wirral forums

Election 2019

Posted By: granny

Election 2019 - 30th Nov 2019 10:48am

Well, someone had to raise it !!


Why.. ? Because this new agenda of climate change and what all the parties are about to commit to in their 'manifesto' for resolving the problem, isn't their idea anyway. What a joke . If we stay in the EU we have to do it anyway, as already decreed by the EU 2030 Strategy.
We in UK have already made significant contributions towards changes in respect of technological changes, recycling etc.

https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/strategies/2030_en

It's also about time that ' liars' stopped referring to other politicians as ' liars.'
They are all a disgrace, and the NHS is like a bloody broken record with Labour. Stay in the EU and we'll have to pay for the privilage anyway through 'health insurance' . just like the French, Germans and all the others once health (like everything else) it's integrated Europe wide.

https://transferwise.com/gb/blog/healthcare-system-in-france

And maybe one reason we have the NHS in crisis is because all the EU nationals and others who came and got treatment were waved through the hospital receptions without needing to be checked., .. as one person says.. 'that's not our job' ! So therefore, no reimbursement from their own Governments !

In Germany they pay 7.5 % of the monthly pay for healthcare, if self employed 15% a month . Don't know how that compares now to our contributions to National Insurance which also covers other things apart from health. .
Posted By: Salmon

Re: Election 2019 - 30th Nov 2019 11:30am

Apparently the biggest cost to NHS is us older people. Some estimates reckon 40% is spent on over 65s. Falls alone cost 17billion.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 30th Nov 2019 11:37am


Strange that, Salmon. Is that why we didn't hear about the failing NHS when the 'Liverpool pathway' was operational ? laugh

Haven't heard anything positive for pensioners in this election... in fact haven't heard us or the word mentioned at all .
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Election 2019 - 30th Nov 2019 8:56pm

Nobody lies like Boris lies! It's all very well trying to pretend they're all the same but Boris lies as he breathes! I don't believe Corbyn does.

Anyway, it would appear that the country is less impressed by our egregious PM than the Conservative ladies who think he can do no wrong. A BMG poll this evening showed the tory lead falling from 13% to 6%. Well into hung parliament territory. It could be an outrider of course. But a number of other polls show Labour making progress and the tories falling back.

Who knows. I don't have a crystal ball but we say a similar pattern in the last election when a 20% leads was converted into a near defeat. And Mrs May was plausible material for a PM. Boris is fit only for a TV chat show where I'm sure he would be quite amusing for a while anyway.

Personally, I like the idea of a 'leader' who says. "It's up to you, not me. It's your country. !" It makea a pleasant change from people like Farage, Swinson, and Boris, perpetually bawling in your ear telling you what you should do. Yeats' 'Second Coming' comes to mind

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 30th Nov 2019 10:19pm



Same words, with same meaning as the other post I made.


Well I hope Labour are elected this time, because I couldn't give a shit any longer. Why should I consider the country when everyone else considers their pocket ?
I won't be voting Labour but I'll join the ranks of 'self ' and see where it gets us in the next 5 yrs. Let's see who the next lot of liars are, Tony Blair was a hard act to follow, but I'm sure McDonnell could do better, and wiping Corbyn's his arse all the way to the dispatch box.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 1st Dec 2019 3:20am

Voting this time is the simplest ever, either have Boris and another thieving Tory government in power which again will put the country into loads more debt without anything to show for it, or vote Labour.

Even if Corbyn only achieves a quarter of what he strides for it is a damn site more than the Tories have done for us.

I don't agree with Corbyn on everything especially Brexit but I acknowledge that Brexit (as I want it) is not going to happen never mind who is going to be in power.

I don't understand Corbyn's target of fibre-to-the-premises (fttp), it would be far cheaper to have fibre-to-the-cabinet (fttc)for the majority of the population which gives more than adequate speed without the heavy cost and mess of installing fttp.

The replacement of all gas boilers (at home owners expense through interest free loan) has got some sound reasoning but could go drastically wrong. With so much focus on electricity (including e-cars) the whole national grid and local electricity infrastructure may need updating.

NHS and community care - of course he is right.
Social security - of course he is right.
Minimum wage - of course he is right.
Nationalising critical infrastructure - of course he is right.
Stop warmongering - of course he is right.
Free school dinners - of course he is right.
Early start centres - of course he is right.
Stop pension age rises - of course he is right.
etc etc

In comparison the Tory manifesto largely doesn't even put right the wrongs they have made nor the failed promises and you can guarantee the rich will carry on getting richer at the expense of the many.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 1st Dec 2019 9:19am

Boris likes to dish it out, drunken working class feckless mothers, picinnies, bum boys letter box Muslims, but when his words come back to bite him,he denies them, taken out of context etc, yet he is a master of misinterpretation he thinks a few quips and a shake of his head deletes them all, if people are prepared to vote for him knowing how he views the working class ( weren't we told there is no class system now) the contempt he shows for them, then they deserve him, I am not a fan of Corbyn but he appears more genuine than Boris.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 1st Dec 2019 10:55am


Venezuela : One of the richest countries in the world,..

Destroyed in 10 yrs by Socialism !!

Corbyn loves the SA countries.. visited most in the 60's and would live in Bolivia in he could choose (one of the poorest countries on earth) would like to see the same policies here in UK.

1960's ??? He's an old man stuck in a time warp, and people can pump out all the rhetoric but it makes no difference to the man and his followers they will see you doomed .

How is it that people who work hard and rise in the social stakes get ridiculed as toffs, rich, snobs, public school boys , spoilt brats etc. etc. ? Obviously it all comes down to who has what, and nothing to do with the stability of a country.. Which is what I posted in the previous post. 'Self ' 'self' 'self' ,' me' 'me' 'me' .
Hard work pays , but not if you get rich from it apparently, give it all back to the state.

Oh yes, Corbyn, raised in a very lucrative home and environment..Family changed the name of his home to 'House' from 'Manor' ... seemed to fit better with the agenda.

McDonnell, went to a private fee paying school.. Wanted to become a Priest !

Abbott ( along with so many others) sent her son to a private fee paying school , but the minimum wage Labour introduced, is good enough for everyone else. All that did was bring down wages, and companies were given the opportunity to made a killing. and distribute the profits in 'bonuses' !

Double standards all the way with Labour and their supporters, and half of them this time around are Marxist. . I don't want to be associated with Marxists, Communists, or any other brand of extreme socialism.

Long live SOCIALISM.. for those who can't see what lies in store for their grandchildren.
Posted By: cools

Re: Election 2019 - 1st Dec 2019 11:09am

Fully agree with all you say Granny , he lives in a fantasy world!! All he wants to do is rob from the rich and give to the poor, a good idea if you're Robin Hood which is really just a myth!
So his ideas would drive all the richer people who have businesses which give employment to folk all away to start off in other countries so putting more people on the dole which would have less tax being paid to pay benefits..and all this money he's promising to everyone , where is it coming from???
Not fully with Boris but never in a million years vote for Corbyn!!
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 1st Dec 2019 11:35am



Well put ,Cools. Jus like Robin Hood , Corbyn policies are a myth too.

I don't know who I'm with. I see EU are having discussion about how they can make the EU more diplomatic. Haha !

They never will whilst they have the 'old school ' from the Eastern Block of countries sitting in positions of command and those whose countries were governed by Mussolini, Franco, Hitler, the Military in Greece, Communists in Poland, East Germany ,Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary, and many more, .. in the EU Parliament. None of them have ever know true democracy, through their lifetimes.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 1st Dec 2019 5:26pm

Originally Posted by granny
Venezuela : One of the richest countries in the world,..

Destroyed in 10 yrs by Socialism !!


And sneaky underhand tactics by the USA has had nothing to do with their downfall?

Originally Posted by granny
How is it that people who work hard and rise in the social stakes get ridiculed as toffs, rich, snobs, public school boys , spoilt brats etc. etc. ?


Not at all but can you answer this, nobody works much harder than manual labourers, how can you say some is worth 150 times more than a binman, in most cases it is not harder work it is taking higher risks and usually not with their own money.

Originally Posted by granny
Oh yes, Corbyn, raised in a very lucrative home and environment..Family changed the name of his home to 'House' from 'Manor' ... seemed to fit better with the agenda.

McDonnell, went to a private fee paying school.. Wanted to become a Priest !


Isn't that saying the opposite of your previous argument?

Originally Posted by granny
but the minimum wage Labour introduced, is good enough for everyone else. All that did was bring down wages, and companies were given the opportunity to made a killing. and distribute the profits in 'bonuses' !


So you think its ok for people to be paid less than what is currently minimum wage? Believe me, there are plenty of organisations already doing that and they would do it even more if it was legal.


Originally Posted by granny
Double standards all the way with Labour and their supporters, and half of them this time around are Marxist.


Marxism is a measurement technique, how can an analysis be so bad? What is wrong with Marxism?

Originally Posted by granny
Long live SOCIALISM.. for those who can't see what lies in store for their grandchildren.


Yep, lets get rid of the NHS altogether along with all other forms of social support, disabled support, free education, state pensions etc etc, if you want it you will have to pay for it, if you can't afford it then tough you will have to do without or die. Nothing wrong with capitalism, money is king!

Why not go the whole hog and bring back slavery? There would be plenty of Tory support for that.

Socialism is about basic morality, the belief that every person has the right to a decent life, how can that be wrong????
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 1st Dec 2019 5:52pm

Originally Posted by cools
Fully agree with all you say Granny , he lives in a fantasy world!! All he wants to do is rob from the rich and give to the poor, a good idea if you're Robin Hood which is really just a myth!
So his ideas would drive all the richer people who have businesses which give employment to folk all away to start off in other countries so putting more people on the dole which would have less tax being paid to pay benefits..and all this money he's promising to everyone , where is it coming from???
Not fully with Boris but never in a million years vote for Corbyn!!



But its ok for the rich to rob from the poor like happens now????

Every penny one person obtains is a penny taken off somebody else. When an individual has a billion pounds, that is a billion pounds taken off other people. or as an equivalence it is the annual salary of over 70,000 people on minimum wage or as another equivalence around the total lifetime income of around 1500 people on minimum wage (figures very approximate).

If they want to rob money off us, let them go abroad and rob off someone else. If they still want to carry on the business of robbing this country while abroad, fine, we will tax them here whether they like it or not.

You do realise that billionaires and million+ earners pay less percentage tax than the majority of the population. I help with the accounts for a small business, they are paying around 20% tax overall when their net income (in their pocket) is around £17,000, gross income is around £25,000 (yes I know that is not 20%, they only get tax relief on consumables they don't get them free). There are many rich people paying less than 10% overall tax.

The Tories have borrowed £80bn a year extra plus the savings from austerity measures plus money from asset-stripping the nation, they have spent loads of OUR money, far more than any other Government, but they gave it to the rich and took off the poor. Corbyn will probably spend less money (as every Labour Government has) but instead of giving massive sums to the rich he is going to spend it for the good of the country. In a lot of cases his "spending" isn't really spending, it is purchasing assets, that way he has something to show for the money, the Tories have spent the money and asset-stripped the nation at the same time, they have robbed us!
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 1st Dec 2019 7:21pm

!

Double standards all the way with Labour and their supporters, and half of them this time around are Marxist. . I don't want to be associated with Marxists, Communists, or any other brand of extreme socialism.

Long live SOCIALISM.. for those who can't see what lies in store for their grandchildren. [/quote]

You could say the same about extremists in the Tory party a good sprinkling of fascists abound along with their pals in the Brexit party, remember poor old Harold Wilson communist spy, traitor ready to turn us all over to the Russians, now Corbyns a threat to the security of this country, history repeating itself ? I
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 2nd Dec 2019 1:59am

Marxism
Militant Tendency
Militant

All begin with M, therefore Momentum are the same as above, obv init!

Well I hate to point out that using the same logic Tories must be Trotskyites.
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Election 2019 - 2nd Dec 2019 2:28pm

https://youtu.be/YazVR7Dnhtk

Watch this and enjoy. This is the mps / euro truth people dont want to hear
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 2nd Dec 2019 4:54pm

Originally Posted by svenlock68
https://youtu.be/YazVR7Dnhtk

Watch this and enjoy. This is the mps / euro truth people dont want to hear


David Noakes the fraudster whose £7.9m of illegal sales led him to a 12 month jail sentence and 3 months for money laundering. I wonder what scam he has running now?
Posted By: Salmon

Re: Election 2019 - 2nd Dec 2019 5:25pm

Oh dear, how is that nonsense still being bandied around? Noakes peddled a cure for cancer and many other illnesses including autism and acne which was derived from human blood including his own. His"cure" had no basis in science and was unlicensed.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/is-eu-nazi-project-debunking-enduring-myth/
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 2nd Dec 2019 6:11pm

Originally Posted by Salmon
Oh dear, how is that nonsense still being bandied around? Noakes peddled a cure for cancer and many other illnesses including autism and acne which was derived from human blood including his own. His"cure" had no basis in science and was unlicensed.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/is-eu-nazi-project-debunking-enduring-myth/


There is an element of truth in both.

MAF is still being looked at as it can trigger the bodies immune system to attack things.

Germany is undeniably dominating the EU both economically and power-wise, there is also the continual advancement into European confederalism. It pretty much follows the plan stated when Germany realised they were losing WW2. More recently Germany has a military pact with Romania, Holland and the Czech Republic showing they want to build a European Army even if its not sanctioned by the EU..
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 2nd Dec 2019 11:07pm

Boris might be daft enough to see this woman, that would be an interesting encounter.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1201467410416635904
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 3rd Dec 2019 6:36am

Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys who earns a million and who doesn't. Nobody complains about the footballers salaries but they complain about the Queens 58p per person per year. Nobody complains about someone spending a fortune on 'season tickets' but cry for the others that can't eat. So your philosophy is to have everyone earning the same and then nobody could enjoy anything ?
There are always those above on a higher level, even if you think everyone should be ' working class', or maybe 'upper class', I don't know because if you don't want to be 'working class' and ' upper class' is 'snobby'... what do you want ??

Let's not pretend that Labour were the single handed architects of the Welfare State !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beveridge_Report

In 1940, during the Second World War, the Labour Party entered into a coalition with the Conservative Party. On 10 June 1941 Arthur Greenwood, the Labour MP and Minister without Portfolio, announced the creation of an inter-departmental committee which would carry out a survey of Britain's social insurance and allied services:


To undertake, with special reference to the inter-relation of the schemes, a survey of the existing national schemes of social insurance and allied services, including workmen's compensation, and to make recommendations.

Its members were civil servants from the Home Office, Ministry of Labour and National Service, Ministry of Pensions, Government Actuary, Ministry of Health, HM Treasury, Reconstruction Secretariat, Board of Customs and Excise, Assistance Board, Department of Health for Scotland, Registry of Friendly Societies and Office of the Industrial Assurance Commissioner.

The report was printed by Alabaster Passmore & Sons Limited which kept their factory in Maidstone busy when there was very little other printing work available.

On December 1, 1942, the wartime coalition government published a report entitled 'Social Security and Allied Services'. This report was written by William Beveridge , a highly respected economist. The Beveridge Report swiftly became the plan for his Britain welfare state. Over forty years later, his report would go on to be referred to as 'by any measure a landmark'.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 3rd Dec 2019 7:03am



Venezuela has been riddled with all sorts, but mainly Socialism and the problems still remain. Brother in law is Venezuelan, although he has lived here since his marriage his family had to get out with nothing . His mum in her late 80's and sister and brothers live in Spain now. They weren't a hard up family, but they ended up with nothing.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 3rd Dec 2019 9:37am

[quote=granny]Personally, I couldn't give a monkeys who earns a million and who doesn't. Nobody complains about the footballers salaries but they complain about the Queens 58p per person per year. Nobody complains about someone spending a fortune on 'season tickets' but cry for the others that can't eat. So your philosophy is to have everyone earning the same and then nobody could enjoy anything ?
There are always those above on a higher level, even if you think everyone should be ' working class', or maybe 'upper class', I don't know because if you don't want to be 'working class' and ' upper class' is 'snobby'... what do you want ??

A bit of a sweeping statement granny, nobody complains about footballers salaries and season tickets, the prices they charge are obscene as are footballers wages, but I also disagree with paying some members of the Royal family especially when they abuse the privilege, as to being working class or upper class ( I wonder who who thought those labels up?) I just want to be a decent human being, I don't begrudge people earning higher wages but I do begrudge those that pay themselves obscene amounts and then whine about paying taxes and then squirrel it away in an off shore account to avoid their responsibilities, the same people that can get justice when others are denied it, because of who they are, most people aren't looking for utopia just a little more equality, I was always told that I was no better than anybody else but that nobody else was better than me.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 3rd Dec 2019 10:32am

Football is the classic example of why capitalism spirals out of control. Eventually everything heads towards monopolies and then there is little or no financial competition. The Football Association is nothing to do with football its purely about screwing money out of everything.

Why is the FA allowed to exist as a monopoly without controls?

Some people are paid too much, how can you justify people earning millions when their company is failing?

I don’t think you can call a country riddled with capitalist corruption a socialist country. There are a few countries approaching socialism and they are doing very well at the moment. Portugal, Norway etc
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 4th Dec 2019 11:06am



There is Socialism and Socialism.. and if you think Corbyn's form of Socialism will see this country flourish, then I think you are extremely misjudging the underlying agenda.

With regard to the tax avoidance, there are policies in place to tackle this within the EU and in this country.

Who was responsible for securing, propping up and contributing to Liverpool One.. for example. Duke of Westminster gave £1 billion to Liverpool One.
We used to have Fry's ,Cadbury's , and many others who put their money into work, growth , homes and sustainable living.
That fell by the wayside, but the policy of such is being reinvented again. This time in NGO's , Charities and Foundations. Another way to squirrel the tax free money away as in the case of Tony Bliar, the Beckhams, and many, many more.
It seems everyone will be living under a Charitable Trust before too long.
It's the system that helps the very rich and fails the poor. However, if anyone thinks that Corbyn is able to tackle that 'giant', then they've got to be living on cloud cuckoo.
The Royal Family, those who are paid apart from the Queen who is paid for by the Tax payer for her Royal Duties (58p per year per person) , are paid from the Crown Estates. Profits from the Crown Estates are Public Money and it all goes to the Treasury . The Crown Estates are the business which employs thousand of people who work for them, and also If Corbyn wishes to rid this country of the Monarchy, there's no better way that to apply Corporation Tax to the 'land owners' as opposed to the businesses that reside on the land, which is a pledge he has made.
Last year the Crown Estates contributed £392 million to the treasury totally almost £3 Billion over the last 10 years.

Apply Corporation Tax to for example the land Liverpool One resides on, and you will see the costs transferred in the form of ' rent to the businesses' thus making the customer paying more for everything. Everything is handed down to the customers. For the State to retake that land and/ or the businesses to fail who would be responsible for regenerating such an area ? Yes... You the tax payer !
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 4th Dec 2019 12:00pm


Crown Estates portfolio. Read and see what the Crown Estates actually do.. Put it into the hands of Government and if would be a hundred times worse than Gordon Brown selling off the nations gold reserves

https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en...income-returned-for-the-public-finances/
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 4th Dec 2019 6:39pm

The Duke of Westminster did not give £1bn to Liverpool One, he owned it, it was an investment. The Project was also heavily subsidised by public money.

Liverpool One concept was initiated by Liverpool City Council in 1998, in 2000 Liverpool City Council chose the Grosvenor Group (a private company owned by the Duke of Westminster) to run with the project but the main contract wasn't signed until 2003 due to them trying to steam-roller the project.

IIRC Grosvenor owned the land anyway so it was the job of the Council to sell the idea to Grosvenor on how to use his land as an investment.

The Duke of Westminster went from being the wealthiest person in the UK to almost losing everything due to mismanagement of his estate, Liverpool One was one of the projects that helped his financial recovery.

Virgin's West Coast Mainline received £2.8bn in subsidies and some of that they kept as "profits", that excludes the £9bn line upgrade paid for by the public and the train upgrades largely paid for by the public.. If we are going to sink that sort of money into projects isn't it much better to buy it as an asset and have something to show for the huge amounts of money that are currently given away to the rich. It is also of note that Virgin quite often didn't even reach their own targets.

The Crown Estate is managed by the Government and run the same manner as most Government Departments are these days, by creating an agency or wholly owned company. As a return over value of 2.5% per year it is not doing brilliantly. People that work for the Crown Estate are Civil Servants.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 4th Dec 2019 11:55pm

Civil Servants are not aligned to a political party . The Crown Estate is a business and is a collection of lands and holdings in the territories of England, Wales and Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom belonging to the British monarch as a corporation sole, making it the "Sovereign's public estate", which is neither government property nor part of the monarch's private estate.

Liverpool One .. Yes, half the investment cash came from him. More than £1bn was pumped into building almost 200 new shops, including John Lewis and Debenhams stores. Around half of the investment cash came from the Duke, whose full name was Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor. (Taken from L'pool Echo August 2016, but I can't copy post the link) .

We know it was his land, and it was the downturn and recession of 2007/2008 that hit Grosvenor Estates, and it was the Duke of Westminster who propped up Liverpool One during that period. Without whom, maybe it would have failed. To say he was almost bankrupt (which I;m sure would have been a joyful news read for many ! ) The company may have been on the brink but he wasn't that is completely false.
I'm sure that had it not been his land, council would not have afforded to do the same..

" The late duke’s influence was evident in riskier business decisions, such as Grosvenor Group’s backing for the £1 billion Liverpool One shopping centre, which opened in 2008 and, in the words of one industry figure, “would have probably bankrupted a lesser firm”. One of the duke’s choices for Desert Island Discs was the song Ferry Cross the Mersey. Without his “personal commitment and faith in Liverpool”, it was unlikely the complex would have been built, says Richard Kemp, a Liberal Democrat councillor in Liverpool."

"One of the real success stories has been the Liverpool One shopping centre, which opened in 2008. At the time, the group wrote off £165m of its value and it was seen as a white elephant for Grosvenor. But the centre is now full and winning international awards.
Despite making a £140m loss on the Liverpool One urban regeneration project, Grosvenor Group – the family’s main property company – saw its profits rise 38% to £508.7m in 2006. The value of its assets rose 23% to £4.6bn." .

So it's clear that these hereditary 'rich' people are most certainly putting in a huge amount to society without most of us realising it. On the other hand 'Get quick rich ' prats are the ones engaged in 'tax avoidance ' schemes. Those born with nothing and rise through corruption are clearly those who continue the path corruption .

I suppose this idea of slaying the rich to help the poor also is directed towards Whittaker of Peel Holdings. His company is registered in the Isle of Man
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 5th Dec 2019 12:20am

[quote=casper

A bit of a sweeping statement granny, nobody complains about footballers salaries and season tickets, the prices they charge are obscene as are footballers wages, but I also disagree with paying some members of the Royal family especially when they abuse the privilege, as to being working class or upper class ( I wonder who who thought those labels up?) I just want to be a decent human being, I don't begrudge people earning higher wages but I do begrudge those that pay themselves obscene amounts and then whine about paying taxes and then squirrel it away in an off shore account to avoid their responsibilities, the same people that can get justice when others are denied it, because of who they are, most people aren't looking for utopia just a little more equality, I was always told that I was no better than anybody else but that nobody else was better than me.


[/quote]

Which members of the Royal Family Casper ? Name them ( but please don't mention Prince A, that is another topic altogether)
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 5th Dec 2019 1:08am

Civil Servants are aligned to the Government, if it is a Tory Government they are aligned to the Tory Government, if it is a Labour government they are aligned to the Labour Government. The Civil Service are the executive of the Government.

The Crown Estate is on permanent loan to the Government from the Crown as a means of payment, Crown Estates are directly answerable to the Government.

The Duke's Financial troubles were way back in 1979 when he inherited the estate which he had been already managing for a number of years but had mistakenly trusted others to manage for him.

It was hardly philanthropic to invest in something he owned, he was investing for profit not for the greater good. He had the full backing of the Council to create Liverpool One at the expense of the some of the City's main shopping areas, look what happened to Dale Street, London Road, Renshaw Street, Lime Street etc.

There is no slaying of the rich, there is removal of some tax relief the Tories gave them (whilst imposing austerity on the rest).

You know the full story of Peel Holdings, a company that specialises screwing funds from the public purse to make their profits. They pull local Council's in with wild promises which the Council invests in more and more until they have over-committed then Peel can just do what it likes by holding them to ransom.

Gerald didn't die yesterday, be careful with your cut and pastes.

Which of the following Countries do you consider Marxist?
Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Finland
Netherlands
New Zealand
Portugal

They are all pretty much aligned with the current Labour party proposals and they are doing very well, even Portugal despite their massive debt. We have had such a long period of mostly right-wing capitalist rule and false threats of reds-under-the-beds that we have forgotten what normality and morality are.
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Election 2019 - 5th Dec 2019 9:49am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Civil Servants are aligned to the Government, if it is a Tory Government they are aligned to the Tory Government, if it is a Labour government they are aligned to the Labour Government. The Civil Service are the executive of the Government.


Civil servants are aligned to the civil service. I always thought Yes Minister was a spoof until I started to work closely with both!
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 5th Dec 2019 9:49am

Originally Posted by granny
[quote=cas

Which members of the Royal Family Casper ? Name them ( but please don't mention Prince A, that is another topic altogether)


Oh come on granny you cant have your cake and ha'penny, is prince Andrew a member of the royal family or not? prince Harry with his tax payer funded house make over, Andrews kids with their lavish weddings, why don't they do what this government tells everyone to do, pay for it themselves? after all they can afford it.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 5th Dec 2019 12:50pm

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny
[quote=cas

Which members of the Royal Family Casper ? Name them ( but please don't mention Prince A, that is another topic altogether)


Oh come on granny you cant have your cake and ha'penny, is prince Andrew a member of the royal family or not? prince Harry with his tax payer funded house make over, Andrews kids with their lavish weddings, why don't they do what this government tells everyone to do, pay for it themselves? after all they can afford it.



Casper, you must read the Daily Mail or the Guardian.. Just to put things straight Harry and Meghan's home, Frogmore Cottage is privately owned by the Queen. Tax payers did not fund the renovations, the money came out of the profits from the Crown Estate, the Queen receives a percentage of the profits .It made no difference to your pocket or anyone else's pocket.

"The Crown Estate (the Monarch’s property portfolio) makes a profit each year, which adds to the total pot of money the government has to spend. The government gives some of that pot in a grant to the Queen each year, with the grant amount usually a fixed percentage of the profit the Estate has made. Part of that grant is what paid for these renovations.

Taxpayers (and equivalently the government) are not directly worse off financially because these renovations are happening, and would be no better off this year if no renovations had been made."

Prince Andrew was also paid out of the Queens allotted amount from the profits the Estate makes, for his work which has probably been hit in the head now.

Princess Eugnenie's wedding was paid for by contributions from the Queen, and split between Prince Andrew, Sarah Fergusson and the Brookbank family. Security was not paid for by them, estimated £2 million which seems to be a drop in the ocean when we think about the £37 million it has cost the Met police force to provide a service for protests of Extinction Rebellion !!

Princess Beatrice is paying for her own wedding.. and so, who are the rest of the hangers on ?
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 5th Dec 2019 1:00pm



DD none of the countries you list are headed by Marxists, Trotskyists or Communists and they haven't shared platforms with Hamas commanders Patrick Magee, PLFP commander ,and various other extremists.

Corbyn is in my opinion dangerous. That's how I see him and no more to be said .
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 5th Dec 2019 3:18pm

Granny, I hope you vote for Boris.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 5th Dec 2019 4:37pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny
[quote=cas

Which members of the Royal Family Casper ? Name them ( but please don't mention Prince A, that is another topic altogether)


Oh come on granny you cant have your cake and ha'penny, is prince Andrew a member of the royal family or not? prince Harry with his tax payer funded house make over, Andrews kids with their lavish weddings, why don't they do what this government tells everyone to do, pay for it themselves? after all they can afford it.



Casper, you must read the Daily Mail or the Guardian.. Just to put things straight Harry and Meghan's home, Frogmore Cottage is privately owned by the Queen. Tax payers did not fund the renovations, the money came out of the profits from the Crown Estate, the Queen receives a percentage of the profits .It made no difference to your pocket or anyone else's pocket.

"The Crown Estate (the Monarch’s property portfolio) makes a profit each year, which adds to the total pot of money the government has to spend. The government gives some of that pot in a grant to the Queen each year, with the grant amount usually a fixed percentage of the profit the Estate has made. Part of that grant is what paid for these renovations.

Taxpayers (and equivalently the government) are not directly worse off financially because these renovations are happening, and would be no better off this year if no renovations had been made."

Prince Andrew was also paid out of the Queens allotted amount from the profits the Estate makes, for his work which has probably been hit in the head now.

Princess Eugnenie's wedding was paid for by contributions from the Queen, and split between Prince Andrew, Sarah Fergusson and the Brookbank family. Security was not paid for by them, estimated £2 million which seems to be a drop in the ocean when we think about the £37 million it has cost the Met police force to provide a service for protests of Extinction Rebellion !!

Princess Beatrice is paying for her own wedding.. and so, who are the rest of the hangers on ?


You need to read through it again granny @ full fact org, read the footnote, it may of been incorrect to say the money didn't come come from the taxpayer, but it made no difference to you or I, really it just appeared then via the good fairy, in other words the money had already been paid by the taxpayer, security for the minor royal who has no public duties between 2 to 4 million no exact figure given surprise surprise
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 6th Dec 2019 10:38am

The money had not been paid for by the Tax payer, it was profits from the Estates that go into the big pot. That is NOT taken from the tax payers money. It is public money, which is different.
I've read full fact .0rg and here's another that states the Queen pays her taxes like anyone else, therefore she contributes to the Policing and security of this country like anyone else.

https://fullfact.org/economy/royal-family-what-are-costs-and-benefits/

It's always funny how the more important issue like the £37 million for containing protestors, is forgotten about and not even mentioned. I am assuming you are happy for your taxes to pay for that .


Anyway, I've fallen out with you two now. I'm fed up trying to make you see sense, but as the years roll on we can be sure that the next generation will have a life of a different nature to what we enjoyed. We did have the best years, and it's a shame we might face another Civil war. I think the last one in this country was when Oliver Cromwell tried to get rid of the Monarchy ! grin
Must be time for another.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 6th Dec 2019 10:39am



Nice little article for why you should / should not vote for Corbyn , DD . Depends on whether you can find enough excuses for the man.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...reToken=f957fe60d2417d4e04823da51593dc97
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 6th Dec 2019 2:26pm

Granny, don't vote Labour if you really believe that right wing lies and propaganda (which you don't), if Boris gets in I will blame you and your ilk, if Labour get in you can enjoy the benefits of a socialist society.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 6th Dec 2019 2:49pm

Originally Posted by granny
The money had not been paid for by the Tax payer, it was profits from the Estates that go into the big pot. That is NOT taken from the tax payers money. It is public money, which is different.
I've read full fact .0rg and here's another that states the Queen pays her taxes like anyone else, therefore she contributes to the Policing and security of this country like anyone else.

https://fullfact.org/economy/royal-family-what-are-costs-and-benefits/

It's always funny how the more important issue like the £37 million for containing protestors, is forgotten about and not even mentioned. I am assuming you are happy for your taxes to pay for that .


Anyway, I've fallen out with you two now. I'm fed up trying to make you see sense, but as the years roll on we can be sure that the next generation will have a life of a different nature to what we enjoyed. We did have the best years, and it's a shame we might face another Civil war. I think the last one in this country was when Oliver Cromwell tried to get rid of the Monarchy ! grin
Must be time for another.




I can't believe it, binned again, I always knew you had a thing for that smooth talking Boris, I bet the last thing he said to you was "lets get it done". wink
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 7th Dec 2019 10:01am



Caper, you need to play your cards right. Jack of hearts has been slipping away in recent times. Boris would never say that to me ..... he can't string two sentences together, but he might view me as oven ready.

It's my Queenie and the Monarchy that I love in this country. All families have their problems, and they are human too, but overall it's a stability that could unite us all rather than half the population moaning about £2million security bill. The heating bill in Westminster probably costs double !

Oh here we have it ! and it looks like they are closer to £3 million !

https://www.parliament.uk/site-info...r-each-of-the-past-five-financial-years/

Energy bills for the Houses of Parliament

The natural gas costs for the Parliamentary Estate for the last 5 financial years are:

£s
2007/08 £613,903.19
2008/09 £911,488.00
2009/10 £527,824.42
2010/11 £853,598.87
2011/12 £822,856.13

The electricity costs for the Parliamentary Estate for the last 5 financial years are:

£s
2007/08 2,618,887.18
2008/09 3,125,914.07
2009/10 3,327,939.84
2010/11 2,876,465.76
2011/12 3,466,449.87
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 7th Dec 2019 10:04am



General election 2019: Reddit says UK-US trade talks document leak 'linked to Russia'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-50695558
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 7th Dec 2019 11:12am

Reddit also said the document is unquestionably genuine and not manufactured by the Russians. The only question is how did the Russians get hold of it.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 7th Dec 2019 1:37pm


Corbyn said the documents were a 'Freedom of Information' request. That's a bit confusing .
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 7th Dec 2019 1:49pm

Originally Posted by granny

Corbyn said the documents were a 'Freedom of Information' request. That's a bit confusing .


There were two documents he requested under the freedom of information, both were heavily redacted when he received them, in fact at least one was very close to being totally redacted. Since then he obtained non-redacted copies from other sources.

This shows what is meant by redacted ....

Attached picture 5deb632c240000ef015a298b.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 8th Dec 2019 7:01pm

The happiest countries in the world all have one thing in common. They all have socialist governments that invest heavily in order to obtain a very high quality of life. That's exactly what socialist Labour will do for the UK too, if given the opportunity. Here's the top ten in reverse order.
10. Australia (not socialist)
9. Iceland
8. Austria
7. Switzerland
6. Canada
5. Sweden
4. Netherlands
3. Denmark
2. Norway
1. Finland
Unfortunately, the UK are at no.15.

Attached picture 78719765_132287438216247_7386912899475701760_o.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 9th Dec 2019 12:33pm

And to follow that up, the countries with the highest standards of living are socialist states:-

1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Finland
4. Australia (not socialist)
5. Iceland
6. Austria
7. Netherlands
8. German
9. New Zealand
10. Sweden
...
18. UK (not socialist)
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Election 2019 - 9th Dec 2019 3:57pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
And to follow that up, the countries with the highest standards of living are socialist states:-

1. Denmark
2. Switzerland
3. Finland
4. Australia (not socialist)
5. Iceland
6. Austria
7. Netherlands
8. German
9. New Zealand
10. Sweden
...
18. UK (not socialist)



The only problem with polls like this is that you can't compare country like-for-like, because of factors like wages, housing, population and other standards which vary wildly between countries.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 9th Dec 2019 11:45pm

Originally Posted by Gibbo
The only problem with polls like this is that you can't compare country like-for-like, because of factors like wages, housing, population and other standards which vary wildly between countries.


It wasn't a poll, it was measured on the type of factors you described. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/standard-of-living-by-country/
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 11th Dec 2019 11:42am


I see that Finland have a 5 party coalition. Just elected a new PM, which is throwing the cat amongst the pigeons. So not the happiest of places. ( although maybe they are as they also have a huge drink and drug problem )

Is anywhere really happy ? I would say NO.

......and will tactical voting tomorrow, make us any happier ? I would say NO to that also. Seems a waste of time, when overall it's likely that one place will cancel out another.

Is anyone going to vote tactically ?
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 11th Dec 2019 12:18pm



Anyone thinking of voting green, and the cutting carbon emissions by the promise of electric cars. N.B Cobalt is need for the batteries, the earth has just about run out of cobalt, so now the only other place is the ocean beds, which they are now experimenting with in the Med.

So is digging up the ocean beds to provide for electric vehicles .. world wide, ... not going to completely destroy the wildlife in our oceans ??

Haven't heard the green party mention this at all.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-49759626
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 11th Dec 2019 6:24pm

There is no shortage of land mined Cobalt, wherever you mine Copper you get Cobalt, the problem is guaranteeing a reliable and ethical supply as Copper mines are in the dodgier parts of the world.

But it seems a bit pointless looking for another source of Cobalt while Copper is obtained from the places you are trying to avoid. If we run out of Copper then Cobalt would be the least of our problems.

As with most "environmentally friendly solutions" there are always other impacts and people like Greenpeace have sometimes got to perform u-turns.

Look at the Palm Oil fiasco, the Palm Tree is possibly the most efficient source of vegetable oil in terms of land area, other sources of vegetable oil can take up to six times the amount of land to produce the same quantity. So yes, Palm Oil foresting does destroy land BUT it does it less than other solutions so is the best option. Unfortunately the media latched on and forced the hands of many industries who didn't want bad publicity and has increased the amount of damage.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Election 2019 - 11th Dec 2019 7:42pm

I generally just skim read advertising mail that gets delivered. Had one today that caught my eye "Vote for the Brexit Party ...... " and turned it over to see it was from the Conservative party.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 11th Dec 2019 9:16pm

Just like they have had nine years to fix the NHS, they have had over three years to Brexit. They tell a good story and rarely carry out their promises.

Always hacked me off when they say they haven't had parliamentary time to do something they promised but find time to introduce things that weren't in their manifesto.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 12th Dec 2019 8:52am

Originally Posted by fish5133
I generally just skim read advertising mail that gets delivered. Had one today that caught my eye "Vote for the Brexit Party ...... " and turned it over to see it was from the Conservative party.


Underhanded as ever, never tell the truth, I can't get the picture of Johnson's face when he was shown the picture of the child laying on the hospital floor out of my mind, to me that will always remind me of what the Tories really stand for, they have no empathy nor understanding of real life issues nor do they care, false flag emails sent out saying the hospital incident was staged, absolutely sickening, another one being bandied about, the security services are ready to take over if Corbyn wins, they would hire Gobells if they could, all in the cause of democracy you understand.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 12th Dec 2019 12:27pm

Today, almost a third of the population will vote for billionaires Rupert Murdoch, Richard Desmond, Viscount Rothsmere and the Barclay Brothers, in doing so they will be voting against our younger and future generations.

Too many people want to reap the benefits of society but abhor the idea that others benefit.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 12th Dec 2019 3:52pm

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 12th Dec 2019 4:48pm

Another myth exposed.

Attached picture 74294572_10220195038963606_6612350173668442112_n.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 12:51am

Labour losing votes to the Brexit Party.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 2:08am

Birkenhead kept Labour, all Labour votes lost were mostly to Frank Field. One of the few places so far where Conservatives have had a reduction in votes.

Well done Mick and the team!
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 2:40am

Wirral South is Labour hold and again the Tories lost some votes.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 2:52am

Wirral West is Labour hold, again Conservatives lost some votes.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 2:59am

Wallasey is Labour hold.

All four Wirral seats have remained Labour, excellent.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 8:54am



hi Good morning. Everybody happy ? yipee
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 9:06am


Queenie in a safe seat too ! grin
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 9:50am

This is not a time for gloating. Its the bloody nose I've said for so long that Labour would get, only I didn't think it would get it from the Labour heartlands of the North.

When places like Rother and Don Valley and so many other strong Labour seats are voting Tory, you know that Labour is no longer speaking to the people there.

But Labour have done themselves no favours by alienating the centre-left - the people that Blair worked so hard to take from the Tories. Corbyn supporters still using phrases like "Blairites" and "Tory Lite" have done themselves no favours and pushed us elsewhere. The rise in Momentum and their angry supporters is just the icing on the cake.

Time to move on, fresh leader, fresh perspectives. Brexit should now be a done deal and forgotten about. No more talk about extensions and second referendums which are splitting the party. Remainers are just going to have to grin and bear it. I accepted it some time ago, Lets get a moderate Labour leader to reunite the party and prepare for a 2024 victory.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 12:08pm

It is 90% down to the media.

Its people believing that Corbyn is anti-Semitic which is a lie on the scale of saying the Pope is a bigamist.

Its people believing that Labour put the country in debt when it has ALWAYS been the Conservatives that borrowed more money and mismanaged the economy.

Basically its people not checking the facts.

To quote Jim Morrison "Whoever controls the media, controls the mind".

How can people vote for a party that has been in power for nine years and damaged everything they have touched? Only happens through lies!


Blair was a Tory, it is pointless being the Labour party when you take a right-wing stance, its not about winning, its about doing the right thing.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 12:52pm

Originally Posted by granny


hi Good morning. Everybody happy ? yipee


I hope you will still be dancing in a year or two granny no
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 12:54pm

Originally Posted by Gibbo
But Labour have done themselves no favours by alienating the centre-left


The voting evidence would suggest otherwise, all the centrists that left the Labour and Tory parties lost their seats.
Posted By: cools

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 3:03pm

I was glad about the result, not that I really think Boris is great but compared to Corbyn for me he was the better choice... I hope now that Brexit can start moving again and although it will take awhile just have to be optimistic and hope it will work in our favour. Also think there will be some good advisors behind scenes to steer Boris about other matters which need to be sorted!
Don't think it was all down to media DD ,Corbyn and his outlandish claims were just not believable and he as a leader obviously did not sit well with the majority..
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 5:45pm

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny


hi Good morning. Everybody happy ? yipee


I hope you will still be dancing in a year or two granny no



Yep, I will. Optimism is a key to success. On the other hand pessimism is the answer to doom and gloom.

Basically, Labour and Lib Dems shot themselves in the foot. Had they not denied the democratic referendum and continually , week after week, in PM's questions argued for a second referendum, blocked, and voted against the motions, there would have been no need for a General Election at this point in time.
I think the media have had an input, mainly because in the studio audience questions to the different parties, the questions were the same each time, and we never moved from the NHS, Brexit, Police and Education.
We'd heard all of that over and over again for months, and Corbyn and Co . could not drop their constant nag and political character assassination , which is like kids in a playground.
Had Crobyn not been leader, they could have done a lot better.
But, I believe we will come out far better than anticipated..... and when we consider that the whole of Europe has been on austerity and Germany and France have more food banks than UK and feed more people than the UK. (countries with equivalent populations ) and a programme that is relatively new to UK, but been in operation for many more years in Europe and around the world.

When looking at properties in Liverpool for rent, nearly all the terraced houses are for rent to students . Landlords , many from London owning streets of houses, and renting them out to students for double the rent ,it's a disgrace when so many families need homes. A trend that began during the 2000's and continued to grow.
Let the Universities build more student accommodation and allow the local people to have the family homes that were originally meant for them.

There are so many issues that could have been discussed in the TV debates..... but no , they were all directed by pre- designed questions on the same old intended vote catching.

Anyway, I have to say, that I will gloat, because they tried to defy the referendum result... and it backfired !

.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 6:07pm

and, before anyone argues about the properties in Liverpool being bought up by Londoners, the minute that Liverpool won the Capitol of Culture, the phones were ringing like mad. I took the calls and they were all property hunters from London.
Now they get between £750 and £1000 per month from student rentals. Houses that would normally approx. get £500 for a family occupation.

Plus the increase in population and the strain of the NHS, but Corbyn intended to continue with free movement. Population UK in 2000 , 59 million. Population 2019 , 67.5 million.

Why can't we buy lamb at a reasonable cost ? Because Welsh lamb is the best in the world, and the farmers sell it to European counties because they are offered exceptionally high prices. The farmers won't lose profit by selling it to us.
Then they ship the live meat from European countries all over the world, Africa, Asia, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. The last shipload leaving Romania 2 weeks ago sank . On it's way to Saudi Arabia , the ship sank and over 1400 sheep died. They managed to rescue 230 !

The same applies to beef cattle. All over the world, once it's left UK. A piece of topside here for a family costs how much ? About £15.00 !
Posted By: cools

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 6:47pm

And just on the optimistic note Granny, just heard that the pound and shares have surged due to the uncertainty of Brexit bing sorted.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 6:56pm

Originally Posted by cools
Corbyn and his outlandish claims were just not believable and he as a leader obviously did not sit well with the majority..


Name two outlandish claims? Unlike the Conservatives the Labour manifesto was fully costed.

Have you any idea how much money the Tories have thrown it in the direction of the rich, they are having a go at Corbyn on a £83bn 5 year plan, the Tories borrowed an extra £80bn each year for 9 years on average Check it! Where did that money go???
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 9:44pm

Originally Posted by cools
And just on the optimistic note Granny, just heard that the pound and shares have surged due to the uncertainty of Brexit bing sorted.


Rubbish, Casper, it's because they know which direction things are now going in. The pound soared against the dollar. Anyway, don't know why you are worried, i thought you'd be quids in. !! grin
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 9:57pm


When the Shadow Home Secretary goes out in odd shoes, not only odd but two left feet, then things are getting a bit concerning to say the least. Do they really know what they were promoting ? crazy



Attached picture Capture%20shoes.png
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 10:05pm

Originally Posted by cools
And just on the optimistic note Granny, just heard that the pound and shares have surged due to the uncertainty of Brexit bing sorted.



They did. Sorry Cools, I thought you were Casper and I was jesting with him.. (as you probably see). Pound soared against the dollar and the Euro.
So maybe all the pessimists that issued black forecasts after the referendum, are about to see their arse again, by being proven wrong. (again)

Again Sorry.. apologies. ( and a few to Casper too)
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 10:26pm

Originally Posted by granny
When the Shadow Home Secretary goes out in odd shoes, not only odd but two left feet, then things are getting a bit concerning to say the least. Do they really know what they were promoting ? crazy


Yep, really important because I believe the Home secretary also governs the Ministry of Silly Walks.
Posted By: cools

Re: Election 2019 - 13th Dec 2019 10:43pm

Ha no problem Granny I thought that...
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 8:46am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by cools
And just on the optimistic note Granny, just heard that the pound and shares have surged due to the uncertainty of Brexit bing sorted.



They did. Sorry Cools, I thought you were Casper and I was jesting with him.. (as you probably see). Pound soared against the dollar and the Euro.
So maybe all the pessimists that issued black forecasts after the referendum, are about to see their arse again, by being proven wrong. (again)

Again Sorry.. apologies. ( and a few to Casper too)



Don't open the champers yet, its early days, I predict that in two years time when the cock crows the Tory voters will deny their messiah, I really hope I'am not right because the next burden will fall on our kids and grandchildren again, And granny I would really hate to say I told you so. yes
Posted By: Salmon

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 11:42am

A staggering 88% of Tory adverts on Facebook during the first four days of December included ­inaccurate claims, said disinformation tracking organisation First Draft.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 12:02pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
When the Shadow Home Secretary goes out in odd shoes, not only odd but two left feet, then things are getting a bit concerning to say the least. Do they really know what they were promoting ? crazy


Yep, really important because I believe the Home secretary also governs the Ministry of Silly Walks.



Joking aside, I really do think she has got some health issues . The lady with her looks like a carer, (don't know why, but just does) Maybe she's suffering with some sort of dementia and if so, that's very sad. I wouldn't wish that or similar on anyone.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 12:08pm

Originally Posted by Salmon
A staggering 88% of Tory adverts on Facebook during the first four days of December included ­inaccurate claims, said disinformation tracking organisation First Draft.


Which percentage of people and age groups would have seen those , Salmon ? Students were mostly aligned to Corbyn having been brainwashed in the Universities.

Last night there were big demonstrations in London and Glasgow by the Socialist Workers Party. Notified on Facebook and more police expense .

Socialist Workers Party. (Corbyn's back up )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)

The SWP describes itself as a 'revolutionary socialist party' and considers itself to stand in the 'tradition' of Leon Trotsky. It also shares many of the political positions of other Trotskyist groups, a tradition rooted in Marxism and Leninism (see for example Tony Cliff, Marxism at the Millennium.[117]) In common with other Trotskyists the SWP defends the body of ideas codified by the first four Congresses of the Communist International and the founding Congress of the Fourth International of Leon Trotsky in 1938.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 4:21pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by Salmon
A staggering 88% of Tory adverts on Facebook during the first four days of December included ­inaccurate claims, said disinformation tracking organisation First Draft.


Which percentage of people and age groups would have seen those , Salmon ? Students were mostly aligned to Corbyn having been brainwashed in the Universities.

Last night there were big demonstrations in London and Glasgow by the Socialist Workers Party. Notified on Facebook and more police expense .

Socialist Workers Party. (Corbyn's back up )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)

The SWP describes itself as a 'revolutionary socialist party' and considers itself to stand in the 'tradition' of Leon Trotsky. It also shares many of the political positions of other Trotskyist groups, a tradition rooted in Marxism and Leninism (see for example Tony Cliff, Marxism at the Millennium.[117]) In common with other Trotskyists the SWP defends the body of ideas codified by the first four Congresses of the Communist International and the founding Congress of the Fourth International of Leon Trotsky in 1938.


This is what happens when we stick labels on things, FBI investigates cinema release its a Wonderful Life, stating the story has been inspired by Communist undertones and propaganda implying that Capitalism represents greed at the expense of others, a happy Christmas there then. omg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 5:29pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by Salmon
A staggering 88% of Tory adverts on Facebook during the first four days of December included ­inaccurate claims, said disinformation tracking organisation First Draft.


Which percentage of people and age groups would have seen those , Salmon ? Students were mostly aligned to Corbyn having been brainwashed in the Universities.


First draft is a big international organisation, the facebook adverts were by the Conservative party, not individuals. No idea what you are trying to insinuate.

Originally Posted by granny
Last night there were big demonstrations in London and Glasgow by the Socialist Workers Party. Notified on Facebook and more police expense .


They were Antifa demonstrations not SWP.

Originally Posted by granny


Socialist Workers Party. (Corbyn's back up )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(UK)

The SWP describes itself as a 'revolutionary socialist party' and considers itself to stand in the 'tradition' of Leon Trotsky. It also shares many of
the political positions of other Trotskyist groups, a tradition rooted in Marxism and Leninism (see for example Tony Cliff, Marxism at the Millennium.[117]) In common with other Trotskyists the SWP defends the body of ideas codified by the first four Congresses of the Communist International and the founding Congress of the Fourth International of Leon Trotsky in 1938.


Corbyn isn't and never has been affiliated or associated with the SWP.

What is wrong with the existence of the SWP? They are purely a political viewpoint. Their primary protests are anti-racism and anti-war. I hope you don't believe the SWP should be censured? Unlike the far-right groups and parties they do not do nor promote anything illegal. I guess if you are a member of the Ku Klux Klan you might object to the SWP.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 6:12pm

Considering Antifa began as an American left-wing, autonomous, militant anti-fascist groups , they're not far removed from SWP. As it happens, the protesters were carrying SWP posters. So tell me, were they Antifa, or SWP ? What you are insinuating is that the Tories are fascist ! Well, must be just about the whole of the country at the moment in that case !

I'm not insinuating anything, just saying facts. University students have always been brainwashed towards far left, Marxism and all the attached criteria since my sister was there in the 1960's. . Communist supporters standing on orange boxes at the pier head, girls taking time out of school at Blackburn House to go and listen to the projected political persuations . Same influences during my son and daughters time at University.

Everyone can march and protest, don't put words in my mouth about censorship but why go and take their protests to No 10, what on earth were they protesting about and what would they expect to happen ? Anti-racism and anti-war.... ? Racism is everywhere apparently, and where's the war ? Why Glasgow.. are Scotland embarking on racism and -war ? If it's -racism they were worried about, they should have been outside Corbyns house.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 6:59pm

I spent more than four years in universities, I can't remember any political influencing or discussion whatsoever apart from a few seconds about staff strikes.

It was primarily an Antifa demonstration, there will have been SWP, LD, Labour and Conservative party members there. Antifa is a group not a political party.

Antifa UK is nothing to do with Antifa USA or Antifa Germany, if anything it was a partial resurrection of AFA which you will pleased to know Corbyn was involved in, the AFA's primary function was to discredit the BNP and NF.

There is plenty of evidence of fascism in the Conservative party.

I would like to see any evidence of racism from Corbyn, I can supply some for Boris if you want.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 7:05pm



Well, my daughter was influenced during her university years. She is an avid staunch supporter of Corbyn. That's fine, if that's what she believes in, however she is now forwarding me posts that are being posted on pro labour sites that are accusing the Tories of being Natzi's.

So who is responsible for that ? If it's not Labour party members or affiliated groups, then it's got to be others poisoning minds into extremism.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 7:17pm

There were mock elections at a number of schools, here are some Wirral results.

Co-op Academy Bebington
Labour - 274 - 78%
Brexit - 23 - 6.55%
Green - 21 - 5.98%
Conservative - 17 - 4.84%
Liberal Democrats - 16 - 4.56%

St Anselm's College
Labour: 330 (57.3%)
Green: 89 (15.5%)
Conservative: 70 (11.9%)
Brexit: 53 (9.2%)
Lib Dem: 21 (3.6%)

Ridgeway High School
Green - 13%
Birkenhead Social Justice - 8%
Liberal Democrat - 7%
Brexit Party - 2%
Conservative - 4%
Labour - 63%
Posted By: Salmon

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 8:18pm

Originally Posted by granny
[quote=Salmon]A staggering 88% of Tory adverts on Facebook during the first four days of December included ­inaccurate claims, said disinformation tracking organisation First Draft.


Which percentage of people and age groups would have seen those , Salmon ? Students were mostly aligned to Corbyn having been brainwashed in the Universities.



Surely the point is not so much who would have seen the posts but the very fact that they were lies put about by the Tories. Granny,as you say students were mostly aligned to Corbyn (if even true) then they would not have been influenced by the lies whereas non students would almost certainly have been.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 14th Dec 2019 8:55pm

Some dirty and sneaky tricks went on. ....

Tories outside voting stations telling people they couldn't vote without ID.

Lib Dems posting leaflets through doors saying the Labour candidate had withdrawn.

Total lies about the record turnouts, telling people there were massive queues when the turnout was actually less than the 2017 elections.

On the Wirral

Police had to be called against conservatives intimidating Labour's Wirral West Campaign Shop, despite moving on at least one returned to the vicinity. It was reported that Laura Evans (the Conservative Candidate) and Conservative Councillor Tony Cox were part of this group.

Numerous (at least five) Labour Placards were vandalised, in one case the whole wall and fence was knocked over.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 15th Dec 2019 9:22am

Originally Posted by granny


Well, my daughter was influenced during her university years. She is an avid staunch supporter of Corbyn. That's fine, if that's what she believes in, however she is now forwarding me posts that are being posted on pro labour sites that are accusing the Tories of being Natzi's.

So who is responsible for that ? If it's not Labour party members or affiliated groups, then it's got to be others poisoning minds into extremism.


Granny I'am sure your daughter is a well balanced person and able to think for herself, why is it that extremism only appears to come from communism or socialist groups, and I am sorry but I also believe that there are some in the Conservative party that have leanings toward Nazism there is a history of it dating back to WW2 there are extremists in all groups, the Tories have made good use of the media propaganda machine, if a lie is repeated often enough it soon becomes fact, Johnson's verbal and written attacks on the working class and other social groups give an insight into what he really believes in and its not equality nor the well being of the many, all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.
Posted By: granny

Re: Election 2019 - 15th Dec 2019 12:33pm

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny


Well, my daughter was influenced during her university years. She is an avid staunch supporter of Corbyn. That's fine, if that's what she believes in, however she is now forwarding me posts that are being posted on pro labour sites that are accusing the Tories of being Natzi's.

So who is responsible for that ? If it's not Labour party members or affiliated groups, then it's got to be others poisoning minds into extremism.


Granny I'am sure your daughter is a well balanced person and able to think for herself, why is it that extremism only appears to come from communism or socialist groups, and I am sorry but I also believe that there are some in the Conservative party that have leanings toward Nazism there is a history of it dating back to WW2 there are extremists in all groups, the Tories have made good use of the media propaganda machine, if a lie is repeated often enough it soon becomes fact, Johnson's verbal and written attacks on the working class and other social groups give an insight into what he really believes in and its not equality nor the well being of the many, all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.


Yes, right ,my daughter is pretty smart.. but has never left school ! All teachers seem to have the same ethos and what is more they are very hot headed about it and try to influence others . Once a teacher, always a teacher.
My son went to St Josephs 'fee paying' school in Suffolk, because the bullying he suffered in the comprehensive school was unbearable for him. (at least he had a choice to get out , some don't. and my mum paid.. in case I get condemned for being one of the rich ! ) John McDonnell went to the same school, a fee paying school and wanted to be a priest. My son's degree was in pure philosophy, which amongst other things ,means he can think for himself.
Corbyn went to a private school, and was raised in a Manor House .
Diane Abbot sent her kid to private education .
Yet they consider themselves fit to sit in command of others and strip so many of their own successes , no matter how small , and individual choices.
Quite right about the 'lies' Casper, it worked both ways with constant accusations on Johnson being a liar. You did yourself. When people were pinned down and asked about the lies, they either couldn't or raised the issue of him not leaving the EU by the end of October as he had promised. Forgetting the fact that he'd been stopped in his tracks which is the very reason we had the GE which has turned sour for the losers. This guy felt the same as many but I doubt it did his blood pressure any good !



These types of extremism in this period of time will be not be coming from the Conservative party to the Conservative party, and the only reason for extremism is to get rid of leaders or political parties. The only alternative leader to Boris and the Tories would be who ? It sort of paints a picture, don't you think ?
Anyway, considering Momentum have directed and controlled Corbyn, it's his cross to bear. A new leader, a new dawn and I hope Lisa Nandy goes for it. She would at least get respect unlike some of the other mouthy madam's .

Well that's it from me, I commiserate with all those who received a devastating blow, but it's not each other we should blame, it's the leaders of the party one supports. They are the guilty ones.
So I will wish you a very happy Xmas Casper and friends , enjoy the videos, they are quite amusing and the MEP Lib Dem, eye opening when we consider what they do in the EU and what they are paid.
Love you all loads. XXX




Corbyn's family home. Maybe he thinks we should all have one ! Everyone equal and all that. ..

Attached picture corb2_3415881b.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 15th Dec 2019 6:13pm

I posted a link a few posts back by my friend Peter Oborne which shows that Johnson is a pathological liar. Here it is again https://boris-johnson-lies.com/
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 16th Dec 2019 12:02pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by granny


Well, my daughter was influenced during her university years. She is an avid staunch supporter of Corbyn. That's fine, if that's what she believes in, however she is now forwarding me posts that are being posted on pro labour sites that are accusing the Tories of being Natzi's.

So who is responsible for that ? If it's not Labour party members or affiliated groups, then it's got to be others poisoning minds into extremism.


Granny I'am sure your daughter is a well balanced person and able to think for herself, why is it that extremism only appears to come from communism or socialist groups, and I am sorry but I also believe that there are some in the Conservative party that have leanings toward Nazism there is a history of it dating back to WW2 there are extremists in all groups, the Tories have made good use of the media propaganda machine, if a lie is repeated often enough it soon becomes fact, Johnson's verbal and written attacks on the working class and other social groups give an insight into what he really believes in and its not equality nor the well being of the many, all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.


Yes, right ,my daughter is pretty smart.. but has never left school ! All teachers seem to have the same ethos and what is more they are very hot headed about it and try to influence others . Once a teacher, always a teacher.
My son went to St Josephs 'fee paying' school in Suffolk, because the bullying he suffered in the comprehensive school was unbearable for him. (at least he had a choice to get out , some don't. and my mum paid.. in case I get condemned for being one of the rich ! ) John McDonnell went to the same school, a fee paying school and wanted to be a priest. My son's degree was in pure philosophy, which amongst other things ,means he can think for himself.

Don't be so defensive granny, no one would condemn you for wanting the best for you kids, we may not agree on who is the best to provide it but family comes first, and I'am sure we would all do what needs to be done to protect them.




Posted By: Salmon

Re: Election 2019 - 17th Dec 2019 4:30pm

Surely Boris did not lie to people did he ?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/boris-johnson-withdrawal-agreement-bill-1-6427587
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 18th Dec 2019 9:38am

After last nights showing of the NHS programme the media pages are full of people denying they voted Tory, that didn't take long, wait until it really hits the fan.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 22nd Dec 2019 3:32am

Wait until the final stats come through for postal votes, it looks like nearly twice as many postal votes as the previous election.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Election 2019 - 22nd Dec 2019 5:28pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Wait until the final stats come through for postal votes, it looks like nearly twice as many postal votes as the previous election.



all in Labour held seats !!!!
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 23rd Dec 2019 9:17am

Boris to make changes to the constitution, I get a bit worried when Boris says lets turn up the gas.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 23rd Dec 2019 4:21pm

Originally Posted by casper
Boris to make changes to the constitution, I get a bit worried when Boris says lets turn up the gas.


A few changes he promised are steps towards a fascist state.
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 24th Dec 2019 8:57am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
[quote=casper]Boris to make changes to the constitution, I get a bit worried when Boris says lets turn up the gas.


A few changes he promised are steps towards a fascist state.[/q

First they came for the unemployed the sick and the dying,and I did not speak out, then they came for the trade unions and I did not speak out
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Election 2019 - 24th Dec 2019 6:12pm

Originally Posted by casper
Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
[quote=casper]Boris to make changes to the constitution, I get a bit worried when Boris says lets turn up the gas.


A few changes he promised are steps towards a fascist state.[/q

First they came for the unemployed the sick and the dying,and I did not speak out, then they came for the trade unions and I did not speak out



only for 5 years.......thats why its imperative Labour can form a stable viable opposition. Boris can only get dodgy stuff passed if they all dont defy the whip. Might be some green mavericks amongst the new tory MPs.
Posted By: red_devil

Re: Election 2019 - 27th Jan 2020 9:30pm

Do not believe all that labour say; its FAKE NEWS
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Election 2019 - 27th Jan 2020 10:05pm

Originally Posted by red_devil
Do not believe all that labour say; its FAKE NEWS


Examples?
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 28th Jan 2020 8:33am

Originally Posted by red_devil
Do not believe all that labour say; its FAKE NEWS


I think more apt and to the point would be don't believe what the Tories say, they are following the Trump style of governing, lies and deceit, we now have the Right Hon Tom Pepper as PM, I would keep a close watch on the length of his nose as the weeks roll on. yes
Posted By: red_devil

Re: Election 2019 - 28th Jan 2020 12:41pm

everything they say and everything they do
Posted By: casper

Re: Election 2019 - 28th Jan 2020 4:44pm

Originally Posted by red_devil
everything they say and everything they do


A bit of a sweeping statement without credible instances RD.
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