wirral forums

Rising crime?

Posted By: Excoriator

Rising crime? - 20th Jul 2017 11:34pm

The media are banging on about rising crime on the basis of the police recorded crime figures, hardly mentioning that according to the Crime Survey for England and Wales, (CSEW) it is falling!

Of the two, the CSEW is by far the better indicator. It was set up because recorded crime by the police was so unreliable, and it still is. In 2014, the recorded crime statistics were denied 'National Statistics' status - an indication that they are not considered reliable. Apart from different forces using different criteria, how much credence do you place on statistics you gather which may well reflect on your own performance?

No mention is made of the fact that the downward trend in the CSEW figures for violent crime are supported by figures collected by hospital A&E departments.

I don't know why the recorded crime figures are being taken as the truth. They seem very wrong to me. I guess you'd have to look at politics to get an answer. Bad news on crime is, however, manna from heaven to the police who are facing further cuts. It is also good news for the tabloids. Falling crime figures are the last thing either of them want to hear!

Crime seems to be unrelated to policing across most of Europe. Most developed countries have seen the dramatic drop in crime over the past twenty years despite quite different levels and ways of policing. One theory is that it is related to lead poisoning from lead based anti-knock agents in petrol - now banned. Crime falls dramatically about 20 years after it is banned.

So I'd stick with the CSEW. You can download its latest report and a little googling will reveal the questions asked in the survey, the number questioned and the detailed methodology of things like weightings. It is evidently a very well run effort IMHO. By contrast the recorded crime figures come as bald figure with little or no supporting methodological detail.

Frankly, I simply don't believe these figures.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 10:49am

Reading through the CSEW report it quotes the police figures without question but then interprets things differently by using different categorisation.

The CSEW report is hugely self-contradictory and misleading eg

"The police recorded increases across all theft categories, but the most marked were in vehicle theft offences (up 11%, from 366,248 to 407,057) and shoplifting (up 10%, from 336,322 to 369,440). Both of these categories have seen rising numbers of crimes recorded over the last few years, with shoplifting increasing in each of the last 3 years and vehicle thefts in the last 2 years. However, these latest increases were larger than those seen in the year ending March 2016 (5% vehicle theft offences, 3% shoplifting)."

So in that paragraph and the associated CSEW tables:- CSEW states the police figures for vehicle thefts increased and show 19% in the tables but then say its an 11% increase, however the CSEW table shows a 10% reduction for "vehicle related theft"

The CSEW hides the huge increase in vehicle thefts by lobbing it in with other vehicle related thefts.

What is more disturbing is it avoids the reason for vehicle thefts, whereas at one time a vehicle theft was usually a simple hot-wiring or lock-picking job, it now has much more impact because quite often the keys are stolen from the property/person first or the vehicle is forcibly removed.

Looking at the CSEW figures you would also think that anti-social-behaviour had decreased however by their own admission this is not the case.

I don't trust either set of figures (police nor CSEW) but to hugely skew favour in one direction or the other would seem to be a leap of faith that I cannot see reason for. If anything I find the police figures less self-contradictory. The CSEW is doing comparisons between the police figures and theirs but usually fail to actually come up for a reason despite the quantity of words.
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 2:03pm

An example:

Some years back, near me, a couple of revellers one new year's eve welcomed in the new year by proceeding down the street kicking off car side mirrors. Several dozen cars were expensively damaged. Now was the ONE crime or several dozen?

Well it depends if you are a police force keen to show you have been successful in reducing crime, or one worried that cuts may be on the way. In the first case, it would be recorded as one crime. In the second case as several dozen. Neither answer is wrong as the police to not adhere to any national standard for such things.

You are a fool to trust data that has been collected by an organisation that stands to benefit from a particular answer In my opinion that is why 'Nations Statistics' status has been withdrawn from the recorded crime figure.

The CSEW figures have gone up AND down over time. The people who compile these figures are unaffected by any answer, and they follow good statistical methods and explain them. Their figures have ranged from 19 million in 1997 down to 5 million now. In 1981 they stood at (from memory) about 8 million. Meanwhile recorded crime figures have had a much smaller range. (About 3 million in 1981 which rose to about 5 million by 1997 and have stayed within about a million of that figure since.

In the end, it comes down to whether you believe an independent bunch of expert statisticians running a survey of around 38,000 ordinary people's experiences of crime, or figures for convictions of the relatively small percentage of active criminals apprehended, collected with no clear methodology by policemen.

Interestingly, neither figure shows any correlation between crime and the number of policemen! This will not, of course, stop politicians pretending more policemen means less crime. Sadly, it doesn't. The matter is a lot more complex than that.

But whatever your opinion, I think you have to look at both sides of the story and I expected the Beeb to do so. It didn't. Last night's news at ten was an absolute disgrace. It was all about the 'increase'. The alternative view was only mentioned to discredit it.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 3:02pm

I'm sure if the CSEW figures agreed with the Police figures then the CSEW wouldn't exist, they have a definite motive for coming up with figures different to the police and if it is in the direction the Government prefer that would clearly be perceived as prudent.

The wing mirrors example has clearly got to be taken as twelve offences, the punishment should be more than if one wing mirror was damaged, there was twelve occasions of vandalism occurring at different times and places and there are also more victims. I can't think of any reason for classing it as one offence other than bureaucratic convenience. Clearly the deterrent factor has to be looked at as well otherwise if someone commits an offence they get a free hand to commit more

However if someone threw one rock at a car and it bounced off and onto another, that could be argued as one offence because the perpetrator only carried out one act in one place however the argument back would be that an illegal act occurred which had more than one consequence.

38,000 is very small sample, especially relative to the proportion of crimes. You have complained about small sample sizes being used for statistics on other occasions. As they have come from expert statisticians I would like to see the uncertainty figures which would demonstrate how wildcard their results are. In an uncertainty test I think you may find the police results are acceptably within the CSEW figures but CSEW have kept that quite very conveniently.

If they are going to use expert statisticians they should be producing professional reports not sensationalised differences.

Posted By: fish5133

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 4:34pm

My lad works in a city centre shop and they get almost daily shoplifters often on cctv but the police are not interested unless the value of goods stolen is over £100. Which often means my lad and other staff apprehending the thieves (usually smack heads nicking manuka honey or protein powders) to retrieve the stolen goods and then just letting the thieving ... go...and they know it as they come back time and again.
Posted By: cools

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 4:49pm

Why Manuka Honey Fish? Is it because it's expensive or do smackheads use it for something? Only asking because I take spoonful of Manuka Honey every day.
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 5:47pm

The CSEW figures cover crimes which are not reported to the police, and even minor anti-social behaviour. There is no pressure for them to reflect anything but their findings.

I'm not going to argue over the wing mirror example. Neither option is 'right' or 'wrong'. It is up to the individual police force's policy, and that was my point in bringing it up.

38,000 is a HUGE sample size. It is a feature of the mathematics of statistical sampling that the bigger the population size, the smaller the proportion you need to sample to get a reasonable degree of confidence. Thus, with a population of 65,000,000, you can gt a reasonable estimate of whether the tories or labour will win an election with around 1,000 samples. Were the population to be - say - 1,000, you'd probably have to sample a half of them to get the same degree of confidence in your answer.

Nor do I agree that the CSEW's report is in any way 'sensational'. Reporting FALLING crime surely cannot be seen as 'sensational' news! Unlike the Beeb's hoopla about the recorded crimes produced by the police. Its findings merely continue to reflect a steady fall in the level of crime seen since 1997 or so. (This is also seen across the EU. Nobody can really explain it fully)

Here are the two sets of statistics seen since 1981.

[Linked Image]

The graph is taken from the 2016 report. I was unable to copy the 2017 graph, but you can find it here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmar2017

I suggest you look at the CSEW's methodology and decide for yourself if and where there are flaws. Sadly, you cannot look at the methodology behind the recorded crime figures. They doesn't seem to be any!
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 8:25pm

Interesting that there is local anecdotal information about the unreliability of police records as a measure of crime suffered by the community.

I would reiterate that the reason the CSEW was set up in the first place was because of the unreliability of reported crime records. I am not in any way blaming the police for this. It is not really part of their job, and I have every sympathy with them very wisely deciding not to raise the paperwork associated with minor crimes when it will not help anyone by doing so.

If you want an accurate picture of the level of crime, then a survey is the best way of doing it. It has the minor disaadvantage that it is always somewhat out of date, but this at least prevents politicians from overreacting to every short-lived blip.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 8:55pm

There is a paragraph I wrote which I deleted that is about sample sizes for witnessing an event, which is entirely different from looking for opinions.

If you have a group of 10 people and only 2 witnessed an event(20%), if you interviewed 3 people(30%) out of the 10, you would be unlikely to interview someone that witnessed the event.

If you multiply all those numbers by a million or even a billion, the same applies despite an unusually large sample size of 30%. There is a huge difference between getting general opinion and looking for specific events.

I will check to see if CSEW publish their uncertainty figures, if they don't and they are using sampling then their results are meaningless. Eg if they come up with a figure of 123456 but their 95% confidence interval gives a range between 123 and 1234567 then quoting 123456 as anything near an absolute figure is highly misleading and if the police figure lies within the CSEW 95% CI range then it can be taken that the figures agree!

The police are not using sampling and hence do not have a natural confidence interval however they could/may include one to allow for errors etc based on their previous statistical experience of error rates.

Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 9:23pm

CSEW do give confidence intervals, they usually appear to be a range of around 9% which is tighter than I'd expect considering the population size, sample size and number of crimes. But they also apply weighting.
Posted By: venice

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 10:00pm

Maybe we all get an exaggerated idea of how much local crime is around , because of social media. No-one ever posts " my car wasn't stolen last night its still safe in the drive"
Every time I look at FB , loads of people have posted this that and the other have been vandalized or stolen in the Wirral area.

Got a surprise reading one of the "my car WAS stolen last night" reports on my FB page -- I didnt know that if the police tow away your 'found' car for forensics, YOU have to pay £150 to get it back, its not added to the perpetrators fine .
Posted By: granny

Re: Rising crime? - 21st Jul 2017 10:13pm

According to this , the prison population is increasing throughout Europe. (2011)

http://www.prisonsystems.eu/download/ips_esf2014-2020.pdf


Venice, I know of someone who had all their work tools ( amounting to £thousands) stolen from works van last week, another young girls had literally half her parked car ripped apart by a waggon. Because no one was hurt they weren't interested in the car, but it was dangerous driving . Both incidents were given a crime number and nothing more. Not even a visit from the police.
Are those reported crimes included in statistics I wonder ?
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 8:47am

Originally Posted by cools
Why Manuka Honey Fish? Is it because it's expensive or do smackheads use it for something? Only asking because I take spoonful of Manuka Honey every day.


Because its expensive and must be a ready market to move it on. The shop he works in doesnt allow them to keep it in a safe place. I guess also size makes it easier to steal. The only thing they can do is ban them from the shop.
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 9:19am

Certainly the media scour the courts for salacious material to print. It sells copies. The 'News of the World' (aka 'The News of the Screws') survived on this for years. The result of reading this material is that some folk are convinced that leaving the house after dark is almost certain to result in their being mugged or raped or murdered, and bolt the doors as the sun goes down.

This is a ludicrous view of reality. In fact, you are safer now than you have ever been, but a very large sector of the population are convinced that we are living in a near lawless society.

Some years ago I had occasion to trawl through copies of local Liverpool papers from the early 1900s. What struck me was the amount of violent crime including murders reported there. Almost every other day, the Echo would report some woman beaten to death or a man having his throat cut with a razor. It really did sound like the wild west. I suspect the reason for this was sheer desperation of the people - often Irish immigrants - living in terrible slums. Today, I think the reports of such events are much much rarer, and are as often as not the result of mental disturbance rather than social pressure.

We are undoubtedly safer now than we have ever been in our history.
Posted By: cools

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 9:28am

These scumbags that are stealing and just lately seem to be quite prevalent in Wirral dont realize or care what grief they leave. Just read on another site about Ice skates etc all in a black bag belonging to twice British ice-skating champion being taken from car. These were especially made for her feet so not good for anyone else.Hope she gets them back she sounds devastated.
Posted By: cools

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 9:40am

Just to say these were stolen from Ben Nevis Road Tranmere so anybody nearby check gardens or bushes, just might have been chucked..
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 11:33am

Originally Posted by Excoriator
We are undoubtedly safer now than we have ever been in our history.


Before 1995 in Merseyside:-

How much gun crime do you remember?
How many times did you see motorbikes doing wheelies?
How many cars did you see drifting?
How many parked cars were damaged other than keying?
How many things were stolen from your garden?
How many times were tyres slashed?
How many times were you threatened by someone you didn't know?
How many women did you see getting beaten in the street?
How many fights of more than two people did you see in the streets?
How many people walked past you obviously smoking cannabis in public?
How many times did the police not respond to incidents?
How many pubs had bouncers?

Apart from witnessing gun crime first hand (though I know people that have been on the receiving end), all the others I have seen in the last few years, many more than once. These were extremely rare in the 70's and 80's.

I have CCTV and a dashcam not because of my perception but of actual incidents that left me little choice. I've contacted the police more times in the last 10 years than in the previous 40.

I worked in Merseyside (Liverpool and Wirral) clubs in 70's and 80's, not once did I feel unsafe nor the need to be acutely aware of what was going on around me, odd fights broke out and they were easy to break up without anybody having much more than their pride damaged. These days just driving past the clubs worries me from the amount and type of violence I see outside them, seeing A&E on club nights is like the aftermath of mass Roman gladiator fights.

Its not necessarily just the quantity of crime, its the way the crime is being carried out.
Posted By: snowhite

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 12:24pm

School holidays are coming up, Kids will be getting to bored.

More vandalism and theft.

Posted By: snowhite

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 12:28pm

Originally Posted by cools
These scumbags that are stealing and just lately seem to be quite prevalent in Wirral dont realize or care what grief they leave. Just read on another site about Ice skates etc all in a black bag belonging to twice British ice-skating champion being taken from car. These were especially made for her feet so not good for anyone else.Hope she gets them back she sounds devastated.
I bet if it happened to them it would be a different story Cools. ... like that does not like the taste of there own medicine.
Posted By: granny

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 12:33pm

Spot on DD.

It depends how what we consider ' being safer now ' means. Maybe for a particular individual going for a walk at night, (although if someone had been mugged, it's not something to be chanced again. That usually stays with one for life) but what about the youngsters being groomed on line, and all the new types of crime ? People trafficking, sex slavery, child abuse, these crimes are the rising, but they are hidden. I very much doubt kids are safer, they can't even go to the corner shop unaccompanied today.

Posted By: cools

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 12:40pm

I definitely think crimes on the increase, nobody seems scared of the consequences if cought. Yes and more violent, that case last night upset me, that vile brute of a man beating a five year old little boy to death because he lost a shoe!! Big Big man! I hope he gets all that he deserves in prison.
Posted By: snowhite

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 12:43pm

Originally Posted by cools
I definitely think crimes on the increase, nobody seems scared of the consequences if cought. Yes and more violent, that case last night upset me, that vile brute of a man beating a five year old little boy to death because he lost a shoe!! Big Big man! I hope he gets all that he deserves in prison.
Electric chair would be better Cools.
He wont be so tough if it came to the death sentence.
Posted By: venice

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 6:46pm

Be quite interesting offering perpetrators the choice of the death penalty or an eye for an eye punishment and see them squirm as they choose . (Feeling sadistic towards monsters tonight ! )
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 7:45pm

"If you have a group of 10 people and only 2 witnessed an event(20%), if you interviewed 3 people(30%) out of the 10, you would be unlikely to interview someone that witnessed the event.

If you multiply all those numbers by a million or even a billion, the same applies despite an unusually large sample size of 30%..."


This is absolutely not the case.

The actual figures with a population of 10 with a sample size of 3 is that you have a 0.47 probability of missing all three witnesses and and a 0.53 probability of interviewing at least one. A huge margin of error. You might as well flip a coin!

Now consider a population of a hundred. With a sample size of 10 (a third of they taken for the population of 10) the probability of of missing all 20 witnesses is under 1%. The probability of interviewing at least one is 99%.

I hope you now appreciate that population size DOES matter, and you need a much smaller sample size to get an accurate picture from a large number than from a small one.

You can find confirmation from any school statistics textbook.

38,000 is a HUGE sample size for a simple question like "Have you suffered a crime in the past year" - far bigger than is needed. The reason it IS as large as that is because multiple questions are asked and the probability of suffering some crimes is tiny.

Rest assured. the CSEW have clearly understood their mathematics. Their result is credible. It would be good to say the same about the recorded crime figures, but as no data on their methodology has been published the best I (or you or anyone else) can say is that we simply don't know how accurate they are.

I suspect the lack of detail in the police figures is an advantage to mathematically naive journalists. The CSEW report requires a certain knowledge of statistics to understand and I doubt the average journo has it.

A great pity, because the message "Crime is increasing" frightens people to the extent that some are afraid to leave their houses at all, let alone after dark.
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 22nd Jul 2017 7:57pm

Quote
...seeing A&E on club nights is like the aftermath of mass Roman gladiator fights...


Rubbish. The hospital figures have fallen as the CSEW figures have. Here is the evidence:

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/04/...eated-at-aande-for-violence-related-inj/

Admin Note : Personal Insults have been reported and removed
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 23rd Jul 2017 1:17am

I have also seen massive queues during the daytime with ambulance staff and their stretchers filling the corridors.

Your own link supports what I have just said:- "but casualties peaked at weekends amid spikes in alcohol-fuelled incidents"
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 23rd Jul 2017 3:37am

Originally Posted by Excoriator
"If you have a group of 10 people and only 2 witnessed an event(20%), if you interviewed 3 people(30%) out of the 10, you would be unlikely to interview someone that witnessed the event.

If you multiply all those numbers by a million or even a billion, the same applies despite an unusually large sample size of 30%..."


This is absolutely not the case.

The actual figures with a population of 10 with a sample size of 3 is that you have a 0.47 probability of missing all three witnesses and and a 0.53 probability of interviewing at least one. A huge margin of error. You might as well flip a coin!

Now consider a population of a hundred. With a sample size of 10 (a third of they taken for the population of 10) the probability of of missing all 20 witnesses is under 1%. The probability of interviewing at least one is 99%.

I hope you now appreciate that population size DOES matter, and you need a much smaller sample size to get an accurate picture from a large number than from a small one.


Sorry, yes, I got them back to front 0.47 vs 0.53 but it still shows that with a large sample size of 30% its still roughly 50/50 whether you detect any events.

I will concede to your refresher on sample/population size.

But, just to show its not always clear cut, using my example and multiplying by ten.

If you have a group of 100 people and only 20 witnessed an event(20%), if you interviewed 30 people(30%) out of the 100.

You end up with an decreased probability of detecting an event (0.492) ... ie an increase in not detecting an event

I assume that anomaly is something to do with the sample proportion being greater than the event probability???

Or have I got it back to front again?
Posted By: keef666

Re: Rising crime? - 23rd Jul 2017 4:18am

Don't forget all the crime that goes on that never get reported,from simple things like dropping litter, drinking booze on the street, not picking up your dog poo,scamber bikes up and down the road, at least three or four a day by me, but i put the blame on the parents, most of the kids that do crime are from broken families, most don't even know who their father is or when they last saw them, most if not all are out of work and that includes the parent [ s]
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 23rd Jul 2017 10:15am

Quote
If you have a group of 100 people and only 20 witnessed an event(20%), if you interviewed 30 people(30%) out of the 100.

You end up with an decreased probability of detecting an event (0.492) ... ie an increase in not detecting an event


Wrong.

The way to do it is to calculate the probability of missing a witness after 30 attempts and subtract this from one. In other words, you multiply 80/100 x 79/99 x 78/98 x.... to thirty terms.

I make this about 0.0003, so the probability of NOT missing it completely is 1 - 0.0003 or 0.9997.

(I just noticed I slipped a decimal point earlier. If you interview only 10, the probability of missing any witness is a bit less than 0.1 and the probability of interviewing a witness is a bit more than 0.9. Apologies.)

With very large populations - like a million of which 200,000 witnessed the event - you can save yourself a lot of work by not bothering to reduce numerator and denominator by one for each term, and simply raise 0.8 to the power of your sample size. Thus interviewing 30 from a population would give you a 99.9% chance of interviewing a witness.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 23rd Jul 2017 11:00am

Doh, I think I left the sample size at 3 instead of 30. I had been using a high precision calculator because I had also been playing with 800!, unfortunately it won't got to 38,000! let alone UK population.

(80!/49!)/(100!/69!) = 0.00022 (2sd) so pretty good with your estimate.
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 23rd Jul 2017 12:29pm

Everyone makes mistakes

A chap in the company I worked for had the job of calculating spares holding for equipments we'd sold and were supporting. He came to me with some very expensive software which was supposed to help him do this. It worked fine for small numbers - up to a few hundreds or thousands - but in the quantities he was dealing with, it gave the ridiculous result that the more equipments you were supporting, the fewer spares you needed to hold!

I investigated and found they'd attempted to calculate the factorials explicitly and than divide them. These numbers are huge and quickly overflowed the machine's arithmetic. In fact, the trick is to multiply and divide alternately so keeping the numbers a lot smaller. It proved easy to modify the code. Problem solved.

So I wrote to the company who'd supplied the software pointing out that it misbehaved and offered to tell them how to put it right and was promptly offered a grand to do so. I sent them little more than what is in this post and the code patch we'd made, they paid up like gents. I put my share towards a new piano!

You can also use Stirlings approximation for factorials, although it's not much help in simple sums like this in my experience. If you are doing a more complex analytic analysis, you can often do a bit of cunning cancelling and get a nice proof using it.

You may find this interesting if you are interested in very big factorials and the like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrary-precision_arithmetic
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Rising crime? - 6th Aug 2017 8:31am

Wallasey is rampant with crime
Soon as i retire soom im leavin
The police are useless & dont turn up to most jobs
At night its like 90s LA with the rozzer copter over wallasey
Wakes me up too often
Its a weird reality that a smack head on the dole with drugs paid for by taxpayers can go into tesco, rob £60 worth of steaks , no one will stop him, police wont turn up & and the cost is paid by shoppers ( workers ,taxpayers)
Its a circle of apathy , weakness & self entitlement of even the bag heads.
The taxpayers funds EVERYTHING in the uk even crime
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Rising crime? - 6th Aug 2017 3:04pm

Serious sexual assault reported last week (not Wallasey) and the assaulted person still waiting to be seen by the police. Are they that overworked or that few of them.
Frinds a traffic cop down south, retires in 4 years on a pension more than I am earning...think it might be me nicking the £60 super market meat in a few years..Get Dilly to engineer a secret compartment on a zimmer frame to stash it in.
Posted By: Dilly

Re: Rising crime? - 6th Aug 2017 3:18pm

I will build you a Zimmer with said secret compartment fish for 20% of your ill gotten gains smile
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Rising crime? - 6th Aug 2017 3:29pm

Originally Posted by Dilly
I will build you a Zimmer with said secret compartment fish for 20% of your ill gotten gains smile


sorted. Just see if I can get to retirement age
Posted By: Dilly

Re: Rising crime? - 6th Aug 2017 3:35pm

Well if they keep raising the bar we will all be working until we drop smile
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Rising crime? - 6th Aug 2017 6:17pm

I know a co op area manager...they lose 14 million nationally of meat per year.
No staff is goin to stop ... bags esp druggys for £7 an hr.
Ah well good ol people who buy food will pay....yawn
Posted By: dustymclean

Re: Rising crime? - 6th Aug 2017 7:21pm

Things to try

Attached picture BR3NS4hCQAApRQy.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 6th Aug 2017 10:05pm

I bet the staff love having to mess around with that. Crazy people creating a crazy world.
Posted By: casper

Re: Rising crime? - 7th Aug 2017 8:28am

The news this morning informs us that child arrest figures have been drastically reduced, I have always wondered how they define a child, to what age does someone remain a child? is this why we have the rise in street crime because the police don't attend alleged child / youth crime? has this has given rise to gangs of feral youths roaming around Wirral until the early hours house breaking, stealing cars and motorcycles, thieving from cars and creating vandalism and mayhem where ever they go,it appears with a certain amount of immunity all under the guise of anti social behaviour, perhaps if they were honest they should call it what it is, criminality.
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Rising crime? - 27th Oct 2017 8:37am

Crime is rising, but arrests are falling! See the Telegraph and the Mail today!

As the CSEW figures and the arrest figures agree, it is surely more likely that the police figures are rubbish. The ONS decided this some years back

Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Rising crime? - 27th Oct 2017 9:54pm

There is a confusing relationship between being investigated, arrested and charged. I don't think you have to be arrested?
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