Our chief negotiator - seeking a firm end date for her proposed membership of the customs union - seems to think that "we expect it to end in 2021" is acceptable!
God only knows what he will think is acceptable from the EU.
Not that it matters two hoots. The EU have already rejected the whole idea anyway.
We have a government composed of buffoons, idiots and dunces and there is no hope of them making any sort of fist out of brexit. We need to stop the whole nonsensical business.
Those keen to leave are free to do a little more planning before another referendum about leaving can be held. I think leaving at all is the wrong thing to do, but to do so without planning is just crazy! What a pity labour wont oppose brexit.
Putting ourselves in weak negotiation strategy from day one has resulted in us being totally walked over.
We should have started with the presumption that it will be a hard Brexit unless Europe want to negotiate anything better.
The knock-on from this has been non-EU negotiators are also taking the Mick. Never show weakness!!!
Future growth is mostly outside the EU, if we stay in the EU we get the few breadcrumbs that Europe allow us and even then we get penalised.
How much growth of our trade can we expect within Europe in the next couple of decades, virtually none, we are best out if we want to grow.
Voting to stick tariffs on 40% or more of our trade is a really stupid thing to do. Whatever you do after that is not going to make it less stupid.
Like deciding to walk down Grange Road stark naked one Saturday morning is a stupid decision to make. Whether you walk forwards or backwards or sideways or whether you play the bagpipes as you do so doesn't alter the fact that it is still a stupid thing to do and people are going to laugh at you.
It isn't helped, however, by a cabinet composed of dumkopfs who have a totally unrealistic view of the situation we are in, and argue over the fine details of a scheme that the EU has already said it will not accept. It is really simple. the EU doesn't have to give us ANYTHING. we are leaving, and have nothing to offer them in exchange for any concessions we hope for. Our government seem utterly incapable of grasping this, and are pretending to concoct schemes as if they can browbeat the EU into compliance.
We are heading for a hard brexit, the immediate effect of which will be that anything we hope to sell into the EU will become uncompetitive. That will mean closures here. Customs delays in food from the continent etc. etc. Moreover, the pound will go down a lot more than it did when the result of the resolution was announced, and we will all find food and other goods becoming a lot more expensive. Our banking industry will decamp to the EU - they have already started which is why london property prices are falling. The government will say yes to anything Trump demands in a desperate attempt to get a trade agreement - ANY trade agreement with America, and given the apparent negotiating skills of people like Davies it will be disastrous for us. As will any other trade agreement made in desperation.
One interesting fact is that things like cars manufactured within the EU have, according to EU rules, to contain a high percentage of European made components. This means that there will be a strong incentive to get them from - say - Germany rather than us. Indeed they may be unable to use our components even if they want to!.
It should be apparent to everyone by now that brexit is a big mistake. We are all going o suffer for it if it goes ahead. The sensible thing is to stop it.
Those still wanting to leave can prepare a little more carefully for it next time. If they do a proper job and outline how difficulties can be overcome I might even vote to leave myself then.
It is not a matter of SHOWING weakness as you and Boris seem to believe DD. We have PUT OURSELVES into a position of weakness which is abundantly apparent to everyone, in or out of the EU.
How can the EU be so good when most countries in the world aren't part of it and don't want to be part of it, being a member is a way of isolating ourselves in a protectionist environment of which we have no control.
We (and other EU countries) have begged the EU to be more flexible and less controlling but the EU has not taken this on board at all. It is focussed on becoming an all consuming super-state driven by power hungry politicians for their own careers and greed.
We have never had any sway with European "law", they only wanted us to join because we would be one of the main net contributors. They wanted our money and we were stupid enough to give them it. What have we got in return? Nothing!
Being honest, leaving Europe is a bad thing, but encouraging Europe to continue is even worse. The best thing that can happen is that Europe breaks up.
We are a net importer, if people want to play silly games with tariffs, it makes us richer and them poorer, who is the fool?
You are as delusional as our politicians. If you play tit for tat by raising import tariffs, you and I have to pay more!
The EU has grown and continues to grow. What does that tell you about the advantages of being in it?
It is particularly true of areas like ours, traditionally ignored by the affluent south and the Westminster government. You can thank the EU for the amount of new building in Liverpool for instance. The EU's primary objective - I will remind you - Objective One, is to get deprived areas in member countries up to economic scratch, and they have done it. Our own lot at Westminster failed for decades to do the same.
You don't seem to realise that "Taking back control" means the tories taking control again, not you, and spending every penny on London, and sucking the life out of what they contemptuously refer to as "The regions".
Brexit is a complete disaster, made even worse by incompetent and delusional handling by the UK. We are now the laughing stock of the world.
We are going to suffer badly from it if it goes ahead. Surely that is as obvious as the nose on your face.
Doesn't matter about Brexit any more this counrty is finshed, Labour and the Tories have seen to that, when my father joined The Common Market as it was called back then under Wilson, he told me that was the biggest mistake he made, over the years we have signed up to so many deals its just silly the people of this counrty never signed up for all that, whether money comes back here to build homes in Liverpool or London, we have allowed our Government over the years to get away with it and relied on the funding to come from the E.U.
Brexit is just the start after we are out the government is next, we need a fairer and more honest leaders not the corrupted bunch who think about linning their own pockets first, Laws hundreds of years old need to be scrapped and new ones brought in, loop holes for crimmals, fat cat bosses, big supermarket chains done away with, Plastic waste needs to be dealt with now, not years down the line when it too late, and we also need to get rid of bloody chewing gum!
The EU has not paid a single penny to any projects in the UK, the money has come from our own coffers but the projects have been labelled EU.
As the UK is a net importer, any tit-for-tat tariffs means that the UK makes a profit, they make a loss. How our Government distributes that profit depends on whether we allow the Tories to carry on giving money away to the tax dodging rich.
We can kick the Tories out when the lies in the media are fully realised eg that the Conservatives not Labour have always been the party that has borrowed more and destroyed our economy.
We have virtually zero control over the EU, UKIP have more MEP's than any other UK party but even they have no sway whatsoever in Europe.
We cannot fight two Governments.
We cannot survive with two Governments looking after their own interests rather than UK's interests.
The point is that the projects would never have happened without the EU. EU money WAS forthcoming. I believe the system is is that 50% comes from EU funds and 50% from the country's government funds. you can argue that the EU funds are partly UK contributions anyway, but the fact remains that Merseyside and many other deprived areas of the UK received investment which - on its past record - is most unlikely to come from the Westminster government.
As to the 'control' argument, you might as well argue that Merseyside has virtually no control over the UK government and therefore would be better off outside the UK, and go on to argue that New Ferry has virtually no control over Merseyside and would, therefore, be better off outside Merseyside and so on... This is an argument in favour of NO government - anarchy. Is that what you want?
The point is that Europe has been very good for the UK. We have done well out of it, particularly the areas that were - and no doubt will be again - virtually abandoned by the Westminster government. Of the two, I would much prefer to be governed by the EU than from Westminster. They are far better at it. The effects of tit-for-tat tariffs are twofold. 1. Trade to the EU will fall, meaning factory closures here. 2. Incoming tariffs will mean goods - including food etc. from the EU will rise in price in the shops. There will be NO profits for the government to share out, as the departure of work and employment from the UK will mean less corporation and income tax. If you think we are going to be better off after brexit, you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
The EU is a superbly successful project. It has done well for everyone in it, without subverting the individual governments. It is a union of countries and has no ambitions to ape the USA. We are beeing downright stupid in leaving!
Like it or not, all the "EU projects" for Merseyside were initiated, proposed and constructed by the UK Government, all the EU did was rubber stamp our proposals to allow us to spend OUR money on them.
If you pay a maintenance company to look after your property, it is your own money that pays for everything, the maintenance company gives you nothing.
A Government is a servant or a service, it is not a master, as such it should be democratically controllable which the EU most certainly isn't.
The only countries that wanted to join the EU (apart from stupid us) were those that are going to be given substantial amounts of money and be net-recipient. In turn the EU is abusing its position by targetting weaker, poorer countries in order to continue its take-over.
As I keep on saying, once the EU runs out of money to give to Poland, they will leave, the amount they have received has been totally disproportionate in order to bribe them to stay.
The EU can't carry on bribing the majority of members, the ration of contributors to recipients is ridiculous and unsustainable. They have had many years to get some of these countries into being contributors but it hasn't happened.
Britain is a very rich country but we are becoming a third world country day by day, putting flashy short-livid buildings up does not give value, it is a waste. The projects are more about appearance and sending money upwards to the rich than sustainable growth for the people.
Britain is a mess compared to quite a few EU countries that are poorer than us.
The USA has no active plans of take-overs and expansion, the EU has.
I don't know what planet you are on. but it's not mine. Have you never heard of Objective One funding? That was defined - by the EU - before the UK was even in it!
You voted to leave. You are responsible for the mess we are in now, and will be for the even greater mess that is to come. You should be ashamed of yourself!
Dont know how the original common market worked before we sleep walked into the EU
I don't know what planet you are on. but it's not mine. Have you never heard of Objective One funding? That was defined - by the EU - before the UK was even in it!
You voted to leave. You are responsible for the mess we are in now, and will be for the even greater mess that is to come. You should be ashamed of yourself!
So name one project in Merseyside that the EU proposed, it didn't happen.
In fact, the EU did not even propose Objective One funding for Merseyside, it was a very hard battle to get them to agree with it, despite Merseyside being widely recognised as one of the highest priority areas in Europe. Even then we were short changed and didn't get the full funding, it was cut by 30%.
Despite the supposed EU control and inspection of the Objective 1 funding, it most certainly could have been better used and some of the projects failed miserably.
I voted leave, I did not vote to leave 10% of the EU control and legislation, I voted to leave all of it. Leave means leave.
The only thing I can be accused of is not campaigning harder to ensure the Tories were not in power. I also disagree with Labour's stance on Brexit but at least that is a more logical compromise.
It's not up to the EU to 'propose projects' or to force funding on an area.
It is up to the area itself to bid for it. If they make a good case for money to be spent, it is forthcoming. Incidentally, the reason the money was cut was because the UK government - yes, that Westminster one that seem to admire so much - objected to paying their share. The EU, naturally took the view that if the UK government was not prepared to pay their share, neither would they.
You have foolishly voted to leave a successful, growing organisation of which the UK was a part, as a result of a load of implausible propaganda from groups who have lied about things like 'EU laws' - which don't exist as the EU has no law-making powers - and given power to wealthy industrialists who funded it all. The result looks like the UK suddenly faced with a massive drop in exports to its biggest customer and left adrift- possibly for decades - before any new treaties with other countries can be agreed.
It is not helped by a piss-poor government who are simply not up to the job of managing a painless transition. Rather than engaging with the EU, they are currently debating which of two alternative proposals to put to them, despite both being ruled out by the EU! Frittering away the time allocated to manage the transition are gently as possible.
It is looking as if a 'hard brexit' is inevitable. On day one of our independence, you can expect a dramatic drop in the pound, queues of lorries at Dover and Calais full of spoiling food, a large increase in food prices, border posts in Ireland followed by further terrorism there, departure of much industry, and quite possibly food and fuel shortages. I would advise everyone to set up a Euro bank account and transfer as much money as you can afford into it, and stockpiling as much tinned food as you can buy. You may not need either, but there is no harm in doing it, and you may be very grateful if you have done so.
Leaving is a very, very stupid thing indeed to do. You voted for it. You are responsible for the consequences whether you accept them or not.
Dont know how the original common market worked before we sleep walked into the EU
It worked just like the EU does now. The EU simply provided a means of establishing - by agreement - common standards for goods moving between the countries.
You can blame only yourself if you sleep walked into the EU by the way. You may have done. I certainly didn't.
You can blame only yourself if you sleep walked into the EU by the way. You may have done. I certainly didn't.
We only voted to remain in the "Common Market " which was a con because actually it included much more.
I think we joined in 1973 without a referendum, prior to that we had an agreement of association.
We never had a referendums on the occasions where we gave away much of our sovereignty. If you don't think we have lost our sovereignty look at the way it has been manipulated such that it is near impossible for us to leave the EU.
Pity the Liverpool Echo article was published in 2004 and the paper is notoriously inaccurate and politically biased anyway.
Regeneration takes time. Liverpool, fourteen years later, is no longer a 'pauper area' Indeed, judging by the number of construction cranes visible above the skyline, it's doing rather well at the moment.
Regeneration takes time. Liverpool, fourteen years later, is no longer a 'pauper area' Indeed, judging by the number of construction cranes visible above the skyline, it's doing rather well at the moment.
Far from it, many of the developments have stalled, areas like London Road are becoming an open drugs ghetto.
The massive build-up of the Universities and student accommodation is going to backfire in the long term, its unsustainable because every University town is doing the same thing.
In the mean time, certain developers and investors are making huge profits, that money has to come from somewhere.
We are rapidly heading into the same discontent and poverty which led up to the Toxteth riots etc previously.
Tory philosophy is based on the beliefs of Friedrich Hayek which Margaret Thatcher used as her handbook. Starve the poor of money and free healthcare, make the rich as rich as possible and hope some of their money trickles downward through competitive and philanthropic means. Incredibly Hayek won a nobel prize for his work.
Thatcher admitted in later life that this was a complete failure which she was very sad about, relying on philanthropy to sustain society didn't happen, it was a pipe dream.
You think things are bad now?
Wait for a hard brexit. Wave goodbye to The Ford plant and the Vauxhall plant for starters. Cuts and closures of things like libraries, benefits etc. For once, you can't even blame the tories. Brexit means the government will too skint to afford what we have now.
You know very well where the blame lies!
Here's a topical example:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44438846 Jaguar and Land Rover are moving production of the Discovery to Slovakia from next year to make room for manufacturing some 'new models' here.
I expect you believe that (a) this is nothing to do with brexit and (b) the new models will actually be made here. I believe neither, although a pilot plant may be briefly set up to iron out any production problems before the new models follow the old out of the UK and into the EU. JLR would be failing in their responsibility to their shareholders to do anything else!
The UK bribed JLR to move to Slovakia, this deal came about because we are members of the EU. It would not have happened if we were not in the EU.
If you are so convinced that you understand JLR strategy, can you explain why they didn’t move to India.
India is not in the EU. They'd have to pay a tariff on cars imported into the union, where the biggest market is.
The reason they are not moving to India is exactly the same one that has impelled them to move from the UK.
Being outside the EU is a huge trading disadvantage.
India is the biggest importer of cars into the EU so it must be cost effective.
Being outside the EU is a huge trading disadvantage.
Have you told Norway and Switzerland about this, I think they'd wanna know
This made me laugh:
Wetherspoon to stop selling champagne ahead of Brexithttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44465657Where to begin tearing it apart? I bet they sell very little, its all Cava and Proscecco - which is conveniently not mentioned. If I'm not mistaken, they're also produced in EU countries and are very cheap to buy wholesale and knock out for a tenner. So I can't imagine Tim Wetherspoon killing that cash cow.
And stopping German beers for British ones? Remind me how his little plan to stop selling Heineken worked out.
Im sick of the word....soundbite " brexit" sick of it.
EEC was a nazi idea in 40s under herman gehring ( excuse spelling )
It wont be properly done. Expect incompetence.
Ted heath commited sedition trying to get people on side of the EEC in the 70s .
Proven in court papers released by the government.
Mps will sail the uk down the river as per usual.
If you watch the EU doc on ch4 at mo it shows how much a slow complex self serving costly monolith it is.
Its like a giant party house for m.e.p.s
Why would they help the uk to end it???
I like ukips gerard batten hes cool & talks straight
Im sick of the word....soundbite " brexit" sick of it.
EEC was a nazi idea in 40s under herman gehring ( excuse spelling )
It wont be properly done. Expect incompetence.
Ted heath commited sedition trying to get people on side of the EEC in the 70s .
Proven in court papers released by the government.
Mps will sail the uk down the river as per usual.
If you watch the EU doc on ch4 at mo it shows how much a slow complex self serving costly monolith it is.
Its like a giant party house for m.e.p.s
Why would they help the uk to end it???
I like ukips gerard batten hes cool & talks straight
May has no interest in the UK what so ever she is a disgrace , She should resign .
You got gerard batten right though.Its time for the British to wake up and get there country back we have had enough lies .Britain needs someone to support the people .
Is there any ukip on the Wirral?
Talking of Brexit......Huge rally this weekend in London.
Im sick of the word....soundbite " brexit" sick of it.
EEC was a nazi idea in 40s under herman gehring ( excuse spelling )
It wont be properly done. Expect incompetence.
Ted heath commited sedition trying to get people on side of the EEC in the 70s .
Proven in court papers released by the government.
Mps will sail the uk down the river as per usual.
If you watch the EU doc on ch4 at mo it shows how much a slow complex self serving costly monolith it is.
Its like a giant party house for m.e.p.s
Why would they help the uk to end it???
I like ukips gerard batten hes cool & talks straight
May has no interest in the UK what so ever she is a disgrace , She should resign .
You got gerard batten right though.Its time for the British to wake up and get there country back we have had enough lies .Britain needs someone to support the people .
Is there any ukip on the Wirral?
Talking of Brexit......Huge rally this weekend in London.
I agree with you on May and co but, UKIP has to many right wing nutters attached to its shirt tails.
Anyone here work at Broughton, making Aircraft wings?
I am sorry for you if you do, for obvious reasons. I suspect that there are lots of companies quietly planning to do the same as Airbus but find it best to keep mum about them.
Project fear is fast becoming project fact!
A lot of my old colleagues ended up at Broughton, some are still there. We'll see what happens, its not the first time this has been on the table. The few big industries around after Maggie's destruction have got into the habit of blackmailing for hand-outs especially in the automotive industry.
Interesting to see Germany attempting to introduce legislation to protect itself from migrants at the cost of other EU states especially the Mediterranean ones. I'm glad to see Italy taking a stance against Germany on this, the others have fear of financial punishments with Germany controlling their purses.
Even more interesting is that Germany is trying to block the freedom of movement inside the EU at the same time as saying its non-negotiable to the UK??? One rule for Germany, another rule for everyone else but of course the EU is their empire.
Moving the production of the wings for Airbus planes from Broughton over to France has been getting looked at for some time. To blame Brexit.as the reason is nice and handy for them to do so.
Moving the production of the wings for Airbus planes from Broughton over to France has been getting looked at for some time. To blame Brexit.as the reason is nice and handy for them to do so.
Even moving Airbus to China has been on the cards which shows even more this is nothing to do with Brexit.
See BBC covered the remainers demo in London but did they cover the 1000 or so protestors trying to climb and storm Downing Street the other day regarding Tommy Robinson arrest... Not sure if the claims of a BBC black out about it are correct.
Tommy Robinson openly and intentionally broke the law in a deliberate attempt to martyr himself, the less news coverage of that the better. False martyring is hardly newsworthy.
The BBC provided news on the protests on the 9th and 10th June as well as follow up stories on Robinson's arrest and imprisonment since then. For an extremely small (and unpopular) political party they have had more than their fair share of air time.
BMW have u-turned on their previous statements and have said they will find a viable way to remain in the UK post-Brexit.
A number of finance organisations have also stated that there preference would be continued use of London post-brexit.
There are indications that some companies are looking to move into the UK post-brexit.
Now that the initial knee-jerk dust is settling, the economic realities are showing that the UK will still be a major economy that will have important links to other countries.
Barnier is also getting his knuckles rapped for going above and beyond what the German and French Governments want.
Spain is siding with Germany because of their financial instability making them dependent upon German funding, apart from Germany, France and Spain the other EU countries are softening to the ideas of a trade link with the UK without freedom of movement.
Germany having blown their previous red-line on freedom of movement and the lack of popularity within Germany of Merkel are starting to lose their power.