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Posted By: palemoon Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 8:43am
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40412343

Just how does she manage?
Posted By: Dilly Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 9:35am
Is time this age old tradition of keeping royalty was abolished ?
Posted By: cools Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 10:57am
Not in my lifetime I hope Dilly, although I think you may get your wish one day the way this country's going. Think when the Queen goes you will see a different kind of royalty and ways it is used.Alot of this money is going towards Buckingham Palace which needs updating and maintained... To me The Queen is the one thing I can relate to as being the England I knew and yearn for again. I am a traditionalist and don't want to think of us just having President's and the like. The Royal Family and Buck House is our heritage and we should cherish it in my opinion, I know most won't agree.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 11:32am
It makes a profit, why get rid?

The tourism industry in the UK is huge and a lot of jobs depend on it, even if only 1% of foreign tourists came because of the Royal Family then that more than pays for the cost. The tourist don't come here because of the weather!
Posted By: Dilly Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 12:31pm
The Beatles brought a lot of tourism to Liverpool, we never had to pay their bills smile
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 1:11pm
You don't have to pay to swim in the sea but that doesn't mean swimming pools should be free grin
Posted By: Salmon Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 3:23pm
Originally Posted by Dilly
The Beatles brought a lot of tourism to Liverpool, we never had to pay their bills smile


We bought their records and went to their concerts and films which is what made them rich so of course we paid their bills.
Posted By: palemoon Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 3:41pm
Originally Posted by Salmon
Originally Posted by Dilly
The Beatles brought a lot of tourism to Liverpool, we never had to pay their bills smile


We bought their records and went to their concerts and films which is what made them rich so of course we paid their bills.


.....and the Queen got rich just by being born.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 4:19pm
Originally Posted by palemoon
Originally Posted by Salmon
Originally Posted by Dilly
The Beatles brought a lot of tourism to Liverpool, we never had to pay their bills smile


We bought their records and went to their concerts and films which is what made them rich so of course we paid their bills.


.....and the Queen got rich just by being born.


Many thousands of other people are born as rich as she was. Don't forget she was born third in line of heir to the throne but it was expected that she would be shoved down the line as time progressed, she eventually chose to take on a role and has had to work ever since. I think she has served us proud, it is very sad to think Prince Charles may take her place, I have zero admiration for him, in fact contempt is probably a good description.
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 5:47pm
The queen's contribution to tourism is exaggerated to a ridiculous extent. It might even HELP tourism were she to stand down. Places like Buck House, and Balmoral could be fully opened to wealthy gawping grockles and we'd make a bloody fortune.

I had to laugh at the prince saying he didn't really want to be king the other day. If he'd really wanted to go there would be nothing easier. All he has to do is to abdicate. But of course he won't. It is far too good a racket to walk away from.

One further point. I wonder if anyone here has seen the possibility of this generous six million windfall being related to the queen asking Treeza to form a government? After all, if the PM can make a deal with the crackpot orangemen, then why not a little haggling with the queen too?
Posted By: Salmon Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 7:01pm
[quote=Excoriator]The queen's contribution to tourism is exaggerated to a ridiculous extent.

This link would tend to contradict that statement.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/373081/uk-royal-tourism-admission-numbers-by-establishment/
Posted By: granny Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 7:09pm


The money is coming from the Crown Estate. The Crown Estate in not out of any of our pockets. The Crown Estate belongs to the country and have increased their profits. The money is going towards the refurbishment and necessary works on Buck'ham Palace. Buck'ham Palace belongs to the country. So, the Crown Estate and Buck'ham Palace do not belong to the Queen, why should she pay out of her own pocket ?
The Crown Estate last year returned £2.3 billion to the Treasury from the profits. In fact we ALL benefit from the Crown Estate. What's the problem ?

Posted By: granny Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 7:43pm
Originally Posted by Excoriator
The queen's contribution to tourism is exaggerated to a ridiculous extent. It might even HELP tourism were she to stand down. Places like Buck House, and Balmoral could be fully opened to wealthy gawping grockles and we'd make a bloody fortune.

I had to laugh at the prince saying he didn't really want to be king the other day. If he'd really wanted to go there would be nothing easier. All he has to do is to abdicate. But of course he won't. It is far too good a racket to walk away from.

One further point. I wonder if anyone here has seen the possibility of this generous six million windfall being related to the queen asking Treeza to form a government? After all, if the PM can make a deal with the crackpot orangemen, then why not a little haggling with the queen too?


I do wonder sometimes Ex ?!!

Buckingham Palace does open to the public, Balmoral and Estate does open to the public.
Prince Harry was the one who made the comments about the Monarchy, he is not likely to be a King and will therefore never be able to abdicate !

Not sure which newspaper you read, but they don't half get things wrong !
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 7:47pm
The marching season is upon us from this weekend Ex... "Crackpot orange men" all around..... That you do have right.
Posted By: granny Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 7:56pm

Who thinks a Presidency would cost less than the Monarchy ?

2014:
In this past year, the British Monarchy cost taxpayers £35.7 million. That represents a cost of 56 pence per person in the United Kingdom.

The President of France, whose role is very similar to that of Her Majesty, cost French taxpayers a whopping £91 million.

A little further south and we find the Italian Republic. Its president performs almost exactly the same constitutional function as The Queen, bar a few political powers, yet amazingly costs Italian taxpayers £181.5m per year

Coming in almost identical in cost with the British Monarchy is the Polish presidency, costing Polish taxpayers £34 million per year. Giving extra consideration to the smaller population of Poland and comparing once again to the British Monarchy, costing a fraction more, it’s clear where the value for money lies once again.

German presidency, costing Germans at the least £30.8m (this includes £4.8m given annually to the nation’s 5 retired presidents).

American presidency reportedly going into billions, it’s no surprise this is the model British republicans try to distance themselves from.

The birth of Prince George, a new future heir to the throne, back in 2013 was a cause for great national celebration. It was also a cause for great economic celebration as the birth of the Prince caused an extra £247m to be injected into the economy from everything from royal baby themed merchandise to extra consumption of food and alcohol to celebrate the occasion.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 7:57pm
Originally Posted by lollipop
The marching season is upon us from this weekend Ex... "Crackpot orange men" all around..... That you do have right.


Didn't know you lived in Rossnowlagh lolli?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 9:52pm
Ah...Beautiful Donegal.

I don't, not even near it.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 9:53pm
I thought that was the only Orange Walk in Ireland.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Every little helps... - 27th Jun 2017 11:02pm
Lol!!!! The only one you might see on the tele.

Lots of lodges will do local little tin whistle mini parades, a few bomb fires from the opposition. All good fun the 12th. I know all you get is what Peace and harmony were living in here. Well its on the boil again I can tell you. Bloody brexit !!
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 10:10am
Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by Excoriator
The queen's contribution to tourism is exaggerated to a ridiculous extent. It might even HELP tourism were she to stand down. Places like Buck House, and Balmoral could be fully opened to wealthy gawping grockles and we'd make a bloody fortune.

I had to laugh at the prince saying he didn't really want to be king the other day. If he'd really wanted to go there would be nothing easier. All he has to do is to abdicate. But of course he won't. It is far too good a racket to walk away from.

One further point. I wonder if anyone here has seen the possibility of this generous six million windfall being related to the queen asking Treeza to form a government? After all, if the PM can make a deal with the crackpot orangemen, then why not a little haggling with the queen too?


I do wonder sometimes Ex ?!!

Buckingham Palace does open to the public, Balmoral and Estate does open to the public.
Prince Harry was the one who made the comments about the Monarchy, he is not likely to be a King and will therefore never be able to abdicate !

Not sure which newspaper you read, but they don't half get things wrong !


Good that you wonder at least sometimes. Infrequently is better than nothing.

I was well aware of the partial openings at Bucknghm and Balmoral, which is why I was very careful to say FULLY in my post.

Abdication doesn't apply only to monarchs. You can as easily abdicate from any other responsibility. Look it up.

There is absolutely nothing to stop Harry from abdicating from the duties of the Royal family and earning a living like anyone else, if he chooses to do so, but he won't, and neither will any other member of it. They are doing very well indeed from playing the game!

Your wondering evidently stopped short of wondering if the queen and T. May haggled over her allowance and the cost of May being 'asked to form a government'. Probably because your newspaper didn't tell you to think about that. Mine didn't either, as it happens, but I remain perfectly capable of thinking up such possibilities from the events rather than relying on any newspaper or media for help. Bit of a coincidence that the boost to the Queen's allowance came so soon after that formation of the new government.

You may also like to wonder whether that is the end of it or whether it will be six million more every year for the next five years too!
Posted By: granny Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 11:32am
Originally Posted by Excoriator
The queen's contribution to tourism is exaggerated to a ridiculous extent. It might even HELP tourism were she to stand down. Places like Buck House, and Balmoral could be fully opened to wealthy gawping grockles and we'd make a bloody fortune.

I had to laugh at the prince saying he didn't really want to be king the other day. If he'd really wanted to go there would be nothing easier. All he has to do is to abdicate. But of course he won't. It is far too good a racket to walk away from.

One further point. I wonder if anyone here has seen the possibility of this generous six million windfall being related to the queen asking Treeza to form a government? After all, if the PM can make a deal with the crackpot orangemen, then why not a little haggling with the queen too?
Posted By: granny Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 11:39am
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by Excoriator
The queen's contribution to tourism is exaggerated to a ridiculous extent. It might even HELP tourism were she to stand down. Places like Buck House, and Balmoral could be fully opened to wealthy gawping grockles and we'd make a bloody fortune.

I had to laugh at the prince saying he didn't really want to be king the other day. If he'd really wanted to go there would be nothing easier. All he has to do is to abdicate. But of course he won't. It is far too good a racket to walk away from.

One further point. I wonder if anyone here has seen the possibility of this generous six million windfall being related to the queen asking Treeza to form a government? After all, if the PM can make a deal with the crackpot orangemen, then why not a little haggling with the queen too?


I do wonder sometimes Ex ?!!

Buckingham Palace does open to the public, Balmoral and Estate does open to the public.
Prince Harry was the one who made the comments about the Monarchy, he is not likely to be a King and will therefore never be able to abdicate !

Not sure which newspaper you read, but they don't half get things wrong !


Good that you wonder at least sometimes. Infrequently is better than nothing.

I was well aware of the partial openings at Bucknghm and Balmoral, which is why I was very careful to say FULLY in my post.

Abdication doesn't apply only to monarchs. You can as easily abdicate from any other responsibility. Look it up.

There is absolutely nothing to stop Harry from abdicating from the duties of the Royal family and earning a living like anyone else, if he chooses to do so, but he won't, and neither will any other member of it. They are doing very well indeed from playing the game!

Your wondering evidently stopped short of wondering if the queen and T. May haggled over her allowance and the cost of May being 'asked to form a government'. Probably because your newspaper didn't tell you to think about that. Mine didn't either, as it happens, but I remain perfectly capable of thinking up such possibilities from the events rather than relying on any newspaper or media for help. Bit of a coincidence that the boost to the Queen's allowance came so soon after that formation of the new government.

You may also like to wonder whether that is the end of it or whether it will be six million more every year for the next five years too!


A) Considering that the bill and budget for Buckingham Palace was never going to be given in one lump sum, I suggest that maybe the increase from 12% to 15% of the Crown Estate profits, will continue, until the final figure has been reached. Do you really think that our Queen, gets cash in hand for these jobs ? You are severely lacking in any comprehension of how things work which has been shown from various posts you make. Only when you are challenged do you take issue and then change your mind after reeling off a load of bollocks in most cases !
Have a look at the bold type of your post, and then have a look at the red type from my post. How you twist things to suit your own agenda is quite remarkable !! Had you forgotten that Prince Harry did various trips out to Afghanistan ? was that voluntary work , or did her earn his money ? I have no doubt that which ever way it was, you will find reason to criticise.
You are a very ant-establishment man for some reason, and a character that would wish to destroy the best of Britain's young people if they didn't think just the way you wanted them to. Get rid of the monarchy and you will be 65p per year better off.
Good luck to you and your far left ideas.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 11:40am
That extra money was agreed to ages ago. There's even a topic on here somewhere.
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 12:26pm
I resent every penny of that 65p. I don't want to support this system of organised grovelling on which our constitution is based.

Your newspaper probably tells you how marvellous the queen is and has done so all your life so you believe it. Were you to devote a bit more thought to it, you would realise that amost all other countries have long since ditched the monarchy and are doing rather better than we are as a result.

The laughable Ruritarian nonsense with idiots dressed up in unlikely clothes banging on doors with a stick and all the rest of teh 'opening of parliament' show is largely fake history, designed to keep you in your place.

A little more wondering on your part may well lead you to at least conceive of a more rational system of government.

Posted By: cools Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 1:12pm
Oh what a jealous person you come across as Ex. RICH a dirty word I suspect with you...how dare there be self made millionaires who have worked damm hard to get where they are criminals!! Many countries envy our royal family and traditions and wish they had a history like ours, and whilst the queen has had a privileged life style she has also had to give up her life to duties and unlike us who could make choices and do what we wanted with our future , hers was already mapped out. Don't know how true this is , maybe a joke or fake news but I heard somewhere that Putin would like the heirs to the the royal family murdered to return to Russia to unify the people. As I say could be a joke sure you will tell me....GOD SAVE THE QUEEN..
Posted By: Spellbinder Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 1:58pm
Originally Posted by Excoriator
amost all other countries have long since ditched the monarchy and are doing rather better than we are as a result.



Evidence, please.
Posted By: fish5133 Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 1:59pm
Ex wrote
Quote
Your newspaper probably tells you how marvellous the queen is and has done so all your life so you believe it.


Agh the old chestnut! The papers "I" read are trustworthy and the ones "you" read are all lies.

The only thing I resent about the royals is they have private salmon fishing. grr. Mind you I have got my square foot of Scottish land..
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 2:08pm
Originally Posted by Excoriator
I resent every penny of that 65p. I don't want to support this system of organised grovelling on which our constitution is based.


But as explained above it doesn't cost us 65p or anything else, the Royal Family bring much needed money INTO the country.

Originally Posted by Excoriator
The laughable Ruritarian nonsense with idiots dressed up in unlikely clothes banging on doors with a stick and all the rest of teh 'opening of parliament' show is largely fake history, designed to keep you in your place.


I'm sure you have followed many dress codes in your lifetime and I'm sure you expect certain dress codes with other people. In fact what you are saying there is a dress code.

Originally Posted by Excoriator
A little more wondering on your part may well lead you to at least conceive of a more rational system of government.


The days of royalty governing this country went out a long time ago. She is a tourist attraction and a figurehead.

Originally Posted by cools
RICH a dirty word I suspect with you...how dare there be self made millionaires who have worked damm hard to get where they are criminals!!


All millionaires have made their money at the expense of others (its got to come from somewhere), also it is exceedingly rare for a self-made multi-millionaire to not have gone bankrupt at some time, debts which are never paid back at the cost to others.

Most multi-millionaires do not "work hard" to make their money, they may "work hard" but most of it is not productive it is because of their obsession with working hard. They take high risks and use others to make their money. Why isn't their a claw-back scheme post-bankruptcy?

Give me any reason why one person should be paid £1m and another only £10k when one is the producer and the other the pen pusher. Basically the skills to make big money are to be good at paperwork and/or be good at deception and that is why there are a lot of rich criminals around as well as supposed "businessmen", they are of a similar ilk.

Name a "good person" that is a multi-millionaire? The terms are virtually mutually exclusive.

I have no problem with rewarding people for performance, I object to the obscene money some "earn". What is the point of paying someone £10m every year, will their life be any richer/better than someone earning £5m? It will not, but it will make a lot of other people poorer, the money has to come from somewhere.
Posted By: cools Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 2:11pm
Fish, talk about Salmon fishing you will have to get yourself off to Alaska plenty there but you will have to compete with the Bears ha...



Attached picture IMG_0723.PNG
Posted By: cools Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 2:12pm
Sorry went abit off topic there.
Posted By: Dilly Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 2:16pm
Originally Posted by cools
Fish, talk about Salmon fishing you will have to get yourself off to Alaska plenty there but you will have to compete with the Bears ha...



Think Cools is trying to get rid of you ! Bears like fish smile
Posted By: fish5133 Re: Every little helps... - 28th Jun 2017 3:41pm
Originally Posted by lollipop
Lol!!!! The only one you might see on the tele.

Lots of lodges will do local little tin whistle mini parades, a few bomb fires from the opposition. All good fun the 12th. I know all you get is what Peace and harmony were living in here. Well its on the boil again I can tell you. Bloody brexit !!


Many years back the Lodge came marching up our road in Claughton with a mini band and a few youngsters..all seemed a little old fashioned and out of place.
Mistakenly went on a coach trip to Walsingham (High Anglican Shrine to Mary) with what turned out to be a load of red hand of ulster men and lads in the guise of a Protestant church. Spent all day distancing myself from them as all they seemed interested in was winding up the Anglican clergy and priests with provactive chants and songs. Its an interesting ceremony at Walsingham where a black faced effigy of Mary is paraded through the village..talk about steeped in superstition. Local shop sells relics (left femur of Jesus etc...lol)

gosh..seems this topic has strayed well of course
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 10:53am
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
Originally Posted by Excoriator
amost all other countries have long since ditched the monarchy and are doing rather better than we are as a result.



Evidence, please.


The whole of Europe.
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 11:02am
Those confused about how much the queen costs us may like to look at

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40425569/reality-check-what-does-the-queen-cost-us

The Crown Estate is a joke. It is claimed to be owned by the Queen, but she can't sell it, and the only money she receives from it is by courtesy of parliament. Ownership like that is nothing but a fiction. It is owned by the state. The pretence is that the queen 'gives' the state the bulk of the income. In fact its already theirs. The Queen and all the hangers on an flunkeys, equerries, and 'ladies in waiting' are paid for by us and it costs us more and more every year.

There is little evidence that any tourists are attracted by the Queen - at least those who claim it never support their claims with any. She is costing us more and more every year.

As to restoring Buck House, it is one of the most ill-proportioned ugly buildings in London. I'd suggest demolishing it and building a new palace more appropriate to a much diminished role of the Monarchy.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 12:49pm
There are much finer attractions, buildings and royal remnants in countries with better weather than the UK, the difference is the monarchy still exists here.

There are numerous statistics on tourism from a wide range of sources(the industry is heavily based on statistics), you can choose to take guidance from them or ignore them. Most of the statistics have no advantage in any bias, the monarchy bashing ones are the only ones that down-rate the value of royal tourism, the pro-royal ones enhance the value but the independent ones show a good profit.

Just the souvenirs sold and other merchandise add considerably to our economy as well as providing valuable employment. There is much more than people just gawping outside Buckingham Palace, British fashion houses also get a huge boost.

The USA traditionally don't holiday abroad but it has become a rapidly increasing industry and the Americans are obsessed with the Royal Family.
Posted By: Spellbinder Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 1:07pm
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
Originally Posted by Excoriator
amost all other countries have long since ditched the monarchy and are doing rather better than we are as a result.



Evidence, please.


The whole of Europe.


What a ridiculous answer! I think we can safely assume therefore that you have no evidence to support your assertion.
Posted By: fish5133 Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 1:19pm
Perhaps to stop all the disagreements between royalists and anti royalists we could farm the Queen off to the National Trust as they are good at looking after old things ! Auction the corgis on ebay (has she any left?)
Visited Windsor castle few years back and huge queues to get it so tourist wise doing very well, keeps loads in employment and helps look after the historic buildings of our nation. Cant really see how we would be any better off without them
Posted By: Beethoven Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 2:01pm
While I'm not a supporter of the Monarchy per se, I can understand why some people might see it as a reassuring connection to an England of yesteryear, of the days when gun and knife crime was a rarity, when seeing a non white face was a novelty, when people who kicked a football weren't paid a thousand times more than a heart surgeon and women didn't become millionaires by revealing their bosom on some tacky reality TV show. Some might accuse me of looking backwards through Rose tinted glasses, but I genuinely believe the England I grew up in was a better place than it is today, when we didn't have to worry about being blown up, stabbed, run over or otherwise assaulted by bloodthirsty Muslims who shouldn't be here in the first place.I'm sorry if I sound like a crazy reactionary racist because I'm not, I just think this open door immigration policy has gone too far in welcoming people who either seem to want to murder us, sponge off our welfare system, take advantage of the NHS or molest our vulnerable young girls, all with apparent impunity.
Posted By: fish5133 Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 2:01pm
Originally Posted by Dilly
Originally Posted by cools
Fish, talk about Salmon fishing you will have to get yourself off to Alaska plenty there but you will have to compete with the Bears ha...



Think Cools is trying to get rid of you ! Bears like fish smile


Don't like bears maybe cougars wink
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 2:12pm
Youuuu whoooo fish!! You rang
Posted By: Dilly Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 2:16pm
Originally Posted by lollipop
Youuuu whoooo fish!! You rang


Easy tiger !
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 3:26pm
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Originally Posted by Spellbinder



Evidence, please.


The whole of Europe.


What a ridiculous answer! I think we can safely assume therefore that you have no evidence to support your assertion.


You can assume the moon is made of green cheese if you like. The fact remains that not a single European nation supports a Monarchy or allows them as much interference in the state as us.

And they are for the most part doing rather better than us. Brexit will of course see the gap in our relative living standards, social support, employment protection grow even more.
Posted By: Spellbinder Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 5:41pm
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
Originally Posted by Excoriator





The whole of Europe.


What a ridiculous answer! I think we can safely assume therefore that you have no evidence to support your assertion.


You can assume the moon is made of green cheese if you like. The fact remains that not a single European nation supports a Monarchy or allows them as much interference in the state as us.

And they are for the most part doing rather better than us. Brexit will of course see the gap in our relative living standards, social support, employment protection grow even more.


Still you have failed to provide any evidence for your assertion that these European countries are doing rather better than us as a result of them ditching their monarchies.
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 6:05pm
Originally Posted by Salmon
[quote=Excoriator]The queen's contribution to tourism is exaggerated to a ridiculous extent.

This link would tend to contradict that statement.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/373081/uk-royal-tourism-admission-numbers-by-establishment/


It might, were I to be keen enough to pay them $49 dollars for the information. I'm not, so...

I know what it costs anyway. More than I want to pay. I would much prefer it to go to fire officers or building inspectors, who might have prevented the Grenfell Tower tragedy.

I can easily live without Buckingham Palace. If it makes a profit from tourists, let them pay for it.
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 6:37pm
Still you have failed to provide any evidence for your assertion that these European countries are doing rather better than us as a result of them ditching their monarchies.

Not at all. Look at their growth rates and compare them with ours. Do your own homework. I'm not going to spoon feed you with information.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 29th Jun 2017 9:12pm
Originally Posted by Excoriator
The fact remains that not a single European nation supports a Monarchy or allows them as much interference in the state as us.


Of the ten current European monarchs, eight of them are constitutional monarchs exactly the same as ours. Of the remaining two, one is an absolute monarch.

Our Queen has not interfered with matters of state, the last time this happened was in 1707. She has no significant absolute powers of state and while she can speak her mind (as can any citizen) she is mostly beheld to the the Prime Minister and Parliament. Most of her functions are "duties" not "powers".
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 12:05am
"Our Queen has not interfered with matters of state..."

Oh Yes? The meetings between the Queen and the PM are secret. Who knows what goes on in them?

GB Shaw wrote a play about a 'constitutional' monarch and the way he was able to exercise his will using exactly the sort of access to government our queen has.

In fact you really have no idea of the extent to which our monarch gets her way.


My main objection to a monarchy has nothing to do with its cost however. I dislike it most because it legitimises the idea that some people (e.g. members of the royal family) are more important than commoners like you, Granny.

Once this idea is embedded, intermediate levels of importance are introduced. Members of the House of Lords are expected to be referred to as 'Sir Bonehead or 'Lord Numbskull' and people like you, Granny, are happy to go along with this. Idiotic titles like 'Lord High Sheriff of the County' proliferate, and instead of lampooning this lunacy, people like you, Granny, defer to them.

I'd have more respect for you were you to tell them to eff off and stop being such twits, but you seem to lie being a 'subject' rathr than a 'citizen'. Time for you to have a good long think about this IMO.
Posted By: diggingdeeper Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 1:13am
Originally Posted by Excoriator
In fact you really have no idea of the extent to which our monarch gets her way.


She's a constitutional monarch, she hasn't got the political power to do much at all, the Prime Minister has the political power. Of course she gives advice from her years of experience of working with other Prime Ministers but advice is the limit of her political involvement, she can't force anything upon the Prime Minister, she isn't an absolute monarch.

The power was effectively removed from the Crown around 400 years ago.
Posted By: Spellbinder Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 7:23am
Originally Posted by Excoriator
Still you have failed to provide any evidence for your assertion that these European countries are doing rather better than us as a result of them ditching their monarchies.

Not at all. Look at their growth rates and compare them with ours. Do your own homework. I'm not going to spoon feed you with information.


Once again you fail to provide any evidence whatsoever for your assertion that these European countries are doing rather better than us as a result of them ditching their monarchies.
Posted By: cools Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 8:39am
Respect! There's a word I wouldn't relate to you Ex.
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 9:38am
Quite right! I have NO respect for an institution that is essentially parasitic.

I want to be a citizen, not a 'subject'.

And if the queen takes no part in the running of the country, surely it is obvious even to the meanest intelligence that she can be dropped without any effect on us.

In fact you have no idea of how influential she is. I suspect that Charles - who is already notorious for telling ministers what they should do - will take a much more active role. Will they do as he orders? Some won't, but undoubtedly some will. Many are hoping for a knighthood, and will not want to offend the person who hands them out.

If you are happy with this situation then I think you are beyond human help.
Posted By: granny Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 9:46am

Dear Ex,

I shall not be drawn into your continued negative obsession, as I have no wish to be accused of you suffering a heart attack from sheer anger or frustration.
A woman's tongue can lash like a King John's royal whip. Do you know anything about the Magna Carter ?
However, I will grant you the option of continuing with your 'royal rant', and providing the necessary stimulation that Wiki so drastically needs at this moment in time.
Please try to answer Spellbinder's question,.. there's a dear. We are all waiting with eagerness.
Our Queen is also the Supreme Governor of the Church of England , maybe we should dispose of the Pope at the same time and all his followers with silly outfits and funny hats ? Then we could get rid of Christianity and make do with Islam instead. Just a little on the lines of the German Royal family followed by Herr Hitler !

God bless our Queen and God bless you.
Just off to take the puppies for their morning walk. Enjoy yours.
Granny.
Posted By: Excoriator Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 8:23pm
Originally Posted by granny

Do you know anything about the Magna Carter ?


Yes, and rather more than you I fancy. I can at least spell it properly.

It was a document that gave certain right to barons and wealthy merchants (not ordinary people). It was subsequently largely ignored by both sides until it was annulled by the pope.

God knows what you imagine it was, and its relevance to the pros and cons of the monarchy. Perhaps you'd like to tell us?
Posted By: Dilly Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 9:00pm
Does he know anything about the magna carta ? Well I would say he seems to know everything smile
Posted By: Beethoven Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 10:46pm
How does one differentiate between an internet troll and a genuine knob?
Posted By: RUDEBOX Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 10:58pm
Originally Posted by Beethoven
How does one differentiate between an internet troll and a genuine knob?
Look in the Mirror? wink
Posted By: granny Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 11:02pm
Yes, probably Dilly. Anyway, maybe he hasn't seen this, which epitomises everything.




It struck me this morning that there might, to some people, appear to be something slightly incongruous in celebrating the 800th anniversary of the curtailing of the power of the monarch by unveiling a statue of the monarch.

Not at all. Because while John represented arguably the worst of monarchy, Queen Elizabeth II represents undoubtedly the best of monarchy.

While John exercised arbitrary power, Queen Elizabeth is the embodiment of the laws that protect our rights.

She represents the ultimate refinement of the principle of constitutional monarchy that has served the UK so well.

– Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond
Posted By: Beethoven Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 11:05pm
Originally Posted by RUDEBOX
Originally Posted by Beethoven
How does one differentiate between an internet troll and a genuine knob?
Look in the Mirror? wink
Spiegel im Spiegel.
Posted By: granny Re: Every little helps... - 30th Jun 2017 11:10pm

And this will explain how it has influenced the rest of the world. Just for personal interest, not in anyway connecting to remarks by the jester.

https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/magna-carta-in-the-20th-century#
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