wirral forums

Tony Blair, Our Saviour

Posted By: granny

Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 2nd May 2017 10:46am


Our Saviour returns, as prophesised !!

Can't think of anything else to say really.


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...return-in-bid-to-influence-brexit-debate
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 2nd May 2017 11:19am

With the mess the Labour party is in at the moment they have nothing to lose, its about time they kicked all the right-wingers (blairites) out the party and started again as a socialist party.

The people of the country should have the right to be able to select between a left-wing or a right-wing government, something we finally lost while Blair was in power.

This subterfuge of right-wing infiltrating the Labour party has got to be brought to a halt.

I don't care if a left-wing party is unelectable but the people should have the choice. Altering policy purely to get into power at any cost is not politics, its greed.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 2nd May 2017 9:06pm

Second Coming !!Hallelujah. More like the "Return of Damien"
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 3rd May 2017 8:38am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
With the mess the Labour party is in at the moment they have nothing to lose, its about time they kicked all the right-wingers (blairites) out the party and started again as a socialist party.


I can see a problem right there. Its the Blairites which made the party finally electable in the 90s.

New Labour appealed to "Mondeo Man" and encouraged women to vote and put the party in the middle ground.

Those people haven't just gone away you know.

And that's why Labour is in the mess its in, you have the old Red Left wanting Corbyn, and you have the original New Labour supporters - not wanting Blair and Burnham, but something less left-wing. And the party is tearing itself apart because of it.

Corbyn's promotion was a stunt that backfired in a big way. His MPs don't like him, the electorate don't like him, bar those who turn up to his rallies. And as long as he has his ex lover Diane Abbot in a senior position, they're only going to drive more people away.

Remember when Scargill didn't like the way Blair was taking Labour and launched Socialist Labour? That party died a death and if Corbyn takes the party that way any further it will remain unelectable until the late 2020s.

New Labour was a success. Where it went wrong was forcing the ID cards plan, BSF and PFI, blindly following Bush, and then letting Gordon Brown run the country, then picking the wrong Miliband.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 3rd May 2017 10:59am

But Corbyn is the party leader with the 2nd most number of supporters in the whole of Europe and is way ahead of the other party leaders in the UK.

The "unpopular" leader is a myth promulgated by the media, he is the most popular leader by far.

The concept of changing your politics purely to get elected is ridiculous and its the aftermath of this happening during the Blair years that drove loads of Labour supporters away. Labour lost some of its base reliable supporters in favour of loads of unreliable floating voters from the middle ground.

The one thing they should change if they want greater support from many that have left is to recognise nationalism, many grass root left wingers are also Union Jack waving nationalists. They don't want free competition from foreign companies eg they want our ships built at Cammel Laird.

Wallasey Labour Party was shut down because it was one of the few local parties that wasn't in control of the Blairites, it was one of the most undemocratic and unconstitutional events to happen in the Labour party.
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 3rd May 2017 1:16pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
But Corbyn is the party leader with the 2nd most number of supporters in the whole of Europe and is way ahead of the other party leaders in the UK.

The "unpopular" leader is a myth promulgated by the media, he is the most popular leader by far.


The polls say otherwise.

The voting electorate say otherwise.

Why have Labour lost all those recent by-elections?

Even the lefties favourite, the Guardian, report Labour predicted to lose hundreds of seats:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ose-hundreds-of-seats-in-local-elections

You can blame the media all you like, but they don't go to the ballot box and vote.

And lets not forget this:

Labour party has lost nearly 26,000 members since mid-2016, report claims
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/03/labour-party-lost-members-mid-2016

All that 3 support soon left when they had to pay full price for party membership.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 3rd May 2017 4:12pm

The difference is whether you are taking about popularity of the Labour Party or the popularity of Corbyn.

There is a very distinct division in the party between the socialists and blairites, left-wing or right-wing.

The Labour Party is supposed be be a socialist movement, the blairites have captured the name. Tony blair is centre-right-wing in most studies I have found and more right wing than conservative Merkel in all the studies that I have found.

Labour had lost a small percentage of member (about 5%?), I believe the conservative party has not only lost a higher percentage in the same period but also had a much lower membership to start with. The Labour Party is doing much much better than the Conservative Party - but the media never point that out do they!
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 7:33am

Oh dear oh dear, Labour get another drubbing, this time nationally. So much for your claim of "The Labour Party is doing much much better than the Conservative Party"!

When will Labour realise that Corbyn is to blame? The party is being punished for his "leadership".

And you can't blame "the media" or "blairites" for this. This is the general public, voting with their feet.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 9:58am

I thought it proved my point. People don't want the blairites.
Posted By: granny

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 10:14am


At the moment, Scotland seems to be getting a bit of rumble too. Now that IS of interest !

Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 10:15am

The "Blairites" were given a bloody nose in 2010. This is all about punishment for Corbyn. A shame you can't see that.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 11:06am

Originally Posted by Gibbo
The "Blairites" were given a bloody nose in 2010. This is all about punishment for Corbyn. A shame you can't see that.


Not studied the turnouts but is this due to Labour supporters voting conservative or just not turning out. UKIP took a hit so are there former supporters voting Conservative rather than Labour.
I would tend to think previous UKIP supporters would vote conservative to make sure Brexit goes through
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 11:41am

Originally Posted by Gibbo
The "Blairites" were given a bloody nose in 2010. This is all about punishment for Corbyn. A shame you can't see that.


I can see that, I thought it was you that couldn't. The blairites despite being very much a minority in the Labour Party have taken control of the party both nationally and at constituency level.

I'm always curious why Wallasey is so important to the blairites. Twice the blairites at a national level have risked being exposing their underhand tactics by attacking the Wallasey Constituency.

As said many times before, Corbyn is being stabbed in the front by the media and the back by the blairites despite being the most popular politician in the country. The tories and the blairites live in fear of him and will do their utmost to destroy him.
Posted By: Martin1943

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 3:18pm

Never mind Blair the warmonger, we now have Mayor Rotherham.
He is a;ready calling the wirral as "liverpool"
We think we did badly when Birkenhead appropriated the majority of funding and starved the rest of Wirral. Now Liverpool across the river will have first dibs in the pot. I wonder if they sold off all there tramline track, or is it stored waiting a fresh way of spending money!
Independance for The Wirral!!!!
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 4:14pm

Quite amusingly, Andy Burnham the biggest Blairite in the country becomes mayor for Greater Manchester. So much for the voters voting the Blairites out!!!

as for Rotheram -

Quote
Steve Rotheram, who was Corbyn's PPS, admits he didn't use Corbyn in any of his 4 campaign leaflets. Says wanted to stress local stuff
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 4:17pm

Originally Posted by Martin1943
Never mind Blair the warmonger, we now have Mayor Rotherham.
He is a;ready calling the wirral as "liverpool"
We think we did badly when Birkenhead appropriated the majority of funding and starved the rest of Wirral. Now Liverpool across the river will have first dibs in the pot. I wonder if they sold off all there tramline track, or is it stored waiting a fresh way of spending money!
Independance for The Wirral!!!!


I'd fully support an independent Wirral, in fact I think most Wirral people would - but we weren't consulted properly on the matter. Our job now is that every time they say "Liverpool" instead of "Liverpool Region" or "Liverpool City Region" then we correct them.

I would challenge that Birkenhead has had more of Wirral's funding, I think you will find the figures show the opposite is true. The main problem is that the whole of the Wirral is underfunded, partly through what is given and partly through what we try and get. Wirral is unique and basically has the worst case of all the funding issues, we are an urban, suburban and rural area but has its own major road networks and a lot of coastline, we no longer have a major rail network and it is awkward to get to airports. We are near and remote from other places at the same time.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 4:23pm

Originally Posted by Gibbo
Quite amusingly, Andy Burnham the biggest Blairite in the country becomes mayor for Greater Manchester. So much for the voters voting the Blairites out!!!

as for Rotheram -

Quote
Steve Rotheram, who was Corbyn's PPS, admits he didn't use Corbyn in any of his 4 campaign leaflets. Says wanted to stress local stuff


Burnham blows with the wind, he is currently classed as a left-winger again every since he was kicked in the teeth by the blairite team in 2010.
Posted By: Spellbinder

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 5:02pm

Originally Posted by Martin1943
I wonder if they sold off all there tramline track, or is it stored waiting a fresh way of spending money!
Independance for The Wirral!!!!


their
Independence
Posted By: granny

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 5:25pm

Originally Posted by fish5133
Originally Posted by Gibbo
The "Blairites" were given a bloody nose in 2010. This is all about punishment for Corbyn. A shame you can't see that.


Not studied the turnouts but is this due to Labour supporters voting conservative or just not turning out. UKIP took a hit so are there former supporters voting Conservative rather than Labour.
I would tend to think previous UKIP supporters would vote conservative to make sure Brexit goes through


Only 26% voted in the Merseyside Metro Mayoral election, which is particularly bad. The same could apply for all the other gains by the Tories. We'll no doubt be told if that is the case, by the ever hopefuls.
Have we had the Wirral results yet, as I can't find them anywhere ?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 5:41pm

Originally Posted by granny
Have we had the Wirral results yet, as I can't find them anywhere ?


I doubt those figures will be released, they would be too divisive for a number of the regions.

Looking at the region's figures I'd pretty much bet that Wirral would also have been Labour.
Posted By: granny

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 5th May 2017 5:42pm


I expect Wirral will be Labour again.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 29th May 2017 10:18pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
Have we had the Wirral results yet, as I can't find them anywhere ?


I doubt those figures will be released, they would be too divisive for a number of the regions.

Looking at the region's figures I'd pretty much bet that Wirral would also have been Labour.


You will be ecstatic to know that every local authority's region voted for Rotherham (Labour).

Wirral's results were ...

Labour 49.4%
Conservative 30.2%
Lib Dems 5.9%
UKIP 5.8%
Green 4.5%
TUSC 2.5%
Women's Equality 1.5%
Get the Coppers Off the Jury 0.2%
Posted By: granny

Re: Tony Blair, Our Saviour - 30th May 2017 1:37am

Over the moon ! Not really too bothered tbh. We know what we'll get i.e. more of the same.

Surprised at Lib/Dem's result though and the fact that UKIP where just behind.

Thanks DD.

(Read the results wrong first time got UKIP and Lib/Dems mixed up)
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