A number of fatalities, Manchester Arena.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-40007886

just caught it on news. Doesn't sound good.

22 now known to have lost their lives, a lot of who will be children. Just what can be done to stop this sickening terrorism?. So easy for politicians to say we must go on with our lives as usual but they themselves are well protected. If this was an attack by an Isis inspired terrorist,then the Muslim community in Britain must do more to root these people out ! . Rip all who have lost their lives and thoughts to all the injured and to the families of all affected by such an horrific act.

Oh my god , just woke up to this. Just terrible , poor people. What's to be done about these monsters? They blow themselves up along with innocents so hard to stop. R.i.p all the victims and my thoughts go out to all the families. Makes me weep the way the world is.

The overwhelming majority of politicians in our country are not "well protected".

Very Sad news heart goes out to all

when children are used as a weapon of warfare it's up to adults of this world to step back, reflect on what they have created and let young people decide humanities way forward.

love and respect to all in Manchester this morning and all children out there dreaming of creating a world full of pace.

I think they've got to start hitting the family's of these monsters. You must have an inkling about your child's behaviour and notice changes going on and report them...Dilly's right if this is a Muslim terrorist then the police have got to get more information from the community. Another thing whenever these attacks have happened it's usually revealed that they were known to the police, well blow Human rights if there is a sniff of any such behavior then put them somewhere under lock and key, Guantanamo bay type of place in my opinion.

cools the sad news is that police will say he was known to them and police will be outside mosques then we get muslims on the news saying "it wasn't me/us" bullsh!t

Unfortunately, it's a major step backwards within the Manchester region. If it is related to the Muslim community, after all the work that has been put into multi-culturalism , I fear angry Northerners might retaliate this time because it was clearly directed at the young .

What a dreadful world we live in. I can't see the people of Manchester taking this, reprisals will perhaps make people feel better but it won't solve the problem. Where next?

The Muslim community need to wake up if they want to live in harmony in this country. There may be reprisals which can be understood when our children are now being targeted.No it may not be the best way forward but what are ordinary folk supposed to do,just sit back and take the murder of innocent kids in their stride ?

Well Ariana...maybe you will now have a different outlook on life

From 25 facts about Ariana

5. I wish every day were Halloween.

6. I have had a sick obsession with horror movies since I was little.

7. My mom thought I'd grow up to be a serial killer because I wore Halloween masks around the house.

16. I love theme parks and look forward to Universal's Halloween Horror Nights all year.

Makes me wonder if these suicide **stards specifically choose their targets..

Well if it was targeted because of her they know more than I do,this morning was the first time I've ever heard of her.

I too have never heard of her Dilly..well I think they will have to increase the security around venues like this, football grounds etc and not let anyone in without going through scanners like airport's have and searched , no one should be allowed near the place no matter what without this happening. No waiting around in the foyers or where ever. Sad it has to be like this and know it will cost alot if money but artist's and management have to take less profit.

Me neither, Cools and Dilly but Fish must be up to the minute. He's a proper little groover isn't he ?

Sadiq Khan ...London stands united with Manchester ! ?

No good standing Granny, something needs to be done. Actions speak louder than words !

Dreadful - but lets just hope it was just one mentally sick weirdo . I so hope its not a Muslim, because I doubt Manchester will take this lying down . Totally agree we need more information of potential terrorists from the community , and punishments for those proven to have witheld such knowledge.We need to infiltrate the communities more too, sod human rights.

Agreed, but Andy Burham as new Mayor of Manchester has just announced there will be a vigil tonight. The latest way of appeasing peoples anger it would seem. If we get blown up, ...have a vigil.

What good is that ??

I don't know what the answer is Granny but something other than lighting candles needs to be done. Maybe Mr Khan needs to look deeper into talking to the people of his own faith before he goes out telling us we all stand together because we so obviously don't!

We are constantly being told that these people bring their culture and traditions to enrich our country, well I've yet to see it,if murdering and maiming women and children and raping young girls is part of that culture then it is not wanted here, as some have pointed out a lot of what goes on is common knowledge among their communities and they are being protected, and the reluctance of the authorities to deal with it is there for all to see, political correctness gone mad.

I happened to catch an episode of cant pay take it away, whilst clicking around the tv channels, which involved an Asian car dealer who owed money, he threatened the bailiffs with violence, he bragged he could have gangs of people there within minutes, which happened, they turned up assaulted the bailiffs in front of the police, they obstructed the police they assaulted the police, they were eventually arrested but were later released with no charges being made, they showed nothing but contempt and arrogance toward the police, basically you cant touch us, and from what I saw they were right, a law unto themselves.

Arianna Grande is young female singer and star of Disney channel show sam and max she is a big with kids, now the arndale centre is getting closed

Makes me sick to my stomach. Islamic State have just
claimed responsibility.

And who created ISIS?

When you do something that has inevitable consequence, then you are responsible for those consequences.

Yup, kick out the establishment and leave a void . We dont learn do we, already saw what happened in Libya but off we went again .

(Doesnt mean I have any sympathy for this sort of action though of course. )

Not today please!
Who Why What tomorrow.

Im sure we all have sympathy for the people affected Dusty and respect their privacy and sensitivities etc but I dont think what is discussed on a local forum away from Manchester, is disrespectful in any way. Terrorism is very much everyones business and concerns us all . Anyone who is upset by this topical thread where people are just getting their thoughts off their chest, can surely easily ignore it, by title ?

.

I respect the right of those who think discussion is too soon, to not participate Ed. Everyone is different.

Venice I wasn't having a go at you it's what DD put down which I think was too soon

We all react differently Ed . Ive no problem with anyones comments on the subject . Some of us are consumed with compassion and only want to think about the suffering of those involved , others like me feel the compassion but on here, side line it and explore more their anger by remembering causes and what might be done . In one way you could argue that DD's comment, which I happen to agree with, just offers a view to those who may want to be considering it, as to why such attacks might be happening. It doesnt mean in ANY way we condone such attacks AT ALL .Understanding and condoning are in no way the same.

If things were never discussed they could never be solved. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Admin Note : Provided they are not personal...

Bang on Dilly. Accepting that your Govt (amongst others)whether with the best intentions or not, has participated in actions that have caused huge bitterness in another country , doesnt mean you automatically have a carte blanche 'love' as you put it Ed ,for the whole culture of that country . You dont even have to like the people or their culture to understand/accept that some groups in their country do have some grounds to disike our interference. Thats just thinking fairly. None of that is 'making excuses' for the dreadful terrorism that is taking place though , because thats just a small number of warped extremists , and for them, there are no excuses. Just for the record, I dont believe in Multiculturalism , in my book, you want to come and live here, worship who you want , but you accept our way of life and integrate, or you push off.

Heard Adrian Chiles on radio this morning talking to a young girl and mum who had been at the concert and asking where they were etc etc when the bomb went off . He then asked the little girl in his usual drole if the concert was any good...doh. He was either trying to be clever and divert the little girls mind away from the atrocity or just insensitive.

p.s. I never heard of her either..just did a bit of research.

I don't know how tags work but
What gets someone onto a suspect terrorist watch list.
If there is a shred of evidence why not "tag" them with a device that sets of some sort of alarm as they near a certain distance of a packed venue or other.Ban haversacks or have a "cloakroom" of sorts where they could be examined by a scanner prior to releasing one as they do at airports.
At these concerts you're not allowed to take bottles in (might affect any profits off selling their own stuff inside).
minimum wage security?

I think they will seriously have to upgrade security at these things in future.

I only heard about this when I got up this morning,it's upset me more especially as I have kids that age & the older 3 have been to concerts in Manchester in their teens.my 18 year old is off to a concert on Saturday at old Trafford cricket ground,he's still going as last nights events havn't put him off & the concert is still going ahead,my eldest daughter was at the Take That concert in the Echo arena last night but she's got a 13 year old daughter who will be wanting to go to concerts.You worry about them going to these events but you never think something like what happened last night will happen.

The bombs weren't in the concert hall, they were in areas before the search area.

The bombs were triggered at the end so that maximum people would be in the area of the bombs.

People are tagged basically by their known locations, known associates, patterns of travel, purchases and patterns of expenditure/income.

This is gleaned from phone usage, banks, foreign travel, number plate tracking and facial recognition.

Well, we've had the usual condolences from Nation on Nation world wide, but the only one that actually meant anything was Australia's PM. His message was sincere and heart felt, the rest, once again puppets on repeat programme. Shoulder to shoulder, must stand together, must work together, and tomorrow not one of them will do another thing of any value to stop it.

Terror threat been upped to critical.. Armed police on the streets , Liverpool as well..I feel so down about it all. Can't see a solution these people won't talk, they just want their sick ideals and way of life to be carried out. I just want to take me and mine and find somewhere peaceful, unrealistic I know, just have to carry on in this wonderful way of life that seems now we have to accept, horrible and very worrying. What a beautiful day weather wise but what an awful day as well.

one radio presenter got it right when he passionately described the terrorist as "a piece of human excrement"

Ironically Ariana named one of her dogs Fawkes.

Worth noting that last time the threat level was "imminent" - after Glasgow airport in 2007 - there was no follow up attack

Mainstream news will not report this:

http://www.mcb.org.uk/manchester-attack-muslim-council-of-britain-statement/

On a local level: a friend status' on Facebook

I have several Muslim regulars at the shop. My favourite is a young woman whose pregnancy I followed since we opened. She brought her baby in a couple of weeks ago to say hello. She's tiny & beautiful & very timid & today she seemed particularly so. I asked how she was & she was shaking & said 'scared'. She'd been shouted at in the street on her way. And do you know what, she kept saying 'I know they're scared of us, I understand'. And I said no, no, don't feel bad for these people, and I kept saying sorry & tried not to let her see I was nearly crying. I walked her to her car, she was terrified. And this, and worse, will have been repeated across the country, the world, today. While others mourn their lost children, this hate helps no one. I feel profoundly depressed on every level.

Easy, ban religion.
That is the cause of all evil.
Nonces
Terrorism
Money laundering, i could go on but i`m tired and must go to bed now.
Have 5 tonnes of rubble to shift by hand tomorrow, don`t have time to discuss the mental peoples beliefs of thier so called `gods`, sickens me how a normal person who has a few problems in their lives can end up in a mental institution yet we have these mental cases running around going on about their fake made up story `gods`.
Yawn.
Toodlepip

That horror known to intelligence and known to have Islamic links!! As I say he should have been pulled and put somewhere, I don't care about his human rights and whatever, in some other countries he would have been killed straight away for less than that. First sniff in my opinion should lead to incarceration. We've got to get tougher on these beasts, it's not racialism it's just trying to protect ourselves.

To Rude I will say of course people are angry. This attack aimed deliberately at our children was an act that has taken terrorism to a new low. From what I understand from what you say this young women was out shopping the very next morning, did she not think that emotions were going to be at the highest level? . Yes she may be a good person but children had just been murdered in the name of her religion. A religion that is so wrong on many other levels apart from the terrorism. I personally have seen no evidence of the Muslim community wanting to integrate.I have seen streets in Birkenhead that are now completely occupied by the Muslim community, is this a sign of integration? A young girl of 8 was killed at that concert so of course people are angry and I would like to think even you can understand that anger.

Could they do anything else ? should they be applauded for showing common decency? maybe a mass rally and march denouncing these actions, if I remember rightly, when Satanic Rights was published, there where rallies they were quick enough to call jihad on the author, we have had evil within our own religions and thankfully it has been nearly dealt with, they should start doing likewise with theirs and stop defending the indefensible.

Hate is probably the first step to radicalization.
A Mr Dick helped a young girl of fourteen, "She came out of the smoke shredded with a plastic bag melted to her head" said.
" anybody who makes political capital or hate out of this is as bad as the bomber"I agree with him and invite a couple of posters from yesterday to read them again and explain to me your contribution to sorting things out with no facts to hand.( I so hope it is not a Muslim) What difference would it make to the eight year old and the other poor soles. A second front would not help us understand what is going on, or is that your wish.

I'm f#cking angry at the needless death of our children and if you can't understand that we'll I don't know what to say to you. I have 2 young girls in my life around the age of the 8 year old that was brutally murdered . I don't know what I would have done had either of them had been at that concert. I can tell you though it would not be to embrace the Muslim culture .

Maybe we should all be looking further ahead. According to the latest news, this suicide bomber returned from Libya a few days ago.

He has performed an evil act, why should we feel compassion towards others of the same mindset ? There are plenty of them in Libya, and nobody is doing anything to stop this so called humanitarian crisis of boat loads arriving on our shores. Not in North Africa, not in southern Mediterranean countries, not anywhere in Europe and not here. We have all been badly let down, for what would now seem far too long and now the children are caught up in it.

Human error against suicide bombers....= nil point .

I am thoroughly disgusted at ALL our leaders.....leaders of what ,I have to ask ? That is where my anger is, no one listened to common sense for fear of being branded racist.

Talking shite will not help. Anger and hate are two different things believe you me I am angry and pissed off.My Niece and Nephew were on CH5 news last night They just missed the bomb, I have a grandson of 14.I think you assume to much.

Then stop talking Sh!te.

The key word in all the attacks around the world is Mulim !

I understand your anger. Go and have a lie down.

And you may want to just go Bury your head in the sand.

You can't blame people for getting angry and frustrated, every time this happens we get the wringing of hands,vigils, stay calm and stand together but it's not working!! We need to get tough and the Muslim community need to do more.we need much more information to from them, they must have suspicions of places where radicalized people go. I wish we could turn time back to when I grew up. We didn't have much but even with the IRA troubles we weren't this scared...

Just like the "Christian" countries need to put pressure on their "Christian" leaders to stop the aggression.

We have killed far more people with far more bombs than ISIS.

We decimate their countries and seem to expect no retaliation, then whinge at a small scale attack against us - how deluded!

Before I get the usual diatribe back, this is not apologist, it is reality!

Perhaps you should write to the whinging, deluded parents of the children who were blown to pieces and explain that it was only a small scale attack so they should just get over it.

maybe we should start doing it again,where can we get a list
that this rat was on?

.

By the way DD, no apologist in history ever thought he was being anything other than realistic. .

How can we go around bombing countries that we are not even at war with.

That is terrorism.

The keypoint is the Muslim religion, some of the ideals of the allegedly moderate Muslim religion are the same as those of Isis, maybe not as radical but still they have some of the same goals, that is why the moderates won't do anything other than give lip service, they wring their hands and give their condolences over the killings, but they will not stand up and condemn their aims outright, because they see that as betraying their religion.

Did you see the statement to the press from the Didsbury Mosque, Casper ?

No I never granny, I am guessing it was condemnation of the bombing and condolences to those that lost their lives and their families and the injured, no more than any decent human being would do, ulterior motive would also be to deflect away any blame or attacks on the local Muslim community or the mosque.

[youtube]v=P8CP-xo4FTE[/youtube]

Vigils, demonstrations of solidarity may not appear to 'do much, on the surface' but they do. By communities coming together there is opposition to the alt- right movement and their twisted ideologies.

I understand that most anti-immigration/ anti- Muslim type people are fearful, 'traditional' in their outlook. (I am aware that the pitchforks may come out if I suggest that they could be brainwashed by the media *cough -so I won't -cough)*

However, alt-right groups capitalise on such horrific Events- these groups are just pure evil. I'm not going to list the 'groups' and 'divisions of said groups or report on their Social Media recent activities but they have been 'dining out' on Monday nights Horror.

This is why communities stand together to oppose them, this lot appearing in Manchester for instance:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...r-attack-protest-shut-down-a7752201.html

This lot are coming to Liverpool- so, they say- on June 3rd. Heard it before, on here when it was the White Man March- 'oh, just let them have their march and platform' etc but there are a lot of dis-satisfied (un-educated) young people who are dis-enfranchised and will take their 'Muslims steal all the jobs'typical bollocks and join them.

The 'gormless and un-educated' are just fodder- of course, the same applies to IS and the likes...we cannot let fascism rise again #NoPasaran

Only just saw this, Dilly. Yes, of course, I'm angry- livid. Very upset about the loss of life, like everybody. However, I do not understand how people show hatred to a woman because others have murdered in the name of religion, that she happens to share? We never see headlines 'Christian Joe Bloggs- rapist' or 'Atheist Joanne Bloggs-caught shop-lifting'. When white C of E....or whatever....have committed atrocoties I have never 'apologised' on their behalf- why should peaceful loving Muslims?

To be honest (grab your pitchforks, folks) I feel un-easy about the 'child victim' angle as portrayed in mainstream media. Sure, Adriana Grande appeals to kid-kids but she also appeals to young adults, too?! (and pervy old dads)??

With regard to your comment about integration- yes, there are difficulties, I know that there are 'communities' housed in close proximity to each other and I don't have the answers. My understanding is 'fear'- Muslim people fearing us because of what they think they know about us - 'we hate them, we do not tolerate them'- That description does not describe me, atall.

Was in HomeBargains today with Plus, daughter and grandaaughter checking out the Pringles on offer...a Muslim lady came over to check out the Offer- did not for 00.1% second think she was wearing a bomb belt

Rude, I am those things you say, traditionalist, patriotic, and yes anti- immigration. I'm not ashamed it's my beliefs as yours are you and you passionately proclaim them...I'm alot older than you and remember how we were. This is not the country I grew up in but I know things have to change.I just want to think my grandson has a future and grow up without all this violence and worry.I can't be like you Rude, I'm afraid I will be very wary of who I stand next to and distance myself if I can. Call me racist if you like but I like to call it self preservation..

Maybe go to the next 'Visit My Mosque' Event, Casper and raise your 'issues' with the Iman'

Well said Cools. We don't have to bend to forced public anecdotes making us appear to be anti anything. Too many people are forced to keep quiet through wrongly perceived interpretation, and it's time our thoughts were also heard.
This case now just shows the degree of greatfulness there is in the 2nd generation refugees. Not the first time is it ?

Casper, with regards to the Didsbury Mosque.

The director of the centre’s trustees, Mohammad el-Khayat, then said: “The horrific atrocity that occurred in Manchester on Monday night has shocked us all. This act of cowardice has no place in our religion or any other religion.

“We encourage anyone who may have information about the individual involved to contact the police without any delay so they can assist with their investigation.”

He expressed anger at some reports of Abedi’s links with the mosque.

“Some media reports have reported that the bomber worked at the Manchester Islamic Centre. This is not true. We express concern that a very small section of the media are manufacturing stories.”
..............................

Last paragraph seemed to be the main message , repeated more than once to affirm that this bomber did not 'work' at the mosque. Of course he could have been a prayer man (don't know their full name) in the mosque and he obviously attended otherwise they would have mentioned that too.

I think there is a general fear within the communities, and any attempts to minimise the possible threats will take their course. Who can blame them , but with that scenario, why do they never outwardly condemn these individual people who are not in fact following the Muslim faith, which by all accounts is very strict, and admit the truth ? These animals have to be lapsed Muslims, with an inbuilt hatred for society. We don't need them on our streets.

I'm sorry that you feel that way Cools but you have your view and I have mine- of course, I want my GD to have a future too, obvs. If we stop fighting 'hate with hate'then that would be a start?

Will not be seperating her from 'brown skinned'people at the Snack Time Table- ridiculous!

And neither would I Rude. It's a beautiful time being a little child , you don't know about all these bad things going on ,thank goodness and all you want to do is play with others and have fun. Unfortunately that changes and we grow up and start forming our own opinions. I would never try to influence and speak against anyone to a young child or at any time, some cultures drum it into them from an early age...

Go bang you drum somewhere else. Right now we are to angry to talk to drum bangers.

Who is 'we'? *CoughTitheadCough

Someone contributing to this topic is a thoroughly unpleasant person.

The we I refer to are the decent people of this country that are outraged at the murder of children !!! Not someone that would protest about anything from a bad smelling fart to a bent carrot. Oh and it is Mr [censored] to you thanks !

Oh and by the way Rude you are the first person I have seen mention colour, this is about a religion and a set of beliefs not colour.There are people of all races that follow this religion so please don't try to make this a racist issue ! . Mrtithead.

Pull them all in, every bloody one if them. Put them in camps, vet them to the last. Dig deep in their history. Only then, let them back on to our streets to clean live, as some of them do. Then deal with the ... that's left. Take our country back. Rule again. We've let them run like rats around us, mosques built, markets on t.v that look like no where in england, you would think you were in. " old Baghdad " watching it.

Its going to take a 100 years for this to move through history, not over night.

Whey hey lollipop, well said and well done for saying what a lot of people are afraid to say.I for one applaud you. Now you must face the sound of those distant drums I'm sure you will hear them x

I think the only person I could raise my "issues" with would be Allah, I would ask him why Muslims must strike at infidels and rid the world of none believers, and promise the gullible that their reward would be to be met with 70 odd virgins when they reached paradise( those 70 odd being women, second class citizens to be used as when and where) I would ask him why he told his followers that Christianity was a lie and that Jesus was a false profit, and why do they hide their faces, are they ashamed? I could go on about gay people etc, etc.

Did anyone else start singing "Distant Drums" by Jim Reeves to themselves?

I wish to apologize to mark for not adhering to "The Wiki Spirit"I knew my post was a tad to far and fully expected the outcome.
When a poster accepts that he is inviting Q--before I get the usual diatribe back" "the sound of distant drums" don.t start crying like a crowd of school girls because some people have a different view.
I have no religion but do not mind casper acknowledging the existence of Allah, Rudebox has been on my ignore list since being accused of stalking (disagreeing to often) Beethoven grow some balls and say who you mean. I have been on more than half a dozen Wiki Meets so I have the advantage of knowing who I address sometimes.I have a lot of respect for Mark and what he does.I just wish The Famous Five would treat everybody with the same decorum.I apologize for not being able to hate (sarcasm)I would feel privileged to shoot anybody taking part in terrorism not because I hate them but because they deserve it.I expect the same from our armed police and troops, if one let loose tomorrow because of hate we loose.
Please do not judge me for what I write because more than likely you will be wrong. Respect!!.

Thank you Dustymclean but my gonads are quite well developed thank you. I have had my membership withdrawn on several occaisions for having the temerity to criticise the person to whom I referred and have now decided not to mention the member by name as he/she can apparently spout his/her bile with total impunity. But thanks again for taking an interest in my nether regions.

No Problem, Keep on polishing them, you may need to use them again sometime soon.

" Drums " ???? Not interested

Now iam on a wall building job soon!! Just waiting for a call from my good friend Donald!!!

I've got into a heated debate with people on Facebook about this. As a liberal atheist I have no more time for Islam than any other religion. It's all guff to me. Many would claim that Islam is a religion of peace which is being hijacked by extremists. Unfortunately, Islam is not a religion of peace, it's a religion of barbarity. Take for instance:
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/wife-beating.aspx
or indeed
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/homosexuality.aspx

Fundamentalist Islam is mental poison and armed superstition. Parents pass this on to their children. The cycle of ignorance continues in the 21st century. What is the answer ? We could demolish all mosques in the UK, seize their assets and give them to the NHS. That would probably just create further war and bloodshed.

I wish peace and enlightenment through science on the Muslim communities in the UK. Let them abandon their poisonous nonsense and come and have a drink with us.

My granddaughter and son in law were close to the bomb when it went off and although they were unhurt, were pretty traumatised by what they saw.

I wish some of our politicians would take some responsibility for this though. (None of them do) Right or wrong, it is a response to things we have done with the Americans in the middle east and is the inevitable result of these military exercises. We are in a war, and bad things happen in wars. In my book it is the politician's primary duty not to indulge in them. Wars are failures of diplomacy in the end.

Finally, I can't see why the pictures that the USA published should have been kept secret. They are not images one would wish to see, but I can't see how secrecy helps anyone. Also, given that they were secret, I can't see why they should have been shared with the Americans anyway. Do we receive pictures of shootings in drug stores in America?

Perhaps someone will explain.

Just been mentioned on the news that 5 terrorist attacks have been foiled in the UK since the Houses of Parliament attack in March and 18 since 2013. That would indicate to me why they don't want intelligence sharing leaked. The New York Times also gave the name of this latest terrorist before our own police, and the reason our own released it so soon in this country.

They have also announced that the UK police have atm stopped sharing intelligence with USA.

Taking those failed attacks into consideration, people do have a complete right to be very angry and voice their opinions, so long as they don't turn physical which can easily happen. IMO.
The general public have been quenched over and over again and those responsible of the crimes know there is no retribution. My personal opinion is to send their family members and extended families back to the land of origin we need to forget the human rights issues in those countries, as it would seem, not too many considered the human rights of any who have succumbed to such attacks, that might make them think twice and it might not.

Mouthing off against Allah, will only make them more determined, that is the biggest insult and greatest cause of anger within the Islamic Faith, so be warned ! However, I think some are getting confused with followers of Islam and those who pretend to be of the Islamic faith ! They are killers.

Whatever is going on right now, it's like a cancer. War ? yes Id' say so.

We all have our own opinions dusty, who is to say who is right and who is wrong in their appraisal of things, By the way I am also non religious, I did not recognise Allah as you put it , my post was a generic response to a post from Rudebox who suggested I seek some answers from an Imam, perhaps we should all read the koran and find out for ourselves what the true intentions of their religion are.

I would no more read the Koran than I would read the bible,but if you do read it Casper be very careful! We don't need any more converts

I know I won't be going near any mosque , meeting an Imam and deffo not reading any of their literature. Better things to do with my time, I just don't want to know about their way of life , the same as most of them don't want to know about mine or anybodys else's who ain't a Muslim...

Having read the bible several times and tried to read the Koran (an English translation) . The bible is at least quite interesting and poetical and mystical in places in contrast to the Koran which was a very difficult and boring read. Imams wouldn't consider an English translation of the Koran as "Holy"

"Love Not Hate" slogan

Don't quite get what is meant by that. Hate is a good emotion in the right circumstances.
I certainly don't hate all muslims and I certainly don't love all muslims.

Did anyone watch Question Time last night ? Interesting input from a young Muslim woman about how there are Saudi funded Mosques which should be stopped in her mind. Saudi's practice the Wahhabism branch on Islam. Nazir Afzal the Former Chief Prosecutor for North West England agreed with the young woman, and I find it quite ironic that when all groups are trying to find a reason or reasons , hoping to find a possible answer to these dreadful means to an end for IS,and yet this man has not brought such knowledge into the public domain, it has taken a young woman on Question Time to raise the issue.
There was a petition for the Government opposing this involvement of Saudis just last year. Runs for 6 months and only got 10,000 votes. Had any of us known more or even known about the petition, things could have been different on the matter.

The Saudis probably have one of the most strict and extreme models of Islam, worth reading this article , printed just 7 days ago. It helps to explain what I and maybe others didn't know.
Time to put an end to Saudi funding, and bringing in Saudi Imams to teach in the Mosques !!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ctionary-branch-of-islam-said-to-be-the/

Have a look at 26 mins. to 29 mins. including Dimbleby ability to brush over the gentleman's claims.
Then watch 47.28 mins.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08s0brl/question-time-25052017

I was aware of this granny, and the largest percentage of Mosques in the UK are Saudi funded, but sadly nothing will change this whilst our government are blowing in their ear, oil, arms sales, are obviously more important than the well being of UK citizens and the human rights of Saudis, a good start from the government would be to stop the funding for these Mosques, stop any one who has fought for or supported Isis from returning to the UK, and round up and deport the 3,000 suspected terrorists and any one who is associated with them, seeing as they have declared a jihad upon us,
some of them being UK subjects logically speaking could be charged with treason.

So you want them to be charged with treason but not tried for it?

That could well include you for all you know. If they had hard evidence they wouldn't pussyfoot around but guilty by association casts far too wide a net.

You have to be charged with something before you can be sent for trial, otherwise you would be standing up in court and when asked what the charges where just shrug your shoulders and say I don't know, or on the other hand you could say treason as charged.

Well something needs to be done DD, the security service has said they cant keep a watch on them all, and while they are out there they are actively brainwashing and recruiting more, they are using our democracy against us even laughingly calling benefits Jihadi seekers allowance, using the justice system against us in a waste of time trouble and effort, a line needs to be drawn.

How about banning the hijab ? Would that make a difference to strict Muslims, to a point of not wanting to be here in this country.
Some wear it some don't, so I assume it relates to which ever branch of Islam they belong to.
I still don't understand the reason for it, said to be a modesty thing and they should not display their beauty to men other than husbands etc.! Modesty ?? Why then do they plaster their eyes and lips with make-up ?


A definite ban should be placed on the niqab, and burka IMO. There again we'd have the Shami Chakrabartis' of this world calling the tune once again.
We are consistently being put under more and more pressure to abide by their rules until our own laws will be outlawed and I don't believe they should have any rulings in law . When did the Christians have the laws changed for the purpose of incorporating the faith ? If anything it's gone the other way.
Over fifty per cent of UK population have no religious beliefs and ceasing to be a Christian country. Like a house, when someone moves out another one moves in !

But if you had your way they would - as a terror suspect - already have been deported. So how does that work?

Well the niqab and burka basically wraps a wife or a daughter up in a package, maybe it should wear a sign, saying to be used only by the owner, it makes them the property of one man, it highlights the insecurity and the mistrust of Muslim men, a throwback to medieval times akin to a chasity belt, if it is not required to be worn as part of the Muslim religion then it/they should be banned.

The whole religion should be banned in this country.Why were they ever allowed to build mosques here in the first place ?

Spellbinder why don't you tell us more of your ideas and opinions instead of one liner comments , usually picking people up on their grammar or trying to twist things around. Not having a go but would be interesting to know more about your thinking of this subject.

I don't have any useful ideas or meaningful opinions about this very difficult, complex subject. I am, however, always interested in reading what others have to say about it.

Fair enough Spellbinder..

Why not a compromise of both opinions. Sift the top twenty and ten randoms on the list, then start again and keep doing it forever..No ifs no buts all illegals out, by definition there should be none on the list and if there is sack whoever permits them to remain.An alien/illegal living on funds without work or being able to support themselves has got to be looked at with suspicion.Sack any bobby that batons a student but will stand by doing nothing when his countries flag is being burnt.

Well now let me think mmm, the way things are in our alleged democracy we would need a valid reason to deport them, because it would be against their human rights to do so without a trial,
or perhaps they could hire you, seeing as you have all the questions and answers.

Now , now Casper. Spellbinder is one of the old crowd and he's OK. He's only putting forward questions that need answers of clarity. Falling out between ourselves over this and other related topics, is basically playing into the hands of those who hope to divide us. Precisely what they want !

Another point to ponder are the different languages. No wonder the education system is struggling, as there are over 300 different languages spoken in British schools ! 1.1 million children with 311 dialects. In some schools English speaking children are in the minority. What sort of drain on recourses must that be ?
The parents might be able to speak some English, but the children should be able to as well, or not allowed into the education system. Maybe that's hard, but could be a simple solution if migrants want their whole families to live here. Teach them English before they arrive.
Also, foreign students from EU don't pay their student loans back if they should go back to their own country. Students from outside EU have to pay for their University education. Thinking about that, if the University students loans are disposed of, as Jeremy Corbyn has decreed, and the Universities need more money, then I suggest the outcome might be less UK students and more foreign (outside the EU) born students to fill the void in Universities funds . Although I'm sure someone will put me right on that !
More foreigners, equals more housing, and more people on benefits , e.g children with certain disabilities from foreign born families such as autism ! We pay it all .

Can't believe your all still going on and on and suggesting English should be even taught to some....or whatever, as I've given up reading half the rubbish. Iam bored with it. Drone....Drone.

I told you on page 6 what had to be done...lol. Seriously, this gingerly stepping around the problem is why we have a bloody problem.

BALLS...need to be grown by authorities, government, the people of
Great Britain.

Well, probably because the media are still going on about it. Agreed on that point.
Not sure about your incarceration theory

No doubt the tourist numbers will drop dramatically in Manchester and overseas tourist throughout the whole of the UK. Shame, as it's supposed to be our most fruitful industry.

A month of Ramadan now, Lollipop. So we can all have a rest and it might give breathing space for those who want to come up with new ideas to tackle the problem head on. Some hope !

[youtube]v=6ffI0-uJrXk[/youtube] She quotes the Manchester bombing.

Bravo!! Great speech , so agree.

Ramadan!!!! Bloody Ramadan.

Oh god have we been a load of fools!!

There targeting our kids now,I was listening to the news debate on Radio 2 they say the Police are watching 23,000 plus possible jihadi`s in the Uk alone,Thats treason,I know what I`d do with'em ..

Does Ramadan stop religious acts?

.

Yeah Joeblogs, you don't care!!!

You edited your post though??????


LAME!!! Now trot on...

Who's rattled your cage Joe, and just who is it you are calling fcukwits ?

not edit just added more

some people on hear only want to listen to there own point,and if you say different you're a racist and all that,if you said dog shate taste bad they would say they have it for tea every night,any i never changed my post i put more in

you trot on kid you're on the horse

well?

A deep hole, were you can draw water.....

Or healthy maybe ?

if we had a mass deportation of muslims we could become a nation of shopkeepers again.

In Light of the tragic events in Manchester, Wirral Deen Centre held an open Public Solidarity Meeting today in support of the victims and their families but also to show unity within our local community.

This meeting was very well attended by a cross-section of society. All communities were represented.

#WeStandTogether #HopeNotHate

I listened to Andy Burnham on breakfast this morning,it looks like we will be doing the opposite to the Poles, all coming together holding hands and singing kumbaya, he also mentioned that we need more bobbies on the beat and in the community as it used to be, although he said at that time some ethnic communities were uncomfortable with policing in their communities, so what has changed? will the police now be welcomed after all this coming together and community spirit, a miraculous change in attitudes after just one week, so it looks like no action and no change same old same old

I'm amazed Burnham got selected for Manchester, let alone elected.

Andy burnum always looked like a thunderbird puppet to me ha
Like boris johnson lookslike matt lucas in a wig
Anyway .....my 2 penny worth
This bombing was gonna happen...we all knew it
Only a matter of time
Didsbury mosque rang up about him
As usual nothing was done....suddenly 20 people are arrested superfast
But its done now...after the horses bolted uk.
Our corrupt self serving apologist human rights led by nose government has made it very hard to legally stop these scumbags....no surprise.
Itll continue......

Very apt, Sven.

Thanks
Frankie boyle who i love said. " boris is a mixture of a head injury& a un made bed" ha
Like george carlin hes brilliant.
Always remb ' saudi funds isis we trade with em....they kill our kids....its a sick world
Mps must be in a weird public school click cause i wouldnt employ any of em
Gove & osbourne look like peados to me tbh
David icke says lizards rule us....if you look at murdoch /philip green/ prince phillip you can believe it..

Is two weeks too soon?

www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-30/ariana-grande-reveals-manchester-tribute-concert-line-up

Does seem a bit soon families still grieving. Free tickets for those at first concert.

Its media driven but then what else do they know

Yes , it is far too soon. People haven't had funerals yet. But hey. always down to the selfish wanting to have their name printed in the book of memories and tributes.
To be honest, I've heard enough about Manchester and how bloody marvellous everyone has been this week, and the media have used it to their advantage too. Yes they been marvellous, but why go on and on and on about it. The rest have NOT suffered like all those involved. We need a bit of breathing space for the families ,the rescuers, the medical teams. They must all be suffering beyond belief . why make a party out of something so horrendous ?

£7BN a year to police drugs in this country , more than the social security budget.

Do any of you remember the days when, everyone thought it would be something that would go away of it's own accord. Next came the crack down, next came the can't keep on top of the situation , now it's almost on the cards to make it legal.

There are huge similarities to terrorism in this country.
They thought it would go away, they didn't think it would arrive on our shores, they didn't put any preventative measure is place. Then they got worried, but for pc. reasons, couldn't say anything racist or react against religious institutions.
Then they realised, and decided 'prevent' was the answer, inclusion was the answer , educate and give them jobs is the answer.
Well, sorry but no one has the answer, even now. I hope just like the drugs scene, the terrorism is not too late for a positive outcome.

Can't help agreeing with UKIP, (as much as I can't stand the man)..... ban the burka as a start ! (it won't happen though, as politicians are still too frightened to put their name on the line, and Corbyn is about to fling the doors wide open again given half the chance)
One could actually believe there is a plot afoot in this country to destroy everything and then become the island prison service of Europe.

Here here Granny, quite agree...personally i think Drugs should be given out to drug users at clinics and a suchlike, still hammer home the message but these people will get them one way or the other, usually robbing and mugging old folk. I hate the way these drug barons make their money. I know people are against such a move but as vyou say it's not working now. Yep I don't want to see people walking around in our country hidden behind robes and just eyes staring out, quite unnerves me.vThey remind me of The Dementors from the Harry Potter books and films.

Yes drugs should be given out free, but only in overdose's.

Most violence caused by drugs is because they are off-their-head not because they are after money.

Alcohol is a drug much the same as many others ie addictive, unpredictable and destructive.

Would you really give alcoholics free alcohol to feed their addiction? Why think differently about other drugs?

But they need money in fist place DD to buy the stuff off the dealer's, and they don't care how they get it!

Isn't there extra money given to alcoholics when on benefits because of their addiction??

But would you give free alcohol to an alcoholic?

Well it seems to me its already being given free, by extra payment to buy it...

You're doing a Theresa May on me, would YOU give free alcohol to alcoholics?

There is a very easy way to reduce the drugs problem to an insignificant level but there are too many people with a conflict of interest. Just confiscate it all, shut down as many dealers and supply routes as you can, targeting street level. It will very quickly (in days) out price it's availability to most of the anti-social users.

Unfortunately the police won't do this because it will lead to a 60% reduction in the number of police we need.

Ooh Teresea May constantly on your mind DD, are you trying to emulate your hero JC?? I as a single person cannot put in place anything that would help the drugs or for that matter alco holic problems, but I can pass an opinion and if I felt threatened or troubled by an alcoholic and drink was nearby , yes let them have it. In truth I don't know what the answer is to these problems but it just doesn't seem to be working at the moment and the drugs and drug gangs just seem to be getting bigger and more violent.

Theresa May is certainly on my mind, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Cameron and May have possibly driven this country up a irreversible financial dead-end. I didn't fully realise the extent of it until running some figures last night.

Giving drugs to druggies solves absolutely nothing, the amount of violence will increase not decrease. A lot of druggies when they are not completely off their skulls keep their heads down because they want to be able to get their next fix, if they know they can get their next fix regardless, it changes the whole pattern of self-control.

The majority of methadone that is handed out is not used to help people to get off other drugs, its used as a stop-gap before they can get their next fix of the real stuff. It is helping them maintain continuity of drug use. Yes, in a small number of cases some druggies use it instead of other drugs most of the use is not that.

Just get the price of drugs out of reach and the whole problem of drugs and associated crime will be resolved. Stuff trying to get "Mr Big", hit it at street level, Mr Big will soon be out of business, he can't instantly rebuild trustworthy reliable supply chains overnight.

Its not difficult to find the street level dealers, ask any cabby, follow any smack-head, track mobiles and payphone use.

DD I don't know how you think taking a street level dealer of the streets would solve anything, they would be replaced in hours. The only real way to stop it would be to stop it getting into the country in the first place and how that could be done I don't know. I would think there are too many corrupt people in high places that could be being bought for turning a blind eye or passing information to the big drug barons.

Not in hours, it doesn't work like that, there is quite a bit of money involved and needs trust to be built up. The supply will be suddenly and severely limited, trust breaks down as well which helps.

Its much harder to stop the top end than the bottom end, just confiscate and keep confiscating, you don't even need to lock up the street level dealers, if they lose drugs its harder for them to re-stock, if they lose them twice there will be virtually no chance.

The price shoots up very fast when supplies are threatened, if its done as a program the price will totally skyrocket, addicts have a choice of stringing out or going on a program.

There are loads of low level dealers the police must know about, there are many are by main roads where you see the stream of druggies and taxis through the day and night.

Precisely as I mentioned. No one did anything, and the little guy grew into the big guy. Then they forgot about the little guy and chased the big guy, who got bigger and out of control, at the same time the little guys went forth and multiplied. Until the kids on the bikes were involved, racing around the housing estates and we find it in schools and teachers dabble and police and politicians snort cocaine and it is in all society.
The children of today will, without doubt, be the greatest of users and your ideas of control DD, are not fast enough or efficient enough to even scratch the surface or put a time scale on such an operation of success.

The world is now awash with one drug or another and the fight is over.

What's that got to do with smack heads ?

I must also remind you that almost 15 yrs of Labour Government actually destroyed this country ,along with rules from the EU which we had to abide by, and still do.
2010 to 2015 was a Coalition Government, 2015 to 2016 was Cameron, 2016 to 2017 (less than 12 months) was Mrs May, so how you can blame them for drug related problems I am not really sure .
Maybe we should blame Blair for encouraging University education for as many as possible, where the places are rife with drugs, and how whole streets of houses were bought up by outsiders like people from London and Manchester( foreigners who don't pay interest on mortgages) where families had previously lived, but were then rented out for student accommodation with guaranteed income and investments. Thus making the housing market shortage for families and homes more expensive, resulting in not enough homes to house the 3 million migrants he allowed in from the EU , or our own families who were last on the list. Communities destroyed and part time work to keep the unemployment figures down and give opportunities to the EU migrants for employment. Traitor ! Once the bubble burst, he disappeared and swanned off into the moonlight taking his millions and wifey with him after buying numerous properties before he fled.
HE , had every chance in the book to make a success of this country and he failed badly, don't make the Tories or any other party the scapegoats for the things that went so drastically wrong under his and Browns watch. (of which we are still picking up the bits)
Foodbanks introduced in UK in 2004 are in many countries , in 2014 France had twice as many as UK, and Germany were feeding 1.5 million people per day. Another political tool to step nearer bloody Kibbutzism.... i.e. living collectively.

They were two separate subjects responding to two different comments.

The low level dealers are just so easy to find, it would be like picking apples off a tree,

The low level dealers are usually users, and are being dealt with in the community.They get a couple of unannounced visits a week or are asked their whereabouts on a random basis and told to stay there until verified with a visit.when they fit an MO for a burglary they have to prove they are not the person who committed the offence. Forensics usually prove them liars and guilty. The only thing you could do to stop it is lock them up and throw away the key.Yes they are known to the police, who put them in front of a judge on a regular basis.The comment about getting rid of 60% of the police force is farcical.An answer to everything solutions to nowt.

If there was no drug (including alcohol) related crime you could get rid of 60% of the police.

Back on topic ish
28 Coptic Christians killed many children and women in a bus bomb attack.

That was about it... a one liner on a news report.

Do you mean
Many Coptic Christians children and women killed in a bus bomb attack.

or as I read it
It was 28 Coptic Christians who killed many children and women in a bus bomb attack.

not nit-picking but would like to know
Presume it's the first version

On 26 May, 28 Copts en route to a monastery near Cairo were dragged from their vehicles and executed by gunmen after refusing to recite the shahada – the primary Muslim profession of faith.

On the news this morning, the police and security services say they can find no record of phone calls made warning of the radicalisation of the Manchester bomber.

Now that's a surprise, not !

Unfortunately i was right....
The laughable thing is dumb people want to vote in the idiot that did nothing while home sec'
Useless useless woman