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Posted By: DA_DIBZ Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 29th Jan 2014 9:06pm
Paddy Shennan spends some time in Tranmere, which has the lowest life expectancy rates in UK

Welcome to Tranmere – where many children are expected to fight a losing battle from the moment they are born.

Welcome to Tranmere – where many children are born into deprivation and disadvantage.

Welcome to Tranmere – where you will struggle to find a silver spoon.

Click link for rest of the report.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/evening-read-tranmere-deprived-places-6645586
Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop
I tend to agree with that.
I wonder what the figures would have been before we lost all the thousands of jobs

A lot of industry that employed thousands of local folks that were fairly local to Tranmere and Birkenhead have disappeared
To name some I can think of (please add if anyone remembers more)

Cammell Lairds
British Leather
Champion Sparks
Cadburys
Squibbs
The Docks
Bidston Steel
Posted By: jefff3 Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 29th Jan 2014 11:26pm
If ya move smack eds to tranmere from all over birkenhead ya goin to get a lot of crime.it no rocket science,the old chester road is like night of the living dead
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 30th Jan 2014 11:22am
Quote
Labour Cllr Brian Kenny, one of the councillors who represents Birkenhead and Tranmere ward, believes the nation needs to address the issue as a matter of urgency. He told me: “It cannot be right that people born on the east side of Wirral – in Birkenhead and Tranmere – are likely to die many years earlier, between 11 and 13, than people born on the west side, in somewhere like West Kirby. That is unacceptable and something is obviously drastically wrong.


He obviously didn't see that midwife programme that was on BBC2 last year. They focused on two expectant mums in one episode - on in West Kirby, the other in Birkenhead.

The Birkenhead one could have been straight out of "Benefits Street", they had no cooker, just went out and got takeaways every night because they didn't want to or know how to cook.

The midwife suggested cookery lessons, paid by the taxpayer of course.

What the hell is wrong with going down to the library, picking up a Delia Smith or Jamie Oliver cookbook and learning?

I wish I could afford takeaways every night, and I work!

At some point the tradition of handing down skills from parent to child has broken, and looks like it will continue.

Here's the programme:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01m2dlf
Posted By: stu6278 Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 30th Jan 2014 2:22pm
Some parts of the borough (Tranmere in particular) have higher than average rates for smoking, binge drinking etc. as well as lower immunisation rates amongst children. Personal choices such as these surely must account for some of the gap in life expectancy.

The comparison with North Korea was particularly shocking, and shameful IMO.
Posted By: TheDr Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 30th Jan 2014 4:03pm
I remember (MANY) years ago, one of my teachers giving a lesson where he intended to prove that all drivers should have been drinking before being allowed behind the wheel.
He showed that drink drivers tend to be VERY aware of what's going on around them (always on the lookout for the police), drove slower (sticking to limits so as not to draw attention of police) and statistics prove that in ONLY 2 out of every 10 accidents were the drivers drunk, meaning that 8 out of every 10 were stone cold sober, hence drunk drivers are better drivers.

Of course it's completely ridiculous, but incredibly people began to agree (he had a lot of lessons like this) but it shows that you need the COMPLETE data for the statistics to make any sense.

Let's say that the life expectancy is 70, but Tranmere side is only getting 60, what is the difference. Well let's look at the people ON the West Kirby side, a HUGE proliferation of retirement homes, care homes and retired folk, hence they have already reached, or are around the average expectancy (and we're talking averages here). On the Tranmere side you have a lot more younger people, (including the junkies, zombies etc), so you only need a few to die young to make a huge difference to the expectancy curve.

If you have 100 people all aged between 55 and 80, if the age spread is constant (4 people of each age) then even if the entire fifth of the younger population dies (the 20 people between 55 and 60), you are not shifting the curve a great deal as you still have 2 fifths ABOVE the expectancy rate to even out the dip.

However, if you have the same 100 people aged between 15 and 80 (.65 of a person at each age, I know I know but it makes the maths easier) then if you lose the entire fifth of the younger population (which this time is 13 people) you only have 6.5 people over the age of 70 to even it out, it doesn't, so the slew brings the number down.

Above this the maths gets complex, I get boring and people stop reading, but you get the general idea, you need ALL the data, not just the bits that fit what you are trying to prove.
Originally Posted by derekdwc
Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop
I tend to agree with that.


I cannot see any correlation whatsoever. There is never any excuse for becoming a criminal rather than making an effort to find work! Crime may pay in the short term given the weak and soppy judges and magistrates who hand out thumps with kid gloves and criminals end up with community service which they just fail to turn up for. However, continuing along that road will end up with a long term job, the downside is that it will be in a big house where you don't get to go home at night (You do get 4 meals a day, fags and sky TV but no dog!!!to look after)you don't get to see your family, friends or drug dealers for many many years.

As for the silver spoons, does anybody know where to get them from?



Originally Posted by TheDr

Let's say that the life expectancy is 70, but Tranmere side is only getting 60, what is the difference. Well let's look at the people ON the West Kirby side, a HUGE proliferation of retirement homes, care homes and retired folk, hence they have already reached, or are around the average expectancy (and we're talking averages here)


The answer is simple. Work hard at school to learn everything on offer(Truancy means failure generally) pass all your exams and either go to Uni, get an apprenticeship or get the best job available to you given educational attainments. Turn up every day looking smart and ready for the day's work. Then work hard so that eventually you get promoted. Apothecate the money necessary to ensure a decent pension when you retire.

Now there is no difference as you will be able to afford to live in a better area and you can retire to one of the better retirement homes in West Kirby.




Planet earth calling!
A man was on radio Merseyside today he has eighteen young electricians looking for work experience. (No Takers) Another this week took note that there is a thousand plus jobs on Wirral.He said he could not believe how many Avon reps are wanted zero hour contracts and put your money up first jobs, are out there.
A lot of todays youth would love to work, the jobs are just not there.We the older generation should be ashamed of our legacy, not crowing about how well we have done out of making this mess.
Originally Posted by nem12esis

Apothecate the money


Apothecate!! Where the hell do you get THAT word from? It sounds as if a pharmacist is involved.
Oh and referring back to your previous post, do you really believe there are no drug dealers in prisons?
Posted By: jefff3 Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 30th Jan 2014 9:38pm
Apothecate is a made up word according to oxford dictionary.a man who pretends to be clever is afool
I suspect he meant hypothecate.
Posted By: nem12esis Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 31st Jan 2014 10:24am
Originally Posted by chriskay
I suspect he meant hypothecate.


You are dead right, a senior moment for which I apologise.
Posted By: nem12esis Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 31st Jan 2014 10:28am
Originally Posted by dustymclean
Planet earth calling!
A man was on radio Merseyside today he has eighteen young electricians looking for work experience. (No Takers) Another this week took note that there is a thousand plus jobs on Wirral.He said he could not believe how many Avon reps are wanted zero hour contracts and put your money up first jobs, are out there.
A lot of todays youth would love to work, the jobs are just not there.We the older generation should be ashamed of our legacy, not crowing about how well we have done out of making this mess.


Another answer, if you are good, ie followed my guidelines about learning and attending school etc. Start your own business.
Why would I want to start a business? I am a tax paying OAP, Who thinks the youth of today are getting a raw deal.
Your guide lines about learning and attending school, I would and did endorse with my own children.Starting your own business is as bleak as finding an employer,ask the thousands who are going bust each day.A question for you, Where did you get the money you risked starting up your own business.Keep your answer polite and within the Wiki Rules please.
Posted By: kamikazi Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 31st Jan 2014 11:11am
Sad that the lack of opportunity is translated into a statistical comparison with a dictatorship country. But hey its the Echo, complete with Editor Ali (Cannabis Farm) Macray, surprised there is only one reference to Cannabis Farms in the story.

Fact is many areas of Merseyside suffer from a lack of opportunity, in many cases these are historical issues that have never been dealt with by our chosen leaders.

Fact is there are few proper jobs, new businesses struggle to grow, the Mersey divide of business support services and how larger contracts are commissioned and awarded on each side of the river means that there can be a postcode benefit to where you run your business from.

If we grow our economies then Wirral people have a bright future ahead.

We need better business support and representation (New Wirral Chamber in the offing already)

We need better visibility in what we offer to the world and each other (down to one local free paper and a few small local media offers) We rely on Liverpool and Wales to represent us....not good.

We need to remove the costly wirral tax (tunnels)

We should offer free parking and only fine bad parking at our shopping centres.

We should all take responsibility for improvement, this forum is a great example of exactly that. (Cheers again Mark)

Turning round our fortunes will translate into hopes, aspirations and plans, eventually this will result in lower crime and increased health.

Or we could just wait for the next damning piece of research to be published that will feed our already jaded view of the peninsula.

The only winner with that story was Trinity Mirror, dont see them starting a campaign on our behalf anytime soon

K


Originally Posted by dustymclean
Why would I want to start a business? I am a tax paying OAP, Who thinks the youth of today are getting a raw deal.
Your guide lines about learning and attending school, I would and did endorse with my own children.Starting your own business is as bleak as finding an employer,ask the thousands who are going bust each day.A question for you, Where did you get the money you risked starting up your own business.Keep your answer polite and within the Wiki Rules please.


From redundancy pay. Having said that, the money needed was a bank stipulation and in fact I needed nothing as my business was a consultancy. the initial deposit grew so that what I was asked to pay in by the bank seemed to be just a bank scam to make you borrow money. I paid it back after month 1. Incidentally to say self employment is bleak, could put many off this option, but I thoroughly recommend it.

When I said 'start a business' naturally I wasn't referring to you in particular but you said there were no jobs about, when there clearly are. Becoming an employee is not the only option in town as you can now see.

I too am a tax paying OAP or senior citizen as we are now called, maybe even a silver surfer, whatever the name or category you are in is irrelevant. If you cannot find a job then you must be looking for one by definition.

Why did you stipulate the following? "Keep your answer polite and within the Wiki Rules please." I just do not see the need for any stipulation whatsoever.
It was a request, stipulate is to strong a word.I wish to be and stay friendly. I look forward to future posts, feel free to respond in a polite and friendly manner.
Originally Posted by dustymclean
It was a request, stipulate is to strong a word.I wish to be and stay friendly. I look forward to future posts, feel free to respond in a polite and friendly manner.


I hope I always do. I just wondered why you felt you had to make such an unnecessary request.
Posted By: Alonso Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 31st Jan 2014 6:04pm
Try looking for a birthday banner for a 90 year old on the Wirral, and you will get one easily in West Kirby. That speaks for itself.
Posted By: Alonso Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 31st Jan 2014 6:35pm
Originally Posted by nem12esis
Originally Posted by TheDr

Let's say that the life expectancy is 70, but Tranmere side is only getting 60, what is the difference. Well let's look at the people ON the West Kirby side, a HUGE proliferation of retirement homes, care homes and retired folk, hence they have already reached, or are around the average expectancy (and we're talking averages here)


The answer is simple. Work hard at school to learn everything on offer(Truancy means failure generally) pass all your exams and either go to Uni, get an apprenticeship or get the best job available to you given educational attainments. Turn up every day looking smart and ready for the day's work. Then work hard so that eventually you get promoted. Apothecate the money necessary to ensure a decent pension when you retire.

Now there is no difference as you will be able to afford to live in a better area and you can retire to one of the better retirement homes in West Kirby.




Agree with you fully, but most of the people who fail to achieve in this life fail because they come from a long line of failures. It's getting those people to break the mould. Unfortunately forty years of living off benefits and expecting the state to provide free everything has trapped those generations of people, deliberately I would suggest into remaining in their environments, where they are comfortable and close to their family and friends who are mostly in the same situation. Betting shop chains and cheap booze are there for their recreation, which happen to be available for them every day of the week nowadays.
Many families escaped from the River Streets in the North End of the town only to find themselves living in areas of the town where they were no better off. The labouring classes have no manual work left for them in Birkenhead, and many similar towns like it. What labouring work there is ,is taken up by immigrants. Our own people won't do the jobs that immigrants will. And it's not going to change this side of hell freezing over. This situation will continue long after Frank Field and his kind depart this mortal coil. Nobody has the political will to change things. So why should the labouring classes? It's a mess and an unsolvable one at that.
Yeah! Lets give up,

lets do it together.

Dear David Cameron,

We the Wirral realise that there is no point in trying to create a better life, please accept this letter as confirmation of our surrender. Can you send some mittens, slippers and a 180,000 balaclavas embroidered with "Quitters" on the back.

Many Thanks

The Wirral





Posted By: Alonso Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 31st Jan 2014 8:50pm
Originally Posted by kamikazi
Yeah! Lets give up,

lets do it together.

Dear David Cameron,

We the Wirral realise that there is no point in trying to create a better life, please accept this letter as confirmation of our surrender. Can you send some mittens, slippers and a 180,000 balaclavas embroidered with "Quitters" on the back.

Many Thanks

The Wirral





You might not have given up hope, but the people from the generations I speak of don't accord with your ideas on development. They only want what's rightfully theirs -free everything. Don't offer them useful work...because it doesn't pay enough. This isn't just confined to Merseyside it's in every county, town and city in the land; Especially London and the Midlands. It's only welfare that's sustaining millions. We live in an entirely different age to the one in which the men and women of Jarrow marched on London for work. Who marches on London today for work? The brutal fact is, governments both Labour and Tory have been complicit in letting this state of affairs come about for years. Perhaps if benefits were scrapped we would all be marching to London for work, but as long as they keep on shelling out free everything to people, there will always be towns with reputations like Tranmere.
It seems to me that the only protesting that's being done is the protest at the governments attempt to reduce the welfare bill. Nobody's protesting for a plethora of entrepreneurs to come into their neighbourhood to create work.
Posted By: mikeeb Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 31st Jan 2014 10:47pm
This has become a very interesting thread with very interesting views
We must not start thinking that we are at the bottom of a heap
I have never looked at the wirral with some sort of pride until I joined this forum, which is not very long (thank you wiki)
When we all realise the problems that the wirral/tranmere/birkenhead/wallasey/moreton/woodchurch, (we could just keep adding your own locale) they are happening all over britain.
Posted By: _Ste_ Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 1st Feb 2014 12:06am
I'm more interested in the title to be honest.

You either give us a job (which you won't for obvious reasons) or we will carry on stealing.

Love a potential employer to see that title.

Originally Posted by Alonso
Try looking for a birthday banner for a 90 year old on the Wirral, and you will get one easily in West Kirby. That speaks for itself.


They are also available in Tranmere, that also speaks for itself.
Posted By: Alonso Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 1st Feb 2014 11:05am
Originally Posted by nem12esis
Originally Posted by Alonso
Try looking for a birthday banner for a 90 year old on the Wirral, and you will get one easily in West Kirby. That speaks for itself.


They are also available in Tranmere, that also speaks for itself.
I tried all over to get one for my mother four years ago. The only shop where they had them was West Kirby. So things must be looking up for the good people of Tranmere. grin grin wink
[/quote] What labouring work there is ,is taken up by immigrants. Our own people won't do the jobs that immigrants will. [/quote]

Can you give me some examples on Wirral of jobs paying minimum wage 40 hours that immigrants do that Our own people won't do.
I was told the other day of someone on a zero hour contract who had to get up at 4am to get to work at 6am only to be told on arrival 'we don't need you today'(are we going back to the 'good old days' of the lots of dockers turning up hoping to be one of the lucky ones selected for a day/days work)
Granted he also had some good weeks with 12 hours shifts in.

Is he one of the hard working people the gov say they are helping.
I'd hate to live like that - not knowing if I'd be earning a wage from one day to the next
(now awaiting remarks that he should put money aside from good week to cover bad weeks)

Posted By: granny Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 1st Feb 2014 11:54am
Originally Posted by derekdwc
Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop
I tend to agree with that.
I wonder what the figures would have been before we lost all the thousands of jobs

A lot of industry that employed thousands of local folks that were fairly local to Tranmere and Birkenhead have disappeared
To name some I can think of (please add if anyone remembers more)

Cammell Lairds
British Leather
Champion Sparks
Cadburys
Squibbs
The Docks
Bidston Steel
Prices Candle Factory
Shipping
Neston Colliery


The last two are not companies as you see, but they provided employment in capacity, particularly the shipping. Once the Merseyside ports started to decline, as shipping companies found cheaper ports to dock,that was the start of beginning of the end in this area.
We used to have the constant emigrant ships to Australia, Canada, America and other places(of course some might not know about them or have forgotten ). That would have involved so much employment, baggage handling porters, officials, crews, supplies for the vessels, the docks both sides of the Mersey where a bustling environment.
Population is probably now greater than ever and no major player in the 'once' industrial North and far too many factors involved to simply blame it on a couple.
It's a changing world we live in, there is far more competition out there, and we have to change with it if we wish to survive. Nothing will ever land on our laps unless of course you know someone who is into nepotism, that always helps !
I believe attitude of mind needs to change, and when people need work they must be prepared to move areas. We have all done it and it pays off if it breaks the cycle. The unfortunate angle is that for decades now, if anyone looking for a job elsewhere said they came from Liverpool, there was an automatic blacklist and thanks to some, it would appear that the same irretrievable message is being made about certain areas of Wirral too. Well done!

Probably the greatest difficulty in moving area, is finding accommodation. People used to rent rooms out and provide meals, they called it 'lodgings' That in itself was a business and brought money in for families and some people still do in different areas, although now everyone seems to expect either a flat or 5* ensuite hotel with all expenses paid. Where did that expectation come from ?
Posted By: granny Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 1st Feb 2014 12:48pm
Originally Posted by granny
[quote=derekdwc]Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop
I tend to agree with that.
I wonder what the figures would have been before we lost all the thousands of jobs

A lot of industry that employed thousands of local folks that were fairly local to Tranmere and Birkenhead have disappeared
To name some I can think of (please add if anyone remembers more)

Cammell Lairds
British Leather
Champion Sparks
Cadburys
Squibbs
The Docks
Bidston Steel
Prices Candle Factory
Shipping
Neston Colliery
Spillers
Birkenhead Brewery


Thanks for the add-ons granny

Just come across this (reading all the pdf which will doubtless upset some of our taxpayers)
Wirral on pages 15 and 17 doubt if much change from 2012

click

Posted By: granny Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 1st Feb 2014 1:21pm
Interesting Derek.

What I feel is very worrying, is the way in which everything seems stagnant whilst waiting for this Peel Holdings enterprise to kick off. Nobody is doing anything but bleating about how hard up they are. What's happened to the Chamber of Commerce and Industry ? What do Wirral Waters do, which was set up over a decade ago ?
A more major worry is, once something does start e.g. Peels development, I doubt that anyone from this area will have any skills or experience for jobs on offer in the construction areas needed. The workforce will be brought in from elsewhere and maybe from China ! Our local people will be the janitors , so to speak.
After some thought
What crimes are we talking about mostly?
Domestic abuse?
Rape?
Drugs the selling and partaking of?
Burglary?
Robbery with or without violence?
Vehicles (evasion of road tax and insurance)
Benefit fraud?
Tax evasion?
Shop lifting?
Wirral on the whole seems to be below a lot of places as regards crimes.
Are most crimes committed in Birkenhead, Wallasey and Tranmere then.
Could someone point me to the site where if you put in your postcode it gives you a map with update of crimes marked on it in your immediate locality as I can't find it.

A postcode for Tranmere would be helpful - not sure if just the 1st part (eg ch41 for Birkenhead) would do it for Birkenhead
Originally Posted by derekdwc
Thanks for the add-ons granny

Just come across this (reading all the pdf which will doubtless upset some of our taxpayers)
Wirral on pages 15 and 17 doubt if much change from 2012

click


Your comment seems to suggest that taxpayers here are in the minority. If that is the case we appear to need a degree of re-balancing in the forum
Derek i live in Tranmere ,post code is CH42....
Holborn Hill was CH41
Posted By: gopher Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 1st Feb 2014 6:48pm
CH41 9AG
Posted By: mikeeb Re: Give us jobs and crime in Tranmere will drop - 1st Feb 2014 7:12pm
wirral is not the only place that feels this way
it happens everywhere so we are not the only ones feeling bereaved
Found crime site for map.
Search (button top right) by area (eg Tranmere) or postcode or by A-Z street
click

nem12esis are you dogging my posts to throw in your threepennysworth of negativity Devil's Advocate.

sorry didn't know how to stress 'some'
(pronounced stressing ‘some’) at least a small amount or number of people or things.
"surely some have noticed"

I would think the majority of folks on wikiwirral are taxpayers


Originally Posted by derekdwc
Found crime site for map.
Search (button top right) by area (eg Tranmere) or postcode or by A-Z street
click

nem12esis are you dogging my posts to throw in your threepennysworth of negativity Devil's Advocate.

sorry didn't know how to stress 'some'
(pronounced stressing ‘some’) at least a small amount or number of people or things.
"surely some have noticed"

I would think the majority of folks on wikiwirral are taxpayers


Am I hell dogging your posts, do not flatter yourself, I post where I feel that I want to comment.
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