just been informed the site children have rights in society has been closed down because jhon venables name and photo was published to the media threw the site.people need to no who the the kiddy fiddlers are and child murderers. this was a good site for finding thease dirty kiddy fiddlers out i believe it was on the local radio news about closing the site down anyone else heard anything about this closing down.

It's all very well publishing this stuff but errors are made sometimes and innocent fellahs get done over e.g. the paediatrist who got done over because the idiots who did him didn't have a clue what the word meant.

the people that got there names and photos placed on the children have need in sociaty site . have all been convicted and proven guilty before the eyes of a court. and there are no names that are on the register on the site that havent been fully checked out forbefore being convicted. and placed on there register so what happens to them when they get a good kicking like they deserve. just remember all the little kisd that thease dirty little skum have fiddled with or even killed. the site was a help to all the people that looked to see where the little ... lived.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

It should have been closed a long time ago.

Edit: 403 Forbidden does not = traffic issues.

Its still there. Its got server issues due to the volume of traffic atm

hi just tried about 4 diferent links and keeps coming up saying forbidden can you send the link thanks i heard this was on the local radio news saying its to be closed down. i heard about this off a neaighbour about it closing down

That's cause the permissions have changed on the index. It's not a problem with traffic.

Could be they've just taken the site down to obey a court order while it's decided what will happen with it in the future.

Why are you against this site? I've never been on it so don't know anything about it really, but it sounds like it could be useful for parents

dont you wish to what kiddy fiddlers was in or even in live in your area?? wouldent you like the oppertunity to keep the little ones safe from the dirty little bas----s who fiddle with little children.if u dnt care about them well maybe its time you did the site kept us the public informed about who the dirty little ckum kiddy fiddlers are. so we can atleast try to protect our children against the ... out there.

Why should it have been closed down long ago, what do you have against this site.

Okay so a lot of the information is from other sites, but bringing it all together in one place is useful.

The site gives information, you seem to have a huge problem with the SOR, and (in a previous post) said that it didn't exist when you were a child and you were okay, maybe so, but not EVERY child is going to be abused, or saved, the SOR is about being aware, and knowing where people with this behaviour trait are.

We are now a "Big Society", we help each other, we work together, and part of that is keeping everyones children safe, if we don't know who from you have to suspect everyone, and that doesn't make for a Big Society it makes for an ugly one.

As TheDR said, I've already bitched about this site in that other thread about Jon Venables.



Partly disagree. It's about keeping the police aware of who lives in a certain place so their behaviour can be monitored by the police (and councellors etc). It's not about the public knowing EXACTLY where people are that have served their time in jail and been released and what they look like. That serves no purpose except the promotion of violence from idiots that take the law into their own hands.

I disagree with that site because the owner is an obsessed vigilante with violence convictions. I disagree with it because he words those profiles of his extremely carefully with very suggestive language designed to make people worry, which is a bad thing.

Like I said in that other thread, if the government wanted there to be a public database of sex offenders, they would have provided one. They haven't because its a bad idea. Look at the amount of murders there have been in America because they publicise such information.

And yes, I do disagree with the SOR because it's pretty useless. Again look at the situation in America for a few easy examples.

i never read that thread where you was bitching .but lets put it this way then the yanks wouldent put up with them on the streets they would seek out revenge. as so would most of the people who are scared to let there children out in this world maybe with a couple of the dirty little shits geting a good kickig will teach the kiddie fiddlers out there that this country isnt going to sit on its arse and let them off with just a prison centence.the name and shame site was one of the best things that has happened to this country i myself would stick a brick over the head of a dirty child fiddler and watch his agony so would most of the people on wiki

CHRIS will be back up and running about 6pm today, thats what he says on facebook.

Lets be honest about this site. All the people on it have been convicted and the name published in the regional papers. Chris has copied the details on a huge database so to speak so parents etc can check who is living in their area.

The site had never named anyone before who hadn't already been named in the press and the details were already in the public, it was designed to make life easier rather than looking at loads of different websites.

Some people say he is a vigilante but if that was the case he would never have named Venables new id he would have done what vigilantes do. He broke his own sites rules publishing these details and why I do not know, I do know that Venables broke his cover himself first telling his new friends his true id, once he done that I feel he doesn't deserve a new id he needs to learn to take responsability for his actions.

Chris has said he is going to publish the details of Thompson's new id and whereabouts in the coming days. I DO NOT agree with this and will message him to let him know. Thompson by all accounts of the info we hear has tried his best and may/possibly be leading a normal(ish) life nowadays and has not committed any new crimes under his new name.

We give adults second chances in this country so why not 10 year old's ? I do have strong views which briefly are, I would not have thrown the key away, I aggreed with the new id's, but I feel they were released too soon but also worry that moving them to an adult prison may well have been the wrong move so it left a status quo.

I only hope that Denise and Ralph and the new families are coping ok and they are the ones who I feel most sorry for.

i really think to be be honest that exo means ex offender is this the reason why your sticking up for the dirty child offenders as you dont seem to say a bad word against them....... you are only slagging down the c.h.r.i.s site why whats up are you on it is that why you want it closing ??? i say how i feel and i feel like your covering something up ...... how on earth can you stick up for people that interfear with children .. other people on this site is to scared to mention this but ime not ....

you seem very strange to me sticking up for all the dirty ... bags i disagree with the new ids as lets face it if you do the crime you have to do the time and not be given new ids like it or lump it thats my facts sorry if this offends you but you totally piss me off

Exo, is not sticking up for the sex offenders at all, he/she (sorry) Is saying that the CHRIS site can be a dangerous tool in the hands of some people. We don't want to live in a place were anyone can kill anyone because of what they read on the internet.

Now that being said, I think these, for want of a better word, scumbags deserve all they get, but in the wrong hands, the site could be dangerous.

Case and point, my mate's second name is Blanshard, and there was a child molester living in the area with name Blanchard, and people thought it was him because they only heard the name. And he was chased for days, do you understand why it's dangerous?

i can see were your coming from but if there is a picture to add to the name then what is the problem ... all that scary put on here was that the fact is that the chris site was not working or closed ... but someone found it rather funny by saying hahahahahahaha should of been closed down a long time ago .... well i dont bloody find it funny .... that the site is closed unlike some hopefully it should be back up and running at 6pm as some kind person stated .
still seems to me that exo is sticking up for the site closing and finds it rather funny that it has still seems very strange to me !!!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand the hahahahahahahahahaha bit, that I can't defend, but as for hoping it closes down, she wants it to close because it makes the streets more unsafe because you could get beaten up because of a mistaken identity from some drunks.

I think this website should stay up and running. Personally I think it's a cracking idea! If there are kiddie fiddlers living in your community then you have a right to know about it, especially fi you are a parent yourself. It seems the government are doing everything they can to help protect the offenders when it's the children that need protecting. I understand what some are saying about mistaken identity as this could cause harm unduly but there are so many horrorbags out there we do need the options to log on to a website that can fill us in on the whereabouts of these offenders. I dont like the term Ex Offender... Once an offender ALWAYS an offender. People who are not liking the website must have alterior thoughts!!!

hi bonzo sorry but it seems to me also that exo found this rather funny that the c.h.r.i.s. site was closed down you seem to no her as you seem to be speaking for her/him as far as ime concerned if the hahahahahaha wasnt posted then perhaps this person wouldent be gettin a bollocking off as it does seem funny the way he/she is sticking up for the lets get to the point. c.h.r.i.s is a verry helpfull site what pinpoints child fiddlers and suplyes picks and names. most people out there aint thick they look at the picks and keep an eye open to make sure that they dnt move into there comunity.and keep there kids safe thank god for c.h.r.i.s. site we now no to keep an eye open for thease dirty skumbags who should be wiped off the face of earth

See this?

This guy is why sites like this one shouldn't exist.

thanks nice one i totaly agree the dirty little skumbags

It's a useful tool but it shouldn't be bandied about to the world and his wife. People have the right to find out, but should only be allowed to look under strict supervision

'To make sure that they don't move into their community' The kind of people who sexually abuse anyone, let alone children don't deserve anything other than severe punishment. But what you're saying is, let's not let them live in a house, where they want to live, let's deprive them of their basic human rights, and I know this is a direct U-turn from what I was saying on the Bin Laden thread, but after what Ex0_ and Mattlfc were saying my way of thinking has been changed. If this is what you say the website is for, lets change it from CHRIS to North Korea

I thought if people needed a witchhunt they read the Daily Mail or the Sun. I'm glad it was taken down for it, it isn't up to one man and his web site.

The items on the site are all in the public domain, if you wanted to trawl through years of newspapers and records you can do, quite easily, but, just like the ancestory sites, this makes it a lot easier and many many times faster.

The guy who was beaten up because he worked in paediatrics, well for a start he wouldn't be on the site, so no point exists, secondly if people are THAT dumb no amount of control on release of information will help.

One of the points made was that someone of a similar name was followed for days because a name came out, well surely a site like this is of help to him, not only do they have names and details but pictures as well, okay so you could be REALLY unlucky and look like the person who's name you share, but how likely is that?

Nothing is 100% effective, the problem we have is that we know how many (ex)offenders have been hurt because of the SOR, what we can never know is how many children have been saved because of it, if the abuse never happens, if the life isn't ruined or taken away, we will never know. Make sure it works and deal with mistakes as a priority, or just hide in the sand and see nothing.

ALL sex offenders, not just peado's, should be shipped off to a remote island somewhere and be left to do whatever they want to each other.

Wouldn't be too long before they started killing each other in sick sex acts e.t.c.

I ( as a father of 3 ) certainly don't want any within 100 miles of my kids.

Haven't made my mind up about the C.H.R.I.S. site yet - not been on it but from what I've read on here, it does sound pretty dangerous if the wrong "nutter" gets the wrong end of the stick about somebody who shares the same name as an offender.
On the other hand, I'll probably have a look at the site on Monday when it's back up for my own satisfaction that I don't know any of them - Won't be going around giving them a kicking if it turns out that I do though. They've served thier time and been punished - the arguement about whether they've been punished enough isn't down to "joe public" to decide.
The law states what happens to them and as has been said many a time, the law is an ass!!

If I win the Euromillions, I'll buy an island myself to ship them all to - then we can all live and relax without fear of them being around.

What about the basic human rights of the abused child? No one makes someone become an offender, they do it themselves voluntarily so they give up their rights as soon as they take away someone else's in my opinion! I don't agree with those websites though where innocent people end up getting beaten up or people are on there for statutory rape when they thought they were legal etc etc.

I'm sure the far greater majority of parents who have had their child abused agree with having the CHRIS site.

Yeah exactly, and if you've got kids and you're moving house then you should know about the area, why should an offender's identity be protected at the expense of another child being abused? The problem is people go round beating them up but again, no one makes someone abuse a kid so it's their own fault!

There's a name for this kind of fallacy.

Perhaps if that's the way you feel you should rally together the other paranoid parents and get the government to release a formal database, instead of supporting the tool at C.H.R.I.S who does it in the worst way possible.

Whether or not there should be a national database, is irrespective; I agree with ex0 that websites like this should be removed at the first instance; unless it is an official government website, the information provided can never be trusted, and thus there will always be the chance someone is attacked or even killed, simply because someone didnt like them, or they shared the same name, or even looked like an offender on the website.

They have a system in America (Megans Law or something like that) and the parents of Sarah Payne have campaigned for many years for a similar system in this country; that is the correct way to go about it, and I don't think there should be any unofficial sites lurking around giving potentially inaccurate and dangerous information to the general public. Personally, were such a site hosted on one of my services, id utilise my terms and conditions of service provision, to reserve my right to terminate the service and refund the monies paid, it's simply too risky to have websites like this on the net, and morally, well it would not sit comfortably knowing that someone had been/could be injured or even killed, simply because of a mistake on a website such as this, that I was supporting.

As far as Im aware, having been out of the formal Child Protection field for a couple of years now- there is a form of Sarah's Law available.
A concerned adult may approaach police with their suspicion/query, and within Data Protection guidelines, they can be told a yes/no answer as to whether that person has any sex crime convictions.
So technically, a young mum could discreetly ask whether her new boyfriend had a murky past she should know about etc. All that would be given is a yes/no answer, once the request has gone through official channels.
This system may not be 100% foolproof but does limit the chance for error or vigilante action against an innocent party.

And last I heard, Thompson was living quietly somewhere with an older male partner who was aware of his past and was willing to accept him for the person he is now today.
So, maybe one success for rehabilitation, and one failure.

anything that safeguards children from dirty perverted individuals is great in my book...well done C H R I S for highlighting and naming and shaming these pieces of .......

children have rights in society and so do parent and carers..to ensure all reasonable steps are carried out to PROTECT innocent children...

as for the comments regarding the police/govt body plz dont make me laff ...there was 14 missed opportunities from social workers, police, doctors, health visitors, teachers etc that could of saved victoria climbie's life....it is due to her that we have amendments to the childrens act 2004...and the every child matters framework....

the govt bodies failed victoria and baby p...the govt bodies are a joke

i'm a bit confused by your attitude to this, are you trying to say that child abuse doesn't realy happen as often as people think?

Let me put this to you then mate, I know for a 100% fact that were you are (wall village/Licard way) there is a convicted nonce. Im not sure how I stand with regards to the law as I dont think his name or story was published in the paper so I wont give his name to you, as much as it would give me sheer pleasure to out him in here as he is a MAJOR member (Forum Addict)of this WIKIWIRRAL forum. What I will say is this, he abused two 11 year old boys and was served with a HEFTY sentence of wait for it folks......30months. He served just under 20 months and has to sign the register for life. How the hell is that justice? The two 11 year olds he abused are now adults and one of them has been suffereing from depression for the best part of 15 years to a point were he tried commiting suicide twice and will probably be on anti depressants for the rest of his life. It also stopped him working and after 12 years is finally coming off sickness benefits to work for himself.
So tell me, has the dirty little barstard served enough punishment? Are you happy that he probably see's your kids everyday and maybe even taken a photograph of them? (He takes pictures by the way. That is a FACT)
This dirty little nonce barstard has a lot of people fooled in these forums and other forums too. No one I assume, knows his past and seem to think he's a swell guy. Well, he isnt. He is pure evil. Believe me, I wouldnt want to kill him. That is too quick. A damn good kickin would do it but it would have to be everyday for the rest of his life until he had enough then ended it himslef. Not before his business goes under and his friends and family who dont know about his past are informed just so he can have some mental anguish too. That I reckon would give me pleasure. Just.
God, I hope he reads this just so he knows that someone is on to him. And I also have proof by the way that gave his release date from prison and the name of the two lovely detectives that arrested, interviewed and charged him so what I am saying is not slander, bullshit or incitememt to violence. It is pure 100% FACT that can be backed up if im backed into a corner. Ive not gave away his name, so im legally correct (I think) in telling people what I am aware of.
Oh, its not EXO as far as im aware. JOKE exo before you get your knickers in a knot

tbh I reckon a lot of the judges who hand out leniant sentences are suspect. I genuinly feel sorry for the judge that gives a maximum sentence that he is ALLOWED to give but is accused of being suspect.
Case I know, the judge gave the absolute max he could give and told the dirty barstard that if he could have, he would have gave him a hell of a lot longer.
Its the law makers and who ever it is that makes the sentences to an equivalent of a petty crime sentence need to be looked at closely.

You would honestly lose sleep if a nonce was found with his throat slashed from ear to ear? who gives a shit if a few nonces get twatted or killed? I wouldnt. Id give the person who did it an alibi and put his name forwatd to be knighted.
Thing is with the C.H.R.I.S website is that every dirty barstard on there have been convicted and served and released from prison. There names were already in the public domain so whats the problem?
At the end of the day, if jimmy the perv from Wrexham moves to the wirral how the hell can we keep our kids safe without a website like C.H.R.I.S. The UK govt will never make a national database even though there has been some major cases in this country and the only people who seem to disagree with a need for a database is either the pervs themelves or 1960s hippy types who believe in LUUUUURVE maaaaaaan. fook That. Give me a baseball bat, a pitchfork and a burning torch any day of the week.

Another fine example of the kind of people that this website attracts.

ex0....look at it this way ...it attracrs ppl like born to die who give a shit about kids and their innocence and also attracts dirty nonce on here like born2die says without mentioning any names....

born2die very brave of u to mention this...paedos are everywhere ....knocks me sick....and you are not alone iin your vigilantist ways towards nonces....they need torturing

Still I dont get what the fuss is about surrounding the general use of the CHRIS website. Apart from him letting Venables new identity out every other person named on the site has been reported either in the national or local press.

It is not a place where people are put up on the site by rumour and all cases already exist on the internet if you look. It is simply a site that copies and pastes stories onto one site so worried parents/parteners can check if someone has been named and shamed alreday rather than seaching google for hours on end.

It also has countless advice section like spotting early signs, how to cope and where to turn for extra help plus many more advice sections. As a parent I do look and would never go and confront the sick evil perverts but at least I know who to look out for in my local area to help keep my kids as safe as possible.

I DO NOT know why he choose to name Venables new identity, personally I feel we DO HAVE A RIGHT to know who he is as rehabillitation obviously DID NOT work wheras with Thompson it seems to have so I would let him have his annominity if he stays clean for the rest of his life.

the problem Diz is that people like exO believe these nonces have there human rights and think WE are too dangerous to know were they live and breath.
when people were making suggestions about exO last night i was ALMOST about to stand up for him/her. After reading there ignorant comment before, then I have my doubts on this person as well.
ex0, I am glad abuse hasnt affected you, seriously, but if it had then I reckon you would change your opinion on a few things.

@rocketqueen, dont get me wrong, im not a vigilante. There has been a few cases were innocent blokes have been targeted and had the shit kicked out of them because A - they look like said nonce B - They share a simmilar surname or C - Nasty fuckers have spread rumours about them and it is a shame but I am in full support of the C.H.R.I.S website. There info is precise and already in the public domain. Credit to them for trying to keep all public records in the one site but someone high up as seen it as either a tool for good people to kick the shit out of the nonces or the people high up have another agenda.
anyway, love your name. Step daughters going to see guns 2 roses in few weeks. there supposed to be shit hot.

Never said I agree with it - think you need to re-read my post again.

I hate them just as much as the next person, all I said was I hadn't made my mind up as to whether or not sites like that are a good idea.

I agree, they can never be punished enough - just not sure it's down to us as vigilantes.

http://www.chris-uk.org/
Back online now for all us paranoid parents to check out...I cant think why anyone would not want you to know this information...

That's interesting, he's switched his hosting to Texas to try and get around the injunctions passed in the UK lol.

why you laughing?hmmm ok.

It's pretty amusing that he's abusing a loophole to keep his site up, given that its technically illegal in the UK

As long as he's able to get his message out , thats the main isnt it hey???

agree with another toffeenose here

ewww. your not a bluenose are ya? bloody hell, you lot only appear when you win a game (thanks for that as well by the way. Spurs slipped up yesterday too so there is tiny tiny chance we can sneak that 4th spot thanks to the mighty blues.

behave urself born2die...yep blue n true lol....i dont follow it much tbh x

It seems to me, that the ones who support this man are either mentally dull, or they havent done their homework. The times I've heard people say "I support Chris, but i havent looked at his site yet". Well, he's playing with people's lives here, people are going to get hurt and killed, so DO your homework now for goodness sakes!

Chris Wittwer is a THREE TIMES convict of violence. For all you people praising him, you seriously need to educate yourselves some more. The lies poor out from Wittwer and most of his gang aswell. Paedophiles can't be guilty of thought can they? Well, that's exactly what society has done to them. The likes of these thugs stirring up hatred and causing a fearfull society, care more for themselves than they do for children. The absolute root of his campaign is hatred and violence, and he will NOT last. He calls paedophiles (those with a preferential attraction to pre-pubescent children): 'monstrous killing perverts'. Check him out properly, and unless you lack intelligents and common-sense, you should see him for the thug he is. What we have here, is an acceptance of 'violence and vigilantism'. Children will NOT be thanking us for this in the future. We have a duty to children to protect Human-Rights.

Perhaps you need to search properly, so try the key-words: "chris wittwer, violent, football hooligan" and see what you get. Check out his site and look for transparency. Whats the sense of him listing 'weird perverts' as a category, when they're not paedophiles, child abusers or even sex offenders!? This site has a link for children, and this is what greets them. Get real folks, this is a repeat performance of 'gay-bashing', and we clearly learnt diddly-squat from that! Carefull about your morals until you have learned so much about it, you can say you have a qualified opinion.

I decided to use one of his videos and put my comments to it. Does it not wreak of violence and egotism to you? Can you spot any lies that I didnt spot? He is just what society needs to prove why naming and shaming by hooligans, perhaps isnt a quite a good idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA_LyKH5jWc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPOEILWh7Wc

His violence:

http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/W...igan/article-3074470-detail/article.html

Look at his latest speech, and imagine he was linked to a lie-detector. The machine would probably burn out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytujydgD4CI

Other reasons why i think the C.H.R.I.S and the 'peado-hunt' is tearing up societal values:

http://facebookwatcher.blogspot.com/2011/05/chris-wittwer.html

http://www.asexuality.org/en/index.php?%2Ftopic%2F56607-i-feel-sorry-for-paedophiles

http://www.cjat.org/ipb/index.php?showtopic=476&st=80

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqZ3b10KjBc

http://mwillett.org/mind/paedophilia.htm

I honestly would have chosen a better user name before posting that

I think I know who exposer is and there NOT from oxford. Only signed up today and the first post was this.
I dont think its exo either. I think its the person I was talking about, before people jump on poor exo's back.

Nice information, pity that your talkin through your arse though. Not many people give a shovel of shit if he has a history of violence as long as hes not a nonce which he seems not to be. And as for your defence of "thought isnt illegal", well your right but neither is the thought of hanging these dirty blood sucking life draining ... of the planet either.
The less paedos the better. In fact, I go with what someone put earlier. Transport EVERY pervert off to a remote island and leave them there. No food, no water, no internet. Let them catch there food and drink the salt water surounding there scummy arses. If theres no food to catch, have a helicopter drop a small parcel of food and let the world see via webcam how they fight for that small parcel. Now THAT is reality TV i would watch.
And you wanna know what you can do with there human rights? Shove em. Were is Sarah Payne and Victoria Climbies human rights? Each of these girls would have been 20 years old this year and maybe had there own little familys so take your pro paedo rubbish and shove it before i DO tell everyone who I think you are. Knob.

I don't care if he's been convicted of violence. I care about the rights and protection of chidren. If you place the human rights of child molesters and perverts before those of the children, you're the monster.

You're showing your stupidity. Again, people like you are the reason why this site shouldn't exist. Does anyone that disagrees with you become this fictional person that you think posts here?

fictional? hmm ok.
idiots like you are whats wrong with this country, not people like chris who whilst not the most decent person on the planet if his convictions are to be believed, but he does have a heart and is more human than the ... you seem to be defending.
what I can see is he is doing what most people in this country believe in. exposing and naming n shaming the nonces. Good on him. If a few nonces are frightened, then send them round here to my place. I got a nice 2x4 that will wipe there tears away for them. "aww, you fwightened mr pedo? do you want me to wead you a story? awwww, didums.Meet my friend. you like children. how about you meet my good mate WOODY"
Please. give me a break.

too right capt. human rights my arse.
Love to know what ... like this thought of poor Sarah Paynes human rights.

For those with smutty minds: I do not expose my genitals to the general public. I used the name because i expose Chris Wittwer for being the psychopath that he is.



Born2hate, i think would have been a better fitting name for you. Everytime your mouth runs away with you on the internet, it stays. There are laws against the incitement of murder, maybe you'll be on a list for investigation in the near future? Now you've aired your torture fantasies of paedophiles, perhaps think about this:

I would much rather have sexual thoughts about children, than to have murderous ones of people who didn't hurt anyone.
Little Sarah Payne was killed by a psychopath, and his sexuality could have been anything. He didnt kill her because he was a paedophile anymore than a man kills another man because he is gay. Please see the logic there. Her mother, Mrs Payne, marked the beginning of England's paedo-hysteria when she was allowed to attack a group of people who played no part in her daughter's death. She should NEVER have been allowed to do that. Sex offenders or paedophiles are not killers by default; thats an illusion and only witch-hunters believe it. Monsters don't actually exist by the way.



Why don't you care that he's a violent thug? Why does this major detail not cause alarm bells for you? How can a person demonise and threaten a group of people for their *thoughts*, when he himself is guilty not only of violent thoughts, but also violent actions. *Actions* is what counts right? If you think every/average paedophile has molested a child, where are you getting your information from?

I joined this forum because i wanted to have my say about this man, is that not allowed? Let me continue then, because i have much to say without resorting to thug-speech...(Born2die)

On the follwing link, Chris Wittwer gives his 'truthfull' explaination as to what paedophilia is. I am still to see his credentials for claiming expertise on the subject. It goes like this....
http://www.chris-uk.org/the-real-truth-about-paedophilia


IF 3 years of profiling sex monsters has proved one thing to me it is this:
Paedophiles are incurable because I believe it is not a illness or mental disorder, they do it by choice !

For something to be 'incurable', there must first be an "Illness or mental disorder' to be cured. One does not 'choose' an illness or mental disorder.
This 'expert' claims paedophiles are sex monsters. Since when was 'monster' used in a professional study of a mental condition? Since when was paedophilia simply an act? I don't need to prove that its primary definition is that of an attraction, but if action is a crime, you are making the attraction a crime too by referring to it with the same name.

I am sick of hearing the excuses Paedophiles give for abusing our vulnerable and innocent children and I want society as a whole to stand up and show how disgusted we are.
Whatever the do-gooders and the well-meaning say, the sick desires of these people will NEVER go away.

I could easily say in return, that: "Whatever the do-gooders, the well-meaning, the anti-paedophile vigilantes, the law makers or the media say, the 'natural' desires of these people will NEVER go away."

And child killers, like the man who has so dreadfully murdered little Sarah Payne, are the most dangerous of all.

Why did he talk of child killers? Was it because that little girl was raped before-hand? That's not solid evidence this man was a paedophile, its evidence he was a psychopath, as the 'desire to harm' is not related to paedophilia in its true form.

If they have killed once, abused a child or view indecent images, they will do it again if they think they can get away with it – and they always believe they will. The re-offending rate of a convicted paedophile is estimated at around 70 %

'Killed' is straight forward, 'abused' can be a grey area, and indecent images now includes 'Normal and decent' with 'thought' being the deciding factor. His claims of statistics are never backed up with indisputable evidence....never. Where are these studies?

Which makes it even more bewildering to most police officers is that this type of criminal should ever be even considered for release.
They are the most evil and depraved of killers and once caught they should never taste freedom again. Not least because, like all paedophiles, they don’t really believe they have done anything wrong…

I believe we're still on the subject of paedophiles, but now he refers to them as "the most evil and depraved of killers". If an average paedophile was to kill a child, it would likely be a traffic accident, and the chances of that are the same as for anyone else (possibly even lower). If I raped and killed a child, and claimed i was doing no wrong, I would invite someone to shoot me, wouldn't you?

A lot of those who I have profiled are behind bars have been serving their third or fourth prison sentence.
There are many who have been treated by sex offenders’ programmes and the results have been completely unsuccessful.
And all the mental health professionals I have spoken to agree with me that paedophilia is one condition for which there is simply no reliable cure.
‘These vile perverts don’t believe they have done anything wrong’

Any mental health professional saying ‘These vile perverts don’t believe they have done anything wrong’, should be struck off the list and banned from working in mental health indefinitely.

I’m tired of seeing child molesters repeatedly going back to prisons for the same sickening crimes. And its not just men, a alarming rise in female paedophilic activity has seen a rise in convictions over the past few years.

'An alarming rise in female paedophilic activity' is not the reason for a rise in convictions, its the laws and moral-panic in society that's causing that.

Many of those I have profiled have been convicted of assaulting many, many children, and rarely is a paedophile case isolated to one victim. In interviews, some have admitted sexually abusing 40 or 50 children – even as many as 100 – before they were caught and sent to jail for the first time.

Many of those he lists are offenses where no assault on a child took place. He even lists offenses where the age of the 'victim' was post-pubescent, thus disqualifying it from being called paedophilia. He lists those that are suspected or charged but not convicted, contrary to his numerous claims of only listing the convicted. They're all 'paedophiles and perverted ...' in C.H.R.I.S's eyes.

If a middle-aged paedophile is jailed for assaulting one child, the chances are that he has a lifetime’s history of offending – it doesn't start up overnight.
Their perverted instincts usually develop in late adolescence or early adulthood. If a paedophile is caught for the first time when he is 50, I guarantee that he has molested dozens of youngsters every year of their adult life.

If a 50 year old paedophile is 'caught' for the first time, its most likely to be for 'picture looking', but this 'child protector' does not differentiate between that and molestation, which leaves me no choice but to assume he'guarantees' that ALL caught 50 year old paedophiles have molested dozens of youngsters every year of their adult life. What a crock of cow pat.
So, his 'guarantee' is nothing of the sort. I don't believe he has any qualifications or credible research to guarantee anything. I could make more of a 'guarantee' and say that Chris (the man who runs this project) is likely to hurt many more people in his life, despite given chance after chance. I could equally make a 'guarantee' and say that a 50 year old thug caught for the first time, has assaulted dozens of people every year of their adult life. This man is a few years away from 50, but his victims of violence and hatred are clearly stacking up against him.

One offender had been in prison twice previously and on his third term was serving 10 years. He was being treated under a sex offenders’ rehabilitation programme and undergoing therapy sessions.
He was about 45 and had consistently gone after young boys aged between 10 and 14.
I wanted to know whether he thought he would be able to stay away from children when he was eventually released. “Will you ever be cured of your desire for young boys?” I asked him.
“let me put it this way. If you had been caught having sex with a woman and were put in prison for that and they tried to treat you to turn your attention away from adult females and focus it instead on young boys, would you successfully bridge that gap?”
When I said no, he pointed out that it was the same way for him.

He said that the best he and all the paedophiles in that prison could do was to try to stay away from kids. “They will never reach the point where they are not interested in young boys and girls. They will always have sexual fantasies about children and enjoy looking at child abuse images,” he explained.
I think his reply gives a pretty accurate description of men like him. He gave me an honest reaction.
Paedophiles are undoubtedly the most difficult to treat of all offenders.

Asking him if he thought he would be able to stay away from children when he was eventually released'', was the proposed question. That is not the same as the actual question asked: “Will you ever be cured of your desire for young boys?” The answer to that question was honest and very common, but he was NOT saying he will abuse again. Most 'Child abuse images' in its present form, are pictures of happy healthy children showing of their beauty, it is NOT molesting them or taking their 'innocence' away. Most of these pictures do NOT depict acts of sex, but they are said to be molested when a paedophile looks at them. To talk about innocent until sex, is saying sex is a sin, surely (make you sure you have teeth in when you say that). Why do we teach children that? Why do you believe you were 'innocent' until you had your first sexual experience?
I just don't see the promoting of children's rights here, i see a very unhealthy trend towards child repression that is already devastating the lives of many young people in western societies, especially the USA, and I see a trend towards hatred, intolerance and anarchy.

There have been treatment programmes where some mental health experts have cited certain success rates, but they are rare. Across the board there is no reliable way of reversing the base instinct of these people and turning their interest away from children.
I have yet to talk to one who said his obsession started in later years. It is a sinister development that starts very early in life – even in pre-adolescent years.

'I have yet to talk to one', actually, he's not interested in talking or debating it, as his responses to polite criticisms have been nothing but bullying and troll-like. Perhaps put him to the test, and see what help he can offer you as a paedophile while regarding you as a 'monstrous killing pervert'. Any one who claims to have knowledge and strives to learn, does not choose a subject such as 'monstrous killing perverts', as that's nothing but terrorism and sounds like the chanting of a medieval witch-hunter.

It seems that paedophiles often start out by favouring younger boys and girls as playmates and later, tragically, those same young children become their victims.
People who kill for sexual gratification have been thinking about it from a very early age.
But not every person who fixates about having sex with children wants to hurt them. Some do it because they genuinely think they love a child.
Paedophiles do not generally cross the line and become killers. But those who have violent thoughts are the real danger and they WILL eventually live out their fantasies.

Could that last statement possibly stink any greater of hypocrisy?
The man behind 'C.H.R.I.S' would certainly know about that, with his long history of violence! Suddenly though, all the non-violent paedophiles cease to be the 'real danger'?!
People who kill children for sexual gratification shouldn't be labeled paedophiles, as their paedophilic attraction played no part in the killing. If an adult attracted homosexual killed someone of the same sex, he wouldn't be labeled as gay, but rather a 'killer and rapist'.
When we talk about 'crossing the line', our governments have made laws that; not only fantasizing over an image of a child is considered 'crossing the line', but simply having the attraction is aswell. Why else are ALL paedophiles regarded as criminals? They are, and is why we have terms such as 'convicted/suspected paedophile'. 'C.H.R.I.S' has moved this 'line' to killing, but why did he do that? He wants people to believe that paedophiles by nature of their sexuality, do actually have killing fantasies.

These are the most dangerous type of paedophile. But there is no easy way of spotting these people until it is too late
They can be seen hanging around schools and in places where children go. There is little the police can do about this as they have not committed a crime at that point.
‘Some do it because they genuinely think they love a child’
Society has a role to play when they are released.
But in reality it is almost impossible to watch them all the time, and there are so many of them.
Treatment is very ineffectual. Paedophiles are usually better when their lives are going well and they have a job and something to live for.

Indeed, so is the idea behind 'C.H.R.I.S.'; to prevent their lives from going well, and attacking their will to live on behalf of 'The Society'? Well, the flavour of this unsavoury project would seem to suggest so. Seeing as its an acknowledged fact that most abuse takes place at home and within the family, we are hereby told they are "hanging around school gates". If people started visiting school gates to hunt paedophiles, then the police really would have a problem on their hands. As for problematic paedophiles loitering around schools, I don't think its ever been (or is) a major issue.

But when they hit problems and their lives start to fall apart, that is when they go out seeking a children once more. When their self-esteem goes right down, we are back to the way they were before any treatment.
We are stuck with these people and there is practically nothing we can do about them. We all have to keep vigilant – our children need us to protect them.
But most of all we must face up to the fact that these evil perverts NEVER change. They will be dangerous until the day they die.
This is why I object to the European courts ruling over “life” orders on the sex offenders register being allowed to appeal !

When paedophiles hit problems, they are much more likely to seek help rather than to abuse children.
I have to say though, when a violent person (like the one behind this project) is worshipped and regarded as a 'hero', who will no doubt gain tremendous amounts of self esteem as a result, and yet is STILL carrying out acts of violence, i wonder what would happen if THIS man was to hit problems himself and develop low self esteem!... I wouldn't like to speculate. Perhaps he's permitted to do this as therapy to control his own desires, i can confirm it's not working.
Society is 'stuck' with paedophiles, he is right, and at present there is no 'wonder cure'. Fighting paedophiles as 'monstrous killing perverts' will NEVER be the correct solution. Humans are supposed to be civilized in the 21st century, but there is nothing civilized about joining in with the scapegoating of paedophiles. It has to stop until we have more answers. Education will begin when the hate stops, Let's address the hate now please.

Paeophilia is everywhere in society, within religion, scouts, parents etc… the list is endless, but we must unite to show the goverment we as survivors of this abuse will not be overlooked.
We will never stop paedophiles, but what we can do is spread awareness, educate the adults and children alike on internet grooming and paedophilic techniques. Just knowing the signs can prevent contact and thus not lead to the child being exposed.
Awareness + Knowledge = prevention

Paedophilia isn't the danger in society, danger itself is. The stink-along song from 'C.H.R.I.S.' is to suggest that sexual abuse is all that matters, and as long as you prevent your child from being a victim of it, and demonise some paedophiles on the way, you are then a proud parent regardless of any personal neglect of your own children. I would say the ones who shout this hate the loudest, are likely the most abusive towards their own children.
Fear + Ignorance = Victimization.

So that's ~C.H.R.I.S's REAL Truth About Paedophilia~. Would you say its to doctorate level? Would a doctor of psychology with years of research into paedophilia say "hear hear" or "WhatTheFuck!"?

well ex0 and ESPECIALLY exposer you have now changed the way i think and feel, my life has had an about face so much so that tomorrow i'm popping off to prison to see the family member who abused me repeatedly from the age of 5 to 17 and give him a great big hug, tell him he shouldn't be kept in prison and campaign for him to be released, in fact i'm going to demand he should be released and never have to be on any register.

i'm going to stop working with people who were abused as children, after all it was their own fault for "being provocative" and so many of them never actually said "please don't do that to me"



NOW TO BE SERIOUS...

i do not care that people think the chris web site is a bad thing, if however it is a bad thing and should not be allowed then the media should not be allowed to report on cases of sexual abuse. a paedophile KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG...FACT

here is my plan that i had to kill my abuser, i knew how to get to his house without being seen by any cctv cameras, i have several petrol cans at my garage so i wouldn't bee seen by anyone buying a petrol can and filling it with petrol. he lived in a corner house at the end of a cul de sac that was quiet and dark so no real chance of being seen by anyone.

i was going to torch his house with him inside, go home and sleep like a baby. why didn't i do it? BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS WRONG and there was a chance of the neighbouring house being burnt down as well and i would not wish to harm an innocent person.

p.s.
Should you reveal any of his lies on his facebook group, or even ask tricky questions, you are very quickly shown the door along with your posts. He doesn't do questions, as "you're either with him, or against him". Thats fascism, and this guys heading for jail; have absolutely no doubt about that.

I am glad you didn't murder anyone. If you were to go to prison tomorrow and give your abuser a hug, it maybe the best thing you've done for a while. You are encouraged to hate your abuser, but also a huge group of people that nobody can say all abuse children. Your reponse to me suggests you have not understood anything ive said or the links i provided. If victims should blame anyone, it should be their abuser only. Please understand the term actually means a sexual attraction, very similar to other orientations. This one happens to be abuse if practiced, but that alone doesn't prevent paedophiles existing. The idea of C.H.R.I.S is to hunt paedophiles (thats where it's obsession lays), but he uses *Child Protection* as a ways and means to do this. If we are to look at any pro-active affects of his campaign, then its to "Prevent sexual abuse with fear". Now i dont know about you people, but when a deterrent for potential criminals (that includes everyone) is an angry mob and not the law, and the victims of abuse get their therapy from angry vigilantes and not professional therapists, then we are heading for disaster.

Do remember, while society reacts so emotionally and aggresively to child sexual abuse, at the same time in complete ignorance, many boys(not girls) are being sexually mutilated with knives for no other reason than desire of the parents. It's deemed perfectly ok to do this still (even though scientific research strongly suggests its most often harmfull), but should a person have a sexual *thought* about a child (read up on controlling of mental thoughts) or have this thought while looking at an image of a child (now a crime), then society suddenly desires blood. Is this about sexual perversion in greater society, or is it about caring for children? You have many hours ahead of you if you ever want to claim you have good understanding about this subject; it's incredibly complex.

exposer....as for your comment " If you were to go to prison tomorrow and give your abuser a hug, it maybe the best thing you've done for a while."....you absolutely appal me and i will be reporting you....

to condone sexual orientation towards children is vile and sickening and you are nothing but a foghorn for paedos

Born2die was the one joking about it right? Those who forgive move on in their lives...fact.
How can one 'condone/condemn' any sexual orientation? You just plan to treat those attracted to children as sub-human ..., for your children and their children to continue with in life? Hate is a very bad thing, and if you encourage your children to hate, regardless of the group or minority, then you are guilty of child abuse yourself. I want to know what the plan is. Is it really to *create awareness* as Chris claims? Google "paedophile hysteria" to realise it's alive and well in this country, including the US. I could show you plenty of stories of the hysteria harming children.

Hatred & Violence is not the answer; never has been, and never will be. I am honoured to know that.

Go ahead, report me, if it soothes your conscience

I still think if all the facts are true and it's been serious or they're a repeat offender etc then yeah sites like this are justified, but after actually having a look at the one you're all talking about it does seem more like a ranting blog but I don't think offenders' rights should be protected over children's (but only if there's been a crime, not just the thought of it!), and I definitely don't think you should go and give your abuser a hug!

"I joined this forum because i wanted to have my say about this man, is that not allowed? Let me continue then, because i have much to say without resorting to thug-speech".."exposer"....

there is a difference between having your say , and pushing your pro peadophile propaganda....i seriously think you are one, you play down the impact of child abuse , even admitting rather being one than a football hooligan , and attack Sarah Paynes mother for something or other .... classic signs ...you need removing..

I believe Exposer is really exposing himself here for what he really is. Do you realise the type of people you are defending? They aren't people they are animals. "give your abuser a hug, it maybe the best thing you've done for a while" what kind of sick person are you? You are defending men like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C802Z5IIKH4 and i think there can only be one reason for it!

i'm sorry but i have to say (and excuse the language if it offends anyone) but what a load of fooking crap!!!

i have no feelings whatsoever towards my abuser, i do not hate him. i have realised that hatred was consuming me and making the abuse continue long after the physical side had stopped.





i looked at the links you posted, from what i can gather i am meant to feel sorry for people who have a sexual interest in children, PRICELESS
yes a victim, i don't like the word by the way, should only blame their abuser but surely it is understandable that they can and will blame a lot of other people as well?
anyone who tries to compare this attraction to a normal sexual orientation is insulting just about everyone who has any form of sexual attraction, regardless of the orientation m/f m/m f/f etc.




sorry but the way i read "you people" smacks of 'i've got lots of qualifications, read lots of books and therefore am better than you'
you're doing a great job of creating hostility towards yourself and creating a 'pro paedo' image.




i have had dealings with and spoken to other people who have spoken to 'proffessional therapists' and have heard some fantastic things they have said. the most recent one was "well it's quite understandable why people did that to you as you are a good looking lad"


i know it is complex and therefore you also have many hours ahead of you as well.

on that note you will have to excuse me as i am off to spend the day helping people who have been abused and hopefully make a little bit of a difference.
would be nice if i got paid for it

I've read this thread with interest and kept quiet but i have to say something now. I have a convicted paedophile in my immediate family. He was cut off a long time ago, and we have nothing to do with him but he has undergone numerous "therapies" while in custody (more than once)over the years and every time he has been released he has offended again . He'll never change and he admits it himself, as it put it, why should he, he doesn't see anything wrong in what he does and it's the way he was made.It's in his chemical makeup .
He's very eloquent, rather like exposer and talks himself a good excuse and of course he can show remorse at the proper time because he's not sociopathic or psychopathic and he knows right from wrong and that there are people who fall for his speile every time because they want to believe he can be helped,but thats all it is, an excuse because he knows its wrong and does it because he enjoys it. I don't agree with exposers "give em a hug" i'd like to slit his throat and kick him into a gutter because i've sat and listened to him go on about how hard it is to be him and have his life, There was no remorse for his "child victims" and they were victims , he picked them very carefully, don't be fooled these people do it randomly they have a set pattern they work to and Exposer, "thought is more innocent than deed" don't give me that shi t. Thoughts like this are always a pre-cursor to the deed it's just a matter of how long it will take and Picture looking and fantasising always leads to worse with this type of person, they don't see it as an alternative but an excitement. Your pro-paedophile speach is appalling and very confusing as from my experience it seems to be the rantings of an abuser trying to convince both himself and others that he's not a monster. Well I think there ARE monsters and kiddie fiddlers are one of the worse scary types, because they wear human faces so well can never be "cured" and need locking up indefinatley for there own safety as well as the publics.
But no, i don't think the C.H.R.I.s site is good, i think it is another mans ego speaking to the masses and is dangerous in the extreme. It should be taken down and i agree with Ex0 why should he be allowed to flout the law, what makes wittner any different than anybody else whos commited a crime?

I'm honestly of the opinion that most of the people in this thread are incapable of thinking about this topic and putting their prejudices aside. Get away from the "protect the children!" frame of mind and look at the subject from every angle, I think everyone here wants to make sure kids are safe.

It's damn sad that you 4 (rocketqueen, davav, toffeenose, born2die) didn't even read most of what exposer wrote because you instantly jumped to the conclusion that he was a pedo. Takes a lot of courage (even on a forum like this where s/he anonymous) for someone to try and explain the things s/he is explaining.

I read everything, then when he said "you should give your abuser a hug it might be the best thing you have done in a while" and slated Sarah Paynes mother alarm bells started to ring. So what are we ment to do? hush the paedophile cases up and let them live anonymous life? Just pretend it doesn't happen? Get real will you!

.

Simply put and this is back to exposer, if I had the choice of a kiddie fiddler or a convicted murderer of a kiddie fiddler living in close proximity to me there is only one answer, and I would definatley take the murderer every day of the week.

Also you said there is nowt wrong with thinking about sexual attraction to kids, in my mind it makes you a sicck and a pervert who should be taking into a secure room just for even thinking about those vile things.

Let's not forget, you can not stop someone being a paedophile, the same as you can't stop someone being straight or gay, the difference is a paedophile knows it's wrong yet normally carries on making them a constant danger to children they think about, which from what I believe is like me a straight man would not want sex with every female but certain ones and they select certain children.

Does nothing of what exposer wrote worry you ????

Please people, can we not go down the road of 'if youre not shouting Hang Em all!' and waving a pitchfork, you must be one yourself?
To accuse someone of being a closet sex offender just because they are putting up an argument against vigilante action etc, does by no means make them a sympathiser or even a perpetrator.

This sort of topic is by its nature an incredibly emotive subject, but please no slurs or whispers.Otherwise it sounds like the curse of our generation, cyber bullying.

Some of the arguements have been more than just an anti CHRIS stance , and these have quite rightly been picked up and commented on by a lot of users...ok

The bit about nothing wrong with having sexual thoughts about children is truly worrying. Isn't that all how it starts? I don't know whether these two are just trolls but if they are serious it is really really worrying.

I suppose the same could be said about weed being a gateway drug, realistically it's just not always true. I suppose it's plausible that there could be people who would never take it any further than their thoughts.

I guess you could say in the same way as there's people who consider lynching/killing every known paedophile/sex abuser, but few actually do, because at the end of the day, they know right from wrong.

How complex, now we're talking about a right way to do wrong behaviour and a wrong way to do wrong behaviour

[/quote]Born2die was the one joking about it right? Those who forgive move on in their lives...fact.
[/quote]
I joked about what? Are you serious you fruit loop. I dont joke about anything to do with dirty nonces OR there sympathisers.
I could end up on a list for inciting violence? Hows that? All I said is what I would like done to them, pretty much what most "normal" people think and while were on the subject nonce lover, most "normal" people dont think sexually about children. We who have children would kill for them if someone tries to harm them. That is normal. It is human nature so take your pretend intelect and shove it.
Do you know who you remind me of when your talking of circumcision to boys? Jonathan King. He had a similar argument for muslim girls being circumsised a few years ago when he was defending his paedaphilia so you are very worrying.
And if what i am saying is wrong, then get the two of us against a wall and give a right thinking person with a .38 , 1 bullet and tell him he MUST plug either me or you. Give him the story of the person defending the rights of children (me) and the person defending the rights of the nonces (you). Now tell me, who do you think will be the one walking away from the wall happy as larry? thats right you tool, ME.
To compare paedaphilia with gay people is wrong. homosexuals do not hurt anyone with there thoughts and actions same as hetros.
A nonce however, does hurt people. He hurts the children and stops them from having any sort of decent childhood becasue most of the happy times of the childhood memorys are destroyed thanks to the abuser. The abused child as he grows up are left feeling confused, guilty, hurt, depressed, angry, violent and most times suicidal. There families are left ruined too. They are the ones that pick up the pieces and they end up feeling guilty and hurt.
Now Mr clever cloggs, still think paedaphilia is a thing we should just get on with?
I hope you left your email adress when you signed up here or your ip address is tracked, becasue never mind inciting violence, you my nonce loving friend have used your "intelligence" to spout pro paedaphilia support.
[censored].

Trolls i think , well , certainly one of them...the other is genuinely worrying

Now we are comparing the thoughts of a paedophile to the thoughts of a recreational drug user?

I think someone having thoughts of having sex with a child is alot diffrent to someone thinking about smoking a joint.

I think ex0 is an old hippy at heart with too much time on her hands. I know she believes paedaphilia is wrong dont you ex0, but she just doesnt agree with the mob mentality which is fair enough I suppose. I dont agree with her but thats what living in a democracy is all about. Some people like ex0 wouldnt understand the impact child abusers have on the abused. She is either childless or thankfuly never been a victim of abuse i think. If im wrong ex0, please tell us all so we can understand were you are coming from otherwise people will think your just sticking up for the nonces, wether thats right or wrong is up for debate but unless you tell us why you think the way you do.
Now Exposer is a different story. Hes one caged animal waiting to be released from his cage. I genuinly hope one of the mods have checked his email address and ip address because he needs an eye kept on him.

What good would that information be (it would take 2 seconds to set up a proxy, should the person wish to remain anonymous, setting up a spoof email address is even easier - I deal with the fallout of hackers and the like regularly and I can tell you, an IP address does not help you trace anyone with any IT knowledge, because its pretty simple to work around it), and how would the mods be able to "police" his behaviour off the forums?

Are you expecting them to go to local police station and hand in his IP address and email address, and inform them that they suspect he will commit a crime, or should be watched? The police might even pass it on to CEOP (if they can be arsed) but that's about all that will happen. The moderators are here to moderate discussion and liaise with members to help avoid and resolve problems, not to be on the lookout for paedophiles and the like. The forum allows open discussion (within set rules, which I cannot see any user has breached in this thread, thus far), and that is what enables any forum to exist and work effectively.

I know this may be hard for non-IT peeps to comprehend, but an the strengths of knowing someone's IP address on a public forum is not all it's built up to be, and an email address means nothing.

Way to miss the point entirely.

I was comparing the situations. You said that sex thoughts about children is how it all starts. I don't agree with that, I think some people can stop at that point. The same way that people that smoke weed (don't call it recreational like that makes it any less of a drug o.O) don't always end up doing heroin.

Basically you stated that because something can happen that inevitably means it will happen. I'm saying that's flawed logic and usually not true.

It is pretty funny when people on these forums claim that the mods have your IP and therefore have your address.

ok Matt, was only asking ffs.
Your not the only person in the world who runs a web forum so dont make out its such a drag to answer a simple question. No one as far as i know is asking you to police anything, just keep an eye on him.
I may be a newbie in here but im not a kid thats never used the internet either mate. I know a little about proxys and how easy it can be to swap ip address. I did it for a while on koptalk when they would boot me for using foul language. Bullsh!t really, but i couldnt sign up with a different name so i used an ip changer so it looked like i was signing in from argentina or china.

Just for the record, I don't run any web forum (though I have, in the past, moderated/administered various forums that I participate within, run by others).

[/quote]Way to miss the point entirely.

I was comparing the situations. You said that sex thoughts about children is how it all starts. I don't agree with that, I think some people can stop at that point. The same way that people that smoke weed (don't call it recreational like that makes it any less of a drug o.O) don't always end up doing heroin.

Basically you stated that because something can happen that inevitably means it will happen. I'm saying that's flawed logic and usually not true.[/quote]

Were did i "state" that? So are you basically saying its ok for somebody to think about abusing a child?

Yeah no one said that because something migt happen then it will. What part of 'parents should know if there are people about who could abuse their children' means child abuse happens so I assume it will? That is all anyone here has said so stop repeating your unfounded fallacy idea please!

Can't you guys read through a thread by yourselves? Less quoting = less wasted space = less to scroll through.

http://www.chris-uk.org/

Well lets put it plain and simple. If someone told you they was having thoughts about having sex with children would you leave your child with them? Also you didn't answer my question, so you are saying it is ok to have thoughts of abusing children? That is basically what you are stating!

That's a pretty good point, and the obvious answer would be no.

As Matt said, of course the answer would be no. With that said I wouldn't be wanting to kill the person either. Violence doesn't solve anything. Getting back to the point, that's what this website promotes, violence. Under the guise of protecting the children.

Not that it's unusual, there's more retarded laws we can attribute to protecting the children than basically anything else (excluding terrorism).

ex0 and exposer...the pair of you disgust me by the way you both are sympathetic towards paedos....i find you both extremely vile and i doubt either of you have children...as if you did you would understand that how sick we feel as parents not wanting our children to be part of a society where nonces walk and breathe

I never came here to upset anyone, but there's no way I'm going to keep quiet when there are people encouraging Chris Wittwer and his mob. HAVE YOU PEOPLE LOOKED PROPERLY AT WHAT THEY DO?!!

Check out his partner-in-crime, Bill Maloney. You will see they accuse people of being paedophiles with no proof what-so-ever. That includes the Queen (no joke!), Prince Andrew, Jimmy Saville and just about anyone who doesnt like the work they do. Watch Bill harassing Hariet Harmen in one video; very aggresive and thug-like. Did you look at the videos i edited? I was spoilt for lies to react to, how could you say otherwise? Do not take my word for it. Look for "pie n mash films", watch all their videos, and anyone with a rational mind will see they are all barking mad. What famous person is backing them...but David Icke! Say no more about the man who thinks the world is controlled by reptillian shape-shifters living on the moon! I happen to know the Wittwers of this county are very bad for society, so instead of calling me sick, appalling and vile, how about debating with me all the pros and cons of his campaign? I said lots on this thread, and i can carry on exposing the chaps lies. If all you can do is condemn me and call me a 'kiddy fiddling nonse', then you're missing my point. I have fiddled with no children, so dont lower yourself by accusing me of such things. Please do get through the links i provided, especially:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqZ3b10KjBc

http://mwillett.org/mind/paedophilia.htm


Paedophiles are indeed suffering a social injustice, because they are assumed to be child abusers and death is wished upon them everyday of their lives, how would you like that? It isnt a crime to be one, and it doesnt equal an ACTION, a selfish person or a dangerous person. There will be some that are good people, and some that are bad. That goes for every other group you care to mention. Finally, labelling people is bad in itself, but unfortunately, its human nature to pidgeon hole people and then throw mud at them. It happened to the Jews, the blacks, the gays, and im sure there are plenty of other groups that have had the same treatment.

If i felt safe to voice my opinions publicly, i would. The way we are at the moment, its deemed right to hate paedophiles, and therefore the thugs around us are likely to feel proud of killing a 'paedo'. Not a nice society we are creating for children is it?

Look at this blog from the USA.

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2009/09/there-is-fury-and-and-sadness-inside.html

"Paedophiles are indeed suffering a social injustice, because they are assumed to be child abusers and death is wished upon them everyday of their lives, how would you like that? It isnt a crime to be one,"

WOW! I'm speechless.

davaw same here...gobsmacked..furthur down when he says about publically is a real give away....knocks me sik

You say "it isn't a crime" to be a paedophile? Well im sure the world i live in it is. "some good people" are paedophiles aswell? Is that what you class yourself as one of the good ones? No paedophile is a good person, they aren't a person they are aniamals and deserve to be caged, I really do hope you are a troll.

Thing is, even if a paedophile is not actively going out and physically abusing children themselves, they are probably accessing material on the internet or other medium, which did involve a child being abused - i.e. images being taken by someone to purposefully feed a form of sexual deviance*.

Using the word 'deviance' in its true meaning. See Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM- IV)

You 2 are completely missing the point... once again.

S/he's saying that just because a person has sick thoughts does not make them a child abuser. There's people out there that are classed as pedophiles without having ever touched a child or done anything indecent to children but simply because of their thoughts.

That is true ^^ It's like saying if you were attracted to the same sex (well, men attracted to men) not so long ago that automatically made you a criminal, but it wouldn't have, it's the acting upon the thoughts that would make it illegal, thought crime doesn't exist.

That doesn't mean I think it's okay, but as far as I'm aware, being attracted to children was the same as being hetro or homosexual, it's not a choice and it can't be changed, correct me if I'm wrong!

I feel sick, really sick that two people believe these people/paedophiles should be shown even the slightest bit of understanding.

I use Chris but dont SUPPORT him or his friends, I simply use the site as a one stop shop to know who is in my area so I can protect my children, the day protecting my children will be the day I seriously consider leaving these shores.

Again I ask exo and exposer, given the choice would you sooner next door to a paedophile or someone convicted of killing a paedophile who messed with their children, I honestly can say I would choose the killer every time.

FLASH....whether the thoughts are acted upon or not ...IT IS STILL INTENT....it is still a very sick thing to even think about,,,,i am astounded by the vileness some ppl on here display.....i can and will never imagine a society that accepts sexual deviancy towards children as a norm....it will never happen....

Rocketqueen it's not intent, you can't have an intent if you don't intend to do something.

I did say afterwards that I don't think that makes it okay and I certainly didn't say I accept people who are attracted to children! I said that as far as I was aware it wasn't something that can be stopped, I don't see it as any different to people who think all child abusers should be killed. That can be considered 'vile' and in your eyes would automatically make them criminal, as murder is illegal. People who are attracted to children don't always act upon it, it's like saying you're a man attracted to women so of course you go round raping women, no you don't, you don't do anything. That's the difference between a child abuser and a pedophile.

there is no difference in my eyes no matter how many ppl try to gloss over this subject...as miss g already said...whether someone acts on it or not...children have been used for their vile perversions whether in the flesh, internet, publications or wateva else....the innocence of children must be paramount...

I get your point flash but being attracted to your own sex is not in the same league as being attracted to babies and little kids mate. I know you know the two shouldnt be compared and get what your saying but being Gay was rightly made legal as it was a stupid law. Being a nonce however is illegal and will be for a looooonnnnnng time and will never be accepted in a normal society.
I think the people who are saying paedos should be eliminated and wiped from the face of the planet are spot on and ussualy those with kiddies or those who have been abused or abuse has affected them in some sort of way will obviously have a strong opnion on it.
Like you say, there is NO cure for nonceness so why dont we do the world a favour, when we catch them then either eliminate them, chemically castrate them(and pyshicaly), or take a piece of the brain an experiment with it to see if there is a way to cure it fo those nonces that dont want nonceness in them.
anyway, im off. watchin the redmen smash fulham 2-0.
Get in Maxi

No I get all that, I'm just saying you can't call someone a child abuser when they haven't actually done anything. I agree that they should just be imprisoned for life or given a death penalty, if they abuse a child, because there's nothing that can be done about the way they think, but not when they've done the sensible thing and not acted on it.

Oh and Rocketqueen I get what you mean about them finding it on the internet if they can't get the real thing, that counts as acting upon it to me though.

Exactly. That is the difference, but society and the media dont want to see any difference in the two. For those members who keep on feeling sick with my messages, then please dont read them or comment.

Someone mentioned the differences between living next door to a paedophile or someone convicted of killing a paedophile who messed with their children.

I honestly believe that most paedophiles have no intention of messing with children, and if you want to discuss the 'abuse' of looking at images, then you must know what the laws and definitions are. "Indecent" or "child p**n" have taken on a whole new meaning, where its now down to 'thought-crime', but someone mentioned that doesn't exist, but it does with images of children. If you dont believe me, then look up "copine scale" and look at level 1; there's your thought crime.

So, when a paedophile acts and molests a child, he should then take on a new label of *child molester*, as that is unarguably an *action*. Would i rather live next door to a paedophile who never touched a child, or someone who killed a child molester? I would choose the paedophile everytime.

I don't see what makes that thought crime?
A crime needs a mens rea (guilty mind) and actus reas (guilty act), can't just have a mens rea, well that's what they taught me in university, haha

born2die yes i do have a strong opinion on this subject but i wasnt abused, now where my children thankfully....my heart goes out to all those who have suffered from the heinious hands of those monsters....

soz "nor were my children "

I dont think that counts as acting. An 'acting homosexual' (for ex) would be someone enaging in sex with the a person of the same gender. If the homosexual enjoys to see pictures of whom he/she is attracted to, im not sure you could call that person an "active homosexual".

Looking at, owning or distributing child pornography is illegal in itself, just as sexually abusing a child is, so I think it does count.

The debate could rage for ages if you start talking about CP online. Could be argued that child models don't count for example... would never hear the end of it. With the laws in action today there'd be talk of loli and anime-based CP as well =/

I think there's been studies on how there's been no noticable supply=demand increases when it comes to the amount of people that view such stuff online.

The dangers of creating loads of categorisations for things, is that when you come across someone that doesn't fit into those categories then they will be innocent never mind how obvious it is that they are guilty of something.

The more words, the more loopholes!

Now you are taking the pi55, you honestly claim that looking at child porn online is not acting on your feelings, try telling that to the poor child in the picture.

And yes still if a paedophile who had never touched a child lived next door I want still want the murderer as he wont be looking at the bait every day.

Exposer you really make my skin crawl and feel that you are either:

A) A paedophile

or

B) On a wind up with the vile you are spouting on about.

I think we have differences of opinion here. Can we keep it as a discussion without resorting to personal insults?

MissGuided: Opinions on this subject always run high, I haven't seen any personal insults though???

You can have a criminal offence without the mens rea though

That would apply in cases of this nature n'est-ce-pas?

IMO, looking at a picture of a child in a sexual way is nearly as bad as looking at the child in a sexual way in person. Somewhere along the line the picture had to be taken and produced and then put on the internet in the first place. Looking at that picture makes the person looking at it just as implicated in that original act AFAIC.

To say that a child doesn't suffer in that case is a load of BS - the child had to suffer to have the picture taken.

Suggesting Exposer may be a paedophile could be construed as a personal insult.

I didn't actually accuse or suggest, I said that I could only see two options. A paedophile or a wind up merchant, truth is I just think he/she is so balck and white in their thoughts they cant see other people views and tries to use their good use of grammar to tie people in knots.

OK. I'll rephrase. You are making personal opinions about another member's character. Better?

Still dont see problem, if I made made a personal opinion about another members charchter in a good light would that be wrong?

This member seems to have signed up for this topic only which helped me make the decision I made, someone even suggested they are probably another member using another account to hide away. Can this be checked out?

Mark has been pm'd with this request.

Thank you, never wanted a row and hope things can move forward sensibly.

I don't think that Exposer would deny that s/he joined to post in this one thread. His/her first post and name pretty much indicates as much.

Not entirely sure what difference it would make if it did turn out to be someone using a second account? His/her points are still valid (and well researched).

Probably best you move to a remote island without the sex offenders on it...

I would agree that people using alternative log ins for a sensitive subject like this should be allowed and their privacy respected, it means a more open discussion can take place - however, no personal insults!

As Mentioned Opinions are welcomed Personal insults are not.
Please be aware we do take Personal Attack on Members Seriously.
If you have any concerns use the Notify a post.
Thanks.

I don't think the suggestion was that someone was doing it to protect their identity so that they could talk about it confidentailly. I think it was meant that someone was doing it to wind things up.

Anyway, I think I've had enough of reading this thread. I'm going to do what I should have done an hour ago. Ignore it and read other threads instead

I have never been on or seen this forum before i joined a couple of days ago. I am watching CW, and im sure there are plenty of others doing the same, especially the police. Chris was (and still is) naming and shaming judges for their sentences just before he put out JV's alleged identity. He is too wreckless for words, and i have much proof now. When i see non-hatefull and intelligent people assuming he's a great guy fighting against child abuse, I have to speak. The trouble is, society seems to be stuck in the mindset that "never enough can be done to protect children". These attitudes have no limit and no boundaries. Anything goes if its *seen* to be protecting children from sexual abuse.

The obsession with paedophiles and child protection has spawned the likes of Wittwer and his pitch-fork wielding vigilantes. Few people are brave enough to question the methods being used to deal with this issue, so no one speaks out in fear of slander, and in this case, quite often life-destroying allegations. I can imagine in the house of commons, laws being passed on this issue, and MP's silently objecting to them, while audibly commending them. I just ask those who see this thread to take a closer look at C.H.R.I.S.

Thanks.

Wench - Strict liability

Ok Exposer, know I know why you are here. As I have said before I do not support Chris, I do however believe that as a parent I have a right to know if a paedophile is living near me and my children, the website allows me to look and check that out. I have no intention of causing them harm just watching my children.

As for you comment: The trouble is, society seems to be stuck in the mindset that "never enough can be done to protect children". These attitudes have no limit and no boundaries. Anything goes if its *seen* to be protecting children from sexual abuse. I can say that I must be one of the troubles of society as I would do ANYTHING to protect my children, no matter what the consequences were. That may be wrong in your book but in mine it's fine.

As for him outing JV thats a different matter, the problem is to me is that he under his new name committed an offence which he is in jail for as an adult under his new identity, so the public have a right to know that new id as we would know the id of other adults who are named in many local and national papers every day of the year.

He has threatened to out Thompson and I have sent Chris a message saying that would be a huge mistake. As far as we are led to believe he has not committed any offences under his new id and so in that case that should be kept secret.

I dont believe at 10 they were paedophiles but JV is clearly of that mindset now and it is not something that can be changed, like was said earlier if you are straight thats it if you are gay thats it but paedophillia is sick.

blimey, been busy on here this evening!!



so good old jim'll fix it isn't a kiddy fiddler? and pete townshend was 'just researching a book' what next? garry glitter is innocent?

"jim'll fix it isn't a kiddy fiddler"

Has he been charged or convicted? Is there proof?

"pete townshend was 'just researching a book'"

All he was convicted for, was subscribing to a site. He was never convicted of image possession, neither was he convicted of abusing a child. That is the reason why most professionals do NOT risk researching the subject as its *too hot to touch* Please put things into perspective.

Just explore all there is to know about Chris and his Campaign. Thats all i ask and indeed expect of people now at this stage.

You can see more of his character here:
http://www.bpp.org.uk/nonces1.html

so if you want me to "put things into perspective" why did you choose to post the link from the bpp website when all they have done is copied and pasted the article from the daily mail? is this an attempt to to say 'look, this bloke is a racist/bigot etc?'

surely if you want "things in perspective" you should of just used a link to the original daily mail article?

POT, KETTLE, BLACK??

I think wittwer is dangerous and should be closed down as he IS inciting hatred. Ok, his "chris" site is slick but i had a look at his facebook site and thats really worrying as it shows the mans true nature. I find his way of accusing minorities of child abuse without any proofs very disturbing. He even goes as far as to sensationally accuse the Jehovahs wittnessess of having a secret child abuser list of their members. How the hell can that be true when they have millions of members across many countries (and no im not a JW). He then laughs and eggs on some of his "devotees" when say they never liked witnessess and the next one who knocks on their doors is going to get a smack if that's not inciting hatred then what is? . I mean he says he's heping to keep the children of the UK safe, but if that's the case then why post pics of new zealand abusers if not for sensationalism, maybe because he's run through his repetoire of english abusers and rather than wait until someone is convicted and it's in the public domain he's got a taste of the god complex and the only way to feed that is to update his web with anything abuser connected. funnily i couldn't find anybody on his facebook page with a valid argument against him.Everyone there loves him and what he does. I find that very suspicious. On a healthy site (like this one) there are always the "for & againsts" he only has people who totally agree with him anyone else seems to be blocked of deleted. Dangerous dangerous egotistical man and i don't think it will be long before someone on his site or connected commits a serious crime in his name .

And before someone pipes up with my being a " kiddie fiddler lover" im not. But there's no way i'd put all my faith in this one lone creepy man and his ulterior motives.

Alright, madam law But you are right. I agree

I'm here because this forum came up searching "children have rights in society", so i joined to tell people what i know.




I dont rely on his involvement as BNP member, i know he's a 'racist bigot'. Perhaps the St Georges flag engraved into the side of his neck gives it a way though.

This is his work, as the same words are used on his site.

http://www.noncewatch.org/

Below is him chanting "No surrender". He does think he's a god/hero worthy of worship.

http://twitter.com/#!/chriswittwer/status/1592938642

I have no evidence of this, but dont doubt it for a minute: A terrified old woman begged Wittwer to remove her address from his website after her son was found guilty of possessing indecent images. He did a jail term, and moved to another address on his release. That address is home to a vulnerable old lady now, not a 'nonce'. Chris is believed to have attempted trading his old address by black-mailing the mother to hand over her sons new address.

One of the members above confirmed how suspicious it was to find no critical comments on his group, and that's because he doesn't do questions. You quiz him or give him advice, him and his crew block you immediately, and it doesn't matter who you are.

He is a very dangerous man, and if you think you can defend him against criticisms, mrhanky, that's interesting, because that's something not even he can do.

Get involved, check him out. Look at his facebook group and dare ask some questions..

http://www.facebook.com/pages/CHRIS-children-have-rights-in-society/141671072532024

i asked a simple question as to why you chose to link to the article on the site not where the article originaly came from yet you chose not to answer it. interesting??


so surely that's just hearsay?



have just had a quick look at my posts and i didn't see any where i have mentioned, let alone defended him, his site or his actions. i stand to be corrected though if i have.

Didn't know having the St Georges cross tattooed made you "racist bigot" maybe im a bigot for having an everton tattoo . . . or possibly just love my team. My next tattoo was/is going to be the 3 lions on the St Georges cross so would that be a racist statement or showing love for my national football team and my country ?

Exposer the line "now I know why you are here" was not a dig I just didn't get your intentions at the start as most new members settle in slowly wheras you got involved in a heated/healthy debate (and thats fine) it was just out of the norm so I thought you were on a wind up and I apologise for that.

Perhaps i didn't answer it because it was 'uninteresting' and not of importance. It wasn't the context that i was focussing on, it was where it was being represented. I do believe i have provided more than enough links to back up my points, dont you? If you want to look at the dailymail article on the dailymail, then fill your boots.



That would be correct, and I admmitted that. I propose you ask yourself the likely-hood that actually happened however, and these stories whether true or false, reveal the real possible dangers that are being ignored at present. I am not overly concerned that I'm not getting through to you, because when the FACTS are on the table, our ~children's hero~ will be condemned.



Well, you are rather picking holes in my accusations against him. If you think hate, rather than forgiveness is better for all concerned, then you fit nicely in amongst this new breed of anti-paedophile vigilante.

mrhanky, If you're beating down my posts because i've upset you, then i apologise. There is nothing more to say to you though.

You can have what ever tattoos you want, it's your character that's more important. If your character tried to turn into Saint George himself, then you need to be watched closely.

'Apparently', only 1 in 5 people actually know when st Georges day is anyway. I dont think Dragons ever existed

Slightly off topic I know, but the Chinese invented dragons about 3000 years ago because they found so many dinosuar bones and didn't know what they were.

Interesting observation there
Tell me more





p.s. love these smilies on here

i find it funny someone called the exposer commenting on a children have rights thresd or mayeb its just me being drunk and nuts haha

ok, maybe i should of said that i was 'curious' instead of using the word interesting.


i agree that there is more probability that the threats/blackmail did happen but it is still just hearasy, NOT FACTS.


sorry but i am not picking holes in your accusations against him.
you said to me "...and if you think you can defend him against criticisms, mrhanky, that's interesting,..."
as i said previously i do not hate the person who abused me, but i would never forgive him. why should i forgive him? he was an adult who was fully aware of what he was doing to a child.



you haven't upset me so no apology neccessary and to be honest it's been quite an interesting conversation. shame you have decided that you do not want to continue it.

In that case, I'll hang around then. Seems like a good forum. I am planning to be offline more often this summer though. I've been quite busy messaging people with my views the last year or so, need to get some sun and take a break.

I do feel fairly confident that when/if CHRIS gets his much wanted media attention, it won't be in favour. Despite his followers making petitions to get him his *MBE*, I think it's more likely to be an *ASBO*. It attracts violent criminality, so it's not surprising the 'top child abuse fighters' featured in the videos...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA_LyKH5jWc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPOEILWh7Wc

are all ex-prisoners themselves. The whole thing stinks.

I know absolutely nothing about this CHRIS site. I would however like to say that I agree TOTALLY with Dizdazdoz. Any parent who wouldn't do absolutely anything for the safety of their children should not have kids. Wild animals defend their young to the death.

Mr. Hanky has first-hand knowledge of child abuse and the effects on children and I for one admire and respect him for the help he offers to others.

I agree that these two "intellects" have gone too far in what they are saying and both appear to have their own agenda on the sickest of subjects.

good on you for sticking around. nothing like a healthy debate.



but how many of them were abused as children?
i'm working with eight people at the moment who were abused as children, think only one of them has never been arrested.

i remember reading a report saying approximately 85% of people in prison were abused as children (sexual, violence and extreme neglect etc) can't remember where i read it, will see if i can finds it again. it may of been something that nick cooling(?) wrote.

Is this 17% re offending claim right? Ive checked with a view people in the know (history and law types) and they are pretty sure it is bullshit. Think I gotta few people jumpy too for some reason. lol. Just a genuine quessy coz it does seem like a big steaming pile of turd tbh.
Im still on the side of this CHRIS site but can see the point about looking at the guys running the site. I still wouldnt give a shit if these "thugs, hooligans" etc gave a nonce a damn good hiding but I do have kids and abuse has in one way shape or form has affected me so maybe my judgement is a little clouded.

Anything? Thats where i have a problem with that attitude. Is it OK to hurt innocent people inorder to protect your children? Anything is irrational, unlimited, uncontrolled emotional reactions. Like the woman in the videos i linked to said: "I would kill anyone that touched my children" There is nothing rational about that statement, but instead a dangerous one when psychologically justified.



If that was talking about me, then what 'agenda' do i have?



Are you talking about sexual abuse? What is your line of work? (if you dont mind me asking)
Many do claim they were abused, but the leaders suggest that abuse plays no part in the victim going on to abuse. I think there is a link personally, and i'll even suggest that paedophilia can also be a result of abuse, even non-sexual abuse. Sexual abuse today is not what it used to be. Two children experimenting with eachother should be seen as natural and healthy, but society today is more likely to call one a victim, and the other an abuser (depending on gender and age). You will hear from many people who monsterise paedophiles, that they dont believe there is anything sexual about children. This is to assume they are a-sexual, but if we're all honest, we know thats not true.



That may be true, but i dont personally think it is.



If you have...

then why did they not provide you with anything to suggest otherwise? CHRIS, who get his information from "secret sources", says the reconviction rate is 72%, I'd love to see evidence of that and for most of his other claims too.



Would you 'give a shit' if an innocent person was given a damn good hiding too? You know it's going to happen, but it seems more important to you that a 'nonce' gets his 2nd punishment from a baying mob. I would say your judgement is much clouded, no offence.

no, i do care if an innocent person is hurt obviously.
The same thing when some knob gets hold of someone who happens to look like a nonce. Ive heard that one before now.
My suggestion is this - be 150% the person in question is a nonce then once you are sure then kick the ever living shit out the prick and maybe scar the coksucker so everytime he looks in the mirror he is reminded of what he is.
THAT my friend is justice and one most people would agree with and no offence taken, my judgement IS clouded but so what. Once you see these dirty scumbags prancing around like they never did a thing wrong, then it gets you nasty and twisted thats why I never agreed with your comparison to gay people.
Gay bashing was and still is wrong. I dont have a problem with someone thats gay. End of the day its upto them and they are not hurting anybody so no need for anyone to hurt them.

That is exactly how I feel, Exposer if you really feel it is wrong to do ANYTHING to protect my children we are miles apart on our views. Of course no-one ever wants someone innocent to be hurt but in my thinking I would sooner one innocent adult was attacked than kids being abused.

When kids are abused it effects them for the rest of there life, there partners lives, there parents lives, any children/grandchildren in the future, siblings the list is endless.

I noticed also you said someone was picking small parts of your views but you are as bad. You picked on the word ANYTHING, you never really explained why the St Georges cross was offensive on Chris, you possibly an MP by the way you avoid direct questions and try to wriggle out of corners . . . oh you dont get expenses for being here do you?

What about 50 innocent adults attacked to one kid being abused? How many adults equal a child? Where are the statistics to show how many children are saved, to how many innocent people are attacked? You clearly dont care about the innocent ones do you? Is it wrong to do anything? Depends what it is, but in the case of supporting CHRIS, you are crossing the line into the abuse of adults. Hunting perverts and monsters and calling them all paedophiles, is nothing short of medieval witch-hunting.

Please read this again..
http://mwillett.org/mind/paedophilia.htm



Im not disagreeing with that. There are many experiences that affect us all of our lives. "Abuse" is quite often subjective though, and there are different levels of it.




Chris is an ego-maniac, which makes the Saint Georges cross not so offensive, but incredibly re-affirming. I wont bother entertaining you on the rest of your post.

where are all these innocent people that keep getting beaten up?

if hunting for paedophiles, is nothing short of medieval witch-hunt. there would be a lot of people hunting for them.ill bring the ropes and sticks to prod them with i have a stepp ladder to push them off dirty dirty kiddie fiddlers.

Where are all the children that are being saved by the CHRIS site?

See what I did there?

If a child is saved you are not going to hear about it are you?

If Sarah Payne was saved know one would ever have knew or heard about her she would have just been a ordinary girl.

So you can't really say that can you?

Well yeah, I can. You're asking me to guess.

If your claim is that the CHRIS site protects children then you should be able to prove it.

That's just daft.

Exactly lol. That was the point.

oh okay, haha

"What about 50 innocent adults attacked to one kid being abused? How many adults equal a child? "..........exo , my question regarding innocent people getting beaten up was aimed at your friend exposure, that is his claim, i have made no claim about the CHRIS site saving any child...

50 adults attacked to every abused child?????

There are over 20,000 kids sexually abused every year, so if that figure is correct - then there are one million adults attacked every year!

Not sure that we're friends - I agree with a lot of what s/he has to say but this is the first time I've ever spoken to him/her.

Exposer didn't make a claim, s/he gave an example of a hypothetical ratio to make a point...

It would seem a pointless hypothetical example, about as equally valid as saying if nobody had children then there would be no child abuse.

You can't take retribution into account, every crime (and every action) has a chance of retribution, should every criminal remain anonymous?

Depends on what sort of crime they commited imo. Voilent and sexual criminals should NOT be anonymous. Out the barstard and see how they like it when they have the fear of god put in them.

I wasnt havin a dig at you dig. lol. sorry mate, couldnt resist that one.
I agree with you by the way just that I dont think ALL criminals should have the luxury of anonymity. After all, the tax payer is paying for this and we are supposed to be saving money in this country.

I didn't think you were lol

I think everybody should be anonymous up to trial, and agree with public trial system BUT once convicted it, they should be public convictions. Pretty much as it is now other than pre-trial is currently in the public domain.

i'm a peer support counsellor, work with two other blokes who run a small charity dealing with people who've suffered psychosexual trauma.
the bit i was saying about being arrested was that most people we see have had issues with people in authority and ended up being arrested at some point, mostly public order, drunk and dissorderly etc. obviously some have been more involved in criminal activities.
we don't work with abusers, the prison service did ask but we declined.

as you say and i'm sure most people would agree that children experimenting is a perfectly natural part of growing up.

sorry ex0 but davva is right. if sarah payne wouldn't of died then you it is highly un likely it would of made the national press.

i'm not in anyway trying to trivialise what happened to sarah payne but we are working with a couple of people at the moment and the things that happened to then as children is very disturbing to say the least. one of them is writing his 'story' at the moment and believe me it makes a child called it read like a disney fairy tale.

ex0, I am a male, just to save you the p.c'ness




Search "vigilante attacks on paedophiles" and you'll find plenty of cases where there was no conviction of sex offenses. Even in the cases where they were proven child abusers, who's saying it's right to kill or beat that person when they have done their time? Thats vigilantism, and vigilantism is a crime.



What are you talking about? There are alot of people hunting them, but they think they're hunting "raping killing monsters", yet most paedophiles are unlikely to be either of those things. If a paedophile dares to confess his/her illegal attraction, then he/she is in line to be stabbed by a mob member. The mob, is all those chanting along with CHRIS, and they are painting paedophiles to be this way, so when one of them does murder a paedophile, it will be seen as heroic and socially acceptable. You think children want this for their future, where they're encouraged to hate and hunt a minority of people, who are most likely living terrifed lives? If you think all paedophiles are 'kiddy fiddlers', then you really don't know what the term means and you don't understand the diversity of human nature.



There is no 'child-love' in raping and killing a little girl, so Roy Whiting was not a paedophile in the true meaning of the word. His psychologist DID make that claim.



Ok then, 10 adults attacked, where's the balance just so i know? If it results in innocent people being attacked (no matter how many), then it's not the way forward, simples.
Do you have any sources for 20,000 kids being sexually abused every year being a FACT?



Yes they should. If they are not fit to be in society, then dont have them in society. If they are released back into society upon approval, they have a right to get on with their lives without the fear of being attacked by some thug. You don't get it do you, CHRIS promotes hatred and violence, and a simple verbal denial of that doesn't quite cut it.




Pre-trial suspects should NOT be in the public domain, and its a wreckless media and weak politicians that have allowed that.
CHRIS claims he "only touches on the convicted", but that's an outright lie. I would have to repeat myself now, so please look at my earlier posts as to who else he lists.



Do you think CHRIS helps prevent children from being killed, or encourages adults to be killed? With most sexual-abuse happening within the family, its the family home that is then listed on CHRIS. Children are going to get hurt too, but this St George wannabee doesn't look further than his ego, and his supporters don't look further than their desire for self-righteousness and violence.

I give up on this topic, seems that there is a massive gulf in opinions/views and beliefs to have an open debate. People are going round in circles now.

I think most of the gulf is people with kids and people without.

exposer....you want people to show understanding , maybe sympathy to paedophiles....yet totally condemn anybody that supports CHRIS or has a different opinion to you . I will always trust my instinct on this subject, and the word " paedophile " , quite rightly will always set alarms bell ringing , no matter what someone with a couple of letters after their name has to say on the subject. Thats my opinion , and like dizdazdoz , i'm bowimg out....

3 words: Freedom of Speech.
There are legal remedies for people who may think that CHRIS is slandering them.
If no one has sued them for slander, then go figure.

Shocker, an American reminding people of their rights

he's not an american

Loc: Atlanta GA USA

Not an American, see?

The guy has been there 15 years, he's basically American.

I've got a cousin that's been there for 4 years I think and he's already started throwing their constitutional rights into conversations pretty much every chance he gets. (and yes I realise freedom of speech applies to us as well.)

I've lived on the Wirral since 2001 but I'm still a Manc.



I've been watching this thread from start to finish with very minimal input.

I can honestly say that my views have somewhat changed since I started watching it.

I cannot believe the views that some other people have.

What a mad society we live in.

If he can't be elected president he's not an American

 

.

So Americans spouting off about their rights you have issues with but paedophiles....

I take real offence to that statement, Bitch.

To my mind,if not having anything nice to say about The CHRIS site doesn't make you a kiddie fiddler. It makes you a well rounded human being who can see the truth. The Chris mans seriously twisted.Anyone with a modicum of common sense can see that there's something not quite right with his facebook account .

Please Note : Do not make any of your replies "personal Insults"
Have a Healthy Point of view. But keep it to a respectful Level. If any posts are found to be Insulting towards other Members on a Personal Level your account WILL be suspended.

where is my posts on this subject ?????has it been removed if so can you please give me a reason because there wasint nothing in it that shouldent be i was only mentioning a dvd and what it was about and why it was made there isnt anything wrong in that surely its on the wright up on the back of the dvd

The last page was removed I think because born2die doesn't know how to put childish emotions aside and have an adult discussion without namecalling

may possibly be but why remove my post as i said it was only about the human centipede and what the film was about nothing wrong with that,as you all will get an insight into the film it basiclywas made with the thaughts of what tom sixs would like to do to paedophiles but he has used a diferent approach this is what he would like to do the human centipede vertuily is self explained he sews 3 people from mouth to ass and so on and gives the 1st person something to eat and in time then when he needs a no 2 then the 2nd one eats and so one this is what it says on the back of the dvd cace inspired by a conversation over what punichment would be appropriate for a convicted paedophiles tom sixs bizare bilogical horror film. has the distinction of being 100% medically accurate alls that means is he would like all peadoes to be a part of the centipede
so why did my last post get removed it is as stated on the dvd

this toppic is a genuine toppic and it gives everyone a chance to voice there opinion weather you agree with the chris site or not every single person that reads this will have there own thaughts on the matter but i personaly think all kiddie fiddlers must have there nobs cut off and made to eat there own bollocks and then maybe human centipede that is my opinion and as i say every one has there own opinions so let the people talk without removing there comments thats what freedom of speach is there but there isnt any need to [censored] anyones name let people judje for themselvs please dnt remove this post

oh was your post removed aswell scary ..... so was mine my reason for removal was person insult ........this topic is full of insults .......... so why only remove mine ...... the thing with this topic people dont like hearing the truth about kiddy fiddlers ...... i think the chris site is a good idea

born2die has his own way of putting in his own comments he may use them as being verry blunt and getting streaight to the point but lets face it there isnt anyone who in the right mind who found out for sure that a registered kiddy fiddler was in there area can honestly say hand on heart that they wouldent like to give them a good slap and try to move the kiddie fiddler out side there area can you say with your hand on your heart you wouldent well perhaps then you need to look up what a peadophile is again all your opinions surely will be welcome

This is not directed at anyone in particular, if aggressiveness and personal insults are included in a post, the only thing it achieves is that it deflects from the point one is trying to get across. When a valid point is lost in a post because of abuse, not only does the debate suffer it also deters other members expressing their view for fear of getting tangled up in that abuse.

Something I'd like to add to the debate, in my view a convicted pedophile should receive a life prison sentence, they should be removed from society, so they can't inflict any more harm or suffering to children. I don't go along with cutting bollocks off, slashing throats, etc, its not going to happen so there's no point in calling for it.
However on saying that i do believe this is a problem that will only be cracked by medical science, I don't know what research goes on for this problem or has gone on, in my view nobody wakes up one morning and says I'm going to be a pedophile, to my way of thinking there is something in their DNA, Genes or Biological make up or whatever heading it comes under, should we show them compassion, debatable, should we strive for a cure, if indeed it becomes recognisable as a mental illness of a sort, then the answer is yes.
Another thing i will throw in to the pot, many years ago in darkest Africa, it was accepted that young girls as young as ten were taken as a wife, i was reading recently, in Scotland at one time it was permitted to get married as young as 12 years of age, Were they pedophiles?

Your posts were removed along with the personal Insult posts, its just one of them things, your posts is in the middle of the personal Insults so there no easy way to edit your post and move it back. your lucky the topic is still running it has got very close to the bone, and the a mount of pm's I have received about posts. Next time send me a pm and I would be more than happy to let you no, instead of filling the topics full crap.


Anyway back on topic.....

Bert I would say most definitly that either the government or society who agreed with such things is bordering on paedaphilia. Its been accepted for for too long in societys around the the world and but most logical normal people on the planet think its wrong.
Nonces go to Asia for one reason and thats because there are a few countries or Governments that tolerate it still in the 21st Century.
Look at Gary Glitter, banished from the UK by the media, goes to Asia, abuses a little girl, pays a small fine (compensation to the family of the little girl) serves a few months in a harsh prison then comes back here and we the tax payer have to foot the bill so he can be kept safe from normal thinking people that would kick the ever living shit out of him.
How the hell is that right and moral?

Bert, Chemical Castration COULD cure it but I doubt the Government would do it becasue it probably interferes with "there HUMAN RIGHTS".
That imo is the problem. The European Court of Human Rights.
We hand out heavier sentences for Benefit Fraud than we do to nonces and net nonces and why? Human Rights.
We got rid of the death penalty, National Service and work farms and now we are reaping what we are sowing in this country but thats a whole new subject.
Im not saying the Death Penalty is a great idea becuase at the end of the day there were many many people put to death that have since been given post humous pardons but the technology is there so we can determine via DNA wether a murderer has commited the murder etc etc. Put it this way, if the death penalty hadnt been abolished, we could have saved billions instead of what it has cost the british public in keeping the likes of Brady, Hindly, Huntly and Whiting alive.

No 'we' don't.

It'd be nice to see some evidence backing up all the claims in this thread. Handing out slaps isn't going to cure a paedophile is it?

Regardless of whatever sentencing or punishment is handed out, and everyone has conflicting views on that, regardless to whatever crime it may be, as far as pedophilia is concerned, by the time we get to sentencing a child has already suffered. The sentencing that society deem fit to hand out may or may not deter them repeating the offence again, hopefully the former, though thats wishful thinking. Society's energies should be directed towards not allowing it to happen in the first place. How do we stop it?, naming and shaming sites are all very well and throwing away the key is fine but they are the convicted ones, the pedophiles we already know about, how are we going to protect children from the ones we don't know about? The reason i threw past cultures marrying at the young age of ten in to the mix and this was happening before any governments as such existed and supposedly in a less civilised time, they lived their lives under natures laws and not mans laws. If they practiced pedophilia and it was the natural thing for them to do, it becomes very worrying. That's why i raised the question, is it something determined in our biological makeup. If its proven by research that its a human trait, something thats born in some and not others like left handed, right handed, hetero, homo, etc, etc, we are well and truly in the brown stuff, all the sentencing in the world won't stop it, its just my humble opinion that only medical science will crack this one, until it does we can only hope to keep our children safe by vigilance and education.

Hi Guys,
This thread has now been running for almost three weeks,
in my opionion that is more then enough time for your opinons and views to come across. And we thank you for them.

We have already removed posts and contacted members to keep the comments non personal.
This has not been the case. For now we thank you all for your comments but it has come to a natural end
and we believe closing the thread is in the best interest of the News forum. Lets move on.

Thank you for your understanding.
Please contact me via pm if you feel the need to.

Thanks Mark