Forums
Posted By: StuyMac Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 9:44am
Originally Posted by [DailyMail
MPs face being forced into a landmark vote on restoring the death penalty.

Capital punishment is expected to be the first subject debated by Parliament under an e-petitions scheme.

The initiative allows the public to help set the government agenda and means anyone can set up an internet petition on any subject. If it attracts more than 100,000 signatures, MPs must consider debating it in the Commons.

The scheme is officially launched today, but it has already backfired on the Coalition because Right-wing internet bloggers have been collecting signatures for the last few days.



Full Story
Posted By: bert1 Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 9:55am
The answer once again will be NO.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:01am
I'm all for it.

Murderers are a drain on our taxes, life imprisonment... nah, just kill 'em!
Posted By: jabber_Ish Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:02am
Originally Posted by Nobody
I'm all for it.

Murderers are a drain on our taxes, life imprisonment... nah, just kill 'em!


withthat

use them for testing stuff on instead of animals
Posted By: bert1 Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:05am
I'll ask the question i always ask, what if you hang the wrong person?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:06am
That's another option. I just fail to see why someone who has purposely taken the life of another should be treated to yard time, meals, TV, snooker rooms etc etc.

I do think it'd have to be clear cut i.e. 1st degree murder but if you have the ability to kill someone in cold blood then IMO you are not ever going to be safe to enter society again.

Human rights my arse!
Posted By: bert1 Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:20am
Everyone in the past who was hung was supposedly clear cut, at least that what was thought at the time of their demise. We all know that wasn't always the case and many innocent people have met with wrongful punishment, i do agree with throwing away the key, at least anyone wrongfully sentenced can be given compensation and have some sort of life given back.
Posted By: poodlepup Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:31am
I thnk if there's DNA evidence and it was cold blooded murder yes,put them to sleep!
Other than that,get rid of these butlin's style prisons,and get back to making them do some sort of labour,and longer sentences.
Posted By: Wench Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:42am
Clear cut case - absolutely!! For murder, rape, paedophiles, "granny bashers".

As for prison itself - lock them up 10 to a cell for 23 hours a day. 15 mins out per meal and 15 for a shower. No playboxxstationwiicube, no tv, dvd's etc. Anything they own should be sold to pay towards their keep!

Druggies/Alcoholics - what better place to detox!

Lets stop all this fluffy mollycoddling crap and get prison to what it should be - a PUNISHMENT!

Posted By: ex0__ Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:57am
No. It's a barbaric practice and something that was stamped out long ago for good reasons. No civilised country should be using the death penalty.
Posted By: Wench Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 10:59am
Originally Posted by ex0__
No. It's a barbaric practice and something that was stamped out long ago for good reasons. No civilised country should be using the death penalty.

No civilised country should have people that murder or rape etc either but we do!

It's one of those subjects that those with opposing views will never agree on.
Posted By: _Ste_ Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 11:01am
Wench drugs and alcohol are widely available inside lol so it's not good for the druggies or alcoholics.
Posted By: Sarah_ZR Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 11:11am
Originally Posted by jabber
Originally Posted by Nobody
I'm all for it.

Murderers are a drain on our taxes, life imprisonment... nah, just kill 'em!


withthat

use them for testing stuff on instead of animals

I'm with you 2,all for it!
Posted By: Wench Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 11:12am
Originally Posted by _Ste_
Wench drugs and alcohol are widely available inside lol so it's not good for the druggies or alcoholics.

In that case, stop visitors too raftl
Posted By: ex0__ Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 11:26am
Originally Posted by Wench
In that case, stop visitors too raftl


Better remove the guards as well.
Posted By: Wench Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 11:29am
Probably. Just let them thrash it out on their own. They'll probably end up killing each other, just one will remain. We can then kill him - job done happy
Posted By: _Ste_ Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 11:34am
Lmfao! laugh
Posted By: HistoricalTony Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 11:58am
Originally Posted by bert1
I'll ask the question i always ask, what if you hang the wrong person?


mistaken identity is a terrible crime, this was probs why the deth penlty was removed in the first place, even with the dna system nothing can be clear cut
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 12:48pm
There can be no argument. Definitely the death sentence for text speak !!!

Maybe mixing my posts up here ?

Whatever..... Can I have Albert Pierrepoint's job please ?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 12:58pm
I have always said they should be made to go and fight in the wars that go on, send them out with a gps neck bomb on, ( bit like the running man)
Posted By: BandyCoot Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 1:16pm
Just make life mean life and make the prisons tougher, like the bloke in Arpao County has done to his. Anyone who goes to the nick should not relish going back again, him or his folks.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 1:33pm
I say bring back the death penalty.

I used to live in Saudi Arabia, and their punishments are really really harsh - but I tell you now, their crime rate is next to none!!

I say bring it back! If you don't do anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about do you.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 1:36pm
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki

I say bring it back! If you don't do anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about do you.


I'll answer that with this;

Originally Posted by bert1
I'll ask the question i always ask, what if you hang the wrong person?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 1:37pm
Just one example

Timothy Evans in the United Kingdom, was tried and executed in 1950 for the murder of his baby daughter Geraldine. An official inquiry conducted 16 years later determined that it was Evans's fellow tenant, serial killer John Reginald Halliday Christie, who was responsible for the murder. Christie also admitted to the murder of Evans's wife as well as five other women and his own wife. Christie may have murderded other women, judging by evidence found in his possession at the time of his arrest, but it was never pursued by the police. Evans was pardoned posthumously following this, in 1966. The case prompted the abolition of capital punishment in the UK in 1965.

Posted By: StuyMac Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 1:40pm
Things have moved on a bit since then Bert - if you have conclusive forensic evidence, and a confession it could be a different kettle of fish...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 1:41pm
1950 is a far cry from the technology of today making it much easier to gain evidence.

There's much less margin for error and sometimes, it's obvious.

I'm in two minds. Since I don't plan on killing anyone, I don't care if other killers get a lethal injection.

Since I pay taxes, I'd rather not see them support a murderer in prison.

I wouldn't like to be killed if somehow someone managed to frame me or some weird evidence came to light or a mistake was made.

Cleverer people than us will debate this, and no doubt their opinions will be divided too.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 1:49pm
Yes I agree 'Nobody' there is going to be much deliberation about this from people far more higher and important than ourselves.

And bert, yes it could be a big problem if someone was to be hanged in error. However, as it has been said, with how far science has come, it is going to be unlikely that someone is going to be given the death penalty if there is reasonable doubt they are innocent.

I mean look at all the people we have in this country - Ian Huntley, Milly Dowlers' murderer etc...surely you would prefer not to see people like that walk the streets after being in prison only half of their sentence. I'm sorry but I totally agree with the death penalty.

When I lived in Saudi, they let people watch the punishments. They would chop hands off for rape, they would behead for murder - but only if there was no reasonable doubt.

I'm sorry but no-body is going to change my mind, and I would seriously suggest people who are so 'human rights' have a think about it!

I mean come on...what if it was your family murdered???
Posted By: bert1 Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 1:55pm
What if one of the family was wrongly hung. I'm all for life meaning life and if need be make life hell for them, as i said earlier a wrongly convicted person can be compensated and we can try to make amends, can't bring someone back from the dead. The example i put up, (Evans) today's technology would not have helped him.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:01pm
Well then it looks as though we agree to disagree.

I believe crime rate would go down if people who were murderers were facing the death penalty.

Our knife crime, drug crime and even alcohol related incidents is so high, I feel if the prisons were harsher, and there was the option of death penalty it would decrease.

I would like to know why on your caption you have 'This is no place for children' is that the world in general? or is that UK only?

No this country isn't a place for children, but why isn't it for you?

I say bring it back. If someone hurt a member of my family - the murderer would have a death sentence anyway - and not by the courts!!
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:09pm
Nikki, I'm not sure you understand the concept of the British legal system; go to a Crown Court and watch a case (not on TV lol), the judge will spend anywhere from 45 minutes to days, providing a summary of the case and explaining to the jury how they are to reach their decision. If there is any doubt in the jurors mind over the guilt of the person, the juror must find that person not guilty, no matter how small that doubt. The British legal system is setup only to convict a person of a crime, where the jury is 100% certain that the person is guilty of that crime.

So going by this "reasonable doubt" attitude towards the death sentance, does not work in the British legal system. This is the problem I have with the death penalty... when I see people like Huntley and Brady etc, even lower level scumbags, I say hang the fecking lot of em lol... But I do worry that even today, there is an element of human error, and jurors still do not grasp the conceptg of if there is any doubt whatsoever, they must find the defendent not guilty, regardless of emotional or other feelings towards that defendent. There is still cases that have been highlighted over the years, whereby an incorrect verdict was delivered, and there still will be. I just worry that if you convict the wrong person, there is no going back.

On the other hand, I see the benefits of such a punishment (and I don't care what anyone says, prison should be first and foremost a place of punishment, before rehabillitation), and I would like to think it was in-place. It is a tricky one, but I think the better choice right now, would be to make prison a place where ... DONT want to end up, make it a living hell, give a prisoner the same level of basic human rights afforded to a PoW, cease giving them TV's, playstations etc, who cares if there is 4 to a cell, if they don't like it, they don't have to commit the crime!
Posted By: Silverback Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:10pm
Originally Posted by bert1
I'll ask the question i always ask, what if you hang the wrong person?


Easy answer to that, if the wrong one is proven to have been hung, then you take the barristers from both defence and prosecution, and the head of the police investigation team outside and execute them!

Won't be many mistakes after the first one, maybe two.
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:14pm
Isnt the death penalty still technically in place as a form of punishment anyway, as a punishment for anyone committing treason?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:14pm
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
Well then it looks as though we agree to disagree.

I believe crime rate would go down if people who were murderers were facing the death penalty.

Our knife crime, drug crime and even alcohol related incidents is so high, I feel if the prisons were harsher, and there was the option of death penalty it would decrease.

I would like to know why on your caption you have 'This is no place for children' is that the world in general? or is that UK only?

No this country isn't a place for children, but why isn't it for you?

I say bring it back. If someone hurt a member of my family - the murderer would have a death sentence anyway - and not by the courts!!


The signature means for God to come and not send his child Jesus.
Its origins i think if my memory banks are working properly, its a prayer by a marine who was on Iwo Jima at its worse.
Posted By: MrBrightside Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:15pm
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

The Death penalty is just a load a crap.

So we kill the murderer for killing someone.

Its just not logical, we would be commiting the same crime.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:16pm
I understand perfectly well the British Legal System. However, I tell you what - if other countries can do it, then why can't we? If the evidence speaks for itself, and the murderer is caught - then why shouldnt they have the death penalty?

I agree with the death penalty, I don't believe that the wrong person should die. However if the evidence is damning, or the evidence is there and they get a confession - then why shouldn't we have it.

I have different views to most people with living in a strict country for most of my life. I have seen things differently, I have different morals and values to most people....
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:21pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

The Death penalty is just a load a crap.

So we kill the murderer for killing someone.

Its just not logical, we would be commiting the same crime.


Hmm I really hope nothing ever happens to a family member of yours.

I know if anything was done to my family, I would want the death penalty. If not, I would murder them, the death penalty wouldn't be in by then, so I could go to jaily and be out in half my time...easy!
Posted By: _Ste_ Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:21pm
Well stone the crows!
This little article has caused quite a stir has it not?
Carry on people.

popcorn
Posted By: MrBrightside Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:22pm
America still has the death penalty......... why is death row full..... its not a deterent at all. America has huge crime problems.

Im not a religious man and i dont belive in god. But in the bible it states quite clealy. Tho shalt not kill. So the person who flicks the switch on the electric chair ,the person who gives the injection. They are in fact ending someones life.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:25pm
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki

I'm sorry but no-body is going to change my mind


I have that effect on a lot of girls.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:25pm
I'm not religious at all, so that side of it I don't care about at all.

Yes death row is full, but America is a far larger country to ours, look at the ratio....theres no comparison.

And evidentally you do have some religious beliefs else you wouldn't have brought it up smile
Posted By: MrBrightside Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:25pm
TBH my brother was killed in a car accident (passenger) you dont see me wanting to kill the person who killed him, why you ask? Because and eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:26pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix
TBH my brother was killed in a car accident (passenger) you dont see me wanting to kill the person who killed him, why you ask? Because and eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.


That wasn't murder.
Posted By: MrBrightside Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:30pm
No im not religious and dont belive in one person who made it all. Im a person who bases his views on truths and facts. I belive in some of the buddist ways of life. They dont belive in a soul master/God/Allah to worship. instead you live your life and treat people well.

Religion is the casue of many many problems over the years. The fact is that if you kill some one for killing a family member then you are doing what the killer did. and so the visious circle begins.

Posted By: MattLFC Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:32pm
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
I understand perfectly well the British Legal System. However, I tell you what - if other countries can do it, then why can't we? If the evidence speaks for itself, and the murderer is caught - then why shouldnt they have the death penalty?

I agree with the death penalty, I don't believe that the wrong person should die. However if the evidence is damning, or the evidence is there and they get a confession - then why shouldn't we have it.

I have different views to most people with living in a strict country for most of my life. I have seen things differently, I have different morals and values to most people....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the death penalty, I'd like to see it implemented in some manner, but again the argument that if "the evidence is damning" etc, the person should be hanged, does not apply in the British legal system, as only the guilty are (supposedly) convicted of crimes.

I'd like us to move towards a more Middle East style of punishment and crim-enforcement, I particuarly admire the legal system that the UAE countries have in place for instance; but the death penalty is a sticking point, because of the risk of human error, and the fact it is not reversible. In some respects, is it not also giving the coward, the cowards way out? How about making them suffera PoW enviroment for 30+ years instead, with basic food and clothing provided, basic meals, world service for comfort and stuck in a padded cell, with no entitlement to early release etc...
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:32pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix
The fact is that if you kill some one for killing a family member then you are doing what the killer did. and so the visious circle begins.


You could look at it that way, or you could look at it in a different way... if someone has deliberately taken a life in cold blood then obviously they are capable of it. That's more than most people. In my view, they need to be taken out of the equation, so they can't do it again.

Why should you and I help to fund this?
Posted By: MrBrightside Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:32pm
well done nobody ........the guy got charged with man slaughter for his arratic driving.

I didnt state he was murderd.
Posted By: Silverback Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:34pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix

Im not a religious man and i dont belive in god. But in the bible it states quite clealy. Tho shalt not kill. So the person who flicks the switch on the electric chair ,the person who gives the injection. They are in fact ending someones life.



Exodus 21:12-14

12 "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.

13 However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate.

14 But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.

Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:34pm
Originally Posted by MattLFC
I'd like us to move towards a more Middle East style of punishment and crim-enforcement, I particuarly admire the legal system that the UAE countries have in place for instance; but the death penalty is a sticking point, because of the risk of human error, and the fact it is not reversible.


Ah, crap, sorry Muhammed, it was Mustafa who raped Miss. Kavindra. Here's your hand, quick, to the hospital, we'll jolly well reattach it.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:37pm
Originally Posted by MattLFC
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
I understand perfectly well the British Legal System. However, I tell you what - if other countries can do it, then why can't we? If the evidence speaks for itself, and the murderer is caught - then why shouldnt they have the death penalty?

I agree with the death penalty, I don't believe that the wrong person should die. However if the evidence is damning, or the evidence is there and they get a confession - then why shouldn't we have it.

I have different views to most people with living in a strict country for most of my life. I have seen things differently, I have different morals and values to most people....

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the death penalty, I'd like to see it implemented in some manner, but again the argument that if "the evidence is damning" etc, the person should be hanged, does not apply in the British legal system, as only the guilty are (supposedly) convicted of crimes.

I'd like us to move towards a more Middle East style of punishment and crim-enforcement, I particuarly admire the legal system that the UAE countries have in place for instance; but the death penalty is a sticking point, because of the risk of human error, and the fact it is not reversible. In some respects, is it not also giving the coward, the cowards way out? How about making them suffera PoW enviroment for 30+ years instead, with basic food and clothing provided, basic meals, world service for comfort and stuck in a padded cell, with no entitlement to early release etc...


Matt, it wasn't long ago a Britich national was in a jail in Dubai - and due to the way he was treated whilst in there, with limited amounts of food, surviving in squalor....he got battered to death by the guards in that prison. The family had no way of finding out why he was even put in there, and why he was treated the way he was.

I'm not saying that we should go by all the rules of the middle eastern countries, because trust me not all of them are nice places. But I tell you what, when it comes to chopping hands off for crimes, and beheading for crimes - yes it may be barbaric, but they dont have crime!!

It's easy for me, because I don't do drugs, I don't drink very often (maybe once a month if that)...I dont fight, I have never been involved with police....I can say that. But for people who do, do these things, they wont like stricter punishments, will they?
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:37pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix
well done nobody ........the guy got charged with man slaughter for his arratic driving.

I didnt state he was murderd.


I didn't say you did, but the debate is on the death penalty for murder.

I presume, and I'm sorry if I'm raking up bad memories, that the driver was done for death by dangerous driving, as manslaughter would be a very difficult one.

He didn't set out to intentionally kill anyone and this is very different to premeditated murder.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:40pm
Originally Posted by Nobody
Originally Posted by MattLFC
I'd like us to move towards a more Middle East style of punishment and crim-enforcement, I particuarly admire the legal system that the UAE countries have in place for instance; but the death penalty is a sticking point, because of the risk of human error, and the fact it is not reversible.


Ah, crap, sorry Muhammed, it was Mustafa who raped Miss. Kavindra. Here's your hand, quick, to the hospital, we'll jolly well reattach it.


Rape is a particularly bad thing in Saudi, this si the reason why alcohol is banned. Due to the fact that, years and years ago, in the royal family, a prince got drunk and raped a young girl....it was very bad for the country, due to this....alcohol was banned, and the prince was put to death (most ptobably by stoneing) which is what it still is in most Middle Eastern countries now.
Posted By: MrBrightside Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:41pm
Originally Posted by Silverback
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix

Im not a religious man and i dont belive in god. But in the bible it states quite clealy. Tho shalt not kill. So the person who flicks the switch on the electric chair ,the person who gives the injection. They are in fact ending someones life.



Exodus 21:12-14

12 "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.

13 However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate.

14 But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.




Sorry mate but pasting in text from an E-Bible just doesnt back any thing up. The bible is well known for contradicting things. You must stone a man if he cuts his sideburn hair etc etc.

Im a man of science not faith.

Its a very hard thing to discuss, i dont want my money being spent on rapists or murders etc but i certainly dont want to kill people for killing people. I love the way every one has very strong views on this topic. Its very healthy to have, Im not here to tell people what to think. Im not like that.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:43pm
If your a man of science, you wouldn't have even brought up the bible - no-body else did!
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:44pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix

I love the way every one has very strong views on this topic. Its very healthy to have, Im not here to tell people what to think. Im not like that.


Agree. I think this thread has been quite a good one to participate in as well.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:45pm
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
If your a man of science, you wouldn't have even brought up the bible - no-body else did!


Er...

Originally Posted by Silverback

Exodus 21:12-14

12 "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.

13 However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate.

14 But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.

Posted By: MrBrightside Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:46pm
I was saying that becuase a high proportion of people have faith in god and lead their life by the bible.

Why wouldnt I bring in the bible? Its the foundation of our law system is it not? i could be wrong.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:46pm
Yeh he only brought it up once JohnLeatherFix did! lol smile
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:48pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix
I was saying that becuase a high proportion of people have faith in god and lead their life by the bible.

Why wouldnt I bring in the bible? Its the foundation of our law system is it not? i could be wrong.


Yes the only problem I have with the Bible/Koran etc is, this is why we have so many civil wars (Libya, Syria etc)...which cause people to murder...so obviously setting the Bible as your example isn't always the best way to be :-S
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:48pm
I'll let you off Nikki haha.
Posted By: Silverback Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:49pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix
Originally Posted by Silverback
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix

Im not a religious man and i dont belive in god. But in the bible it states quite clealy. Tho shalt not kill. So the person who flicks the switch on the electric chair ,the person who gives the injection. They are in fact ending someones life.



Exodus 21:12-14

12 "Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death.

13 However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate.

14 But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.




Sorry mate but pasting in text from an E-Bible just doesnt back any thing up. The bible is well known for contradicting things. You must stone a man if he cuts his sideburn hair etc etc.

Im a man of science not faith.

Its a very hard thing to discuss, i dont want my money being spent on rapists or murders etc but i certainly dont want to kill people for killing people. I love the way every one has very strong views on this topic. Its very healthy to have, Im not here to tell people what to think. Im not like that.


So you're just a troll then, the bible's ok when it suits your arguement, but when it goes against............

Posted By: MrBrightside Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:55pm
What do you mean by troll?


The uk law system is based on the bible in some respects and i was saying that ,in there it says thou shalt not kill. That is all. I have my views you have yours. I live my life well. I dont steal and dont hurt any one im helpfull to others. I dont need a bible to help me do that.

What about in the war when a mum and baby get shot by one of our service men..... is that murder?
Posted By: ex0__ Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 2:57pm
Trollin is an art form where you argue for the sake of arguing. The idea is to piss everyone off, regardless of what your own opinion is.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:01pm
Originally Posted by ex0__
Trollin is an art form where you argue for the sake of arguing. The idea is to piss everyone off, regardless of what your own opinion is.

[Linked Image]


Sounds like you need to grow up!
Posted By: Silverback Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:04pm
Originally Posted by JohnLeatherFix
What do you mean by troll?


The uk law system is based on the bible in some respects and i was saying that ,in there it says thou shalt not kill. That is all. I have my views you have yours. I live my life well. I dont steal and dont hurt any one im helpfull to others. I dont need a bible to help me do that.

What about in the war when a mum and baby get shot by one of our service men..... is that murder?


The bible, like the law, states that people should not kill. It then clarifies that statement by saying that should some one actually break that law they should die, but if by accident (manslaughter) there's a place (prison or otherwise) for them.

And the provocative question..........

Well that's also answered by the same reference.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:04pm
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
Originally Posted by ex0__
Trollin is an art form where you argue for the sake of arguing. The idea is to piss everyone off, regardless of what your own opinion is.

[Linked Image]


Sounds like you need to grow up!


Let's not take this off topic when we've done so well wink

ex0 was just telling us what a troll was, although having said that, now I've quoted I can see he included a 4chan picture and work have 4chan on lock down. Not somewhere they want me frittering my working hours away.
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:07pm
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
Originally Posted by ex0__
Trollin is an art form where you argue for the sake of arguing. The idea is to piss everyone off, regardless of what your own opinion is.

[Linked Image]


Sounds like you need to grow up!

Now now Nikki, no need for that, he was only explaining what a troll is?

smile
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:13pm
Oh,lol, I missunderstood the post....apologies smile
Posted By: Touchstone Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:19pm
Originally Posted by MattLFC
Isnt the death penalty still technically in place as a form of punishment anyway, as a punishment for anyone committing treason?


I think the Death Penalty for must crimes was abolished around 1969 with last hangings taking place in 1964. The Death Penalty was totally abolished in 1998. This was for crimes like arson in a naval dockyard, mutiny on the high seas, treason etc.

It's now a condition of joining the EU that a state must not have Capital Punishment.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:23pm
Originally Posted by Touchstone

I think the Death Penalty for must crimes was abolished around 1969 with last hangings taking place in 1964. The Death Penalty was totally abolished in 1998. This was for crimes like arson in a naval dockyard, mutiny on the high seas, treason etc.

It's now a condition of joining the EU that a state must not have Capital Punishment.


Informative, thanks.
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:27pm
Originally Posted by MattLFC
Isnt the death penalty still technically in place as a form of punishment anyway, as a punishment for anyone committing treason?


Quote
Since the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 became law, the maximum sentence for high treason in the UK has been life imprisonment.



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom
Posted By: Touchstone Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:33pm
Some people who have been convicted of murder but later found innocent since the last hangings in 1964:

Stefan Kiszko,
Barry George,
Hugh Callaghan, Patrick Joseph Hill, Gerard Hunter, Richard McIlkenny, William Power and John Walker [The Birmingham Six],
Paul Michael Hill, Gerard "Gerry" Conlon, Patrick "Paddy" Armstrong, Carole Richardson [The Guildford Four],
Judith Theresa Ward,
Winston Silcott,
Stephen Downing,

There are quite a few more. All would have been murdered by the British government if we still had capital punishment.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:34pm
And how long did it take you to google that lot,lol smile

I don't disagree that it would be a bad injustice to get the wrong person. However I still agree with the death penalty!
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:39pm
Maybe it could work as a better deterrent than an actual punishment?

smile
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:42pm
But how can it be a deterrent without actually doing it?
Posted By: Touchstone Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:42pm
Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
And how long did it take you to google that lot,lol smile

I don't disagree that it would be a bad injustice to get the wrong person. However I still agree with the death penalty!


Does it matter if I googled it or did it off the top of my head? The facts remain that these people all would have been killed by the State if we still had hanging.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:46pm
Yes and unfortunately we still have a number of people of British soil that don't deserve to be here;

http://www.murderuk.com/index.html
Posted By: MattLFC Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:53pm
If its enshrined in law as a maximum penalty for certain crimes, it may make someone somewhere think twice (which could save one life); but I see what you mean, it has to be used to set a precident.

That opens up a whole new can of worms, would any person mad/stupid enough to murder someone, actually be deterred by the death penalty. I'd like to think so, but those that would, usually murder because they somehow believe they won't get caught (in which case, they would believe they have nothing to fear from the death penalty).

Atm, the government is having enough of a hard time trying to bring back the old "an Englishmans house is his castle" legislation, which they do, to their credit, seem to be managing, but this is in the face of much pressure and media scrutiny from people who oppose this sort of law; I think it would be nigh on impossible to bring in a law such as capital punishment, without restructing the entire criminal justic system altogether (which thanks predominantly to the EU, and partly to labour, now works soley in the best interests of the prisoner). I can't see any bill getting through the commons at this moment in time, nevermind the lords. It is certainly in no major parties manifesto or ideology that I can think of?
Posted By: bert1 Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 3:58pm
History has proven that capital punishment is no deterrent. The only deterrent i can think of is the nuclear bomb, used twice and no more world wars, thats another debate for another time though.
Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 4th Aug 2011 4:00pm
Yes you shouldn't even get me started on world wars laugh
Posted By: paxvobiscum Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 5th Aug 2011 9:39am
Originally Posted by bert1
I'll ask the question i always ask, what if you hang the wrong person?


Too many innocent people were executed so for that reason a definite'no'.

Having visited prisons for six years and having had a convicted murderer living with me for a year on release,cases are not just cut and dried.Some get in with wrong company, have addicitions, or have mental health/low intelligence problems.
The present system whilst not perfect is very through to weigh up each case after conviction.

Posted By: Spritey_Nikki Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 5th Aug 2011 9:49am
Originally Posted by paxvobiscum
Originally Posted by bert1
I'll ask the question i always ask, what if you hang the wrong person?


Too many innocent people were executed so for that reason a definite'no'.

Having visited prisons for six years and having had a convicted murderer living with me for a year on release,cases are not just cut and dried.Some get in with wrong company, have addicitions, or have mental health/low intelligence problems.
The present system whilst not perfect is very through to weigh up each case after conviction.



It's your fault if you get in with the wrong crowd - all you have to do is turn and walk away. Ok so not everyone is strong enough to do that - but it can be done. I was in a wrong crowd of people who did drugs (heroine, cocaine, ectasey etc) and I walked away from it, because I knew it would get me into trouble.

Why would you offer a convicted murderer to live with you? Surely thats your own problem for allowing it to happen?

Why do they have mental health problems? drugs? alchohol - again thats by choice!

People know when they are doing something wrong, and when they are doing something that isn't good for them.

If they are high on drugs or are so intoxicated and murder someone - they should be held accountable!

I still say bring it back - but only for murder/serial killer cases. No-body should be given an excuse to murder!
Posted By: ex0__ Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 5th Aug 2011 10:51am
Originally Posted by Nobody
he included a 4chan picture and work have 4chan on lock down. Not somewhere they want me frittering my working hours away.

4chons? wot iz 4chons? laugh

That was 420chan actually, was the first image when I searched for trollface. I would imagine all the *chans are blocked from office machines though.

Originally Posted by Spritey_Nikki
Oh,lol, I missunderstood the post....apologies smile

Psh, don't mention it )
Posted By: paxvobiscum Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 5th Aug 2011 10:05pm
Thanks Nikki for your comments. By nature I am a pragmatist, believing that you cannot change the past but will try to see the best way forward.
I don't believe in kicking people when they are down at rock bottom even if they have sometimes only themselves to blame.You have done well to pull yourself by your bootstraps but unfortunately there are others who cannot.
Yes, I agree people should be accountable for crimes they have done.


Posted By: MissGuided Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 5th Aug 2011 10:26pm
Originally Posted by Touchstone
It's now a condition of joining the EU that a state must not have Capital Punishment.


So if we have a vote of being for the death penalty we'll have to leave the EU? think Sounds like a plan think
Posted By: Touchstone Re: Bring back the death penalty? - 5th Aug 2011 10:32pm
I'd be happy to pull out of the EU but not just to bring back the Death Penalty.

What always amuses me is the way right-wing Tories bang on about evil EU and the horrible Froggies, Krauts and Wops etc. Yet the buggers were happy to sell our gas, water and electricity off to them.
© Wirral-Wikiwirral