Council green light for 20mph zones
what are peoples views on this.

COUNCILLORS have backed a move to cut speed limits to 20mph in all Wirral residential roads.

The scheme was launched in February of last year when Liberal Democrats championed a move by to allocate £270,000 to set up 20mph zones in all residential areas throughout the borough.

The issue was pushed through at a meeting of the full council on Monday when Lib Dems and Conservatives united to outvote Labour.

Liberal Democrat councillor Bob Wilkins said: "I'm delighted we have been able to make sure that the council has re-stated its commitment to this important road safety policy to introduce 20mph zones on non-major roads in residential areas.

"This should help to make Wirral's roads safer for everyone.

"However, I was very disappointed to see that the Labour group have withdrawn support for the policy.

"I am very concerned that, despite money having been made available in the last two successive council budgets, Labour will be looking to find a way to try to frustrate the will of the majority of the council further delay implementation of 20mph zones."

The ruling Labour group was against restarting the scheme as it considered Wirral is facing more pressing priorities for such expenditure.

A statement by their highways chief Cllr Harry Smith said the group believes that "in the current difficult budgetary climate where high numbers of priorities are competing for limited resources, it would be prudent to consider the speed and scale of this programme as part of the overall budget process before making any final financial commitments."
Source

How can a scheme which will help save lies and horrific injuries have a less pressing priority than other schemes??? The mind boggles, they are just grandstanding for political ends. Lives come first you numpties.

Enforcement ? How ? Yes, if EVERYONE kept to the 20mph limit lots of lives would be saved. The trouble is, try telling that to the pompous, big-headed, brain dead numptie in its flash heap of tin who's breathing down your exhaust pipe because he wants to show how stupidly fast he can go and you are doing 20mph ! (and breathe..........)

Seems there is two supporters in this thread so far. How about instead of cutting speed, which will cut accidents, admittedly, but it would cut even more accidents and almost eliminate deaths at 10mph. How low do you go? Man with a red flag back?

Educating drivers to drive at speeds appropriate to the conditions is better, slow down during busy times when people are about, and then the speed limit when it is quiet.

My sympathy knows no ends for any pedestrian that gets knocked down or run over on a pavement, it diminishes greatly when their run over on the road, God forbid if it ever happens to me while crossing a road but there is only one person i shall blame and thats me. While i wouldn't like to see a free for all on our roads, the pedestrian has to take some responsibility when crossing them. These silly little bumps they put on the roads only slow cars down as they get to them, once over, most cars speed up until they get to the next one, on saying that most don't even slow down for them, stand outside my house if proof is needed. Unless they can back up these 20mph zones with speed cams, there pretty useless.

Some people are in a hurry, you know? Work?
You sound like one of those annoying people sticking to just under the speed limit. It's people like that that cause accidents in my opinion!
"I've been driving 50" blah blah, you also passed you test in the frigging army pal, no contest there then? Ha, pass your test properly then moan.
Oh look, it's always a micra when there's a jam too, ram it out the way and carry on. Oh no, if only.

I thought the speed bumps were meant to reduce road accidents?
I think they should have it done with and put every driver in jail forever.

Jesus wept!
I thought you had more sence, we don't need our prisons clogged up with innocent drivers thanks.

personal insults
keep it on topic please opinions are welcome.

ste a pass is a pass

really do agree with the 20mph on residential streets, i tend not to do over 25 in them now.

so long as they remove the stupid speed bumps that litter our roads and wreck our cars !

And if any proof was needed for the implimentation of the reduced speed limit, there it is, in all its proud glory!

Yeah it is. Although I do stick to speed limits I also get annoyed when some Pratt is doing 20mph in a 30 zone.
Selfish and dangerous.

Just for the record ste No, I didn't pass my test in the Army - I've never been in the Army. Yes, I did pass my test "properly" when I was 17. I drive at a speed that's SAFE for the location, conditions etc. I drive a 6x6 Pinzgauer - not a Micra. I may be an eco-terrorist but not an idiot. Oh yes ste, I passed my Advanced Driving Test with ROSPA a while back. Go slowly without reason with them and it's a fail! Please do NOT make bland assumptions about people you don't know.


Mark has already given you the hint. End of.

I wasn't on about you, it was a figure of speech

Calm down dear.

I think 20mph is built up residential areas is wholly appropriate. But at the same time I think our speed limits in general are pretty rubbish.

People assume that doing the speed limit makes it safe and there are far too many people who will write you off as a danger to society the second you break them.

Oh, and these will be the same people who will do 30 past a school at kicking out time because it's legal and therefore safe then have a little tut to themselves when I pass them at 90mph on the motorway in the middle of the night.

Then you have the 40mph brigade who will scoot along at 40mph in a 30mph and stick to it when the road opens up to an NSL - heaven forbid you attempt an overtake at this point. Oh, and if you do, fully expect them to be up your chuff the second you get back into a 30mph built up area!

Someone mentioned little sympathy for peds being hit on the road, I agree to a certain extent, but we all make mistakes and in my opinion it's better to be alive afterwards than dead or seriously injured. Then there's the kids.

[/rant]

I subscribe to the club that believes that children shouldn't be on or play on the roads, i also think that children under the age of knowing better shouldn't cross a road unattended. Mistakes are made crossing all roads and you can bet they won't have certain roads down to 20mph because it will stop the flow of traffic to much, where's the pedestrian safety then.

But does the lowering of the speed limits not tend to abrogate the need for road safety training, in the minds of the less responsible, and puts the onus on the slower moving drivers to take on the full responsibility for the health and well being of the pedestrians?

I agree with you Bert. In an ideal world......... (?) Trouble is kids will always be more interested in their friend on the other side of the road, the Ice Cream van, retrieving their ball etc. I thank God I've never seen a hit or even a near miss with a child running out. I have seen however 2 horror shows of an elderley (can we still say that ?) person looking first THEN stepping out in front of a car. Both cases were on a main road in Ayrshire. Luckily, both times the drivers slammed on in time. IMHO both drivers were doing 30mph or below.

The trauma of a child run over at 20 ain't too good come to think of it.

Look, it's not all down to speed, it's down to the car your driving, the weight ect.

Pinz, i once seen a perambulator hit by a motorbike, it was only because it was a perambulator there was a happy outcome and no lasting horror show in my mind, pram first then mummy 3ft behind coming out of parked cars.
Its always annoyed me these stupid adverts that appear from time to time about its better to be run over at 30 mph than 40 mph or 20mph than 30mph as if its acceptable to be run over as long its done under a certain speed. If the powers that be are serious that they want to reduce accidents, and i throw this in to the debate, why not have crossing points on every road and failure to use such points will result in a fine, there's my mind going in to cloud cuckoo land again.

Yes, you're probably right. It shouldn't, but probably does. Prevention is better than a cure etc etc.

I just don't see 20mph in built up areas as a bad thing. Not that I pay much attention to speed limits, I drive to the conditions, so I have been known to do 100+ on the motorway and, shock horror, someone may have been stuck behind me in the past doing 20mph on a heavily built up side road.

Oh, and this debate reminds me of this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnf6ib823vM

Bert nice idea but NO!
I want them to spend my money on the roads not pelican crossings.

Bert. Failure to use the crossing provided or stepping on the crossing whilst it's red for the pedestrian results in a hefty fine in Germany, maybe other places too. Not a bad idea really.

I was lucky to get off with only a Power House roasting from a cop in Dusseldorf. I pleaded not knowing their laws etc. blah blah and I got off with it. Was in a hurry to catch a tram. DOH !

For you the war was nearly over Pinz,

Ste's nearly got the solution, bigger POTHOLES.

The thought of being in Stalag Coalhouse for the duration made me wait for the little green Fuhrer !

Two observations from a recent visit to the USA

In the USA they are VERY strict about speed limits adjacent to schools. ALL "school zones" are clearly marked and when the indicator lights flash (turned on from the school at entry/ leaving time) then traffic MUST slow to 20mph. Many zones are camera monitored.

To my amazement I have to admit driver DO OBEY the requirement, so I guess the monitoring and fines are effective.

It is STRICTLY no parking (inc. drop-offs etc) within the marked school zone

You are also not permitted to overtake/ pass a stationary school bus when it has double flashers showing kids entering or leaving the vehicle. That can happen anywhere along the bus route - which may be many miles. THAT is much more restrictive because effectively it halts all traffic on a 2-lane road - but, everyone DOES seem to obey. Many of the buses have mounted cameras. In the USA school buses are the norm for kids to get to/ from school because the catchment areas can be huge.

Snod

Me think the council done a deal wuth the local garage to keep them in business. The damaged the speed bumps have done to my car and yet ive been doing the 20 mph.. There are ways of carming the traffic without doing this.

And another thing that does my head in is these parent who take the kids to school by car and parks on the zig zags outside the school (worse culpits is holm drive )Your not surpose to park on these ...lol

The council will be turning the street lights down shortly to save money. Twenty mile an hour is needed to get the health and safety risk assessment on board.

Another big difference in the USA is that in residential areas, you hardly ever see a parked car in the roadway, as nearly everyone here has a driveway. But driving around in Wallasey, you are almost always driving along between two unbroken lines of parked cars, often leaving only room for one car to pass...! I think there should be a law that says if you own a car you ought to drive it... all those parked cars should be getting driven somewhere, not parked outside the house, all day long, every day!! LOL (JK!)

and the brain driving it of course - trouble is that many cars are quicker than the brains driving them !!

There are some very doctrinaire local councilors who really believe that things like speed bumps are the answer to faulty street layouts and that speed limits should all be reduced. The exit from the M53 to New Brighton link onto Leasowe Road Moreton bound is one example of a faulty road layout: traffic coming down the slip road finds it very difficult to see back down Leasowe Road to look for the very small amount of traffic which continues in the left hand lane (most of it moves over to the right to clear this exit). All it needs is simple raod markings to move Leasowe Road traffic outwards as it goes under the bridge. Again why do they allow traffic proceeding towards Wallasey from the various Leasowe exits to turn right in contravention of the highway code. They should put a roundabout at Leasowe Castle then stop all right turns.
The speed limit proposal is easy to support, if traffic goes more slowly it must have fewer accidents. So if doesn't move at all it won't have any accidents. Must be right. The Yanks tried this, reducing the speed limits that is, but saw no significant reduction in accidents.
Fender Lane is a good example of a speed limit wrongly applied: now we have a two lane dual carriageway on which no one can decide which lane to drive in so some takes the outer lane at 38 all the way, some dirve at 40 in the inner lane, so undertaking. It is just a total waste of a road.
Speed bumps do damage cars, they do not slow down the racers either.
I just give up- blanket speed limits are just a muddled attempt at sorting out in-effective road layouts.

I would much rather have 20mph limits in residential areas than speed bumps, which are a regular pain in the suspension. On the estate where I live, anyone doing more than 20mph is asking for trouble anyway. It really isn't safe especially in summer, with parked cars, children playing (yes, children do still play outside, they're not all on computers!) etc.

I was being sarcastic.