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Posted By: granny Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 11:37am
What's happening with 'fracking' on Wirral' , do we know?

Cllr Davies was opposed to this, despite the fact that IGas now have a license to explore. Where will the 'Well' be ? Will Wirral Council have huge rewards for being part of it, from the Tory Government. Oh dear me !


http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk...t-set-offer-financial-incentives-5397634



Council leader Cllr Phil Davies spoke of his concerns over the controversial process following an announcement by IGas earlier this month. (being Extract taken from: June 2013)

"The firm revealed it may have up to 172.3 trillion cubic feet of gas in the 300-square mile area in Cheshire it holds licences over. It follows a study of geological data from the firm’s well site in Ince Marshes, near Ellesmere Port. IGas holds licences that run across most of West Wirral as well as stretches of Cheshire and Runcorn. The company intends to begin hydraulic fracturing in the North West to extract the gas – by drilling into the ground and fracturing the shale by pumping in high-pressure liquid – by the end of the year, but has yet to reveal where.

Before that can take place though, planning permission needs to be secured from local authorities. In July 2011, Wirral council passed a resolution registering its opposition to fracking, a stance Cllr Davies said hasn’t changed since then.

He said: “Most shale gas in Wirral would be under the West Wirral part of the peninsula. The thought of companies digging up huge tracts of our green areas fills me with dread. I would be completely opposed to that.”

Maps: http://frack-off.org.uk/local-group/cheshire-and-wirral-action-on-fracking/

......and why are we not being updated? Not everybody has a computer to access information. Would like to know where they are likely to drill. One wonders what the site at Thingwall Corner really is? Did we ever truly find out about that?
Posted By: casper Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 12:05pm
The French wont allow it in their backyard granny, so two French companies are applying for licenses here, not on Wirral I hasten to add, our country is being sold from underneath us, I see in the latest bout of privatisation the Royal Mail are putting their prices up already, now there is a surprise, I wonder what happens when we've nothing left to sell?
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 12:13pm
News today:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25705550

Just another reason for house insurance premiums to increase. Possibly know as 'FFF Premium Insurance'. F...ing floods and fracking! Not likely to be increasing Cameron's FFF costs.
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 12:35pm
Originally Posted by casper
The French wont allow it in their backyard granny, so two French companies are applying for licenses here, not on Wirral I hasten to add, our country is being sold from underneath us, I see in the latest bout of privatisation the Royal Mail are putting their prices up already, now there is a surprise, I wonder what happens when we've nothing left to sell?


The majority Share Holder will own us Casper!

The French as we know, hold the major industry for energy. Nuclear etc. Happy to spread their muck on everyone elses territory, worldwide.
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 1:27pm
Our water bills may go up ( fracking uses huge amounts of water that must be transported to the fracking site, at significant environmental cost) but I suspect our gas or electricity bills won't go down (I hate to see the words should, could and may used by politicians and huge industries - it usually means won't and we are covering ourselves)



The industry suggests fracking of shale gas could contribute significantly to the UK's future energy needs. A report by the Energy and Climate Change Committee in April said shale gas in the UK may help to secure energy supplies, but may not bring down gas prices.




Will we eventually start getting huge sinkholes similar to ones caused by mining.

When all is said and done it's all about profit to be made by someone
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 2:42pm
You might find it interesting to know that in some Lancashire sites, fracking has been going on since 1993:

http://www.cuadrillaresources.com/our-sites/elswick/

No earthquakes, no exploding water from taps, no death and destruction. Don't you love our one sided media!

Quote
“Most shale gas in Wirral would be under the West Wirral part of the peninsula. The thought of companies digging up huge tracts of our green areas fills me with dread. I would be completely opposed to that.”


I wonder if he's actually been to a fracking site to see how it looks? Its only an hour or so away.

The one in my link is also a sandstone frack site and this bit says it best "with many people in the area unaware of its existence.".

I bet if the protesters with their half truths and unwillingness to look at the project objectively would soon be on that site if they knew about it!

Incidentally, where are the protesters for these recent earthquakes and sink holes caused by mining and not fracking?

New Ollerton hit by 20 small earthquakes in four weeks
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-25679241

Peak District sinkhole appears in Foolow, Derbyshire

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-25559718
Posted By: davew3 Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 2:51pm
About time they started fracking, the country needs a wake up call even if it's just earthquakes, from memory aren't the power companies owned by the French left wing government, don't know why our water bills will go up as this area still gets it's water from Wales and they still use settling tanks even if the water is pumped from local wells, believe the BBC and see pigs fly..
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 5:34pm
Originally Posted by davew3
About time they started fracking, the country needs a wake up call even if it's just earthquakes, from memory aren't the power companies owned by the French left wing government, don't know why our water bills will go up as this area still gets it's water from Wales and they still use settling tanks even if the water is pumped from local wells, believe the BBC and see pigs fly..


Maybe they will go up even more. Once one company falls to foreign ownership, the roller coaster has begun.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/...onfirms-5bn-bid-overseas-consortium.html
Plus, I don't believe any British Government has the power to stop these giants, they are far too powerful and are the big fat controllers. which we all know. So why the sentiment to them.
Yes, we need energy, yes we need new energy but let us not forget the disasters which have happened and we could reverse the testimonies of the reports on sink holes and earthquakes being due to mining, and say we don't believe it.
Nothing can take away Chernoble, Fukushima, Piper Alpha, Three mile Island, and ironically, France has a pretty long list of
Nuclear power accidents in France listed in link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accidents_by_country




Taking this into account nothing is safe, and until we know that fracking is safe then we should not be kept in the dark and both sides of the coin should be explained, so that people fully understand. Also companies should have to take their responsibilities for any mis-adventures caused. e.g the Seascale episode of leukaemia in children, being caused by radiation leakage. One of those things that were denied and shoved under the carpet for years and years. Many of you won't remember these incidents as you probably weren't born then.

I hope there isn't any fracking in Neston/Burton area, being based on a coalmine, and houses on top of, could be a disaster waiting to happen.





Posted By: casper Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 6:58pm
My sentiments exactly granny, its too late when they have sucked the life out of the place and left their mess to be cleared up by someone else, whilst they slope off back to France, There is no fear of any drilling or disruption being anywhere near the homes of those down sarf that allegedly represent us, all Cameron can see is pound signs, there will be no benefits for the vast majority of people in this country, remember the cheap north sea gas fiasco cheap everlasting energy liar
Posted By: Anonymous Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 7:46pm
Originally Posted by casper
My sentiments exactly granny, its too late when they have sucked the life out of the place and left their mess to be cleared up by someone else, whilst they slope off back to France, There is no fear of any drilling or disruption being anywhere near the homes of those down sarf that allegedly represent us, all Cameron can see is pound signs, there will be no benefits for the vast majority of people in this country, remember the cheap north sea gas fiasco cheap everlasting energy liar


Even before that, when Calder Hall/Windscale/Sellafield (Name change after every "incident") nuclear station came on line..... "Electricity will be so cheap as not to be worth metering". Oh really? I'm either still wet behind the ears, or I came in on the last Banana boat !
Posted By: jimbob Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 9:35pm
how long before you all bring back the man with the red flag walking in front of motor cars.
Posted By: CVCVCV Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 9:46pm
Oh - so if Cllr. Davies is opposed to it, then I suppose that's it then, no further discussion needed.
Posted By: RUDEBOX Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 10:33pm
Bribery! Pure and simple

Call Me Dave thinks we are as thick and out of touch as he is
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Jan 2014 11:15pm
Is there any guarantee that the gas will be used only in the UK or could it be exported over to Europe by the fracking companies if there is a demand for it there.
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 10:06am
Cost of bills being reduced:

according to a Quadrillo big boy on Channel 4 News last night, the answer to that is 'no'.
I think his words were, there is a very slight possibility, but highly unlikely.

Has anyone said the number years we would benefit from it? There was mention of twenty years, which is no time at all.

Don't know about export yet do we? wink
Posted By: casper Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 10:21am
Just had a quick thought to dispel any doubt, if Cameron approves it then it must be dodgy, no doubt one of his cohorts goes riding, shooting plays golf has share's etc with some TOTAL exec's, as to the French how many times have they dumped on us?
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 10:28am
Originally Posted by casper
My sentiments exactly granny, its too late when they have sucked the life out of the place and left their mess to be cleared up by someone else, whilst they slope off back to France, There is no fear of any drilling or disruption being anywhere near the homes of those down sarf that allegedly represent us, all Cameron can see is pound signs, there will be no benefits for the vast majority of people in this country, remember the cheap north sea gas fiasco cheap everlasting energy liar


Did you actually read my post and links about the sandstone fracking site that's been operating since 1993 in Lancashire with no issues, or are you so full of hate, bias and xenophobia that you couldn't?
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 10:31am
Originally Posted by granny
Taking this into account nothing is safe, and until we know that fracking is safe


A sandstone fracking site that has been operating since 1993 - twenty one years - with no news reports of explosions, deaths, poisoned water, I think that classes as being safe.

Here's the link again in case you missed it:

http://www.cuadrillaresources.com/our-sites/elswick/

The website "Natural Gas Europe" claims:

Quote
fracking is not new and has been used without previous controversy since the 1940s.


http://www.naturalgaseurope.com/shale-opponents-misrepresent-risks-3719
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 10:54am
Thought this might be worth a read. So far I haven't, in a hurry, but it might give a clearer picture.
Slightly different photo shot to the one in Lancashire on Gibbo's link.

http://blog.skytruth.org/2011/04/fracking-safe-or-not.html
Posted By: Sallybear Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 11:14am
Originally Posted by granny
Thought this might be worth a read. So far I haven't, in a hurry, but it might give a clearer picture.
Slightly different photo shot to the one in Lancashire on Gibbo's link.

http://blog.skytruth.org/2011/04/fracking-safe-or-not.html


Interesting photo, but Wyoming, a far cry from Lancashire, we live in England. England is about the size of New York State, the USA is not something to be making comparisons too, seriously~!
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 11:25am
There were plans for a solar farm in North Wales. These exist in America on a much larger scale, but it didn't mean that entire North Wales would have solar panels on them.


As for Wyoming:

Quote
Wyoming is a state in the mountain region of the Western United States. Wyoming is the 10th most extensive, but the least populous and the second least densely populated of the 50 United States


And just completely proves my point that people will make up their own minds based on scant information (the picture above for example) and refuse to accept anything else.

Wirral: 264 Square KM
Wyoming: 253,348 Square KM

By my rough calculations, 959 times larger. Plenty of room for a large frack site.

Don't believe me? Go to Google Maps, click on Satellite View, and see how small the site is, if you can actually find it in all that waste land.
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 11:35am
Found more about people trying to compare Elswick with Wyoming:

http://frackland.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/cuadrilla-elswick-and-some-spectacular.html

Quote
The Jonah Field is a tight gas (i.e. sandstone) field developed in the early 1990s. That is before the technology to drill horizontal wells had been developed, so of course there are a lot of wells. Shale gas in the UK would look nothing like the Jonah field.


Here's Elswick on Google Maps:

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=elswick,+lancashire&hl=en&ll=53.839007,-2.869663&spn=0.04239,0.111494&sll=54.967958,-1.640096&sspn=0.020619,0.055747&t=h&hnear=Elswick,+Lancashire,+United+Kingdom&z=14

Anyone want to try and pinpoint the frack site? It should only take a second if its such a huge blight on the landscape.
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 12:29pm
Just as a matter of fact, I did NOT compare the Wyoming site with anything in this country. It was a remark made as a comparison to picture only! Now, if anyone thinks that I know not about the size of this country related to the size of New York, Wyoming or any other region they might like to spout about for my benefit, then they must think that I too arrived with Pinz on the Banana boat. Lighten up, nothing has proven or attempted to be proven from a mere picture, and nobody so far is so adamant that this fracking is necessarily a bad thing.
The way in which everything is handled and quietly administered in this country, is the contentious bit. As you say Gibbo, if nobody knew there was a fracking site in Lancashire for however many years, we have to ask, why not, although If you believe that the major companies will have tiddly little wells dotted around on similar size to Elswick, financially it is not in their interest and they will undoubtedly be larger than Elswick.
That aside, it is the 'geological' implications that most are concerned about.
Why has the Government offered councils so much cash incentive? It is to put towards the infrastructure of the drilling sites, not the exploration wells.
Posted By: Sallybear Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 12:34pm
Wow calm down I wasn't having a go at you don't turn this into something it doesn't need to be.
Posted By: casper Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 12:43pm
Whoa, just a minute, hate bias xenophobia where did all that come from? I gave my opinion, which I believe we are allowed to do on this site, I have worked for and with the French and with many Southerners, the majority of the latter being less than gracious about the North especially Mersey siders, they seem to think we are all thieves and both my college and I were subject to the usual make sure you lock your locker up, don't leave anything laying about etc, same with the French less the snide comments about the thieving, but hey that is my personal opinion based on experience, as to your site no sorry I haven't read it, as someone mentioned earlier Great Britain is not the USA if you believe its right then fine that's your opinion, I haven't accused you or your opinion. smile
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 2:15pm
Wow, some epic backtracking from Casper and Granny when presented with facts!
Posted By: casper Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 3:33pm
I haven't back tracked on anything, I still believe that it is not in the best interest of Wirral nor for the country, the basis of your "fact" is that a few wells have been drilled allegedly without impact on the environment, that does'nt make them safe everywhere else ( that's why the French don't want them), if your so sure and such an expert why don't you advise Cameron, or write an article for the Wirral Globe, I am sure they would be grateful for your experience and knowledge on the subject.
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 4:35pm
BOOM or SLUMP
If experience in America is replicated here, homeowners in affected areas could see their house prices fall by around 24 per cent. Live just outside them however and they could rise by 24 per cent as part of the economic boost any new fuel strikes are expected to bring.( paper article on office wall 2 years old)
I find it hard to believe the high voltage direct current system
being installed the length of Wirral has nothing to do with the gas strike. (one way at the moment, can be made reversible)
I find it even harder to believe that people think they have a say in what is going to happen. If you do, you must think you live in a democracy.
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 4:45pm
Originally Posted by casper
I haven't back tracked on anything, I still believe that it is not in the best interest of Wirral nor for the country, the basis of your "fact" is that a few wells have been drilled allegedly without impact on the environment, that does'nt make them safe everywhere else ( that's why the French don't want them), if your so sure and such an expert why don't you advise Cameron, or write an article for the Wirral Globe, I am sure they would be grateful for your experience and knowledge on the subject.


A few wells ? Try thousands. Operating for decades.

What does the French banning them have to do with anything? They're all for nuclear and have a terrible safety record, not to mention their over zealous ban of roast beef.

Incidentally, it was recently announced that France is to cut its dependency on nuclear power, so its got to find the energy from somewhere.

The problem is you're being swayed by biased media and protesters who've convinced themselves that the movie "Gasland" was real and not faked, and just remembering those things.

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper...roducer-misled-viewers-lighted-tap-water


You claim that "a few wells have been drilled allegedly without impact on the environment, that does'nt make them safe everywhere else".

How do you know unless trial wells are tested? How do you know that it won't be a success like Elswick? The sandstone conditions are the same here.

Or are you one of those kind of people who think we should do nothing, carry on burning the fossil fuels? Or would you prefer a nice nuclear power station at Neston?
Posted By: CVCVCV Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 5:13pm
There's already over a million fracking sites in the USA, according to Wikipedia:
"As of 2012, 2.5 million hydraulic fracturing jobs have been performed on oil and gas wells worldwide, more than one million of them in the United States."
...and oddly, neither the USA nor our tap water are exactly on fire, nor been laid waste, just yet.
As with any drilling for underground fuels, there are going to be some issues here and there - but of course the environmentalists and Hollywood are as usual, doing a great scaremongering job, between them.
Posted By: casper Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 7:16pm
I don't know for sure, and neither do you, but I wouldn't like to find out when it is too late and the damage is done, if there are no risks involved, why hasn't some independent regulated body come out and supported that claim? maybe because they have doubts, It appears that those with the most to gain from it are the main advocates of fracking.

You mention in your post that France are seeking an alternative to nuclear power, well wouldn't the obvious choice be fracking? by the way I haven't been swayed by a biased media or protesters, I can make up my own mind, I leave the swaying to the Daily Mail and Sun readers.
Posted By: ponytail Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 8:16pm
Are there any fault lines on the Wirral - fracking on these could be catastrophic.
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 8:55pm
Originally Posted by Gibbo
Wow, some epic backtracking from Casper and Granny when presented with facts!


Nobody is backtracking Gibbo, how can we when we haven't made up our minds yet? How can we when results have not been published yet. Did you read the link I put up ? I read yours.

After all these years of so called 'no problems'

April 2011
Quote:

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is studying the safety of fracking. Congress is holding two hearings this week, in the House and in the Senate, to try to get some answers.

Improving our Scientific Understanding of Hydraulic Fracturing

April 2012 Memorandum of Agreement among the U.S. Departments of Energy and Interior and U.S. EPA about Collaboration on Unconventional Oil and Gas Research (PDF)


EPA's study of hydraulic fracturing and its potential impact on drinking water resources: EPA is undertaking a national study to understand the potential impacts of hydraulic fracturing on drinking water resources. The study will include a review of published literature, analysis of existing data, scenario evaluation and modeling, laboratory studies, and case studies. EPA expects to release a progress report in 2012 and final draft report for peer review and comment in 2014. Learn more about the study at epa.gov/hfstudy" unquote.........

Therefore the final draft for peer review has not been released yet.
So, after so many years of fracking in the US, they are still not satisfied.

By the way,I did live within an hour of Sizewell B in Suffolk and know what happened to the property prices. Also back in 1987 the chemicals used for crops spraying was halted, due to the water being contaminated and causing stomach cancer. That was an ongoing concern from 1958. Although this has nothing to do with fracking, the essence of undercover secrecy, concerns us all.

At this point in time I would like someone of professional and qualified experience to give us the facts concerning all aspects of this intention. Then and only then, will I be making my mind up. Thanks

Posted By: Sallybear Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 9:23pm
Well I don't know how much use I can be, but I have been invited by the Council to comment on the most recent Climate Change Strategy, I know it isn't directly related to Fracking but it might provide a voice.
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 14th Jan 2014 9:45pm
Originally Posted by Sallybear
Well I don't know how much use I can be, but I have been invited by the Council to comment on the most recent Climate Change Strategy, I know it isn't directly related to Fracking but it might provide a voice.


Is that The Wirral Climate Change Group?

Should be very interesting Sallybear. You could maybe mention that garden waste, buried into landfill produces large amounts of methane, a powerful greenhouse gas that contributes to global warming.
Good luck, hope it goes well.
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 27th Jan 2014 7:46pm
Has anyone just viewed 'Inside Out' about fracking in Lancashire? Just shows what comes to light.. the longer we wait.
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 4th Feb 2014 12:08pm
Nice piece of selective reporting from the BBC today:

Fracking sites announced by Cuadrilla in Lancashire

Quote
Cuadrilla, one of the energy firms hoping to exploit the UK's shale gas resources, has announced two new exploration sites in Lancashire.

The company says it intends to apply for planning permission to drill and frack at two sites at Elswick and Little Plumpton near Blackpool.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26032285


No, it has to re-apply for permission as permits expire. As I've already said, this site has been operating since 1993, way back under British Gas.

Lets see if the protestors rock up to the site. They'll be in for a shock when they try and block lorries as there won't be any!
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 4th Feb 2014 4:54pm
Cluff natural resources wants to extract gas using a process known as gasification. It involves drilling a deep hole and igniting the coal before piping the gas to the surface.
The firm has been awarded a licence for the Loughor and Dee Estuaries. Loughor 42sq.KM and the Dee Estuary off the North Wales coast 62sqKM.
Could this be the reason? the "subsea high voltage direct current system"went right up the middle of Wirral and around the estuary to North Wales.
Posted By: davew3 Re: Fracking on Wirral - 4th Feb 2014 5:46pm
The cable comes up mid Wirral due to the moving sandbanks in the Dee and they are afraid the cable could get damaged, as far as damage is concerned I don't think they could do any more damage to the Dee with all those horrible windmills out to sea, lets get frackin in Wirral and stop messing about, we need the energy produced if we are going to keep the doors open to the rest of the world wanting to get their pot of gold from our streets by immigrating here .
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 4th Feb 2014 7:02pm
Have a look on this link showing fracking across USA.

Click on the skull and crossbones. Lots of negative experiences reported.

Then be confident to tell us that happenings like that could not happen here, and why they could not happen here in the UK.


http://earthjustice.org/features/campaigns/fracking-across-the-united-states



Posted By: CVCVCV Re: Fracking on Wirral - 4th Feb 2014 7:16pm
OK all very well, but having clicked on a bunch of the skulls, it looks like a lot of them aren't necessarily Fracking-related incidents at all... Things like a gas pipeline explosion, or 'escaping gas' or even an oil tank catching fire... Not saying that these aren't without their own concerns, but you can't blame them all on fracking, per se (gas escapes / fires can occur at any natural oil or gas well).
Posted By: davew3 Re: Fracking on Wirral - 4th Feb 2014 8:03pm
When they add the positive experiences as well as the negative experiences then maybe the link would become worthwhile, they won't, so I won't even bother looking at a onesided none argument.
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 4th Feb 2014 8:36pm
The cable is one of the words longest undersea power cables running from Scotland down to Wales via the Irish Sea. This is to provide US with renewable energy (cough).It will also run in reverse "if needed".We have gas coal and wind in abundance and I think the transport for it will be shaped like a power station.
Also,the long term flood risk management for this estuary ,as with others in the North West may change if proposals for a tidal power barrages are progressed.(long term vision for the Dee, draft recommendations)0/100 years.2010.
Posted By: davew3 Re: Fracking on Wirral - 4th Feb 2014 9:16pm
Think hell would have to be frozen over before the green nutters and the rest gloabal warming/climate/freezing/flooding/wrong snow/don't cut that tree down loons would allow a tidal barrage in the Dee, look at the problems they are having with trying to get a Severn barrage.
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 5th Feb 2014 10:33am
Originally Posted by granny
Have a look on this link showing fracking across USA.

Click on the skull and crossbones. Lots of negative experiences reported.

Then be confident to tell us that happenings like that could not happen here, and why they could not happen here in the UK.


http://earthjustice.org/features/campaigns/fracking-across-the-united-states


We're not in the USA though. What's under the ground here isn't the same as in the USA.

Fracking techniques, just like mining, are different in the USA.

That link is dated 2011.

You need to stop comparing the UK with the USA, there's little in common.

If you want to compare sites then take the Elswick one. The one operating in sandstone (which is what Wirral sits on), and has been operating without incident since 1993. Where were the protesters back then when British Gas was operating it?

But sadly, that's the only weapon anti-fracking campaigners have - lies.

Remember this link that was posted:

http://frack-off.org.uk/why-does-cuadrilla-own-an-old-gas-well-near-elswick-in-lancashire/

with fracking sites dotted around our green and pleasant land.

When you look at the real picture you find not only the scale is completely wrong (the land the sites are on is hundreds of times bigger), but "The Jonah Field is a tight gas (i.e. sandstone) field developed in the early 1990s. That is before the technology to drill horizontal wells had been developed, so of course there are a lot of wells. Shale gas in the UK would look nothing like the Jonah field."

http://frackland.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/cuadrilla-elswick-and-some-spectacular.html

It was funny watching the protester squirming on the local news last night. She wouldn't accept that most of the locals in Lancashire didn't really care - other than a concern for more traffic in the area - and she kept banging on that people would be against fracking if they saw the evidence and proof.

She was given a spot on television, why didn't she have any with her?
Posted By: casper Re: Fracking on Wirral - 5th Feb 2014 11:30am
Well none of us are experts on the subject, and amongst those that are there is a difference of opinion, I would hate for the headlong rush to "start digging" without all the true facts being known to begin and then find out later about any associated problems, my fear is that the £ signs are spinning around in Camerons eyes and that his government will agree to anything to the detriment of the population and the environment.
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 5th Feb 2014 4:30pm
The Groundwater Vulnerability of West Cheshire (sheet16)shows the site to be underlain by a major aquifer. Major aquifers are highly permeable formations usually with a known or probable presence of significant fracturing. They may be highly productive and able to support large extractions for public supply and other purposes.
I believe we and the rest of the country will enjoy the benefits of fracking, whether we like it or loath it.I also think we should make informed decisions on how it is achieved and not be rode roughshod by our new masters.The effects will be local the decisions should be local.
Posted By: gerry1 Re: Fracking on Wirral - 6th Feb 2014 10:13pm
Originally Posted by dustymclean

I believe we and the rest of the country will enjoy the benefits of fracking, whether we like it or loath it.


Well Dusty.if they find gas under my house then yours will probably next.
I have just heard on the BW news that the Cockran Area off Alburta Canada(frequency 12.100khz )that parts of america have now got big problems in that they are being sued by many people who's cattle are dying, and people are suffering all sorts of problems with there health through leaking gases from the ground, they have just said about 30 minutes ago that there are over (5000 different) types of gas leaking out of the ground ,and people are being evacuated from there homes and being offerd 50,000 Dollars to leave..

So when they start Fr-ckin around Birkenhead, they will not offer you any compo and tell you to leave.

I hope you (don't smoke or drink water).

PS: AND DO YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO BENEFITED FROM NORTH SEA OIL.
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 6th Feb 2014 11:55pm
DO YOU KNOW ANYONE WHO BENEFITED FROM NORTH SEA OIL
A lot of Birkenhead seamen finished their working lives on the rigs, or associated industries, one literally.This was after having their Merchant Navy jobs taken from under them.This country has been running on empty for a few decades (no industry)on the back of oil and money laundering.I am not a fracking fan, I was being pedantic,perhaps not forceful enough, and more so taken out of context I don,t smoke and only drink beer so I am alright.
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 7th Feb 2014 12:03pm
Originally Posted by casper
Well none of us are experts on the subject, and amongst those that are there is a difference of opinion, I would hate for the headlong rush to "start digging" without all the true facts being known to begin and then find out later about any associated problems


But fracking has been happening in the UK since 1945. You'd think any problems would have come to light by now.

The problem is the media is listening to the rabble making the most noise - the protesters. Lets face it, it gets viewers and sells more papers.
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 7th Feb 2014 12:15pm
This is a great example of protester lies.

Take a look at this picture:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23547861

The placard says 82% says no.

When this was on Sky News, the woman says 82% of the village of Balcombe were against it. She also referred to the "exploding water" incident in America, which was long ago found to be faked (funny how people remember the lie but not the subsequent truth)

However, do a little research and you find that 850 households received a poll document:

http://balcombeparishcouncil.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/121020-letter-to-wscc.pdf

And here are the results of the poll:

http://balcombeparishcouncil.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/fracking-poll-results.pdf

only 284 polling cards had been returned..

If it's such an important issue to the people of Balcombe you'd have thought more than a third of the people would have responded.

So that's lie one - not 82% of the village, but only 33%.

Out of that 284, only 125 gave reasons why.

Out of those 125 do you know what the top answer was?

"Increase in road traffic through the village".



Now lets move onto Barton Moss - they're protesting against fracking there.

But there is no fracking, just exploratory well digging. So again, lies. The company here, iGas, already has a site in Warrington. But again, that's not well known because its been running safely for years with no incidents or issues. Again, see if you can find it on Google Earth.

I wouldn't mind if it was a beauty spot but its not. I used to live by the moss, its just a desolate wasteland that gets no tourism. Its used mainly for peat extraction.

As for the protesters, locals report littering and human waste dumped in the area by the protesters. They also fired a flare at a police helicopter and during a subsequent search by the police drugs were found.
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 12th Feb 2014 1:26am
... add flooding to the equation ! What happens then ?
Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Feb 2014 12:52pm
Nothing. The sites are fine.

Flooding is surface water.

Fracking and mining is done deep underground, with sealed wells.
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Feb 2014 1:18pm
Check this out
www.bbc.uk/news/uk-england-25902272
Thousands of gallons of water containing 90% more radio active material than drinking water, released into the Manchester Ship Canal
and
High Court rules out high risk flood zone near Manchester Ship Canal
and
4.2b Royal Haskoning (2009)
If water levels increase significantly, the lock gates can be opened to discharge water into the Mersey.
Posted By: derekdwc Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Feb 2014 1:43pm
If licence to frack is granted - read this profits come first

The 2013 draft EU-Canada trade treaty includes language outlawing any "breach of legitimate expectations of investors" which may occur if revoking drilling licenses of Canada-registered companies in the territory of the European Union after the treaty comes into force.[15] Under Chapter 11 of the existing North American Free Trade Agreement, private companies can sue governments when new laws reduce expected profits from existing contracts, however in the U.K previous regulations have excluded hydraulic fracturing companies from potential costs from cleanup operations or the cost to the U.K taxpayer if such companies were to be made financially redundant
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 13th Feb 2014 3:07pm
"Cheers Derek"
Read, Learn and think.
I think I now Know why certain countries have been let loose on the EEC,With what at first look,seemed to have nothing to offer.The EEC will get billions of euros and dole it out like the old means test.
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 25th Nov 2014 2:21pm
"I'm not for or against"

See above and make your own conclusion

Posted By: Gibbo Re: Fracking on Wirral - 26th Nov 2014 10:23am
If that's a reference to me then I've nothing to hide. I've made it clear that I'm against protester lies and will continue to highlight them.
Posted By: Mark Re: Fracking on Wirral - 26th Nov 2014 10:38am
.
Posted By: dustymclean Re: Fracking on Wirral - 26th Nov 2014 1:09pm
Although hydraulic fracturing in the United Kingdom has been common in the North Sea oil and gas fields since the late 70,s and has been used in about 200 onshore oil and gas fields since the early 80,s.
The technique did not attract public attention until it,s use was proposed for onshore gas wells in 2007 2008.
Although hydraulic fracturing is often synonymously used to refer to shale gas and other unconventional oil and gas sources
it is not always correct to associate it with unconventional gas.
(Wikipedia)
Although shale gas has been extracted since the 40,s It was not a Hydraulic fracturing operation.To find the truth you have to start from a neutral position or you will only see what you want to see.
Posted By: granny Re: Fracking on Wirral - 16th Jan 2015 12:40pm
GREENPEACE AGAINST FRACKING

For your perusal and signature if so wishing:


Wow -- David Cameron's plan to force fracking on us just hit a new low.

The prime minister wants to change the law to allow fracking firms to drill under our homes. But now he's fast-tracking his plan through Parliament at a blistering rate.

Only a HUGE backlash from our MPs can stop him -- and we've got just days to make it happen.

Can you tell your MP to vote against the prime minister's plans to force fracking on us?

Sign the urgent petition to all MPs: https://secure.greenpeace.org.uk/fracking-vote

Hydraulic fracturing, or fracking as it's often known, is a controversial process where a high-pressure mix of water, sand and chemicals is blasted underground to release trapped gas and oil.

It's already been banned in France and Bulgaria, and just last month New York joined the list of US states that have taken action to stop the industry.

Despite massive public opposition, David Cameron is determined to bring fracking to the UK. And right now he's on the cusp of changing our laws to make it easier to roll it out.

But the prime minister's plan can't get the go ahead without approval from MPs -- and inside the halls of Westminster, a backlash is starting. The Scottish National Party and the Green Party have spoken out against Cameron's plan. Amongst Labour and the Lib Dems voices of dissent are on the rise, while Conservatives are feeling increasingly nervous as we approach the election.

MPs will vote on the issue before the end of this month -- that's far earlier than expected and a move that would slash the time for debate and scrutiny.

152,000 people have already asked their MP to vote against Cameron's plan, but we'll be even stronger if thousands more join in. Can you quickly sign?

We're piling the pressure on before the crucial vote. Alongside our friends at 38 Degrees and Friends of the Earth, teams of volunteers will visit several MPs at their offices -- handing over our petition face-to-face. And then next week, we'll double our impact by sending letters to every single Westminster MP -- telling them who's signed the petition in their constituency, and calling on them to vote down Cameron's plan.

Together we'll make this petition unmissable, so if you haven't yet, please sign today: https://secure.greenpeace.org.uk/fracking-vote

With all my thanks,

Richard
Posted By: snowhite Re: Fracking on Wirral - 16th Jan 2015 12:44pm
Signed.
Posted By: RUDEBOX Re: Fracking on Wirral - 16th Jan 2015 1:13pm
Signed and shared.
Posted By: Deannn Re: Fracking on Wirral - 22nd Jan 2015 8:35pm
Signed
Posted By: ludwigvan Re: Fracking on Wirral - 22nd Jan 2015 8:58pm
Ditto.
Posted By: BandyCoot Re: Fracking on Wirral - 23rd Jan 2015 1:27pm
Every time you switch the gas or electric on you are using something that is produced in someone elses "fracking" backyard. Wonder who is going to drip when the lights go out.
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