How can something like this happen in this day and age?

No reports on numbers as yet but it can't be good.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-apartment-block-white-city-latimer-road

Good grief ! Only looked at this ,haven't seen the news yet. That's horrendous .

"Residents warned repeatedly of fire risk " What on earth is that supposed to mean ?

Going to news channel now. If there isn't any loss of life , it will be a miracle.

120 flats !

Have a look at this ....it explains my previous question.


In November 2016 a residents organisation, Grenfell Action Group, published an article on their website accusing the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea of ignoring health and safety legislation. They accused the council landlord of being an "evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia" and of misconduct regarding voting at annual general meetings. The Group also suggested "the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord". The group has frequently published articles criticising poor fire safety and maintenance at Grenfell Tower. They also revealed that residents had been urged by the landlord and council in newsletters and by notices to stay in their flats in the event of a fire.

"the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord".


lets hope that's not a self fulfilled prophecy.

Read a headline that lives have been lost..so its just a horrible numbers game.

Internal dry riser not working ..no chance for fire fighters.

Rescue services and Media seems quiet so guessing its going to be a ghastly high death toll

It's only just been redeveloped at a cost of £10m the architects must be getting worried. After previous high rise flats going up like torches the regulations are quite tough.

They say it is now believed that an exploding fridge could have been the cause. How can they come up with that unless the occupant of that flat has survived and told the authorities.

According to an interview I saw Dilly that's what happened. This guy said he lived in same floor as the guy and he told him when they both out his fridge exploded and he phoned 999 straight away. The short time it took for that fire to take hold I think it's got to be down to plastic cladding on outside. Who thought of that great idea. Doh!!!!

The new cladding does seems to be partly to blame, while the outer surface has to be fire resistant, the internal insulation/filler doesn't. This is probably fine for a normal house but it has obvious consequences for a high rise.

A terrible tragedy granny, instructions from the fire brigade service is to evacuate immediately, I cant see anyone in their right mind telling people in high rise to stay in their flats, they have got no hope of escape via the windows or balconies because of the height factor, as regards the landlord I would assume it would be the local authority and they would have to follow strict regulations as regards arrangements and procedures in the event of fire.

We can probably see what is likely to happen....the blame game ! I have been out all day so just catching up.

The most important are the people at the moment, blame can come much later on, but what these people who have escaped and the eye witnesses have experienced, must be beyond understanding. I don't know how the interviewees have even been able to speak and give their testimonies. The newscasters seem to have been in their faces all day, from the number of interviews that have been done.

Another tragedy to give BBC a further week or more to dwell on.

I cannot imagine how it must have been to see people in windows particularly children, even a movie couldn't compare.

So very, very sad. It seems to take away the differences, as we all share the same blood groups.

The sooner they prevent this happening again the better, blame should have started before they were built/modified.

Mail Online today...

Alert over new wave of exploding fridges caused by 'environmentally-friendly coolant'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ally-friendly-coolant.html#ixzz4k0gfVZRK
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

although same story appeared in 2009

Something's gone off in the fridge! Mother's terror after mysterious kitchen explosion turns house into 'bomb site'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rning-house-bomb-site.html#ixzz4k0hFM8ir
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Lost me there, Fish

I think this picture shows what didn't help, it wasn't the cladding it is the embellishments.

If only !

We have strict building regulations in this country but looking at this fire they don't go far enough, i heard on the news some one was saying they don't have any details regarding the cladding! so why the hell was it used? but what was underneath the cladding?, [and if the cladding is at fault are they going to check every block of flats where its been fitted?] Why no water sprinklers?, fire alarms? The true will come out in the end but this country does nothing about, 2009? I just hope those to blame spend many many years behind bars but alas they won't, as for watching those scenes of the building engulfed in flames had me weaping for the people inside, no one should die like that.

Water sprinklers become target for idiots to set off causing an enormous amount of damage. They have brought them in as compulsory on new builds above a certain height in recent years.

They aren't sure why the new fire alarm system didn't work, but likewise the implicit fire containment didn't work either.

the old defence of "it meets regulations" doesn't really wash, its still up to the manufacturer/designer to ensure things are safe regardless of what regulations say. It was much better when we had British Standards but some governments thought they were far too restrictive and they have been watered down to things like CE marks which mean very little.

One witness who said he was telling his friend to cover the childrens' heads with damp towels, was told that there wasn't any water ! So , either the pressure was so low due to fire appliances or pipes must have ruptured.

Sadly the gentleman speaking lost contact.

A lot of people would be running water I should imagine, it would certainly be one of the first things I would do would be to fill the bath.

I presume on a high rise the water is either tanked above or pumped, either way there is going to be limited supply.

It is Dry Riser or Wet Riser. A dry riser is kept dry to prevent freezing. The fire engine or pump pressure system connects to the riser to supply pressure.

It is possible the connection was in a no go area with falling burning debris.

I was referring to the domestic supply, not the fire suppression supply. The dry risers are fitted to eliminate the need to put loads of hoses up stairwells when fighting a fire, this eliminates a number of associated problems such as the amount of hose needed/available, the hazard when people are trying to use the stairwells and the speed of use.

Quite a few more details about various aspect of the cladding and gas main in this article https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ainst-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell but be carefule which statements are specific and which are generic.

What I found rather distasteful were the duplicated signs blaming the Tories for the fire being held aloft amongst the crowd storming the town hall. It was obviously orchestrated as the signs were printed. (I would have equally found it distasteful if the signs were blaming Labour).

Sadly Fish there is always the career banner wavers who just want to get on the bandwagon. They use anything to try to promote their own opinions. Everyone knows one.

The claddings banned over 4 floors in the usa due to fire safety
The platform ladders only reach maybe 10th floor
A bridgehead has to be made 2 floors under fire floor( 4th)
So the people at the top had no chance as BA wearers will not climb stairs that high & have enough air to reach back down to BA entry control on the 2nd.
Its the perfect storm of council apathy, arms length management, contractor profit before safety, not learning or implementing coroners advice from camberwell 2009 fire.

svenlock....A catalogue of disastrous occurences.


Don't know in this instance but when I was involved in pricing design and build work we would often have meetings with client to discuss the job and obviously cost savings would come up. Sometimes it was in the Building Contractors interest( financially) to find and offer potential savings (although not offering the complete saving). The burden of responsibility would still be with the designers. Would be interesting to know if the cladding used was as originally specified or if it was changed. Nothing illegal about that just our fire safety regs not tight enough for external cladding. Wondering why it seemed to spread so quickly internally despite so called compartmentalisation.

so heartbreaking the stories and can understand all the anger and frustration..just hope it doesn't explode into riots etc...which IMO would be a disgrace to the dead

Personally I also believe that it has now been turned into a political thing. There seemed to be a number of mini buses or coaches parked from the arial view we got. People maybe brought in from outside the area. Organised by this chap :

Mustafa Al-Mansur

CEO and Founder @Vocabridge A new breed of an LSP. 14 years of consulting and business background in IT, Telecoms, Insurance and Payments.

Unfortunately ,as sad and as terrible the whole thing is, that reaction yesterday I believe has not done them any favours. I also think Emily Maitlis's interview of Mrs May was disgusting. What is it that these TV interviewers don't understand. They know it all, and just consistently attempt to do their own interrogation and bullying on matters that they know answers cannot be given at that moment in time. Disgraceful.

Respect to the guys on the ALP just missing fire debris while pushin water up high.
Well out of BA tech bulletin 197 policy but FFs i know who are fitness champs will always have a go whatever the risk
The safety HAS come from compartment structure/ wet dry riser testing& maintanence/ knowing the building/ fire fighting devices on floors/ signage/ residents being knowledgable ie fire marshalls / sprinklers/ design & most important the RIGHT materials being used no matter the cost....
The irony is this area is v wealthy for some

The safety HAS TO come i meant

Turns out the firebrigade attended the flat where the fire broke out and thought they had put the fire out but never noticed the fire had spread until it was too late.

I've had firefighter training and its consistently imposed on you to NEVER assume a fire is out until you've checked and double checked everything and then check again just to make sure.

The fire and the consequences are most certainly not the firefighters' faults but there was a missed opportunity by carelessness. I'm sure they feel very bad on themselves but that's their job.

The government are partly to blame, they sat on the safety problems since the wake up call in 2009 - did they really think that was a one-off and it would never ever happen again?

But the main blame is the cladding manufacturers, it doesn't matter if it meets standards or not if it is unsafe. They test the stuff, they know what can happen, they still produce it.

Anybody that lives in Liscard House will be pleased to know the insulation infill there appears to be one of the safer ones available even if it isn't mineral insulation - but demand it is thoroughly checked anyway.

For successive Governments that have promised to de-centralise London, very little has been achieved.

With the levels of electronic communication we have these days there is very little need for any centralisation