Tram Scheme For Wirral Is Put On The Agenda

Feb 1 2012 by David Bartlett, Birkenhead News

TRAMS are back on the agenda in Merseyside – but this time in Wirral.

Transport authority Merseytravel is investigating whether to create a tram system around the proposed £4.5bn Wirral Waters skyscraper scheme for Birkenhead’s docklands.

The authority voted to instruct consultants to look into the costs of the scheme, which would also involve taking over Wirral council’s heritage tramway in Birkenhead.

Wirral council is currently trying to offload the heritage tramway and wanted bids to take it over by next week.

But councillors on Merseytravel said they did not have enough information to sanction a bid, because the tramway requires a subsidy of £250,000-a-year.

Councillors were reluctant to commit to bidding for the tramway without an update report into the costs. Developers Peel have agreed to pay 50% of the cost of a study to investigate the costs.

Merseytravel will vote again on the tram scheme for Wirral once a full breakdown of the costs of the scheme is known.

In February last year Merseytravel pulled out of similar negotiations to take over the tramway, because Wirral council wanted to sell the Pacific Road theatre as part of the deal.

The council removed the arts centre from the deal, bringing Merseytravel back to the table.

But councillors were still concerned about the potential costs.

Labour’s Cllr Joe Hanson, who represents Liverpool on Merseytravel, said: “Merseytravel wants to do what it can to support Wirral Waters and Wirral council, but there are a number of issues here.

“The costs of £250,000 a year put us in a terrible position.”

Wirral representative Cllr Chris Blakeley said that the authority needed to take a leap of faith.

“Wirral Waters is a scheme that will bring jobs to the region and we should do all we can to support it.”

were would the tramline run to? from pacific road to wirral waters. it would cost loads to do at least look at connecting a transport hub i.e secombe ferry or conway park station to make it worthwhile

Perhaps some of the tolls from MerseyTravel's cash cow (the tunnels) could be spent on the Wirral for a change?

Shouldn't this be “Merseytravel wants to do what it can to support Wirral PEOPLE but there are a number of issues here."

It's all about money with Merseytravel. How about seeing more return for our tolls and setting up and running a tramway. You'd get your money back when the development is complete through increased usage. A lot of existing unused track around the docks means a lot of the pressure to find track-ways doesn't need worrying about. Do something for the long suffering Wirralonians Merseytravel.

The original plan was to run it through the docks to Seacombe Ferry. Eventually it would go to New Brighton along the prom. There's an interview somewhere on the web with Neil Scales, ex-Merseytravel boss, about his plans for the tramway.
There was also talk of the Birkenhead end going on to Hamilton Square Station, the town centre and terminate at Birkenhead. Alas, just a pipedream for the moment.

see touchstone that plan would be good it would make the most of the opertunity out there for this kind of scheme but the cost would be huge

Never ever seen the trams running, thought they were using them for very very special occasions, £250,000 a year is a lot of running costs in an invisible tram system.

We also have the redundant section of dock railway from Rock Ferry ,past Birkenhead town centre , then close to the existing tramway & onwards to the international trade centre & finally Birkenhead North.Plenty of interchanges there ,plus lots of existing heavy duty rail still in place, although the sleepers & ballast probably need replacing.

Bob.

Here's an interesting article about extending the Merseyrail network using existing tunnels to give a truly comprehensive rapid transit network.

If we want a rapid transit network over here then just put the bus routes back to the way they were. Hub at Woodside and spokes and circulars out from there, it used to work a treat.

Whatever happens it will:
a) not go ahead,
b) not go ahead.

Like the proposed Liverpool/Everton stadium, I'm sick of hearing about 'proposed' tram system.

I'd rather extend the line and make a continuation underground from New Brighton and turn it into the "Wallasey Loop" where it goes under Liscard, Egremont,Seacombe, The Twelve Quay's near the Hydraulic Tower and rejoin the main line at either Conway Park or Hamilton Square. That way there's a loop around the docks to suit the Wirral Waters and it gives everyone in Wallasey easier access to the rail network.

What again! there goes a flying pig

Had a meeting a wile back with wirral invest that where talking about this development but in a nut shell its destined to never get off the ground even with local developers like CBRE etc buying up the waterfront etc, not enough people will use it to warrant it getting of the ground.

Look at Manchester though, that works

I think the cost of this would be astronomically high and unviable, not that it wouldn't be a boon

Sadly, that wont happen under the current privatised system. Ever since Maggie deregulated the buses they've done pretty much whatever they want. Arriva are slowly but surely pulling out of Woodside.

Someone will make a packet doing a feasibility study though and some council fat cats will be right in there amongst it.

Always six - seven figure sums contracted out to external consultancy firms. I wonder how far the papertrail would go before it ends up at one of the councillor's or a masonic lodge chum?

Who needs a tram, especially one centred round Birkenhead? Its a complete waste of money. Trams should be in transport museums. Ok they have them Manchester but at least people use them there to get round the well used shopping area and surrounding places of interest, Birkenhead? Nah forget it

tourists would use the tram . it would link with the ferries and go from new brighton to seacombe . it would bring loads of cash to the area as do the ferries now .

What makes you think the ferries bring loads of cash to the area?

I think the Wirral is a nice place, but the only touristy places are on the 'west coast' (lol), I wouldn't say it was even slightly a tourist attraction, the money has never gone into that area.

the amount of people who come from all over the world to liverpool . a lot of them to go on the ferries . also filling hotels , resturants and spending in the city . thats how it is .

Do you see many tourists in Birkenhead then!

err loads . i work at woodside . i see people from all over all year round . they come for the beatles , ferries and then there is the u-boat which is hitting its figures . also people who have moved away and bring their families to see where they grew up . i do the tour guide bit with people telling them the history of the area and people always say they will recommend it . so yes i see loads of tourists .

I don't get who is going to use trams, considering where they are running.

Is it just me?

Is there actually a demand for increased public transport on Wirral down the east-side?

I guess it would make the trip to town to sign-on a more pleasurable experience...

tourists will use it . they love that sort of stuff . the more there is the more will come . esp now cruise liners will increase . i see and speak to people every day . i`m just trying to be positive . oh and it will help me keep my job and others get 1 .so cant be all bad eh ? .

Everywhere else I've been where there are trams, e.g. Nottingham, the trams run through the shopping centre of the city which is still a thriving commercial area. I can see no sense in trams going down a narrow strip of Birkenhead/Wallasey etc. and actually passing through nowhere and ending up at nowhere, having started at nowhere in the first place. It wouldn't be worth diverting it up to the Grange Rd area as it's turning into a commericial desert up there, big shops transferring to Bromborough and others skipping town altogether. It's going to be a huge waste of money on consultancies and isn't even going to get off the ground because it isn't commercially feasible. The money would be better spent sorting out the desolate areas, which would at least have a visible result.

trams would go from seacombe , hardly no where as it links with ferry , to new brighton , still a nice place and tourists do go there . a nice trip along prom . funny how people of wallasey /new brighton oppose anything that could be good . like new development in new brighton .

Trips along the Seacombe Riviera, very nice. Must admit I saw a water skier there last summer. Do you remember last summer, I think the sun came out.
Seriously though, it is a lot of money to lay out just for some people, who may or may not visit the area, to have a 15 minute pleasure ride. There used to be the fair ground for that. I just think the money would be better spent cleaning up the bombed sites around Charing Cross and various other parts of the Wirral connurbation to make it more pleasant for the people who actually live here.

the extra revenue from more cruise ships hence more tourists will benefit the local economy . then its down to councilors to spend money in right places to do these areas up .
not convincing anyone am i ? .never mind .

pointless, spend the money where it is needed.

Be very careful featuring the promenade between Seacombe and New Brighton in any 'Transport' plans as most of the land it is built on was given to the Old Wallasey corporation under a deed of covenant that stipulates that it can never be used for such purposes. These last FOR EVER. A few years ago Wilki wanted to run a 'Land Train' (like the ones they have in Spain etc) along there and despite the Council and others being all for it, there was no way of overturning or altering these deeds on this land. So however much it would seem a good idea, it has to be a non- started.

A walk along the prom from Seacombe to NB, or the other way round, in nice weather is actually very pleasant. Stopping off for a pint half way along is a bonus. If you take transport to do the same trip it wouldn't be the same. I'm glad there is a covenant on the use of the prom,good info.

slightly off topic
I think there is a deed of covenant covering the Birkenhead Institute war memorial ground in Ingleborough Road which people are getting a petition to stop Tranmere Rovers selling the land.
I think where money is involved integrity is kicked out the door
and loopholes are soon found to allow deeds of covenant to be broken

the same thing was said about stanley park , it was given to the city by a rich family . but lfc got permission to build . nothing is forever

It is very unfortunate that people "gift" lands to the public, for the public good, however they don't envisage that the gifting effectively gives it council ownership which is then an asset that the council can dispose off however they want.

Garrylee I relish your enthusiasm for the ferries and surrounding area.... but.
Apart from the U Boat, which incidentally was the idea of a former member of staff from which Neil Scales (as nice as he is) took all the credit, there is nothing left at Woodside. There was a Tourist Information Centre in the terminal,and a gift shop which did very well, the Museum at the Town Hall, the little buses which brought people down from Birkenhead town centre. Birkenhead Town Centre management worked their backsides off promoting Birkenhead market and shopping centre. There were events there e.g. Historic Vehicle Rally, Music events to co-inside with the Beatles festival. So many things were funded from EDF for a short period of time.
The cafe which had so many different contracts with different companies couldn't make it pay and the cruise prices are so expensive for a 50min family trip.
They stopped the commuter ferries in the morning from Woodside(maybe they are running again) The car park which was more used by employees of the CSA , so the ferry customers shot off to Seacombe where they could get a space and park for free. Now it's another expense ontop of the cost of the cruise. Summer might bring more passengers which is great but where do they go from the ferry? Priory isn't always open.
The cruise liners will not be queueing up. If your lucky there may be one every 10days to 2 weeks, but lets not forget that the tourism dept. have put packages together for coach trips to far and wide for the pasengers.Chester, Ness Gardens, Lancashire. This will take the passengers away from Liverpool and those who stay, may take a trip on the ferry, for a round cruise, as time is of essence when they sail again the same day.
For the trams, which probably still only run at weekends and bank holidays,they have been chunnering over extending the line for at least the last 8 years to no avail.
I believe that what they are doing is waiting for another round of free funding like the last lot of £10million, but all that eventually came to nothing as there is nothing left at Woodside now.
Sorry son, but the Ferries have struggled for years and will continue to do so as not many tourists come in the winter months and they need to encourage the local people much more.
Try to enourage them to put a winter package together for local people, who mostly, are struggling to pay their bills.The boats are still running so they may as well fill them up if they can.

A bit off topic but came across this blog about a guy who visits stations on the Merseyrail network and beyond. In his latest entry, he goes from Rock Ferry to Birkenhead North following the route of the now disused Birkenhead Dock Branch Line. It's rather depressing how run-down the environs surrounding it are, especially the Corporation Road area. Seriously in need of some regeneration.

Merseytart

It looks very depressing and no sign of anything in the future. Unfortunately out of sight out of mind, isn't it? To put anything into place for regeneration costs a fotune and takes years. Very sad, the way that areas have been allowed to decay. No doubt a big plan will turn up one day but in the meantime we sit and wait,whislt looking at more derelict sites.

Did you see the News Northwest tonight Touchstone? There you have your answer! Frank Field has intervened after someone in Wirral Council has failed to apply
for £60 million of grant towards re developement of Rok Ferry area, because they couldn't be bothered!

If Birkenhead was a picturesque villiage the Dock Branch would have been turned into a preserved railway years ago. As it stands, with the price of scrap, I'm surprised the tracks are still in situ.

I do have a feeling MerseyTravel (or it's successor) will look into recommisioning the dock branch when the Wirral Waters project gets to a certain point. The question is what type of rolling stock will they use? Tram, steel-wheel train, rubber-tyred train. And how would it be powered? Diesel, over-head electricity, 3rd rail...

Is that true?!

Yes Littlebear, his very words, I saw and heard it myself. Unbelievable isn't it?