wirral forums

Corbyn Rally

Posted By: Excoriator

Corbyn Rally - 20th May 2017 10:54pm

I went to the West Kirby Rally today, and got there about an hour and a quarter before the great man arrived. The crowd was already huge and swelling. For curiosity I counted arrivals coming from the promenade over a one minute period and got a figure of about ten a second.

Joining the crowd I kept an eye on the flow of people and it stayed at about the same or more for at least an hour. That means 36,000 people.

Imagine my surprise to find the figure of 2,000 bandied about by the likes of the Wirral Globe. I have no experience of estimating the size of crowds, but stand by my estimate based on the rate of arrival. If anything my estimate would be low; I had no view of people coming from Dee Lane.

It is an indication of the bias that exists in the media that such a low figure should be published. But never mind. The polls are swinging Labour's way. The Tory lead is now about 9% and falling fast. I don't think Treeza's going to get quite the coronation she was hoping for. Even the Mail on Sunday is showing a 12 point lead, down from its previous figure of 18%

Personally, seeing what she's promising in her manifesto, I wonder how much worse she will be in power, and would be very glad to see her lose.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 20th May 2017 11:35pm

Corbyn is just 2% down from the percentage the tories won with in 2015 looking at the popular vote. Latest poll has Labour 35% Tories 44%

Unfortunately the popular vote doesn't translate very well with seats.

I believe West Kirby was Corbyn's 50th rally since the election was announced.

Its starting to look like there is a chance of a hung parliament, would Labour risk a Lib-Lab alliance again? I'd hope the Liberals wouldn't risk a Lib-Con alliance after getting walked over last time but I'm sure they would fall for it again.

Liberals have done themselves no favours in recent years but they could hold the balance of power.
Posted By: RUDEBOX

Re: Corbyn Rally - 20th May 2017 11:50pm

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Description: .
Attached picture Corbyn West Kirby.jpg
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 8:05am

Did you have your picture taken, with your banner Rude ?
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 8:46am


Labour would build 1 million new homes ,half of those 500,000 of those would be for social housing !

Blair and Brown built 7,780 council houses.(562 per year average) 0.3%


Jeremy's promises and probably on green belt too. It all seems very ambitious. Been done before though !

[Linked Image]
Posted By: derekdwc

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 9:45am

I've always thought that with this housing shortage why don't they build prefabricated houses as they did just after the war.
Surely with todays technology they could build cheaper,better, and quicker homes than traditional bricks and mortar.
You could train men to erect them and possibly construct the sections in shipyards. (Why not also have a small room for an exercise bike that could generate a small amount of electricity for storage and use, thus also making some a bit more healthier)
Have a look at click
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 10:44am

If the Conservatives win, we are indeed in for a hard time, TM will take it that her manifesto has been accepted, and that they now have carte blanche to implement more extreme measures, they will no doubt be looking at what legislation can be changed to give them more power to fleece us all.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 10:49am

There isn't really a housing shortage, it's just that they keep boarding houses up and knocking them down instead of refurbish them. This buts loads of money in the developers pockets instead of the people's pockets. They also need to spend money on policing and security in some areas to bring houses back into use.

This destroy and build policy isn't good for the country.
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 1:23pm

I suspect that brexit will mean a lot of wealthy folk leaving London. That has already started and the effect on property prices there is that they are now falling. Once this happens the 'investors' who bought these apartments etc as a way of storing money will withdraw too, and the prices will fall ever faster.

The effect will spread across the country, and an awful lot of conservative home owners will see the value of their property plunge.

This is a good thing for the young, and indeed a good thing for the country but I can't see those who enjoy talking about how the value of their house has shot up with their friends will lightly forgive the tories.

I am beginning to wonder if the tories want to lose this election. Having realised that Brexit is a car-crash, they don't want to be behind the wheel!
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 1:36pm

Corbyn went on to the Wirral Live show in Prenton Park where, from eye witness accounts, he was greeted like a Rock Star by a massive crowd - many tens of thousands if not more. This WAS reported by the media but in a way that minimised the support he received. I think the narrative is that 'He is not a leader' and that is what they are sticking to.

It's quite funny to hear this criticism from the old middle right PLP people who oppose Corbyn. Any one of them would be delighted to see a crowd of 50 or so! Yet this man can attract many thousands of people to hear him speak for 20 minutes, on a rather dull day on a promenade with no difficulty whatsoever. He has turned the Labour party into the biggest political party in Europe (and still growing) and kept a divided party together and managed a highly popular manifesto which - for a change - actually has policies that ordinary folk want to see happening as well as for once unashamedly supports what the party stands for.

I'd say he has done pretty well as a leader.
Posted By: cools

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 3:24pm

Hallelujah, saviour of our world in our midst, look for the bearded scruff and you shall find...now where's my sick bag.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 3:37pm

Ex. you might only be referring to this area. I would suggest from accounts in general, people across the country have no faith in the man or his policies at all. That's going by other social media groups, and anti Corbyn feelings running very high.

I do think the gap is narrowing at the moment, but what difference does any of it make ? People vote, and half the people will be happy, the other half won't. Who at the end of the day gives a monkeys ? Unless of course we have a re-run General Election, as it seems to be the suggested 'thing' now. Have a double 'go' on everything ! Someone will soon say the elections are fixed and all the rest of the propaganda that goes on .

I've listened to recordings of yesterday, and although uttering the words many want to hear, it was just uttering words that sounded weak with no clout. Very good as an activist, but not as a politician !


Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 3:41pm

Wow cools, bearded scruff, if we go by the old adage that clothes maketh man, then we would indeed be disappointed, look at the succession of allegedly well dressed men that have appeared before the courts, oh and what about that Icon of fashion as praised by Vogue magazine Terry May, £1000 handbags and still manages to look like an old spinster that the cat has slept on. wink
Posted By: cools

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 3:52pm

Casper, you would think he would make a little more effort, it's not like he can't afford it , at least £130,000 a year so I heard. It's also the promises he's making which obviously everybody would like but it just won't be achievable. It's like you all truly believe he can perform miracles. There's alot I don't like about the Tory manifesto by the way, but I've got to hope things will get better, no pain no gain!
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 4:15pm

We have had pain cools, and are being promised a lot more to come, how is it that those least able to pay are repeatedly being targeted by this government? austerity is a farce an ideal forced on us by those that are well able to afford it, for all the austerity measures they have put in place to what end? they have still borrowed more money than all the last Labour governments put together, the sixth richest country in the world, and we have food banks, poverty and people sleeping in the streets, wow what a wonderful job they are doing, it cant get much worse , can it?
Posted By: Excoriator

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 4:52pm

Well, poor Theresa has the unfortunate knack of wearing good clothes very badly. I saw a shot of her canvassing and she looked positively menacing. I suppose she could have been wearing body armour, but the overall effect was neither friendly nor welcoming.

As far as Corbyn is concerned he was quite tidy when I saw him. He was wearing a suit, no tie, but that is common these days. I suspect you have bought the failed propaganda that attempted to turn him into another Michael Foot. That failed. They are obviously very different animals. If you want to vote for someone dressed like a used car salesman (Cameron's style) then go ahead. It is singularly unappealing to me. I'd rather have someone who dresses like an ordinary person.
Posted By: joeblogs

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 5:12pm

it could all go like the britex and trump show,if he wins it's because they made him win,then it would look like you had a choice which believe me you never
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 21st May 2017 10:13pm

Originally Posted by granny
I've listened to recordings of yesterday, and although uttering the words many want to hear, it was just uttering words that sounded weak with no clout. Very good as an activist, but not as a politician !


I'd say the opposite, the proposals are diametrically opposite to the Tory party's actions and would improve the lives of the majority of the population as opposed to increasing the wallets of a few.

The country is getting richer and the majority of the population are getting poorer. Distribution of wealth is one of the main functions of Government, it is tied in to all the other functions (peace, health, development and education).

What do you want him to say?
Posted By: RUDEBOX

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 12:25am

Appropiate.

Attached picture Complacent.jpg
Posted By: snowhite

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 12:52am

Originally Posted by joeblogs
it could all go like the britex and trump show,if he wins it's because they made him win,then it would look like you had a choice which believe me you never
difference with trump is that he want people to work,and find work,How many are still not in work in the Wirral who are able to work???and are still draining the benefits or whatever they are claiming off the tax off the ones who are working to keep them on there fags and booze?does the Government not keep records of this.Why do they know how to fiddle the system?
Anyone been unemployed who can say???
Posted By: RUDEBOX

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 1:00am

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Posted By: eddtheduck

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 8:05am

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Image removed - This is a public part of our forum where any age can view the image and its contents that have been posted.
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 9:48am

Oh dear! denials by the Conservative Party, I did not have sex with that woman.
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 10:00am

Originally Posted by Excoriator
Joining the crowd I kept an eye on the flow of people and it stayed at about the same or more for at least an hour. That means 36,000 people.

Imagine my surprise to find the figure of 2,000 bandied about by the likes of the Wirral Globe. I have no experience of estimating the size of crowds, but stand by my estimate based on the rate of arrival.


if the picture posted is anything to go by, 2000 is pretty accurate.

36,000 people would be of football stadium proportions.
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 8:04pm

36000!! ..propaganda! There were just under 19,000 at Wembley for Tranmere v Forest Green..you couldn't fit that many on the lake car park.
The farmers market was on in West Kirby on Saturday so that probably took the other 34000 you counted through. wink

10/10 for trying..\

Mays not been in the job long enough to get slagged off so any rubbishing should be of the conservative party not May personally.

whats the slogan Theresa May---Corbyn Will
Posted By: RUDEBOX

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 8:15pm

Originally Posted by fish5133
36000!! ..propaganda!
Is this?

Attached picture Is this.jpg
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 8:19pm

Landslide victory for Corbyn then.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 8:19pm

Aha - I knew I'd seen an aerial photo of the rally somewhere! Great shot. Where can that be found online, please?
Posted By: RUDEBOX

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 8:21pm

Originally Posted by Greenwood
Aha - I knew I'd seen an aerial photo of the rally somewhere! Great shot. Where can that be found online, please?
Wirral Unite Community Branch NW/96 Facebook page
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 8:53pm

Car park is 100m X 25m = 2500m2, but its not full of people so call it about 1800m2

Normal close knit crowds are about 3.5 people per m2 but the further from the stage the less dense it is and around the stage it may be higher density than 3.5 so calling it on average about 3 people per m2.

Ends up with an estimate of 5400 people which is roughly the momentum estimate of 5000.
Posted By: Softy_Southerner

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 9:36pm

DD you've clearly got WAYYYY too much time on your hands smile smile smile smile

Great to see such a good turn out however many it actually was smile
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 10:22pm

Originally Posted by Softy_Southerner
DD you've clearly got WAYYYY too much time on your hands smile smile smile smile

Great to see such a good turn out however many it actually was smile


Did I mention I started to count them yesterday? wink

All I can say for sure is that not many bought ice-creams off me frown
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd May 2017 11:00pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by granny
I've listened to recordings of yesterday, and although uttering the words many want to hear, it was just uttering words that sounded weak with no clout. Very good as an activist, but not as a politician !


I'd say the opposite, the proposals are diametrically opposite to the Tory party's actions and would improve the lives of the majority of the population as opposed to increasing the wallets of a few.

The country is getting richer and the majority of the population are getting poorer. Distribution of wealth is one of the main functions of Government, it is tied in to all the other functions (peace, health, development and education).

What do you want him to say?


Silly question DD. I'd rather the man didn't say anything as I am totally fed up with his bull s..t and tactics. A creep of great proportions and tonight he has really hissed me off. So no vote for him. Not that it ever was my intention to vote for a Trotskyite, with a Marxist as a back up , but I always keep my options open in these matters. 2 down, 3 to go.....
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 2:43am

What is wrong with free education and a free health services?

What is wrong with bringing essential infrastructure back under UK control?

If you want "bull s..t and tactics" there is the obvious experts of that to vote for. Corbyn has no track record of this.

The way the numbers pan out, if you vote for any party apart from Labour and Conservative then you are effectively voting Conservative.

Who would run the most successful Government? The answer is probably the Conservatives. But its the country and its people as a whole that have to be successful not just a small group of people.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 8:08am

NOTHING is FREE DD. Health, education, are paid for by the tax payer. Free at the point of use, and to those who don't pay taxes.

Population increases is probably the greatest drawback to returning to the good old days.

Railways... back into public ownership. energy into public ownership, telecommunication back into public ownership ?

I think that was when the rot started. Strike after strike after strike....many still remember those dark days.

We could have a re -run and total control of the masses if we returned to that agenda and he and his cronies know it.

I also believe it was the beginning of privatisation in the first place and all connected to the EU agenda as they didn't want the strikes either. France had also had her fair share of strikes.
One reason to stop the country being brought to it's knees ever again.
Posted By: Greenwood

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 10:44am

Thanks for the info Rudebox; a great shot of the Marine Lake area.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 11:20am

Originally Posted by granny
returning to the good old days.


When were they? I think the ones you are referring to were after the nationalisation of much of our infrastructure.

Originally Posted by granny
Railways... back into public ownership. energy into public ownership, telecommunication back into public ownership ?


There is also water, electricity, gas, nuclear power stations.

How ridiculous is it when a foreign government owns our electricity supply? Its already nationalised but by the wrong nation!

Our rail network is the dearest and most inefficient in Europe.

How ridiculous is it when I can travel in one direction at £18 for 360 miles but it costs me over £100 to travel half that distance in the other.

Germany, France Austria, Sweden etc etc all have nationalised industries and even have things like Hotel chains in state ownership.

Even local buses and other local council services are operated by foreign countries - its madness!

Originally Posted by granny
I think that was when the rot started. Strike after strike after strike....many still remember those dark days.


There are still a lot of strikes, its just that the media do not publicise them like they used to and also that they have effectively been outlawed in some cases. There are far more people being abused by employers now than in the 70s.

The whole structure at the moment is unstable, there is an excessive amount of money travelling upwards, there is money travelling outwards but there is no money travelling downwards or inwards - this is unsustainable.

Originally Posted by granny
We could have a re -run and total control of the masses if we returned to that agenda and he and his cronies know it.


Its not about controlling the masses, its about controlling the environment and infrastructure.

How long would you put up with a neighbour owning a shilling coin machine on your bathroom door?
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 12:37pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
What is wrong with free education and a free health services?

What is wrong with bringing essential infrastructure back under UK control?


On paper nothing. In reality:

Free education for all will cost a fortune. Corbyn hasn't even fully costed that promise. If its made too easy then everyone will go to university for a year to doss around then just drop out. Those who got a grant did that when I was there - we lost over half of the first year students.

Free health service always has been and always will be free. If you want to start the old chestnut about privatisation then you need to look at Labour who started that ball rolling. There's a really good article on the web which shows which MPs (and its ALL three main parties) have links to private health companies.

UK infrastructure under UK control? British Rail of the 70s is a good example of that, or when the Post Office ran the telephones. The UK cannot competently do public services. If they could, then there would be no competition to Royal Mail.



Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 2:25pm

If it wasn't for the nationalisation of the rail services in 1948 they would probably hardly exist today. After building the railways back up the biggest damage was done in the Beeching era, some of that was necessary but it went way too far.

Health services are far from free, look at dentists, opticians, prescriptions and huge waiting lists (its hardly a free service if it is not being done!). Many People are disabled, dysfunctional and in pain because no free health service is available for them.

Many student loans are never paid back, I have a student loan of around of about £20,000 which unless I win the lottery will never be paid back. The real cost isn't that high but the Government have the loans as paper assets to balance their books, in reality it is a disguised cost.

It has been a big excuse for Universities to charge more for their services and expand. Drop out rates are huge because of the greed of the Universities, many students are taken on that are just not capable of completing the courses.

The Universities are gradually learning how to play the game, if industry and the Government are not prepared to pay for research then the Universities commercialise and sell the results of their research, many Universities now produce products (English?). At one time it would have been the country that reaped the profits but now it is not.
Posted By: derekdwc

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 3:57pm

I've always thought you got into a University on the strength of your exam results.
Personally I think certain courses like maths, the sciences and medical should have a higher priority than some others.
Posted By: jimbob

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 6:55pm

well said granny, I also remember those dark days, struggling to bring 3 kids up during strike after strike. Often brought about by little tin pot shop stewards who followed the whims certain union leaders
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd May 2017 7:22pm

Yeah, these terrible people that went on strike so they could have a nice little holiday without pay and live off their vast savings. Must be true because that's what the tory propaganda machine says .

Strikes are not a trivial things, it causes enormous hardship, we didn't have food banks back then to support us. One or two tin pot stewards couldn't convince families to go without out food, the workers were already desperate, they had no choice but to strike or be walked all over.

There are enough documentaries about all the main strikes, watch them, you will see suffering on an enormous scale not a load of "lefties" having a field day.

Where are they now?

Coal - gone.
Steel - gone.
Electricity - gone.
Gas - gone.
Ship building - gone.
Post offices - gone.
Royal mail - gone.
Railways - gone.
Car manufacture - gone.
Fishing - gone.
Water - gone.
Nuclear - gone.

All virtually demolished or sold off to foreign countries. We can't have a load of Olivers asking for more can we!
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Corbyn Rally - 24th May 2017 10:54am

There are plenty of reasons why all those industries have gone. Many have gone to overseas because they can do it cheaper or better. That affects all Western nations, not just the UK.

Its like all these people who whinge about the Poles or other foreigners coming here to take our jobs.

UK coal has been too sulphurous to burn for many years, which is why we use imports. Unless you don't care about the environment and acid rain and want a return to the days of smog?

As for the UK car industry. Doing quite well:

UK car production hits 17-year high as industry issues Brexit warning
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/apr/27/uk-car-industry-has-its-best-month-in-17-years

Or would you prefer to return to the days of BL and Austin Rover and the UK churn out poor quality cars nobody wants?

As for water, one wonders if it was sold off because of the impending EU rules about to be imposed because of how disgusting we were at dumping our waste into rivers and the sea:

Quote

In 1993, a European Court of Justice lawsuit forced the UK government and its newly privatised water industry to clean up infrastructure, and designate sufficient bathing water sites. However, the UK continued discharging raw sewage into the sea until 1998, longer than any other European country.
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Corbyn Rally - 24th May 2017 12:04pm

A bit more about power stations using wood pellets over coal and the reasons why here:

https://www.drax.com/technology/this-is-how-you-make-a-biomass-wood-pellet/

Quote
Wood pellets like these are being used at Drax Power Station to generate electricity and power cities. Not only are they renewable and sustainable, but because they are compressed, dried and made from incredibly fine wood fibres, they’re also a very efficient fuel for power stations.




Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 24th May 2017 12:16pm

There are loads of other EU countries dumping raw sewage long after 1998 - Greece, Italy, Ireland and Spain in the last few years, some are still doing it.

There is no significant UK car industry, the big producers are not UK companies. As for quality, compare BL to Ford, Vauxhall, Renault, Fiat and Alfa in the 70s they all had their problems, cars were being built to a budget, longevity was not a key factor.

The coal industry is increasing in this country again.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 24th May 2017 11:14pm

.http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21722214-jeremy-corbyns-party-no-shape-form-effective-opposition-tories-labour-unfit

Attached picture 20170520_BRD000_0.jpg
Posted By: fish5133

Re: Corbyn Rally - 25th May 2017 6:49am

Which party do we blame we blame for the decline of the flint axe head industry?


Posted By: derekdwc

Re: Corbyn Rally - 25th May 2017 8:36am

If the Tories do get a huge majority to govern I shudder to think how much power they'll have with nobody to stop them. No u-turns and the rich getting richer and the poorer having more austerity thrust upon them.
The NHS getting more privatetised (via possibly a TTIP type agreement with America). How many mps have shares in private healthcare?
Full steam ahead with the MSM and papers to start reporting their version of "the truth" for the benefit of the Tories.


re using your house as an asset to pay for care I wonder how that works within the next paragraphs

The other commercial opportunity: the dementia tax is a stealth incentive to take out equity release mortgages.”

I had to look up what an equity release mortgage is; being in social housing, I haven’t had the opportunity or the need to find out about this particular financial product. Here’s what I found, courtesy of moneysupermarket.com:

With a lifetime mortgage, you take out a loan, secured on your property, and receive that amount as a tax-free lump sum. You do not usually make monthly repayments. Instead, the interest “rolls up”, and the loan plus interest is repaid after your death, when the property is sold.

With a home reversion plan, you sell all or part of your home in return for a tax-free lump sum and a guaranteed lifetime lease, with no monthly repayments to meet. After your death the house is sold, so the lender gets back its percentage share.

The only difference between this and the Dementia Tax is that, with the Dementia Tax, homeowners would buy an insurance policy instead of taking out a loan – guaranteeing that no money returns to any family member after the death of the homeowner.

(Or so it seems to me.)

The commenter adds: “This fast-growing market is dominated by Legal and General in the UK (29pc market share), of which a major shareholder is Capital Group, of which a key UK executive is Philip May, husband of Theresa May.”

Mr May is certainly a Capital Group shareholder, as described in this Guardian article. The headline may be a candidate for the Graun‘s ‘corrections and clarifications’ column because Capital certainly holds shares in Legal and General, and if L&G ends up selling the “products” the Conservative Party claims will be available for people facing the Dementia Tax,
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Corbyn Rally - 25th May 2017 1:03pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The coal industry is increasing in this country again.


You might want to read this:

Quote
British power generation achieves first ever coal-free day
National Grid hails milestone as other sources like gas, nuclear, wind and solar allow UK to keep lights on with all coal-fired powerplants offline



https://www.theguardian.com/environ...free-day-since-the-industrial-revolution


Quote
Coal has seen significant declines in recent years, accounting for just 9% of electricity generation in 2016, down from around 23% the year before, as coal plants closed or switched to burning biomass such as wood pellets.

Britain’s last coal power station will be forced to close in 2025, as part of a government plan to phase out the fossil fuel to meet its climate change commitments.


Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 25th May 2017 8:59pm

Interesting read ...

At the start of the week YouGov asked people an open ended question, asking without any prompting if they could remember any of the promises that Labour or the Conservatives had made in their election manifestos

For Labour there were clear cut throughs by positive policies: 32% of people recalled the promise to axe tuition fees, 21% remembered promises to increase NHS funding, 20% recalled promises to nationalise the railways, Royal Mail or National Grid. All of these are policies which polling has found the public generally support, and which are relatively clear and easy to understand.

For the Conservative party only one policy was recalled by more than one in five people – the changes to care funding (which was often described as dementia tax, or taking old peoples homes, or similarly negative terms). In contrast to the simple and popular policies that people recalled from Labour, the one cut-through policy from the Tory manifesto was both unpopular and complicated. The next most recalled policies were going ahead with Brexit (recalled by 12%) and means-testing the Winter Fuel Allowance (10%).

Of course even when people do recall policies, that’s not really what they vote on – voting behaviour is much more about the broad perceptions of the parties, what they stand for, their leaders and their perceived competence. There are clear signs that the poor Conservative manifesto launch fed through into that.

Before the manifesto launches 35% of people thought the Conservative party’s policies seemed well thought-through, 38% did not. A week later only 19% think their policies are well thought-through, 54% do not. Contrast this with the positive impact of Labour’s manifesto. Before their launch only 25% of people thought they had well-thought through policies, now 31% of people do.

When a key plank of the Conservative party’s offering to the country has been the claim that they are the strong and steady party of competence, the drop in the proportion of people thinking they’ve well thought-through policies for the country should be worrying for them.

SOURCE
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 26th May 2017 8:53pm

On coal, there was only one day that we had coal-free electricity generation in the UK (not sure about the imported electricity).

Today we had the record amount of solar power online, 24.3% of our power was solar for a peiod but even then 1.4% was still coal.

We can't get rid of the coal generators until we have 100% generation capability from other non-solar, non-tidal, non-wave, non-wind sources.

A dark still day in winter will still need 100% power generation, we have not got enough biomass, nuclear, gas and hydro to cover it, we still need coal.

The transition from coal to biomass on the existing stations seems a bit counter-productive when we are importing that massive amount of biomass by fossil fuel powered ships etc.

A slight caveat is that I know nothing about oil fueled power stations if we still have any?
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 1:14am


"I never met the IRA" !



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Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 1:21am


British Out of Ireland March 1984 !



Attached picture adec274bda68d482bb77db15a6ca9d319bd7d03853729c0c7f1a658d80e29fd8_3958094.jpg
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 2:46am

Are you also going to cite every British politician who aided the independence of Ireland in 1914 and 1920?

Gerry Adams was never a member of the IRA.

The picture with McGuinness was in the House of Commons, 13 years after McGuinness was elected as Sinn Fein MP for Londonderry.

The person at Bobby Sands' funeral was was not Jeremy Corbyn it was probably Owen Carron.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 9:18am

Other British Politicians probably weren't attempting to be elected for British Prime Minister.

Mr Corbyn and Mr Adams at a Sands/Connolly event

[Linked Image]


The true extent of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell’s links with the IRA is revealed by a Telegraph investigation.


It can be disclosed that for seven years running, while the IRA “armed struggle” was at its height, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke at official republican commemorations to honour dead IRA terrorists, IRA “prisoners of war” and the active “soldiers of the IRA.”


The official programme for the 1988 event, held one week after the IRA murdered three British servicemen in the Netherlands, states that “force of arms is the only method capable of bringing about a free and united Socialist Ireland.” Mr Corbyn used the event to attack the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the precursor of the peace process.

He said it had resulted in no improvement in the lives of the people of Northern Ireland, adding: “It strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”

The editorial board of a hard-Left magazine, of which Mr Corbyn was a member, wrote an article praising the Brighton bombing. In its article on the IRA attack, which almost wiped out Margaret Thatcher’s Cabinet, the editorial board of London Labour Briefing said the atrocity showed that “the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it.”

According to an authoritative parliamentary reference work, Mr Corbyn was general secretary of the editorial board. He wrote the front-page story in the same issue of Briefing.

The same edition of Briefing, for December 1984, carried a reader’s letter praising the “audacity” of the IRA attack and stating: “What do you call four dead Tories? A start.”

It mocked Norman, now Lord, Tebbit, the trade secretary who was dug out of the rubble of the Grand Hotel, saying: “Try riding your bike now, Norman.”

It can also be revealed that in 2004 Mr McDonnell, now Labour’s shadow chancellor, was given a special award by Sinn Fein and another IRA-supporting body for the “unfailing political and personal support he has given to the republican community in the Six Counties over many years.”

[Linked Image]
John McDonnell is presented with a Hunger Strike commemorative plaque by Gerry Kelly

The award was presented to him at a Sinn Fein fundraising dinner by Gerry Kelly, the IRA terrorist who bombed the Old Bailey, killing one and injuring almost 200.

Kelly, now a senior Sinn Fein politician, also led the 1983 breakout of IRA inmates from the Maze prison, during which he shot a prison officer in the head.

As has been widely reported, Mr McDonnell also honoured IRA terrorists, though in his case only after the ceasefire.

In his apology for the remarks last month, Mr McDonnell claimed he only made them to promote the peace process.

In fact, however, Mr McDonnell told the IRA’s official newspaper that he opposed the peace process negotiations to create a power-sharing assembly in what became the Good Friday Agreement.

He said: “An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years…the settlement must be for a united Ireland.”

The disclosures are made after research by the Telegraph in archives in London, Oxford and Belfast.

Nigel Dodds, the Democratic Unionist MP for North Belfast, said: “Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell speak about honest politics and straight talking, but they should stop trying to pretend and tell lies that they were pro-peace. They were pro-terrorism. They were enemies of the peace process. They had a clear choice between the IRA and peaceful nationalism and they chose the IRA.”

Between 1986 and 1992, Mr Corbyn attended and spoke each year at the annual “Connolly/Sands” commemoration in London to honour dead IRA terrorists and support imprisoned IRA “prisoners of war.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

DD, You can support and make as many excuses as you like for this man and his colleagues , but it won't change anything !








Posted By: derekdwc

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 11:24am

If what you posted in your 3 pics was as DD said I'd say it was fake news - something Fallon and the right wing Billionare owned populist press will repeat over and over in the next few days.

Not seen any of them (MSM) saying about how Corbyn won the 2013 The Gandhi Foundation International Peace Award.

2013: Jeremy Corbyn, for his "consistent efforts over a 30 year Parliamentary career to uphold the Gandhian values of social justice and non violence."
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 12:15pm

Corbyn was never a member of the London Labour Briefing, he wrote articles for the magazine like many other politicians write articles in newspapers etc that may also contain other articles that they don't agree with.

A slight correction to my previous post - it wasn't Owen Carron it was probably John Sands, Bobby's friend or maybe John Sands, Bobby's brother.

Here is a picture that is a bit clearer.

[Linked Image]





Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 12:22pm

Some more from the same article, in case you haven't read it all.
This article is NOT anything to do with our present General Election , it was printed in 2015.

Programmes for the events have been obtained by the Telegraph.

The programme for the 1987 event, on May 16 of that year, praises the “soldiers of the IRA,” saying: “We are proud of our people and the revolutionaries who are an integral part of that people.”

The programme for the 1988 event, on May 8 of that year, states that “in this, the conclusive phase in the war to rid Ireland of the scourge of British imperialism… force of arms is the only method capable of bringing this about.”

The event took place the day after the funerals of the service personnel killed by the IRA in the Netherlands.

Each programme includes a list of IRA “prisoners of war” who are to be honoured that year, including the Brighton bomber, Patrick Magee, and sectarian murderers.

The lists include their prisons and birthdays, with IRA supporters in the UK encouraged to send them birthday cards in jail.

Mr Corbyn typically spoke alongside senior figures from Sinn Fein, including Gerry Adams at the 1991 event, at which he attacked “British imperialism” and praised Bobby Sands, the IRA terrorist who died on hunger-strike.
The events were organised by the Wolfe Tone Society, which describes itself in the programmes as an “Irish republican support group based in London. Its work consists of helping republican prisoners’ relatives and promoting the policies and publications of Sinn Fein.”

Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell “work closely” with the Wolfe Tone Society, according to its convenor, Dennis Grace, speaking at the 2006 event.

It was at the Wolfe Tone Society’s 2003 commemoration that Mr McDonnell made his now notorious comments calling for Sands and other terrorists to be “honoured,” adding: “It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table.”

In his apology last month for the remarks, Mr McDonnell claimed that he made them to promote the peace process, saying: “I went out and argued for the peace process and I made this speech to a group of republicans because one of the problems we had is that if there was a feeling that they were defeated or humiliated they would not stand down.”

In fact, however, the Telegraph can disclose, Mr McDonnell initially opposed the peace process. In January 1998, during the negotiations for a new power-sharing assembly which three months later became the Good Friday agreement, he told the IRA’s official newspaper, An Phoblacht: “An assembly is not what people have laid down their lives for over thirty years. We want peace, but the settlement must be just and the settlement must be for an agreed and united Ireland.”

He changed his position when the IRA accepted the accord and supported the agreement, though he continued to attack the British government for their “failure of nerve in dealing with unionism.”

Mr Corbyn was also active in the Labour Committee on Ireland, another explicitly pro-republican pressure group, speaking at its Labour conference fringe meetings and signing LCI’s statement of objectives in 1984.

LCI regarded Northern Ireland as a colony and the Loyalist majority as a construct which should be ignored. It campaigned vitriolically against the peaceful, constitutional nationalist party, the SDLP, whose supporters it described as “cannon-fodder…manipulated and directed by a sophisticated management caucus.”

Much of the autumn 1985 edition of the LCI journal, Labour and Ireland, is devoted to a six-page personal attack on John Hume, the then SDLP leader, Nobel Peace Prize winner and key architect of the peace process.

The journal described him as “dogmatic,” “insecure,” and suffering from a “deeply-rooted need for adulation and recognition as an international statesman.”

Diane Abbott, the new shadow international development secretary, was also a strong supporter of LCI.

In a 1984 interview with Labour and Ireland, she attacked the Unionist population of Northern Ireland as an “enclave of white supremacist ideology” comparable to white settlers in Zimbabwe.

Mr Corbyn also strongly opposed a precursor to the peace process, the Anglo-Irish Agreement. He said on two occasions that the agreement “strengthens rather than weakens the border between the six and the 26 counties, and those of us who wish to see a united Ireland oppose the agreement for that reason.”

However, it is the explicit support for the Brighton bombing in London Labour Briefing magazine that may prove the most controversial.

In its December 1984 leader, the editorial board “disassociated itself” from an article the previous month criticising the bombing, saying the criticism was a “serious political misjudgment.”

The board said it “reaffirmed its support for, and solidarity with, the Irish republican movement” and added that “the British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it.”

Alongside its editorial, the board reprinted a speech by Gerry Adams describing the bombing as a "blow for democracy" and the "inevitable result of the British presence in [Ireland]."

Briefing earlier stated: “We refuse to parrot the ritual condemnation of ‘violence’ because we insist on placing responsibility where it lies…. Let our ‘Iron Lady’ know this: those who live by the sword shall die by it. If she wants violence, then violence she will certainly get.”
According to the authoritative reference work, Parliamentary Profiles, by the late Andrew Roth, Mr Corbyn was general secretary of the editorial board at the time. Other reference material describes him as a member of the board. Mr Corbyn ran Briefing’s mailing list and supporters’ register, according to an advert in the March 1983 issue.

He usually chaired its fringe meetings at Labour conferences and other events and was a keynote speaker at its annual general meeting in July 1985, after the Brighton articles appeared.

In a telephone interview during the recent leadership campaign, Mr Corbyn was repeatedly asked by a BBC interviewer whether he condemned the murders by the IRA.

He five times refused to answer the question directly, saying: “I condemn what was done by the British Army as well as the other sides” before the line went dead.

Mr Corbyn and Mr McDonnell did not respond to requests for comment.

Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 12:29pm



Corbyn became the local Labour Party's agent and organiser,[32] and had responsibility for the 1979 general election campaign in Hornsey.[16] Around this time, he became involved with London Labour Briefing, where he was a contributor and member of the editorial board during the 1980s. It has been reported that he served as its general secretary for some time
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 12:55pm

Corbyn wasn't on the editorial board, Private Eye repeated this claim which seemed to originate from Andrew Roth.

You can read the profile HERE

"joined LONDON LABOUR BRIEFING editorial board - led by Ken Livingstone and Ted Knight and designed to push the London party Leftward - as General Secretary"
Posted By: cools

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 1:45pm

The more I learn about this JC , the more I distrust him. A true snake in the grass just waiting to cripple this country if he ever gets a chance. Telling everybody what they want to hear but as I have said before not achievable in my opinion. Don't trust him one bit the movie Face Off jumps into my mind..
Posted By: venice

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 1:50pm

I dont distrust him, I think hes a good man . My worry is that that we will end up taking decades to recover, and we will be weak sitting ducks for any country or outside pressure groups that feel like stamping he will , with all the best intentions, be too lenient, too reasonable (with EU) about a Brexit deal ,which when combined with the borrowing of billions and billions will see us in serious trouble ,especially if borrowing rates rise, which could take us decades to recover from . We will be sitting ducks for any pressure groups /countries that feel like trampling us.
Posted By: venice

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 1:57pm

Sorry about that post, it was too late to alter it, some of my alterations were misplaced in the text and it really doesnt read correctly at all .Should have read .

I dont distrust him, I think hes a good man . My worry is that he will , with all the best intentions, be too lenient, too reasonable (with EU) about a Brexit deal ,which when combined with the borrowing of billions and billions will see us in serious trouble ,especially if borrowing rates rise, which could take us decades to recover from . We will be sitting ducks for any pressure groups /countries that feel like trampling us. Half the problem will also be that he trusts 'the people' not to take advantage if he puts various helps etc in place etc , but loads I think will just screw the improved distribution system and it will bankrupt us.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 5:20pm

How anybody can trust the tories is way beyond me. They are blatantly making the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Tory manifestos are sales blurb to get votes, as soon as they get in power the manifesto is chucked in the bin. Yet again they have a cap on pensioners care contribution in the manifesto, this lasted two weeks last time before they junked it.

The tories have hugely reduced corporation tax from 28% to 19% but keep on grabbing money from the less well off. They have abolished the small business reductions so that small businesses now pay the same rate as huge businesses. They plan to reduce corporation tax even further to 17% whilst increasing the punishing austerity measures.

Corbyn has always openly done what he does to create peace, he sincerely believed a united Ireland was the best option. This could well have been the case if it hadn't been for the enormous discrimination against the Catholics (which is now officially acknowledged by all parties). The Catholics were forced to leave Northern Ireland in droves which created an unbalanced community and the aggro ramped up again.
Posted By: jimbob

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 6:13pm

Corbyn lives in a pipe dream. You only have to look round the world to see his system of government has failed.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 29th May 2017 6:30pm

Which countries are they. All countries that promote the division of wealth end up in civil war or bankruptcy. .

Those countries that invest in their people and infrastructure succeed.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 12:41am

Originally Posted by cools
The more I learn about this JC , the more I distrust him. A true snake in the grass just waiting to cripple this country if he ever gets a chance. Telling everybody what they want to hear but as I have said before not achievable in my opinion. Don't trust him one bit the movie Face Off jumps into my mind..


Exactly, Cools. He's a devious, double headed snake.
His socialist policies are from archaic experimentation which hasn't worked as Jimbob says.

Corbyn's style of left Socialism is on a par with Venezuela and we see what's happened there. He's not Labour left, he's Labour far left and it's worrying when Mcdonnell is a Marxist, Corbyn a Trotskyist being backed up by McCluskey , who's a Communist. Goodness knows what Abbott is underneath her delectable grin but what a line up to lead this country !

I am also amazed that the likes of Blair, Brown, Major, Clegg, and others who are keeping very quiet. They have had enough to shout about over Brexit, surely they cannot see this man as being a leader of a Labour Government ? If he doesn't get elected (please God) I can see the party splitting sending him and his treacherous cronies to the back of beyond.

John McDonnell has already called for 'insurrection' prior to the last General Election. If the Tories are elected, he'll do exactly the same thing to rock and try to bring down the Government if it's not Labour.

I've had various correspondence from my Labour MP and I quite like her, but I won't be voting for her as the thought of giving Corbyn my vote is excruciating.

Why Socialism Doesn't Work

1. Socialism is the Big Lie of the twentieth century. While it promised prosperity, equality, and security, it delivered poverty, misery, and tyranny. Equality was achieved only in the sense that everyone was equal in his or her misery.

In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government intervention its pernicious, seductive appeal. In the long run, socialism has always proven to be a formula for tyranny and misery.

A pyramid scheme is ultimately unsustainable because it is based on faulty principles. Likewise, collectivism is unsustainable in the long run because it is a flawed theory. Socialism does not work because it is not consistent with fundamental principles of human behavior. The failure of socialism in countries around the world can be traced to one critical defect: it is a system that ignores incentives.

In a capitalist economy, incentives are of the utmost importance. Market prices, the profit-and-loss system of accounting, and private property rights provide an efficient, interrelated system of incentives to guide and direct economic behavior. Capitalism is based on the theory that incentives matter!

Under socialism, incentives either play a minimal role or are ignored totally. A centrally planned economy without market prices or profits, where property is owned by the state, is a system without an effective incentive mechanism to direct economic activity. By failing to emphasize incentives, socialism is a theory inconsistent with human nature and is therefore doomed to fail. Socialism is based on the theory that incentives don’t matter!

2. The strength of capitalism can be attributed to an incentive structure based upon the three Ps: (1) prices determined by market forces, (2) a profit-and-loss system of accounting and (3) private property rights. The failure of socialism can be traced to its neglect of these three incentive-enhancing components.

3. By their failure to foster, promote, and nurture the potential of their people through incentive-enhancing institutions, centrally planned economies deprive the human spirit of full development. Socialism fails because it kills and destroys the human spirit–just ask the people leaving Cuba in homemade rafts and boats [and those waiting in long lines today in Venezuela struggling, and often failing, to buy food].

4. The temptress of socialism is constantly luring us with the offer: “give up a little of your freedom and I will give you a little more security.” As the experience of this century has demonstrated, the bargain is tempting but never pays off. We end up losing both our freedom and our security.

Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 8:50am

And if we vote Tory we are going to get, poverty misery and tyranny, but we will have to work that much harder and longer for it, so whats the difference?

My biggest fear of leaving the EU was being left with a Tory dictatorship, stripped of any gains we have made toward equality and pushed back into Victorian times, if you think Corbyn is a snake in the grass take a closer look at the alternative Tory line up, do you really believe that they understand how ordinary people live? the only thing they believe is of how much use we are to them, and like any other dictatorship if you are of little use or value you are forgotten, given the minimum of support at the least cost.

PS I was going to suggest in the spirit of true socialism that we have a whip around for poor Dave Cameron for some trainers at Sports Direct, or a M&S dress for his poor wife,from all accounts they must be getting down to their last few million. wink
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 9:58am


The Story of Chicken Licken

Once upon a time there was a little chick called Chicken Licken who lived on a farmyard in the countryside.
One day, Chicken Licken went to the woods. He stopped by an oak tree. Suddenly a tiny acorn dropped from
the tree – wheeeeeeeeee! And hit Chicken Licken on the head – BONK!

Unfortunately, Chicken Licken didn’t see the acorn. He looked up the clear blue sky. “Oh, no!” he said “The
sky is falling, I must tell the king.”

So he ran and he ran and he ran until he got to the farmyard where he met Henny Penny.
“What’s the hurry?” clucked Henny Penny.
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” clucked Henny Penny

So Chicken Licken and Henny Penny scurried off to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” crowed Cocky Locky.
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” crowed Cocky Locky

So Chicken Licken, Henny Penny and Cocky Locky scurried off to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” quacked Ducky Lucky and Drakey Lakey
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” quacked Ducky Lucky and Drakey Lakey

So Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, Cocky Locky, Ducky Lucky and Drakey Lakey scurried off to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” honked Goosey Loosey
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” honked Goosey Loosey

So Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, Cocky Locky , Ducky Lucky, Drakey Lakey and Goosey Loosey scurried off
to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” gobbled Turkey Lurkey
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“I’d better come too” gobbled Turkey Lurkey

So Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, Cocky Locky , Ducky Lucky, Drakey Lakey, Goosey Loosey and Turkey
Lurky scurried off to find the king.
“What’s the hurry?” snapped Foxy Loxy.
“The sky is falling and I’m off to tell the king” cried Chicken Licken
“Follow me, my feathery friends, I can help you find the king” smiled Foxy Loxy.

So, Chicken Licken, Henny Penny, Cocky Locky, Ducky Lucky, Draky Lakey, Goosey Loosey and Turkey Lurky
followed Foxy Loxy deeper into the forest.

Foxy Loxy was just getting ready to gobble up the feathery friends when suddenly a tiny acorn dropped
from the tree – wheeeeeeeeee! And hit Foxy Loxy on the head – BONK!

Luckily, Foxy Loxy didn’t see the acorn. He looked up the clear blue sky. “Oh, no!” he said “The sky is
falling, I must tell the king.”

Foxy Loxy ran off and was never seen again. Everyone looked at Chicken Licken.

“Are you sure the sky fell on your head” they said.
“Well, maybe it was an acorn” said Chicken Licken!
And they chased him all the way home to the farmyard.

Morning Casper hi
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 10:58am

Not a sensible thing to say about the Cameron's, Casper. Corbyn raised in Yewtree Manor ! His mother's family were VERY well off according to his brother Piers ( a Communist ).

Corbyn 'profile' He's also fluent in Spanish, reads Latin American Literature, has a deep connection with South American states, has been likened to various leaders of South American states, his first wife a Chilean refugee, 2nd wife, Mexican. His manifesto has been likened to Hugo Chavez. They are the dictatorship countries ,Casper. Have a look at images of these places , not the cities but outside in the small towns and villages and see the poverty, the dirt tracks the houses on stilts and the run down deprivation. Then tell us that 21st Socialism works.

Now, the worrying thing is about Corbyn, his policies will take longer than one term of office in Westminster, and he knows that ! Corbyn is NOT about to resign as leader of the Labour Party, which I find incredibly worrying as it shows his determination to control. He could partly or fully change ALL the rules and how else do dictators come into control ?

" Mr Corbyn, considered the UK’s equivalent of Bernie Sanders, has a personal and activist history in Latin America, citing Salvador Allende, the Chilean president who was deposed (and allegedly murdered) during Chile’s 1973 CIA backed Coup d’etat as a personal hero. Some in South America have even likened him to a British Pepe Mujica, former president or Uruguay."

His friends !

[Linked Image]
Fernando Lugo (President of Paraguay), Evo Morales (President of Bolivia), Lula da Silva (President of Brazil), Rafael Correa (President of Ecuador) and Hugo Chávez (President of Venezuela) in 2009. January 29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_of_the_21st_century

Socialism of the 21st century argues that both free-market industrial capitalism and twentieth-century socialism have failed to solve urgent problems of humanity, like poverty, hunger, exploitation, economic oppression, sexism, racism, the destruction of natural resources, and the absence of a truly participative democracy.[2] Therefore, because of the local unique historical conditions, socialism of the 21st century is often contrasted with previous applications of socialism in other countries and aims for a more decentralized and participatory planning process.[3] Socialism of the 21st century has democratic socialist elements, but primarily resembles Marxist revisionism.[3]
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 11:25am

I always thought of a Ponzi scheme as being highly representative of capitalism. The money is bound to flow up the pyramid and those at the bottom of the pyramid get nowhere, the longer it lasts the more people there are at the bottom.

Your criticism of socialism is that it loses incentive then you use Venezuela as an example of where socialism failed, however Venezuela has not failed through lack of incentive, it has failed through crime and corruption. A robust police force should have been a priority but was ignored in the hurry to do other things.

There will always be greed, every system needs policing to control that greed whether capitalist or socialist.

Socialism doesn't take a lot of change to become progressive-socialism which is a realistic system. Capitalism hasn't got an equivalent way of moderating itself.

An important thing is that incentive also needs opportunity, something which is often totally overlooked.
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 1:10pm

Hi granny, very droll, here's one to think on:

There is no such thing as paranoia.
Your worst fears can come true at any moment.

As for Dave Cameron its not about the money, its about Dave marching into Sports Direct accompanied by his minders straight to the front of the queue in true Tory style, without even the the courtesy of an excuse me, manners cost nothing, the arrogance must have come from his days as a buller boy and the belief that you can bully and pay for your way out of anything.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 2:08pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper


Your criticism of socialism is that it loses incentive then you use Venezuela as an example of where socialism failed, however Venezuela has not failed through lack of incentive, it has failed through crime and corruption. A robust police force should have been a priority but was ignored in the hurry to do other things.

There will always be greed, every system needs policing to control that greed whether capitalist or socialist.

.


You are correct to a point. The downfall of Venezuela began when Perez in the 1970's nationalised the petroleum and oil industry. I think the Politicians saw it as a feast as the oil prices were high at the same time they offered bribes of hand outs to the people in the way of 'benefits'.
Venezuelan politicians are still robbing the country (socialists) .There are many more examples of such.

A bit like the oil rich Arab nation of UAE and others do. All wealthy due to perks and benefits. Emirati men receive $19,000 when they marry an Emirati woman, for example, but they only have 9 million population. Venezuela population in 1970's was 11 million, today it's 31 million and the bribes don't work any longer.

Followed by Chavez cutting ties to the World Bank and the IMF.

I probably focus more on Venezuela as my brother-in-law is Venezuelan and his family still live out there, so I know more of what goes on, maybe .
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 2:10pm

Originally Posted by casper
Hi granny, very droll, here's one to think on:

There is no such thing as paranoia.
Your worst fears can come true at any moment.

As for Dave Cameron its not about the money, its about Dave marching into Sports Direct accompanied by his minders straight to the front of the queue in true Tory style, without even the the courtesy of an excuse me, manners cost nothing, the arrogance must have come from his days as a buller boy and the belief that you can bully and pay for your way out of anything.


The difference is Casper, that's not got anything to do with political policies and manifestos !
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 2:31pm

Originally Posted by casper
Hi granny, very droll, here's one to think on:

There is no such thing as paranoia.
Your worst fears can come true at any moment.

As for Dave Cameron its not about the money, its about Dave marching into Sports Direct accompanied by his minders straight to the front of the queue in true Tory style, without even the the courtesy of an excuse me, manners cost nothing, the arrogance must have come from his days as a buller boy and the belief that you can bully and pay for your way out of anything.


You obviously read the 'tittle tattle' newspapers to pick up stuff like that, Casper. Should Mr Cameron gone into Harrods and bought a pair of sparkly shoes like Mrs May's, you would have found something to complain about that too. laugh

I'll tell you a story. One Labour MP whom I bumped into, was so arrogant that he wouldn't even bend down to tie his own shoe lace. He asked his chauffer to do it for him. He came from Kirby in Liverpool...who the f.. did he think he was ?
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 2:55pm

Oh yes. One of your hero's

Insurrection = a violent uprising against an authority or government.

[youtube]za5GYbfRmWo[/youtube]

I think I'll vote Lib/Dem. At least , if they were elected we'd all be able to smoke pot and swoon over the possibility of having psychosis in the near future where nothing will matter at all ! Yipeee !
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 7:01pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
Hi granny, very droll, here's one to think on:

There is no such thing as paranoia.
Your worst fears can come true at any moment.

As for Dave Cameron its not about the money, its about Dave marching into Sports Direct accompanied by his minders straight to the front of the queue in true Tory style, without even the the courtesy of an excuse me, manners cost nothing, the arrogance must have come from his days as a buller boy and the belief that you can bully and pay for your way out of anything.


The difference is Casper, that's not got anything to do with political policies and manifestos !


Yes I know granny, it was a follow on about individuals that emanated from your comments about JC being a snake in the grass which I also believe has nothing to do with manifestos and policies (sorry about the sarcasm) we have people from all parties that have no right to be there, that are in it for themselves and what they can gain from it, take for example Neil Hamilton disgraced ex who Tory has wormed his way back onto the Westminster gravy train courtesy of UKIP, and there are many like him.
Posted By: RUDEBOX

Re: Corbyn Rally - 30th May 2017 8:33pm

Somebody seems rattled.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 1:18pm



Corbyn pledges one million jobs for British workers

The "vast majority" of the one million good quality jobs Labour has pledged would go to British workers, Jeremy Corbyn has said.
The vast majority will be for people coming out of our schools and our colleges and our universities - and we will not allow anyone to only recruit overseas for jobs here.

He said Labour would build an economy where "everyone shares in our country's wealth".

Who is everyone ?

Asked if he could guarantee that all or a proportion of the one million jobs would go to British workers, Mr Corbyn said after the speech: "They would obviously be for people looking for work.

"They've got to recruit in an open way so that everyone gets a fair chance.

Who is likely to be getting the 'fair chance' in that case. Maybe a twist on words ?


A Labour government would pump £250bn into industry through a new national investment bank to "unleash" untapped potential across the country, he said.
Where is the money coming from ?

Speaking in York, Mr Corbyn said Labour's industrial strategy was "serious, comprehensive and radical".

Leading innovator

After Mr Corbyn's speech, shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey said Labour's first industrial mission would be to ensure that 60% of UK energy comes from low carbon or renewable sources by 2020.

Renewables produce more than 20% of the UK’s electricity, and EU targets means that this is likely to increase to 30% by 2020.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40127661

Today he's at Age (Concern) and saying that he thinks care homes that can't manage should go into Council Authority. Does that mean our council tax will increase even more, as there has been no mention from him to give more allowance to councils or financial support for social care ? (not that I have heard)


This man is a pain in the bum. I actually hope he wins this election because the gripes won't stop if he doesn't win . Let the people see how they end up after 5 yrs of his Government, it's not even Labour, and if Tony Blair was standing again, (and all know my thoughts about him,) I think it would be preferable. That is without telling a lie Mr Corbyn.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 1:35pm

Councils traditionally provided care homes, after all, the councils fund many people in them. Its only in recent times that the councils have contracted out to private homes on a large scale.

I can't see anything else negative in what you say other than I don't understand the necessity for low carbon power, Jeremy could do with listening to his brother on that one.

Banks as you know make very large profits.
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 1:59pm

Oh come on granny, we can all cherry pick from statements made by both sides, Terry May won't rule out income tax hikes, right after that statement Michael Fallon and Boris are saying there will be no tax rises not for the top 5% ??? who is running the Tory ship the 1922 committee? perhaps they all follow her to see whats she's going to do or say next, the best one is there aren't any money trees, in her response to the nurse last night, perhaps someone should have reminded her that this Island of ours is a great big money tree for the hedge fund merchants and the tax evaders.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 4:06pm

Originally Posted by casper
Oh come on granny, we can all cherry pick from statements made by both sides, Terry May won't rule out income tax hikes, right after that statement Michael Fallon and Boris are saying there will be no tax rises not for the top 5% ??? who is running the Tory ship the 1922 committee? perhaps they all follow her to see whats she's going to do or say next, the best one is there aren't any money trees, in her response to the nurse last night, perhaps someone should have reminded her that this Island of ours is a great big money tree for the hedge fund merchants and the tax evaders.


Not cherry picking, Casper. Asking questions and you haven't given any answers !
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 4:08pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Councils traditionally provided care homes, after all, the councils fund many people in them. Its only in recent times that the councils have contracted out to private homes on a large scale.

I can't see anything else negative in what you say other than I don't understand the necessity for low carbon power, Jeremy could do with listening to his brother on that one.

Banks as you know make very large profits.


Where is the money coming from i.e. £250 billion to set the bank up ?
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 5:05pm

The Treasury and Bank of England already exist, there is no £250 billion to set it up, there may be some loan option fees and then some short term intermediate bridging but nothing like that sort figure.

There will be some risk but as is the same as investing, the wider the number of loans the lower the risk.
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 5:42pm

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by casper
Oh come on granny, we can all cherry pick from statements made by both sides, Terry May won't rule out income tax hikes, right after that statement Michael Fallon and Boris are saying there will be no tax rises not for the top 5% ??? who is running the Tory ship the 1922 committee? perhaps they all follow her to see whats she's going to do or say next, the best one is there aren't any money trees, in her response to the nurse last night, perhaps someone should have reminded her that this Island of ours is a great big money tree for the hedge fund merchants and the tax evaders.


Not cherry picking, Casper. Asking questions and you haven't given any answers !


Neither it would seem have the Tories, confused.com, oh! sorry they have, but then they changed their minds, best to leave it as an open manifesto with little detail, then they can alter it later on to suit their agenda.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 8:30pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The Treasury and Bank of England already exist, there is no £250 billion to set it up, there may be some loan option fees and then some short term intermediate bridging but nothing like that sort figure.

There will be some risk but as is the same as investing, the wider the number of loans the lower the risk.


Ok, so is it right that Politicians sit on the board and direct Bank Lending ?
Spain's banking system is almost bankrupt and bankrupting the country.
This is not a new idea. Vince Cable was the first to get this idea approved back in 2010 .
UK Green Investment Bank has fallen flat on it's arse and sold to an Australia Bank ,5/6 yrs later.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 3rd Jun 2017 9:48pm

Its not been said that politicians will sit on the board, if they do they will probably be in the minority.

The German National Investment Bank Works (Kluckboard or whatever its called) as do many other countries'.

It will also be replacing some EU banking schemes that we will be losing on Brexit.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 6th Jun 2017 8:05am



I have to ask about the electoral process within care homes and residential homes .

The residents will obviously get their polling card, but what proof is there that they themselves actually put the X in the box for the postal vote ?

I think that is open to a huge amount of fiddling .
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 6th Jun 2017 11:10am


This has made me laugh. A structure erected on the white cliffs of Dover in Kent. These are the sort of skills they possess in Kent. laugh

Sending a clear message across the channel.

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/rude-theresa-may-structure-erected-126737/
Posted By: venice

Re: Corbyn Rally - 6th Jun 2017 12:44pm

Funny in isolation , but not likely to enhance our negotiations with the EU lol! Believe its been removed now.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 6th Jun 2017 3:59pm

The EU will be looking to divide an conquer the British. Signs of backing brexit will strengthen our negotiating team.

Some EU politicians are telling their people that over 80% of the British are now against brexit.
Posted By: venice

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 1:38am

Yes DD but not signs given in such an arrogant manner- surely that will just get up their noses?
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 9:33am



Looks like Diane Abbott has been ditched and replaced by Lyn Brown, who resigned from the same position last year in June 2016.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2017-40184379/diane-abbott-taking-break-from-campaign
Posted By: cools

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 10:30am

Not before time too, stupid woman!! Well big day tomorrow..
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 11:11am

There are some really nasty (and hopefully illegal) tricks going on.

Labour says that it is going to review council tax .... tories broadcast the following ....

"Under proposals, the new tax would be imposed as an up to 3 per cent levy on the value of land.

A Tory analysis estimates this would result in a yearly tax bill of £3,837 for an average family home in England – a massive 224 per cent increase on the current average council tax bill of £1,185.
"

How can this sort of thing be allowed to happen? The tories have completely made up those figures themselves and word it such that it looks like they are Labour's figures.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 2:06pm


Not really sure what all that means. Looks like a whole load of sh,te .

It would be a Garden Tax on top of the Council Tax. Depending on how much your land is worth, it could quite easily be so much in total.

Full article, and as stated if people are to pay more tax on their gardens, then all it will do is lower property prices. Affecting 10 million people.
It would also hit farmers who are currently exempt from council tax.
Then people would try to move house to a smaller one with smaller gardens, but there wouldn't be any available.
Land grabbing and basically following trends from the Latin American countries that he so much admires.
We aren't in Latin America, thank goodness and don't want to have the same political systems.

The man is painfully mental.

http://www.hortweek.com/labour-mani...raised/parks-and-gardens/article/1434977

So, all these wonderful things he's about to introduce ,should he get elected, is going to take everything from anyone with anything they have worked hard to achieve and donate it all to the financing his unworkable plans for financing everything else plus the benefits claimants of this country, including all foreigners who are entitled to anything they want, like health, education, services and benefits....and they DO claim masses!

Communism, here we come.

Communism = a theory or system of social organization in which all property is owned by the community and each person contributes and receives according to their ability and needs.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 3:04pm

He hasn't said he's going to introduce it.

In reality it does make sense when there is a shortage of building land.
Posted By: dustymclean

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 4:19pm

Well maybe!

Attached picture Land-Value-Tax-Small-Print.png
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 5:48pm

The current system already includes the value of the land, it is based on the rentable value of the property, not just the building. Perhaps he may consider separating the building and the land into separate taxes however I think the conclusion will be that the administration cost will outstrip the viability.

I think there needs to be more bands, lower end three and even four bedroom properties are in the same band as a lower end bedsit which is grossly unfair.

The fairest system so far was the Poll Tax but the media decided otherwise. The cost to the council is roughly proportional to the number of people. Why should two adults pay the same council tax as eight adults, Poll Tax removed this anomaly.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 7:11pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
The current system already includes the value of the land, it is based on the rentable value of the property, not just the building. Perhaps he may consider separating the building and the land into separate taxes however I think the conclusion will be that the administration cost will outstrip the viability.

I think there needs to be more bands, lower end three and even four bedroom properties are in the same band as a lower end bedsit which is grossly unfair.

The fairest system so far was the Poll Tax but the media decided otherwise. The cost to the council is roughly proportional to the number of people. Why should two adults pay the same council tax as eight adults, Poll Tax removed this anomaly.


Surely (the above in red option) the rentable value is attributed to the area also. I can't see a few more Bands being an answer. If some pay less, who is going to pick up the slack ? There can be some very nice and very modern 2 bedroom apartments in the same area as run down, old 3 bedroom semis. Who is to say the 2 bed should pay less, it's not totally based on the number of bedrooms.

I agree, the Poll Tax was a good idea, and before that was introduced, a lone pensioner lived next door to me,(3 bed semi) a family of 5 adults lived opposite, mum dad and three mature family members, all with good jobs such as one as secretary ,another an architect. All 5 worked and paid the same council tax.
The families with older working teens would have been the losers then, maybe it could have been adjusted accordingly to make it fairer. I can't remember too many of the details.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 9:36pm

Ok to give a better example, two identical houses next to each other, one is divided into four flats and the other is wholly occupied. Where the whole one is bottom band rated, they pay the same as each of the flat owners next door who only have a quarter of the property.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 9:59pm


Is that a house divided into 4 separate self contained flats, EACH occupant individually pays the council, the same as the occupants living in an identical 4 bedroomed house ?

That seems grossly unfair. Unless the flats are rented and the landlord takes the council tax , which could then mean he's not applied for planning permission (fiddle).

Yes, understand your point from your previous post. Get a council tax assessor in. It might get reduced.
Posted By: dustymclean

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 10:08pm

On paper you are right. you can.t go lower than the bottom rate.In reality I doubt you will find a bottom rated house that would be big enough to split into four individual flats so rules apply. Flats are separate dwellings. Bedsits that share facilities are not shown on the list as separate dwellings..
Posted By: Dilly

Re: Corbyn Rally - 7th Jun 2017 10:46pm

One thing you can guarantee is come this weekend we will have the same useless #### or a different useless ####
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 12:04am

Originally Posted by Dilly
One thing you can guarantee is come this weekend we will have the same useless #### or a different useless ####


Yes Dilly, and I'll be glad to see the back of it. It feels as if life has been on hold for months.
Think I'll be a green supporter. Can't get into any arguments then. Everyone votes differently in this family, and that must be a good thing, as at least they can each think for themselves.
Posted By: venice

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 10:06am

Originally Posted by Dilly
One thing you can guarantee is come this weekend we will have the same useless #### or a different useless ####


Could be even worse Dilly, Friday might bring a coalition!! Imagine Corbyn and maybe the poisoned dwarf!!
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 10:13am

Originally Posted by Dilly
One thing you can guarantee is come this weekend we will have the same useless #### or a different useless ####


It would appear not many of us are satisfied with the main parties, far right, far left, all of the answers are there between them, it's time for a change to the voting and election system, weed out the deadwood( as my old boss used to say) and the self interest, the nepotism, tax evaders, expense abusers,gravy train riders need not apply
Posted By: dustymclean

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 10:19am

Love the way Corbyn puts on a mini pop gig plus a few celebs, then airbrushes them out to claim big crowds attend to hear him.
I will vote Tory for the first time in my life because there is a job to be done and the present Labour Party although full of "tools" it is not the tool for this job (Brexit). Their is no such thing as a free lunch. The "goody bag"on offer from Labour will shackle the working class to the grindstone for decades, now is not the time.I voted to stay in, but will fight for the best democratic Brexit deal we can get. DieM25 has been launched by Yanis Varoufakis and others it is going to be a long road to sanity so watch your vote, it is PRICELESS.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 10:37am

Originally Posted by dustymclean
Love the way Corbyn puts on a mini pop gig plus a few celebs, then airbrushes them out to claim big crowds attend to hear him.
I will vote Tory for the first time in my life because there is a job to be done and the present Labour Party although full of "tools" it is not the tool for this job (Brexit). Their is no such thing as a free lunch. The "goody bag"on offer from Labour will shackle the working class to the grindstone for decades, now is not the time.I voted to stay in, but will fight for the best democratic Brexit deal we can get. DieM25 has been launched by Yanis Varoufakis and others it is going to be a long road to sanity so watch your vote, it is PRICELESS.


Dusty, please explain. What is DieM25 and how can that affect us as a nation now ?
I don't really understand the 'whole' , and possibly many more don't either.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 10:57am

Originally Posted by granny
Originally Posted by dustymclean
Love the way Corbyn puts on a mini pop gig plus a few celebs, then airbrushes them out to claim big crowds attend to hear him.
I will vote Tory for the first time in my life because there is a job to be done and the present Labour Party although full of "tools" it is not the tool for this job (Brexit). Their is no such thing as a free lunch. The "goody bag"on offer from Labour will shackle the working class to the grindstone for decades, now is not the time.I voted to stay in, but will fight for the best democratic Brexit deal we can get. DieM25 has been launched by Yanis Varoufakis and others it is going to be a long road to sanity so watch your vote, it is PRICELESS.


Dusty, please explain. What is DieM25 and how can that affect us as a nation now ?
I don't really understand the 'whole' , and possibly many more don't either.


Just read he's another Marxist.... I always thought his views were that persuasion, but never thought much about him. How these people move in cunning ways.
These are the people I don't understand. His father was chucked in prison for years when they lived in Egypt (as a lot of Greeks did) due to the fact that he wouldn't denounce communism. Then he was sent from Greece to UK to study, because it was too dangerous for him after the Junta years in Greece. Then he ends up as financial adviser or something in the Greek Government, which has always been a democracy. Democracy was born in Greece. Devious shit in my opinion and I hope he's not engaging with that woman ! You know the one ..
Posted By: dustymclean

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 11:08am

I was hoping people would just Google it and learn more (if interested) than I can say." Democracy in Europe Movement". Yaris makes the point that Europe is run by unelected bureaucrats names names and tells a slightly different time line of events leading up to his resignation from the Greek Government during their crisis.He said when Europe and the Euro go down we will go with it.If you are not far enough away from a sinking ship you get dragged down with it so to speak.I think he is a man of integrity and is sowing the seeds of a Democratic International Party that has one voice.he makes a very credible point that Europe will kill democracy, which Is partly why we have left.
Posted By: dustymclean

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 11:12am

Greece has not always been a democracy.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 11:21am

Originally Posted by dustymclean
Greece has not always been a democracy.

Yes, right Dusty, although it has since 1974, to my knowledge.

Which ever way, he's a Marxist and Marxism is the path between Capitalism and Communism. No wonder Russia are happy we are leaving (if they really are) it just means that Europe have more chance of being incorporated into their web many countries back to where they began.


Posted By: dustymclean

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 11:30am

The biggest loan in History given to a bankrupt country paid for by the tax payers of Europe never to be repaid.Dept on dept and guess where the money went back to?? The price paid was austrity for all and Greek unemployment of 28%.Look it up wise up but please don,t give up.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 12:00pm

Originally Posted by granny
Yes, understand your point from your previous post. Get a council tax assessor in. It might get reduced.


That's the whole point, it can't be reduced below the bottom band and hence why there is a need for more bands.

Originally Posted by dustymclean
On paper you are right. you can.t go lower than the bottom rate.In reality I doubt you will find a bottom rated house that would be big enough to split into four individual flats so rules apply. Flats are separate dwellings. Bedsits that share facilities are not shown on the list as separate dwellings..


They can only be counted as one dwelling where the landlord lives on the premises and there are shared facilities, then they can be guests or lodgers (with virtually no tenant rights). If the landlord does not live on the premises and rents out the bedsits separately even though their are shared facilities, they each pay their own council tax.

Even if its only divided into two flats, it means they are still paying the same as their neighbour for a considerably reduced amenity. There are many examples of "Band A houses" divided into multiple Band A flats on the Wirral.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 8th Jun 2017 11:22pm


Ha ha ! Lady Nugee MP (aka Emily Thornbury), has just been interviewed on BBC..... she was pissed ! Quite amusing laugh
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 6:26am

Ah, great hung parliament
I love to see them squirm
No ones fit to run this mess of a country
May had a zero nerd personality like milliband
I hate them all
Great to see the turmoil
Posted By: cools

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 8:20am

well I don't share you're glee that's it's a hung parliament Sven, disastrous for the country , its like we're in quicksand sinking deeper and deeper into a mess. Watched Nigel Farage talking before looks like he will be stepping back in to try and stop brexit from backsliding. I know he was UKIP but I wished he'd have been leader of Con or Lab because I think he's quite strong and speaks a lot of sense. God knows what's going to happen now.
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 9:12am

A needless mess brought about by a needless election, the Tories were after complete and utter control to do as they pleased, they placed all their bets on Brexit, completely ignoring all the social and domestic issues we have, well they have learned we are not all one country, we are divided, divided by North and South, divided by the have and have not's, the young have woken up and are beginning to see them for what they are, best to get out your brown leather pantalons Terry, the knives will be out.
Posted By: svenlock68

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 12:22pm

" forget you have freedom of choice, you dont
You have owners ,they own you, politcians are put there to make you think you have choice....land owners big corps wealthy business interests run the country, your courts are bought& paid for years ago...why people vote for these rich **** suckers. I dont know."
George carlin talkn to usa a decade ago. Thats us now

Theres no point voting
The countrys bankcrupt 5 times over
Whoever is in power is treading water
Wait for the next crash
Its comin!!
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 12:26pm


Casper, I thought you were happy about a General Election. Maybe my grey matter is getting confused, or maybe you have done a Mrs. May and changed direction ?

She still got 44% of the votes. However, there's no doubt that the majority of losses is attributed to 'Remain' constituencies, and basically a show of hands from them. No doubt backed by 'that woman' Gina Miller.

Can't deny that she and her advisors have made a proper cock up with the campaign, but Corbyn simply promised the earth to everyone in every section of society.

Yesterday, one gentleman from the ex mining community, said he would never vote Tory after what Maggie Thatcher did to the mines , and volunteered the comment that Labour would bankrupt the country. So he decided he would be voting Labour. crazy

Anyway, let's see what happens. Can't say I relish another Election, and doubt many others would either.

Shame Greens only got one seat, but no doubt expected. I can't help jumping for glee over Alex Salmond and Angus Robertson being voted out.

It's all a bit of a 'mess' as you indicate and it will be nice to get on with life now.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 12:51pm

Originally Posted by granny
but Corbyn simply promised the earth to everyone in every section of society.


The current Government had plans to borrow £4bn this year, rising to £7.5bn by 2022. Importantly they have not said where this money will go but they have stated that austerity measures will be increased, so far most of the money has gone to to the top 5% and they have not stated how they will manage this debt.

Labour plans are to borrow £12.5bn by 2022 but have been very clearly where the money is going and how they plan to manage the debt.

The libdems planned to borrow £8.7bn by 2022

The country needs to invest in itself, the tories intend to carry on giving money to those who are already making the most profit and get the rest of the country to pay for it.

There is no logical reason to reduce corporation tax to the levels it is other than to make the rich richer, it is a disaster for this country. France and America have corporation tax nearly double of the UK.
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 2:36pm

The Tories will be reliant on paddy power, now whats that going to cost us? sweeties for NI, perhaps the Tory blue will turn to green or even green and blue check, com'on Boris eat up all your shamrock salad. raftl
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 4:42pm

Well, I just wish that some things could be explained fully by parties that wish to use certain criteria to their advantage.
Austerity measures have been imposed on all 27 member states in Europe . Greece are looking at even more this year directed by the IMF.

Just maybe, we or any other member state cannot wriggle our way out so easily, and if we have 'brexited' after 2020 then maybe we will be more in control of our own administration and finances and the austerity will be a problem gone. I don't know, but all the EU countries that are having tough times, result in all the other member states contributing to their problems. The money paid into the pot from us and others is simply paying off the interest of all other bail outs.
No one can talk about all that I suppose, but I do wish we were better informed instead of everything being on the surface without any depth of discussion.

Maybe they think we are too dim to understand all the workings, which most of us probably are, but it would be nice for someone to try. We never hear anything about the dictats of Europe and their ongoing changes etc. but that is probably down to signing a confidentiality agreement and no one can breach the rules.

Once out, we could very well be in a far better uncontrolled position, in all areas.

How many times have I remarked about the agenda of the EU and the 2020 strategy, where the prison service, the education, the health, the forces, and so many more things were to be directed from Europe, if that was to have happened we would have to have been making preparations for it. Now we will be able to pull back fro that agenda, but as we are still a member, politicians are still unable to talk about it.

Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 5:33pm

Yes, you notice there was a blackout on news from Greece once the election was declared in fact there was very little mention of austerity from the tories or media despite that the tories have already quietly declared some new measures.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 9th Jun 2017 10:11pm

The disastrous effects of the EU drive to cut budgets and slash public spending are detailed in a 357-page World Social Protection report by the UN agency, the International Labour Organisation

+

EU policies have given rise to persistent unemployment, lower wages and higher taxes, boosting poverty and social exclusion rates, which now affects some 123 million people or 24 per cent of the EU population.

TUA EU: Trade Unionists Against the EU

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/eu-austerity-measures-driving-millions-into-poverty/
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd Aug 2018 8:03am

Going back a bit to socialism, Portugal is doing very well out of socialism and the ditching of austerity.
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd Aug 2018 9:27am

I see the Tory ideal of privatisation is doing well and prospering, aided by tax funded bailouts from the taxpayer, you couldn't make it up.
Posted By: Gibbo

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd Aug 2018 9:40am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Going back a bit to socialism, Portugal is doing very well out of socialism and the ditching of austerity.


Hmm, months of strikes from teachers demanding nine years of frozen salary incremements.

The Lisbon business school saying:

Quote
His formula is based on an “illusion” of relieving austerity that is unsustainable and damaging to the long-term health of the economy.

“The idea that austerity has been reversed is a myth,” said Pedro Santa-Clara, professor of finance at Lisbon’s Nova School of Business and Economics.

“In fact, increased current spending has been more than offset by drastic cuts in public investment, higher taxation and lower social transfers.”


Others saying things like:

Quote
the fine line the government has tried to follow “is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain as the impact on public services becomes more tangible and growth shows signs of slowing”.


Quote
More important drivers, economists say, include the impact of international growth on exports, a tourism boom and a drop in interest rates that has sharply reduced the cost of servicing Portugal’s huge public debt.


Quote
Mr Costa’s critics point to failing state services, including overstretched hospitals and a rundown railway network, as evidence that the government has cut back on public investment to offset its largesse towards public sector workers. Income tax cuts have been counterbalanced by higher indirect taxes, they add.



Yeah, doing very well indeed......
Posted By: casper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd Aug 2018 1:01pm

[q



Quote
Mr Costa’s critics point to failing state services, including overstretched hospitals and a rundown railway network, as evidence that the government has cut back on public investment to offset its largesse towards public sector workers. Income tax cuts have been counterbalanced by higher indirect taxes, they add.



Yeah, doing very well indeed......[/quote]

Almost sounds like here only the largesse here go's into the pockets of the wealthy.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd Aug 2018 5:56pm

Give it time, Portugal was on the next to go bankrupt a few years ago, the turnaround is amazing. It was a liberal-conservative party that brought it to its knees. The economy has risen to the same point it was 12 years ago, its still a long way behind.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd Aug 2018 8:22pm


Population Portugal : 10.5 million, and unemployment 8%..

No comparison to the UK . Population 65.5 million and unemployment 4.1 %
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 22nd Aug 2018 9:24pm

Our unemployment figures are well fiddled, anyone that works even 1 hour a week is called employed.

The size of our workforce has just shrunk because sixteen to eighteen year olds are not allowed to be unemployed, many are forced into academic training whether they are capable of coping with academic subjects or not.

Likewise if you are unemployed you are cajoled into going on training or sickness which reduces the unemployment figures.

People that are unemployed but don't register for unemployment do not appear in the unemployment statistics (you'd be surprised how many people come in this category).

Carers don't appear in the unemployment statistics despite many being unemployed and wanting a job (caring isn't employment).

The Government aren't interested in unemployed or even employed people, its all about making their version of statistics look good.
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 23rd Aug 2018 10:07pm


What percentage unemployment do you consider to be correct ?


How about imagining if Theresa May suddenly announced that her government was going to devalue the pound by 96 per cent; increase the minimum wage by 6,000 per cent; pay the wage increases for millions of businesses for three months; tie the pound to a mythical cryptocurrency; prepared for petrol rationing; and impose a 0.7 per cent tax on big financial transactions. It would be seen either as an act of lunacy, of a collapsing country — or both.

Would it be an act of lunacy ? .
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 24th Aug 2018 12:01am

For it to be confirmed as an act of lunacy you only had to go as far as "if Theresa May".
Posted By: granny

Re: Corbyn Rally - 24th Aug 2018 5:15am

Originally Posted by granny


How about imagining if Theresa May suddenly announced that her government was going to devalue the pound by 96 per cent; increase the minimum wage by 6,000 per cent; pay the wage increases for millions of businesses for three months; tie the pound to a mythical cryptocurrency; prepared for petrol rationing; and impose a 0.7 per cent tax on big financial transactions. It would be seen either as an act of lunacy, of a collapsing country — or both.

Would it be an act of lunacy ? .


For the long-suffering people of Venezuela, it’s just the latest stage of their country’s grand socialist experiment.


For years, Venezuela has been one giant economic laboratory, its 32 million citizens reduced to guinea pigs. The Maduro regime has been condemned worldwide (except by Jeremy Corbyn, who rang Maduro to congratulate him on his election victory and refuses to denounce him). Maduro’s latest experiment is telling, and may well lead to greater economic catastrophe and even massive famine................


Socialist principles are at stake: if the economy will not behave, issue edicts. If money is short, then borrow — or print — more of it. If prices are rising, enforce price freezes. Venezuela is imposing a huge version of ideas that Corbyn has been proposing in miniature. The world can now see the results..........

Diane Abbott was right to say that ‘the importance of Venezuela is it shows another way is possible’. It shows that, even when the free enterprise system is spreading worldwide, it is still possible for political ideologues to bring rich countries to their knees...............

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/08...ment-has-brought-a-country-to-its-knees/


Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: Corbyn Rally - 24th Aug 2018 2:06pm

Venezuela has fallen back into becoming a dictatorship. Cherry picking some socialist policies can't work, it has to be democratic socialism, capitalism and socialism aren't good bedfellows.

It has been continuously undermined by the USA and other countries because of some their left-wing policies, how on earth can the USA see a country like Venezuela as a threat?

It has also suffered the problems associated with mass immigration and multiculturalism and because changes happened far too fast.
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