's good in some ways, as it lifts the spirits, but it will encourage a lot of people to go out and risk being too close to others when they shouldn't be.
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 4:34pm

6 ambulances have tyres drilled WTF IS WRONG WITH SOME PEOPLE
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 4:54pm

I echo your sentiments Assassin!! I hope they’re found and thrown in somewhere to rot!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 6:37pm

Youv'e got to feel sorry for Philip Schofield, he's just come out, and now he's got to stay in.

Attached picture pip.jpg
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 6:42pm

Keep it up Casper we need a bit of a laugh....I can’t believe what I’m seeing on news , talk about falling on deaf ears!! Crowds out and about as if it were just another bank holiday! I was really hoping for a lockdown NOW because some people apparently think , it’s all fake news no pandemic!!!
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 7:24pm

Only in America lol


Description: Lol
Attached picture funny-coronavirus-picture.jpg
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 7:40pm

raftl Get cracking !
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Mar 2020 9:54pm

Lots of non-food shops closing now, primark , the perfume shop and others, just saw McDonald’s closing as from 7 pm tomorrow night. Youngsters won’t like that but got too happen..
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Mar 2020 1:56am

Wirral Council Coronavirus helpline 0151 666 5050

Wirral Chamber of Commerce helpline 0151 650 6982 (for businesses).
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Mar 2020 1:31pm

Age UK helpline 0116 299 2239 for over seventies.
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Mar 2020 6:43pm

Boris Johnson is to address the nation at 8.30 tonight this will replace tv show on bbc1 and itv
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Mar 2020 7:42pm

@cools
Thank you. Big impact here, gets worse hour by hour. Seems the younger gen. don't get it.
Social Distancing etc. A lot of closed restaurants now offering pick up or delivery.
Wash your hands everyone.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Mar 2020 8:41pm

lockdown! About time , I’m glad and just hope they enforce it . Got too happen to give us a chance...
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Mar 2020 8:42pm

We are now on lock down
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Mar 2020 5:47pm


The staff probably got the first flight back home ! Overseas recruitment..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52014023
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Mar 2020 10:49am



Prince Charles has it

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52033845
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Mar 2020 1:06pm

Just to let people know if you're on benefits it will go up by £20 a week from the 6th of April this is for a year.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Mar 2020 1:58pm

If your MOT is due after the 30th of March then there will be a 6 month exemption, if your MOT is due before that date then you must have it tested or declared SORN.

You are still responsible for maintaining your car in a roadworthy condition even if MOT exempt.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 1:21am



Numbers going up in this area and also a big jump in Liverpool from a few days ago. 57 L'pool , 16 Wirral. Hampshire is top of the list with 251 cases , and I'm wondering if this is affecting the RN, based in Portsmouth ,Hampshire.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 8:45am

Looking at that excell , Nightingale Hospital in London, 4 thousand beds , 2 mortuaries. God help us ! Listen yesterday to an ex astronaut being interviewed, he said “ he hopes this is not Mother Nature kicking back else we’re done. See how the pollution has gone down! Keep waking up hoping for a miracle , so hard to be optimistic about this horrendous situation but that’s all we can do.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 10:29am



If it's not Mother Nature, then it's Satan. More inclined to think it's Satan, but Mother Nature will win in the end with a message for us all (hopefully) .
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 6:42pm

Some kind person have just posted an envelope containing a red card and a green card about 6x4 along with a note explaining usage, display green card if all ok display red card if in need of assistance, a good idea and so very thoughtful, well done.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 8:58pm

Police have created a rule that you are not allowed to take your car to go to a place to exercise.

Quote
Police have told people you can't get in your car and drive somewhere to walk your dog or exercise during the coronavirus crisis.


Quote
Now police are making it clear that exercise has to be done from your home - you are not allowed to drive to another location to either exercise or walk your dog.


Is this now becoming a police state?
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 9:13pm

Are you against that DD.? Have you seen the images if people in New Brighton , loads of people wandering along as if everything’s just normal! We’ve got a wave of deaths coming towards us and all you’re being asked is to stay at home , it’s damn hard I know and boring but if you have watched that programme tonight about the personal stories if the nhs staff having to face this bloody virus did that not get too you? Police state , army state bring it on , just do as you being told for gods sake!!
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 9:23pm

Sorry DD , sounds like I’m shouting at you there but feeling pretty despondent tonight and can’t understand why people can’t just follow the rules so that we have a fighting chance of getting through this...we’ve got to look at Italy because that’s what’s coming for us ..
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 10:16pm


Not sure about the police creating a new rule. Don't new rules have to be passed in law, and how with Parliament now in recess. ? An MP clearly said only yesterday that if getting exercise in a quiet location meant you needed to drive there, that was ok.
I also heard that New Brighton was teaming with people yesterday.
There's been a lot of traffic flying up and down my road today, much more than yesterday. I suppose supplies for the week have run out and it;s another supermarket dash for many, but so far as following speed limits , that seems to have gone to the wall !
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 10:17pm

It is far safer for me and other to drive to a quiet place for a walk rather than take a walk locally where everybody is walking.

People purposely going to relatively crowded places is the polar opposite to what I am saying and breaks other rules.

The only Government rule that approaches my topic is that it says to spend the minimum time outside of your house. But being inside your car is as safe as being inside your house and stop-start dodging of other walkers, shoppers, loiterers etc is hardly a fitness walk.

The Government has completely messed up with their rules, there are far too many uncertainties, if they had banned travelling to a place of exercise then fine, but they haven't stated that.

It now turns out that household tradesmen are being instructed to carry on as per normal for most of their customers but to only do emergencies for customers in isolation. Many self-employed people have already closed their businesses down on advice and information given before today but now they may have risked the financial support the Government is still fumbling over.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 10:30pm


Well, I think they were hoping people could behave in a sensible fashion and not consider everyone as a fool . They got that wrong too.
Personally , I think they have achieved a lot in just about 10 days.. Considering all things that need negotiation, logistics, statistics, travel, orders, quantities, all of these things involve other people in other places and other businesses, to actually get it all together with information necessary, must be a task of mega proportions.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 10:50pm

Trouble is DD , you do that , then joe Bloggs down the road follows suit then everyone do it . All driving into areas which quite frankly don’t want outside people coming to. Read today about a family all driving into Wales for the day , got turned back by the police. Wales don’t want people coming into them , everybody trying to keep it contained....I feel sorry for the government at the moment , think they’re trying their best in what is such a difficult and frightening situation.. they’re only human no matter how much you dislike them and having such responsibility must weigh heavy. I know they getting advised but still.. yes I do think they should be more clear on their instructions and definitely enforce stay at home, we should now be doing what Italy and Spain are doing ...
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 10:52pm



Maybe we should al be asking more questions about 'how'. This hasn't come from a bat.. no way. Spanish flu was another that they never found the source of. First known case was reported on a US military base !
I can't help thinking of the Skripal case too. Very convenient to blame Russia in the first few days, expel Russian diplomats from countries all over the world ... it tends to hide the possible truth, specifically when US had accused Russia of interfering in their elections. Why did the CIA want Skripal in the US ? What's the betting he's being interrogated now for something he knows nothing about. ( that could be fantasy)
I don't trust them one iota. All their tricks are basically coming to roost .
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 11:23pm

Going for a day out in Wales, Peak district etc is off limits just now, and should be, but I would have thought driving to the nearest reasonable park in your own area to take the dog for a good run (as only one a day is allowed) would be ok. If not, why did the council just waive parking fees at Wiral's country parks? On the one hand is common sense, on the other hand is seeing how far you can push it, which is daft and dangerous.

Speaking for my daughter's dog, a pavement walk in the neighbourhood wouldn't even blow the froth off the top; a good run in Royden Park or on the beach would do it.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 11:41pm

Well all carry on then....ive just watched a video of a Spanish doctor in Madrid crying because they now are having to take respirators from the over 65s and sedate them and leave them to die, alone. They are so overwhelmed with patients they have to make the decision to try and save the young.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Mar 2020 11:53pm

Its worth reading this https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/opinion/coronavirus-facts.html

Things to remember about viruses

Their tiny size (even though CV is one of the larger ones), the largest virus is roughly the same size as the smallest bacteria, billions on a pinhead etc

Their sheer numbers, they replicate in huge numbers, an infected person can have many millions or billions.

Their high replication means even with a low mutation rate, mutations are common. The larger the virus, the bigger the mutation rate, there is more to go "wrong".

BUT it only takes one single virus to infect a person.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Mar 2020 11:35am

My deepest wishes go to Boris!
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Mar 2020 11:49am

Boris has it
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Mar 2020 12:09pm

And Government announcing even deeper austerity cuts in the future.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Mar 2020 1:43pm

New CV information site from Wirral Council https://www.wirralinfobank.co.uk/
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 2:33am

Really good to see the authorities heading their own advice, the irony of some is overwhelming.

Prime Minister - Boris Johnson
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care - Matt Hancock
Chief Medical Officer for England - Chris Witty
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Mental Health, Suicide Prevention and Patient Safety - Nadine Dorries
Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport - Oliver Dowden

Any more?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 8:46am


Don't be sarcastic , DD. This is far more serious than that . They could have had it for a couple of weeks, and plus when we see the cases in all the London Boroughs, I imagine it's getting pretty tricky to avoid .

100 cases in Liverpool this am and Wirral increased to 32. Those figures are now increasing rapidly. Over 1000 cases throughout Merseyside, it was said last night, and we haven't even started !
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 11:32am

Not know if this is real or you're trolling

If Johnson self isolated from day one you would of said he needs to be out and about, I'm not a fan of Johnson but I would have him over corbin any day, I think myself that they are doing good, don't know what more they can do in these times, you always pull the government down if you find it so bad why not put your name down as a mp and see how you could do a better job, he is ill but instead of staying in bed he is working to help the rest us, please tell us what they should of done or what they are doing wrong now as you seem to know.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 1:10pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Really good to see the authorities heading their own advice, the irony of some is overwhelming.

Prime Minister - Boris Johnson
Secretary of State for Health and Social Care - Matt Hancock
Chief Medical Officer for England - Chris Witty
Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Mental Health, Suicide Prevention and Patient Safety - Nadine Dorries
Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport - Oliver Dowden

Any more?



Add Secretary of State for Scotland - Alister Jack
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 5:33pm

add to the mp list nhs workers, delivery drivers, shop assistants, , police, joe public..
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 6:40pm

Originally Posted by assassin
Not know if this is real or you're trolling

If Johnson self isolated from day one you would of said he needs to be out and about, I'm not a fan of Johnson but I would have him over corbin any day, I think myself that they are doing good, don't know what more they can do in these times, you always pull the government down if you find it so bad why not put your name down as a mp and see how you could do a better job, he is ill but instead of staying in bed he is working to help the rest us, please tell us what they should of done or what they are doing wrong now as you seem to know.


So you think he is doing a good job, instead of listening to Dominic Cummings with his herd immunity and looking after the economy, oh what was it he said so what if it kills a few pensioners, they might have been better prepared in ordering ventilators and ppe instead of leaving it to the last minute, they are still loathe to lock down completely, so we still have on foot in the other out, and if his government hadn't neglected the NHS and other aspects of social service we would be better placed again, to little to late.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 8:35pm

Will throw this into the mix. Always enjoy listening to Peter Hitchins but not sure what to make of this. Suggesting we have wrecked our country and economy by over reaction https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e66-8_JXq6o


Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 9:19pm

What a ridiculous argument Hitchens has, 20,000 die of flu therefore we shouldn't bother trying to prevent people dying of CV19 even though probably more are going to die of CV than flu.

Its like saying only ten people got crushed by a lamp post therefore we shouldn't bother trying to reduce road accidents.

The scale of CV19 in this country is unmeasured, we don't record how many people have coronavirus, we don't record how many have recovered and we aren't given the full figures for how many have died.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 10:43pm

Is any other country any different ? I doubt it. It's not even possible to have an inkling of numbers in many countries.

This I found interesting, from last week. Maybe this is why Germany's death rate in comparison to the actual cases is very much lower than other European countries .

https://euobserver.com/coronavirus/...XC35m4TZGBVgdhZ8yTMKmSnvD-4qzDKeWMHkxKpE

The EU commission on Thursday (19 March) said it will set up a stockpile of face masks, intensive care equipment and other essential medical gear to tackle shortages in member states.

The move comes after EU countries at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak have faced shortages of crucial medical equipment.

then it goes on to say

EU countries have criticised each other after several member states, such as Germany, banned the export of medical supplies.

Germany's economy ministry said on Wednesday that export licenses for the export of protective equipment to Italy, Switzerland and Austria had been issued. The 400,000 protective masks sent form Germany has arrived to Italy on Thursday.
"Export bans within the EU undermine both the solidarity on which the EU should be based, as well as mechanisms like the civil protection mechanism," Lenarcic said, calling for the removal of such bans.

To help Europe cope, China has offered to send 2.2 million masks and 50,000 testing kits to the EU, commission president Ursula von der Leyen said on Wednesday.

The world was very much caught by surprise by the force and speed of this virus," EU commissioner for crisis management Janez Lenarcic told reporters.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 10:58pm


Peter Hitchins has always been a bit of an odd ball.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 11:09pm


Buy British !

Maybe the NESARA story is after all, not so much a conspiracy, more of a ' wish to come true' ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NESARA
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Mar 2020 11:47pm

Germany and France banned medical exports before either were much infected - talk about shutting the door!

So there is a shortage of supplies now and so the EU is creating a stockpile??? Surely the creation of a stockpile will create a greater shortage?

UK CV deaths are only reported for those that die in hospital, there are a fair number of people dying at home. This is the case for some other countries as well, I can't remember which.

I've been out and about today in the car, pretty quiet, queues at some places, none in others.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 29th Mar 2020 11:25am

New York State has got infection rates 60% higher than Italy or Spain and Trump still won't quarantine. One in four hundred people are now infected (0.25%) there.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Mar 2020 8:55am

yuk
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Mar 2020 9:26am

Well, he's a cheery soul, isn't he?! All that is just another reason (among many, at the moment) to be glad I don't live in the US.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Mar 2020 2:15pm

When it comes to the subject of a bunch of greedy people looking after number 1 , lying to the populous ... at the cost of peoples lives and health .... it's not about being cheery !!!! Wouldn't matter if you lived in England with a few thousand or Dubai with 100 million pounds ... if the air , food and water supply are making Earth almost uninhabitable !!!! I think the Fukushima disaster is still spewing nuclear waste into the Pacific and 5G frying away invisibly!
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Mar 2020 2:16pm

Rest in peace to Michael
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Mar 2020 5:33pm

Police really need to get their act together in parts of the country and the Government obviously need to clarify.

Cyclist fined for cycling on roadways in Richmond Park.

Convenience stores told not to sell Easter Eggs even if they are legitimately open and the Eggs are in stock.

Social distancing was pretty much out the window by many in Asda Bromborough today, queues at checkouts which didn't help. people walking down the centre of aisles instead of one side to allow others to pass.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Mar 2020 10:50pm



There's one thing for sure that in the future, whoever the enemy might be, and the enemy can change as has been throughout the course of history, it's now proven that biological /chemical warfare could bring the world to it's knees.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Mar 2020 2:02am

As indeed nature has done numerous times in the past, just because we've had a relatively lucky run for the last 100 years doesn't mean we were impervious.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Mar 2020 6:12pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
As indeed nature has done numerous times in the past, just because we've had a relatively lucky run for the last 100 years doesn't mean we were impervious.


The way we live our lives is man made, and made for man.. We've gone too far, and don't know how to turn back. Simply heading towards a mammoth catastrophe, with hate and wars , famine and pestilence. cruelty and deaf ears.

Latest, Israel has demolishes a Palestinian Coronavirus Clinic. In Gaza 97% of water is undrinkable. I think that comes under 'cruelty and deaf ears' Nobody calls out for them. Why not ? If we want this virus beating, it has to be up to every country, not destroyed by another country, in the hope of destroying a race of people.

https://www.indcatholicnews.com/new...RjfbbblDuGhV-Kok-bhV9KdQ1XSzJ7bxBmWgt0Hk
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Mar 2020 7:16pm

Not forgetting Saudi are having a go at destroying Russia even at this critical time. This is our big chance to let bygones be bygones with Russia but have we got any decent diplomats to intervene?
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Mar 2020 9:13pm

When this comes to an end, if there is an end to it, the World leaders need to get hold of China and say this is how much you owe the World pay up now!
I read that the animal market over there is open again selling cats and dogs, so it all going to start again, i must make a call to the Mother-ship and go home!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Mar 2020 10:10pm

Originally Posted by keef666
When this comes to an end, if there is an end to it, the World leaders need to get hold of China and say this is how much you owe the World pay up now!
I read that the animal market over there is open again selling cats and dogs, so it all going to start again, i must make a call to the Mother-ship and go home!


If the disease was in the market then it was out there elsewhere, it was only a matter of time before it jumped to a human.

How can it be China's fault, they were blind-sided by nature, other countries had advanced warning and didn't manage to contain it except for South Korea who were the only country to listen to China.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 1st Apr 2020 12:35am

Originally Posted by keef666
When this comes to an end, if there is an end to it, the World leaders need to get hold of China and say this is how much you owe the World pay up now!
I read that the animal market over there is open again selling cats and dogs, so it all going to start again, i must make a call to the Mother-ship and go home!



It won't come to an end. It's here now just like flu, and until an effective vaccine is found it will continue. Experts are already talking about it returning next winter.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 11:47am


The Great Levelling Out.

My goodness, things are now beginning to crash. Could be the best thing for us. Globalisation knocked on the head, and begin our own industries and manufacturing again.
I fail to see how the EU as a whole will survive this.

The biblical meaning of 'free will' , has well and truly been taken from away us. Time for reflection on the meaning of life . We have found out we are not in control of anything when the unexpected raises it's head.
Scary but interesting times .

Interestingly, Japan has had very few cases and deaths considering they were one of the first countries to have a confirmed case.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 12:34pm

There are a lot of stories that Japan is hiding the CV figures in an attempt to retain the Olympics go ahead. We shall find out in the next few weeks, you can only hide the figures for so long.

The EU (ie Germany) will learn lessons from Brexit and make the other countries highly financially dependent on the EU and face fiscal disaster/punishment should they leave.

It all depends whether Germany can hold its economy together, there were major cracks appearing before CV, if they think they need to disband the EU project for their own recovery they will.

Then France has suddenly got illusions of grandeur and believe they can take over Germany's leading position of the EU, considering France's economy is roughly the same as the UK's but less stable, they haven't got a hope in hell.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 12:43pm

anyone actually believe the news item today that "new research shows germs spread by coughing sneezing may reach 6 to 8m from a person and therefore masks might be a good idea" Come on flu has been around decades even coronavirus in one form or another since the 1960s and they have only just decided to do research on how far germs can carry from one person to another. We are being controlled (which is not necessarily a bad thing) with drip fed information. Watched a panorama programme years ago following the tube bombings and they had a mock cobra emergency type meeting and the one thing that struck me was the bit about what narrative they should put out to the main stream media to "control" public reactions etc..
The Govt walking a tightrope between creating enough fear and panic to get us to abide by the guidelines and yet not cause too much panic that may result in civil unrest. I think some of the police actions designed for the same purpose..e.g the drone cams following walkers in Derbyshire and the recent one of fining a lady £700 under the new Cronoavirus powers for something which a few days earlier was legal (i.e.not having to give your name or other information to the Police). It doesnt necessarily change what is actually happening in the country. I had a quick look at NHS stats ,over last 4 years ,for the places where you are most likely to catch "normal" flu (not sure if it added and die from it) but it was roughly over 75%+ care homes, 10% hospital, 10% schools and 2% elsewhere.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 1:14pm

Yes, I believe the distance, its been demonstrated many times in the past, the common colds unit alone did extensive studies and there have been many reports since. There is probably confusion between the spread of droplets, fine mist (aerosol) and the virus particles themselves without a host substance. A lack of understanding between scientists and politicians doesn't help, when the scientist says the virus is quite heavy and falls fast, this doesn't mean it drops at your feet, its not a lead cannonball (and yet we know how far they can travel!).

Masks do not make a lot of difference to a recipient, however they make a large difference as a infected donor because it reduces the release speed of particles.

Viruses are very small things, no mask is capable of blocking them, if one is sitting on your mask it has a chance of working its way through the mask over time as you breath - if you change your mask every few minutes it would help somewhat.

What hasn't been talked about in the UK is the aerosoling of faeces, just the act of flushing a toiling after an infected person uses it puts up a very fine aerosol which can contain the virus and spread it around. This was missed in the early days in China and is thought to have significantly contributed to the spread of the virus. Obviously there are other methods of aerosol occurring including flatulence.
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 4:03pm

Coronavirus: Little and Large comedian Eddie Large dies 'after contracting COVID-19 in hospital very sad new today
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 5:28pm

yes DD i believe the distance just that its not new research.. research would have been around for decades and used for a host of products, masks, clean room equipment, . Simple mask/visor can be made using a plastic sleeve you use in ring binders and a plastic hair band threaded through it.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 9:41pm

With regard to distancing in general, it seems it's being very patchily adhered to. Supermarkets seem to vary widely in their adherence to distancing guidelines, spreading out queues, number of people allowed in etc. I was talking to someone who said that Asda Bromborough had every till open today, in defiance of distancing - Greasby Co-op only has two out of four operating - so much for protecting shoppers! Not impressed, Asda. I think a lot of how well it is observed is down to individual managers. I won't be going there. Come to that, I wouldn't go anyway, it's too far, but you take my point!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 10:21pm

Originally Posted by assassin
Coronavirus: Little and Large comedian Eddie Large dies 'after contracting COVID-19 in hospital very sad new today


Sad news, again. However, he was not a well man.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Apr 2020 10:27pm

Originally Posted by Greenwood
With regard to distancing in general, it seems it's being very patchily adhered to. Supermarkets seem to vary widely in their adherence to distancing guidelines, spreading out queues, number of people allowed in etc. I was talking to someone who said that Asda Bromborough had every till open today, in defiance of distancing - Greasby Co-op only has two out of four operating - so much for protecting shoppers! Not impressed, Asda. I think a lot of how well it is observed is down to individual managers. I won't be going there. Come to that, I wouldn't go anyway, it's too far, but you take my point!


Yes, agreed. Steer clear of the supermarkets if at all possible.

Talking to someone in Kent tonight, they were saying that the number of cars on the roads, and in the small towns has been staggeringly increasing in the last 24 hrs. People are obviously thinking they can get away with it, after being locked up for a week.

I am flabbergasted tonight to see France's death rate over the last 24 hrs......... 1,355
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 12:02am

Originally Posted by Greenwood
With regard to distancing in general, it seems it's being very patchily adhered to. Supermarkets seem to vary widely in their adherence to distancing guidelines, spreading out queues, number of people allowed in etc. I was talking to someone who said that Asda Bromborough had every till open today, in defiance of distancing - Greasby Co-op only has two out of four operating - so much for protecting shoppers! Not impressed, Asda. I think a lot of how well it is observed is down to individual managers. I won't be going there. Come to that, I wouldn't go anyway, it's too far, but you take my point!



staff off sick ? should restrict numbers entering. My lad is assistant manager at a shop with 2 other staff and they limit it to 2 people at a time with the door locked but still getting people just wanting to browse and buy nothing
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 8:59am

Browsing is a difficult one. For people, particularly those alone, who've been used to popping into the shops more or less daily for a bit of company and a few odds and ends, it must be distressing to be so limited - as it is for so many! Maybe they're clinging to that habit, not realising how difficult it makes things for others.
Posted By: missmahjong

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 10:55am

Strange about Asda in Bromborough having all the tills manned, in Birkenhead they are on every other one , you would think a big company would have the same rules in place .
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 11:59am

news The shocker for me .... is that the powerful and rich are still breathing
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 12:01pm

The Express newspaper has just reported that 5g ( which first was trialled in Wuhan) and Coronavirus both feature on the new 20 pound note .... shaking my damned head
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 12:48pm

Originally Posted by GaryFromWirral
news The shocker for me .... is that the powerful and rich are still breathing



Why a shocker ? Explain what you mean, because if it's what I think you mean , then yours is a ridiculous attitude. What denotes 'rich'. Doctors , Scientists , Teachers, MP's ?
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 1:09pm

Yes, you'd think so, missmahjong; maybe managers need to be monitored more closely to make sure they comply.
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 1:15pm

Maybe the rich in your eyes have big houses so don't feel locked in, have a floor in the house just for a gym and got the money to fly in food so don't need to go out and the nanny will have the kids, I'm rich I have a family that I love and they love me I feel that's all you need at the end of the day.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 2:02pm

mr mayor
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 2:03pm

too kind covered in Covid .... pure evil
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 2:04pm

Why a shocker .... because there are people dying !!
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 2:15pm

News my opinion may be ridiculous but this lady flew away with her kids to escape a rich , powerful , still breathing man
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 2:37pm

https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3104&context=historical
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 2:41pm

I suppose these people mentioned above are still breathing and being all powerful ... lol
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 3:18pm

Queen Elizabeth to address nation on April 5 at 8pm over coronavirus pandemic
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 6:58pm

A Merseyside man was jailed for six months today for spitting and coughing at a hospital nurse.

David Newton attacked the nurse as she tried to monitor his heart rate in the emergency unit at Arrowe Park Hospital, Wirral.

The staff nurse had just come back from her break at 1.15am, on April 2, and was asked to monitor the heart rate of a man calling himself Michael Collins who was in the waiting area.

She called that name and he came into the cubicle and appeared calm but the nurse could smell alcohol on him.

However, once in the cubicle the 50-year-old then started to throw himself around the trolley, which made it difficult to connect the device to monitor his heart, and then he started to cough and spit at her.

Newton was asked to stop, but instead he kicked out and began to swear.

The Liscard man, who also said he was a drug addict, then jumped off the trolley, kicked chairs and a bin, and coughed and spat in the nurse's direction.

Police were called at around 1.15am and Newton was led away to custody.

Today, his case was fast-tracked at Wirral Magistrates Court and he was sentenced to six months in jail, and ordered to pay £300 compensation.

Newton admitted assaulting an emergency worker. From Granada Reports

Attached picture stream_img.jpg
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 9:50pm

Originally Posted by GaryFromWirral
I suppose these people mentioned above are still breathing and being all powerful ... lol


Maybe you should have used the word 'corrupt' rather than 'rich' . The corrupt hugely lack compassion for anyone but themselves and their greed by defrauding others. Don't let them get to you, be at peace with yourself, and know you try to carry no guilt. The majority of people are good and as is now being shown , very caring for each other.
The 'rich' are contributing much to this present cause, and without them to bolster certain areas of need, we as a country would at this moment in time be a lot poorer.
Leave the crooks behind you and let them wallow is their own mess.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Apr 2020 10:52pm

Just hoping that the bad guys stop with their silliness as it makes the world almost unbearable at times.
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Apr 2020 12:01am

Is the BBC fear mongering or telling it like it is. I am confused (and scared).
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Apr 2020 4:26am

Originally Posted by snowshoes
Is the BBC fear mongering or telling it like it is. I am confused (and scared).


With clowns in charge we should be scared, a week ago UK government promised they had ordered 3.5 million home testing kits - they haven't ordered them yet, they haven't even decided which one to order or whether they want to test for the disease or test for immunity or both.

China has tamed its progression by sticking guns in people's faces - but its not over, the disease is still around and there are a lot of people not immune to it, it could escalate very fast.

I suspect over the next few days the death rate in America will start the big climb (two weeks after the cases started escalating), the scale of that will soon be unprecedented. I believe that will trigger a complete re-think to many countries.

UK promised a new measuring system to include deaths outside hospital and to state recoveries, this hasn't gone mainstream yet. In the mean time we have a false sense of security with overstated current infections and understated deaths - these give a conveniently low index for the Government to feel smug about - but its not reality.

Claims that many in the UK were infected early without symptoms is guesswork/propaganda. While this can be demonstrated by manipulation of the infection rates, the death rates don't tally with that theory unless the UK strain of CV has a strange behaviour compared to the earlier strains elsewhere but later data seems to say otherwise. The commonest strain in the UK might have originated as a mutation in the UK from the sketchy information we have to date.

I have no idea what Canada's progression has been like nor what actions they are taking. As they were relatively late to the game lets hope they have had time to learn lessons from others, especially their southern neighbours.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Apr 2020 9:57am


They have already ordered 3.5 million testing kits and will be rolled out once the efficiency has been assured. Public Health England have said they will test some kits in the laboratories. So nothing happens overnight, and not much point in having testing kits if they aren't efficient.
So from the time of ordering (25 th March) to despatch, to delivery, to testing... maybe these people should be working 24 hrs a day instead of 18 hrs a day ?? Would that make people happier or would it be criticized because they are working too hard ? Looks like a no win situation !

Can't understand why the Government would want to feel smug. I would have thought the greater the numbers released, the more fear put into the people to keep them at home.

Canada is making moves for medical supplies probably at around the same time as UK Government did with regard to numbers of cases and ordering necessary kits, so to constantly berate a situation of which is constantly under high pressure at the moment, is in my opinion unfair considering so many companies have turned their production into making equipment. The whole world needs these supplies, worst hit countries I assume would be at the top of the list, and maybe UK aren't first in the queue !

From the news yesterday, Trump has said he's not going to supply Canada with medical exports. I'm sure Snowshoes knows about this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-52161402/trudeau-mistake-to-block-us-medical-exports-to-canada?intlink_from_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Fus_and_canada&link_location=live-reporting-map

Noted that Labour leader still can't get off his 'activist' platform. NOTHING would ever please that grumpy old fart, but I will say that Yvette Cooper spoke well the other night.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Apr 2020 1:55pm

Originally Posted by granny
They have already ordered 3.5 million testing kits and will be rolled out once the efficiency has been assured. Public Health England have said they will test some kits in the laboratories. So nothing happens overnight, and not much point in having testing kits if they aren't efficient.


The story and excuses changed day by day indicating they are/were covering up.

Is it one supplier or multiple suppliers? That changes.

Are the ones that arrived contaminated or where ones delivered to other countries contaminated? That changed.

Are they virus test kits or immunity test kits? That changed.

A lot of things changed AFTER they claimed to have PURCHASED! (they used the word "purchased" not "ordered")

Did they really purchase BEFORE they were known to be effective? That wouldn't make sense.

Why were the different UK manufactures not used as the suppliers, they are exporting to other countries. That doesn't make sense.

Other countries have been using test kits extensively for weeks, have these not already been peer tested?

Originally Posted by granny
Noted that Labour leader still can't get off his 'activist' platform. NOTHING would ever please that grumpy old fart.


The Labour Leader is younger than you or I, how can the Leader of the Opposition not take an "activist" role, they are not in power?

The UK Government buried its head in the sand for weeks, South Korea despite having less time didn't. Look at the difference in outcomes.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Apr 2020 2:27pm


Apparently it was Pubic Health England who instructed the Government.

You ask a lot of questions there DD. so I assume you don't have the answers and none of us do , we can only surmise.

Watching al Jazeera earlier, Spain made an order for medical equipment from China. China dropped it off for transfer in Ankara. Turkey won't release it as they want to hold onto it in case they need the supplies.
US won't lift sanctions on Iran and Syria, so that they can access the European banks to get much needed funding for supplies.
With all this confusion, this pandemic will not be cleared for at least another 6 months or much longer. The world should be working together, Russia has flown supplies into Europe, China has flown supplies into other countries, Germany and US want to hold on to theirs , Spain can't get theirs, our are lost in the pipeline ... how many more ? Africa hasn't even been given a wink or a nod yet !
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Apr 2020 5:03pm

Yes, Trump has told 3m not to ship medical supplies to Canada, It's becoming quite
an issue here. Mainly N95 masks. Some of the material in those masks are produced here in Canada. Trudeau said this AM that millions of them are to arrive in the next few days
from China.
Donny better be careful. 2000 nurses who live in Windsor Ont. travel over the border
every day to work in hospitals in Detroit Mich.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 9:38am

Originally Posted by snowshoes
Yes, Trump has told 3m not to ship medical supplies to Canada, It's becoming quite
an issue here. Mainly N95 masks. Some of the material in those masks are produced here in Canada. Trudeau said this AM that millions of them are to arrive in the next few days
from China.
Donny better be careful. 2000 nurses who live in Windsor Ont. travel over the border
every day to work in hospitals in Detroit Mich.


Trudeau is probably one of the most decent leaders in the world today, I do hope his hand is not forced into playing the same game as Trump but Donald might reap what he sows.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 9:41am

must be an awful lot of doctors, nurses, registrars ,clerks all around the country involved in the conspiracy theory of fiddling the numbers of deaths.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 10:38am

Originally Posted by fish5133
must be an awful lot of doctors, nurses, registrars ,clerks all around the country involved in the conspiracy theory of fiddling the numbers of deaths.


How? They might know the rough numbers for their own hospital, they would not know the numbers for all the hospitals that are added together.

If I told you there are 23000 packets of toilet rolls on shop shelves at the moment. You couldn’t say if that is true or false by looking in your local supermarkets.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 11:15am


Dear me, how can a Government continue to support Al Qaeda affiliates that are based all over Idlib and infiltrated with terrorists ISIS and Muslim Brotherhood . DO they support the killing and persecuting Christians in the Christian villages , the burning of churches , forcing the villagers to run, same ones as those who try to make their way across the Greek border to Europe. Are they happy with supporting such things ? Probably, as BBC are about to be all inclusive and have Islamic Prayers of the local radio stations every morning . We can bend so far back almost horizontally for some , to make a statement, but always forget those who truly suffer.

Yesterday :

Britain offers $100 million more to al-Q'da dominated Idleb Province, 'to help with Coronavirus threat', but nothing to the rest of Syria where Covid19 has arrived and tens of millions of innocents are suffering the consequences of international sanctions... This partial 'assistance' and failure to lift sanctions will only prolong the suffering of millions and hinder efforts to progress peace... sadly it gets harder to believe that that is not the deliberate intention.

Today:

probably through the beloved 'White Helmets' who are embedded exclusively with al-Q'da linked groups and who have nothing to do with the vast majority of Syrians and no connection with Syrian welfare agencies or bodies.
++
Maybe you can respond to the author and let him know, he is on the wrong side of history. That Britain is supporting radical ISIS atrocities against Syrian civilians.
++

I and others have regularly informed the British government of these facts, of which the British government and foreign office are well aware. That information is ignored.
++

I have emailed some UK Parliamentarians about this, and a formal question to Parliament on the matter is being considered.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 11:19am

Oh, and I've seen a ' selfie ' this am of a group of nursing staff in a Liverpool hospital with the full protective coverings, giving the thumbs up sign.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 3:06pm

Arrowe Park Hospital got a massive delivery of face masks yesterday.
Posted By: philmch

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 3:27pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

As of last night, Wirral has 147 confirmed cases out of a population of over 323,000. That's approx 0.046% of our population.

The majority of those will survive. Realistically, you have more chance of catching flu or a cold.

Cases are still increasing though. It hasn't peaked yet. Stay safe but don't worry too much.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 3:45pm

Originally Posted by philmch
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

As of last night, Wirral has 147 confirmed cases out of a population of over 323,000. That's approx 0.046% of our population.

The majority of those will survive. Realistically, you have more chance of catching flu or a cold.

Cases are still increasing though. It hasn't peaked yet. Stay safe but don't worry too much.


While that is partially true, it is highly misleading, we do NOT record the number of coronavirus cases in the UK, if you have coronavirus you do not report it, the guidelines clearly say not to phone 111 nor your doctor unless your symptoms are so severe your life is in danger. Basically we have only been reporting the number of hospitalised cases so far.

In reality 50% of the Wirral might have or have had coronavirus but do you want to be responsible for it infecting a high risk person, or a whole nursing home?

CV is roughly three times more infectious than flu, that is why it has spread so fast. Coronavirus has already killed three times more people in the UK than flu did last winter and we have a long way to go yet.
Posted By: philmch

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 4:09pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


While that is partially true, it is highly misleading, we do NOT record the number of coronavirus cases in the UK, if you have coronavirus you do not report it, the guidelines clearly say not to phone 111 nor your doctor unless your symptoms are so severe your life is in danger. Basically we have only been reporting the number of hospitalised cases so far.

In reality 50% of the Wirral might have or have had coronavirus but do you want to be responsible for it infecting a high risk person, or a whole nursing home?

CV is roughly three times more infectious than flu, that is why it has spread so fast. Coronavirus has already killed three times more people in the UK than flu did last winter and we have a long way to go yet.


Yes, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I'm not suggesting that anyone should risk infecting anyone else. We can only go by official figures. Everything else is speculation.

The UK has a population of 65.64 million and so far, there have been 47,806 CONFIRMED cases. That's currently approx 0.073% of the population. It's interesting how some of the deaths are being reported as "person x died WITH Coronovirus" rather than "person x died OF Coronovirus". This suggests that it may or may not have been a contributing factor in those deaths.

I say the safest thing is to maintain social distancing and hand washing. It's not over yet.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 4:26pm

Coronavirus leads to pneumonia (because of build up of fluid and debris in the lungs) or I should imagine heart failure because of fever. No doubt it can create numerous other complications. I believe most deaths are a shortage of oxygen one way or another, the lungs aren't allowing the passage of oxygen due to either the amount of physical damage or flooding, in Italy they put a pressurised hood over the patients heads to literally force oxygen through the lung walls - its all about partial pressures.

There is always an ongoing discussion about how deaths are recorded, if you have a heart attack after a car accident, what killed you? Blunt force trauma or heart failure? Most deaths are complex with one problem leading to another, there is no finite answer to how they should be recorded. If an underlying cause such as CV triggers other factors then the cause of death should include CV as a contributory factor, if CV aggravates another factor then its not so clear cut - eg supposing an old person with pneumonia, asthma and a dodgy ticker catches CV.

No doubt there are coding structures but there will still be a lot of judgement involved.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 8:40pm

Boris has been hospitalised, I doubt it will be NHS Nightingale.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 8:46pm

Does it matter DD! Give the man a break!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 9:04pm

Originally Posted by cools
Does it matter DD! Give the man a break!


I thought it does matter that our Prime Minister has been admitted to hospital.

It also matters that he did sod all for 8 weeks when he should have been replenishing stocks of PPE.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 9:17pm



Carrie Symonds has also been diagnosed with this virus. That's very worrying with her being pregnant.
Posted By: philmch

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 9:39pm

As of tonight, Wirral now has 168 confirmed cases; an increase of 21 from yesterday.

This is very interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number

Looking at the RH chart, measles at the top has an R0 of 12-18. This is why it's important for kids to have the MMR jab.
By comparison, COVID 19 has an R0 of 1.4-3.9 putting it lower than the common cold but higher than flu.
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 9:57pm

Wouldn't that of been the health minister job dd not johnsons
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 10:15pm

On major matters the decision maker is the Prime Minister, it was the PM who dictated our approach to CV against WHO recommendations, it became very clear he only read the first paragraph on herd immunity and didn't check the detail.

Interesting that the BBC4 pandemic program only used an R0 of 1.8, whilst CV has a wide range the accepted average at the moment is mostly 2.2 but some countries are using values around 3. But even at R0=1.8 it was a devastating outcome with 66% infected and over 800,000 deaths using a 2% mortality rate over a period of 3 months.

In the program it states about the policy of slowing down the virus, what happened between 2017 and 2020?
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 10:29pm

Meanwhile in America .... Dr Charles Lieber , Head of Harvard blah blah ...... has been arrested on suspicion of manufacture and distribution of a bio weapon etc etc ! Things people do for money
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 10:48pm

Originally Posted by GaryFromWirral
Meanwhile in America .... Dr Charles Lieber , Head of Harvard blah blah ...... has been arrested on suspicion of manufacture and distribution of a bio weapon etc etc ! Things people do for money

No, he hasn't been charged with anything to do with biology (he isn't a biologist, he is nano-materials), he has been charged with failing to disclose his financial links, it is an administrative crime.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Apr 2020 11:25pm

Yeah ok whatever dd
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Apr 2020 2:21am

Originally Posted by GaryFromWirral
Yeah ok whatever dd


Here is the DOJ rap sheet, notice the word "separate", the three cases are nothing to do with each other, they just happened to be charged at the same time. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harv...als-charged-three-separate-china-related
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Apr 2020 7:23pm

Boris Johnson symptoms have worsen, please refrain from name calling, or sagging off at this time, think what you would say to your grandparents at this time
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Apr 2020 7:43pm

Sad to hear he is in intensive care, I wish him well.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Apr 2020 9:32pm


Yes, really worrying . I think they are being careful with the information and so they should be. I feel sorry for Carrie too, she must be going through it.
Wishes for a speedy recovery .
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Apr 2020 11:52am

Yes, very worrying. Wishing him and Carrie a speedy recovery.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Apr 2020 4:37am

Compare our projections to other countries, the last graph scary.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-kingdom
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Apr 2020 7:36am

Data collated by the University of Washington. There seems to be a lot of uncertainty and speculation in those graphs and given the way the US has reacted to the crisis generally so far, I'm not going to lose any sleep over that. I'll stick to gov.uk I think. Too much dwelling on possibilities would certainly lead to loss of sleep!
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Apr 2020 1:11pm

Here in New Brighton today on my 2 minute walk to the local shop for milk I must have seen 50 people acting like there is nothing going on !! maybe their sunglasses will protect them ?!
Posted By: assassin

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Apr 2020 10:37pm

Sods Law not been out for 3 weeks had food delivered yesterday, woke up today with a dry cough and banging head ache my temperature is 103.1F 39.5C rang 111 who said self isolate, for 14 days to 3 weeks, feeling like s hit I'm off to bed don't think I'll be on here much as I'm trying to get better x
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Apr 2020 10:44pm

Hope you feel better soon. Do as they say.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Apr 2020 10:49pm

Hang in there, Assassin!
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 7:11am

Get well soon Assassin...
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 8:05am


Gosh, where you picked that up from ? Wishing you well again asap.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 10:10am


Am I reading this correctly ?

Coronavirus: Greater Manchester Police warning after 660 parties shut down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-52221688
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 10:23am

Simple punishment for them, they can clean the floors in the new field hospitals we are building.

Another reason we shouldn’t legalise drugs.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 10:36am

Originally Posted by assassin
Sods Law not been out for 3 weeks had food delivered yesterday, woke up today with a dry cough and banging head ache my temperature is 103.1F 39.5C rang 111 who said self isolate, for 14 days to 3 weeks, feeling like s hit I'm off to bed don't think I'll be on here much as I'm trying to get better x


For your sake, let’s hope you wake up tomorrow perfectly fine and this was a false alarm. Stranger things have happened,
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 12:15pm

I've also just seen on the BBC headlines that two men arrested , licking their hands and smearing all the fruit veg and freezer handles in a supermarket, a Sainsbury's in Morecambe...what the hell goes through their minds , in some countries they'd be shot on the spot! Hope they get locked in a cell and key thrown away!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 1:34pm

If the police want to completely alienate themselves from the public they are going about it the best way. I hope this story is made up or greatly elaborated by the newspaper. Hopefully Nick Adderley will get a slap over the back of the head if he doesn't withdraw from this statement.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...olleys-searched-police-lockdown-18067736

Again its partly the Government's fault, in times of crisis their instructions should be crystal clear.

It was also stated by at least one minister that if you go shopping there is nothing wrong with buying whatever else is in stock at the same time. Additionally the Government has stated the sale of alcohol is permitted which would indicate the opposite of what Nick Adderley is saying.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 2:08pm



Lunchtime news North West , indicated that Merseyside police will be stopping and asking drivers of their intentions about this weekend.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 2:21pm

Originally Posted by granny
Lunchtime news North West , indicated that Merseyside police will be stopping and asking drivers of their intentions about this weekend.

I have no problem with that, it is sensible, proportionate, not threatening and not invading your privacy.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Apr 2020 2:45pm

That's fair enough. The idea of searching trolleys is a bit extreme, unless they're trying to stop people buying a partysworth of alcohol or something and nip such events in the bud - I'd have thought they'd have enough on their plate without that, if the stats on number of gatherings in Greater Manchester already reported is anything to go by. What planet are these partygoers on, FFS?!*
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Apr 2020 5:21am

Here he is, media was exaggerating a bit.
Posted By: philmch

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Apr 2020 8:28am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000h3nm/horizon-2020-coronavirus-special-part-1

Very informative programme from last night.

Proper empirical scientific stuff. None of your 5G conspiracy theorist crap.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Apr 2020 11:09am

Thanks for the tip - will catch it on iplayer. I see in the Radio Times that there's a second part coming up, too.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Apr 2020 8:37pm

How many times have I heard "don't blame the Government", well I do, after all this is over there needs to be a public inquiry over the whole mismanagement of this crisis.

Despite having much more warning time than Italy, we have managed to achieve worst stats, 980 deaths in one day which is more than Italy or Spain had at their peak. And we aren't at our peak yet.

The Government was totally ill-prepared and acted far to late on everything they did. Yet again the Tories have caused significant numbers of people to die.

May they rot in hell!
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Apr 2020 10:15pm

Mistakes will not be forgotten and they will not be forgiven. All their 'long-term under-funding of Police, NHS, Social care etc' chickens will be coming home to roost.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 1:35pm

Originally Posted by Greenwood
Mistakes will not be forgotten and they will not be forgiven. All their 'long-term under-funding of Police, NHS, Social care etc' chickens will be coming home to roost.


The trouble is they will be forgotten, Matt Hancock on the news trying to blag his way out of the PPE crisis, blaming logistical problems the alleged millions of sets of PPE ready to roll, lets look at weight and volume for transportation, masks, gloves, aprons, it doesn't take a genius to work out, I remember being on the reserve list when the Falklands was on and extra vehicles were available from TA units and TA drivers to run stuff to Southhampton if they are that short, and to top that he is basically saying re - use some of the ppe stuff, if that doesn't stink of shortage what does? in the meantime those in need are left to there own devices, criminal that's all I can say, If it was a company the HSE would have stepped in, serious and imminent danger i.e the possible loss of life.
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 2:05pm

Yes and i blame the government, they had plenty of time to get this sorted, and sick and tied of hearing "Protect the NHS!" so there asking us because they can't do it! when you think of the Billions that gets pumped into the NHS and the number of deaths this country is having compared to Spain and Italy and they don't have an NHS, is appalling!
My neighbour works in an ambulance station and they can't get hold of PPE for crews who have to transport people with COVID 19, because the NHS won't release it.
I think back to a story i read at the end of November last year about a new kind of flu someone had caught in Thailand and thought that if that starts spreading the Worlds in for a heap of trouble?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 5:31pm

Originally Posted by keef666
Y..... into the NHS and the number of deaths this country is having compared to Spain and Italy and they don't have an NHS, is appalling!

Yes they do.

Spain has the 7th best healthcare system in the World "Sistema Nacional de Salud" SND

Italy has the 2nd best healthcare system in the World "Servizio Sanitario Nazionale" SSN
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 5:44pm

Just watched Pritti Patel, supposed apology, more like a disgusting display of indifference, also denying that any of the deaths of NHS staff are due to the shortage of PPE, a death toll of nearly 10,000 and god knows how many more, heartbreaking.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 5:56pm

In Romania ten babies got infected in a maternity ward, caught from the staff who didn't wear masks (parents were tested clear). And now we have Matt Hancock dictating where NHS staff MUST NOT wear PPE, even the whole of Monty Python's satire couldn't get close to this.

And still the mainstream media are not holding the Government to account, more space given to Boris's recovery than the 10,000 deaths so far.

It is very very late but the Government could pull their finger out to limit even more unnecessary deaths.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 7:50pm



Not sure what angle this is coming from. Yes, medical staff and nursing staff have fallen to this virus, which is very sad . On the other side the 10,000 deaths are not resulting from NHS staff not having the correct PPE.
It's not possible to issue everyone in the country with masks but w could make them ourselves if we want them. The public as you know, have been remiss in following guidelines , which has undoubtedly contributed to the high figures.
We also had the issue of China putting a ban on exports of PPE in March, which is where we had placed our orders (or some of them) . WHO have also been remiss in their guidelines, the orders we got for PPE from Europe arrived by sea into Liverpool because they could not come across land. That was another hold up and how long does it take to get supplies to fill 3,500 containers to be shipped from various countries in the EU.
Once arrived in the UK, contents of 3,500 containers had to be unloaded, passed by customs, collected by transporting companies, despatched to suppliers, stocks checked and counted, and then by transport companies delivered to the NHS for delivery. Then sent to all the hospitals, prisons , care homes throughout the UK.
How long do you think all that takes ?

10,000 deaths are not the result of lack of PPE.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 8:48pm

You can't make effective masks yourself, an N95 mask is difficult to make without specialist materials, a IIR rated mask even more so. Italy was using respirators, I doubt if the NHS even has staff respirators in any noticeable numbers.

Without loads of aprons the cross contamination rates increase.

Without sufficient PPE less staff can be used, many people with CV weren't even tested, the hospitals sent them home.

What happened to our national reserves of emergency equipment, they know the annual flu can have epidemics.

There are more facts coming out. Some deaths are partly being caused by improper use of ventilators because most hospitals don't have a fully trained specialist and there has been too little research into the use of ventilators.

BCG is very effective in reducing CV rates but we stopped routinely giving that in 2005 and it starts wearing off after 15 years. We should be ramping up the production of the BCG vaccine as a backup plan.

Substantial numbers of the 10,000 deaths were caused by the slowness of the Government to react in a sensible manner. We had much more time than many other countries to prepare ourselves but Boris thought that waving his tongue would frighten the virus away.

The UK totally ignored WHO's recommendations both before and after the start of CV, you can't reverse blame on WHO. The Government even ignored its own recommendations let alone anybody else's.

The NHS is often called the most efficient health service in the world, that is because of what it achieves with so little money compared to other countries. Much of it is now contracted out so when you take into account the profits also being taken away by private companies then it has even less funds being used for health care.


Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 10:24pm



But how long do you consider the whole process from ordering to front line would it take ?.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 10:37pm



....and I have also heard from two different sources and to different places that 'stuff' has been going missing ( and sold on in one of them ) !!

The other has had to put everything under lock and key !
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 11:21pm

Originally Posted by granny


But how long do you consider the whole process from ordering to front line would it take ?.


If we had national reserves like we had for many years, that wouldn't be so critical.

Knowing we didn't have national reserves available the orders should have gone in at the end of January latest, the disease had spread to the UK by then and they knew how fast it had blown up in China despite China being more prepared and practised than us.

I have just been discussing elsewhere, against current disinformation, Shanghai and Beijing were infected very early, like before China had five known deaths, but China contained it very fast.

The UK is the worst performing nation with Belgium being just behind us. 12.5% of registered cases have died in the UK. NHS Nightingale was predicting that around 80% of cases moved there would die.

While we are on NHS Nightingale,this is only a 500 bed hospital not the 5000 beds in 9 days the Government boasted, I find it hard to believe it has the 500 ventilators in place, it was stated every bed would have a ventilator.

Liverpool is also about to start on a 500 bed hospital, using the same factor i guess stage one will be 50 beds.

Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Apr 2020 11:49pm


You still haven't answered my question .

No country was prepared and if you believe China has sorted it, then I'm a monkey.. Same with various other countries , but saying that, we know many of the ME countries wear their hijabs , so maybe that is protecting them... i.e. against other recommendations . They haven't even got soap in half the towns and villages of these countries.

•If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
•Wear a mask if you are coughing or sneezing.
•Masks are effective only when used in combination with frequent hand-cleaning with alcohol-based hand rub or soap and water.
•If you wear a mask, then you must know how to use it and dispose of it properly

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dis...ice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

The fact that nobody anywhere, like throughout the world, can get their hands on masks, or hand gel is quite odd. Someone will be making them, as they are the gel in Birkenhead ! Maybe this is a transition period and we'll all be wearing hijabs soon. We can get them online !


Well I reckon we can make our own, washable masks.

Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 3:33am

Why are you asking that question? You know there is no "correct answer" and any answer I give is irrelevant.

The equipment should have been stockpiled before any emergency crops up. As soon as it was clear the disease was going Global the Government should of ordered large amounts of equipment , not just PPE but also ventilators etc, the nature of the disease was well known. Some of it should have been flown here because of the shortages, not delivered by boat.

APH got 300,000 masks delivered the other day, there can't be that much of a shortage if one single hospital (minor trust) gets that massive quantity delivered in one day.

33 million pieces of PPE were delivered to the NHS on the 8th April. Yet in days prior to this NHS workers with coronavirus patients were using jury-rigged untested equipment, some nurses were using cheap dust masks and wearing bin bags. Why wasn't some of the equipment flown in? At the same time we have a significant number of RAF transport (C17s, C130s) aircraft flying round in circles above the UK doing non-functional exercises and taking advantage of the relatively quiet airspace and civilian airports.

I am also amazed the our NHS trust appear to have been given one third of the whole consignment of masks, that just doesn't ring true especially as our Trust is not even classed as an "Acute Trust" but the Government have been sneaky there. Coronavirus was downgraded from high risk to medium risk, this means it doesn't have to be treated at an acute trust, this also means that hospitals not set up for this level of acute care nor having the expertise are being used with no priority of sending patients to acute trusts.

I am talking about PPE and other equipment for use in the NHS coronavirus areas not for use by the general public that your link refers to.

The Government's own advice is for NHS acute CV areas are to use respirators, I can't recall seeing one respirator in use by staff on the various videos of CV wards in the UK. I have seen valved masks which are sometimes called respirator masks. A respirator has forced filtered air to maintain a positive air pressure at all times, other countries are using them. But of course the Government has covered its backside by downgrading CV from high to medium so there is no requirement for it to be classed as acute care even though it blatantly is.

Hospitals were struggling last year in one of the mildest flu and d&v seasons we have had for a long time - that is because of serious underfunding and mismanagement by the Government.

China was prepared, look at their statistics compared to ours (0.0002% died to our 0.0145% - we are seventy two times greater and we haven't hit peak yet . China stopped the spread in most places apart from Wuhen area, this might not be the best strategy but it shows they had the capability, we haven't got the ability to partly control it let alone stop it.

South Korea was prepared as were other countries like Japan and Taiwan who were amongst the first countries to get infected, long before us.

In 2008/9 that we had 14,000 deaths attributed to flu, we need to be prepared, even using a capitalist model the investment required in the NHS is a pittance compared to the cost to the economy of not being prepared, many of the costs are one off and have little ongoing costs.

Then there are the numerous companies that produce this equipment in the UK that have not been approached. David Humpston (ex Dragons Den) produces 1000 face shields a day for pharmacies and care homes, he hasn't been approached. At least four UK ventilator manufacturers weren't approached even after the Government got into a very late panic and asked JCB etc to manufacture. Has the Government never heard of the internet or trade directories?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 8:10am

We had a phone call yesterday saying someone we knew had passed away in APH with covid 19, had been in hospital over a week with another medical problem not associated with covid, the question is where was she contaminated, because without testing the source is unclear, and remains a viable threat to others.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 8:45am



Covid 19 is in the hospitals, same as any other virus. How any nurses, cleaners, cooks, admin, etc. etc. travel to and from work by public transport ? It could go in to the hospitals on their coats or gloves .
We are following the same pattern as the other countries.

If one person is infected, how long before symptoms show ? Up to two weeks and beyond. In those two weeks, how many have those people infected which might not show up for two weeks ? So already we have got a month further on and contamination in hospitals could easily have been there from the beginning. Not every nook and cranny will be cleansed in any hospital and it could be all over the hospital, not just a specific isolation ward.

As a world, we have f**** d up and now it's come back to bite us on the bum.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 8:57am


March 18th 2020.. Advice from WHO.. we are now 4 weeks on and we will still be feeling the affects of that advice .

Basic protective measures against the new coronavirus

Stay aware of the latest information on the COVID-19 outbreak, available on the WHO website and through your national and local public health authority. Most people who become infected experience mild illness and recover, but it can be more severe for others. Take care of your health and protect others by doing the following:

Maintain social distancing

Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

So they gave that BAD advice too !!

Highlighted things in RED so that people don't think it's up to date advice.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 9:19am


@ DD have you seen the spraying those countries you mention have done within the cities ? The whole of Wuhan was drowend in disinfectant. They have cities , big cities. We have a different spread of population to those countries in Asia.
We don't know how many people in the countryside in China etc are infected , because they won't even be hospitalised or counted.
We are certainly not getting the true figures from Iran or Syria they are begging for relief on sanctions so they can get much needed medicine , but sanctions are NOT being lifted. How cruel is that ? Gaza and Palestine two more we shall hear little about.

Live by the sword die by the sword !

It was mentioned on a programme the other day that Germany have a different way of producing their figures, and you yourself have on at least once occasion said that ours and others data is inaccurate.

I also believe their is a lot of skullduggery going on. When Spain ordered from China, which was being despatch via Ankara , Turkey would not release it to Spain for whatever reasons. That held up Spain's preventative operation. Oddly enough, Turkey have this last week supplied UK . Now where did they get their supplies from ?

With regard to supplies arriving by sea ( 3,500 containers would be a difficult send by air) to the UK and being despatched to the final point of need, I would say 3,500 containers is likely to take at least 2 weeks but nearer to 3 weeks . I spent weeks in port with my husband when he was on the container ships and the cargo loading and unloading was nowhere near 3,500 units.

Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 9:40am

I don't want to get into the blame game , that will come later..When we do come through this hope the whole world has learnt lessons and now take notice of people who foresaw this. Watched Bill Gates being interviewed this morning and they showed a clip of him at a presentation warning that it's not a nuclear bomb we should fear but a virus, this was five years ago! We've seen all the warning and yet the whole world was not prepared for this , the speed and devastating effects and of course deaths.
I was shocked and sickened by the image of those coffins in New York being put in mass graves, like something from another era. America a big powerful country being rocked to the core by this so it doesn't matter where you live or which government in power if something like this happens , as humans we pretty weak and vulnerable and in the great scheme of things defenceless if world wants to take us out!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 3:08pm

We need to kick the Government into gear now, there are still many lives on the line - better late than never. Every single avoidable death is important even if we have been brain washed into accepting death as hyper-normality these days.

The UK being the 5th richest country is accepting charitable gestures from developing nations like Turkey which has a quarter of our wealth - how embarassing is that and a indictment of our piss poor governance.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 4:01pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
We need to kick the Government into gear now, there are still many lives on the line - better late than never. Every single avoidable death is important even if we have been brain washed into accepting death as hyper-normality these days.

The UK being the 5th richest country is accepting charitable gestures from developing nations like Turkey which has a quarter of our wealth - how embarassing is that and a indictment of our piss poor governance.


They wont admit they have got it wrong DD, the blame will fall on someone or something else, the saying lions led by donkeys seems very apt at this time, if we are lucky enough to have a break through,Boris will be fit enough to take the bow, they have fallen down badly by not even supplying the basics for the protection of the front line.
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 4:27pm

Have i missed some news today? Has the lock down ended, only asking because as i look though my window, the amount of people walking about just looks like a normal Sunday, they all can't be going to the shops? saw a driving school picking a learner driver up, next door's neighbour taking their kids in to their nans for a bar-b-q in back garden, a lad giving his girlfriend a lift on his push bike, never mind the amount of cars on the road, as i looked at the figures a few hours ago, we are up to nearly 80,000 sick and close to 10,000 dead, i just don't get it, am i missing something somewhere, my friend phoned me up yesterday to see if i was ok and told me his ex wife had just come out of hospital and is recovering, she had Covid, her father also has it but sadly died, and a lot more will also looking though my window, madness!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 7:56pm

Originally Posted by granny
Oddly enough, Turkey have this last week supplied UK . Now where did they get their supplies from ?

With regard to supplies arriving by sea ( 3,500 containers would be a difficult send by air) to the UK and being despatched to the final point of need, I would say 3,500 containers is likely to take at least 2 weeks but nearer to 3 weeks . I spent weeks in port with my husband when he was on the container ships and the cargo loading and unloading was nowhere near 3,500 units.


Turkey may have sourced from its national reserve or from China.

Virgin Unite Foundation sourced 350,000 pieces PPE and other equipment in Shanghai, flew it to UK in a 787-9 and delivered it to the UK on the 3rd April. I believe most of it went to Guys Hospital.

I've seen the 3,500 containers quoted a number of times, I've not seen a source? It seems very excessive?

A few associated facts and figures.

One standard container (20ft) can hold about two million examination gloves, limited by weight not volume, in fact the container would be pretty empty.

Container ship trip from Shanghai to Liverpool is just over 20 days at normal cruising speed of 24 knots.

A C17(III) can carry 70 tonnes of cargo (three containers worth), would need to refuel two times (air-to-air or landing) but would take just one day.

A 787-9 used as a cargo plane can carry 52 tonnes of cargo (two and a half containers worth), presuming it does the journey in two hops ie one refuel. It could do it in one hop but I'd guess the payload would be down to under 20 tonnes
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Apr 2020 11:00pm



How long did it take you work that lot out ?

Did the container ship arrive from Shanghai ? Never said that on the BBC News Northwest when they told us on their live broadcast about the 3,500 containers arriving that day. That was one shipment, another shipment contained animal feed and grain.

Used to take 2 weeks UK to Panama, and 2 weeks Panama to New Zealand.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 12:32am


Can't sleep. Too much chocolate !

You think 3,500 containers are excessive ?

what do you think of Maersk Line, capacity up 23,756 TEU ?

This image was a record set in 2018 of 19,038 Mumbai Maersk.

Attached picture 1280x800-mumbaimaersk_world-highest-load_18_pic-4-800x500.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 1:12am

Originally Posted by granny
How long did it take you work that lot out ?

Did the container ship arrive from Shanghai ? Never said that on the BBC News Northwest when they told us on their live broadcast about the 3,500 containers arriving that day. That was one shipment, another shipment contained animal feed and grain.

Used to take 2 weeks UK to Panama, and 2 weeks Panama to New Zealand.


For the journey I used http://ports.com/sea-route/port-of-shanghai,china/port-of-liverpool,united-kingdom/ and the normal cruising speed of a container ship of 24 knots (that is probably faster than it used to be), I guess the canal would slow it down a bit with its 10knots speed limit and other faffing around.

The products delivered to APH were made in China, I doubt anywhere else would release a stockpile that big at the moment. I could trace the ship on ships AIS to find exactly where it came from and how long it took but cba.

I happened to have some packets of examination gloves to hand (out of date stock), a box of 200 weighed 2kg, a normal 20ft container takes 21 tons so just over two million gloves.

The volume of the 200 packet was 25cm X 13cm X 7cm = 0.002275m3. container volume is 39m3 so would take around 3.4 million gloves by volume ignoring packaging. Therefore weight was the limit.

Crow flies from Shanghai to Liverpool is 9,185 km, cruising range of C17 is 4,480 km at full load, cruising range of 787-9 is 14,140km at normal passenger load so guessed one refuel for full load. Max payloads were a straight lookup.

Didn't take long as I like numbers, probably about 10 minutes including some repeats due to not being able to read my scribbles (again!).
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 9:30am



The reporter stated they had not been able to come by road from Europe. So I don't know where they were loaded from, but I am 100% he said Europe .

Also, with a cargo of only 3.500 containers it would definitely not have been a cost effective operation from China so had it carried more cargo, it would have taken a lot longer. Shipping companies are generally not in the business of making a massive loss, so bigger ships, more cargo, greater distance.

Just because a container is half empty of gloves, makes no difference. It has to go by weight. The mathematics involved in loading these ships is incredible. If they aren't loaded correctly, funnily enough, they can tip over ! Everything has to be charted, and positioned to be easily accessible for any other ports en route where cargo is to be despatched, and in many cases more loaded from those ports to be taken somewhere else en route for despatch . That's why the cargo plan of weight, even distribution and accessibility all come into play. They don't just sit on the deck either, they're down in the hold . Depending on the size of the ship there could be at least 6 or 7 tiers below deck .

Stowage of containers :

https://www.aimuedu.org/aimupapers/OnDeck.pdf
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 9:33am


Where's Casper ? I thought he was MN . He should know far more than I do.

BY the way, that BBC report went out on the 20 march.

https://www.peelports.com/news/2019/customer-supplier-communication-covid-19-003
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 10:18am

It wasn’t the capacity of the ship, it’s just the count of containers. 33.5 million items of which most were ppe wouldn’t need anything like that.

Didn’t they mean they couldn’t go by road in Europe, not from Europe? They were worried about other countries blocking their movement?

I was surprised at it landing at Liverpool, there are regular ships to Portsmouth (if coming from China). Wherever it landed goods would have to be transported, Liverpool hasn’t got a proper rail service to its docks yet. Unless they used Garson.

Anyway, they are doing airlifts from China now, loads of spare aeroplanes floating around.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 11:19am

Well according to the news, ppe from China doesn't comply with ppe standards here and my well be useless, I really hope this isn't the case, another snippet suggests more people of ethnic origins are dying here implying that this my be down to some social disadvantage.
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 12:15pm

Don't know why we are getting stuff from China, there should be a boycott from this country still it starts paying up
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 1:22pm

Originally Posted by keef666
Don't know why we are getting stuff from China, there should be a boycott from this country still it starts paying up


Paying up for what? If every time a virus mutates you are going to blame the country it happens in it would be totally random.

There are some signs that one of the eight strains of CV mutated in UK then went to Spain, should we compensate Spain if that is proven?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 2:29pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
It wasn’t the capacity of the ship, it’s just the count of containers. 33.5 million items of which most were ppe wouldn’t need anything like that.

Didn’t they mean they couldn’t go by road in Europe, not from Europe? They were worried about other countries blocking their movement?

I was surprised at it landing at Liverpool, there are regular ships to Portsmouth (if coming from China). Wherever it landed goods would have to be transported, Liverpool hasn’t got a proper rail service to its docks yet. Unless they used Garson.

Anyway, they are doing airlifts from China now, loads of spare aeroplanes floating around.


France had closed her land borders
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 2:52pm

Originally Posted by casper
Well according to the news, ppe from China doesn't comply with ppe standards here and my well be useless, I really hope this isn't the case, another snippet suggests more people of ethnic origins are dying here implying that this my be down to some social disadvantage.


Do you think ethnic groups are more concentrated in high rise flats etc. ?

I read that too, Casper, about the testing kits from China not being accurate.

The whole world is now looking for supplies of such items. Listening to Al Jazeera (far better from a universal point of view than our BBC, SKY and ITV ) The refugee camps in so many countries particularly Africa haven't got enough food any longer. Rations in Uganda have been cut by half. $£150 million short, (that's a lot of bowls of rice) and hoping the world community will come to their aid. Growing produce such as lemon grass, spices etc. in Malaysia and other Asian countries by the indigenous populations , that is the only source of income, cannot sell their produce now and unable to support themselves.
Villages in other such places are barricading themselves in, away from any contact with the outside world.
Uganda is seeing a rise in poaching, a) for meat b) for ivory again. Threatening the already threatened species such as the mountain gorilla's.

The list goes on, some say we should wear face masks to prevent passing the virus on, others say not. World population is 7.5 billion people , and I think the catastrophe is yet to hit. It's all very well for us to pontificate, but we can't all have supplies all at the same time.

One real problem is the amount of refugee camps. How has the world gone so badly wrong that people are having to flee and live in such places for protection ?

Our day of reckoning will come , but I suspect the Greta's of this world will be rubbing their hands in glee..

Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 3:53pm

Originally Posted by granny

Where's Casper ? I thought he was MN . He should know far more than I do.

BY the way, that BBC report went out on the 20 march.

https://www.peelports.com/news/2019/customer-supplier-communication-covid-19-003



Sorry granny never sailed on a container ship, from what I remember end of the end of the 60's / early70's saw the rise of containerisation although not having fully taken off, interesting you mentioned face masks China,Spain and Italy are encouraging the use of these and some are handing them out, if they are as useless as they tell us for the general population protection then why? there is even a suggestion that the toll is lower in South Korea and Japan because a lot of the population normally wear them, Mmm.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 6:07pm

Think we'll all have to learn how to make face masks because it's a possibility they will become compulsory.
I should imagine there will be a shortage of them . Many countries now are wearing them, I must admit I wear a scarf not a woolly one and have that over my mouth and nose in shops also gloves.
Lots of ideas on internet how to make them even from baby wipes and kitchen roll.
Sounds ludicrous but strange times we living in.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 7:49pm

may be a barrier to yourself touching your own face.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 8:09pm

Masks are not very effective at protecting the person wearing them, they are much more effective at protecting everybody else from you.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Apr 2020 9:29pm

I think the argument for wearing them is that if you are assymptomatic there is less chance of you passing it on without realising you have it, and if you just have mild sypmptoms and cough, the mask will impede most of the virus even if it doesn't stop it all getting out into the great beyond. Every litle helps, I guess, but the Govenment is not going to recommend masks unless they can guarantee there will be a lot of masks readily available, or people can make their own - otherwise it'll be a case of PANIC II, The Sequel, coming to a supermarket aisle near you...
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Apr 2020 10:43am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Masks are not very effective at protecting the person wearing them, they are much more effective at protecting everybody else from you.


I understand the principal, but they must offer some protection ie better than none, even if they just prevent people touching their faces, we could possibly have people walking around that are infected and are unaware or those that just don't care, but if a mask stops just a small % i is better than nothing, as usual we are back of the cart again, I think the main fear is shortage again, I don't hear Boris quoting give us the tools and we will finish the job, more like we have no tools (only in government) but we can "get it done" meanwhile across the water we have another tool blaming the media for the epidemic.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Apr 2020 11:47am

Originally Posted by casper
I understand the principal, but they must offer some protection ie better than none, even if they just prevent people touching their faces, we could possibly have people walking around that are infected and are unaware or those that just don't care, but if a mask stops just a small % i is better than nothing, as usual we are back of the cart again


I've argued the same but in reality its 50/50, whilst it will help stop a droplet going straight down your airways, the problem is that the particle is then held directly in front of your airpath to be breathed in over a period of time as it dries up and gets smaller. If you change the mask regularly (and not be accused of wasting PPE) then that alters the odds in a positive direction but the change of mask would have to be very frequent which in itself poses an additional risk.

For an infected person wearing them there is a huge advantage to others, the particles will be slowed down and not spread as far.

Part of the impulse to believe in this is human psychology, we like to have a shield to hang on to. Its like hiding behind a car door or a sofa when someone is shooting at you with an Uzi, nearly everybody would do it even though the bullets go straight through - and the bullets being damaged are more likely to be fatal.

Notice when we are awake we generally breathe in faster than we breathe out, this works against us, try to breathe in slower when you are in potentially hazardous area, breathing out faster helps as well possibly even dislodging particles that have already entered your body. So basically breathe the opposite of how you normally breathe.

An additional gem .... for a mask to be effective it must be held away from the mouth while breathing in (but still sealed) - this is to reduce speed of air over any part of the filter, if you are drawing air in from a 16cm² section of filter through your nose, say 2cm², then the air will be travelling eight times slower through the filter which will have less propensity to draw particles through it - this is more about pressures than speed but they are related. Cheap masks that collapse as you breathe in are obviously more risky,
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Apr 2020 5:41pm

Hands across the sea

Attached picture ship.jpg
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Apr 2020 6:55pm

nice one casper
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Apr 2020 8:01am

Good entertainment value , isn't he ? Whilst I actually agree with him on his assessment, as I believe they have given wrong info as a guide to follow, to actually halt funding is somewhat extreme . He seems to be the worlds 'Greatest Bully' what with funding cuts and sanctions, it could be considered that stamping his feet and spitting his dummy out is the way he's got to where he is in Trump Towers and started at a very young age.

US President Donald Trump has said he is going to halt funding to the World Health Organization (WHO) because it has "failed in its basic duty" in its response to the coronavirus outbreak.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Apr 2020 8:19am

WHO has failed? Really? People who live in glass houses, Donald...
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Apr 2020 9:55am

Aren’t Americans embarrassed? His whole demeanour is of a five year old spoiled brat.

And before anyone asks, yes I most certainly am!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 8:15am


Not very encouraging having a points system NHS : Over 60 yrs your chances of assistance are reduced depending on additional criteria. Points out of 10 but if you're over 75 yrs then automatically you will have 5 points. I have also heard that assistance is not given over the age of 60 yrs in our local hospital ! Anyone else heard that ?
Who would want to go to hospital ?

No wonder there are more deaths of older people !!



Attached picture 27136866-8213613-image-a-1_1586787584289.jpg
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 8:45am


Flights from Romania arriving today with farm workers. British farmers say they can't get enough farm workers for the produce.

What a load of rubbish. A call went out ONLY a few days ago for Brits working on the farms, another sneaky way of framers paying less out on wages, but these people will be quarantined, tested and house for how ever many weeks at whose expense ?Not the farmers I'm sure .

8th APRIL :
http://www.fruitnet.com/fpj/article/181440/furloughed-staff-can-work-on-farms
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 8:51am

Originally Posted by granny

Not very encouraging having a points system NHS : Over 60 yrs your chances of assistance are reduced depending on additional criteria. Points out of 10 but if you're over 75 yrs then automatically you will have 5 points. I have also heard that assistance is not given over the age of 60 yrs in our local hospital ! Anyone else heard that ?
Who would want to go to hospital ?

No wonder there are more deaths of older people !!



Dominic Cummings government advisor Feb 2020 talking about herd immunity, "so what if a few pensioners die" that of course was vehemently denied, but then it would be wouldn't it.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 8:57am

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny

Not very encouraging having a points system NHS : Over 60 yrs your chances of assistance are reduced depending on additional criteria. Points out of 10 but if you're over 75 yrs then automatically you will have 5 points. I have also heard that assistance is not given over the age of 60 yrs in our local hospital ! Anyone else heard that ?
Who would want to go to hospital ?

No wonder there are more deaths of older people !!



Dominic Cummings government advisor Feb 2020 talking about herd immunity, "so what if a few pensioners die" that of course was vehemently denied, but then it would be wouldn't it.


Link to quote please, Casper.

This is the NHS criteria , not the Government, 60 yrs olds aren't pensioners any longer and hospitals seem to have a different path to follow, depending on the hospital.
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 9:07am

Lockdown yet again highlights how incompetent & corrupt uk is..
Heathrow flights still come in daily...
Just before lockdown 1000s of spanish where wandering round the city.
Always caught with their pants down uk.
I like the fact weathers good , theres loads of space everywhere , no 4x4 idiots jamming up the roads , its peaceful , a& e isnt full of drunk angry idiots , shops are empty when u get in & theres not loads of chav kids collecting on the street etc etc.
Its prob ' nature re setting itself from parasite humans.
Or its a tory distraction from brexit / recession / kill off expensive old / make small & med got to state for loans to run / make us anti social / rob pensions more etc etc.
Mr ickes been removed by internet powers for just talkin ( not allowed )
We buy most things from china cause theyre cheap. And our society mirrors theirs at mo as we line up for food.
Reminds me exactly of 10 yr old film " contagion " .
Someone said its russian chemical warfare dropped in wuyhan games to mess things up & destroy....
Anything goes in this mad mad world !!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 9:38am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny

Not very encouraging having a points system NHS : Over 60 yrs your chances of assistance are reduced depending on additional criteria. Points out of 10 but if you're over 75 yrs then automatically you will have 5 points. I have also heard that assistance is not given over the age of 60 yrs in our local hospital ! Anyone else heard that ?
Who would want to go to hospital ?

No wonder there are more deaths of older people !!



Dominic Cummings government advisor Feb 2020 talking about herd immunity, "so what if a few pensioners die" that of course was vehemently denied, but then it would be wouldn't it.


Link to quote please, Casper.

This is the NHS criteria , not the Government, 60 yrs olds aren't pensioners any longer and hospitals seem to have a different path to follow, depending on the hospital.


It was reported in the Sunday Times originally and followed up by the other papers, this was at the time when the government where dithering about herd immunity, but I bet all their aged relatives will be exempt. you say it is the NHS criteria, is this across the board or individual regions or health authorities? I find it very hard to believe that the NHS alone would implement such a policy without being told by the government.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 9:59am


Dominic Cummings. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die

It was the BMA that issued the guidelines.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...rus-patients-for-healthier-ones-bma-says
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 10:16am




EU offers grieving Italy 'heartfelt apology'



The president of the European Commission has offered a "heartfelt apology" for letting Italy down at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic.

"Yes it is true that no one was really ready for this," Ursula von der Leyen told the European Parliament on Thursday morning. "It is also true that too many were not there on time when Italy needed a helping hand at the very beginning. And yes for that, it is right that Europe as a whole offers a heartfelt apology."

More than 21,000 people with the virus have died in Italy, according to Johns Hopkins University - the highest death toll in Europe.

As Italy struggled to contain the outbreak in early March, both France and Germany placed restrictions on the export of face masks - despite warnings from the EU Commission that such actions could undermine the collective response to the virus.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Apr 2020 1:36pm

Heartfelt apologies after the event doesn't change the way people think when they made these decisions, this wasn't just a mistake it was a prolonged strategy at a very critical time for Italy.

The salt was rubbed in the wound when France gave PPE away to other countries.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Apr 2020 6:27pm

After weeks of blagging Matt Hancock has now come clean, after being challenged about the shortage and reuse of PPE, his latest is I wish I had a magic wand or that it would fall from the sky, but there is a world shortage, I think he missed the tough shit bit out.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Apr 2020 6:47pm

Just saw on another forumn. Apparently a scam is going round whereby you get a text message saying you have been in contact with a person who has Covid-19 and telling you to click , DONT! I know we all pretty clued up on these scams but thought it was worth putting on just in case.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Apr 2020 9:46pm



Some sick b'tards around.

Just heard that one of my relations went to India before lockdown here in UK. He's with his mother and 10 yr old daughter. They are stuck out there in a camp and the 10yr old has the job every morning of cutting cardboard plates and taking food out to the beggars on the streets outside the camp ! Don't know when they will get home.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Apr 2020 9:59pm


Face shields


https://www.schoolbooking.com/elles...AE7dVcWOGD0BzYKF81RNebr8gEidDPikV2soI5HE
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Apr 2020 12:11am

There are Wirral Schools and businesses making face shields and other PPE. Saint Anselm's, Upton Hall, spring to mind but I have come across a few others as well.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Apr 2020 3:36pm

Even at this late stage, the Government need to pull their finger out or step aside. Their handling of this crisis is appalling and showing no improvement, do we trust them to remove the lockdown in an appropriate manner?

Boris has got away with big mistakes in the past with his bumbling fool character, this is even more serious, he has to be held to account this time.

Hancock seems to alternate good days and bad days, one day he makes sense, the next day he looses the plot.

Gove is in his usual self-preservation mode, whether that is burying his head in the sand or blaming someone else.


Attached picture cvcob.jpg
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Apr 2020 8:19am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Even at this late stage, the Government need to pull their finger out or step aside. Their handling of this crisis is appalling and showing no improvement, do we trust them to remove the lockdown in an appropriate manner?

Boris has got away with big mistakes in the past with his bumbling fool character, this is even more serious, he has to be held to account this time.

Hancock seems to alternate good days and bad days, one day he makes sense, the next day he looses the plot.

Gove is in his usual self-preservation mode, whether that is burying his head in the sand or blaming someone else.


Boris appears to be having a long convalescence, no doubt waiting for a breakthrough or at least some good news so he can appear like the good fairy, a shake of his touseled blond head and all will be well, the stooges will be blamed for all the bungling.

As for the PPE debacle, if you go to the supermarket late the shelves will be empty and you must queue for what is left.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Apr 2020 3:45pm

Various reports of people entering the country without any checks on their health whatsoever, I am beginning to notice more people, gathering in groups especially the younger ones, police being assaulted for breaking up parties, if it continues any advantage will be lost, a decision needs to be made, toughen up the penalties for those that don't comply or enforce a lock down, at the moment the governments bucket of measures is leaking like the proverbial sieve.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Apr 2020 11:12am



Various reports are outlining President Trumps new approach. Please don't panic buy Dettol , syringes and sunlamps .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177

(snips)

US President Donald Trump has been lambasted by the medical community after suggesting research into whether coronavirus might be treated by injecting disinfectant into the body

While noting the research should be treated with caution, Mr Trump suggested further research in that area.

"So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous - whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light," the president said, turning to Dr Deborah Birx, the White House coronavirus response co-ordinator, "and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you're going to test it.

"And then I said, supposing you brought the light inside of the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you're going to test that too. Sounds interesting," the president continued.

"And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?

"So it'd be interesting to check that."

Pointing to his head, Mr Trump went on: "I'm not a doctor. But I'm, like, a person that has a good you-know-what."
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Apr 2020 5:17pm

Technically he is correct on both counts although most certainly not what he was thinking.

A disinfectant that you put in your body is called medicine (not Detol). Its just a matter of finding the correct chemical that dis-infects.

Light is used for certain conditions often in the form of ultra-violet or laser.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Apr 2020 9:14am

I see Dominic Cummings has re entered the arena, his presence has been criticised after attending a meeting of top scientists, not in his remit as a political adviser, a government spokesman has said that public confidence in the media has collapsed because of these non stories, what he meant was, caught out again, we should be able to lie without every little porky being broadcast, Cummings might make a suggestion on Trumps pearls of wisdom, lets inject them with???? and end the problem, and get the economy back on its feet, easy peasy.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Apr 2020 10:13am



Of course... all negative point scoring . Who gives a shit ?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Apr 2020 12:59pm

[quote=granny]

Of course... all negative point scoring . Who gives a shit ? [/quote

Well there is nothing positive to celebrate is there granny? turned down help from the EU, first it was a political decision then it wasn't, then it was a missed communication, we have small companies dotted around the UK that have been producing PPE, they have been trying to get an answer from government for over 3 weeks, telephone email no response, so much so they have had to stop manufacturing, we now have the testing fiasco, death toll still rising daily, testing was the answer in the early stages as proved in other countries with lower death rates, all in all we are faring badly compared to other countries, take Greece as an example, the cries of get it done are sounding rather hollow now, its not about point scoring, its looking to this government to be straight with us, and by their attempts to discredit the media, they open themselves up to negative criticism
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Apr 2020 3:44pm

Everything our Government does is affecting whether people live or die - that is not political point scoring, it is more about criminal behaviour.

This Government is costing us lives, we have the highest number of new deaths in the world today beating even the USA despite them being five times bigger than us. We have the second highest number of new infections beaten only by Russia (but they are about twice as big as us).

Even the EU with its poor track record is condemning the UK for our very poor control of Coronavirus.

Dominic Cummings is a strategist, he has no science or medical training. He has never been a member of the Conservative party, he is not a politician, his only role and responsibility is his own career and that is his priority. Dominic is answerable only to Dominic.

It is now nearly two weeks since Boris spoke publicly having just left hospital when he had no apparent speaking or breathing difficulties.

The reason Boris is out the public eye is the same reason he disappeared before the election, Cummings doesn't trust Boris to keep to the strategic line whenever he speaks publicly.

The Conservative Party realise there could be a lot of fallout from the mistakes and lies that have happened, if that lands on Boris it could lead to a general election. For once, Boris is not being offered as the bumbling sacrificial lamb.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Apr 2020 9:34pm



Dominic Cummings has absolutely nothing to do with the number of coronavirus cases. If he attends a meeting , why shouldn't he, if he was allowed and if he had an interest in such a very serious situation. ?

It doesn't matter, he's not a medical, health, or scientific advisor , and to say Boris didn't have any breathing problem or difficulty in speaking when he left hospital is another example of the Brits trying to play Sherlock Holmes.
You yourself DD, said in one of your posts that this virus attacks many of the internal organs too. So maybe you'd like to comment on the state of Boris's kidneys ?

The number of deaths is awful, and concentrated areas are more prone. I'm not interested in what the EU thinks, or says, we know how Germany came out of it so well. We know how Italy and Spain didn't !

There was one gentleman who actually said that although many deaths recorded have been categorised as Coronavirus, it is not necessarily Covid 19, as many diseases come under the Coronavirus. France haven't given their care home deaths, neither has Canada, and I don't know how many more countries . I'd like to know how many fatalities have just had Coronavirus stamped on their death certificate, because if the numbers are high, they clearly won't have enough Pathologists to carry out autopsies needed. So that's to my mind is another question to be answered.

Not interested in Cummings. Who would those who oppose Cummings prefer to have his job instead ? All I see is the British public thinking they know who is best to fill these positions. Nobody would actually please all of the people all of the time, and it really has nothing to do with us.
Let's not forget all the advisors of Blair,(Iraq) Brown (Gold) , Corbyn,(election) to name a few incidents, those who ended up in jail, corrupt property dealers, cocaine addicts and rent boys, Alistair Campbell who went on holiday with Kinnock and was a very close friend of Maxwell. The list is endless on both sides , but attending a meeting given by health officials and scientists is no crime.

People would be better engaged in having a look to see what other things are going under the radar during this pandemic , if they are so worried. An old saying springs to mind... A good day to bury bad news !
They should also be more concerned about the possible world famine following this pandemic ... rather than Cummings attending a meeting . Trivial nonsense

Well, I would also suggest keeping our eyes on the Middle East because that is building up (I'll give it 18months before take off) , as we argue about who has the worse toothache.

Now I've said my piece , and not listening to you two any longer.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Apr 2020 10:27pm

... and another thing.

USA 54,000 deaths

EU well exceeds that total

USA population 328.2 million
EU population 446 million.

EU statistics well exceed double US statistics.

Don't understand how Poland and Romania have come out with so few fatalities . Maybe because Romania only have 19 million and the Polish are all in the UK. laffin
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Apr 2020 3:22am

I think you are missing the point, Cummings is running the country not just "attending meetings". We have gone back to the days of spin-doctors ruling the roost because the spineless elected political leaders haven't got the nous to do their jobs.

CV has hardly started in the USA, both New York (0.11%) and New Jersey (0.07%) have a worse death rate than Belgium (0.06%) which is the worst EU country, it has yet to spread as significantly in many other States but it probably will in some.

Romania had a really harsh lockdown which probably helped them, one factor I can guess at especially with Poland is temperature, CV doesn't appear to have hit colder (or hotter) climbs as much, maybe there is a certain band of temperatures it thrives in? This would be in line with many other viruses.

We still don't know why CV spreads so readily, most people in the country are observing lockdown to a reasonable degree, the few idiots that aren't don't really account for the ease it is spreading. Supermarket staff don't seem to have the prevalence you would expect which sort of cancels out the possibility that it is spreading while people are shopping.

We are clearly missing something very basic, the evidence to me is that it is more of an airborne problem than so far admitted/realised (deduced purely on the basis that I've run out of other options), we have had a fair amount of wind days over recent weeks. With a rainy spell coming that may slow down the spread if it is an airborne problem.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Apr 2020 9:17pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


CV has hardly started in the USA, both New York (0.11%) and New Jersey (0.07%) have a worse death rate than Belgium (0.06%) which is the worst EU country, it has yet to spread as significantly in many other States but it probably will in some.



The intention of giving the above numbers was in fact to point out that the United States of America has fewer cases than the United States of Europe, considering the difference in populations but I certainly don't think that the EU or UK has finished with it yet.

Don't be silly, Cummings is not running the country.

I feel this is very apt :

Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?

22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

23
He brings princes to naught
and reduces the rulers of this world to nothing.

24
No sooner are they planted,
no sooner are they sown,
no sooner do they take root in the ground,
than he blows on them and they wither,
and a whirlwind sweeps them away like chaff.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Apr 2020 9:38pm

Originally Posted by granny
Don't be silly, Cummings is not running the country.


Numerous Tory politicians have said he is.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Apr 2020 9:57pm



Who ?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Apr 2020 11:24pm

Ken Clark has stated it on more than one occasion, Huw Merriman, Sir Roger Gale and a number of others that chose to be anonymous, everybody knows what happens when you get on the wrong side of Cummings because he has the power to get rid.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Apr 2020 9:25am



365 tory MP's, and you name 3, one of whom voted against same sex marriage, another who would oppose almost anything unless it was about himself, and all three opposed Brexit !

More please, because when I grew up, 'numerous' meant 'many' , not two or three.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Apr 2020 9:35am

Well I for one am glad to see Boris back at the helm...not expecting miracles and know many glaring mistakes have been made but whether you like it or not this is the government we have and we all looking to them to get us through this..
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Apr 2020 9:52am



Morning Cools..


Last week, it was reported two cats in US had coronavirus, but nothing more was heard so could have been nonsense.

Yesterday it's reported by Reuters, that the new Covid 19 has been found on two Dutch mink farms. (Cruel b.tds. Who the heck wears mink these days ?)

If this is the case , I suggest we could have a problem on our hands of an even greater magnitude.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Apr 2020 10:05am

Originally Posted by granny
one of whom voted against same sex marriage


What's that got to do with it? I'd vote against it given the chance - I might start a topic.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Apr 2020 4:08pm

Originally Posted by granny


365 tory MP's, and you name 3, one of whom voted against same sex marriage, another who would oppose almost anything unless it was about himself, and all three opposed Brexit !

More please, because when I grew up, 'numerous' meant 'many' , not two or three.


Really granny do you expect people to put themselves forward knowing this mans reputation, David Cameron described him as a career psychopath and accused him of dripping poison into the ears of others, 365 Tory MP's many new, being careful not to piss on their boots, lets face it how many detractors have already been sacked? and on who's say so, the guy is utterly ruthless, its akin to the Generals in the bunker telling Hitler he's loony ( although they thought it ) that is why there was concern about him being present at the latest meeting, too much influence.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 27th Apr 2020 10:03pm

Originally Posted by granny

365 tory MP's, and you name 3


Originally Posted by casper

365 Tory MP's many new, being careful not to piss on their boots


I am reminded of how the likes of Vince Cable, Iain Duncan Smith, and even Alastair Campbell suddenly found themselves with the capacity to speak up about the sort of injustices - the likes of which they themselves had enabled - once relieved of Office.
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Apr 2020 9:17am

The figures are still going up each day, the death toll still rises and Boris and the gang thinks we are at a turning point!
When there's no new cases and nobody dies then we have reach that point Boris
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Apr 2020 11:26am


Another example of Chinese kits being faulty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52451455
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 28th Apr 2020 12:50pm

Originally Posted by granny

Another example of Chinese kits being faulty.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52451455


Antibody tests are never going to be reliable, once the infection has cleared there are not many antibodies floating around the body, it is just just like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

If you want a reliable test, it would need a substantial sample not a quick dab.

An additional complication is that like many other viruses, coronavirus can lie dormant/hidden in other parts of the body apart from the respiratory system.
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Apr 2020 11:05pm

Just heard LA is offering ALL residents CV19 tests. So how come they can do this? when nobody else can.
Think ( I know ) I'm getting cabin fever
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Apr 2020 11:51pm

Originally Posted by snowshoes
Just heard LA is offering ALL residents CV19 tests. So how come they can do this? when nobody else can.
Think ( I know ) I'm getting cabin fever


Wirral has got the test group here this week, three days, maximum of 250 a day. At 750 that is only a fraction of those that are entitled to a test.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 1st May 2020 7:21am

Our hospital tested almost half of our on-duty Staff earlier this week, as part of a national pilot scheme to determine the prevalence of symptomless COVID-19 - we're expecting 5-6% of those tested to be positive.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 1st May 2020 11:18am



Hope they are all ok, MisterSmiff.

Interesting article on PPE going back to 2004/2005

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...idnt-address-chronically-low-ppe-stocks/
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 1st May 2020 6:32pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
[quote=snowshoes]Just heard LA is offering ALL residents CV19 tests. So how come they can do this? when nobody else can.
Think ( I know ) I'm getting cabin fever


Wirral has got the test group here this week, three days, maximum of 250 a day. At 750 that is only a fraction of those that are entitled to a test.[/quot

A rising death toll 27,590 and Matt Hancock is patting himself on the back for allegedly reaching his forecast figures for testing, He now tells us testing is the answer,over a month too late mate, we are heading for the highest death toll in Europe.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd May 2020 12:15pm


One wonders how many more .

Wirral man held after tip-off leads police to stolen PPE


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52503144?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/localnews/2655613-birkenhead/0&link_location=live-reporting-story

A man has been arrested on suspicion of stealing personal protective equipment from his employer.

The 40-year-old was held after Merseyside Police raided a home in Bromborough, Wirral, earlier.

Officers seized a large number of items, including face masks and respirators.

The force declined to comment on the nature of the man's job or the business he works for, but said the raid was a result of "information supplied to us".

Det Insp Nick Suffield added that despite the coronavirus lockdown, "our investigation is ongoing".
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd May 2020 1:01pm

Looking at the ONS 1st Mar to 17th Apr data for the 26(?) areas of Wirral, the only area that didn't have a death was Greater Meols yet neighbouring Hoylake was the worst with nine.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd May 2020 3:16pm



Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Looking at the ONS 1st Mar to 17th Apr data for the 26(?) areas of Wirral, the only area that didn't have a death was Greater Meols yet neighbouring Hoylake was the worst with nine.


This ?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/visualisations/dvc811/msoamap/index.html
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd May 2020 4:24pm

Yes, they should have done the maps earlier to make everyone aware that the virus is everywhere. I was speaking to someone from Hoylake before, they said that they assumed it hadn't arrived there as they hadn't heard of anyone having the virus let alone dying.

Edit: just noticed Egremont had zero deaths as well.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd May 2020 8:29pm



Do you know when was this information released ? If in the last few days, do you think some of the deaths may have been in the Care Homes as they have now have the updated the figures ? Hoylake has a few of those .

Also , the chart with all the Covid 19 cases on Wirral and the rest of the country seems to have disappeared over the last few days . I think we (Wirral) had a bout 900 cases last time I saw it, and considering the difference in population, we were not far behind Liverpool .
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd May 2020 9:19pm

Wirral Deaths by COVID19 up to 17th April

Carehome - 45
Home - 5
Hospice - 2
Hospital - 136
Other Communal Establishment - 2

Total - 190 ............. (Total deaths from all causes 1443)

Infections by Local Authority are at https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/#local-authorities Wirral are currently at 1018
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd May 2020 12:10am

Nothing Orwellian about this?

Attached picture EVuhymWWoAMFP4s-s.jpg
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd May 2020 11:00am

Little Bruv is Being Watched
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th May 2020 8:11am

I see the Tory propaganda machine is up and running, poor Boris was at deaths door and now reveals his death announcement should he have not survived (sad background music playing) we are now being readied for the return to work and some normality, but are we actually ready? the government failed to supply vital PPE for the NHS yet in their brief on safe return to work they mention the usual safe distancing hand washing etc and of course PPE just wondering, if they failed to provide PPE for the protection of front line workers what hope is there for everybody else getting it provided, I know there are different classes and grades of mask but surely the demand must have switched to protect the NHS leaving a shortage.

This crisis has been bungled from the beginning, lets hope some common sense prevails and we don't rush headlong into another ill thought out fiasco, because some government adviser is pushing from the back.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 4th May 2020 9:34am



What's with the blame game Casper?

Spanish are blaming their Government, Italians are blaming their Government, Germany is blaming Italy, France has now said their case was in December 2019 so that could hold them guilty..

Blame does not help the bereaved in any way what so ever, but if there has to be blame, then it's time to stand up to World Governments who allow cross contamination through peculiar, cruel and archaic methods of medicine, which incidentally, WHO gave clearance to China for such things . So, what do you think China is doing now ? Administering medicine for Covid 19 made from bear bile !
Those are the things we need to be challenging, preventing cross contamination , and various other flu epidemics that always rise in the East . That's some indication of where the blame should lie, every time .

As a matter of interest, what would you have changed or been able to change in this specific process of dealing with Covid 19.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th May 2020 3:21pm

WHO is an advisory body, they cannot give "clearance" for anything. They have been working hard in China to classify traditional medicines because some work and some don't (much the same as some of our NHS drugs). WHO's role is to educate people and Governments, they have no legislative powers.

I'm waiting for the RSPCA to be blamed for Coronavirus, I'm sure that one will be in the wings.

Things that should have been done different ....

Not got rid of our national reserves of PPE, the Government's own reports showed a continual necessity for it. It was only a pittance in the Government's budget.

Put the NHS in charge of Coronavirus instead of Public Health England. The only reason PHE exists is in readiness to be the Ombudsman when the NHS is privatised, their role wasn't related to what had to be done with Coronavirus.

Got the Coronavirus acute units running up earlier and run by specialists.

Not downgraded the classification of Coronavirus - this meant non-acute units were having to deal with it and worse still, the relevant specialist weren't at hand in many hospitals which were landed with the disease. Most hospitals had not even come across wide bore ventilation before and numerous mistakes were made because of lack of experience.

Locked down earlier - we had much more notice than other countries of the severity but threw that lead away in some weird hope that it wouldn't hit us - valuable time was lost.

Locked down flights, we were one of the few Countries that didn't, there was no testing and no isolation.

Stopped the Cheltenham Festival and the Spanish football match in Liverpool going ahead - that was crazy.

Spent some money on ways to protect care-homes - from day one the assumption was that old and vulnerable people were going to get thrown to the dogs. Old people with Coronavirus were being sent back to the care homes from Hospitals - if that isn't attempted manslaughter, what is?

Got the armed forces in to help with deliveries from shops, it has become very clear that shopping is probably the most hazardous thing people can do, delivering food is less hazardous to everybody.

Got testing in place early, if you want to play games of statistics and "scientific evidence" then you need data to play with.

Be clearer on lockdown (and other) rules, in an emergency all instructions have to be crystal clear and not breach common sense without an explanation.

You want more?



Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 4th May 2020 5:00pm


OK so we'll correct the word 'clearance' and replace it with 'recognised'

According to Reuters, as of May 2019, China has set up a multi-decade plan to promote TCM. It includes hospitals, museums, medicinal zoos, and botanical gardens.

According to WHO, also reported May 2019 : On Saturday the WHO’s World Health Assembly recognised traditional Chinese medicine (TCM) diagnoses for 400 conditions in its influential International Classification of Disease list.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-world-health-organisation-a8933061.html

UN : NATURE IS SENDING US A MESSAGE’ says United Nations’ environment chief, Inger Andersen, discussing the current COVID-19 pandemic, the latest in a line of recent environmental impacts. The increasing number of human infectious disease outbreaks includes Ebola, bird flu, Mers, Rift Valley fever, Sars, West Nile virus and Zika virus – all crossed from animals to humans. All the result of human pressures on the earth’s natural systems. Andersen suggests that “our long-term response must tackle habitat and biodiversity loss”. Scientists have concluded that it is almost always human actions that causes diseases to spill over from wildlife into humans.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th May 2020 7:59pm

You can't blame the Chinese for zoonotic diseases, they have been happening since the beginning of time, it is part of nature. It is globalisation that has made them a problem, that makes the difference between a small local epidemic and a pandemic.

Not all TCM is animal based, the article fails to mention that, some of it isn't any form of substance eg acupuncture.

WHO have not completed the classifications yet as to which treatments are effective and which are not, it is a work in progress, the articles are jumping ahead of reality. It would be silly of WHO to jump the gun in case effective treatments were "condemned".

It is not only China that harvests creatures for medicines, it is also done in the west, we even harvest humans!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 4th May 2020 9:34pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
You can't blame the Chinese for zoonotic diseases, they have been happening since the beginning of time, it is part of nature. It is globalisation that has made them a problem, that makes the difference between a small local epidemic and a pandemic.

Not all TCM is animal based, the article fails to mention that, some of it isn't any form of substance eg acupuncture.

WHO have not completed the classifications yet as to which treatments are effective and which are not, it is a work in progress, the articles are jumping ahead of reality. It would be silly of WHO to jump the gun in case effective treatments were "condemned".

It is not only China that harvests creatures for medicines, it is also done in the west, we even harvest humans!


I will blame China for it's continuation of a practice from archaic dynasties into the 21st century . We all know how cruel the Chinese are.. and do you think that harvesting animals and creatures and human organs even in the West, makes it ethical, right and above scrutiny ? I don't , and we know most of the Asian countries are responsible too, that's why the trafficked animals from Africa ,India and other places are leading to world extinction of so many species, and thus distorting the balance of nature, which we rely upon so much. I can't see how donkeys being poached out of Africa for their skins to make Chinese medicine, (just one example) is beneficial to anyone, and certainly taking the livelihood away from African villagers who have no other mode of transport to collect water and goods.
A high percentage of TCM is animal based , but if you think it's ok , then it must be because I seldom hear anyone voice any concerns about it, until of course it all bounces back and hits us. We can turn a blind eye and make excuses for so long, and then because a pandemic takes away our civil liberties everyone starts crying and blaming everyone else.

Look at the way the WORLD is and where it is going..... not just the UK.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 12:30am

No, the majority of TCM is herbal, you are choosing to focus on one tiny part of it and stereotyping a false image.

My general take on a lot of things like this is that we should clean up our own culture before criticising other cultures. The human race is about 200,000 years old, you can't expect all cultures to develop within a few years of each other.

In a newspaper this would be stated that I condone animal treatment in China but that would be based on conjecture.

Its only fifteen years ago that fox hunting was partially outlawed in this country. Its less than 170 years ago since we abolished slavery, within the lives of some people's grandparents.

Look at the treatment of pet rabbits in this country, something I find appalling. I spent a significant part of my childhood chasing rabbits round fields, to see them cooped up in a small hutch is heart breaking, its not like there is even a function of having them like that.

We have a long way to go but lets clean our own doorstep before slagging off others..
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 8:32am

Originally Posted by granny




As a matter of interest, what would you have changed or been able to change in this specific process of dealing with Covid 19.


I think DD answered most of it granny, in simple terms a plain and ordinary risk assessment to start with, what are the risks, how do we stop / reduce them, what are the priorities, these tasks to be carried out by a competent person(s) Back in January at a meeting of these alleged competent persons were still dithering over what to do, herd immunity, Dominic Cummings suggests the deaths of a few pensioners is acceptable, isolation? loath to take advice from those filthy foreigners in Europe, because we are out now, previous government exercises (Ex Cygnus 2016) revealed issues with the shortage of ppe and ventilators in the highly likely case of a future pandemic (no action taken) yet the government was aware of this in January, no testing ,no tracing, not enough ppe, not enough ventilators, basic needs in the fight against this pandemic, yes I blame them granny as I would blame any government for the deaths of over 28,000 people, one more thing that stuck in my mind, the PM saying he would not stop shaking hands with people, oh the arrogance of it, and thereby lies one of the problems.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 11:32am

I think it is wrong to blame the government, they are just following advice off the scientists
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 12:59pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
I think it is wrong to blame the government, they are just following advice off the scientists


A lot of those scientists are on line screaming at the Government. WHO is full of scientists but the Government ignored their advice, they ignored Chinese scientist's advice and they ignored Italian scientist's advice.

Members of SAGE have complained that Cummings did interfere with their meetings and did try to influence their decisions. He was not just a silent onlooker like the Government has tried to portray him.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 1:08pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
I think it is wrong to blame the government, they are just following advice off the scientists


Yes, agreed.

All too easy for the ' couch potatoes' ( grin:) to be pontificating after the event.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 1:15pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by mikeeb
I think it is wrong to blame the government, they are just following advice off the scientists


A lot of those scientists are on line screaming at the Government. WHO is full of scientists but the Government ignored their advice, they ignored Chinese scientist's advice and they ignored Italian scientist's advice.

Members of SAGE have complained that Cummings did interfere with their meetings and did try to influence their decisions. He was not just a silent onlooker like the Government has tried to portray him.


WHO gave the wrong advice in the first instance which UK and others followed. I've already shown the evidence of that previously.

SAGE is a sub- committee of COBRA.

I'm convinced you make it up as you go along. Where to you get all this inside information from ?

Here is a list of the SAGE advisory committee for Covid 19. I hardly think that Cummings attendance would have altered anything.

Sir Patrick Vallance FMedSci FRS, Government Chief Scientific Adviser
Professor Chris Whitty CB FMedSci, Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Adviser, Department of Health and Social Care
Professor John Aston, Chief Scientific Adviser, Home Office
Professor Wendy Barclay FMedSci, Imperial College London
Professor Phil Blythe, Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for Transport
Professor Ian Boyd FRSE, University of St Andrews
Professor Andrew Curran, Chief Scientific Adviser, Health and Safety Executive
Dr Gavin Debrera, Public Health England
Professor Sir Ian Diamond FRSE FBA, National Statistician, Office for National Statistics
Professor Yvonne Doyle CB, Medical Director, Public Health England
Professor John Edmunds OBE FMedSci, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine
Professor Sir Jeremy Farrar FMedSci FRS, Director, Wellcome Trust
Professor Neil Ferguson OBE FMedSci, Imperial College London
Dr Aidan Fowler FRCS, National Health Service England
Professor Julia Gog, University of Cambridge
Dr David Halpern, Behavioural Insights Team, Cabinet Office
Dr Jenny Harries OBE, Deputy Chief Medical Officer
Dr Demis Hassabis FRS, Personal capacity as a data scientist
Professor Peter Horby, University of Oxford
Dr Indra Joshi, NHSX
Professor Dame Theresa Marteau FMedSci, University of Cambridge
Professor Dame Angela McLean FRS, Chief Scientific Adviser, Ministry of Defence
Professor Graham Medley, London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine
Professor Andrew Morris FMedSci FRSE, University of Edinburgh
Professor Carole Mundell, Chief Scientific Adviser, Foreign and Commonwealth Office
Professor Catherine Noakes, University of Leeds
Dr Rob Orford, Welsh Government
Professor Michael Parker, University of Oxford
Professor Sharon Peacock FMedSci, Public Health England
Professor Alan Penn, Chief Scientific Adviser, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government
Professor Steve Powis FRCP, National Health Service England
Dr Mike Prentice, National Health Service England
Mr Osama Rahman Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for Education
Professor Venki Ramakrishnan PRS, Ex Officio as Chair of DELVE, convened by the Royal Society
Professor Andrew Rambaut FRSE, University of Edinburgh
Professor Tom Rodden. Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
Professor Brooke Rogers OBE, Kings College London
Dr James Rubin, Kings College London
Professor Calum Semple, University of Liverpool
Dr Mike Short CBE, Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for International Trade
Dr Gregor Smith, Scottish Government, Chief Medical Officer
Professor Sir David Spieglhalter FRS, University of Cambridge
Professor Jonathan Van Tam MBE, Deputy Chief Medical Officer
Professor Russell Viner PRCPCH, University College London
Professor Charlotte Watts CMG FMedSci, Chief Scientific Adviser, Department for International Development
Professor Mark Walport FRCP FMedSci FRS, UK Research and Innovation
Professor Mark Woolhouse FRSE, University of Edinburgh
Professor Lucy Yardley, University of Bristol
Professor Ian Young, Northern Ireland Executive
Professor Maria Zambon FMedSci, Public Health England
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 1:20pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
No, the majority of TCM is herbal, you are choosing to focus on one tiny part of it and stereotyping a false image.

My general take on a lot of things like this is that we should clean up our own culture before criticising other cultures. The human race is about 200,000 years old, you can't expect all cultures to develop within a few years of each other.

In a newspaper this would be stated that I condone animal treatment in China but that would be based on conjecture.

Its only fifteen years ago that fox hunting was partially outlawed in this country. Its less than 170 years ago since we abolished slavery, within the lives of some people's grandparents.

Look at the treatment of pet rabbits in this country, something I find appalling. I spent a significant part of my childhood chasing rabbits round fields, to see them cooped up in a small hutch is heart breaking, its not like there is even a function of having them like that.

We have a long way to go but lets clean our own doorstep before slagging off others..


Might be your approach, DD but having seen more video footage, images and inhumane activities from that part of the world, I can assure you it would turn any mans stomach upside down, your included. You think fox hunting is bad... just one recent snapshot of Asian practices. This is training for circuses.. gives a clue to other practices they administer .

Attached picture 92174392_690927118311670_4230291470843641856_n.jpg
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 1:21pm

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny




As a matter of interest, what would you have changed or been able to change in this specific process of dealing with Covid 19.


I think DD answered most of it granny, in simple terms a plain and ordinary risk assessment to start with, what are the risks, how do we stop / reduce them, what are the priorities, these tasks to be carried out by a competent person(s) Back in January at a meeting of these alleged competent persons were still dithering over what to do, herd immunity, Dominic Cummings suggests the deaths of a few pensioners is acceptable, isolation? loath to take advice from those filthy foreigners in Europe, because we are out now, previous government exercises (Ex Cygnus 2016) revealed issues with the shortage of ppe and ventilators in the highly likely case of a future pandemic (no action taken) yet the government was aware of this in January, no testing ,no tracing, not enough ppe, not enough ventilators, basic needs in the fight against this pandemic, yes I blame them granny as I would blame any government for the deaths of over 28,000 people, one more thing that stuck in my mind, the PM saying he would not stop shaking hands with people, oh the arrogance of it, and thereby lies one of the problems.


I'll deal with you later Casper.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 4:55pm


Casper, we've already covered the Cumming's thing about deaths of a few pensioners, which has been emphatically denied. I have no doubt that the press twisted words , something they always manage to excel in.
https://www.who.int/news-room/artic...f-the-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-24-jan

This is an update to the WHO advice in relation to the outbreak of the novel coronavirus nCoV, published by WHO on 10 January 2020. Since that date, travel-related cases linked to Wuhan City have been reported in several countries. For details about the current outbreak in China and the exported cases, please refer to the Diseases Outbreak News and the situation reports published by WHO.
Health measures related to international traffic
The current outbreak originated in Wuhan city, which is a major domestic and international transport hub. Given the large population movements, expected to significantly increase during the Chinese New Year in the last week of January, and the observed human to human transmission, it is not unexpected that new confirmed cases will continue to appear in other areas and countries.
With the information currently available for the novel coronavirus, WHO advises that measures to limit the risk of exportation or importation of the disease should be implemented, without unnecessary restrictions of international traffic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_the_United_Kingdom
1) As soon as cases appeared in the UK on 31 January 2020, a public health information campaign, similar to the previous "Catch it, Bin it, Kill it"
2) Transmission within the UK was first documented on 28 February. By 1 March, there were cases in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland The government unveiled the Coronavirus Action Plan, and declared the outbreak a "level 4 incident
3)On 10th March 6 people confirmed to have died.
4) On 11 March, the outbreak was declared a pandemic. by WHO
5) On 12th March 8 people had died from Covid 19 in UK
6) by the 14th March, panic buying had gone off the richter scale
7) On 15th March—following the outbreak in Italy] and based on forecasting by epidemiologists at Imperial College London—the government said everyone should avoid all "non-essential" travel and contact with others, avoid crowds, and work from home if possible. Those with symptoms, and their household, were asked to self-isolate. Pregnant women, people over 70, and those with certain health conditions were asked to self-isolate for longer
8) On 20 March, the governments shut all schools, restaurants, pubs, indoor entertainment venues and leisure centres, with some exceptions.\l "
9) On 23 March, the government imposed a lockdown on the whole population, banning all "non-essential" travel and contact with people outside one's home (including family and partners), and shutting almost all businesses, venues, facilities, amenities and places of worship. People were told to keep apart in public. Police were given power to enforce the lockdown, and the Coronavirus Act 2020 gave the government emergency powers not used since the Second World War.
10) 23rd March a shipment arrived UK with PPE supplies .

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...idnt-address-chronically-low-ppe-stocks/
(the following is just some of the article)
The answer lies in how the Government planned for the pandemic. After the Civil Contingencies Act was passed in 2004, the first UK influenza pandemic contingency plan was published in October 2005, setting out how Britain would handle a mass infection event. Although it suggested stockpiling antivirals, it made no mention of PPE.
The follow up-document, a national framework for responding to an influenza pandemic, was published in 2007 and, for the first time, included guidance that PPE should be provided for health workers.
But, crucially, it set out that emergency stockpiles would only be triggered in the event of the World Health Organisation (WHO) declaring a pandemic, and that rule has remained in place ever since.
The Government keeps mass stocks of PPE at depots around the country, but Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, the WHO director general, did not declare a pandemic until March 11, meaning hospitals could not touch the supplies until then.
Government reports also warned that it would take seven to 10 days for the UK-wide distribution of centrally held stocks and said organisations should prepare to rely initially on local supplies.
When the coronavirus epidemic began, some hospitals had virtually no PPE supplies – so by the time the first emergency stockpiled equipment began arriving, many had run out entirely at exactly the time case numbers were soaring.
By the time the UK influenza pandemic preparedness strategy was published in 2011, the Government had stockpiles of face masks and respirators for health and social care workers in place. However, at this point it was agreed that there would be no stockpiling of PPE outside the NHS – a situation that has remained until today and is now causing major problems.
The pandemic stockpile was only designed to supply 226 NHS trusts, not the 58,000 other health and social care providers that desperately need equipment in order to keep people safe. To make matters worse, Public Health England (PHE) has since confirmed that gowns were never included in the national pandemic stockpile of PPE equipment, but said they would be in future.
------------------------------------------
Add to that, the supplies ordered from abroad and despatched were the wrong items on one occassion. The world was and is scratching around for supplies , mostly from China which was in lock down for weeks and therfore supplies were unavailable. Of course that's part of the problem, globalisation and procurement manufacturing of items no longer in the UK.
Testing kits ordered were faulty and not suitable.
What advice did the ' filthy foreigners' in Europe give us ? I Haven't heard that they did and whatever advice it was, didn;t help them. Maybe we should have all worn niqabs, they seem to have saved the ME, when we look at their data ! We couldn;t get mask, all sold out, but we could have bought M & S thongs. Quite multi-purpose apparently.
About 85% of Care Homes are privately run, and charging extortionate amounts for residents on a weekly/monthly basis and they should have had their own stockpiles.
Put it all together, and I don;t think your obsession with making Boris the scape goat is valid. Sure there has been some chaos, but so too in all other parts of the world, and when a bunch of dick heads are stopped in Snowdonia last weekend, for having a mini break, where do you think they came from. ? London !
Everyone has had a part to play, and most have abided by the advice, but it is/was advice which clearly others have refused to engage with, as we have seen so many times.
I can;t see what else could have been done within the time frame, but maybe you have some more ideas to contribute.
Add to that, we don't have the full picture of deaths worldwide yet, and doubt we ever will. Once tourism kicks in again, the Chinese will be first on the planes.
Being checked at airports e.g. people saying the weren;t checked here on arrivals in UK, but most countries were checking passengers on outward bound flights and therfore it would not have been needed when arrivals landed just a few hours later in UK . If they arrived after lockdown, they would automatically have gone into self isolation, if they'd played by the rules.
Are you going to download the App for tracking , Casper.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 6:17pm

I wouldn't dream of making Boris ( notable by his continuing absence) a scapegoat, that's his game, no doubt those bright shiny faces on the news will be victims should some truth emerge about how things should have been dealt with,I know Boris holds the NHS in very high esteem, so much so that the lack of PPE is not to be sited as a contributing factor in the unfortunate deaths of medical staff due to Covid 19 the magic marker is already in play, deny deny deny, meanwhile the death toll now the highest in Europe is still rising, If I remember rightly weren't we offered a choice with the Europeans to purchase PPE, a statement was then made by a representative that this was refused because of a political decision, this was then denied, then the next day, the missed opportunity was put down to a miscommunication, oh no it wasn't, oh yes it was, Jesus they can't even lie properly, as to people breaking the self isolation rule, then what would a risk assessment say? the measures in place are not working, next step strengthen measures,mmm bit of a problem here not enough police old boy, what about the army? didn't we run them down too?

Anyhow rant over, yes I will download the app granny anything to assist, still love you xx
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 9:42pm


Love you too babe. XXX

However, don't think creeping into my heart will let you off the hook.

It was the Guardian that reported that about refusing PPE 3 times.

Well, it so happens that it wouldn't have made any difference to the time factor at all, the EU still had to procure and got caught up in the waiting game :

“For the majority of PPE included in the EU scheme, the supply of items to participating countries is still subject to the European Commission signing off individual contracts with suppliers. [On] the placing of orders and negotiations on delivery schedules, we understand that participating countries may begin to receive PPE starting from two weeks after orders are placed, but delivery will be subject to the same demand pressures of all other procurement currently taking place."
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th May 2020 9:54pm

@ DD and anyone else who cares to view.

Rabbits in cages.. and lots more we can pour our hearts out over. None of it excusable, but Chinese animal welfare goes far and beyond in the opposite direction and has no similarity to western practices and absolutely no welfare standards at all ... and people fill their bodies with the stuff full of infections, cancers, etc.

Bear bile.




How to eradicate swine flu.



Do you want anymore ? There's plenty worse where they came from and the pangolins are too harsh to bare, just for their scales . somad

Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th May 2020 11:25am

Originally Posted by granny

Love you too babe. XXX

However, don't think creeping into my heart will let you off the hook.

It was the Guardian that reported that about refusing PPE 3 times.

Well, it so happens that it wouldn't have made any difference to the time factor at all, the EU still had to procure and got caught up in the waiting game :

“For the majority of PPE included in the EU scheme, the supply of items to participating countries is still subject to the European Commission signing off individual contracts with suppliers. [On] the placing of orders and negotiations on delivery schedules, we understand that participating countries may begin to receive PPE starting from two weeks after orders are placed, but delivery will be subject to the same demand pressures of all other procurement currently taking place."




Regardless of any waiting time best practice would have taken any avenue or any place in a queue to secure what we could, an opportunity turned down, because of arrogance, better to have at least tried,as I have said before if we don't get in the queue then the shelves will be empty when we decide to turn up.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 7th May 2020 9:17pm


Watched the Scrutiny Committee this pm. Talk about confusing !

One senior scientist was giving all sorts of eventualities , different ways of calculating, how data is dealt with differently in different countries, and how normally there are 3000 deaths in Care Homes a week at this time of year throughout the UK.

That leads me to wonder why those who have died in Care Homes, apparently from Covid 19, were not admitted to hospital . Have they had medical assistance within the Care Homes, and why would they not be in hospital if they were so close to dying from the virus ?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th May 2020 7:49am

Another fine mess, who in their right mind would even mention that there might be the chance of a small adjustment to the lock down next week prior to a bank holiday, to the feckless and the just don't give a f---, its like giving the green light for jollies at the weekend or even today.

Or because I am very cynical, it might be a very clever move, if the figures should rise or not stay stable then who will be blamed? one guess would it be the people ignoring the ban.
Posted By: BultacoAstro

Re: Coronavirus - 8th May 2020 11:12am

Hazel O`Conner Will You
Everyone will be Cautious then gradually the caution will slowly fade to "Won't Be Me Am Healthy"
I will carry on staying in and Watch till next march as this is NOT going away.
Read a report that they had a Very good chance of getting rid of STD with everyone in lockdown and they blew it.
They should of Used TV Podium to get people to phone up to ask for swap kit and if wear infected treated them with postal medication Private and secretly so no embarrassment
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 8th May 2020 5:53pm

Originally Posted by casper
Or because I am very cynical, it might be a very clever move, if the figures should rise or not stay stable then who will be blamed? one guess would it be the people ignoring the ban.


But they will not find that out for around a week because it lays dormant before symptons are noticed.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th May 2020 8:40pm

Originally Posted by granny
That leads me to wonder why those who have died in Care Homes, apparently from Covid 19, were not admitted to hospital . Have they had medical assistance within the Care Homes, and why would they not be in hospital if they were so close to dying from the virus ?


It was so much worse than that - people from care homes went to hospital, were diagnosed with coronavirus and sent back to the care homes with instructions to isolate.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th May 2020 7:58am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
That leads me to wonder why those who have died in Care Homes, apparently from Covid 19, were not admitted to hospital . Have they had medical assistance within the Care Homes, and why would they not be in hospital if they were so close to dying from the virus ?


It was so much worse than that - people from care homes went to hospital, were diagnosed with coronavirus and sent back to the care homes with instructions to isolate.


Beginning to look like, there is indeed a policy to allocate resources / treatment on the basis or likely hood of the survival rate, wouldn't surprise me,I think it was policy and has been the intention all along we were talking to neighbours yesterday (2mtrs apart) and their son is a paramedic, he had to go from Wallasey to Haydock to be tested, what a shambles
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th May 2020 8:54am

Originally Posted by casper
Beginning to look like, there is indeed a policy to allocate resources / treatment on the basis or likely hood of the survival rate, wouldn't surprise me


That was stated at one point. If there was a shortage of ventilators they were instructed to remove ventilators from existing patients with a probable poor outcome in favour of new patients with better prospects.

This is somewhat different to allocating resources based on priority, to remove a resource from a living patient based on a newer patient is only half a step away from hitting the big switch dependent on who walks through the door next - euthanasia by proxy!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 9th May 2020 9:30am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
That leads me to wonder why those who have died in Care Homes, apparently from Covid 19, were not admitted to hospital . Have they had medical assistance within the Care Homes, and why would they not be in hospital if they were so close to dying from the virus ?


It was so much worse than that - people from care homes went to hospital, were diagnosed with coronavirus and sent back to the care homes with instructions to isolate.


Not good ! I wonder how often that happened and who was responsible for actually discharging those people. Poor souls.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 9th May 2020 9:36am

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
That leads me to wonder why those who have died in Care Homes, apparently from Covid 19, were not admitted to hospital . Have they had medical assistance within the Care Homes, and why would they not be in hospital if they were so close to dying from the virus ?


It was so much worse than that - people from care homes went to hospital, were diagnosed with coronavirus and sent back to the care homes with instructions to isolate.


Beginning to look like, there is indeed a policy to allocate resources / treatment on the basis or likely hood of the survival rate, wouldn't surprise me,I think it was policy and has been the intention all along we were talking to neighbours yesterday (2mtrs apart) and their son is a paramedic, he had to go from Wallasey to Haydock to be tested, what a shambles



Probably got something to do with the fact that North West Ambulance Service NHS Trust (NWAS) has it's head office in Bolton. Haydock is a tad nearer to Wallasey than Bolton.

Hopefully you have no need for an ambulance, Casper. but paramedics cover this area from all over the North West, not just local guys. Probably why it takes so long for one to arrive on many occasions. Going back to changes initiated in 2005.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 9th May 2020 10:21am

Well at last they are going to make people coming into UK isolate in units for 14 days. I think this is long overdue. I wonder if the plan is still herd immunity but obviously not overloading hospitals. I can't see any way out of this without us all having it and hopefully surviving but of course many won't. A lot of these elderly have debilitating illnesses and would have died naturally but now they all seem to have this covid-19.
I pray every morning I'll wake up and a vaccine has been found to eradicate this virus, but I know that's not going to be quite the way it will happen...
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 9th May 2020 1:47pm

Originally Posted by cools
I wonder if the plan is still herd immunity but obviously not overloading hospitals. I can't see any way out of this without us all having it and hopefully surviving but of course many won't. A lot of these elderly have debilitating illnesses and would have died naturally but now they all seem to have this covid-19.


I read an article in the Telegraph about their stance on herd immunity and they have decided not to carry on with this policy.
"Looking back, it was a moment that Sir Patrick Vallance may now view as regrettable"
But later in the article it states that herd immunity is a natural by-product of the virus so why go against their original train of thought?
Couldn't the vulnerable just stay on lockdown and let everyone else build up their immunity?
Because it will be going on forever before it is erradicated, if we don't build up an immunity.

Article here
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th May 2020 6:55pm

In the absence of a vaccine or effective treatment, the only possible course of action is herd immunity, though 60% is a tad on the low side and it would be very difficult to get an even spread of 60% round the country.

However it has to be controlled as it cannot be allowed to overload the country's infrastructure.

Only a small proportion of the country has so far had the disease, to the best of our knowledge. If it went rampant we could end up with half of the country laid up at the same time. Things would be affected eg

NHS would have a shortage of staff and a surplus of patients, many more would die through lack of basic treatments.

Manufacture and deliveries of everything would be affected, this includes food, medicine, fuel.

Basic infrastructure such as electricity, gas, water and sewage could be lost through lack of resources and manpower.
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 7:40am

You lot go on & on alot about government incompetence and this and that....why are dumb uk citiizens ever thinking gov ' gives a toss and knows what its doing ???
Airport lockdowns only just being thought of !! To little too late as usual.
This might be to get rid of cash payments / hide recession / destroy business / get rid of black market money / impose further powers etc or simply poor animal world getting us back in a good dose of karma.
As we gas pigs in slaughter houses were no better are we ?
Animals are treated terrible wherever u go in the globe.
Lets look at the facts ( i will round it up, the figures ) with 3 mil getn corona and say 300k dying of it , its only 10 per cent fatal.
Thats what banned david icke said months ago.
40k die of flu in uk every year.
Theres more goin on here . The manufactured problems itll cause are far more deeper.
No advice to the old on how to boost your immune system is there? Being old obese minority puts u at higher risk. Most people have had corona already . I think ive had it in feb.
The little hitlers tellin u to move round packed with idiots in masks shops are just silly and cops enjoying a third drop in crime says how as per usual how survile we are.
I dont know why we place so much importance on immunity injections as they are just as harmful as a virus in the first place. Look up phd doctor judy mikovits who went to jail in the usa for whistle blowing on big pharma for harming people with injections to supposedly help them.
Unless i really really need any drugs i dont take them.
And by the way no wonder care homes in uk are rife...alot are run for profit costly business with mim wage staff , some cost a grand a week , yet theres no on site staff 24 / 7 just an intercom. Sad
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 1:33pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9jXnZS3ouU
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 1:35pm

Originally Posted by svenlock68
You lot go on & on alot about government incompetence and this and that....why are dumb uk citiizens ever thinking gov ' gives a toss and knows what its doing ???
Airport lockdowns only just being thought of !! To little too late as usual.

I for one do not blame the government but your statement above is saying it is the governments fault.

Originally Posted by svenlock68
40k die of flu in uk every year

I don't know where you get your figures but they are way off.
"Public Health England estimates that on average 17,000 people have died from the flu in England annually between 2014/15 and 2018/19. However, the yearly deaths vary widely from a high of 28,330 in 2014/15 to a low of 1,692 in 2018/19. Public Health England does not publish a mortality rate for the flu"
Now look at that high of 28,330, this coronavirus has overtook that number in just a few months.
In fact, the US has figures that have ranged from 12k to 61k deaths from the flu, and their number of deaths is now at 79,696 from coronavirus in just a few months.
https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-compare-influenza/

Originally Posted by svenlock68
No advice to the old on how to boost your immune system is there? Being old obese minority puts u at higher risk. Most people have had corona already . I think ive had it in feb.

I agree and I feel there needs to be more antibody tests so we can get a real number of confirmed cases, because a lot have self isolated with symptons and not been confirmed as having covid-19.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 1:52pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5k2hdPc10&t=255s
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 6:17pm

Mikeebee....you dont get my point . We always look, like religion externally , towards obvious incompetent government for answers....they dont have any theyre idiots , always have been.
To overcome everything the answer doesnt lie with fools..Maybe we will now realise lookin to tory or labour for things to go right were actually wasting our time.
Uk is great at being hysterical about everything.
The average risk is v low to catch & die with covid.
Im sure in 2018 the same no in uk died of flu as of corona. 30k.
Give or take a few thousand.
Its 61 on the list of deaths / risks by virus in the world.
Being fat . Drinking. Smoking. Eating crap . Not exercising is far more bad for u....britain loves all of those.
Mark my words the financial effect will be longer / greater than mass of bodybags !
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 6:33pm

I take it by calling Govt idiots that you have a higher opinion of yourself than them.. In which case why do you not believe that people with perhaps the same values as yourself may want to change the country for the better and enter into politics and governance.
I dont particularly like politics and perhaps the only reason i would think them fools is that they have actually gone into politics in the first place.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 7:24pm

Every death matters, they aren't just numbers. Comparing two types of death is questionable, saying that more people die of cancer than murder doesn't mean that murder doesn't matter.
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 8:21pm

Originally Posted by fish5133
I take it by calling Govt idiots that you have a higher opinion of yourself than them.. In which case why do you not believe that people with perhaps the same values as yourself may want to change the country for the better and enter into politics and governance.
I dont particularly like politics and perhaps the only reason i would think them fools is that they have actually gone into politics in the first place.


No its the public ; after years and years of getting taxes raped / death of young sons & daughters in war we dont want / getting money robbed off them , their pensions / penalties and being sold off treaty wise to the EU & business wise all to the highest bidder all over the world and exporting hardly nothing and importing everything ; still vote as if that rigged " system " will change..... I AM smart enough to know it wont.

Ironically the covid mantra is " were all in this together "
Ha cameron told us that during the raping 10 years ago.

People here are just like the yanks ....dumb ill consumer robots stuck to phones & obessed with media & consumption. Sad.
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Coronavirus - 10th May 2020 8:34pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Every death matters, they aren't just numbers. Comparing two types of death is questionable, saying that more people die of cancer than murder doesn't mean that murder doesn't matter.



True but with say 4 mil gettin corona and only 40k dying its not the rabid virus its meant to be.
58 million people die each year.. on earth .
Wearing a mask round tesco wont make a jot of difference. Even virus " experts " agree.
If i was 75 with dirty hands 20 stone who eats sugar all day or got zero immune system id be scared but im not.
Your body is your own responsibility ..634 000 died in the uk in 2019 and 2.9 million in the usa....most wont be corona. Its just facts..
Weve got to calm down.
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Coronavirus - 11th May 2020 7:32am

Originally Posted by fish5133
I take it by calling Govt idiots that you have a higher opinion of yourself than them.. In which case why do you not believe that people with perhaps the same values as yourself may want to change the country for the better and enter into politics and governance.
I dont particularly like politics and perhaps the only reason i would think them fools is that they have actually gone into politics in the first place.


Just one more point....one of the worse things in our corrupt mp world is that people soon forget that mps jeered & clapped NHS not getting a rise in 2017 but their pay always goes up year on year.
60k to 80 k in last 10 yrs.
Yet they stand the hypocrites they are clapping on doorsteps now .
The FBU via firefighters have taken the gov ' to court for 5 years to get the pension theyve paid in for in a 30 yr career. Dont forget useless tosser may former PM boo- fest from the police as she changed their pay !
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th May 2020 7:51am

Anyone watch Boris and his cowardly lion speech? gone the fluffy headed jolly japes, an attempt made with the hairstyle to give an air of authority, then the Churchill speech full of ambiguity, but basically throwing the onus onto the population, words like actively encouraged, stay safe, stay alert, what he really meant was go on take a chance nudge, nudge, wink wink this reeks of Dominic Cummings.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 11th May 2020 8:29am

Well in this instance I'm inclined to agree with you Casper. I think it's herd immunity with collateral damage.
It's such a hard situation because we and indeed the world needs to get going again.

I don't like this message he has given really but god what do you do , I don't think the kids should go back to school yet , at least leave it now till maybe September when we might have a clearer idea.
I won't be doing anything much different than I have but then I am of the older generation so I will have to make my own actions. . I wouldn't like to be Boris or anyone having to face these terrible decisions for everyone.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th May 2020 11:11am


What is the best way to ease the lockdown ? ' Stay at Home' didn't seem to have an impact on a huge number of the population as we well know. 'Don't socialise' , didn't have much impact either. People having friends around for drinky poos in their gardens ! Kids riding around on bikes as groups together. We've seen it all and we have been critical of such .

After 'Stay at Home ' and moving forward , what would be a better guidance ? We will still keep social distancing, we are mostly all aware of the implications should we not follow the social distancing. We will continue to wash hands, and now masks are available, I;m sure there will be a lot more people wearing them.

Any arrivals into the UK over the last 7/8 weeks would have been quarantined or self isolating along with the rest of the abiding population. To now reinforce quarantine for people arriving on flight arrivals, makes sense.

Not sure about those returning to work, but businesses , manufacturing will surely be making their own arrangements for those who return to work. Boris has not said people should go back to work, his words ' if it's possible' , and if people can work from home then continue to do so. .

Some school children might go back to school at the beginning of July .

So basically, apart from the incoming flight he's leaving the overall decisions to individuals, company and businesses.

He's being very much more cautious than some of the European countries .

I must admit, the different positions between England , Wales and Scotland are more confusing . Particularly if people are moving across borders,
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 11th May 2020 11:18am

I'd go with the herd immunity policy which, for some reason, they have distanced themself from.
Let's get everything back up and running.
Posted By: locomotive

Re: Coronavirus - 11th May 2020 6:03pm

In March a Great Nephew and Niece flew over from Norway to attend a Funeral, when they arrived at the airport in Norway they were checked for Temperature etc and told when they returned 3 days later they would have to go into quarantine for 14 days, when they arrived here they just walked in, no questions, no nothing, why didn't we enforce quarantine weeks ago?, bit late now.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th May 2020 6:55pm

Originally Posted by granny

What is the best way to ease the lockdown ? ' Stay at Home' didn't seem to have an impact on a huge number of the population as we well know. 'Don't socialise' , didn't have much impact either. People having friends around for drinky poos in their gardens ! Kids riding around on bikes as groups together. We've seen it all and we have been critical of such .

After 'Stay at Home ' and moving forward , what would be a better guidance ? We will still keep social distancing, we are mostly all aware of the implications should we not follow the social distancing. We will continue to wash hands, and now masks are available, I;m sure there will be a lot more people wearing them.

Any arrivals into the UK over the last 7/8 weeks would have been quarantined or self isolating along with the rest of the abiding population. To now reinforce quarantine for people arriving on flight arrivals, makes sense.

Not sure about those returning to work, but businesses , manufacturing will surely be making their own arrangements for those who return to work. Boris has not said people should go back to work, his words ' if it's possible' , and if people can work from home then continue to do so. .

Some school children might go back to school at the beginning of July .

So basically, apart from the incoming flight he's leaving the overall decisions to individuals, company and businesses.

He's being very much more cautious than some of the European countries .

I must admit, the different positions between England , Wales and Scotland are more confusing . Particularly if people are moving across borders,




You are quite right granny not a lot of impact indeed, so now people are being encouraged to mingle a little bit more, not to continue to stay at home, but to stay alert, control the virus and save lives, the lines are becoming increasingly blurred through lack of clarity, as for the return to work I don't recall the words if possible, but I do remember him very clearly saying " that from Monday people should be actively encouraged to return to work in certain industries" this was then changed to Wednesday the following day, giving employers little time to prepare for a safe working environment, the wearing of masks, we were told that masks offer no protection! now the advice is changing, Boris did say because of our actions we have avoided a catastrophe, really over 32,00 dead and still rising the highest in Europe, although Dominic Raab denied this saying that this is pure speculation, what was that saying arse and elbow?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th May 2020 8:08pm


Have you seen France's lifting of certain restrictions ? As from today they have got zones. Colour coded zones.

Have a read through this, far too confusing :

FRANCE

The red zone will comprise four regions making up the northeast of France (including Paris and its suburbs), as well as the Indian Ocean territory of Mayotte. Altogether, 32 of France’s 101 départements – home to 27 million people – will remain in the red.

For now, though, the government has imposed few additional restrictions on red areas, preferring to leave specifics to local authorities. For the week of May 11, parks and gardens are the only public places that will reopen in green zones but not red, unless otherwise specified by mayors or prefects. Travel between the two zones is allowed, as long as it respects the 100-kilometre limit. And primary schools in both zones will gradually begin to reopen, at local authorities’ discretion.

The gap between the two zones will widen on May 18, when middle schools in the green zone should begin to reopen, while those in the red won’t. At the beginning of June, the difference between the two zones is expected to grow further. At that point, Philippe said, high schools, bars, and restaurants in the green zone may be able to reopen, but not in départements still marked as red.

Schools are one of the biggest flash points in the government’s reopening plans. Education Minister Jean-Michel Blanquer has affirmed that 80 to 85 percent of primary schools will reopen as soon as Tuesday, May 12, with roughly 1 million children set to return to school. This will mark the first step toward a full reopening of the education system
More here :
https://www.france24.com/en/20200509-france-prepares-to-ease-covid-19-lockdown-what-you-need-to-know

Take into consideration that France had more deaths than UK in the last 24hrs. Has done less tests than UK has and less tests per million population.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 12th May 2020 12:16am

The vunerable self isolate for 12 weeks but what happens on week 13? They have stayed indoors but now go out , perhaps a reduce immune system as no sunshine on them, the virus still here. They become the next batch to fill the Covid wards. The Nightingale Hospital was built for a reason..as was the temporary morgue in a London Park
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 12th May 2020 8:36am

Abit trivial this but if you can get hold of any vitimin D capsules it would be a good thing to take. Recommended by one of the tv docs a few weeks ago as it good fir immune system . Mind you the weather been so good think we all getting a good dose of sunshine but a little extra all helps..
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th May 2020 8:55am

Originally Posted by fish5133
The vunerable self isolate for 12 weeks but what happens on week 13? They have stayed indoors but now go out , perhaps a reduce immune system as no sunshine on them, the virus still here. They become the next batch to fill the Covid wards. The Nightingale Hospital was built for a reason..as was the temporary morgue in a London Park


Unfortunately fish the aged and infirm are the collateral damage, the acceptable casualties, the care homes a killing ground, this was said at the outbreak of the virus, basically treat the fittest first, many questions need to be answered over the governments (mis) handling of this crisis.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th May 2020 8:56am

Vitamin D is essential to virtually everything the body does but it’s also toxic and dangerous.

If your body needs it and you are Caucasian, a small number of minutes in the sun will give you a controlled dose far more effectively than supplements.

We aren’t very good at absorbing Vitamin D orally but it is still easy to overdose.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th May 2020 8:56am

Vitamin D is essential to virtually everything the body does but it’s also toxic and dangerous.

If your body needs it and you are Caucasian, a small number of minutes in the sun will give you a controlled dose far more effectively than supplements.

We aren’t very good at absorbing Vitamin D orally but it is still easy to overdose.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 12th May 2020 9:04am

Well thanks for the warning DD but think I'll carry on taking mine.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 12th May 2020 3:42pm

Lockdown fines are set to rise to £100 in England from Wednesday, May 13.
Fines will double for each repeat offence, up to a maximum of £3,200.
This doesn't make sense, just as we are easing lockdown.
You can get on a train or bus, and sometimes you are unable to social distance, but you can't meet up with friends in a park and have a picnic. Honestly, the advice is terrible.

"The news comes as the body that represents rank-and-file police officers warned the Prime Minister’s relaxed lockdown guidance still risks being a set of “loose rules that are left open to interpretation” and is difficult to implement."

Link in the Wirral Globe
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th May 2020 8:11am

The regulations were designed to confuse, the lack of clarity is a hallmark of this government, it makes the truth hard to find, and the guilty even harder, and it is easier to deflect the blame onto someone or something else.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th May 2020 1:22pm



Considering SAGE are scientists, assessors and advisors, do you think Corbyn or Starmer would have chosen differently and who or which organisation might it have been ? Any ideas ?
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 13th May 2020 5:03pm

Originally Posted by granny
Considering SAGE are scientists, assessors and advisors, do you think Corbyn or Starmer would have chosen differently and who or which organisation might it have been ? Any ideas ?

It makes you wonder which advice or organisation, Wales, Scotland and NI are following.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th May 2020 6:28pm

Originally Posted by granny


Considering SAGE are scientists, assessors and advisors, do you think Corbyn or Starmer would have chosen differently and who or which organisation might it have been ? Any ideas ?


Well we wont know will we? but lets hazard a guess, would they have followed the WHO advice that other countries took? test,trace contacts,quarantine,social distancing from the off,or would they do as the government did in the early decision making days of Feb and March to decide on herd immunity, at this time they were advised that not following WHO that it would be inevitable that most would get the disease, they then abandoned this approach because it became clear that the NHS would be overwhelmed leading to hundreds and thousands of deaths, precious time lost, we must also take into account the interference of politics and political advisers, and the reluctance to look to Europe, instead run to America and take notice of an imbecile that thinks drinking dettol will do the job.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th May 2020 10:28pm


Precious time lost ? It wasn;t declared a pandemic until 11th March. Lockdown 10 days later. We had Swine Flu, that was classified as a pandemic by WHO and I don't remember any lockdown, precautionary measures or even advice. The fact it didn't take off in the same way, was not something anyone could have concluded at the onset.
We went to work and didn't really think twice about it. Handled money , coughed and sneezed, didn't wear gloves or face masks. Why were we not advised to do so ?

Moving on, Kier Starmer asked about Austria, Portugal, Norway, Denmark and why their cases were so different. What a plonker !
Austria , 9 million, Portugal 10 million, Norway 5 million , Denmark 6 million populations. Total 30 million.
LONDON 9 million , UK 67 million. with numerous cities of high density.
Poland were fining people who disobeyed the Stay at Home .. between £1000 and £5000 . Had our government put that in place, that would have caused an uproar too.

Half a million live in Liverpool, and when people want to refrain from following the guidelines, then the words 'common sense ' doesn't even register. Do we have to be told 'common sense' , or maybe that's another liberty the country would prefer to see handed over to the Government .

You know very well the difficulties of obtaining the right PPE, amazingly it's all available to buy on the internet ! Face masks, gloves, shields, the lot. Care homes have Agency Staff, could they have taken it into the place of work ? Of course they could have , different people every day.

I'm fed up with the whole lot to be honest , the moans, the groans the deliberate management of pitting the public against each other by the media, and I know exactly what will happen next. Schools... let's kick off about the possibility , yes possibility of schools going back. They have in other countries , so why not here, possibly in another 6 weeks ?

Scotland and Wales, clearly decided to make their announcements first in regard to lifting the lockdown, which they didn't ,but that's up to them. Scotland is not out of the woods yet considering the North East has quite a substantial caseload, as has North West, Midlands and London..
Plus all the figures are skewed from different countries and to try to make it into a competition is clearly bad practice and callous.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th May 2020 10:52pm



One more point. When numbers of deaths in Care Homes are reported by the media, it's interesting to note when they actually refer the deaths resulting from Covid 19 and when they actually refer the deaths resulting from Coronavirus. Two different spectrums and as Coroners atm do not have to have such deaths reported to them , then how much is a convenience of entering 'cause of death' as coronavirus ?

quote " Although coroners and the
coroner service locally are an integral component of the LRF, planning for these
situations clearly goes much wider than simply addressing coroner matters; it will
also involve the practicalities of dealing with all those deaths which are not required
in law to be reported to the coroner. In the case of COVID-19, that could be the
majority of such deaths "
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 12:49am

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny


Considering SAGE are scientists, assessors and advisors, do you think Corbyn or Starmer would have chosen differently and who or which organisation might it have been ? Any ideas ?


Well we wont know will we? but lets hazard a guess, would they have followed the WHO advice that other countries took? test,trace contacts,quarantine,social distancing from the off,or would they do as the government did in the early decision making days of Feb and March to decide on herd immunity, at this time they were advised that not following WHO that it would be inevitable that most would get the disease, they then abandoned this approach because it became clear that the NHS would be overwhelmed leading to hundreds and thousands of deaths, precious time lost, we must also take into account the interference of politics and political advisers, and the reluctance to look to Europe, instead run to America and take notice of an imbecile that thinks drinking dettol will do the job.


A more relevant question is whether you think Corbyn would have thrown those in care and their carers to the wolves?

As to SAGE, their advice to the Government is confidential, how the Government use or abuse that advice is purely down to the Government, they do not have to follow the SAGE advice nor do SAGE have to give a clear cut recommendation.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 1:42am

Originally Posted by granny
Precious time lost ? It wasn;t declared a pandemic until 11th March. Lockdown 10 days later. We had Swine Flu, that was classified as a pandemic by WHO and I don't remember any lockdown, precautionary measures or even advice. The fact it didn't take off in the same way, was not something anyone could have concluded at the onset.
We went to work and didn't really think twice about it. Handled money , coughed and sneezed, didn't wear gloves or face masks. Why were we not advised to do so ?

The common cold is pandemic, declaring something a pandemic is purely a random administrative term, it is of no medical significance, it is only used and needed by international bodies not national bodies such as Governments.

Originally Posted by granny
Moving on, Kier Starmer asked about Austria, Portugal, Norway, Denmark and why their cases were so different. What a plonker !
Austria , 9 million, Portugal 10 million, Norway 5 million , Denmark 6 million populations. Total 30 million.
LONDON 9 million , UK 67 million. with numerous cities of high density[
.
Austria: 0.0069% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of the disease 3.9%

Denmark 0.0092% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 5.0%

India: 0.0002% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 3.3%

Norway:0.0042% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 2.8%

Portugal: 0.011% of the population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 4.2%

UK: 0.049% of population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 14.4%

I included India as their population density is way above ours, especially in their major cities, the rest of the figures speak for themselves and show that regardless of the size of the population the UK have performed exceedingly poorly compared to most other countries.

So while Kier Starmer may be a plonker, he wasn't on this occasion.

Originally Posted by granny
Poland were fining people who disobeyed the Stay at Home .. between £1000 and £5000 . Had our government put that in place, that would have caused an uproar too.

Half a million live in Liverpool, and when people want to refrain from following the guidelines, then the words 'common sense ' doesn't even register. Do we have to be told 'common sense' , or maybe that's another liberty the country would prefer to see handed over to the Government .


The UK put woolly and illogical rules in place, it is obvious that you are going to get a woolly compliance when you do that.

Originally Posted by granny
Plus all the figures are skewed from different countries and to try to make it into a competition is clearly bad practice and callous.

No, it is exposing the callous Government we have, people's lives have just become a statistic which they believe they can bluff out. They are murderers.

Originally Posted by granny
Two different spectrums and as Coroners atm do not have to have such deaths reported to them

The only deaths not reported to the Coroner are those where the cause of death is 100% clear and unequivocal. If the Doctor is not 100% sure of the cause of death, he has to report it to the Coroner, by default deaths are reported to the Coroner, not reporting them is the exception.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 9:49am


Well you can say what you like, they mostly gave advice to be followed . Why do people behave like babies these days. Being spoon fed and having to have the ABC instructions ? Tell me ?

So common cold is a pandemic, and declaring something as a pandemic is just an administrative thing ? That's what you say, so therefore why on earth should Government be blamed for NOT ACTING SOONER. It was surely just an ADMINISTRATIVE term ?

Guidance was given, if people preferred not to follow it, then their choice. Populations , if you want to go into various other areas have a look at the land mass per country , it gives an idea of how people are cramped together . For some reason , nobody seems to think that's part of the cause. You haven't queried or condemned that bit of my post. !

Of course the figures are skewed . 'Sever cases' in UK hasn't changed for the last 4 weeks, its still on 1559 . Check it out daily, it doesn't change.
They haven't enough doctors in India, they're all over here so they probably don't even know how many are dead. That was a really bad comparison, DD.

Not interested in the anti- government approach to all of this. Everybody seems to carry an angry head these days, everyone seems to think they can do better, but ha ha! lets wait and see what happens when this has petered out . Along come the next lot of moaners about the country being back in recession. I know it's not normal to give any credit or acknowledgement of any form, that is evident in every walk of life today. If you said your uncle was Winston Churchill, you can be sure that nobody would even mention it (not with the inverted snobbery of the north) . They would see and pretend they hadn't seen. But, if you said your uncle was Karl Marx, then you would be smothered with love and adulation.
That's how this country has gone.. left, left and more left. But the continued pattern of Corbyn's challenging and confrontational skills, won't do anyone of the left an ounce of good. It's a dead duck and just gets a few quacks in response. The very reason that most people are extremely critical of BBC, SKY and ITV news reports these days. The public are sick of the lack of impartiality ,and that breeds discontent within a nation.

Celebrations of remembrance last week for 75 yrs since VE day. Those chaps and girls had far more strength than most today. They didn't moan, they didn't complain, they didn't see it as them being treated unfairly, or badly, or half starving on 2oz butter a week. They pulled together and won. They won in their hearts and minds too and became united.

Not here in this day and age.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 10:34am

Originally Posted by granny
Well you can say what you like, they mostly gave advice to be followed . Why do people behave like babies these days. Being spoon fed and having to have the ABC instructions ? Tell me ?

Because they are being spoon fed, the Government should have provided truthful statements to the public from day one and applied rules that made sense. The Government was weak and spineless and scared of taking control and responsibility so they uttered nonsensical rubbish instead.

Originally Posted by granny
So common cold is a pandemic, and declaring something as a pandemic is just an administrative thing ? That's what you say, so therefore why on earth should Government be blamed for NOT ACTING SOONER. It was surely just an ADMINISTRATIVE term ?

Because they ignored the extensive medical evidence.

Quote
Guidance was given, if people preferred not to follow it, then their choice. Populations , if you want to go into various other areas have a look at the land mass per country , it gives an idea of how people are cramped together . For some reason , nobody seems to think that's part of the cause. You haven't queried or condemned that bit of my post. !


The guidance was confusing, they gave 6 month MOT extensions to cars but there was no requirement for MOT stations to close. Many businesses closed that didn't need to because of the unclear messages. The self-employed were assured help but many that are entitled have still not received one penny, they have gone for months without an income and again are in purgatory because they don't know if their support is to be continued. they banned driving distances in cars but are now releasing that rule, neither makes sense whatsoever. They promoted public transport which was very high risk and now u-turned many weeks later.

Originally Posted by granny
Of course the figures are skewed . 'Sever cases' in UK hasn't changed for the last 4 weeks, its still on 1559 . Check it out daily, it doesn't change.

Our Government still choose not to state the number of recoveries, for that reason there a number of derived columns in the Worldometer columns that aren't updated properly, however that doesn't affect any of the figures regarding deaths.

Originally Posted by granny
They haven't enough doctors in India, they're all over here so they probably don't even know how many are dead. That was a really bad comparison, DD.

There is no shortage of doctors or administration in the high population density areas, that is one of there public health problems, the doctors all migrate to the Cities. Its only rural areas that have a shortage.

Originally Posted by granny
Not interested in the anti- government approach to all of this. Everybody seems to carry an angry head these days, everyone seems to think they can do better

I thought you valued life.

Originally Posted by granny
Lets wait and see what happens when this has petered out . Along come the next lot of moaners about the country being back in recession.

When your own Government uses the words "punished" when referring to the way they will reclaim the money back off the population it is their choice, that is nothing less than declaring war on their own population. There are ways and means of recovering that money but a Tory Government will disproportionally choose to punish the masses.

Originally Posted by granny
I know it's not normal to give any credit or acknowledgement of any form, that is evident in every walk of life today. If you said your uncle was Winston Churchill, you can be sure that nobody would even mention it (not with the inverted snobbery of the north) . They would see and pretend they hadn't seen.

One of my uncles was John Reid, if that helps whatever point you are trying to make????

Quote
But the continued pattern of Corbyn's challenging and confrontational skills, won't do anyone of the left an ounce of good.

You've used that term before, I fail to understand where it has come from, Corbyn was criticised by many, including you, of being an irrelevant, ineffective wet lettuce. Now you are saying he was strong and powerful????
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 10:59am

Originally Posted by granny

Precious time lost ? It wasn;t declared a pandemic until 11th March. Lockdown 10 days later. We had Swine Flu, that was classified as a pandemic by WHO and I don't remember any lockdown, precautionary measures or even advice. The fact it didn't take off in the same way, was not something anyone could have concluded at the onset.
We went to work and didn't really think twice about it. Handled money , coughed and sneezed, didn't wear gloves or face masks. Why were we not advised to do so ?

Moving on, Kier Starmer asked about Austria, Portugal, Norway, Denmark and why their cases were so different. What a plonker !
Austria , 9 million, Portugal 10 million, Norway 5 million , Denmark 6 million populations. Total 30 million.
LONDON 9 million , UK 67 million. with numerous cities of high density.
Poland were fining people who disobeyed the Stay at Home .. between £1000 and £5000 . Had our government put that in place, that would have caused an uproar too.

Half a million live in Liverpool, and when people want to refrain from following the guidelines, then the words 'common sense ' doesn't even register. Do we have to be told 'common sense' , or maybe that's another liberty the country would prefer to see handed over to the Government .

You know very well the difficulties of obtaining the right PPE, amazingly it's all available to buy on the internet ! Face masks, gloves, shields, the lot. Care homes have Agency Staff, could they have taken it into the place of work ? Of course they could have , different people every day.

I'm fed up with the whole lot to be honest , the moans, the groans the deliberate management of pitting the public against each other by the media, and I know exactly what will happen next. Schools... let's kick off about the possibility , yes possibility of schools going back. They have in other countries , so why not here, possibly in another 6 weeks ?

Scotland and Wales, clearly decided to make their announcements first in regard to lifting the lockdown, which they didn't ,but that's up to them. Scotland is not out of the woods yet considering the North East has quite a substantial caseload, as has North West, Midlands and London..
Plus all the figures are skewed from different countries and to try to make it into a competition is clearly bad practice and callous.



It wasn't declared a pandemic, but the government knew of the consequences of a likely pandemic and the advice given by WHO to China and other countries, yet chose to ignore it why didn't they start putting a plan into place as a precaution? What did SAGE do? they also knew it was coming, were they over ruled by bad advice from the political side which goes back to Dominic Cummings remarks, of course these remarks were denied well if you look at it now they would be.

I think its a bit rich to blame the general public, if the government failed to take it seriously why would the public? the lock down wasn't enforced, because we didn't have the manpower to enforce it, a sadly depleted police force that cant cope with day to day crime as it is, the forces depleted and overstretched, they couldn't of handled any civil unrest, of course now the government have the opportunity to direct blame elsewhere.

You speak of the spirit during the war years, we knew what the enemy was, what he was capable of due to his actions in other countries, we knew there was a possibility of an invasion we got ready for it, how has this government motivated us? the front line starved of equipment, confusing information and instructions, but there was during the war those that would seek to claim fame by gambling with the lives of others.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 11:32am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
One of my uncles was John Reid, if that helps whatever point you are trying to make????

That explains the staunch backing of Labour wink
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
UK: 0.049% of population have died of CV, mortality rate of disease 14.4%

The NHS wasn't overwhelmed so, maybe it is the lifestyle for the majority of deaths and why the mortality rate is so high, just a thought.


Anyway, I don't blame the Government.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 11:45am

Originally Posted by casper
I think its a bit rich to blame the general public, if the government failed to take it seriously why would the public?

It is too easy to blame the Government for everything. I for one, reckon the Government took it very seriously. I also agree with the easing of the lockdown and think Wales, Scotland and NI should have followed suit, but hey-ho, what do I know.
These are divisive times we are living in at the moment.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 3:01pm

This antibodies test seems like good news, at least a positive step I think. Does anybody else think that this virus was around end of last year? I have heard so many people say they had the same symptoms as this , me included, at this time. I remember the tirednesss and cough and saying to my family " like no flu I've ever had". It didn't last long but if this test becomes available to me I will definitely take it. I don't know whether it would tell you if it's too long ago or what . Obviously we will learn more about the antibody test as time goes by..
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 6:46pm

Originally Posted by cools
This antibodies test seems like good news, at least a positive step I think. Does anybody else think that this virus was around end of last year? I have heard so many people say they had the same symptoms as this , me included, at this time. I remember the tirednesss and cough and saying to my family " like no flu I've ever had". It didn't last long but if this test becomes available to me I will definitely take it. I don't know whether it would tell you if it's too long ago or what . Obviously we will learn more about the antibody test as time goes by..


I've also heard this a lot, it was just flu at the end of last year because the mortality rate doesn't tie-up with coronavirus. its relatively easy for flu to turn into pneumonia. It wasn't even coincidental, it was the regular flu season and we continued to have a large number of flu cases throughout the start of coronavirus.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 8:55pm

Well DD, You didn't say anything really in your previous post in response to mine. Not sure what points you were trying to make really. Being challenging and confrontational didn't make Corbyn strong . What gave you that idea ? It was all he could offer , every Wednesday in PMQ's.

I take it you mean Baron Reid of Cardowan ? A member of the UK 'Scottish' Government of Tony Blair ? Uncle ? He must have been a bit of a kid when you were born then ? Well, just like so many other Labour MP's he started off in the Communist Party. Congratulation anyway, my Gt grandfather was a 'Sir' and he entertained Lloyd George in his parlour to afternoon tea. I suppose Baron is a rank or few higher than a 'Sir', but I won't hold that against you.

However, it has to be said that you and Casper have obviously broken through Hadrians wall at some point , so maybe we must accept the Scottish anti -Tory sentiment, it is the norm for north of the border. Maybe it would be better if Scotland breaks away, I dare say it would also please you.. Good grief ! Who would want to be Governed by a Tory if they didn't have to be ?

Just as a matter if interest , when you quote percentages for specific purposes, how about covid cases per million population ?

Spain 584
Belgium 768
Italy 519
UK 495
US 262

So does that make it better ? No it does not, but population intensity seems to be something that neither you or Casper can come to terms with as a huge part of the ongoing numbers.
How is it that Care Homes still have cases? They've been in lockdown for 7/8 weeks now. No visitors, so where is it coming from ? The patients won't be passing it onto the care staff , not if the homes are following all the guidelines.

After that, I suppose I have to grovel and tell you I love you too. Love you. Casper seems to have taken the huff with me. I can tell in the words he uses.



Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 14th May 2020 9:05pm

Originally Posted by cools
This antibodies test seems like good news, at least a positive step I think. Does anybody else think that this virus was around end of last year? I have heard so many people say they had the same symptoms as this , me included, at this time. I remember the tirednesss and cough and saying to my family " like no flu I've ever had". It didn't last long but if this test becomes available to me I will definitely take it. I don't know whether it would tell you if it's too long ago or what . Obviously we will learn more about the antibody test as time goes by..



Yep. A few people at the beginning of this year in January. No deaths related to it though. One friend was knocked up for weeks, and is absolutely terrified of getting Covid 19. She knows she won't survive it. So has she had it already ? We wouldn't know, but she picked it up from her granddaughter..
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th May 2020 4:21am

I've not followed what's gone on inside Belgium but been watching their basic stats for a long time, not good at all.

We will overtake Italy and probably just sneak ahead of Spain by August on the rates stats unless they are unfortunate enough to have major second waves that we avoid.

The population density of our major cities is not higher than most other major cities in Europe. Attempts at amalgamating stats was a bit fruitless because the classification is somewhat different in some countries, most pan-European stats count towns and cities as cities by the look of it hence France and UK have about 1000 cities whereas I think we only classify 59 for UK.

But Netherlands as a country has the highest population density in Europe and has some very dense cities. India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are way ahead of us on population density both city-wise and country-wise.

I was reading the analysts report the other day on what was influencing factors for Coronavirus. Temperature has little effect, population density has a large effect followed by testing and travel.

New Zealand has done very well in locking down the virus but what does that leave it in the future? Permanent fear and controls? The 1990 pandemic of swine flu has now become our regular winter flu, its no longer a novel virus and so we have some built in immunity. Herd immunity or something similar with a different name does seem to be the only realistic long term strategy for coronavirus but I'm sure some relieving treatments (not cures) can be found in the shorter term which could improve outcomes.

The smoking stats across a number of countries are showing that it must be giving some protection either directly or indirectly. Likewise a surprisingly number of aged COPD suffers have unexpectedly made recovery from coronavirus. Adding those two things together plus some observations about ibuprofen makes you wonder if the common factor is people having inflamed lungs have some protection? Pure conjecture of course but its joining anomalies together.

Anyways, I'm a bit behind on the CV stuff now, I've had some other projects on the go and I've not even caught up on the new lockdown rules so I'll probably bow out of this one now, I haven't got the research time any longer.

And of course, I love you too granny ..... without grovelling...
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th May 2020 8:10am

[q

After that, I suppose I have to grovel and tell you I love you too. Love you. Casper seems to have taken the huff with me. I can tell in the words he uses.



[/quote]

Oh stop it granny, you know I still love you.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 16th May 2020 8:43am

Sir Patrick Vallance the government chief scientific adviser said to keep the R number below one and control the virus, it is vital that people stay alert and continue to follow the latest government guidelines to the full.

Matt Hancock said the R number was an incredibly important figure but we don't think it is above one.


Government guidelines confused

Attached picture bojo.jpg
Posted By: snowhite

Re: Coronavirus - 17th May 2020 11:35am

Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Coronavirus - 18th May 2020 8:11pm

Please stop waffling about useless & incompetent government....waste of breath.
Go to joe rogans youtube and watch doctor rhonda patrick talk about vitamin D .
Its not dangerous as said on here even at 50,000 ius . Trials with K2 with dark skin peoples started year ago.
Interesting points on somalis in sweden with chronic low vit D and how it controls hormone production & body protection.
Zero advice from scummy torys about helping your body is there !?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 18th May 2020 9:39pm


Not just the humans. 44 elephants have been found dead in Botswana. Unknown causes. Ruling out anthrax or poisons as they would also kill jackals and others that feed on the carcasses. Waiting for post mortem results.


"" Okavango Elephants death toll rise to 44
The death toll in the Okavango Panhandle elephants has risen to 44.

Yesterday 36 carcasses were counted from which 14 carcasses were discovered 40 kilometres from Seronga catchment villages, the epicentre of all carcasses discoveries so far.

Today 8 new discoveries were made taking the overall count to 44 elephants. The count is still ongoing.""
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 18th May 2020 10:37pm



Should the children go back to school ? I'm not sure if it's good or bad just yet. My thoughts go to the children who have been locked up in homes where domestic violence might have been. They will be desperate to get out.

Maybe it should be left to parents to make a decision for a period of time.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 18th May 2020 11:55pm

Perhaps have a limited number of kids in school at any one time so each one does two day a week. Both the pupils and staff need to be protected, discipline is going to be a problem, yet another weapon in the tyke's armoury against both staff and other pupils.

It has to be assessed on a very localised basis not at national scale.

I see Wirral Council have come down heavily against the 1st June
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 19th May 2020 6:42pm

I see the blame game has started,Therese Coffey the work and pensions secretary has blamed its coronavirus mistakes on wrong scientific advice, stating I'm not surprised people think we made the wrong decision.

In response Public Health England insisted Matt Hancock's Department of health was responsible for ordering the governments testing strategy, shouldn't it be Matt H making these allegations? oh maybe not it would invite some awkward questions, speaking of, where is Boris? is being kept out of the way in case he does a Trump, latest figures show around 44,000 deaths and still rising.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 19th May 2020 9:23pm



All sorts of figures are being floated around, it's getting more and more complicated to follow the graphs that are being delivered on a daily basis. I thought 41,000 was the figure mentioned for death certificates, but could be wrong.

Bad and as tragic as they are , we continue to judge by the number of deaths as a comparison to EU countries . When looking at the cases for each country in Europe, it would seem the other countries have a higher percentage of recoveries to the UK. That, I believe should be questioned. Why have there been more recoveries elsewhere ?

It was mentioned in April that UK could reach 40,000 but that was the forecast for the first wave and suggested there could be 4 or 5 waves . That is very worrying and when certain countries are now pushing tourism, because it's one of the biggest money spinners to build their economy again, then I think we can expect this as an ongoing pandemic for a long time.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th May 2020 6:22am

France has had to shut down some of the schools they re-opened, this was 100% predicted by everyone except the politicians. Macron in the meantime has lost his majority, major protest in the streets, a lot of turmoil in France generally. Surely that ends Macron's ambition of becoming the EU's figurehead.

Things won't and can't return to normal, the politicians need to earn their salaries and think about new ways of working instead of putting soundbites together.
Posted By: Longnails

Re: Coronavirus - 21st May 2020 5:26pm

I read somewhere yesterday that there is an antibody test that was about to go on sale but I can't find that information today.
I wonder how true this is?
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 21st May 2020 5:35pm

I would be interested in this test and would buy one if not too dear. The last I heard was they were advising not to buy unless passed by NHS I think . Soppose eventually they will be able to buy from maybe Boots and such places.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 21st May 2020 6:46pm

Off Sky News
"Simpler "finger prick" type tests for antibodies that could be carried out at home are being looked at as well but currently none have yet been approved for use."
Unsure when they will be available to the wider public because they want to test every fronline worker before anyone else.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd May 2020 1:18pm



Apparently this virus can be transmitted by farts ! crazy Is 2 meters social distancing enough ?
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd May 2020 2:29pm

Originally Posted by granny


Apparently this virus can be transmitted by farts ! crazy Is 2 meters social distancing enough ?

10 metres from me when I fart smile
Posted By: Longnails

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd May 2020 10:50pm

Oh Granny, I had a good laugh at your message.

My American friend said, if a fart can get through 2 bum cheeks, a pair of panties and a pair of jeans, then a mask will not protect anyone from getting coronavirus! This was her joke of course!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd May 2020 11:12pm


Hahaha !

The person I heard it from, said that just like the cotton masks are better at preventing the spread, if we should wear cotton knickers or underpants the protection would be greater !. That was when I went in to hysterics, but that same person actually believed it !!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd May 2020 11:14pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by granny


Apparently this virus can be transmitted by farts ! crazy Is 2 meters social distancing enough ?

10 metres from me when I fart smile


Give us plenty of warning when you are out and about, Mikeeb.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd May 2020 7:50am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by granny


Apparently this virus can be transmitted by farts ! crazy Is 2 meters social distancing enough ?

10 metres from me when I fart smile


Give us plenty of warning when you are out and about, Mikeeb.


I hope this isn't true, I could have infected Wallasey and destroyed the ozone layer, my comic cuts have been overactive lately. shifty
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd May 2020 8:18pm


Are you bragging , Casper ? Maybe you're the reason why our peninsular in known as 'windy Wirral ' ?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th May 2020 9:01am

Originally Posted by granny

Are you bragging , Casper ? Maybe you're the reason why our peninsular in known as 'windy Wirral ' ?


We can't really cough now to disguise the sound, as a cough would draw more attention than a fart, difficult times, perhaps they could design some anti trumpet trousers.
Posted By: Fidelio

Re: Coronavirus - 24th May 2020 9:47am

It’s such an ugly word “Fart”, but luckily many people have their own euphemisms for it, a lovely old neighbour of mine who hailed from Bolton called it “Dropping your clog”, my personal favourite is “Botty Burp”. Any more?
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 24th May 2020 10:53am

well off topic I know, after 31 years of marriage I can honestly say I have never heard my wife fart whilst her sister is a champion farter who can fart at will. Loud and proud.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th May 2020 11:02am

Originally Posted by snowshoes
well off topic I know, after 31 years of marriage I can honestly say I have never heard my wife fart whilst her sister is a champion farter who can fart at will. Loud and proud.


Apparently it's a well known fact from a reliable source, that ladies don't fart,, allegedly they blow fairy kisses which unfortunately smell like gunpowder and lard, at least I own up.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 24th May 2020 12:58pm

My Old Man exemplified the "Brown Trombone" with his expert control of pitch and timbre, perfected by decades of post-Roast Dinner Grandstand-watching.

If only me Dad's farts were the only thing to worry about now. Good times.
Posted By: snowshoes

Re: Coronavirus - 24th May 2020 1:48pm

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by snowshoes
well off topic I know, after 31 years of marriage I can honestly say I have never heard my wife fart whilst her sister is a champion farter who can fart at will. Loud and proud.


Apparently it's a well known fact from a reliable source, that ladies don't fart,, allegedly they blow fairy kisses which unfortunately smell like gunpowder and lard, at least I own up.



lol 'gunpowder and lard' luv it!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th May 2020 1:54pm


'Puff ' and 'tinkle' .. we were brought up proper.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th May 2020 5:34pm

Originally Posted by granny

'Puff ' and 'tinkle' .. we were brought up proper.


I love the elegance of ladies when they describe flatulence, such inoffensive words, how do they describe the upper limits of the Beaufort scale I wonder? think
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 7:35am


Maybe we should get back on track, Casper ?
It comes to something when the only topic that brings forth comments is , flatulence ! Although, it has given some well earned rest to coronavirus.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 9:56am

I can see it now - the next novelty Christmas book, 'Great British Farts' (no, not politicians in this instance!) An exploration of the many dialect and slang terms abounding in our islands for noxious effluvia of the bowels'. Anyone fancy tackling that?!

Right - back on topic! On you go...
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 1:46pm

Originally Posted by granny

Maybe we should get back on track, Casper ?
It comes to something when the only topic that brings forth comments is , flatulence ! Although, it has given some well earned rest to coronavirus.


Right you are granny enough of the frivolity, let us take a look at the Dominic Cummings saga, Boris so desperate to hang on to his puppet master he is giving him support, without him Boris is laid bare as the egotistical braggart he is, all piss and wind and false promises, he has the gall to describe Cummings as a concerned parent, does Boris know and understand the meaning of this? and would he rush to the aid of his "other" kids? double standards indeed.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 2:25pm

Big mistake by Cummings not even apologising or looking slightly sorry. He's not at all likeable, I think he should do the honourable thing and resign. I feel sorry for Boris he doesn't look well and what a burden it is being prime minister at the moment.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 2:43pm

With a new baby in the house he's probably a bit short on sleep at the moment! Not to mention any sleeplessness caused by mulling over how he could have handled the whole virus situation better...
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 7:43pm

Originally Posted by cools
Big mistake by Cummings not even apologising or looking slightly sorry. He's not at all likeable, I think he should do the honourable thing and resign. I feel sorry for Boris he doesn't look well and what a burden it is being prime minister at the moment.

Losing sympathy with Boris after listening to him defend Cummings. Glad they got us over the Brexit line but think Boris has just made himself as bad as Cummings in standing by his man.. Seen it all before big show of support followed in a day or two of him resigning.
Posted By: Longnails

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 9:28pm

Cummings needs to resign; one rule for him and another rule for the whole nation! Why can't this man see what he has done is so very wrong!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 9:38pm


So far as I'm concerned, in the same situation I would have done the same thing.
No crime committed because there was no law. Therefore making a decision to look after a wife and child is not something anyone should have to apologise for.

If any man can say they would leave their 4 yr old child in a vulnerable position, then shame on them.

Media have lied and whipped it up with inflammatory accusations. Sick to death of the press and media to be honest. It also looks like a whole new batch of newly qualified journalists have just been taken on, and they're all trying to get the latest scoop .
Pathetic, the whole lot.

And Casper, we know you don't like anyone within the Tory party, simply because they are Tory so anything you say is instantly dismissed for being character assassinations. Tell me, what on earth has Boris's hair got to do with anything.... ( a point you made last week.) ?

Why was Kinnock not scrutinised for travelling from Wales to London to see his father on his birthday and back home again in the same day ? He said he was delivering provisions. He may have been, I don't know, but clearly it was in breach of guidelines, and he didn't need to take his wife with him. Should he be sacked as an MP ? I don't think so, because he's a good MP but some might think Starmer shoudl tell him to go for disobeying the lockdown rules .
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th May 2020 10:17pm

Originally Posted by fish5133
Originally Posted by cools
Big mistake by Cummings not even apologising or looking slightly sorry. He's not at all likeable, I think he should do the honourable thing and resign. I feel sorry for Boris he doesn't look well and what a burden it is being prime minister at the moment.

Losing sympathy with Boris after listening to him defend Cummings. Glad they got us over the Brexit line but think Boris has just made himself as bad as Cummings in standing by his man.. Seen it all before big show of support followed in a day or two of him resigning.


Thing is Fish, I believe we need Cummings more than ever to help get us through the rest of Brexit. It's in the National interest that he should stay at the moment. If he should go, then the rest is history.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 8:33am

Originally Posted by granny

So far as I'm concerned, in the same situation I would have done the same thing.
No crime committed because there was no law. Therefore making a decision to look after a wife and child is not something anyone should have to apologise for.

If any man can say they would leave their 4 yr old child in a vulnerable position, then shame on them.

Media have lied and whipped it up with inflammatory accusations. Sick to death of the press and media to be honest. It also looks like a whole new batch of newly qualified journalists have just been taken on, and they're all trying to get the latest scoop .
Pathetic, the whole lot.

And Casper, we know you don't like anyone within the Tory party, simply because they are Tory so anything you say is instantly dismissed for being character assassinations. Tell me, what on earth has Boris's hair got to do with anything.... ( a point you made last week.) ?

Why was Kinnock not scrutinised for travelling from Wales to London to see his father on his birthday and back home again in the same day ? He said he was delivering provisions. He may have been, I don't know, but clearly it was in breach of guidelines, and he didn't need to take his wife with him. Should he be sacked as an MP ? I don't think so, because he's a good MP but some might think Starmer shoudl tell him to go for disobeying the lockdown rules .



Many have had to make similar hard decisions throughout this crisis, many without any support at all, both men and women to comply with the guidelines, is it also shame on them?

Media have lied really, who stood in front of the camera's and tried to dismiss the allegations of the other trips he made as lies with no substance ? can you explain the inflammatory accusations.

So anything I say whether true or false will be dismissed because I don't like the Tory party ( which is very true), yes I did mention Boris's hair it is part of his presentation as a jolly likeable chap ready with a quip a selling point the reason I did mention it because he plastered it down to make him look more like a serious leader, unfortunately when the real test comes, when it is a matter of life and death it doesn't work he lacks the qualities, that is way he needs Cummings so badly he will forgive anything, it is also worth noting that many Tories don't agree with his decision.

As to Kinnock, I didn't hear or read much about it (did he visit any castles whilst there?) and if he breached the rules then he should be dealt with I have no problem with that and never implied otherwise, but to use it as an excuse to legitimise Cumming's behaviour, well you know the old adage, two wrongs don't make a right, I also noticed a few Tory mouth pieces trying the same tactic, spread the blame point the finger somewhere else, aka throw some shit and it might stick.

And finally you say you would have done the same thing, so you would have visited a Castle and sat admiring the view on a towpath with your allegedly ill partner whilst infected, not very granny is it?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 9:13am

Originally Posted by casper
The regulations were designed to confuse, the lack of clarity is a hallmark of this government, it makes the truth hard to find, and the guilty even harder, and it is easier to deflect the blame onto someone or something else.


Just thought I would re post.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 9:34am



Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny

So far as I'm concerned, in the same situation I would have done the same thing.
No crime committed because there was no law. Therefore making a decision to look after a wife and child is not something anyone should have to apologise for.

If any man can say they would leave their 4 yr old child in a vulnerable position, then shame on them.

Media have lied and whipped it up with inflammatory accusations. Sick to death of the press and media to be honest. It also looks like a whole new batch of newly qualified journalists have just been taken on, and they're all trying to get the latest scoop .
Pathetic, the whole lot.

And Casper, we know you don't like anyone within the Tory party, simply because they are Tory so anything you say is instantly dismissed for being character assassinations. Tell me, what on earth has Boris's hair got to do with anything.... ( a point you made last week.) ?

Why was Kinnock not scrutinised for travelling from Wales to London to see his father on his birthday and back home again in the same day ? He said he was delivering provisions. He may have been, I don't know, but clearly it was in breach of guidelines, and he didn't need to take his wife with him. Should he be sacked as an MP ? I don't think so, because he's a good MP but some might think Starmer shoudl tell him to go for disobeying the lockdown rules .



Many have had to make similar hard decisions throughout this crisis, many without any support at all, both men and women to comply with the guidelines, is it also shame on them?

Media have lied really, who stood in front of the camera's and tried to dismiss the allegations of the other trips he made as lies with no substance ? can you explain the inflammatory accusations.

So anything I say whether true or false will be dismissed because I don't like the Tory party ( which is very true), yes I did mention Boris's hair it is part of his presentation as a jolly likeable chap ready with a quip a selling point the reason I did mention it because he plastered it down to make him look more like a serious leader, unfortunately when the real test comes, when it is a matter of life and death it doesn't work he lacks the qualities, that is way he needs Cummings so badly he will forgive anything, it is also worth noting that many Tories don't agree with his decision.

As to Kinnock, I didn't hear or read much about it (did he visit any castles whilst there?) and if he breached the rules then he should be dealt with I have no problem with that and never implied otherwise, but to use it as an excuse to legitimise Cumming's behaviour, well you know the old adage, two wrongs don't make a right, I also noticed a few Tory mouth pieces trying the same tactic, spread the blame point the finger somewhere else, aka throw some shit and it might stick.

And finally you say you would have done the same thing, so you would have visited a Castle and sat admiring the view on a towpath with your allegedly ill partner whilst infected, not very granny is it?


Same thing, yet again, Just to ask, have you managed to get your hair cut in the last two months ? There's a lot of people who haven't due to social distancing. Maybe your wife can do yours, but not all wives have a talent for such things.

However, that is of no concern.. Let's get to the real point you have dragged up about visiting a castle.... Barnard Castle in this instance . I'm not even sure if you actually listened to his testimony yesterday , Casper. Even if you did , nobody visited a castle, and do you know why ? Because all Castle's throughout the country were closed ! Barnard Castle is English Heritage, and one has to pay an entrance fee,,, it was closed.

He admitted he went to the town of Barnard Castle , and gave his testimony on that. There were clearly other people out and about around the town, and yes he said he sat by the river bank away from everyone.If you prefer not to believe his statement, so be it. It's not surprising as you don't believe anything apart from the bilge the Guardian, and others pump out on a daily basis. I suppose that not your fault though . He did clarify the point about herd immunity.... did you hear that ? That was another black mark against him in your book.
And yes, I would have done what he did. If he had been very poorly, then it makes sense to do a test drive before making a long journey. Particularly if there are no stopping places on route.. We've all felt wobbly after being ill.

Now go and get your hair put in a pigtail.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 9:41am

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by casper
The regulations were designed to confuse, the lack of clarity is a hallmark of this government, it makes the truth hard to find, and the guilty even harder, and it is easier to deflect the blame onto someone or something else.


Just thought I would re post.



Exactly, that was the position taken at the time, then all of a sudden the position changed and everything was crystal clear as to the do's and don'ts . Why did it take so long for the sceptics and political activists to understand the clarity of the guidance ?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 10:09am

Cummings had a potentially infected child - where was the sense in taking that child to a vulnerable household? Would you have done that to your vulnerable parents? Furthermore, travelling 260 miles in the same vehicle when you suspect you have CV is further increasing the chances the child is also infected.

There was absolutely nothing "exceptional" about his case - it was common to a significant proportion of the rest of the population of the UK, therefore he broke the law. The law was about infection, you can't use infection as an exemption from a law about that same infection.

And yes, there was a law - Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 which came into force on the 26th March - before Cummings travelled. He broke the law.

Cummings is a professional tactician (come acting Prime Minister) - his remit is to get and keep the Tories in power whilst maintaining the Tories ability to freely steal and kill, he has no remit to do what is good for the country. He is Gollum personified.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 11:02am

Originally Posted by granny


Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny

So far as I'm concerned, in the same situation I would have done the same thing.
No crime committed because there was no law. Therefore making a decision to look after a wife and child is not something anyone should have to apologise for.

If any man can say they would leave their 4 yr old child in a vulnerable position, then shame on them.

Media have lied and whipped it up with inflammatory accusations. Sick to death of the press and media to be honest. It also looks like a whole new batch of newly qualified journalists have just been taken on, and they're all trying to get the latest scoop .
Pathetic, the whole lot.

And Casper, we know you don't like anyone within the Tory party, simply because they are Tory so anything you say is instantly dismissed for being character assassinations. Tell me, what on earth has Boris's hair got to do with anything.... ( a point you made last week.) ?

Why was Kinnock not scrutinised for travelling from Wales to London to see his father on his birthday and back home again in the same day ? He said he was delivering provisions. He may have been, I don't know, but clearly it was in breach of guidelines, and he didn't need to take his wife with him. Should he be sacked as an MP ? I don't think so, because he's a good MP but some might think Starmer shoudl tell him to go for disobeying the lockdown rules .



Many have had to make similar hard decisions throughout this crisis, many without any support at all, both men and women to comply with the guidelines, is it also shame on them?

Media have lied really, who stood in front of the camera's and tried to dismiss the allegations of the other trips he made as lies with no substance ? can you explain the inflammatory accusations.

So anything I say whether true or false will be dismissed because I don't like the Tory party ( which is very true), yes I did mention Boris's hair it is part of his presentation as a jolly likeable chap ready with a quip a selling point the reason I did mention it because he plastered it down to make him look more like a serious leader, unfortunately when the real test comes, when it is a matter of life and death it doesn't work he lacks the qualities, that is way he needs Cummings so badly he will forgive anything, it is also worth noting that many Tories don't agree with his decision.

As to Kinnock, I didn't hear or read much about it (did he visit any castles whilst there?) and if he breached the rules then he should be dealt with I have no problem with that and never implied otherwise, but to use it as an excuse to legitimise Cumming's behaviour, well you know the old adage, two wrongs don't make a right, I also noticed a few Tory mouth pieces trying the same tactic, spread the blame point the finger somewhere else, aka throw some shit and it might stick.

And finally you say you would have done the same thing, so you would have visited a Castle and sat admiring the view on a towpath with your allegedly ill partner whilst infected, not very granny is it?


Same thing, yet again, Just to ask, have you managed to get your hair cut in the last two months ? There's a lot of people who haven't due to social distancing. Maybe your wife can do yours, but not all wives have a talent for such things.

However, that is of no concern.. Let's get to the real point you have dragged up about visiting a castle.... Barnard Castle in this instance . I'm not even sure if you actually listened to his testimony yesterday , Casper. Even if you did , nobody visited a castle, and do you know why ? Because all Castle's throughout the country were closed ! Barnard Castle is English Heritage, and one has to pay an entrance fee,,, it was closed.

He admitted he went to the town of Barnard Castle , and gave his testimony on that. There were clearly other people out and about around the town, and yes he said he sat by the river bank away from everyone.If you prefer not to believe his statement, so be it. It's not surprising as you don't believe anything apart from the bilge the Guardian, and others pump out on a daily basis. I suppose that not your fault though . He did clarify the point about herd immunity.... did you hear that ? That was another black mark against him in your book.
And yes, I would have done what he did. If he had been very poorly, then it makes sense to do a test drive before making a long journey. Particularly if there are no stopping places on route.. We've all felt wobbly after being ill.

Now go and get your hair put in a pigtail.


So he visited the town of Barnard Castle and sat by a river bank why? if he was testing his eyesight and his fitness to drive why would require his wife to be him and why would they sit by a riverbank? surely he would have picked a route that would have tested his alertness and fitness to drive, without having to stop off anywhere maybe they let him take a break when he took his driving test and he thought it was okay, I mean being such a fine upstanding chap surely he wouldn't want to risk any injury to his wife, after all he didn't have such concerns when he drove his wife and child down there, and why was there an attempt to discredit the reports that he visited other places, you know the ones, the lies the press told, if anything it has highlighted to many that we have a government that is prepared to lie and deceive to protect its own.

As for hair cutting, I have never been one for long hair, fortunately enough I visited the barbers the Friday before lockdown, and have clippers a no 3 all over, done by my good self, nice and tidy no drama's, although I do wonder why Boris's hair appears to have stayed the same length throughout, not withstanding the attempt to flatten it down to make himself look more statesman like and believable.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 11:16am

It was his wife's birthday, surely that classes as exceptional - I mean, I'm amazed anyone would marry him.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 11:47am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
It was his wife's birthday, surely that classes as exceptional - I mean, I'm amazed anyone would marry him.


Excuse me ! You handed your notice in on this topic last week.

I wouldn't class 15 mins break on a river bank much of a birthday celebration ! Why wouldn't anyone marry him ? Women like men with brains. Are you married DD ? No ! ok, sorry for asking .
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 11:48am



@ Casper, He was risking injury to his wife by staying in London..

I think that he has behaved in a far more reasonable way than those who now persecute him, surround and threaten his child's home - and apparently now also the home of his elderly parents - for what I believe are purely political motives.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 12:18pm

He shouldn't have gone. The rule was clear, stay at home if you have symptons.
Also the rule was brought in to stop the spread around the country. By leaving London, which was the worst hit area in the UK at the time, there was a chance of taking the virus north.
He ignored it because he thought no one would notice and it and has now blew up in his face.

Also, the driving 15 minutes to see if he was fit to drive was a load of crap. He says he wanted to see if his eyesight was ok but then sat down for 15 minutes admiring the view. I'm afraid you will know if it is ok, and certainly not drive if it isn't.

The only reason I can think of why they are not sacking him is, Boris will only have 1 leg to stand on if he is gone.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 12:38pm

Originally Posted by granny


@ Casper, He was risking injury to his wife by staying in London..

I think that he has behaved in a far more reasonable way than those who now persecute him, surround and threaten his child's home - and apparently now also the home of his elderly parents - for what I believe are purely political motives.


Do you really believe that his family were under a threat of violence ?personally I would have felt quite safe with a bunch of journalists outside my home, locked down under surveillance, police on call, a proverbial Fort Knox, these people are the same as celebrities they welcome the media intrusion when it suits, are you suggesting the Labour Party instructed this gathering for political gain? or was it public interest as far as I am aware they haven't used this for political gain only asking for a enquiry along with many others, he had the virus when he took them on a 200 odd mile trip wasn't he concerned for his ability to drive then, even some of those Tories I despise so much have had the decency to echo the concerns of their constituents instead of trying blag it out, I also note you show concern that if Cummings goes oops! not a pun, it will affect what the government is trying to do, oh dear! the organ grinder sacked, who does that leave?
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 12:39pm

I've got to disagree with you on this Granny, sorry.. Hes made a huge mistake in doing this and undermined all the advice about , don't travel, if you have symptoms isolate 14 days etc. Sure with his contacts and wealth a solution could have been found if the worst had happened. People are having to do this with a lot less resources he had. I would have respected him more if he had at least apologised and said he panicked as you do when your children are at risk from anything. I don't agree with hounding him and his parents. Don't know why you'd want to put up with it all I'd just resign and bite the bullet.
All these high profile people are going to be stalked by press so they unfortunately have to follow the rules to the letter. Poor Boris I feel for him , he was so hyped up winning the election and getting Brexit done think he was sideswiped by this virus and the ferocity of it. Then he got the damn thing and I don't think he's fully recovered from it , he looks quite ill to me. It's going to be hard now to get people to act responsibility , think it's deffo herd immunity and hope you don't get it bad.
I just hope they ride it out and get on with the task of getting us out of this situation , heard that maybe the virus is starting to burn itself out , hope so!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 1:58pm

Being a SPAD, Cummings has broken some of the SPAD guidelines as well.

Many of the SAGE scientists are now coming out saying that the Government hasn't been following their advice and recommendations, something that has been suspected for a long time. When the Government starts statements off by heavily emphasising "Following expert scientific advice" you know they are falsely blaming others for what they know are their own dodgy decisions. They chose to gamble instead of taking advice, except this time they were gambling with peoples lives - not something that bothers the Tory hierarchy.

Boris looked the same as when he was Mayor of London when he realised he hadn't got a clue what he was doing there. He's under a lot of pressure now both to protect his boss Cummings and to carry on this smokescreen to get the public to overlook the statistics of how poorly the UK has prevented thousands of deaths. This Cummings episode has all the hallmarks of a Cummings tactical manoeuvre, Boris and Cummings locked in a circle of protecting each other and both becoming untouchable.

Fortunately there are some Tories with a tiny bit of moral and metal who hopefully will continue to push the issue.

Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 2:04pm


Well, I'm not here to answer to his actions. He has given his statement and we can all make our own decisions.

I will ask if anyone here has had relatives who have had Covid 19 symptoms. ? My daughter and most of her school staff did, back in February/early March. The school had taken a group of children to Italy early in February, and one of the parents had been diagnosed with Covid 19. My daughter was extremely poorly as was her partner. Their 4 yrs old daughter was looked after by her grandfather because her parents couldn't do anything physical or care for her. This was before the lockdown was introduced.
Had the child have been school age, she could have attended school,, like many children have over this period.

So, unless we've been in a similar situation, which just about applies to anything trauma related, we are not privy to stand in judgement .
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 3:11pm

Cummings and his wife only had symptons of CV, and he was not incapacitated.
He is trying to make out he and his wife were going to die or in danger of attacks, and I'm afraid, it looks like he is just laying it on a bit thick to me, and many others.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 3:26pm

Originally Posted by granny
So, unless we've been in a similar situation, which just about applies to anything trauma related, we are not privy to stand in judgement .


No, these are public servants being employed by us, we have every right to judge if our employees' actions are appropriate or not.

They set the lockdown laws and Cummings did not follow the law.

If nothing else, the fact that the cover story changed three times made it indefensible.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 3:41pm

Originally Posted by granny

Well, I'm not here to answer to his actions. He has given his statement and we can all make our own decisions.

I will ask if anyone here has had relatives who have had Covid 19 symptoms. ? My daughter and most of her school staff did, back in February/early March. The school had taken a group of children to Italy early in February, and one of the parents had been diagnosed with Covid 19. My daughter was extremely poorly as was her partner. Their 4 yrs old daughter was looked after by her grandfather because her parents couldn't do anything physical or care for her. This was before the lockdown was introduced.
Had the child have been school age, she could have attended school,, like many children have over this period.

So, unless we've been in a similar situation, which just about applies to anything trauma related, we are not privy to stand in judgement .


Yes granny my son in law, not only did he have symptoms he had it,wasn't tested initially no testing kits facilities ( but guess who got tested in Aberdeen a week later HRH and Boris,he couldn't get through on 111 when he got home very poorly returned to work six weeks later and had to be tested as he works off shore, still tested positive, would have been impossible for him to swan off to look after his family wouldn't it? but then we live in the real world.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 5:38pm



Very sorry to hear about your son in law Casper. So I assume he had the symptoms and travelled home. Then travelled back to work in Aberdeen , still carrying the virus ?

Does he have any small children he had to look after ?

Anyway, I'm done with this, it's all over the news, all over the press, all over social media.. like a pack of hounds after a fox.

I would like to know exactly a) what will be achieved if DC resigns or is sacked, and b) who will be the next one put through the mincer by the all so condemning public. Oh yes, Prince Andrew's turn again soon , or maybe Prince Charles because he got tested before others.


Let's be honest, the worst has only just begun. Good luck to one and all.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 5:42pm

Originally Posted by granny


Very sorry to hear about your son in law Casper. So I assume he had the symptoms and travelled home. Then travelled back to work in Aberdeen , still carrying the virus ?

Does he have any small children he had to look after ?

Anyway, I'm done with this, it's all over the news, all over the press, all over social media.. like a pack of hounds after a fox.

I would like to know exactly a) what will be achieved if DC resigns or is sacked, and b) who will be the next one put through the mincer by the all so condemning public. Oh yes, Prince Andrew's turn again soon , or maybe Prince Charles because he got tested before others.


Let's be honest, the worst has only just begun. Good luck to one and all.

Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 5:53pm

Yes granny he was sent home by taxi, and when he went back was told not to use public transport, hire a car, taxi etc, he also paid for a flat for 21/2 weeks so as to isolate from his family, but that's by the bye, he followed the regulations, perhaps Dominic Goings could have hired a taxi or some other form of transport to take his family a much safer option wouldn't you agree, especially if he had doubts about his fitness to drive safely, anyway as you say this has been done to death now, only need to wait for the verdict. xxx
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 6:21pm

The press and Parliament will not let this go. Just sack him, then we can all move on smile
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 26th May 2020 7:18pm

Yes I think everyone's let off steam and really we need to get back to the virus itself and getting the economy going again, that's the most important thing , I want to get back to near normality again. I miss my grandkids terribly , I see them doing the social distancing but the little one is only two and toddles towards me where I have to shush her away , it's so horrible.
Dominicgate will sort itself out one way or another whatever any if us think, let's move on eh...
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 27th May 2020 4:08pm

Sorry to keep going on about DC but this made me laugh. laugh

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Longnails

Re: Coronavirus - 28th May 2020 9:24pm

Hi mikeeb, this made me smile too; I think we all need a little humour right now!
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 29th May 2020 6:38am

This tells me one thing, Dominic Cummings is pulling the strings at No 10, and Boris is the puppet! or should that be Muppet?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th May 2020 10:56am

It looks like SAGE is being over ruled for political reasons, scientists say this is not the right time to ease lock down, we have an unelected tail wagging the dog, what is the use of a committee that can be over ruled at anytime ? apparently New Brighton had one of its busiest times yet, lets hope this hasn't lit the fuse for phase 2, the governments blase nod nod wink wink approach has encouraged this to happen, I wonder who they will blame?
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 30th May 2020 12:20pm

I cannot see another huge rise in deaths and suspect we are over the worst of this.
The only reason for the lockdown was not to overwhelm the NHS.
Although denied, herd immunity seems like the ultimate goal to put the brakes on this virus.
Time to end all lockdown rules.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th May 2020 3:42pm

Still 2000 recorded new cases a day, with a 13% mortality rate that's going to retain 260 deaths a day for at least the coming two weeks.

If you remove lockdown you will incapacitate the country, food supplies would be threatened.

Wirral has got bad statistics, saw figures the other day that Wirral hospital deaths were roughly half of Merseyside's despite us having less than a quarter of the population.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th May 2020 5:55pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Still 2000 recorded new cases a day, with a 13% mortality rate that's going to retain 260 deaths a day for at least the coming two weeks.

If you remove lockdown you will incapacitate the country, food supplies would be threatened.

Wirral has got bad statistics, saw figures the other day that Wirral hospital deaths were roughly half of Merseyside's despite us having less than a quarter of the population.


If we go back to arrival of those buses that brought the people for isolation, I wonder how many cases we had then and did they escalate around that time, as there were many reports of hospital staff being used in the isolation unit and across the hospital, sending people all the way up here to isolate doesnt make much sense other than to allow more places to be made available for those down south because they knew what was coming, the more I read about this government the more I worry we are being taken for suckers big time, the ever changing faces of those making government announcements, maybe because those that should be there can't face the cameras whilst continually lying.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 30th May 2020 7:56pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
I cannot see another huge rise in deaths and suspect we are over the worst of this.
The only reason for the lockdown was not to overwhelm the NHS.
Although denied, herd immunity seems like the ultimate goal to put the brakes on this virus.
Time to end all lockdown rules.


The Trust where I work is operating at a much lower capacity than normal, because patients and staff must be kept further apart to mitigate a virus that is still at large. Capacity will not magically return to normal if the Government announces an end to the lockdown, and there's no guarantee that this virus will simply disappear. A point brought up in operational meetings regarded the need to prepare for additional surges in September, and throughout the winter months. The Government, treating it as a economic matter rather than a health crisis, has done very little to ensure that we will not be overwhelmed by these surges.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 31st May 2020 11:12am



It's germ warfare, and they all know it is ! We could be isolated for decades.. who want's that ?

IMO, if the US want war, and the infrastructure world wide is too intricate and congested in cities around the world, and bombing civilians is a war crime, and there are too many people on the planet... and increasing, creating food shortages etc. how else do you get rid and where is the best place to begin ? The one with the biggest population, of course, and the one that is becoming more powerful than the US.

Note Trump now wants G7 to include more countries like Russia, Australia, South Korea, obviously to create a perfect wall against China. Last year Russia were the evil doers, this year it's China. Ask how this all changes so quickly ?

I still believe the way Salisbury was handled, reported, and terminated, with expulsion of Russian diplomats , Europe and world wide in a matter of days , was collusion with CIA !
All very 'shut up' now isn't it, but Dominic Cummings trip to Durham will go on for years. Bizarre !
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st May 2020 12:37pm

Very interesting granny, we let two Russian GRU agents who were identified as the assassins, go free with half hearted attempts at retaliation, and we let a government chief adviser go free, even your old mate Jezza eventually agreed it was the Russians, things in common,the British economy is the ultimate priority above all, forget justice common decency, British values and the other list of clap trap we are being constantly fed, they would sell their grannies (Oop's) for a few shillings.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st May 2020 6:45pm

Originally Posted by casper
If we go back to arrival of those buses that brought the people for isolation, I wonder how many cases we had then and did they escalate around that time, as there were many reports of hospital staff being used in the isolation unit and across the hospital.

No, the staff used inside the isolation centre did not go into the rest of the hospital. Protocol was used and maintained about how things transferred across the isolation zone.

Originally Posted by casper
two Russian GRU agents who were identified as the assassins

There was no evidence, any country could have done it in an attempt to stir things up, in particular America was actively looking to stir up anti-Russian feelings at the time, certain Eastern interests had a reason in doing similar.
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Jun 2020 6:41am

I want to know more about this daily testing, the ones in charge are slapping themselves on the back that they have reached their target of testing 200,000, big deal! lets test everyone in the country, ok its going to take around 15 years to do it but test us all?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Jun 2020 8:06am

The track and trace is going to be called the NHS Track & Trace despite it having nothing to do with the NHS. It should have been called the DOHSC Track and Trace but might have been worried it would be abbreviated to DOH.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Jun 2020 12:22pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The track and trace is going to be called the NHS Track & Trace despite it having nothing to do with the NHS.

But ultimately it is helping the NHS. I think the DHSC should just lose that title and just be adsorded into the NHS.
I know the NHS needs accountability, but this many dept's (29) are just jobs for the boys, in my eyes. wink
I'd like to know how much is needed to fund all these agencies.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Jun 2020 4:45pm

Liverpool Echo scariest time ..... I am beyond scared by this coronavirus scariness .... Any time I go for essential shopping , social distancing is barely being adhered too .... 3 times in 1 week I have had to snarl / raise my voice and go a little primal at somebody with no idea as to the magnitude of this !!! God help us all
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Jun 2020 9:13am

It appears funny that they were only aware of this in the afternoon, unless the worker phoned in and said he was tested positive, I can't imagine anyone taking ill with this without showing the earlier symptoms, I know people can have it and show no symptoms, but then they wouldn't be aware to report it, sounds like the usual Echo sensationalism attempt, as it stands without further detail many could have been infected and need to be tracked and tested, but we know that is impossible because the system is not ready enough and the testing is a shambles, a sugar coated dummy to lull us into a false sense of security.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Jun 2020 10:26am



The track and trace won't work, whichever way we look at it. Note congestion at Brighton beach, Dorset coast at the weekend. Protests through London , Manchester, Glasgow and other places in support of this US guy killed., another one in Hyde Park today. No way will it work, and they shouldn't bother wasting anymore money on it, when the young people have no interest .
The people who are careful and follow the guidelines will be doing all they can, but they won't be the ones needing track and trace so much , or the ones who will raise the infection numbers again.

If the infection rate does not go up to any great degree, they'd better start looking for reasons why not, and looking elsewhere for answers.
Posted By: lincle

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Jun 2020 7:58pm

Social distancing gone out of the window. Two weeks ago I posted about an incident that occured in Aldi Bidston Moss when a relative asked another female customer to adhere to the rules & got a mouthful of abuse from that woman which resulted in the Manager threatening to throw both of them out ! A witness reported it on FB & my relative got lots of positive feed from it. The manager was reported to Aldi head office who promised to investigate & report back ,needless to say they didnt & nothing has changed in the store to rectify the matter.A bit of understanding & politeness is needed in this dreadful time
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Jun 2020 8:09pm

Well after all those protest marches today yes I would say social distancing has gone!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Jun 2020 10:01pm

We overtook Italy just over a week ago and we have now overtaken Spain for the highest proportion of deaths, only Belgium is currently worse than us (ignoring micro-nations).

Our figures are not dropping like other countries managed to achieve (including Belgium). Our leadership has failed where most other leaders succeeded.

Government had a new tactic the other day, 111 deaths reported but they amended that figure the day after to somewhere around 500 so it won't appear in the stats. That is three days on the run with much higher than expected figures for deaths.

Spain and Italy are expected to have second waves starting before the beginning of August, ours will be after, assuming we have got it under some sort of control by then.

If Chile doesn't react quickly there is going to be a disaster there possibly worse than any other country.

In the meantime our Government proudly announces UK scientific discoveries that had already been declared by other countries weeks ago and makes disparaging remarks about people who think schools should not be restarting yet.

The Government are right, schools should be open again by now because by now the Government should have brought the disease under control - but they failed miserably mostly through their initial bravado and their lack of backbone ever since, bulldogs turning into mice.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Jun 2020 9:10am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
We overtook Italy just over a week ago and we have now overtaken Spain for the highest proportion of deaths, only Belgium is currently worse than us (ignoring micro-nations).

Our figures are not dropping like other countries managed to achieve (including Belgium). Our leadership has failed where most other leaders succeeded.

Government had a new tactic the other day, 111 deaths reported but they amended that figure the day after to somewhere around 500 so it won't appear in the stats. That is three days on the run with much higher than expected figures for deaths.

Spain and Italy are expected to have second waves starting before the beginning of August, ours will be after, assuming we have got it under some sort of control by then.

If Chile doesn't react quickly there is going to be a disaster there possibly worse than any other country.

In the meantime our Government proudly announces UK scientific discoveries that had already been declared by other countries weeks ago and makes disparaging remarks about people who think schools should not be restarting yet.

The Government are right, schools should be open again by now because by now the Government should have brought the disease under control - but they failed miserably mostly through their initial bravado and their lack of backbone ever since, bulldogs turning into mice.



Your being too kind DD, bulldogs! this lot have been a lot of things but never bulldogs,cowardly, undecided, dishonest, Johnson is out of his depth, best stick to fornicating,and wrecking restaurants, he lost it with Starmer yesterday.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Jun 2020 1:59pm

Originally Posted by DD
We overtook Italy just over a week ago and we have now overtaken Spain for the highest proportion of deaths, only Belgium is currently worse than us (ignoring micro-nations).

Spain and Italy death rates are comparable to ours.
Italy at 5.5%.
Spain and UK at 5.8%.
Belgium is 8.2%.
The US get a lot of stick but they are only 3.3%.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Jun 2020 8:35pm

Liverpool Echo The lack of social distancing here is just a fraction of what the heck is going on this very day .... Oh my !!! The statistics will probably be through the roof , I hope my fears are wrong ; that of the virus being a hybrid of hiv/flu (inhalable aids) made by an evil bunch to kill a bunch of simpletons and oblivious !!!

Beam me up
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Jun 2020 10:14pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by DD
We overtook Italy just over a week ago and we have now overtaken Spain for the highest proportion of deaths, only Belgium is currently worse than us (ignoring micro-nations).

Spain and Italy death rates are comparable to ours.
Italy at 5.5%.
Spain and UK at 5.8%.
Belgium is 8.2%.
The US get a lot of stick but they are only 3.3%.


Yes, but ours is rising at a far faster rate than theirs, we have overtaken them and still carrying on. Today we are at 5.9% and Spain is still at 5.8% and will be for some time, maybe weeks, In two or three days time we will be at 6% etc. Likewise Belgium is now rising far slower than us we are catching them up.

That is 0.033% for all of America, the worst state is New York at 0.16%. The Coronavirus prevention in the states has mostly been run by individual states, not central Government, even though central Government tried to seize control of all medical equipment.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Jun 2020 10:23pm

Originally Posted by GaryFromWirral
Liverpool Echo The lack of social distancing here is just a fraction of what the heck is going on this very day .... Oh my !!! The statistics will probably be through the roof , I hope my fears are wrong ; that of the virus being a hybrid of hiv/flu (inhalable aids) made by an evil bunch to kill a bunch of simpletons and oblivious !!!

Beam me up


CV has very little in common with HIV, they attack different parts of the body in different ways. CV attacks certain tissue linings, HIV attacks the immune system. They are communicated in completely different ways, HIV has to enter the blood system, CV doesn't.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 9:24am

Face masks to be made mandatory on public transport from the 15th June, this despite being told previously that they offer no protection and are of little benefit, mixed messages again, but having said that this is just a feel good exercise to encourage people to get out and about and back to work, the new D Day if you will no doubt Boris will appear with the let's get it done slogan, as he urges the troops forward from behind the barricade.

My own opinion is masks should have been introduced months ago, both on transport and in shops if only to give people a visual reminder that all is not well, shops more so, most systems in supermarkets are shambolic, queue to enter then a free for all once in, must say the exception is the Coop in Wallasey Village, very well run and thought out, a pleasure to visit.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 9:55am


How many supermarkets have you been in over the last 3 months ? How many buses , how many trains have you travelled on ?

It doesn't matter what the next move is to you Casper, because you won't be happy. We should maybe asking the people who are out in the work force, how they are feeling. If it's good or bad ?

If you remember, face masks were not available from anywhere, even before lock down, due to WORLDWIDE demand ! Neither was hand gel, panic buying in the shops. Have you forgotten all of that ?

Had Government said people should wear them during 'lockdown' what would you think the response would have been ? Some people made their own, many have not and would not plus, there was no evidence that the paper masks produced were of any protection at all and should have been binned after 4 hours usage .
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 11:00am

Originally Posted by granny

How many supermarkets have you been in over the last 3 months ? How many buses , how many trains have you travelled on ?

It doesn't matter what the next move is to you Casper, because you won't be happy. We should maybe asking the people who are out in the work force, how they are feeling. If it's good or bad ?

If you remember, face masks were not available from anywhere, even before lock down, due to WORLDWIDE demand ! Neither was hand gel, panic buying in the shops. Have you forgotten all of that ?

Had Government said people should wear them during 'lockdown' what would you think the response would have been ? Some people made their own, many have not and would not plus, there was no evidence that the paper masks produced were of any protection at all and should have been binned after 4 hours usage .


In answer granny, I have been in 4 different supermarkets, I have not travelled on any public transport, does that exclude me from having a point of view? my son and daughter have both been in work from day one, so yes I am aware.

The medical grade masks were in short supply, low grade dust masks were available ( they are advising the use of any face covering now), many small businesses manufactured quantities of stuff that was rejected or ignored by our wonderful government, who preferred to purchase equally useless stuff from abroad but could still be used by the general public as good as the hanky or scarf that they recommend, many countries hand them out free ( maybe because they are more concerned about the population)

Had the government said people should wear them during lockdown what would I think? I would have thought that here is a government doing its best to protect the population( yes even a Tory led one) even better if they had enforced that lockdown, but that was never the intention.

Threats of fines or people being refused access to public transport how will that work? who will enforce it? will bus driver's, underground staff be expected to deal with it ( with the likely hood of violent incidents)? our much depleted police force can't deal with local crime and local infringements of the "rules" which they say can't be legally enforced in most cases, whose was that quote it must have been written on the back of a cigarette packet?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 12:12pm


If the Government had said everyone should wear them, where would the supplies have come from ? There weren't any to be had at that point. Then there was 10 weeks of lockdown, when supplies were limited . So access to masks were not much available and as we know, the prices went up to astronomical levels.

The Government never said we should NOT wear masks. If people insist of Government dictating every rule in the book for every person in this country, then I think we are seeing the end of being able to 'think for our selves' .

The guidance was given by an authority of numerous people, but in all honesty, every Government is being criticized for their actions and advice in Europe for varying reasons, so it appears that none of them got it right. Well, that would be according to our media that basically cause rifts in every social issue.

Did you wear a mask when you were shopping ? I haven't and still don't but that's MY decision, and thank goodness I can still make my own decision. I wash hands and face when I get home, and keep everything cleaned.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 12:46pm

Originally Posted by granny

If the Government had said everyone should wear them, where would the supplies have come from ? There weren't any to be had at that point. Then there was 10 weeks of lockdown, when supplies were limited . So access to masks were not much available and as we know, the prices went up to astronomical levels.

The Government never said we should NOT wear masks. If people insist of Government dictating every rule in the book for every person in this country, then I think we are seeing the end of being able to 'think for our selves' .

The guidance was given by an authority of numerous people, but in all honesty, every Government is being criticized for their actions and advice in Europe for varying reasons, so it appears that none of them got it right. Well, that would be according to our media that basically cause rifts in every social issue.

Did you wear a mask when you were shopping ? I haven't and still don't but that's MY decision, and thank goodness I can still make my own decision. I wash hands and face when I get home, and keep everything cleaned.


Well we have seen the consequences of people being able to "think" for themselves over the past week, as to advice from the government they didn't say don't wear them, but they did say they are of no benefit so actively discouraging people from doing so, yes you are right most governments didn't get it right, but they followed advice and guidelines for all sources, unlike GB hence the difference in the death tolls,what rating are we now? 3rd highest in the world and still rising.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 1:07pm

I notice the term used is 'face covering' not 'mask'. Scarf, snood etc could be used, or homemade mask, so there would not be huge pressure on supplies intended for key workers. Anything over the nose and mouth will impede progress of dangerous droplets emitted by the wearer, though it will not give much protection to the wearer. However, if enough people wore a face covering, there would be an overall benefit. I haven't worn one yet as I don't have to work or use public transport and I haven't yet been anywhere where I felt too crowded. I have a washable one ready, just in case, and could make more if I needed to.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 1:13pm


So over the last week, yes, people have been ridiculous and mainly the young who have flaunted the advice anyway on many occasions. Overall the general public have followed guidelines that were put in place, and they were not laws , so we made our own judgements .

However the only answer to that not happening would have been to keep us in lockdown. Rules for fines being brought in is a positive , definite step by government, but it appears you are not in agreement of that , due to you thinking it is not possible . So what do you suggest should be the way forward, Casper ?
Schools kept closed, no public transport, no shops opening, what ?

This virus is going to be about for a long time, IMO, the country has to move forward somehow.

My daughter is back in school, her little one is back in nursery, in the hardest hit area of UK. They are all happy to be back. Everything has been put in place with an army of cleaners, she is teaching outside in marquees that have been erected .

It all costs a fortune, but it's better than being locked up with no outlook on our future.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 3:12pm

The problem is, we were late going in and making any meaningful progress and we are early coming out, other's followed the advice and the experiences of many countries at an early stage to enable a progress except us, of course the country has to move forward and nowhere have I said other wise, but, and I am in no means on my own in thinking that this is too early, only time will tell, it was clearly, either by design or just stupidity to announce an easing of restrictions on a holiday and in the midst of a period of extremely good weather, what did they think would happen? Grant Shapps tells us today the Transport Police will deal with any problems on the railways, that only leaves the buses and trams then, and as I stated earlier the police are unsure about the powers they have or who they can arrest and charge,I really hope you are right granny, because its not the government that will pay the ultimate price.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 4:11pm

Originally Posted by granny
every Government is being criticized for their actions and advice in Europe for varying reasons, so it appears that none of them got it right

Correct. No matter what our Government does, (or any other government for that matter,) they will not stop being criticised. This is a novel situation that we have faced and some decisions are expected to be wrong, but we can still deal with it.

If the country cannot continue economically during a full lockdown, there will be more deaths unrelated to CV than before.
There is too much focus on CV infections and deaths, and ingoring any stats of other deaths or illnesses, or at least putting it on the backburner anyway. I mean peoples Chemotherapy treatment was being held back, now that is not right.

If this was a social experiment by world governments, they have f**ked it up. laugh
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 5:16pm

Another 357 deaths (minimum), r number in the Northwest is above one, but we'll go ahead and reduce lockdown.

@mikeeb The UK performance has been appalling compared to other countries, the UK Government has consistently done its own thing rather than listen to experience. It was novel in China, it was novel in Italy, it was no longer novel situation when it hit the UK.

There is absolutely no reason why Chemotherapy has been stopped, that is yet another thing they are doing wrong.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 5:52pm

I think we'll be getting put back into lockdown, all those beach scenes , New Brighton , Formby didn't help I expect. God I'm so wishing for a vaccine for this awful virus or to burn itself out and just get lost.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 8:24pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


There is absolutely no reason why Chemotherapy has been stopped, that is yet another thing they are doing wrong.



Considering chemotherapy kills off any immunity to disease and infections, maybe that is a good enough reason . Just a thought. There are also various ways in which to administer chemotherapy for different cancers, and for those hospitalised on a drip 24/7 for a week, then I would have thought it a dangerous place to put anyone suffering from cancer.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Jun 2020 8:37pm

Originally Posted by cools
I think we'll be getting put back into lockdown, all those beach scenes , New Brighton , Formby didn't help I expect. God I'm so wishing for a vaccine for this awful virus or to burn itself out and just get lost.


I do think that England, Scotland and Wales should have followed the same paths at the same time . For those who no longer listen to the news , they must think the same rules apply to the whole of the UK or else they are just putting two fingers up to institution, Government and authorities.. fairly typical of the anarchists in society that we have now.

The public are as much to blame as anyone, with unnecessary protests etc. Even Corbyn's brother was arrested twice in a fortnight at anti- lockdown protests in May.

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2020...4cN3VALBHgPk2ekyWymWz4qEbm6mSRsTQA_f33MU

Police in the Brecon Beacons turned away more than 1,000 cars last weekend as tourists from as far away as London and the Midlands flocked to beauty spots despite lockdown restrictions.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 4:33am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


There is absolutely no reason why Chemotherapy has been stopped, that is yet another thing they are doing wrong.



Considering chemotherapy kills off any immunity to disease and infections, maybe that is a good enough reason . Just a thought. There are also various ways in which to administer chemotherapy for different cancers, and for those hospitalised on a drip 24/7 for a week, then I would have thought it a dangerous place to put anyone suffering from cancer.


If they had gone ahead with the NHS Nightingales it wouldn't have been a problem. We've used isolation hospitals many times in the past.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 4:37am

Originally Posted by granny
I do think that England, Scotland and Wales should have followed the same paths at the same time.


Quite the opposite, the lockdown levels should have been more localised, we are currently lifting lockdown across the whole of England based on average figures when the Northwest has an r number of greater than one. That is putting us in the Northwest at higher risk and increaing the chance of it creating second wave in other parts of the country where the r number has dropped.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 7:43am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


There is absolutely no reason why Chemotherapy has been stopped, that is yet another thing they are doing wrong.



Considering chemotherapy kills off any immunity to disease and infections, maybe that is a good enough reason . Just a thought. There are also various ways in which to administer chemotherapy for different cancers, and for those hospitalised on a drip 24/7 for a week, then I would have thought it a dangerous place to put anyone suffering from cancer.


If they had gone ahead with the NHS Nightingales it wouldn't have been a problem. We've used isolation hospitals many times in the past.


Nonsense, DD.

No point in starting chemo, if they needed radiotherapy too, which most do .The two go hand in hand . Have you seen the radiotherapy waiting rooms at Clatterbridge ?

Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 8:04am



I'm at a loss as to why . for example , Russia more or less followed the same guidelines as we have , virtually the same timetable as we have.

Russia has suffered 449,834 covid 19 cases, with 5,528 deaths

UK has suffered 283,311 covid 19 cases with 40,261 deaths.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 9:05am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by cools
I think we'll be getting put back into lockdown, all those beach scenes , New Brighton , Formby didn't help I expect. God I'm so wishing for a vaccine for this awful virus or to burn itself out and just get lost.


I do think that England, Scotland and Wales should have followed the same paths at the same time . For those who no longer listen to the news , they must think the same rules apply to the whole of the UK or else they are just putting two fingers up to institution, Government and authorities.. fairly typical of the anarchists in society that we have now.

The public are as much to blame as anyone, with unnecessary protests etc. Even Corbyn's brother was arrested twice in a fortnight at anti- lockdown protests in May.

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2020...4cN3VALBHgPk2ekyWymWz4qEbm6mSRsTQA_f33MU

Police in the Brecon Beacons turned away more than 1,000 cars last weekend as tourists from as far away as London and the Midlands flocked to beauty spots despite lockdown restrictions.


Yes you are right again granny, the public are as much to blame, that is a consequence of having a system with no controls in place plus information coming from government that paints a picture of things getting better and returning to normal, which in turn affects the way people think, putting two fingers up to institution authority and government, a government that has failed to get a grip on this crisis from day one but is now advocating a return to some normality, they have got it wrong up to now, so why should we believe them ?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 12:21pm

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by cools
I think we'll be getting put back into lockdown, all those beach scenes , New Brighton , Formby didn't help I expect. God I'm so wishing for a vaccine for this awful virus or to burn itself out and just get lost.


I do think that England, Scotland and Wales should have followed the same paths at the same time . For those who no longer listen to the news , they must think the same rules apply to the whole of the UK or else they are just putting two fingers up to institution, Government and authorities.. fairly typical of the anarchists in society that we have now.

The public are as much to blame as anyone, with unnecessary protests etc. Even Corbyn's brother was arrested twice in a fortnight at anti- lockdown protests in May.

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2020...4cN3VALBHgPk2ekyWymWz4qEbm6mSRsTQA_f33MU

Police in the Brecon Beacons turned away more than 1,000 cars last weekend as tourists from as far away as London and the Midlands flocked to beauty spots despite lockdown restrictions.


Yes you are right again granny, the public are as much to blame, that is a consequence of having a system with no controls in place plus information coming from government that paints a picture of things getting better and returning to normal, which in turn affects the way people think, putting two fingers up to institution authority and government, a government that has failed to get a grip on this crisis from day one but is now advocating a return to some normality, they have got it wrong up to now, so why should we believe them ?


Clearly you are giving the public the backing . Well done . You still haven't come up with any suggestions as to what you consider to have been the best form of attack or defence against this virus.

Today: WHO have changed their guidance, from saying face masks would encourage a false sense of security, depriving medics of much needed PPE. to saying new evidence has emerged and face coverings should be worn by the general public and anyone over 60yrs with underlying medical issues should wear medical grade masks !

Obviously WHO is a waste of space, and maybe Trump has got it right.

I am pleased you are backing the 'Black Lives Matter' protests today , it's a pretty important message to get out don't you think , despite the health risks and defiance of the warnings given ?

Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 1:11pm

Surely theirs a better way to protest than crowding together in their thousands at this time, during a pandemic
We'll never get rid of this damn virus with actions like this. NHS will get swamped , how much is spreading around again now...
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 2:30pm

[

Today: WHO have changed their guidance, from saying face masks would encourage a false sense of security, depriving medics of much needed PPE. to saying new evidence has emerged and face coverings should be worn by the general public and anyone over 60yrs with underlying medical issues should wear medical grade masks !

Obviously WHO is a waste of space, and maybe Trump has got it right.

I am pleased you are backing the 'Black Lives Matter' protests today , it's a pretty important message to get out don't you think , despite the health risks and defiance of the warnings given ?

[/quote]

You're being a very naughty granny again, where did I mention I was supporting/ attending the black lives matter protest? maybe you have misunderstood my post, the gist being if you give people free range to decide which part of the information or instruction they decide to follow they will interpret it in their own manner ie; which ever version suits them best, we have groups that are saying its all about state control it's a cull on the population, blah blah blah, groups getting together a bit of weed a smell of a beer can and the fuse is lit, anyway to put things plain and simple no I do not support gatherings, yes I do support the wearing of face coverings always have, if fact anything that will help ease this awful virus even by a small % as apparently now I have become high risk because of diabetes, another afterthought.

Why is WHO a waste of space because they changed their minds? if that's the case what does that make this government?
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 3:03pm

Originally Posted by granny
No point in starting chemo, if they needed radiotherapy too, which most do .The two go hand in hand . Have you seen the radiotherapy waiting rooms at Clatterbridge ?

I have seen the radiotherapy waiting rooms in Clatterbridge every day for 6 weeks (Mon to Fri) and they could easily be halved, if not more, with planning. Virtually every patient had a companion or 2 with them. Now my brothers radiotherapy has finished he is taking chemo in tablet form and everytime we go up Clatterbridge vurtually everyones companion has stayed in the car, so it is easy to limit the number of people in there.

What I don't like is that other illnesses have been put on the back burner or just forgotten about. People couldn't even have a face to face with the doctor and were too scared to go the hospital, no doubt thinking it was a trivial illness but that could have easily turned out worse than thought.

I reckon most of us have had this virus and not even known about it and believe it is the right time to ease the lockdown. If we didn't, this virus will never go away.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 4:19pm

Originally Posted by granny
Nonsense, DD.

No point in starting chemo, if they needed radiotherapy too, which most do .The two go hand in hand . Have you seen the radiotherapy waiting rooms at Clatterbridge ?


You must have known that was a generalism that was going to come back and bite you.

Many people are given the choice of radiotherapy, chemotherapy and surgery or whatever combination suits. Chemotherapy can delay/slow the cancer growth regardless of other treatments.

Colon cancer is hardly ever treated with radiotherapy but is treated with chemo. Most gastrointestinal cancers are treated more with chemo than radio apart from the mouth and throat.

Ovarian cancel is also rarely treated with radio but often treated with chemo.

Basically the deeper inside the body, the less chance radiotherapy is used.

Then there is the issue of those that are either waiting for chemotherapy or had already started.

One minute they are telling you that every day matters, the next many people have been thrown under the bus for months on end.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 5:46pm

As I said previously every treatment for cancer can be different .

However, when I had cancer, the radiotherapy rooms worked from approx. 8.30 am to 6pm daily with patients being seen approx. every 10 to 15 minutes. 5 Radiotherapy units and there might have been more.
I attended every day for 5 weeks, a week either side for chemo and another week for morphine which cannot be prescribed at home.

So if they had taken on new cancer patients for treatment, I can't see that additional treatment as part of the cure could have been administered had the patients been placed in Nightingale units, as you suggested.

Without the needed radiotherapy, the chemo would have been useless, and not only that many people would have had to make their own way by public transport for the radiotherapy and subjected themselves to other infections due to the lack of immunity, which is not only whilst the treatment lasts but can continue for months afterwards.

Brain tumours, breast cancer, bowel cancer, lung cancer there are many types of cancer which do require chemo and radioT.
Then there is the reaction of chemo. Imagine having that and at the same time trying to stave off Covid 19.

This is what annoys me, when people make outlandish claims because it backs up their own personal opinion and anti institutional ideals., without knowing what actually goes on .

Considering those doctors and consultants are so specialist in their area, committed and caring, do you really think they would have not given the best insight of the best course of action to take in a bad situation ?

Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 6:40pm

Originally Posted by granny
and not only that many people would have had to make their own way by public transport for the radiotherapy and subjected themselves to other infections due to the lack of immunity

That is not quite true granny.
My brother was offered to be taken up and back home by an ambulance but was told he would have to wait around until it arrived and also wait to be taken back after the treatment, that is why I took him every day.

Anyway granny, hope you recovered well and are free of cancer. happy
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 9:42pm

Just because some cases ideally need radiotherapy is no reason to shut the services down for others that don't.

And the same goes for closing down all elective surgery as well, by the time cancer requires non-elective treatment the patient's prospects are greatly diminished.

Basically the message is you aren't going to receive treatment until we are certain you are going to die very soon regardless of what it does for your longer term prospects. Hardly hippocratic oath material is it?

Arrow park managed to create a lot of extra space for the coach loads of isolators yet they can't find extra space for patients?.

We had the ridiculous situation of a lot of medical personnel sitting around in empty departments twiddling their thumbs whilst peoples lives were being foreshortened through lack of treatment.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 9:45pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by granny
and not only that many people would have had to make their own way by public transport for the radiotherapy and subjected themselves to other infections due to the lack of immunity

That is not quite true granny.
My brother was offered to be taken up and back home by an ambulance but was told he would have to wait around until it arrived and also wait to be taken back after the treatment, that is why I took him every day.

Anyway granny, hope you recovered well and are free of cancer. happy


I understand that ambulances picked up and dropped off on a daily basis, and it was usually hanging around all day to be taken home for those people, but would it have been the same in lockdown ? There are also the patients coming to Liverpool from the Isle of Man with someone to care for them over a 6 week period. Where would they stay during lockdown with no transport ? The young woman from Wales with a brain tumour to Clatterbridge , with her husband. Where would he have stayed during lockdown ? The man from Hull with one leg who had to go to Addenbrooks in Cambridgeshire for a couple of weeks. His wife takes him but where would she stay during lockdown ? All these cases are known to me, and as much as I appreciate how lucky we are having Clatterbridge on the doorstep, that is not the case for many patients nationwide. So I can see why taking on new cancer patients could have cause immense problems for the NHS.
Being hospitalised with no visitors to bring a bit of cash to get a newspaper , a packet of sweets, a bunch of grapes a bottle of juice , no clean clothes or night wear to change into.

When your brother had radiotherapy, for so many weeks, there would also have been the patients in the wards who also had a daily dose. How would the sterilisation have taken place with people coming in from outside every 15 minutes mingling with those on chemo from the wards ?

So many important points to be considered.

Thanks for wishes Mikeeb, , and yes, fighting fit , much to everyone's annoyance laugh I would like to say that without our wonderful Clatterbridge, things could have been different.
I hope your brother is on full recovery too, Mikeeb.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Jun 2020 10:24pm

Originally Posted by cools
Surely theirs a better way to protest than crowding together in their thousands at this time, during a pandemic
We'll never get rid of this damn virus with actions like this. NHS will get swamped , how much is spreading around again now...


You would think so. Wrong time wrong place for all of them. Right across Europe, including Germany ,Italy, Spain.. despite restrictions and pleas from all Governments. Black lives matter but so does everyone else at the moment.
An absolute travesty for the doctors and nurses who have flogged themselves into the ground, and should they be faced with another onslaught I can see some giving up.

One minute these same people are applauding the NHS and carers , next they are throwing it all back in their faces. That applies to all the countries where protests have taken place.

Casper would have been there in Manchester , given the chance, but he knew the rules. Well, I think he does, because he seems to think the rules confuse the protestors, so I assume he must know and understand them very well, so why doesn't everyone else ? Hey , Casper ? XXX
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Jun 2020 9:07am

Originally Posted by granny
[quote=cools]Surely theirs a better way to protest than crowding together in their thousands at this time, during a pandemic
We'll never get rid of this damn virus with actions like this. NHS will get swamped , how much is spreading around again now...


You would think so. Wrong time wrong place for all of them. Right across Europe, including Germany ,Italy, Spain.. despite restrictions and pleas from all Governments. Black lives matter but so does everyone else at the moment.
An absolute travesty for the doctors and nurses who have flogged themselves into the ground, and should they be faced with another onslaught I can see some giving up.

One minute these same people are applauding the NHS and carers , next they are throwing it all back in their faces. That applies to all the countries where protests have taken place.

Casper would have been there in Manchester , given the chance, but he knew the rules. Well, I think he does, because he seems to think the rules confuse the protestors, so I assume he must know and understand them very well, so why doesn't everyone else ? Hey , Casper ? XXX [/

You nearly got it right granny, I didn't say the rules confuse the protesters, I said the rules are confusing to everyone, I'am with you a 100% on what you have posted above, however Johnsons knee jerk reaction on the possibility of thousands of job losses caused him to panic and ease lockdown too early and at the wrong time, as I have said before its about how people perceive things on the information and knowledge they have, a nice sunny week and being told that restrictions are being eased led to a false sense of security people openly out and about enjoying themselves and look nothings happened its all okay, again its about perception, it may be something to do with age, education with social standing or any number of things, older people are more conditioned and receptive to accepting and obeying rules and common decency, because we come from a time when that was the norm, the young are influenced by social media and soak up the crap posted on there like a sponge, anyhow I am happy to be a silly old fart, just go to the shops when I need to, observe the basics see family in garden when weather allows and a walk and to be thankful for what we have. xxx oldman
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Jun 2020 10:10am



Bravo ,Casper. I'll give you a wave from my garden.

I'm not with you on the idea of false security being the culprit, in my opinion they don't give two shits about anyone other than having a good time. A party in Kirkby Cutt woods with a few hundred (according to the media) people and nothing to do with 'Black lives Matter'. All out to find their next supply and blow their minds. That's the reality, it's the drugs that drive and the drugs that dictate.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Jun 2020 10:17am

What about the the NHS staff of BAME , did their lives matter when they died in the fight against covid-19 , apparently not ! The families of these protesters must be so worried when they come home , especially if you in the vulnerable group.
Disgusting scenes of vandalism on cenetaph etc.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Jun 2020 1:56pm

Originally Posted by granny
Thanks for wishes Mikeeb, , and yes, fighting fit , much to everyone's annoyance laugh I would like to say that without our wonderful Clatterbridge, things could have been different.
I hope your brother is on full recovery too, Mikeeb

Yes, Clatterbridge and the Walton Centre are amazing and we are so lucky they are close to us.
Thanks Granny, my bro is doing well. He took his last chemo last month and due a brain scan end of this month. pray
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Jun 2020 10:42pm



Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by granny
Thanks for wishes Mikeeb, , and yes, fighting fit , much to everyone's annoyance laugh I would like to say that without our wonderful Clatterbridge, things could have been different.
I hope your brother is on full recovery too, Mikeeb

Yes, Clatterbridge and the Walton Centre are amazing and we are so lucky they are close to us.
Thanks Granny, my bro is doing well. He took his last chemo last month and due a brain scan end of this month. pray



The very best of good wishes to your brother , Mikeeb.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Jun 2020 8:31am

Originally Posted by cools
What about the the NHS staff of BAME , did their lives matter when they died in the fight against covid-19 , apparently not ! The families of these protesters must be so worried when they come home , especially if you in the vulnerable group.
Disgusting scenes of vandalism on cenetaph etc.


Disgusting scenes indeed, the one on the cenotaph did his cause no good and only alienated any sympathy with what they are trying to achieve, Bristol fared no better, what would the country look like if we all decided to destroy or remove something we found offensive maybe a war memorial because some don't believe in war, it also highlighted the inability of the police to control the incident, a spokesman for the police said due to limited numbers they felt it was not safe to intervene, and this highlights what I have been saying throughout and the reason the lockdown wasn't enforced, the misnamed policing by consent aka we haven't the police numbers to control anything outside of London.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Jun 2020 12:35pm

Just been on the news. Cancer referrals are down 60% during the CV pandemic.
There was a lady on it saying it is unfair her life could be shortened because of this. I'd have to agree.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jun 2020 10:00am

See this damn corona virus has broken out again in China...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...onavirus-outbreaks-spark-unease-in-china

God hurry up with a vaccine, don't think social distancing is being taken notice of now especially the young ones, I've seen gangs of kids all strolling along together, all these protests in the midst of a pandemic!
I often wonder if we being watched by another planet who are more advanced than us, god they must think we a planet intent on destroying itself...
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jun 2020 12:02pm

That is an old article cools.
Here is one from yesterday believed to have been centred around another food market in Beijing.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/13/beijing-china-new-covid-19-cases-linked-to-food-market
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jun 2020 12:17pm

Thanks Mikeeb, should have gone to specsavers ha ..
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jun 2020 12:57pm

I do, that's why I noticed it, haha.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jun 2020 8:34pm

IDS back to his old ways, he wants to have the two metre rule scrapped. This would literally be exchanging lives for money.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jun 2020 10:48pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
IDS back to his old ways, he wants to have the two metre rule scrapped. This would literally be exchanging lives for money.


He's got a pub/eatery ! Would that make a difference ?
Posted By: Moonstar

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Jun 2020 8:19am

One might think so, but I couldn't possibly comment.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jun 2020 10:28am

As we know a number of "raves", have taken place the latest in Manchester, a spokesman for the police said after the last one at which a girl was raped and a man stabbed we will use robust enforcement in future, three shot in Manchester, the police were present but a spokesman said due to the numbers it was impossible to control, an open admission / invitation for raves to carry on and any other gathering of numbers because the police can't cope it's about time questions were asked of government of how they propose to deal with any serious breakdowns of law and order, or as usual will they just ignore it until it becomes critical, too little too late.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jun 2020 11:57am

The mass gatherings are on the up, and now they are talking of reducing the 2 metre social distancing rule, as many other countries are at 1 metre.
I cannot see a 2nd wave happening and think It is time to open everything and get back to normal.
Posted By: bert1

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jun 2020 2:12pm

Complacency = Deaths
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jun 2020 2:40pm

Big spike in Germany but due to meat processing plant as is that breakout in Anglesey chicken plant. In fact seems to be very prevalent all round the world in these sort of environments. And that was where it was apparently started in Wuhans wet market. It must be so hard to apply all the social distancing , sanitisation and everything in these hands on factories dealing with meats...
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jun 2020 3:55pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
The mass gatherings are on the up, and now they are talking of reducing the 2 metre social distancing rule, as many other countries are at 1 metre.
I cannot see a 2nd wave happening and think It is time to open everything and get back to normal.


That would be the quickest way to see a second wave, complacency as Bert said, everything is not normal, it just appears that this horrific virus has disappeared, it only needs one person in a crowd to light the fuse, a few thousand bag heads dancing around swapping spit and sharing drugs and the link is live, and as they are irresponsible and thoughtless morons they wont report any contacts.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jun 2020 4:11pm

After all these BLM protests, raves and other huge gatherings, we will see in a couple of weeks if there was a danger to do this. Let's look at them, as an unofficial test to see if it is safe.
They are reducing the social distancing to 1m, so the scientists think it is safer, well, safer than previously anyway.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jun 2020 6:02pm

Speaking of the BLM protests, according to the news the illegal gathering in Manchester was a spin off from a BLM protest as many from the protest moved on to join the party, a police spokesman said these parties are a usual happening in the Moss side community, really, well that's alright then Mr policeman, no wonder there was a reluctance to intervene, wouldn't want to upset anyone, I wonder what BLM has to say on the matter?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jun 2020 10:20pm

Frightened of upsetting people, but they might be sorry.

Despite our Covid 19 deaths reducing, UK still has the next greatest number per 1 million of the population at 628 followed by. Spain with 606. Belgium is the highest with 837 per 1 million population, so I'm not sure how concerned we should still be as there must be more intensity for us than in other countries.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Jun 2020 10:26am

Originally Posted by cools
Big spike in Germany but due to meat processing plant as is that breakout in Anglesey chicken plant. In fact seems to be very prevalent all round the world in these sort of environments. And that was where it was apparently started in Wuhans wet market. It must be so hard to apply all the social distancing , sanitisation and everything in these hands on factories dealing with meats...


Germany in a meat packing plant. Return to localised lockdown but only until 30th June, which to me seems rather short, and it says the R rate in Germany is 2.76 !
Just shows how meat, whether human flesh or animal flesh can obviously be carriers. Pig flesh is nearest to human flesh .

Must be different to any previous air -borne virus.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53149762
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Jun 2020 3:35pm

Originally Posted by granny
Frightened of upsetting people, but they might be sorry.

Despite our Covid 19 deaths reducing, UK still has the next greatest number per 1 million of the population at 628 followed by. Spain with 606. Belgium is the highest with 837 per 1 million population, so I'm not sure how concerned we should still be as there must be more intensity for us than in other countries.


And now the daily covid report backs are being discontinued, I wonder if they will still publish the death rate figures daily?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Jun 2020 5:54pm

Originally Posted by casper
And now the daily covid report backs are being discontinued, I wonder if they will still publish the death rate figures daily?


Load of wimps, when have we ever had a cabinet that was drawing short straws each time to decide who was going to visit the press? In ongoing situations like this we have always had one main presenter.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Jun 2020 10:29pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by casper
And now the daily covid report backs are being discontinued, I wonder if they will still publish the death rate figures daily?


Load of wimps, when have we ever had a cabinet that was drawing short straws each time to decide who was going to visit the press? In ongoing situations like this we have always had one main presenter.


I think you will find that each member who appeared in the daily Covid updates were connected to the particular dept. that was being referred to that day. So the transport minister gave an update of the travel arrangements, the Home Secretary gave an update of the police... etc. etc. Personally , that makes sense . otherwise what's the point in having different Governmental positions and departments ? The point is , a couple of people can't do it all. We've been through a major upheaval and I'm not sure any one of them would have got it all right, considering we went into this blindfolded and ignorant , and still nobody knows what is likely to happen next.

I don't think we have actually had another situation like this in my life time.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 9:49am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by casper
And now the daily covid report backs are being discontinued, I wonder if they will still publish the death rate figures daily?


Load of wimps, when have we ever had a cabinet that was drawing short straws each time to decide who was going to visit the press? In ongoing situations like this we have always had one main presenter.


I think you will find that each member who appeared in the daily Covid updates were connected to the particular dept. that was being referred to that day. So the transport minister gave an update of the travel arrangements, the Home Secretary gave an update of the police... etc. etc. Personally , that makes sense . otherwise what's the point in having different Governmental positions and departments ? The point is , a couple of people can't do it all. We've been through a major upheaval and I'm not sure any one of them would have got it all right, considering we went into this blindfolded and ignorant , and still nobody knows what is likely to happen next.

I don't think we have actually had another situation like this in my life time.


But we didn't go into this blindfolded and ignorant, we were fortunate to see what was happening in other countries and the measures they were taking or starting to take, yet we failed to act, the different faces appearing looked embarrassed and had to read notes off an idiot sheet, when asked specific questions they stuttered and looked lost, Johnson is the same the Paul Daniels hand movements distract from the blank look and the lack of substance, the jolly japes given way to the bumbling fool, like a third rate actor trying to portray a Prime Minister, Dominic the producer and director will be looking at the role very carefully soon.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 1:53pm


No, you are wrong. We were all blindfolded. Other countries were just as blindfolded, hence the lockdowns.

France 16th March
Germany 20th March
Italy did lockdown gradually in different areas, It wasn't until On 22 March, Lombardy strengthened its measures, banning all outdoor physical activity and the use of vending machines.
Spain 14th March but one of their football teams were over here playing Liverpool on 11th March.
New Zealand 25th March

UK 23rd March, and had lockdown been earlier as it was a pandemic declared by WHO on 11th March, then nobody would have had any food. Supermarket shelves were empty if you remember, and delivery slots were unavailable etc.

What would you have done for toilet rolls, Casper, or even a loaf of bread ?

I've said all this before and if you want to play the silly game and keep repeating the same old thing, then carry on, because it makes these Guardian readers look brainwashed without any factual evidence . Owen Jones and his twisted minded cronies.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 5:44pm

OMG! Looking at the news and the beaches in Bournemouth and everywhere else, crammed ! I can see another lockdown coming and 2nd spike. These mainly young ones just will not acknowledge there's a problem . What chance has any government got when these selfish people won't even try to be sensible and social distance to even a metre! It seemed the Spanish and Italians who mostly lived in apartments got more sense and responsibility than our lot . It's depressing...
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 8:58pm

Agreed, and teachers, local authorities etc. think it's too soon for children to go back to school. Accusing the Government of trying to encourage herd immunity so they can get the economy back on track.
What a load of bollocks., nothing more like herd immunity going on today at Bournemouth and Camber Sands.

Yesterday traffic was clogged up for 4 hours at Camber Sands in Kent. Those who needed to get to work couldn't, Carers couldn't reach their clients, medication was unable to be delivered, and a school bus with children in, steaming heat was stuck for hours (children are back at school in parts of Kent). The parents didn't know what had happened to them. The main road to Camber goes through all sorts of little villages and although this pic seems nowhere near as bad as Bournemouth, it was much the same on Formby beach today..

If the kids can't go back to school, then they shouldn't be on the beach in such dreadful congestion.

Attached picture 106289085_10157659209009480_6847019490837318493_o.jpg
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 9:06pm


...and the rubbish that's been left at Bournemouth as far as the eye can see, is appalling !
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 9:21pm

It's disgusting what these morons leave. Apparently there are no toilets open in these places so of course where are they going, poor people's gardens and all sorts.. On another forumn they saying New Brighton , the Dips there has been fighting and loads of rubbish littered about there. Makes you despair.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 9:38pm

Originally Posted by granny
Agreed, and teachers, local authorities etc. think it's too soon for children to go back to school. Accusing the Government of trying to encourage herd immunity so they can get the economy back on track.
What a load of bollocks., nothing more like herd immunity going on today at Bournemouth and Camber Sands.

Yesterday traffic was clogged up for 4 hours at Camber Sands in Kent. Those who needed to get to work couldn't, Carers couldn't reach their clients, medication was unable to be delivered, and a school bus with children in, steaming heat was stuck for hours (children are back at school in parts of Kent). The parents didn't know what had happened to them. The main road to Camber goes through all sorts of little villages and although this pic seems nowhere near as bad as Bournemouth, it was much the same on Formby beach today..

If the kids can't go back to school, then they shouldn't be on the beach in such dreadful congestion.





Tell me why is it bollocks granny? its the government that have allowed this to happen, they have encouraged it, the indecent haste to get cash rolling in, running before they can walk, as I've said many times before, they have no control, they have dangled normality in front of people for weeks,illegal raves, street parties, the police don't intervene for fear of causing civil unrest and riots which they know and the government know they can't control, only option call in the military, outcome downfall of the government, so they just let it fester.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 9:58pm

You would hope and wish that people would use their brains Casper and take some responsibility without being forcibly stopped. Don't think it matters what the government do , these morons seem to be on self destruct and to hell with it... makes me laugh they all go on these save the planet protests and support Greta Thomberg but it's the younger generation that treat the environment like a dustbin.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 10:04pm

Originally Posted by granny
No, you are wrong. We were all blindfolded. Other countries were just as blindfolded, hence the lockdowns.

France 16th March
Germany 20th March
Italy did lockdown gradually in different areas, It wasn't until On 22 March, Lombardy strengthened its measures, banning all outdoor physical activity and the use of vending machines.
Spain 14th March but one of their football teams were over here playing Liverpool on 11th March.
New Zealand 25th March


Why start at 16th Mar? These countries were reacting to the situation as soon as they could, not waiting until its too late.

Italy 9th March
Saudi 9th Mar
Mongolia 10th Mar
Quatar 11th Mar
El Salvador 12th Mar
Ireland 12th Mar
Albania 13th Mar
Poland 13th Mar
Iran 14th Mar
Kosovo 14th Mar
Kuwait 14th Mar
San Marino 14th Mar
Spain 14th Mar
Lebanon 15th Mar
Philippines 15th Mar
etc

As usual, UK Government waiting for America's lead, both started locked down on 23rd Mar despite being on a different infection timeline.

Originally Posted by granny


UK 23rd March, and had lockdown been earlier as it was a pandemic declared by WHO on 11th March, then nobody would have had any food. Supermarket shelves were empty if you remember, and delivery slots were unavailable etc.

What would you have done for toilet rolls, Casper, or even a loaf of bread ?


Lockdown did not cause those shortages, it was panic buying, it didn't make any difference when lockdown occurred, the shortage would have lasted about the same amount of time. When lockdown did happen there were no significant reduction in stocks.

When you are performing badly compared to almost everybody else it is pretty overwhelming evidence that you are doing something wrong.

Even the Government has started to admit its mistakes, they said they hadn't got a clue what they were doing because they didn't have any test data to analyse. This was the same Government that was adamant, against all advice, that it didn't want to introduce testing.

18 million passengers flew into the UK in the 3 months prior to lockdown, then there were ferries and trains as well. That is equivalent to more than a quarter of our population - it is a ludicrous amount of movement and is the cause of turning local infections and epidemics into pandemics.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 11:19pm

I know lockdown didn't cause the shortages, but it was panic and if you remember supplies were not available to restock shelves. Everyone would have been holed up without any food.

Italy did lockdown in phases. If you remember once Lombardy was locked down half the residents ran off to southern Italy.

Many passengers who flew into UK were UK residents who had been stranded abroad. 3 months prior to lockdown doesn't even enter into it and 18million over 3 months is normal anyway. So why raise that issue? First two cases were on 29th January , two Chinese nationals staying in a hotel in York, that's 2 months prior to lockdown. The first death was on the 2nd March in a care home.

Did all those countries you list not have any case prior to their lockdown ? The majority on the 14th March. Do you really believe 10 days more would have made all the difference considering London was the hot bed of infection with a multi cultural society ?
It spread across from Asia the ME to Europe. Maybe we should have locked down earlier, but it would seem we would not be lifting it any sooner as we are inline with all the other European countries bar a couple, so the economy would have been even worse. People were being sent home from work in Government departments before the lockdown in this country, child support agency being one of them. Told to isolate, which is what everyone was told to do if they showed any symptoms.

You say they Government didn't know what they were doing, Casper said we didn't go into it blindfolded and ignorant.. so who is right ?

Obviously you haven't read about all the uproar in all the other countries. Saying we are the only country that has faired badly and putting us down as a nation again and again and again , is from my corner looking pretty treacherous. I'll leave it at that, because if as a nation certain people are hell bent on damning every move , and


clearly every move the Government has made has been bad, including the financial support handed out right left and centre . Don't start moaning when the taxes go up another recession is in full swing. The whole bloody world is in dire straights, but we as a country have got food on our table, and clearly there a re many who can take themselves off for days out , and spend a fortune on petrol travelling from the midlands to Bournemouth for the day. I am fed up to the back teeth with all the nasty anti feeling in this country it seems to be on the verge of anarchy, and I'm not thinking it's only the young people , it seems to be the old too. . No wonder there are fights and riots waiting in the wings when so many continue to criticize every mortal thing. Mostly instigated by the left wing media.

Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Jun 2020 11:27pm

Originally Posted by cools
You would hope and wish that people would use their brains Casper and take some responsibility without being forcibly stopped. Don't think it matters what the government do , these morons seem to be on self destruct and to hell with it... makes me laugh they all go on these save the planet protests and support Greta Thomberg but it's the younger generation that treat the environment like a dustbin.


Exactly right , Cools.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 26th Jun 2020 5:19am

Originally Posted by granny
You say they Government didn't know what they were doing, Casper said we didn't go into it blindfolded and ignorant.. so who is right ?


Both!

The Government were given LOADS of prior knowledge but then chose to ignore all that experience and recommendations by refusing to test which left them blindfold as to how fast and how much the virus was spreading in this country.

Lockdown did not significantly interrupt the food chain, in fact the shops and supermarkets passed more food onto the food-banks than ever before.

We should have locked down in stages BUT the Government didn't have testing in place so could not even begin to guess what needed doing. Other countries were literally begging the UK to start testing but the clowns in charge stubbornly refused and lied by blaming it on their own scientific and medical advisers who were actually also calling for testing.

Have a think and come up with the reason Cumming's garden party didn't want testing in place (CV testing, not antibody testing).

Then also think why 25,000 people suspected of having CV were sent from hospitals back to care homes, in some cases without even telling the care homes that the patients may have CV.

Then try and work out why CV patient were still in regular hospitals that were close to open Nightingale Hospitals.

Why was Liverpool only allocated a 500 bed mini-Nightingale hospital that wasn't even going to be equipped for severe cases despite the Northwest being a known hotspot and in May Liverpool had the highest death rate for a city outside London, Wirral had worse statistics.

Why has the Government never mentioned this facility? It was due to open around the 18th April but the news blackout is deafening - even though work started on it I don't believe it was completed nor its doors opened nor is it ready for a second wave unlike the other nightingale hospitals.

Merseyside was the first dumping ground for Coronavirus in the UK and then we were dumped.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Jul 2020 11:50am

My opinion is make face mask/coverings mandatory. Don't know why it hasn't been done , most other countries doing it right from start and Scotland doing it, its got to help , better than nothing! I wear mine when I think the shop is crowded but sometimes you feel a right idiot or when nobody else is. I would feel much better if it was the law and hope it does so!
Think it's terrible all this confusion and it needs to be clarified. Gove , I've got to admit I don't like and have no confidence in him at all.Leave it to people's common sense ha, just like don't go beaches etc .
I'm not a government basher but come on Boris do it!
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Jul 2020 12:59pm

At the moment I don't wear a mask in the supermarket because I try to go when it's quiet and there's plenty of space; it doesn't feel threatening. If I go to, for example, the Birkenhead Abakhan which can be quite congested, I wear one. I'm fortunate in that I'm retired and I don't need to use public transport, so can choose where I go and when. I just wish they'd all stop havering and make a decision! Masks in shops? Fair enough, better to use them when we don't need them than not use them when we should. As for Michael Gove and his 'common sense' remark - purrlease... Wake up, Michael! Oh - 1pm - Boris has said people *should* be wearing masks in shops, but will make further announcements in coming days. Policing would obviously be a problem.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Jul 2020 1:16pm

The problem with me wearing a mask is that they steam up my gigs and I can't see where I am going.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Jul 2020 2:32pm

If you can find one with a properly fitting pinchy bit that goes over the bridge of the nose it should help to reduce that problem.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Jul 2020 3:42pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
The problem with me wearing a mask is that they steam up my gigs and I can't see where I am going.


I use a strip of Micropore tape across the top of the mask - there's an old Surgeon's trick for ya. Just prepare to wince when removing it :B
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Jul 2020 4:30pm

Originally Posted by Greenwood
If you can find one with a properly fitting pinchy bit that goes over the bridge of the nose it should help to reduce that problem.

Regardless of the type of mask, my gigs always steam up. frown

Originally Posted by MisterSmiff
I use a strip of Micropore tape across the top of the mask - there's an old Surgeon's trick for ya. Just prepare to wince when removing it :B

I think I will just send somebody else to do my shopping, haha!
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Jul 2020 10:26pm

Face masks/coverings to be made mandatory in shops etc 24thJuly or face a fine..
Me I'm glad , this horrible virus still around and anything that helps even a little got to be good.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53397617
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jul 2020 10:52am

Yes, apparently all face masks have to programmed as to what date they are effective from and none of them will work on the 23rd July.

This was the reason there was a shortage of masks, the Government had bought them ready for winter but they specified they should only be operational from 5th November to 1st April.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jul 2020 11:43am

Home and Bargain seem to have the cheapest masks at £9.99 for 50.
I don't know if they are in store or online only.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jul 2020 2:21pm

I'm not using disposable because as I say sick and disgusted at people who don't get rid of them properly and just more waste for this planet to absolve. I'd go with reusable cheaper and environmentally better.
You can get them online, cotton with pinchable nose wire I've just ordered one. I have same problem Mikeeb with foggy glasses.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jul 2020 3:33pm

Cools, does the pinch wire ones stop your gigs steaming up? I work on a building site and have used too many different types and It doesn’t matter which ones I use because it still happens. It looks like I will just have to put up with it. Ah well!
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jul 2020 3:37pm

Wouldn't say it stops them completely but it helps , another tip wash your glasses with a bit of soap rinse and gently dry. That helps abit but as you say it's an ongoing problem . Glasses Bain of our lives eh!
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Jul 2020 4:07pm

Originally Posted by cools
Glasses Bain of our lives eh!

Haha! You’re not wrong there.
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Jul 2020 8:20am

Four months in and now wear a mask, talk about closing the door after the horse has gone,
What a bunch of muppets we have running this country
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Jul 2020 8:29am

Shopper," Do you sell face mask?"
Shopkeeper "Yes we do"
Shopper about to enter shop to buy some
Shopkeeper," Sorry you can't come in, as your not wearing a face mask!"
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Jul 2020 9:07am

I think this government just follow other countries, if it works elsewhere then we will do it, we have Gove and Johnson aka Laurel and Hardy (another fine mess) we have Patel on about immigration, denying work permits for NHS workers, yet presiding over an invasion of illegals by rubber boat, paddling pool and canoe, if we can't control that then we can't protect our fishing grounds, I think they just follow each other to see what will happen next, aka whackamole.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Jul 2020 9:25am

"Russian spies are targeting organisations trying to develop a coronavirus vaccine in the UK, US and Canada, security services have warned."

Every country in the whole world should be collaborating on this and not keeping their research a secret FFS. Also, a vaccine will be found a lot faster and the whole world can move on from this pandemic once and for all.
F##k all this secrecy and trying to make money off a cure.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Jul 2020 9:46am

Research costs a lot of money, research departments need a way to recoup their money.

It’s the one major field where there is no practical way to avoid monetisation.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Jul 2020 9:55am

This should be funded by the governments of the world and all contributing to the research.
If knowledge is shared the vaccine is found faster and more money will be saved than holding on to their findings.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Jul 2020 11:13am

Originally Posted by mikeeb
This should be funded by the governments of the world and all contributing to the research.
If knowledge is shared the vaccine is found faster and more money will be saved than holding on to their findings.


But Governments cannot even agree to not knock ten bells out of each other's countries, let alone agree on cross-funding.

Furthermore most Governments can't even ensure that everybody has food or medicine inside their own country. Lives don't matter as long as capitalism is still alive and kicking!

If it took 10,000 blood donation to make one dose of vaccine, can you predict what each Government would do?
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Jul 2020 11:46am

That is one of the things I hate about capitalism, pure greed. I'd hope that whatever country finds a vaccine, they will pass on the knowledge of it to the rest of the world, at a fair price at least.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Jul 2020 1:54pm

i see Boris the cowardly lion has thrown the onus onto employers for people returning to work,the TV license mess onto the BBC, they will accept no responsibility for anything, they must have a department looking for ways to evade blame, the Patel bullying saga has faded into oblivion, Cummings is safe and well, they are probably looking for something more to pin on the Russians.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Jul 2020 3:48pm

He's left Council's in the lurch yet again, promising the world then only coming up with 10% of what he promised. Council's will get the blame for a Government uck-fup.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Jul 2020 2:06pm


Got to say how many people can be affected by one person.

My daughter came to visit me the other day, she also went to see her brother as neither of us have seen her for 12 months.

She was staying with a friend in Southport, and another friend joined them from London, who was not originally supposed to be arrivinng.

That particular person had a cough. By time my daughter had arrived home after driving to Kent was feeling pretty ill , the cough appeared a day later. Yesterday she went for a test. Results in a couple of days .

She doubts it is Covid, but if it should be.. that would mean :

Myself,
2 x sons
1 partner of son
2 children of son
1 mother of children
1 baby just born to mother of children
1 child of 3 yrs
! work partner of son
1 at risk mother of partner of son.
1 duaghter of my daughter
1 partner of my daughter
1 father of my daughters partner who has just had 2 heart operations following a heart attack . (he's helping his mum and dad on a daily basis along with his sister)
1 mother of my daughter's partner who is wheelcahir bound and vulnerable.

all possibly infected from one person in the immediate family. That's pretty scary !
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Jul 2020 3:54pm

Oh god Granny , it's so worrying this stinking virus. Do hope it comes back negative, you won't be able to rest till you get result...I still say I had this before Christmas and more and more people are saying they too. I didn't get a bad dose but it sent me to bed for couple of days and had the cough which was a very different cough to any I've had. I said to my sister it was like no flu I've ever had. Any way I'm going for a blood test at end of month to my doctors over something and I'm going to ask if it can be tested for c-19 antibodies.
Don't know whether they will do but still I'd really like to know. You take care Granny let's hope alls well..
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Jul 2020 4:25pm

Originally Posted by granny

Got to say how many people can be affected by one person.

My daughter came to visit me the other day, she also went to see her brother as neither of us have seen her for 12 months.

She was staying with a friend in Southport, and another friend joined them from London, who was not originally supposed to be arrivinng.

That particular person had a cough. By time my daughter had arrived home after driving to Kent was feeling pretty ill , the cough appeared a day later. Yesterday she went for a test. Results in a couple of days .

She doubts it is Covid, but if it should be.. that would mean :

Myself,
2 x sons
1 partner of son
2 children of son
1 mother of children
1 baby just born to mother of children
1 child of 3 yrs
! work partner of son
1 at risk mother of partner of son.
1 duaghter of my daughter
1 partner of my daughter
1 father of my daughters partner who has just had 2 heart operations following a heart attack . (he's helping his mum and dad on a daily basis along with his sister)
1 mother of my daughter's partner who is wheelcahir bound and vulnerable.

all possibly infected from one person in the immediate family. That's pretty scary !


Honestly, if more people were half as aware of the potential risk as you are, we could have put a lid on this much sooner, and be a leading example. As it is, we're one of the highest risk areas. I've fallen out with all the neighbours in my building due to their lackadaisical approach to their own safety, and they treat me like the odd one out. Best wishes and stay safe Granny and Family.

My own Department here at Liverpool Heart and Chest Hospital has been missing an influential Colleague who is recovering from bowel cancer, and has been continuing to influence us by showing her strength and determination to be there for her Grandchildren. We'll all miss her as a colleague when she retires, but I'm glad that through sticking to the rules (and she is very headstrong), she will soon be healthy enough to do the best job in the world - being a Grandparent.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Jul 2020 9:43pm

Amazed at the different attitudes in different places

A couple of weeks ago on one of our walks at Marbury, we were treated like lepers, people were crossing roads, walking down other peoples drives, diving behind hedges and all-sorts, I don't think anyone came within 15ft of us.

Today near Leek people were hanging around in the most awkward locations forcing people to brush past them.

Find it quite a mixture around here, apart from inside shops most people appear to be respectful and at least make a nominal attempt at social distancing if they see you take the initiative but if you don't start the Fred Astaire moves they happily head close to you.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Jul 2020 10:12pm


Thanks for the good wishes and I hope your work colleague is recovered enough soon to enjoy life, MisterSmiff.

Good news, and as she expected, her results came back in less than 24 hours. Negative. So that is a blessing.

We cannot account for others, but we still need to be vigilant at all times.

I have found that in my area of Wirral, (as Im not going any further afield as yet) people are still generally keeping the distance and many wearing masks when out and about, but it is noticeable that more are beginning to squeeze past at closer proxiity in certain situations. Generally young kids and twenty somethings. They seem to have now considered the dangers to be over to one degree or another.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Jul 2020 11:44pm

Originally Posted by cools
Oh god Granny , it's so worrying this stinking virus. Do hope it comes back negative, you won't be able to rest till you get result...I still say I had this before Christmas and more and more people are saying they too. I didn't get a bad dose but it sent me to bed for couple of days and had the cough which was a very different cough to any I've had. I said to my sister it was like no flu I've ever had. Any way I'm going for a blood test at end of month to my doctors over something and I'm going to ask if it can be tested for c-19 antibodies.
Don't know whether they will do but still I'd really like to know. You take care Granny let's hope alls well..


That's interesting Cool. My daughter was also convinced she had it early this year, along with a number of her teaching collegues after a school party had returned from a school trip to Italy in February . I am sure she would have mentioned that yesterday when she had her test, I must ask her .
At that point she was told to take the measures of isolation for two weeks , as she came to the end of isolation, lockdown was introduced.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Jul 2020 8:04am

Glad you and your family are safe and well granny , I am appalled at the failure to take measures and follow advice in some Wallasey area's, Liscard in particular, most shops and shopping areas have guidance and measures in place, but the majority just ignore them, football fans celebrating seem oblivious linking shoulders dancing chanting, imagine the expelled air and spittle droplets circulating around them, they then go home to their families, imagine the potential for a full blown epidemic should one be infected, stay safe.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Jul 2020 8:42am

Oh so glad for you Granny, you can rest easy now.... yes Casper I find that with younger ones they just not acknowledging there is a problem. I'm like a dodgem car sometimes even having to go up people's driveways because a gang of youths taking all pavement up and no intentions of letting you pass safely. A lot of them come out with it's all made up and governments way of controlling us!!! Not all I stress most understand I think about the virus . Talk about being alert , I got an itchy toe other day and it went red with me itching it then I heard that was now a symptom of C-19,,,OMG but if course it wasn't and it was just an itchy toe ha.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Jul 2020 12:41pm

In the news today, Devon and Cornwall police say they wont attend shops over people not wearing masks unless there is violence or disorder, no doubt others are thinking on the same lines, I wonder when it was decided that police forces are allowed to pick and choose which crimes or incidents they attend, its obvious that they can't stop illegal raves, reading through various media outlets I cant believe the amount of people that are anti mask and see the wearing of them as some sort of an imposition or an attack on their human rights.
Posted By: Moonstar

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jul 2020 1:28pm

This event is apparently going ahead. No doubt, if it does, large numbers from Wirral will be in attendance. I note that there is no refund on tickets.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/rock-the-park-music-festival-tickets-69201841571
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jul 2020 6:09pm

Lets see how much notice is taken of the pleas not to turn up at Anfield tonight.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Jul 2020 7:08pm

Ironical some of them were bemoaning the spanish team and supporters coming over for champions league game
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Jul 2020 9:32am

Originally Posted by Moonstar
This event is apparently going ahead. No doubt, if it does, large numbers from Wirral will be in attendance. I note that there is no refund on tickets.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/rock-the-park-music-festival-tickets-69201841571


2021 , Moonstar. Even so, there should be a big warning about buying tickets in advance and the chances it could be cancelled. Too far ahead for any major event to feel 100% secure.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Jul 2020 11:13am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by Moonstar
This event is apparently going ahead. No doubt, if it does, large numbers from Wirral will be in attendance. I note that there is no refund on tickets.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/rock-the-park-music-festival-tickets-69201841571


2021 , Moonstar. Even so, there should be a big warning about buying tickets in advance and the chances it could be cancelled. Too far ahead for any major event to feel 100% secure.


It doesn't appear to matter whether venues are secure or not granny, people are doing their own thing, the exclusion zone around Anfield was ignored, the police virtually helpless to exert any type of control, no doubt the media will tell us that one or two were arrested and it was all jolly good humoured fun, to be honest I'am feeling a bit despondent trying to follow advice when those around us don't bother, its like pissing in the wind. oshocked
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Jul 2020 12:32pm



Rest in the knowledge that you and many others are doing te right thing. There will be many cases of wrongdoings over a period of uncertainty, but the whole country cannot be policed with regard to stupidity.

It;s a bit like the guy who held a Covid party in the US, trying to prove it was all a load of bluff. Sadly for him he contracted Covid 19 and has since died. His comment before he died was 'I think I made a mistake ' . Well he surely did !
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Jul 2020 12:42pm

Originally Posted by granny


Rest in the knowledge that you and many others are doing te right thing. There will be many cases of wrongdoings over a period of uncertainty, but the whole country cannot be policed with regard to stupidity.

It;s a bit like the guy who held a Covid party in the US, trying to prove it was all a load of bluff. Sadly for him he contracted Covid 19 and has since died. His comment before he died was 'I think I made a mistake ' . Well he surely did !



I like that one granny, I think I made a mistake, how can people be so stupid as to believe it is all a conspiracy to manipulate us all into getting mass injections and medication and its only a dose of flu smack
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 29th Jul 2020 6:15am

You think this Covid would be the the answer to the Worlds problems, Countries working together, coming up with a vaccine and in doing so start to trust one another more, not needing to spy on each other and in the end get rid of Nuclear weapons, even armies etc, the money saved going towards more research into other illness and cancer etc, helping the poorer countries, climate control and plastic waste? But we know nothing will change Greed wins every time.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 29th Jul 2020 10:56am



Originally Posted by keef666
You think this Covid would be the the answer to the Worlds problems, Countries working together, coming up with a vaccine and in doing so start to trust one another more, not needing to spy on each other and in the end get rid of Nuclear weapons, even armies etc, the money saved going towards more research into other illness and cancer etc, helping the poorer countries, climate control and plastic waste? But we know nothing will change Greed wins every time.


We could hope, but leaving a vaccume to be filled will not include one single country or organisation to control our (the world) destiny.

Seems to be on the rise in Europe, up in France, Germany, Spain, Romania , don;t know where else, but if we have to lock down again, then I doubt this country could afford it and European countries are brassed off with already having to finance the southern European countries.

The tourism industry , mostly the airlines have basically been wanting their own way, well they got it and now they could be facing a worse situation.

Open borders in Europe could be closed again, schools could be closed again, can the country afford to 'furlough' again ?

If people thought that they could be without any governemnt financial support, maybe they might change their behaviour.

Young people who have partied, ignored the warnings , stuck two fingers up at authoraties and medical advice, held protests with thousands of people , and music events , they have a lot to asnwer for, and those who couldn't wait to get on the first plane out, I don;t thik they have the brain capacity to even understand the seriousness of the situtation which could now be returning.
Posted By: Moonstar

Re: Coronavirus - 29th Jul 2020 2:07pm

You can't help those who refuse to help themselves. Going out is now a very rare occurrence for me and when I have just recently it's been a mask for the duration. Some are treating the idea of a mask as a fashion accessory - all well and good if it meets the requirements, and from what I have read they haven't bothered to look up what fabric can and cannot be used and how many layers will be required.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 29th Jul 2020 6:52pm

Must admit, more notice seems to have been taken since Friday, lots of people wearing masks, perhaps the penny's dropped, according to the news covid infection is increasing in the young 20 to 30's, I wonder why that is?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 29th Jul 2020 9:03pm

Over half the staff in Asda Bromborough weren't wearing protection, weak Government should have made it compulsory. Many other industries have to wear PPE routinely in hazardous environments, how come this doesn't come under the same regulations? If its not classed as a hazardous environment why do customers have to wear masks?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jul 2020 9:07am



.

When we consider that certain countries that had low levels were in their summer time, and have since entered the winter months, with cases rising, maybe UV levels are the key to that.

I see Australia today is more concerened with cases rising, the same as Vietnam. Although Vietnam say their rise in cases is a different strain of Covid 19. Maybe they had a milder form first around in the Asiatic region, and now they've got our strain.

If we had a milder strain then we might be in for a rough winter.

Does anyone else beleive it has come out of a laboratory ? Noted that US has stopped accusing China since the intital bluster.
Posted By: _Ste_

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jul 2020 10:33am

Still going on about this bullshit? smack

Carry on little sheep popcorn
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jul 2020 11:03am

Sadly Ste, it ain't going away anytime soon. frown
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jul 2020 11:21am

Originally Posted by granny


.

When we consider that certain countries that had low levels were in their summer time, and have since entered the winter months, with cases rising, maybe UV levels are the key to that.

I see Australia today is more concerened with cases rising, the same as Vietnam. Although Vietnam say their rise in cases is a different strain of Covid 19. Maybe they had a milder form first around in the Asiatic region, and now they've got our strain.

If we had a milder strain then we might be in for a rough winter.

Does anyone else beleive it has come out of a laboratory ? Noted that US has stopped accusing China since the intital bluster.



Yes I think it came out of a lab, although not intentionally, it looks like the government is taking it a bit more seriously so they must be thinking ahead this time, the travel companies are beginning to annoy me now, they say their main concern is for jobs but some jumped right in to impose inferior terms and conditions on their workers, after praising the shoppers yesterday it was different today Home bargains 7 people without masks, one looked like she was waiting for a challenge.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jul 2020 11:52am

Originally Posted by _Ste_
Still going on about this bullshit? smack

Carry on little sheep popcorn


Could you stand in front of someone whose family member has died and say that? The deaths are very real and the shortened lives of many people who have recovered is also very real.

What is worse is that many of the deaths were avoidable and many more in the future would be avoidable as well.

But who wants to stop people enjoying themselves at raves even though it puts other lives at risk.

The "I haven't caught it so far so it doesn't exist" way of thinking just doesn't work.

The "I'll probably survive it" way of thinking doesn't mean you won't kill someone else, how many deaths due to your actions would you be comfortable with? Especially when you are in contact with people in the higher risk categories.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jul 2020 12:27pm

Just had a flash back, some of you may remember this, be in time mask in nine.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jul 2020 5:17pm

EDIT: never mind
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 30th Jul 2020 10:49pm

Originally Posted by _Ste_
Still going on about this bullshit? smack

Carry on little sheep popcorn


'Bullshit' it might be to you, but clearly you are interested enough to read . Don't make me laugh !
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jul 2020 9:28am

New lockdown restrictions come into place for northern England.
I hope it doesn't spread our way.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53602362

I was reading about the Spanish flu and how certain cities in the US handled the pandemic, and if we can compare the similarities with CV it looks like we will be dealing with this well into next year.
Granted, we have more advanced technology and medicine than they did but it's still not a good read.
Here is how St Louis handled it.
https://www.stlmag.com/history/history-of-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-in-st-louis/
Posted By: Moonstar

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jul 2020 9:30am

I wonder if this was an infection that was more visible - like some sort of pox - folk might be more careful.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jul 2020 1:40pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
New lockdown restrictions come into place for northern England.
I hope it doesn't spread our way.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53602362

I was reading about the Spanish flu and how certain cities in the US handled the pandemic, and if we can compare the similarities with CV it looks like we will be dealing with this well into next year.
Granted, we have more advanced technology and medicine than they did but it's still not a good read.
Here is how St Louis handled it.
https://www.stlmag.com/history/history-of-the-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-in-st-louis/



From what Matt Hancock has said its another ill thought out policy apparently the virus is most transmittable indoors, but only in family homes, it knows not to infect pub's, eateries, workplaces and transport etc, we can meet our families in the park or other open space, but not in a pub, I think what Matt is trying to say is the economy has priority, I wonder if it's alright to take a drive to test my eyes?

Also on the news a bit of bigotry from a leading Muslim, who seemed to think this has been done to spoil their religious festival, commenting I bet they wouldn't have done this on Christmas eve. coffee
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jul 2020 2:53pm

I can see us having another lockdown the way things are going. These places that have been stopped meeting indoors are the ones having big parties , raves and suchlike invariably young ones.
I do feel so sorry for Boris , he can't do right for doing wrong! . What a god awful start he's had to his primeminister stint, who'd want to be prime minister in these times? There has been mistakes made but so have other countries but we've never been through such a time I doubt that anyone would have done better.
Retrospect is a great thing but no one knew really how to handle it.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jul 2020 4:50pm

Originally Posted by casper
Also on the news a bit of bigotry from a leading Muslim, who seemed to think this has been done to spoil their religious festival, commenting I bet they wouldn't have done this on Christmas eve. coffee

Typical victim statement. I bet he regrets saying it now, haha!
Originally Posted by cools
who'd want to be prime minister in these times?

Who'd want to be prime minister in any times? grin
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 31st Jul 2020 6:56pm

[quote=cools]I can see us having another lockdown the way things are going. These places that have been stopped meeting indoors are the ones having big parties , raves and suchlike invariably young ones.
I do feel so sorry for Boris , he can't do right for doing wrong! . What a god awful start he's had to his primeminister stint, who'd want to be prime minister in these times? There has been mistakes made but so have other countries but we've never been through such a time I doubt that anyone would have done better.
Retrospect is a great thing but no one knew really how to handle it. [/quot

Really cools you feel sorry for Boris, who lied and manipulated himself into the PM's seat yet the seat he wanted so badly has turned in to the proverbial poisoned chalice, he hasn't done any right yet has he? threw the elderly under the bus 50,000 odd deaths the highest in Europe, failed or refused to follow advice from other countries, his party has run the country into the ground over the past decade, NHS, emergency services, police, armed forces, so much so we couldn't enforce a full lockdown the likes of what Italy had even if it was required because we don't have the resources, we can't even cope with illegal raves because the police are overwhelmed and under manned, so any enforcement falls on shopkeepers, bus and train drivers and personel and the general public who have no legal authority, how on earth can that possibly work, people have been giving two fingers to it over the past month Matt Hancock trying to blag and bluster his way through some questions from Naga Munchety but failed miserably, Boris is only trying to head off another fiasco for himself before people realise what an imposter he really is.

As to anyone doing better we will never know that, but make no error if a Labour government had of been in power, good bad or indifferent, the Tories would have set on them like a pack of rabid dogs for a similar fiasco.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 1st Aug 2020 12:01pm

We had an election and the people voted and Boris was elected , whether you liked it or not. I dread to think what job Corbyn and Diane Abbot would have made of it, I read a quote somewhere that if you said to Abbot we're going to lockdown she'd have gone to Scotland looking for it!

I don't want to trade political blows this damned virus is what we've got to fight! Boris has made big mistakes and he said himself there will be an inquiry into the handling of it when the times right. None of us realised at the beginning how bad this was going to be and even countries who did a good job are now beginning to start again. People moaned about lockdown coming too late and I was one of them but now he's clamping down as he said he would , people moaning because they haven't finished their holidays or he spoilt their religious things but for me even it was Christmas and we were told to do it , well so be it. Year 2020 is a wipeout anyway we got to look forward to. 2021 and hope this is under control...
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 1st Aug 2020 12:48pm

Originally Posted by cools
None of us realised at the beginning how bad this was going to be


Most of us did, we knew what had happened in China, South Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Italy, Spain etc etc and Boris sat there doing nothing.

WHO declared Covid-19 as a "Public Health Emergency of international Concern" on the 30th January. Britain's first response was on the 16th March and even then it was pitiful.

What is even more worrying is that not only did Boris react late, he then didn't attempt to catch up, things he is doing now are still weeks after they should have been implemented. For a number of months he replicated what America was doing despite the American virus progression being weeks later than us.

Under the Tories the country has gone from world leaders to world followers - its pathetic, we have the skills to be ahead of the game but the politicians haven't got the bottle to capitalise on that. Porton Down is known throughout the world but I bet few can name another non-University laboratory of similar scale in any other country.

Furthermore Boris has used this as a get-out-of-jail-free to hide the monetary theft the Tory party has been undertaking. He has thrown money around totally unnecessarily, in his eyes the more he spends on CV the more hidden the previous corruption is. This will be followed as an excuse to deepen austerity measures despite them making very little difference to the country's finances - it is the money that is being handed to the rich that is bankrupting the people of this country.

Corbyn would have been ridiculed for doing something minor one day late, Boris gets away with killing people by being months late. The power of the millionaire's media!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 1st Aug 2020 12:55pm

Originally Posted by cools
We had an election and the people voted and Boris was elected , whether you liked it or not. I dread to think what job Corbyn and Diane Abbot would have made of it, I read a quote somewhere that if you said to Abbot we're going to lockdown she'd have gone to Scotland looking for it!

I don't want to trade political blows this damned virus is what we've got to fight! Boris has made big mistakes and he said himself there will be an inquiry into the handling of it when the times right. None of us realised at the beginning how bad this was going to be and even countries who did a good job are now beginning to start again. People moaned about lockdown coming too late and I was one of them but now he's clamping down as he said he would , people moaning because they haven't finished their holidays or he spoilt their religious things but for me even it was Christmas and we were told to do it , well so be it. Year 2020 is a wipeout anyway we got to look forward to. 2021 and hope this is under control...


Cools regardless of whether I liked it or not, he was voted in, his main purpose then was to take us out of the EU, then along comes Covid, a bigger challenge one of the greatest since the second world war, what happens the self proclaimed Churchill 2 is found wanting and out of his depth the tousle headed clown act and the jolly japes don't get it done, so desperate is he, he listens to Cummings and a few rabid right wingers, so what if a few pensioners die, (denied of course) then the penny drops but its to late the damage has been done, but it's okay there will be an enquiry when the time is right, maybe when everything has been forgotten or played down.

We don't know how Corbyn would have handled it, maybe he would have taken the advice of the WHO and listened to what other countries were telling us, something Boris refused to do, we will never know.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 1st Aug 2020 5:23pm

For crying out loud , can we move forward instead of harping back, again and again and again. This virus changes daily as in all other countries.

Always the blame game.... I hope none of you are wearing the paper masks... they take 450 years to disintegrate and a call out from WHO has said its a huge environmental catrastophie about to arise.

Blame Boris.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53622877

The east and south coast and the north west coast saw the "heaviest" number of call-outs, while the area around Liverpool and the Wirral saw the most reported incidents at 26, the coastguard said.

Yes, let's blame Boris.

Russia have a vaccine, almost ready for mass roll out from October. Will UK ask Russia for the recipe ? No, I doubt it.

Blame Boris




Blame Blair for allowing too many people in the country during his premiership.. All from Europe, and mostly from countries with far smaller populations and less density than UK. Blame Boris for not sending them home again .

Illegal Migrants sailng across the Channel bringing Covid with them.. Blame Boris [/u]

Black communities where the rise in infections is greatest... [u]Blame Boris
becuase they can't follow guidance or even want to.



Huge protests in Germany today because they no longer want lockdown restrictions............ none of them wearinng masks. ..... Blame Boris

18 million cases worldwide and rising, and it's going to get worse ......... Blame Boris

And if pub have to close again............ BLAME BORIS

It's easy to have a blame game. Its makes people feel better about themselves lets all shout aloud . Blame Boris

Posted By: _Ste_

Re: Coronavirus - 1st Aug 2020 7:10pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by _Ste_
Still going on about this bullshit? smack

Carry on little sheep popcorn


Could you stand in front of someone whose family member has died and say that? The deaths are very real and the shortened lives of many people who have recovered is also very real.

What is worse is that many of the deaths were avoidable and many more in the future would be avoidable as well.

But who wants to stop people enjoying themselves at raves even though it puts other lives at risk.

The "I haven't caught it so far so it doesn't exist" way of thinking just doesn't work.

The "I'll probably survive it" way of thinking doesn't mean you won't kill someone else, how many deaths due to your actions would you be comfortable with? Especially when you are in contact with people in the higher risk categories.


Right, first off don't turn into the snowflake generation, it doesn't suit you.

2cd, Your post (in the snowflake legality year of 2020) is inciting hatred, luckily I'm old school and don't believe in all that bullshit as I'm not a snowflake.

3rd, grow up

Finally, goto first off and repeat.

Sorry pal but I'm sick of all the bullshit these days, its darn right ridiculous and you know it, can't say this, can't say that, I'm no sheep and ill say what I like, NOBODY controls me, look at yourself man, you're drawn in by all this shite yourself! WAKE UP!

You know me and know exactly the way I think on matters in this day and age, do not insult me!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Aug 2020 8:14am

Originally Posted by granny
For crying out loud , can we move forward instead of harping back, again and again and again. This virus changes daily as in all other countries.

Always the blame game.... I hope none of you are wearing the paper masks... they take 450 years to disintegrate and a call out from WHO has said its a huge environmental catrastophie about to arise.

Blame Boris.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53622877

The east and south coast and the north west coast saw the "heaviest" number of call-outs, while the area around Liverpool and the Wirral saw the most reported incidents at 26, the coastguard said.

Yes, let's blame Boris.

Russia have a vaccine, almost ready for mass roll out from October. Will UK ask Russia for the recipe ? No, I doubt it.

Blame Boris




Blame Blair for allowing too many people in the country during his premiership.. All from Europe, and mostly from countries with far smaller populations and less density than UK. Blame Boris for not sending them home again .

Illegal Migrants sailng across the Channel bringing Covid with them.. Blame Boris [/u]

Black communities where the rise in infections is greatest... [u]Blame Boris
becuase they can't follow guidance or even want to.



Huge protests in Germany today because they no longer want lockdown restrictions............ none of them wearinng masks. ..... Blame Boris

18 million cases worldwide and rising, and it's going to get worse ......... Blame Boris

And if pub have to close again............ BLAME BORIS

It's easy to have a blame game. Its makes people feel better about themselves lets all shout aloud . Blame Boris



Boris is the political leader of the country, a position he desired and manipulated himself into, as for blame Boris, is he not responsible for the handling of the pandemic and the mishandling of it in the early stages something of which he has admitted to? due to his inept handling of the virus 50,000 odd have died, is blame and criticism not justified then? even some of his so called friends have been critical of him saying he will avoid blame at any cost, is this then Boris who blames everyone else? a lot of the blames you have mentioned are not directly linked to Boris but to the policies of his government which he has supported, he didn't just make honest mistakes he showed blatant disregard in accepting advice from those not qualified to give it, something we can't forget or wipe away, lets put it this way if it had been a business deal he was handling for his rich cronies and lost billions he would have been out of a job.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Aug 2020 10:02am

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny
For crying out loud , can we move forward instead of harping back, again and again and again. This virus changes daily as in all other countries.

Always the blame game.... I hope none of you are wearing the paper masks... they take 450 years to disintegrate and a call out from WHO has said its a huge environmental catrastophie about to arise.

Blame Boris.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53622877

The east and south coast and the north west coast saw the "heaviest" number of call-outs, while the area around Liverpool and the Wirral saw the most reported incidents at 26, the coastguard said.

Yes, let's blame Boris.

Russia have a vaccine, almost ready for mass roll out from October. Will UK ask Russia for the recipe ? No, I doubt it.

Blame Boris




Blame Blair for allowing too many people in the country during his premiership.. All from Europe, and mostly from countries with far smaller populations and less density than UK. Blame Boris for not sending them home again .

Illegal Migrants sailng across the Channel bringing Covid with them.. Blame Boris [/u]

Black communities where the rise in infections is greatest... [u]Blame Boris
becuase they can't follow guidance or even want to.



Huge protests in Germany today because they no longer want lockdown restrictions............ none of them wearinng masks. ..... Blame Boris

18 million cases worldwide and rising, and it's going to get worse ......... Blame Boris

And if pub have to close again............ BLAME BORIS

It's easy to have a blame game. Its makes people feel better about themselves lets all shout aloud . Blame Boris



Boris is the political leader of the country, a position he desired and manipulated himself into, as for blame Boris, is he not responsible for the handling of the pandemic and the mishandling of it in the early stages something of which he has admitted to? due to his inept handling of the virus 50,000 odd have died, is blame and criticism not justified then? even some of his so called friends have been critical of him saying he will avoid blame at any cost, is this then Boris who blames everyone else? a lot of the blames you have mentioned are not directly linked to Boris but to the policies of his government which he has supported, he didn't just make honest mistakes he showed blatant disregard in accepting advice from those not qualified to give it, something we can't forget or wipe away, lets put it this way if it had been a business deal he was handling for his rich cronies and lost billions he would have been out of a job.


So do you think he would have been better equipped to follow advice from Russia , or USA, and how do you make out that he followed advice from people not equipped to give it ? Read the article below..

Clutching at straws Casper, in a hope to hang onto your hatred of one man. Let's not forget he might not have been there if Labour had not managed to initiate the forcing out of Mrs May ! Which would you rather, May, Boris or Corbyn in such a pandemic ? I know which one I'd prefer. Another point is that two years ago, Alan Greenspan actually forecast another pandemic... which makes one wonder how it has been triggered !

Casper, the first bit of wrong information you are peddling is 50,000 deaths. It's actually 46, 000. How many from Scotland, Ireland and Wales. = 4600. joint population 11 million.
Leaving a total for England as 41,400 with population of 56 million. London deaths 6,130. So for the rest of England, a total of 35,270 deaths.
This makes things look a bit clearer now, as Scotland, Ireland and Wales made their own choices and decisions anyway.

Worth reading. Boris's name is not at the forefront of this at any time. It actually says to me that too many people were holding too many different ideas for many different reasons. There's an old expression. 'Too many cooks spoil the broth' .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53433824?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB





Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Aug 2020 10:38am

Oh dear granny, I never mentioned Russia or the USA, although there is a belief he was following his doppleganger in the US, and lets not forget he manipulated Cameron gave him the loaded pistol, if that failed he might not have been here.

Not wrong information granny, official death toll as of 5th June 51,804 plus 12,729 excess, number of deaths 43% higher than average 64,500 more people dying than usual, makes grim reading doesn't it, are you trying to be a politician granny ? England,Scotland Ireland Wales make up the United Kingdom, sounds like a Boris get out splitting us up to lessen the impact,

I don't hate Boris, I hate what he represents, there are Boris types in every walk of life, use and abuse others for the trappings of gain and power, aka shit on everyone to get what you want, he found his niche in the Conservative party of like minded people.

Anyway I hope you and yours are keeping well, kiss kiss.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Aug 2020 5:13pm

..... The government need to give us all reparations for their crimes against OUR humanity
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Aug 2020 5:25pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czmJ5HFdsfM I don't think UK is united now .... everyone is a bit angry and upset too much

... united we stand ... divided we fall !
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Aug 2020 6:08pm

Originally Posted by casper
Oh dear granny, I never mentioned Russia or the USA, although there is a belief he was following his doppleganger in the US, and lets not forget he manipulated Cameron gave him the loaded pistol, if that failed he might not have been here.

Not wrong information granny, official death toll as of 5th June 51,804 plus 12,729 excess, number of deaths 43% higher than average 64,500 more people dying than usual, makes grim reading doesn't it, are you trying to be a politician granny ? England,Scotland Ireland Wales make up the United Kingdom, sounds like a Boris get out splitting us up to lessen the impact,

I don't hate Boris, I hate what he represents, there are Boris types in every walk of life, use and abuse others for the trappings of gain and power, aka shit on everyone to get what you want, he found his niche in the Conservative party of like minded people.

Anyway I hope you and yours are keeping well, kiss kiss.


Worldometer, Casper. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Today so far COVID 19 related ( fully updated by midnight) 134,456 new cases and 2,884 new deaths.
UK 743 new cases, new deaths 8, total deaths 46,201

Spain ommitting releasing their figures over th last number of days.

All ok at Granny's domain thank you but never mind kissy, kissy, we're not back on an equal footing yet , my young man.

Hope you and yours are fighting fit...
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Aug 2020 6:12pm

[quote=GaryFromWirral. The government need to give us all reparations for their crimes against OUR humanity[/quote]


What are you on about ?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 2nd Aug 2020 8:33pm

It depends which figures you chose to believe, the 51,000 odd have covid listed as a cause on the death certificates, info from the BBC and a number of newspapers, but if you wish to believe the lower figure given by the government then fine, the one thing that they excel at is telling porkies.xx
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 12:30am



Well, if thats the way it works, neither do we have any idea of how many cases or deaths there are in Europe, therefore placing us as the worst in Europe is complete fantasy .
Posted By: _Ste_

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 1:19am

coffee
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 8:07am

Originally Posted by granny


Well, if thats the way it works, neither do we have any idea of how many cases or deaths there are in Europe, therefore placing us as the worst in Europe is complete fantasy .


Well based on the figures given on the link you provided it looks even worse, fourth highest death toll in the world, there is no escaping it even if all countries massage their figures to a degree that we are amongst the highest in the world.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 8:17am

Originally Posted by _Ste_
coffee


Ste, if you think we are all sheep why follow the thread? I am sure you wouldn't want to associated with people that believe in bullshit, we all have a right to voice our opinions, as you can see from this thread we don't always agree with each other, I am sure some people would see your posts as bullshit but are to polite to say so.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 9:20am

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny


Well, if thats the way it works, neither do we have any idea of how many cases or deaths there are in Europe, therefore placing us as the worst in Europe is complete fantasy .


Well based on the figures given on the link you provided it looks even worse, fourth highest death toll in the world, there is no escaping it even if all countries massage their figures to a degree that we are amongst the highest in the world.


Wait and see, most of those countries are only just being hit with it and many are hot countries which could be a contributary factor due to UV levels . (that's according to a neighbour who is inputting data on this Covid ) .For example, we see South Africa's cases rising rapidly, they are in the winter months between June and August.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 2:46pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny


Well, if thats the way it works, neither do we have any idea of how many cases or deaths there are in Europe, therefore placing us as the worst in Europe is complete fantasy .


Well based on the figures given on the link you provided it looks even worse, fourth highest death toll in the world, there is no escaping it even if all countries massage their figures to a degree that we are amongst the highest in the world.


Wait and see, most of those countries are only just being hit with it and many are hot countries which could be a contributary factor due to UV levels . (that's according to a neighbour who is inputting data on this Covid ) .For example, we see South Africa's cases rising rapidly, they are in the winter months between June and August.


Granny, don't you be falling for that silver tongued rascal Boris, he will whisper sweet nothings to get your vote. wink
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 8:47pm


what's Boris got to do with my thoughts ? No , I can make my own thoughts based on various differing outcomes , nor do I need all the loaded criticism to influence , nor do I need Boris to show me that hot countries have overall been fairing much better.
Europe wasn't hot, and UK was very wet. between December and March.

You know as well as anyone, thoughts are thoguhts and even the BBC doesn't have the answer ! Interestingly, BBC have aquired an insider information pack from Iran about how many cases they have or have not submitted, but from all accounts , English people who live in those middle eastern countries, BBC tells lies . That comes from the horses mouths and many of them who are based there.
Most other news is third hand these days... they don't have reporters in places where they are at risk so they scan the internet for a story,( true or untrue) re-word it and print it in our press. Isn't that where all the gossip comes from ?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 9:03pm

Sorry I shouldn't have added the quotes, it was just a wind up reply, not meant to be associated with the quotes.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Aug 2020 9:15pm

Originally Posted by casper
Sorry I shouldn't have added the quotes, it was just a wind up reply, not meant to be associated with the quotes.


What quotes ? I know you try to wind me up, and vice versa.. wink
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Aug 2020 6:01pm

I went for a blood test this morning and was asked would I like an extra sample taken as an anti body test??? not having had the covid I wouldn't build up any antibody's surely, maybe just an excuse to get the prescribed amount of tests done at the behest of the government
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Aug 2020 6:29pm

Originally Posted by casper
I went for a blood test this morning and was asked would I like an extra sample taken as an anti body test???


Asymptomatic COVID is enough of a concern that the frontline Staff at my place get regularly tested for it. Regardless of any political impetus, it's good idea just in case you happen to be lucky enough to have some of the raw ingredients for a vaccine inside of you :B
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Aug 2020 6:46pm

Originally Posted by MisterSmiff
Originally Posted by casper
I went for a blood test this morning and was asked would I like an extra sample taken as an anti body test???


Asymptomatic COVID is enough of a concern that the frontline Staff at my place get regularly tested for it. Regardless of any political impetus, it's good idea just in case you happen to be lucky enough to have some of the raw ingredients for a vaccine inside of you :B


I haven't got a problem with it, just wondering why I would be given an antibody test not having had the virus, being in the high risk , I probably would have snuffed it had I have been infected, and as the government appear to be more interested in the quota of tests done rather than the reasons, is it to boost public confidence that they have everything under control, another U turn coming soon near you.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Aug 2020 7:52pm

I went for blood test for something else on Friday and I asked for an antibody test because I was convinced I'd had it before December. Surprised to receive the text that same afternoon , it was negative. I was quite disappointed because I would have felt a little safer if I had antibodies and as I say I was really convinced I'd had it.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 7:23am

Originally Posted by casper
I went for a blood test this morning and was asked would I like an extra sample taken as an anti body test??? not having had the covid I wouldn't build up any antibody's surely, maybe just an excuse to get the prescribed amount of tests done at the behest of the government

Everything is not a government conspiracy casper. Many people have had the virus with no symptons or very insignificant symptons, and just because you are in the high risk category doesn't mean you will get severe symptons.
Getting the antibody test will just be for peace of mind.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 8:30am

Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by casper
I went for a blood test this morning and was asked would I like an extra sample taken as an anti body test??? not having had the covid I wouldn't build up any antibody's surely, maybe just an excuse to get the prescribed amount of tests done at the behest of the government

Everything is not a government conspiracy casper. Many people have had the virus with no symptons or very insignificant symptons, and just because you are in the high risk category doesn't mean you will get severe symptons.
Getting the antibody test will just be for peace of mind.


I'am not implying there is a conspiracy conspiracy is a strong word perhaps the thought crossed your mind, I am talking about the governments obsession with figures, they give a figure that so many tests will be carried out by such and such a date, or the schools will return in September, and everything must fit into that timeline regardless, even if it means manipulating the system to appear they have control, perhaps if they provided more information people would understand what was happening, as it is various sub organisations, GP's, dentists. opticians, etc have to keep seeking information to enable them to carry out their own arrangements, so anyway I can expect to be told that I have had / not had covid for my peace of mind, lets wait and see.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 10:46am

Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by casper
I went for a blood test this morning and was asked would I like an extra sample taken as an anti body test??? not having had the covid I wouldn't build up any antibody's surely, maybe just an excuse to get the prescribed amount of tests done at the behest of the government

Everything is not a government conspiracy casper. Many people have had the virus with no symptons or very insignificant symptons, and just because you are in the high risk category doesn't mean you will get severe symptons.
Getting the antibody test will just be for peace of mind.



Just an addendum to my previous post, an antibody test is only good within a fortnight of having the virus.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 1:45pm

Have you had a text to tell you the result of your antibodies test yet Casper? I was very surprised when within a few hours of having blood taken result came through It seemed very quick to me.. I thought antibodies stayed in your system for an undertermined time so why is it only good for two weeks?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 5:11pm

They are at a maximum just after the disease then they fade away to a very small amount, the quicker tests can only detect them when there are a lot still floating around your system.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 5:21pm

Ok thanks DD, didn't realise that.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 6:09pm

Originally Posted by cools
Have you had a text to tell you the result of your antibodies test yet Casper? I was very surprised when within a few hours of having blood taken result came through It seemed very quick to me.. I thought antibodies stayed in your system for an undertermined time so why is it only good for two weeks?


No not any contact yet cools.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 7:31pm

The Commons Home Affairs Select Committee and the Public Accounts Committee are both finding significant mishandling of the Covid response by the Government.

I suspect there will be more committees raising points soon.

Will it make any difference? I doubt it, the same people will keep on making blatant mistakes on a near daily basis.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 5th Aug 2020 11:44pm



Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The Commons Home Affairs Select Committee and the Public Accounts Committee are both finding significant mishandling of the Covid response by the Government.

I suspect there will be more committees raising points soon.

Will it make any difference? I doubt it, the same people will keep on making blatant mistakes on a near daily basis.



That should make people happy then. A case of " Told you so " !
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Aug 2020 1:59am

Originally Posted by granny


Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The Commons Home Affairs Select Committee and the Public Accounts Committee are both finding significant mishandling of the Covid response by the Government.

I suspect there will be more committees raising points soon.

Will it make any difference? I doubt it, the same people will keep on making blatant mistakes on a near daily basis.



That should make people happy then. A case of " Told you so " !



There is nothing good about incompetence causing deaths and even worse this is still continuing, it needs to be stopped.

It isn't about brownie points, it is about people's lives.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 6th Aug 2020 9:16am

Originally Posted by granny


[quote=diggingdeeper]The Commons Home Affairs Select Committee and the Public Accounts Committee are both finding significant mishandling of the Covid response by the Government.

I suspect there will be more committees raising points soon.

Will it make any difference? I doubt it, the same people will keep on making blatant mistakes on a near daily basis.



That should make people happy then. A case of " Told you so " ! [

Not happy granny, its not about that, they are guilty at the very least of gross incompetence and even admitted it to a small degree, probably hoping to fend off a full investigation, Johnson keeps on pushing away calls for a public enquiry, if we can't find out what went wrong then we can't fix it, they are still trying to defend their actions, as usual everyone else is wrong.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Aug 2020 4:46pm

Portugal finally off quarantine list for England, happy days!
I'll be flying out in a few days.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/portugal
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Aug 2020 7:34am

It's gone very quiet on the covid front, except for the localised outbreaks, very few death reports, the school results fiasco has stolen the headlines, soon the bungling and mistakes will be forgotten and Johnson will emerge from his funk hole.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Aug 2020 8:47pm

Boris even managed to bungle his "camping" holiday. Rented a cottage then without permission erected a tent in the next field, climbing over the fence instead of using a gate. Farmer isn't too chuffed at not being asked.

The timing of his holiday and the tent's appearance isn't clear yet but it looks like it may have been put up as an afterthought in case it was needed for photographs.

CV-19 might look quiet but the r-number shows it is growing again and that's before the UV has dwindled significantly. It looks like its going to be a tough winter.

They are looking for more volunteers for the inoculation trials.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Aug 2020 8:59pm

I'm sure the midgies will have made their presence felt, unless the sea breeze has kept them at bay... wouldn't fancy camping that close to a cliff myself!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Aug 2020 1:15pm


What a lot of nonesense. He hired a £1,500 per week cottage and set up a tent in the next field with a baby of 4 months ?

Believe that and believe anything.

As reported last night ,he left because his location had been spotted. No doubt the tent was erected by and used by the paparazzi.
Only the media have said the farmer was angry..... Let's hear from the disgruntled farmer.....not surprisingly, he's remained silent so far.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Aug 2020 1:32pm


..and even if he had doen, would it have really mattered. Not crop growing , and no animals. Just rough land.

It was probably his security team



Attached picture hero_195172.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Aug 2020 8:31pm

These are Kenny Cameron's, the farmer's, words

Quote
"Mr Johnson is meant to be leading the country and yet he is not setting a great example."

"Usually if people want to go inside a fenced area, they ask for permission first, but I was not asked at all. It is only polite to ask."

"He could have put up his tent in the garden of the cottage and there would have been no problem – but he didn't do that."

"He could easily have damaged the fence by climbing over it as a short cut. There is a gate a little way up and they could have just used that."

"Having a bonfire is always a risk when you have dry weather. I know we had rain last night but it has been very dry."

"It was the first time I had seen a tent in the field. I last came up here a few days ago and it was not here then."

"It is nice that the Prime Minister came here with his family. This area is very remote. There is plenty of peace and quiet."


The field is used by Mr Cameron's sheep.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Aug 2020 11:19pm


Yeh, well I saw a different report saying that Mr Cameron uses the field for sheep in the winter, and Mr Cameron rents the field. .. Its not winter yet.

Have you never pitched a tent in a field ? I have.. many times . I once pitched a tent in someones back garden (it was dark at the time ) It wasn;t the end of the world.

For someone who goes on jaunts exploring old buildings that are owned by other people and not open to public, its a bit ripe .

This is none news. It's a bloody field !!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 12:30am

Take only photo's, leave only footprints. Big difference from squatting and setting off fires. Apart from which if I think the owner or person responsible is approachable then I ask. On occasions the police have been present and not once have the police asked us to leave the property, even when we have specifically asked if they want us to leave.

I challenge anyone to say they have never trespassed, not many people have squatted.

Whilst the general rule is sheep go on the highlands in summer and lowlands in winter, I don't think being right on the coast classes as winter lowlands?

Whilst I have stayed outdoors overnight many times in tents and vehicles, I have never done it without permission from the owner or tenant, even when it was dangling on a crag. You are robbing them of pitch fees if you don't.

Someone has been quick off the mark and attached a picture of someone that looks like Boris next to a coffin tent at the cottage on google maps https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.5135567,-5.8613149,183m/data=!3m1!1e3
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 7:32am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Take only photo's, leave only footprints. Big difference from squatting and setting off fires. Apart from which if I think the owner or person responsible is approachable then I ask. On occasions the police have been present and not once have the police asked us to leave the property, even when we have specifically asked if they want us to leave.

I challenge anyone to say they have never trespassed, not many people have squatted.

Whilst the general rule is sheep go on the highlands in summer and lowlands in winter, I don't think being right on the coast classes as winter lowlands?

Whilst I have stayed outdoors overnight many times in tents and vehicles, I have never done it without permission from the owner or tenant, even when it was dangling on a crag. You are robbing them of pitch fees if you don't.

Someone has been quick off the mark and attached a picture of someone that looks like Boris next to a coffin tent at the cottage on google maps https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.5135567,-5.8613149,183m/data=!3m1!1e3


winter pasture for some of his 700 sheep which spend the summer on the hills.

You're a ' little 'goody two shoes ' then. I didn;t ask permission when we couldn;t find the farmer to ask if we could climb the ladder to the top of a barn for the night . Just got up early , scratched a lot and left. Of course , we didn't 'set off fires ' as you call it !

Looking at the map, I;d suggest Mr Cameron, the farmer , was not in the vicinity to ask and how does anyone know who owns the property and surrounding land. It could be Boris himself or maybe Carrie' s family, as she clearly has Scottish roots. ?

Now be a good lad, take Casper with you and catch up with the rest of the the world, such as 1 million people being starved of food ,medical supplies and denied water, due to Turkey cutting off supplies.. Ooops, maybe noboby has heard about that ; did I spill the beans on the media propoganda machine and how it only works sometimes ?
There's a lot going on out there in the big wide world. How have we all become so obsessive about trivial stuff that the media continue to bait us with ?

Have a nice day.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 8:57am

Originally Posted by granny
[quote=diggingdeeper]Take only photo's, leave only footprints. Big difference from squatting and setting off fires. Apart from which if I think the owner or person responsible is approachable then I ask. On occasions the police have been present and not once have the police asked us to leave the property, even when we have specifically asked if they want us to leave.

I challenge anyone to say they have never trespassed, not many people have squatted.

Whilst the general rule is sheep go on the highlands in summer and lowlands in winter, I don't think being right on the coast classes as winter lowlands?

Whilst I have stayed outdoors overnight many times in tents and vehicles, I have never done it without permission from the owner or tenant, even when it was dangling on a crag. You are robbing them of pitch fees if you don't.

Someone has been quick off the mark and attached a picture of someone that looks like Boris next to a coffin tent at the cottage on google maps https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.5135567,-5.8613149,183m/data=!3m1!1e3


winter pasture for some of his 700 sheep which spend the summer on the hills.

You're a ' little 'goody two shoes ' then. I didn;t ask permission when we couldn;t find the farmer to ask if we could climb the ladder to the top of a barn for the night . Just got up early , scratched a lot and left. Of course , we didn't 'set off fires ' as you call it !

Looking at the map, I;d suggest Mr Cameron, the farmer , was not in the vicinity to ask and how does anyone know who owns the property and surrounding land. It could be Boris himself or maybe Carrie' s family, as she clearly has Scottish roots. ?

Now be a good lad, take Casper with you and catch up with the rest of the the world, such as 1 million people being starved of food ,medical supplies and denied water, due to Turkey cutting off supplies.. Ooops, maybe noboby has heard about that ; did I spill the beans on the media propoganda machine and how it only works sometimes ?
There's a lot going on out there in the big wide world. How have we all become so obsessive about trivial stuff that the media continue to bait us with ?

Have a nice day. [/quote

Yes you are probably right granny, the tent was set up for media attention, most likely for a photo shoot of Boris and his "new" family complete with benny hat sorry beanie hat,sitting around the camp fire singing ging gang gooly a lute may have been more significant whilst sitting around the fire.

The point you made about the camping, really granny, the tent set up by the media, you really are scraping the barrel in defence of a man that has that has no moral compass and so much contempt of others that he has his security team (the ones you say allowed the media to erect said tent a security risk in itself) to erect a tent on someone else's property, but then that's Boris wreck a restaurant and throw some money on the floor, neither the contempt nor the arrogance ever leaves them,

Speaking of media propaganda is a bit pot and kettle don't you think? seeing as they have most of it in their pocket, even some them are being more critical of the circus that purports to be government.

I had little time for Thatcher and her policies but she led from the front, no hiding away from responsibility.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 9:06am

Well granny doesn’t think theft and murder matter so we had to try squatting and arson instead. Seems they don’t matter either.

Forgot to add lies and infidelity.

In fact all the basic morals.

Someone’s got it bad!
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 9:58am

Glad to see you back Granny and firing on all four cylinders ha... Me I think this flaming Corona Virus is driving us all mentally insane and I so wish the world instead of blaming each other and trying to score points against apposing parties would all get together and fight the real enemy , C-19!!!
I’ve stopped watching the news so much now because it’s so depressing and not only us but the whole world is fighting for survival. The media don’t help at all blowing things up for sensationalism and obviously the farmer is not a lover of Boris it’s just so trivial , this is the first I’ve heard of this, OMG a tent erected, earth shattering news , NOT!!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 11:23am

There are non so blind than those that don't wish to see, they are gradually getting wise in the USA, hopefully for them Trump will be removed from office via democracy, if such a thing exists anymore after so long of being in the domain of the rich and powerful, although Trump is fighting hard to outlaw postal voting, and Boris and co are doing similar here with ID required, its called manipulating the system for advantage.

@ cools you say obviously the farmer was not a lover of Boris, why? because he had the audacity to complain about trespass, I like my neighbours, however if one put up a tent on my land I wouldn't be pleased either, lets put the boot on the other foot hypothetically speaking replace Boris with Corbyn, not only would it be in the press but the Tories would making hay, as they did with Abbot and her drink, it appears trivia only applies when Boris is involved
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 1:24pm

Originally Posted by Casper
lets put the boot on the other foot hypothetically speaking replace Boris with Corbyn, not only would it be in the press but the Tories would making hay, as they did with Abbot and her drink, it appears trivia only applies when Boris is involved

You're correct but it is still a non-news story, no matter how it gets painted.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 1:42pm

Originally Posted by casper
There are non so blind than those that don't wish to see, they are gradually getting wise in the USA, hopefully for them Trump will be removed from office via democracy, if such a thing exists anymore after so long of being in the domain of the rich and powerful, although Trump is fighting hard to outlaw postal voting, and Boris and co are doing similar here with ID required, its called manipulating the system for advantage.



Is that right, Casper ? It wouldn't have anything to do with keeping track on all those immigrants you are opposed to and others who are not supposed to be elligible to vote.Or students who swap accomodation every year and move onto another with more or less people registered than the previous year, ore rentals where people fail to change their details quickly enough or even at all. Or the care homes where the residents aren;t capable of putting a cross in a box or even understand what its all about any longer. I know for a fact that my aunt never filled her postal vote when she was in a care home. Who did it for her, I wonder ?

Anyway, Casper, the rich and powerful are here to stay, so you might as well get used to it, whether they be PM's, Presidents, oil tycoons, founders of NGO's, Chairmen of Banks, and energy companies, Lords and Ladies, Footballers, or Meghan Markles of this world.

Now, I don;t want any more arguing from you.

Your quote " There are non so blind than those that don't wish to see" Probably depends on which side of the fence you're sitting, the view is always a bit different..
Trivia appears all the time these days, as headline news ! Mostly ignored by those who see it for what it is. i.e. rubbish, and who prefer to read news that has something important to say !

In this instance, a tent in a field in the middle of nowhere is NOT important but would appear to be a major catastrophe to those who like have something to bicker about.

It would be more beneficial to be talking about the present battle with the EU over fishing or how to stop the asylum seekers heading across the channel ! You know as well as I do, how busy and dangerous those waters are.
As this is a Coronavirus topic, I fail to see how Boris's family holiday managed to creep in.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 1:56pm

Originally Posted by cools
Glad to see you back Granny and firing on all four cylinders ha... Me I think this flaming Corona Virus is driving us all mentally insane and I so wish the world instead of blaming each other and trying to score points against apposing parties would all get together and fight the real enemy , C-19!!!
I’ve stopped watching the news so much now because it’s so depressing and not only us but the whole world is fighting for survival. The media don’t help at all blowing things up for sensationalism and obviously the farmer is not a lover of Boris it’s just so trivial , this is the first I’ve heard of this, OMG a tent erected, earth shattering news , NOT!!


Thanks Cools, always peeking in , but certain times one must intervene. You know how it is. These kids need to be kept under control.
Corovirus is taking control, I believe, and DDs post about murder and theft and arson and a couple of other things.. has passed me bye. Not sure what that garbled message was about.
US girls must stick together, and in a study by Liverpool University.. out of 94 countries that have so far faired better through Covid, 19 of them were run by women !
So , I suppose our students of today have made a point in favour of women.. ( must say it;s another bit of pointless non-news and a total waste of money. You , I and the garden post could have figured that out Cools and maybe Casper, but not sure !)

Mikeeb is in my gang.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Aug 2020 3:28pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
There are non so blind than those that don't wish to see, they are gradually getting wise in the USA, hopefully for them Trump will be removed from office via democracy, if such a thing exists anymore after so long of being in the domain of the rich and powerful, although Trump is fighting hard to outlaw postal voting, and Boris and co are doing similar here with ID required, its called manipulating the system for advantage.



Is that right, Casper ? It wouldn't have anything to do with keeping track on all those immigrants you are opposed to and others who are not supposed to be elligible to vote.Or students who swap accomodation every year and move onto another with more or less people registered than the previous year, ore rentals where people fail to change their details quickly enough or even at all. Or the care homes where the residents aren;t capable of putting a cross in a box or even understand what its all about any longer. I know for a fact that my aunt never filled her postal vote when she was in a care home. Who did it for her, I wonder ?

Anyway, Casper, the rich and powerful are here to stay, so you might as well get used to it, whether they be PM's, Presidents, oil tycoons, founders of NGO's, Chairmen of Banks, and energy companies, Lords and Ladies, Footballers, or Meghan Markles of this world.

Now, I don;t want any more arguing from you.

Your quote " There are non so blind than those that don't wish to see" Probably depends on which side of the fence you're sitting, the view is always a bit different..
Trivia appears all the time these days, as headline news ! Mostly ignored by those who see it for what it is. i.e. rubbish, and who prefer to read news that has something important to say !

In this instance, a tent in a field in the middle of nowhere is NOT important but would appear to be a major catastrophe to those who like have something to bicker about.

It would be more beneficial to be talking about the present battle with the EU over fishing or how to stop the asylum seekers heading across the channel ! You know as well as I do, how busy and dangerous those waters are.
As this is a Coronavirus topic, I fail to see how Boris's family holiday managed to creep in.


Well right again granny, a tent in the middle of nowhere doesn't rate in importance, until of course it is identified with its keeper, renter, hirer, who hasnt been seen for months, who so it is said doesn't like working weekends ( or some might argue weekdays as well ) when as you quite rightly point out we have illegals flooding in from Europe, the fishing rights and brexit to deal with, yet the captain is missing from the bridge, playing wigwams with Carrie and not always in the field, perhaps he has been daydreaming looking across from Dover imagining he is waiting the onslaught of Nazi hordes and the part he would have played from under the blankets.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Sep 2020 1:24pm

Back to coronavirus... I'd be interested in views on this.

Three statements from the gov.uk guidance are listed below. There seems to be a ‘no man’s land’ between 6 people and 30 people meeting indoors or outdoors. My knitting group would like to have a brief, socially distanced chat outdoors but up to a dozen people might turn up; would we have to limit it to two lots of 6, or would we be alright? We are mostly ladies of 'a certain age' so don't want to take risks. The statements seem to be contradictory, if up to 30 can meet.

You can: socialise outdoors in a group of up to 6 people from different households or up to 2 households (anyone in your support bubble counts as one household)

You should: only meet outdoors in a group of no more than 2 households or in a group of up to 6 people from different households

However: It’s against the law for gatherings of more than 30 people to take place in private homes (including gardens and other outdoor spaces), or in a public outdoors space, unless planned by an organisation in compliance with COVID-19 secure guidance.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Sep 2020 4:15pm

Just have some minor exercises to do, to loosen up your knitting arms and then you can call it an approved sport of up to 30 people social distancing https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-return-of-outdoor-sport-and-recreation

EDIT: well that just changed, it specifically mentioned sports and exercise for up to 30 people outdoors, provided they were social distancing.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 7th Sep 2020 5:58pm

Dagnabbit, I thought we might have been onto something there for a moment - ah well, thanks for trying anyway!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Sep 2020 1:51pm

You could call it an illegal rave, the police would attend but just observe, as it appears they don't want to upset anyone, sorry about the sarcasm, but the rules change that often that they have become irrelevant, the casual approach that has encouraged people out and about has now encouraged a disregard for any controls, mainly amongst the young, even some are saying the death rate hasn't rocketed even though the number of cases has risen, but given the young are better equipped physically to deal with it its not surprising, however they will pass it onto the parents and grandparents and vunerable family members and it is them that will pay the price, sorry to say the airy fairy control methods have caused more harm than good.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 8th Sep 2020 3:04pm

Now there's a mental image I can't unsee, Casper!! Better dig out the Ibuprofen, I think... The general confusion over what's allowed and what isn't just doesn't help anyone. The police are overstretched, shop staff are wary of enforcing mask wearing, you can go to the pub but can only meet up to six people outdoors, etc etc. Now the children are back in school and mixing in year bubbles or whatever, if their family groups mix that brings a lot more contacts into the equation. As for those who feel nervous or need to be shielding still, it's going to be a long lonely winter if all this keeps up. As for our lot, we'll just have to keep knitting!
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 9:04am

The difference in schools is that more precautions are being taken than might be in a pub. There's more people wearing masks, staff ensuring distancing, hand gel being used far more.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 9:40am

Originally Posted by Greenwood
Now there's a mental image I can't unsee, Casper!! Better dig out the Ibuprofen, I think... The general confusion over what's allowed and what isn't just doesn't help anyone. The police are overstretched, shop staff are wary of enforcing mask wearing, you can go to the pub but can only meet up to six people outdoors, etc etc. Now the children are back in school and mixing in year bubbles or whatever, if their family groups mix that brings a lot more contacts into the equation. As for those who feel nervous or need to be shielding still, it's going to be a long lonely winter if all this keeps up. As for our lot, we'll just have to keep knitting!



Do you think the children should not be back in school , Greenwood as I'm not sure what you mean about 'their family groups' mixing. Are they family groups of other children you are talking about ?

e.g. Marys family visits Gemmas family for a cup of tea while the children play together .

We know the guidelines, and really it's up to people to follow them. Obviously there are going to be cases that fall through the net, nothing is 100% safe , but with regard to face masks, hand washing, distancing, as mentioned by Gibbo, we as individuals should all be doing that and using our own intergrity to avoid any situation that can put others in jeopardy.

The blasted airlines and tourism sector have done themselves no favours by droning on about all their concerns. Here we are again , heading backwards to planes being grounded, hotels closed, pubs closed,etc.

ANother possible factor if people do not know the guidllines any longer, could be due to the fact that the media channels have overdosed on negativity all along and a huge number of people are no longer watching the media news, and therefore have stuck two fingers up to the seriousness of it all .





Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 10:43am

I think it's very important for children of all ages to be back at school, for a host of reasons; it's up to everyone to accept the possibility of increased risks associated with that and behave accordingly. Your e.g. is what I meant. If Mary and Gemma each have a child in Infants and a child in Juniors, that's four schools involved. We can't all be hermits though, so must take individual responsibility for distancing, handwashing, wearing masks where appropriate.

Newest rules mean my friend can't see both her children, partners and grandson all at once any more, as that adds up to 7, so family get-togethers can't happen - unless there's a different rule for children under 11 or whatever! Clarity over rules is essential, but very hard to achieve, given so many different scenarios, levels of risk etc.
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 11:49am

I remember during lockdown there were loads of kids gathering everywhere. At least if they're in school that's 8 hours of forced distancing in a cleaner environment.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 1:35pm

Yes, better to be in a controlled environment for at least part of the time.
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 1:51pm

All I can say is ... Whoever has / IS created / creating the virus / viruses, Must pay . . . or I fear that God and the aliens is / are gonna smash them Eeeeevil ones ..... like a rotten flea .. That'll be bad for them !

Has the Nanny state become a demented ,quadraplegic, double-incontinent ,euthanasia case ?

Sadly ,I am far too simple to care for answers to all the jibberish; As it is ..... patent 666 , agenda 21 , planet 10 ....and that pschological control !!!
tinfoil formula's galore 12345g fmam being in line with pandemics & therefore mass deaths .... Are the leaders all evil ???

Just dipping my 1 penny worth of thought for the year here .....
2020 has been poo !!!! No likey evil propaganda control freaks and greedy sneaks ....whatsoever
Thankyou
Posted By: GaryFromWirral

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 1:58pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM6ytPFoO48 The people getting angry tease
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 3:39pm

[

We know the guidelines, and really it's up to people to follow them. Obviously there are going to be cases that fall through the net, nothing is 100% safe , but with regard to face masks, hand washing, distancing, as mentioned by Gibbo, we as individuals should all be doing that and using our own intergrity to avoid any situation that can put others in jeopardy.

The blasted airlines and tourism sector have done themselves no favours by droning on about all their concerns. Here we are again , heading backwards to planes being grounded, hotels closed, pubs closed,etc.

ANother possible factor if people do not know the guidllines any longer, could be due to the fact that the media channels have overdosed on negativity all along and a huge number of people are no longer watching the media news, and therefore have stuck two fingers up to the seriousness of it all .





[/quote
As you say nothing is a 100% safe, and it is up to us all to play our part in following the guidelines to keep ourselves and others safe, having said that there is a need to enforce some of the regulations, it has now become obvious that asking certain parts of the community to do so is a waste of time, and sadly taking action to encourage them needs to be the next step, if as we see on the media police crews standing around illegal gatherings doing nothing then it sends out the message to carry on, those that refuse to comply should be challenged, maybe we should start of by publishing figures of prosecutions and fines if there are any, we are well aware the police can't cope, they can't expect to throw the full responsibility of enforcement and monitoring onto the general public that is a function of the state, comments on social; media about the arrest of the guy on the railway suggest a strong bias against the police, apparently we are all sheep and living under tyranny, they have no idea.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 7:49pm

The younger generation just aren’t taking it serious. I’ve spoken to many and it seems to me they really questioning this virus and think it’s some kind of plot to control the masses....it doesn’t exist i hear a lot ..
I’m older generation and i worry about it but even i fleetingly think what the hell is going on? I’ll keep on wearing my mask and social distance etc and hope to God it goes away but I have my doubts, it’s just so surreal.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 9th Sep 2020 9:43pm

The self-entitled generation, "I don't like it so I can do the hell what I want instead". Not helped by a useless Government.

At least 62 schools locked down in the first four days of the schools opening.

Some schools (including Woodchurch High) banned pupils from wearing masks, Woodchurch then had to send an entire year home for self isolation.

Bebington High had two members of staff tested positive, they sent other members of staff home that had been in contact but they ignored kids that had been in contact with the two staff members.

At least three other schools in Wirral have been affected already.

We are now going into a 6-person group lockdown (from 30 people) - but its ok for more than 6 people to be in a pub or restaurant.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Sep 2020 9:06am




Now the children are back at school, it seems that the grandparents will have to impose self- isolation on themselves again. Keep away from the grandkids. The good weather we had when lockdown was being lifted helped a lot.
The winter months are coming and different virus such as coughs, colds and flu,will also enter the classroom, how are they going to be so adamant to know one from another in the first intance ?
I don't think seeing my grandchildren from now on is very sensible, unless we can meet up outdoors somewhere. It's just another 'sentence' that won't be going away soon, so those who can go into 6 person group lockdown are probably more lucky than others.
However , we all still need to be vigilant and we make our choice as to whether we go to a pub or a restaurant. Most pubs and restaurants have made the necessary distancing possible, but I'm not too sure about the likes of door knobs or tables and chairs, in such places .
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Sep 2020 9:29am

Well it looks like all is not lost, there's a new guy in town the covid marshal, who we are told will be able to enforce lockdown rules and issue fines, well that's a new one, a civilian police force with no legal remit, or powers of arrest, I can vision it now, give me your name and address, f..k off and the offender walks away, oh well it sounds good.
Posted By: muzzy2

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Sep 2020 11:02am

DD , you say our government is useless dealing with the virus, but quite honestly, what would YOU do to deal with it? How do you control all the thousands of idiots who don't care or don't believe they will catch it?
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Sep 2020 11:16am

A few days after the start of term my grandson started with a cold. The school sent him home and told my daughter to ring the number for testing. It took hours to get through and when they finally did, the response was - why are you ringing us? he hasn't got any other symptoms. A wasted day, a lot of wasted stress and time - he was back to school the next day. There has to be a judgement call on what's a standard cold and what isn't, or it will descend into chaos. This is just the start; it's going to be a bumpy road. I will continue to see my grandsons, but with distancing, sanitising etc. As for worries about door knobs, tables, chairs etc in pubs and restaurants - just carry sanitiser and use it frequently to be on the safe side.

There are no guarantees that a different government would have handled it better - but I bet they wouldn't have been as bombastic as Boris!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Sep 2020 12:09pm

Originally Posted by muzzy2
DD , you say our government is useless dealing with the virus, but quite honestly, what would YOU do to deal with it? How do you control all the thousands of idiots who don't care or don't believe they will catch it?



The government has bungled this from day one, always one step behind everyone else, too little too late,Italy road blocks police military, New Zealand and Australia police and military, UK police won't intervene unless there is a breach of the peace, illegal raves house parties, street parties,no action the message is loud and clear, do as you please, they actively encouraged us to mix, in the North the figures were still rising, they had levelled in the South, a one size fits all effort given little thought.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 10th Sep 2020 7:56pm

Originally Posted by muzzy2
DD , you say our government is useless dealing with the virus, but quite honestly, what would YOU do to deal with it? How do you control all the thousands of idiots who don't care or don't believe they will catch it?


I would have concentrated on policies to control the virus instead of policies to achieve the least blame - at the end of the day results will always win.

There are experts on people management, use them. The standard patterns are to start hard and alleviate afterwards if required, this self-defensive Government did it the opposite way round, started soft and tried to change to harder, it doesn't work, ask anybody who manages numbers of people (eg teachers, football coaches etc etc).

Instead they have been listening to the likes of Cummings whose expertise is popularity damage limitation and blame control. He's very good at it, he knows when to throw a blatant lie, he knows when to deny, he knows when to bluff etc, but he does not know how to contain a virus as proven numerous times in his own personal life.

Churchill's policies weren't popular but the people followed, as results came in he became a hero. Some of his policies were not required other than to manipulate the country into obedience.

Furthermore the Tories have yet again put the country further in debt than necessary, there were many people that were furloughed that didn't need to be. Its been yet another financial disaster to the UK population brought about by the Tories who want a bipartite state; the rich and the poor.

How many companies had a Government adviser round to help them? None until the virus has gone rampant round a factory. Its been the whole story, do something afterwards instead of before.

The Government are gutless wimps who haven't got the bottle to do something unpopular. How can anyone be told they are not allowed to wear a face mask? Being in a position of power and forcing someone to remove their facemask other than for identification purposes should be a criminal offence in its own right but not under this surreal Government's world.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Sep 2020 8:02am


Clearly the Government have done something 'unpopular' , as all things thay have done are 'unpopluar' with you, DD and Casper. Bless him ! seeyu
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Sep 2020 8:36am



Considering Boris and his most hated friend in the country, who is just someone to blame in the blame game, has got it all wrong, I have to assume that Scotland and Wales have got it all right ???

It seems to me that as soon as Government make an announcement of changes, Scotland and Wales also follow with an announcement of changes, but different changes . Why do they need to ? Is it becuase their numbers are rising too, or is it a way of trying all possible solutions to eradiacte this virus to the best possible outcome.

We don;t know who or what is being discussed behind closed doors and I would suggest the timing of all things seems to coincide with changes made by the devolved parliaments too, along with France, Spain and others . There's a lot of 'Phone a Friend' going on across the globe.
France made masks in public mandatory, French judicial system overturned the ruling !!
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Sep 2020 8:37am

Originally Posted by granny

Clearly the Government have done something 'unpopular' , as all things thay have done are 'unpopluar' with you, DD and Casper. Bless him ! seeyu


Unpopular, that's a bit of an understatement, recycling of old measures and more promises, if they are serious they need to take control, they have not only allowed this virus to take a hold again they have encouraged it, lets see what happens at the football, will it be controlled or will crowds gather and the police will observe again = no consequences no control, the message goes out that its still a free for all to do as you please, whats more surprising is the Tories usually have no qualms about using the police to enforce their will.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Sep 2020 8:38am

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny

Clearly the Government have done something 'unpopular' , as all things thay have done are 'unpopluar' with you, DD and Casper. Bless him ! seeyu


Unpopular, that's a bit of an understatement, recycling of old measures and more promises, if they are serious they need to take control, they have not only allowed this virus to take a hold again they have encouraged it, lets see what happens at the football, will it be controlled or will crowds gather and the police will observe again = no consequences no control, the message goes out that its still a free for all to do as you please, whats more surprising is the Tories usually have no qualms about using the police to enforce their will.



How about Scotland and Wales, with rising cases ?
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Sep 2020 8:57am

Originally Posted by granny
It seems to me that as soon as Government make an announcement of changes, Scotland and Wales also follow with an announcement of changes, but different changes . Why do they need to ? Is it becuase their numbers are rising too, or is it a way of trying all possible solutions to eradiacte this virus to the best possible outcome.


I think its more to do with using the situation as a political football, undermining Boris where they can. Its no secret there's no love lost between him and Sturgeon.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Sep 2020 1:34pm

Originally Posted by Gibbo
Originally Posted by granny
It seems to me that as soon as Government make an announcement of changes, Scotland and Wales also follow with an announcement of changes, but different changes . Why do they need to ? Is it becuase their numbers are rising too, or is it a way of trying all possible solutions to eradiacte this virus to the best possible outcome.


I think its more to do with using the situation as a political football, undermining Boris where they can. Its no secret there's no love lost between him and Sturgeon.


Agreed, no love lost but when it comes to Covid 19 I would have thought personal differences and dislikes would or should have been put to one side.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 11th Sep 2020 5:50pm

Originally Posted by granny

Clearly the Government have done something 'unpopular' , as all things thay have done are 'unpopluar' with you, DD and Casper. Bless him ! seeyu


Doing something unpopular for the wrong reasons is not the same as doing something unpopular for the right reasons.

Even in the middle of all this mess he is ensuring that money is pumped upwards. I can't believe the amount of house building going on as I drive round, most of it on land that you or I would consider green belt or equally as badly on land where there should be jobs. What the heck is the point of building houses without building jobs?

The profit margins on these houses are incredible, cheapo Persimmons house make an average of over £60,000 PROFIT per house. Not only does the buyer give Persimmons over £60,000, the bank then rakes it in as well through the mortgage. Then we had zero homes built under the compulsory affordable homes policy. Where is the free-market when profit margins are that huge? Its just plain robbery and collusion.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 12th Sep 2020 5:32pm

I have just been reading a few articles on how the new covid marshals will operate, patrolling shopping centres, giving advice in public places, railway stations, to ensure that social distancing is observed, masks are worn, monitor queues, make sure hand sanitiser bottles are full and to call police if there is any public disorder, as I pointed out an exercise in futility, they will probably cause more disorder when some people take exception to being asked to comply.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Sep 2020 10:51am

Originally Posted by casper
I have just been reading a few articles on how the new covid marshals will operate, patrolling shopping centres, giving advice in public places, railway stations, to ensure that social distancing is observed, masks are worn, monitor queues, make sure hand sanitiser bottles are full and to call police if there is any public disorder, as I pointed out an exercise in futility, they will probably cause more disorder when some people take exception to being asked to comply.


No different to Community Policing or Litter Police . Only hope they aren't being paid on a target basis for convictions. It will probably be the same people, different badge.

Having seen News report from Liverpool last night, there needs to be something to help stop the idiots. There also needs to be something to stop the persistent culprits who deliberately flout the rules. As inone of my local shops. 2 only..... so 4 cram in. Wear masks, .. most don't. They get away with it, because management say they aren't bothered !!!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Sep 2020 1:29pm

Can anyone explain the difference between:-

Two groups of six people where everybody has to social distance from each other and members can change groups at any time.

AND

Twelve people social distancing from each other.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Sep 2020 1:46pm

The difference presumably lies in which one enables a speedier economic recovery. Because that has always been the priority.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 13th Sep 2020 2:40pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
I have just been reading a few articles on how the new covid marshals will operate, patrolling shopping centres, giving advice in public places, railway stations, to ensure that social distancing is observed, masks are worn, monitor queues, make sure hand sanitiser bottles are full and to call police if there is any public disorder, as I pointed out an exercise in futility, they will probably cause more disorder when some people take exception to being asked to comply.


No different to Community Policing or Litter Police . Only hope they aren't being paid on a target basis for convictions. It will probably be the same people, different badge.

Having seen News report from Liverpool last night, there needs to be something to help stop the idiots. There also needs to be something to stop the persistent culprits who deliberately flout the rules. As inone of my local shops. 2 only..... so 4 cram in. Wear masks, .. most don't. They get away with it, because management say they aren't bothered !!!


Well the difference is that as far as I know covid marshals have no legal remit, they can't issue fines or warnings and can only advise, on the use of masks and distancing washing hands etc, otherwise they have to call the police, so no different than a shopkeeper really.

I am also fed up of people blatantly ignoring the rules, they actually seem to take some kind of delight from it, I posted in the old covid thread about a visit to the supermarket, this really annoyed me, got out of the car and started walking toward the store a young lady also doing the same,as she neared the store she stopped and looked in her bag and then closed it, me thinking she had forgotten her mask offered her one( I carry them in the car) well I called her a young lady, maybe that is debatable, the response was fook off and mind your own business, unbelievable how rude and aggressive the young seem to be, and for what reason?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Sep 2020 7:06am

Originally Posted by casper


Well the difference is that as far as I know covid marshals have no legal remit, they can't issue fines or warnings and can only advise, on the use of masks and distancing washing hands etc, otherwise they have to call the police, so no different than a shopkeeper really.

I am also fed up of people blatantly ignoring the rules, they actually seem to take some kind of delight from it, I posted in the old covid thread about a visit to the supermarket, this really annoyed me, got out of the car and started walking toward the store a young lady also doing the same,as she neared the store she stopped and looked in her bag and then closed it, me thinking she had forgotten her mask offered her one( I carry them in the car) well I called her a young lady, maybe that is debatable, the response was fook off and mind your own business, unbelievable how rude and aggressive the young seem to be, and for what reason?


You can say that again.. Maybe they ALL take character enhanacers, most do these days it's stamped all over them , like a trademark. ! They can't see it but others can. They didn't listen to those warnings either.

Beggers belief when people are still referring to this virus as a conspiracy.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 14th Sep 2020 9:35pm

Despite being an "area of concern", there were no Covid test appointments available in Merseyside today, the nearest was 250 miles away.

There has been an ongoing problem with the supply of test kits for some time now, many test centres have not been able to take any appointments.

So the ramp up to the promised 10 million tests a day isn't off to a good start, not that the figure is anything other than a pipe dream.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 8:03am



Is that because the two NEW test centres are over run with people who just queueing rather than making an appointment.

They can queue , as they are WALK IN TEST CENTRES.. therefore, to make an appointment could well take you 250 miles away. Why don;t they go to the WALK IN CENTRES ?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 10:14am

Appointment only at six Wirral test centres. I’ll let you count the rest of the appointment only centres in Merseyside an Cheshire. None of which were available.

I’m not aware of any unrestricted walk in test centres that are open.to the general public “Drive through” doesn’t mean you don’t need an appointment.
Posted By: Salmon

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 11:01am

Calling them walk in centres is totally wrong and misleading. Anyone who turns up without an appointment will be turned away.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 11:16am



What does this mean then ?

https://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/18705749.second-local-covid-test-site-opening-bromborough/

Users will be asked to self-swab when attending. LTS appointments can be booked at www.nhs.uk/coronavirus or by calling 119. Alternatively, you can attend without an appointment.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 11:20am


Walk Through :

https://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/...esting-site-opening-birkenhead-tomorrow/
Posted By: Salmon

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 11:32am

It says specifically on here that appointments must be made. This is dated 11th so later than the link you sent Granny. Changing presumably because the demand is so great.
https://www.wirral.gov.uk/health-an...vid-19-testing-wirral-key-workers#wgSM-0
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 12:21pm

As far as I am aware the Wirral and Liverpool test sites have never been walk-in for the general public, some specific groups may have been allowed to walk-in.

But if they have run out of test kits as many centres have, it wouldn't make any difference if it is appointment, walk-in or drive through. Usual incompetence by this Government https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-15/test-and-trace-system-must-be-fit-for-purpose-government-warned The implication of that is the NHS hasn't even got enough test kits to test its own staff!
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 4:36pm



Thanks Salmon, and DD.

Another major probelm is the laboratories not having enough qualified staff to handle the volume of tests. Maybe at present they should confine the testing only to people who are showing symptoms . ( apart from the front line staff etc. )

Its a tricky one due to symptoms taking so long to show up inn many cases.

I wouldn't know what the answer is, but Spain would appear to be over run in their hospitals again. Almost at full capacity.. I really believe that foreign holidays should not have been allowed this summer, but too late and we need to concentrate again on the next few weeks.

Just take care, do the right things (as advised) and hopefully the dreaded second wave might not happen or become as bad as the first .
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 15th Sep 2020 5:17pm

I'm glad to see that those that are supposed to be in self-isolation after visiting Spain are being checked up on.

I still don't see how holidays abroad meet the requirement of "essential travel", an aircraft is the highest risk environment for spreading anything.

Test and trace formally started yesterday, if you go in the same establishment as someone that tested positive you can get told to lockdown, regardless if both of you were wearing masks and you didn't come within sneezing distance of each other.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 8:56am


Just listened to Ursula Von Der Leyen's speech. She spoke extremely well, for about an hour and a bit. Can';t say I can see the end product of all she laid out being accomplished or even if things will change so much. She (in my view) contradicted herself. Issue being free speech and each individual is an indivudual with their own ideas. Then it changed to not being allowed free speech on certain issues. think
She's not happy with UK

One thing she did say on the subject of Covid, which actually depicted how vulnerable the human race is , the repercussions and that none in Europe, the world, had emergency funding to manage such a unknnown pandemic, or funding allocated to develop a vaccine.

She referred to ' A virus smaller than a grain of sand and how it has shown our vulnerablitiy '

How true, and the enormity of the situtation was explained in that one sentence.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 9:11am



Oh yes, and she wants a stronger European Health System...... which was always in the pipeline. Now we won't have to be part of it.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 11:07am

I have just got back from Portugal last night and the shit has hit the fan again. All was fine a few days ago. They have now brought in new rules of pubs and restaurants closing at 11pm and supermarkets cannot sell alcohol.
Unfortunately, I dropped a bollock driving back from Portugal thinking I could transit through Spain without stopping. I drove right to the ferry at Santander without stopping so thought I would be OK, which I have only found out today is a 'transit stop' idiot
Originally Posted by Gov.uk
You’ll still need to self-isolate if you’ve visited or made a ‘transit stop’ in the previous 14 days in any country that is not on the list. A ‘transit stop’ is a stop where passengers can get on or off a coach, ferry, train or plane. Your ticket should say if a stop is a transit stop.

The 14 days begin from the date you left that country.

On a side note, driving around Portugal is a dream and I highly recommend going along the border with Spain up to Northern Portugal, the views from the mountains are stunning.

Now back in Blighty, things were not this bad 2 weeks ago. Sadly I think we will be dealing with this for a very long time.
This max of 6 in a group is also confusing, yet you can still go the pub or a restaurant.

Regarding the walk in test centres.
Originally Posted by A council spokesperson said:
"LTS are self-testing centres staffed by private contractors and are a walk-through facility. People will need to walk or cycle to the testing site. They should not use public transport and should wear a face covering while travelling.

From todays Globe.
https://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/18724166.coronanvirus-local-testing-site-opening-liscard-today/

This is a whole world problem, and our Government is not at fault. They need to think out of the box because every country is suffering and making mistakes.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 12:19pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
our Government is not at fault


Out Government has had 4-6 months to get this sorted out. They have the means to predict trends and demand. What exactly have they been doing instead? Shooting Grouse?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 12:31pm

Just been shopping again in New Brighton, mask wearers seem to be in the minority visited Home Bargains again, it seems to attract the non mask wearers, usually in groups, so much for asking people to go the extra mile and ensure they follow the guidelines, this will carry on because it is allowed to, maybe the best way to get some compliance would be to concentrate on a single shopping area and start issuing warnings and fines and turning people away if need be, is it really such a task to wear a mask and follow some simple instructions?
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 1:22pm

Originally Posted by MisterSmiff
Originally Posted by mikeeb
our Government is not at fault


Out Government has had 4-6 months to get this sorted out. They have the means to predict trends and demand. What exactly have they been doing instead? Shooting Grouse?

Well it looks like the whole world is shooting grouse with them doesn't it?
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 1:31pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by MisterSmiff
Originally Posted by mikeeb
our Government is not at fault


Out Government has had 4-6 months to get this sorted out. They have the means to predict trends and demand. What exactly have they been doing instead? Shooting Grouse?

Well it looks like the whole world is shooting grouse with them doesn't it?


I'm not paying taxes to other world governments to fix their problems, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't use such tactics to excuse what ours is [not] doing.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 2:13pm

Originally Posted by MisterSmiff
I'm not paying taxes to other world governments to fix their problems, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't use such tactics to excuse what ours is [not] doing.

Just because you pay taxes to our Government doesn't mean they can pull a rabbit out of a hat and solve the problem the whole world is dealing with.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 2:19pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by MisterSmiff
I'm not paying taxes to other world governments to fix their problems, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't use such tactics to excuse what ours is [not] doing.

Just because you pay taxes to our Government doesn't mean they can pull a rabbit out of a hat and solve the problem the whole world is dealing with.


I'm not expecting them to work magic, I'm expecting them to provide adequate testing capacity - something that they have had several months to do. They would rather lie about that capacity being in place and accuse those who have experienced the reality of being liars. Again, stop making excuses for them. The Government and its Health agencies need to get this sorted with the time, money, expertise and information that they boast of having. Because I and my colleagues are not looking forward to having to deal with this on our own again while everyone claps.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 3:48pm

Originally Posted by MisterSmiff
I'm not expecting them to work magic, I'm expecting them to provide adequate testing capacity - something that they have had several months to do. They would rather lie about that capacity being in place and accuse those who have experienced the reality of being liars. Again, stop making excuses for them. The Government and its Health agencies need to get this sorted with the time, money, expertise and information that they boast of having. Because I and my colleagues are not looking forward to having to deal with this on our own again while everyone claps.

All governments are liars so don't think I am making excuses for them.
You are not the only one in the boat you know, too many people have lost everything.
What is happening now is unprecedented but hey-ho, lets expect our Government to perform some magic with that cliche 'this isn't what I pay my taxes for'.
Everyone needs something now and our Government can't cope with it.
And another thing, I don't even like the Tories, they were just the best option over Labour.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 4:10pm

Calling something the Government has had months to do (and I am getting tired of repeating this point) is not "magic". We were promised a functioning Test and Trace system back in May. The NHS needed this to be working already, but it isn't. Now we're picking up the slack with our own Labs - why weren't these expanded in the first place instead of trying to sidestep them?

The Research department where I work already anticipated months ago the current sharp rise in cases (I posted as much earlier in this thread). We use this data to anticipate demand and manage capacity accordingly. The Government surely had similar data and instead chose to sit on it. We're looking at a worse situation than we have already had, and it is appropriate to blame those who could have done something about it.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 4:21pm

Get in the queue behind Casper and DD grin
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 4:21pm

Originally Posted by MisterSmiff
Calling something the Government has had months to do (and I am getting tired of repeating this point) is not "magic".


Its much worse than that, we had reserves of money and equipment for flu epidemics/pandemics and procedures in place, these have systematically been removed.
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 16th Sep 2020 6:49pm

Oh the PPI situation is definitely a cause of discontent at my place. Our Clinical Facilitators set aside several hours a week to Fit Test as many Staff as possible for the current array of FFP3 masks that we have. This selection is changing constantly because the supply chain can't seem to secure a constant supply of any particular mask, and we need to re-test people who have previously passed on a mask that has run out. We're constantly re-doing things and retreading old ground when a solid procurement and stockpile plan from NHS England / Public Health England should have mitigated the need for most of this.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 17th Sep 2020 6:31pm

Think we’ll be going into another lockdown soon ..
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Sep 2020 11:31am

From midnight tonight, different households in the Liverpool City Region will not be allowed to mingle unless part of a "support bubble", and pubs and restaurants will have a 10pm-5am curfew imposed. Public transport will once again be restricted to essential travel only. Rumour has it that a nationwide lockdown could follow next week.

EDIT: Some sources say "midnight tonight", but the BBC reports "next Tuesday": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54194804
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Sep 2020 12:22pm

Originally Posted by BBC
Late night operating hours will be restricted, with leisure and entertainment venues including restaurants, pubs, and cinemas, required to close between 22:00 BST to 05:00.

Does this mean they can open again at 06:00?
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Sep 2020 12:39pm

Originally Posted by mikeeb
Originally Posted by BBC
Late night operating hours will be restricted, with leisure and entertainment venues including restaurants, pubs, and cinemas, required to close between 22:00 BST to 05:00.

Does this mean they can open again at 06:00?


I think this will only really affect Anna's Bar on Argyle Street, which often seems to have extremely refreshed patrons still outside it around that time
Posted By: keef666

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Sep 2020 3:10pm

There was a time when you sat and watched to news, it was stuffed down your throat, "Today another 1,000 people have the virus bringing the total to 20,000 21,000 etc etc and also how many people were dead" These days its 1,000 people have it since yesterday, its not giving us a total figure, out of the 300,000 back in May/June how many still have it/recovered/died ?
Its all Cry wolf, most people are sticking to the guidelines and even the ones who aren't are still won't catch it, more people are dying of flu each day,
Posted By: MisterSmiff

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Sep 2020 3:32pm

Flu is seasonal though, COVID is still quite new, and we'll soon have to deal with both. Please don't pooh-pooh the efforts of everyone trying to get on top of this by making trivial comparisons like that.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 18th Sep 2020 6:48pm

Originally Posted by keef666
There was a time when you sat and watched to news, it was stuffed down your throat, "Today another 1,000 people have the virus bringing the total to 20,000 21,000 etc etc and also how many people were dead" These days its 1,000 people have it since yesterday, its not giving us a total figure, out of the 300,000 back in May/June how many still have it/recovered/died ?
Its all Cry wolf, most people are sticking to the guidelines and even the ones who aren't are still won't catch it, more people are dying of flu each day,


Its far from cry wolf, we have already seen a 5,000 plus reduction in official figures due to the way the figures have been manipulated, I don't know where you make your observations, but I can tell you what I have seen the results are there are people that follow the rules and there are those that don't, those that don't are becoming more obvious and blatant by the day and that will carry on until action is taken to enforce some sort of control, it is apparent that asking for responsibility and goodwill doesn't work, there is also a growing belief certainly among the young that covid is a hoax designed to gain control of the masses and prevent them from enjoying themselves, perhaps if the cast of TOWIE made a broadcast stating it is real they would all believe it.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Sep 2020 2:10am

You only have to go in the majority of supermarkets to find out less than 50% of people are following the guidelines.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Sep 2020 11:03am

Matt Hancock on defending the lack of testing, " the way I see it as an economist if you make something free it will be abused" silly me I thought we paid for it through taxes and national insurance, perhaps instead of watching the costing he should concentrate on his own job as"health secretary" one that he has failed in so miserably.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 19th Sep 2020 10:44pm



Now we know humans can transmit it to wild animals, I wonder if it can go one step further to domesticated animals ?


......................

COVID-19 CASES IN ANIMALS. Since April 4, the US Department of Agriculture has confirmed cases of the virus causing COVID-19 in 46 animals, including captive wild animals such as tigers, lions and mink.
In almost all cases, the animals were exposed to humans who had probable or confirmed COVID-19.
In April, tigers and lions at Bronx Zoo were found to have the illness from an asymptomatic keeper, and a number of cases of transmission to mink, many of whom died from the disease, were recorded on fur farms in Utah in August.
This followed warnings from the Netherlands where a wave of infections in mink fur farms is reportedly leading to the early implementation of mink fur farm closures in the country.
These cases highlight the risks of keeping wild animals in captivity and in close contact with humans.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Sep 2020 9:58am

Yes, both domestic cats and dogs. This was known about before it hit our shores. Unlike humans, CV rarely kills animals.
Posted By: rhoobarb2002

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Sep 2020 12:54pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
You only have to go in the majority of supermarkets to find out less than 50% of people are following the guidelines.


Go to a school playground at pickup time and you will see it's closer to more than 80% not following guidelines. All the gaggles and cliques acting like nothing has changed. And people then wonder why we are going into a local semi-lockdown again.

I'm guessing that's why the recent parentmail to all schools saying you must wear a mask now.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Sep 2020 7:53pm

We are at tipping point for a national lockdown, Matt Hancock says...Another lockdown would be disastrous for the country which lets face it is on its knees, but is slowly improving. Unfortunately the virus rate is rising alarmingly and somethings got to happen. I feel there is now a lot of resentment towards the older generation by the younger ones who will not abide by the rules and are not so susceptible to the virus as us oldies...I’ve been listening most of the day to LBC radio and what I’m getting is that the majority do not want a lockdown and older people and vulnerable should be the ones to go into lockdown and let everybody else take their chances.
I’m one of these oldies and was quite maddened by this but the more I think about it maybe that should happen , I would hate it and be miserable but if it helped the situation and wasn’t for too long well bite the bullet and get on with it . The country can’t keep going into lockdown else the economy will never recover.
What do others think about this , I know it will be unpopular....
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Sep 2020 9:54pm


My view is that everyone should be responsible for their own actions to help their family and friends, neighbours and work colleagues. , as I doubt the country will survive another lockdown, particulalry if people start demanding more furlough schemes, that at present I think are due to end in October . The prats just couldn;t wait to get back in the pubs, spend all the money they;ve saved and party as much as possible. Narrow minded prats. I'm furious about all of this , really furious with the blatant arrogance of so many.

Maybe the threat of furlough schemes not being introduced again, might make those who are in denial, sit up and think seriously what they would do if there is another lockdown without any financial support.

I am of the opinion that the older members of society can re-impose lockdown on themsleves if they so wish, and I doubt it would be of little hardship, as most don't seem to have moved on from it yet anyway. It's not the oldies who are transmitting this virus.
Once the vulnerable children start getting it, the prats might think differently, as it seems to have mutated into more than one strain. Maybe it's changing all the time.

As from Tuesday, my only relief of seeing my grandchildren again, will be knocked on the head once more. Haven't done much else since March anyway, apart from shopping.

I really can;t understand how there are so many, including coaches from Liverpool going to Trafalgar Square for yesterdays protests, and how they think it's a conspiracy !! They are absolutely mental. The same protests have been in European countries too, in particular Germany and France that I know of.

Maybe the deniers should be asked to help out cleaning in the Covid wards so the NHS can save on PPE.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 21st Sep 2020 7:38am



Chris Whitty holding a TV briefing at 11.00 am.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54229845
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Sep 2020 11:25am

I see grandparents are being allowed on the front line to babysit, and those that where told to return to work even though it wasn't necessary must now work from home if they can, best policy to save any misunderstanding is to say if you are earning or spending money carry on, the PM will make a guest appearance on TV tonight to address the nation after having intense lessons on how to keep one straight face and look serious the other face will lapse into meaningless babble interspersed with spittle and hand waving when he loses his place on the idiot sheet.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 22nd Sep 2020 2:58pm

Usual confusion and incompetence from the Government, first sentence from their current guidance .....

"You can now exercise alone, with up to 5 other people from outside your household"

Equally mad is the subtitle it is immediately under ....

"What we’re doing"

Source:- https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-return-of-outdoor-sport-and-recreation
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Sep 2020 9:30am


Certain routines of exercise involves two people. Giving clear guidelines, is not wrong !

Whatever individual opinions are directed at Boris, we have a problem. Problem solving was always difficult.. but considering the man nearly died from Covid, I am quite sure he is well aware what the impact could be for others if all measures are not followed . To change direction along the route to a final solution is something we should all take on board if we want a (hopefully )successful outcome, and stop critisizing every inch of the way.

Face mask to be worn by staff in all retail outlets.
Face masks to be worn by taxi drivers..

Already , the moans and the groans have started. FFS !
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Sep 2020 9:56am



.Wirral Leisure Centre..... outside, on your own, group of 6.

Attached picture 119954372_3987955911231255_3493707310783504835_o.jpg
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Sep 2020 6:23pm

[quote=granny]
Certain routines of exercise involves two people. Giving clear guidelines, is not wrong !

Whatever individual opinions are directed at Boris, we have a problem. Problem solving was always difficult.. but considering the man nearly died from Covid, I am quite sure he is well aware what the impact could be for others if all measures are not followed . To change direction along the route to a final solution is something we should all take on board if we want a (hopefully )successful outcome, and stop critisizing every inch of the way.

Face mask to be worn by staff in all retail outlets.
Face masks to be worn by taxi drivers..

Already , the moans and the groans have started. FFS ! [/quot

To change direction, Mmm that suggests we had a viable direction, up to now the government have been firefighting, they were advised early on about testing yet they dithered then they promised millions of tests, that went well, we are going to police it they have told us,the promised marshals have heard nothing about their applications, local government want to know who will pay for them, the police say the law is difficult to enforce, Boris tells the fines have been increased and we will get more police and maybe military assistance, no urgency no clarity, the police federation rep said if officers stop someone for not wearing a mask and that person says he is exempt then there is nothing they can do, so yes we have a problem, if the police can't control people breaking the law then I don't see how we can hope to control the virus while trying to keep the economy running, perhaps they could label all non mask wearers as pickets and strikers, then they could use their batons and haul them all off in vans to special courts.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 23rd Sep 2020 9:20pm



Not sure who you are defending here Casper. Is it the clowns who refuse to wear a mask, or maybe you prefer to bring in the army and have martial law ? Alternatively have a full lockdown and wreck jobs and businesses ?


WHAT exactly do you want anyone to do ??? Give us some ideas,, it might be helpful.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 9:27am

Perhaps the sarcasm confused you a bit granny, yes I want people to wear masks and wash their hands and follow the advice given albeit if some what confusing, if everyone complies then people can move about to a safer degree and carry out their daily tasks whether it be working or shopping etc,and continue to fuel the economy, however there is a hard core that are refusing to comply allegedly because it is their human right, so what should we do allow them to carry on ? Boris tells us the police will enforce the law, the police say the law is unclear ( lets be very clear the police have trouble enforcing anything, due to depleted numbers, I wonder who cut their numbers and closed police stations?) so we are at a stage when a decision needs to be made, peoples wellbeing and the economy or misguided human rights, at the minute there are still numbers of people ignoring the advice because they are allowed to, as I mentioned in the last post the Tories throughout history have had no qualms about using the state to smash trade unionists and trampling on peoples human rights before, whats different now?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 10:14am



This was a favourite poem of ChrisKay.. It seems to be an analogy to be used many times and I think it applies today also.

The Road Not Taken
By Robert Frost
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 10:57am

A bit deep granny, this poem can be interpreted in many ways, one could mean a decision taken years ago could affect what happens today, true of the Conservative party,they have abused their position to benefit certain parts of society at a cost to the majority for decades, now they want the majority to believe them, the seeds of mistrust are beginning to grow, Boris doesn't want to police anything, because it will make him unpopular (if thats possible) hail fellow well met, man of the people. raftl
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 2:16pm

Originally Posted by granny
Certain routines of exercise involves two people. Giving clear guidelines, is not wrong !


But it is contradictory, you can't be "alone" at the same time as being with others.

Either of the following two sentences make sense ..

"You can now exercise alone or with up to 5 other people from outside your household"

"You can now exercise with up to 5 other people from outside your household"

But the original sentence is nonsense.

"You can now exercise alone, with up to 5 other people from outside your household".

Anyway, I don't think any of these apply to us now, the rules have changed.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 8:02pm

Originally Posted by casper
A bit deep granny, this poem can be interpreted in many ways, one could mean a decision taken years ago could affect what happens today, true of the Conservative party,they have abused their position to benefit certain parts of society at a cost to the majority for decades, now they want the majority to believe them, the seeds of mistrust are beginning to grow, Boris doesn't want to police anything, because it will make him unpopular (if thats possible) hail fellow well met, man of the people. raftl



It can be interpreted differently, and depending on which path taken no one would know about the other path. If we look at history and the flu epidemic of 1918...


quote "The disease spread like wildfire in crowded troop transports and munitions factories, and on buses and trains, according to a 1919 report by Sir Arthur Newsholme for the Royal Society of Medicine.


But a "memorandum for public use" he had written in July 1918, that advised people to stay at home if they were sick and to avoid large gatherings, was buried by the government.


Sir Arthur argued that many lives could have been saved if these rules had been followed, but he added:
"There are national circumstances in which the major duty is to 'carry on', even when risk to health and life is involved." unquote
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 8:06pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
Certain routines of exercise involves two people. Giving clear guidelines, is not wrong !


But it is contradictory, you can't be "alone" at the same time as being with others.

Either of the following two sentences make sense ..

"You can now exercise alone or with up to 5 other people from outside your household"

"You can now exercise with up to 5 other people from outside your household"

But the original sentence is nonsense.

"You can now exercise alone, with up to 5 other people from outside your household".

Anyway, I don't think any of these apply to us now, the rules have changed.


Clearly, the clarity is cloudy, but it is referring to outdoor sports and recreation.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 8:08pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
[quote=granny]Certain routines of exercise involves two people. Giving clear guidelines, is not wrong !


But it is contradictory, you can't be "alone" at the same time as being with others.

Either of the following two sentences make sense ..

"You can now exercise alone or with up to 5 other people from outside your household"

"You can now exercise with up to 5 other people from outside your household"

But the original sentence is nonsense.

"You can now exercise alone, with up to 5 other people from outside your household".

Anyway, I don't think any of these apply to us now, the rules have changed.


Clearly, the wording isn't great if taken as a personal instruction , but it is referring to outdoor sports and recreation.
not you or I who might like to practice a bit of pole vaulting together.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 8:09pm


Italy's schools on strike due to lack of safety measures. So are the pupils.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 24th Sep 2020 9:12pm



Oooops ! New deaths in USA in last 24 hours. 666
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Sep 2020 7:44am



Oooops ! New deaths in USA in last 24 hours. 666 [/quote]

I think someone's trying to tell them something.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Sep 2020 7:59am



I thought so, Casper but then the figure went up to just under 1,000.

However, good things come out of bad situations, and Netherlands are bringing forward their phase out of fur farms from Jan 20204 to March 2021. Due to Covid being found in a third of the countries 120 plus fur farms !

Just off for a pole vault, outside , on my own . Catch you later.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Sep 2020 9:22am

Does anyone know any of the restrictions on travel to Saudi Arabia ?

Just wondering if there are any. Plenty of flights being advertised but from 4th October it is of course the start of Umra pilgimages, and this year a limited number of 6000 Saudi people can take part each day. Pilgrims from countries deemed safe will be permitted from 1 November, when the daily capacity will rise to 20,000.

How many people that would amount to in accommodation and other places of interest, is hardly possible to guess.

Official figures of deaths in Saudi Arabia seem to be low in comparison with 4,500, but people travelling from all over the world must be a major issue.

That is one thing that will keep this virus going around and around and it's not acceptible.

If travel to such is allowed, then basically, we should be allowed to have in this country Church services and Weddings without the restrictions imposed.Otherwise it's contradictory allowing people to fly out to engage in such pilgrimages and restrictions not imposed through fear of being seen as opposed to the ethnic minorities and their customs.

Saying 14 days self isolation on return means nothing when dealing with large family . The virus could extend above and beyond, to children, schools, and work places in the communtities that already have higher rates of infection.

Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Sep 2020 9:47am

Entry to Saudi Arabia on a tourist visa from significantly affected countries has been temporarily suspended.

Entry to Saudi Arabia for the purpose of Umrah has also been temporarily suspended.

From the Saudi website

Dear SAUDIA Guest,

If you are flying to The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, you are kindly requested by health authorities in Saudi Arabia to follow health guidance below to keep you protected when you travel with SAUDIA.

1. GCC citizens guests and Holders of valid visa (exit/entry, business, residence {Iqamah}, and visit) allowed to travel from and into The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
2. Travelling with ID has been temporarily suspended for GCC citizens.
3. All arriving guests (except Saudi citizens) and for all ages, must provide negative PCR test certificate issued from a verified laboratory within 48 hours from the time the test is undertaken until the time on which the passenger is arriving in the Kingdom. Guests who did not provide the certificate will be denied from boarding the airplane.
4. Above points not applied on countries that suspended from traveling to/from the kingdom in order to prevent the spread of COVID-19 as decided by the competent committee as a result of COVID-19 outbreak in these countries.
5. All guests must fill out and sign Health Disclaimer Form below then hand it over to health control center upon arrival at airport.
6. All guests will undergo 2-days self-quarantine at home after arriving to the kingdom, then take PCR test by the end of period. If PCR test not conducted, self-quarantine at home continues for 7 days.
7. All guests must download and register on Tatamman and Tawakkalna Applications.
8. Guests must assign home location Through Tatamman app within 8 hours of arrival.
9. Guests most monitor COVID-19 symptoms, and immediately call 937 if any symptoms appeared or go to primary healthcare center or emergency if necessary.
10. Guests must do daily health assessment in Tatamman app.
11. Guests must follow precautionary procedures during self-quarantine at home as stated in the Health Disclaimer Form.

Source https://www.saudia.com/before-flyin...l-requirements-by-international-stations
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Sep 2020 10:33am



If you look at the top of the link you posted Mikeeb, there's a roller thing which gives Advisory Notes on updates for Airports in UK and elsewhere .

According to BBC, Saudi are in the process of resuming pilgrimages, for anyone after 1 November if countries are deemed to be safe...... What does 'safe' mean exactly ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-54263359
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Sep 2020 10:49am

That roller only shows terminal 2 at Manchester and Heathrow airports.

BBC link: "Pilgrims from countries deemed safe will be permitted from 1 November, when the daily capacity will rise to 20,000."
There will be an influx of people already booking for that date now.

"The arrival of Umra performers and visitors from outside the kingdom shall be gradual from the countries that are free from health risks related to the coronavirus pandemic,"
So does that mean from countries that have no cases of covid?
I doubt it.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 25th Sep 2020 6:39pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
A bit deep granny, this poem can be interpreted in many ways, one could mean a decision taken years ago could affect what happens today, true of the Conservative party,they have abused their position to benefit certain parts of society at a cost to the majority for decades, now they want the majority to believe them, the seeds of mistrust are beginning to grow, Boris doesn't want to police anything, because it will make him unpopular (if thats possible) hail fellow well met, man of the people. raftl



It can be interpreted differently, and depending on which path taken no one would know about the other path. If we look at history and the flu epidemic of 1918...


quote "The disease spread like wildfire in crowded troop transports and munitions factories, and on buses and trains, according to a 1919 report by Sir Arthur Newsholme for the Royal Society of Medicine.


But a "memorandum for public use" he had written in July 1918, that advised people to stay at home if they were sick and to avoid large gatherings, was buried by the government.


Sir Arthur argued that many lives could have been saved if these rules had been followed, but he added:
"There are national circumstances in which the major duty is to 'carry on', even when risk to health and life is involved." unquote





A very interesting read, especially the last paragraph.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Oct 2020 12:17pm

More confusion. I had a grip of it, but this week it's all too much for me at least. Add to that, Wirral.gov website is still the same as yesterday. Howeever, as most Council employees don;t work weekends, will it be updated if there are any to be listed ?

Whether or not it's the way the BBC actually paragraph the 'rules' but does this rule of 'not to travel ' apply to us in Wirral and does it mean e.g we can't go on holiday to the Lake District because we pass through other Lancashire towns ? Or is that 'should NOT travel' applying only to Burnley and Lancashire wide ones ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-54399271


Announcing the latest restrictions, Mr Hancock told the House of Commons "cases continue to rise fast" in Teesside and the north-west of England.

Knowsley, an area in the Liverpool City Region, had the second highest infection rate in the country at 262 per 100,000 on 27 September. Liverpool's weekly infection rate rose to 258, Warrington's was 163 and Hartlepool and Middlesbrough both had 121 cases per 100,000 people.

Burnley, where no further restrictions are yet to be imposed beyond the Lancashire-wide ones already introduced, has the highest infection rate in England at 327 per 100,000.

Mr Hancock also "recommended against all social mixing between households", but said he wanted the restrictions to stay in place for "as short a time as possible".

People in those areas should also:

Not attend professional or amateur sports events as spectators
Only visit care homes in exceptional circumstances
People should not travel unless it is essential - for example to school and work
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Oct 2020 2:12pm

The travel guidance for the whole of England for many months has been "essential travel only", nothing has changed.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Oct 2020 3:38pm



Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The travel guidance for the whole of England for many months has been "essential travel only", nothing has changed.



How have people been allowed to go on holiday, from one end of the country to the other, where hotels and accomodation have been opened, including National Trust cottages for hire. ?
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Oct 2020 5:14pm

Got a bit confused myself, re Liverpool City region and Merseyside, must be a difference somewhere, confused.com. confused
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Oct 2020 7:44pm

Originally Posted by granny


Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The travel guidance for the whole of England for many months has been "essential travel only", nothing has changed.



How have people been allowed to go on holiday, from one end of the country to the other, where hotels and accomodation have been opened, including National Trust cottages for hire. ?


Because it is guidance not law. There are very few rules and loads of guidance. Its like the highway code, they use the words "should" and "must".
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Oct 2020 7:58pm

Originally Posted by casper
Got a bit confused myself, re Liverpool City region and Merseyside, must be a difference somewhere, confused.com. confused


LCR = Merseyside + Halton

Halton = Hale + Runcorn + Widnes

This leaves the future problem of what would happen to the town of Warrington which borders Halton, will Warrington become part of Greater Manchester City Region, Liverpool City Region or make West Cheshire into Chester City Region and include Warrington?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 3rd Oct 2020 11:19pm



Latest figures tonight for Wirral are worrying .

Wirral
151 cases per 100,000 people in the latest week 23 Sep-29 Sep. The average area in England had 28.

441 coronavirus-related deaths registered to 18 Sep
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 4th Oct 2020 9:42am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
This leaves the future problem of what would happen to the town of Warrington which borders Halton, will Warrington become part of Greater Manchester City Region, Liverpool City Region or make West Cheshire into Chester City Region and include Warrington?

Warrington is part of Cheshire. What makes you wonder that may change?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Nov 2020 8:16am


According to BBC latest statistics.

Wirral

171 cases per 100,000 people in the latest week 9 Nov-15 Nov. The average area in England had 216.

553
cases in the latest week 9 Nov-15 Nov

-142
compared with the previous week

9,578
total cases to 19 Nov

498 coronavirus-related deaths registered to 30 Oct


Not very sure about all the differnt hype about the various vaccines.

N.B Last night it was indicated that first in line will be Care Workers and Care Home Residents. Not sure about the Care Home Residents being first . The House of Lords should be the first , followed by anyone in the Commons over 65 yrs of age.

Let them be the guinea pigs .
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Nov 2020 8:30am

Your not turning into an unbeliever are you granny?
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Nov 2020 9:05am

Originally Posted by casper
Your not turning into an unbeliever are you granny?


I'm not blinkered, Casper. That's the difference.
Posted By: casper

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Nov 2020 9:34am

I think Trumps already tried it.
Posted By: cools

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Nov 2020 9:37am

Think we all abit wary of having the vaccination but we can't have it all ways . The carehomes took the brunt of the virus and sadly many died, mistakes were made we know. Now when there's a vaccination that looks like it could help us out of this mess and let these people spend their last times with loved ones i think it's the right thing to do.
In my view someone's got to try it and as hard as it sounds better the older generation than younger , mum's and dads with children depending on them.
Posted By: bert1

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Nov 2020 10:07am

Each vaccine has already been tested on about 40,000 people, it won't be compulsary to have it and no one is going to hold a gun at your head to do so.
Posted By: mikeeb

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Nov 2020 12:22pm

As Bert says, you don't have to take it if you don't want to but I can't see many refusing it.
Posted By: granny

Re: Coronavirus - 20th Nov 2020 1:00pm



I also doubt that many will refuse, but the dear souls in the Care Homes might not have any choice and after reading the side effects that one of the Maderna employees experienced , it could prove more fatal for the old folk. He felt bad after the intital vaccination but was admitted to hospital after the booster injection !

At this moment in time, I have more confidence in the vaciine that Oxford are working on than some of the others.
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