wirral forums

mobile phone mast

Posted By: dave_h

mobile phone mast - 3rd Feb 2012 9:42pm

theres a new mobile phone mast on mill lane which i thought was knocked back, anyone know anything about this?
Posted By: chev_chelios

Re: mobile phone mast - 3rd Feb 2012 10:01pm

www.sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk/
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 3rd Feb 2012 10:23pm

Originally Posted by dave_h
theres a new mobile phone mast on mill lane which i thought was knocked back, anyone know anything about this?


Why was it knocked back?
Posted By: ASE71

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 12:40am

The more the merrier.......
Posted By: MattLFC

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 9:19am

Originally Posted by ASE71
The more the merrier.......

withthat
Posted By: KevinFinity

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 12:11pm

Its new technology. You must be paranoid, scared and apposed to it whilst being quiet and reaping its benefits when it suits you.
Posted By: MattLFC

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 12:33pm

Originally Posted by KevinFinity
Its new technology. You must be paranoid, scared and apposed to it whilst being quiet and reaping its benefits when it suits you.

Not really new tech anymore lol, its been around since the 80's in the UK... LTE is the one to be scared of (as a new technology) lmao.

But, I agree, many people who are against it, don't mind using it when it suits (even if you're only phoning someone from your landline to their mobile, you're still using it. Just like a whole area stands up and complains about a new supermarket etc, yet 3 months after it's opened, they are all shopping their for their groceries and it becomes a part of normal life...
Posted By: SirTankWelder

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 8:42pm

PLEASE PLEASE do not fund the vile BBC do not purchase a licence .do not open the door to the so called enforcement officers,they have the same powers as the pizza delivery man.say no to the bbc tv tax,join a growing band of people who say no to the funding of the bbc.You do not need a tv licence to own a tv ,you only need a licence if you watch and record "live" tv ,not for watching dvd's or iplayer..save yourself 145.50 a year and log on to tv licenceresistance www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum
Posted By: MattLFC

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 8:45pm

I don't, but PLEASE PLEASE do not spam our forums.

smile
Posted By: SirTankWelder

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 9:09pm

ooops sorry blush
Posted By: Mark

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 9:14pm

Thanks for the info (your not spam)
Cheers.
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 10:07pm

There is NO evidence linking mobile phones, mobile masts or any other personal communication to cancer, electro-hypersensitivity or any other rubbish non-diagnosis someone cares to apply to themselves. So there is the health angle covered
Posted By: Norton

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 10:14pm

Originally Posted by Xan_Asmodi
Originally Posted by dave_h
theres a new mobile phone mast on mill lane which i thought was knocked back, anyone know anything about this?


Why was it knocked back?


I thought it was the one on the fire station that got knocked back. They built it, and the operators lost on appeal, due to being too close to the school or hospital or something? Either way, they agreed to keep it switched off, and still not shown as operational, even now. Perhaps the new mast is its replacement?
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 4th Feb 2012 10:20pm

Originally Posted by Norton
Originally Posted by Xan_Asmodi
Originally Posted by dave_h
theres a new mobile phone mast on mill lane which i thought was knocked back, anyone know anything about this?


Why was it knocked back?


I thought it was the one on the fire station that got knocked back. They built it, and the operators lost on appeal, due to being too close to the school or hospital or something? Either way, they agreed to keep it switched off, and still not shown as operational, even now. Perhaps the new mast is its replacement?


See my above post. Plus info on non-ionising radiation
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 9:31am

Originally Posted by Xan_Asmodi
There is NO evidence linking mobile phones, mobile masts or any other personal communication to cancer, electro-hypersensitivity or any other rubbish non-diagnosis someone cares to apply to themselves. So there is the health angle covered
true for masts, it's not quite that cut and dried for phones.
Posted By: granny

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 10:50am

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
Originally Posted by Xan_Asmodi
There is NO evidence linking mobile phones, mobile masts or any other personal communication to cancer, electro-hypersensitivity or any other rubbish non-diagnosis someone cares to apply to themselves. So there is the health angle covered
true for masts, it's not quite that cut and dried for phones.


Yes DD correct. I know sweet fanny adams about all this.....but what I do know is, that my next door neighbour in Suffolk, who was a Doctor in research at BT research centre Martlesham Heath, would not allow any of his family to use mobile phones for making telephone calls. That was from the health and saftey angle.
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 1:08pm

Originally Posted by granny
Yes DD correct. I know sweet fanny adams about all this.....but what I do know is, that my next door neighbour in Suffolk, who was a Doctor in research at BT research centre Martlesham Heath, would not allow any of his family to use mobile phones for making telephone calls. That was from the health and saftey angle.


In all fairness, that's an anecdote and nothing more. Do you mean H&S as in not crossing the road whilst talking, or was the Dr. scared of low powered radio waves.

If there's a quality, peer reviewed scientific paper that says mobile phones or their masts cause harm then that needs to be taken into account. But all I see are anecdotes and paranoia which aren't evidence enough to prove harm is being caused.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 1:45pm

How about the World Health Organisation?

CLICKY
Posted By: insanekitty

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 2:06pm

OH NO!
So thats a fag in one hand, a mobile in the other whilst sucking up all the diesel fumes from cars and buses.

Thats me doomed then!
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 2:06pm

Two references do not make a thorough study or summation of the evidence.

The first reference is, as far as I can tell this is the complete thing:

Quote
Issue Date: 1992
Status : Archived
On page(s): 1
E-ISBN: 0-7381-3030-3
Cited by : 22
INSPEC Accession Number: 4193844
Digital Object Identifier: 10.1109/IEEESTD.1992.101091
Persistent Link: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/servlet/opac?punumber=2917 More
Year: 1992
Sponsored by: IEEE Electromagnetic Compatibility Society
Related Information: Superseded by IEEE Std C95.1, 1999 Edition


That one is TWO DECADES old

The second refernce is certainly interesting, I'll have to read and digest it, but they're referencing what I believe to be methodologically flawed studies. Plus the fact that it's FOURTEEN YEARS OLD.

The WHO is an authoritative on many things, but in this case at least their evidence search is quite poor. In uni I try not to use any source older than five years, the fresher the better.
Posted By: BandyCoot

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 2:22pm

On spectrum analysers mobile phones show quite a big energy spike. Having seen them and knowing that a mobile phone works on micro-wave frequencies, and also bearing in mind that micro-waves are used to cook steak and kidney pies I only use mine in dire emergencies, or get the missus to use hers. My motto is that anything which can cook a steak and kidney pie has no business longside my ear hole. The jury is still out on how dangerous they are. Masts radiate as well, as do most electrical appliances so it might just be the luck of the draw.
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 2:35pm

That is why WHO are continuing to examine the issue, the previous evidence is inconclusive (ie "not cut and dried", as I stated above).

It is generally expected that as people use phones over a longer period of time and are using them for extended periods, evidence will show there is a significant risk.

The brain can take an amazing amount of damage without showing symptoms, but there are limits (and unfortunate flukes). Virtually all other electromagnetic radiation studies outside of mobile phones have come up with recommended field strengths weaker than those that mobile phones are capable of, the problem is caused mainly by proximity.

The field strengths allowed by mobile masts in areas where people may be present, are lower than those that mobile phones can produce. The phones can be more dangerous than the masts.

As people are living longer and longer, the cumulative effect of minor damages to the brain are more apparent. If your life expectancy is 60, then the effect of mobile phones may be negligible, if your life expectancy is 90 then the effects may become more apparent - what's the point of living longer if part of your extended life is cabbaged. These are further issues that need to be analysed and there are no easy ways of conclusively pre-empting the outcome, previous research does give some indicators though.

On another day, I might have dug up some decent references, but I'm not well.
Posted By: BandyCoot

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 2:42pm

It's surprising what radiating electrical gear can do, that's why security sensitive installations are Tempested to stop the stuff radiating out and getting intercepted. I sometimes wonder whether all this autism and related conditions are to do with the amount of magnetic fields we have around now, something must explain the increase in a lot of these conditions. Amazing what you think about when there's nowt on the box.
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 2:49pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
That is why WHO are continuing to examine the issue, the previous evidence is inconclusive (ie "not cut and dried", as I stated above).

It is generally expected that as people use phones over a longer period of time and are using them for extended periods, evidence will show there is a significant risk.

The brain can take an amazing amount of damage without showing symptoms, but there are limits (and unfortunate flukes). Virtually all other electromagnetic radiation studies outside of mobile phones have come up with recommended field strengths weaker than those that mobile phones are capable of, the problem is caused mainly by proximity.

The field strengths allowed by mobile masts in areas where people may be present, are lower than those that mobile phones can produce. The phones can be more dangerous than the masts.

As people are living longer and longer, the cumulative effect of minor damages to the brain are more apparent. If your life expectancy is 60, then the effect of mobile phones may be negligible, if your life expectancy is 90 then the effects may become more apparent - what's the point of living longer if part of your extended life is cabbaged. These are further issues that need to be analysed and there are no easy ways of conclusively pre-empting the outcome, previous research does give some indicators though.

On another day, I might have dug up some decent references, but I'm not well.


I don't advocate indiscretion over caution, but my original point was why has the mast been knocked back?

As for mobiles using microwaves to transmit and receive, and their similarities to microwave ovens. microwave ovens operate at 600+ watts, mobiles at about 3 watts. There's a huge disparity between the strengths at face value, let alone when you take into account the inverse square law means exposure is less than 100 watts for most, if not all of the population
Posted By: diggingdeeper

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 2:58pm

In a microwave, the field is contained in a Faraday Cage, there is extremely low leakage (less than the output of a mobile phone) and you generally don't plant it next to you head.

When you compare distances of say 30cms to 5mm, that is a ratio of 60 linear, or 3600 square law!
Posted By: BandyCoot

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 3:04pm

I used to know of a RAF copper who thought radiation wouldn't have any effect on him too. Anyway, he cooked his gonads and aint going to be a dad any time soon. I wouldn't like to live under a mast and I still won't put a phone alongside my nut unless it's a total emergency and I don't know the square root of feck all, it's my choice.
oldman
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 4:05pm

Originally Posted by diggingdeeper
In a microwave, the field is contained in a Faraday Cage, there is extremely low leakage (less than the output of a mobile phone) and you generally don't plant it next to you head.

When you compare distances of say 30cms to 5mm, that is a ratio of 60 linear, or 3600 square law!


that was part of my point which perhaps I wasn't clear about. microwave ovens are shielded yes, but drawing a comparison on such disparate powers and uses is flawed from the get go.

As for autism, that's a completely different can of worms
Posted By: JLowe

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 4:50pm

We all need to stop communicating as we'll all get cancer.

Also, stop crossing the road, as you might get run over.

I've just put an offer in on a cave. Can't wait to move in.
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 4:52pm

Originally Posted by JLowe
We all need to stop communicating as we'll all get cancer.

Also, stop crossing the road, as you might get run over.

I've just put an offer in on a cave. Can't wait to move in.


What's the area like? May join you.
Posted By: BandyCoot

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 4:59pm

Pardon me for having an opinion. Promise I won't do it again.
FFS

Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 5:23pm

Originally Posted by BandyCoot
Pardon me for having an opinion. Promise I won't do it again.
FFS


I'm not having a go at anyone, but strive to dispel misconceptions and misunderstandings. Should rules be based upon evidence or gut feelings?
Posted By: MattLFC

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 5:26pm

This topic reminds of the grossly exaggerated adverse effects of nuclear radiation - when in actual fact, those who live in area's of the world with higher natural levels of nuclear radiation, live healthier lives on average.

Case in point: Chernobyl.

As has been previously stated, a lot of people seem to moan about radiation, pollution etc on the internet... but they are doing so using computer systems that were built using materials and components created with the aid of radiation and pollution, shipped to them with the aid of pollution, and fundamentally powered by the aid of pollution and radiation.

Unless anyone on here is a caveman who can post using some sort of telepathic gift, I'd consider winding your neck in if you want moan about such things as radiation.

smile
Posted By: Xan_Asmodi

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 5:46pm

Originally Posted by MattLFC
This topic reminds of the grossly exaggerated adverse effects of nuclear radiation - when in actual fact, those who live in area's of the world with higher natural levels of nuclear radiation, live healthier lives on average.

Case in point: Chernobyl.

As has been previously stated, a lot of people seem to moan about radiation, pollution etc on the internet... but they are doing so using computer systems that were built using materials and components created with the aid of radiation and pollution, shipped to them with the aid of pollution, and fundamentally powered by the aid of pollution and radiation.

Unless anyone on here is a caveman who can post using some sort of telepathic gift, I'd consider winding your neck in if you want moan about such things as radiation.

smile


+1

Radiation is all around us. Light, heat, tv and radio transmissions, background radiation from rocks and cosmic radiation that makes it through the atmosphere etc. it's all around us alone the time.

The word radiation conjures up images of the effects of Hiroshima, Nagasaki and Chenobyl. Modern life wouldn't be possible without it. Xrays, CT scans, MRIs and radiotherapy gone
Posted By: BandyCoot

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 6:00pm

A pound to a pinch you drink in the Shrew as well.
Stap me!
Posted By: JLowe

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 6:46pm

Originally Posted by BandyCoot

Stap me!


What would I have to do in order to stap you?
Posted By: BandyCoot

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 6:52pm

It's a very old catchphrase and saves me from swearing.
Posted By: JLowe

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 7:04pm

Swear away.

I bet you have a pet dinosaur too?

Regardless, you might want to stay indoors for the rest of your life, and wrap yourself in tin foil.
Posted By: BandyCoot

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 7:09pm

No, he died just before Christmas. The whole family was gutted and wouldn't leave the cave for a week.
Don't be so patronising son, you've no idea.

oldman
Posted By: Snodvan

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 7:16pm

Originally Posted by Xan_Asmodi
Originally Posted by JLowe
We all need to stop communicating as we'll all get cancer.

Also, stop crossing the road, as you might get run over.

I've just put an offer in on a cave. Can't wait to move in.


What's the area like? May join you.


Sod's Law would be that the cave would have a leakage of radioactive Radon gas through the rock - and that would get you PDQ

Snod
Posted By: JLowe

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 7:38pm

Originally Posted by BandyCoot

Don't be so patronising son, you've no idea.


Really?

What is it that you know and nobody else does?
Posted By: BandyCoot

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 7:38pm

Is that what it was, Radon? I thought someone had dropped their handbag.
Posted By: JLowe

Re: mobile phone mast - 5th Feb 2012 7:47pm

Originally Posted by BandyCoot
I've run out of things to say


How I read it.
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