Mum defies West Kirby’s Hilbre High School over daughter’s nose ring ban

Jan 6 2011 By Ben Turner

A DEFIANT mum is refusing to remove her 12-year-old daughter’s nose ring which her school has banned on health and safety grounds.

Donna Tucker insists she will fight West Kirby’s Hilbre High School all the way after claiming staff have ordered her daughter Keira to remove the "late Christmas present" by Monday or she must find another school.

But Mrs Tucker, 38, is adamant the nose ring, which matches her own, will not be removed as it "is a human rights issue".

Today the school refused to be drawn on the issuing of any ultimatum.

But headteacher Jan Levenson insisted she was hoping to meet with Mrs Tucker to find an "amicable outcome" and stressed all parents had signed up to the uniform rules.

However Mrs Tucker, from Moreton, is refusing to back down claiming other pupils flout the jewellery ban.

She said: " I do not know what the big deal is, she is not turning up with drugs or a weapon and they should be more bothered about the fact she turns up and puts a lot of effort into her work.

"The nose ring was a late Christmas present and I had mine done with her. Other kids have snake bites (piercing below the lip) and a teaching assistant at the school has her nose pierced."

She added: "We will fight the school over it as it’s a human rights issue. Kids aren’t robots, my daughter’s her own person."

But Mrs Levenson said: ‘The school rules, to which every parent signs up when their child comes here, are the same as they have ever been.

"Pupils are not allowed to wear piercings in school, and are always challenged when they do so.

"That rule exists on health and safety grounds because, in a busy school where there are a lot of pupils, there is a very real risk of accidents."

She added that the student had not been sent home "as we have no wish to interrupt her education".

http://www.wirralnews.co.uk/wirral-...-over-daughter-8217-s-nose-ring-ban.html

This is why the kids refuse to recognise rules.
We all have to do things we don't like sometimes that we don't like but sometimes appropriate clothes / behavior etc are required.

Human rights my @rse. She's a teenager, way down the food chain and should behave accordingly

It's a nose stud though.. this is all a bit pathetic. School using the health and safety crap as an excuse because the head probably doesn't want her perfect students having them..

She's 12 - not even a teenager yet.

I agree it's not a case of Human Rights it's a case of School Rules. If you don't like the rules there then find another school!

Totally Agree softy well said

Every time i hear about nose rings my mind immediately takes me to the ring through a bulls nose, very appropriate, a ring through a humane nose is in my opinion is not at all attractive, however if a grown up wishes to have one, thats their choice, in a child, not very pleasant and body pieacing other than for ear rings should not be allowed until they are at least 16 years of age, at that age they are some way towards knowing their own mind and any possible dangers.

deffo sys a nose ring, which is different from stud....there is a risk of it catching nd ripping half her bleedin nostril off....think the mum needs some serious parenting skills....she sounds the type to get her belly pierced and tattoo next.....wat a twonk.......

just trawled the internet nd there is no age restriction on nose piercings as long as they are accompanied by a parent under the age of 18.....clean and reputable estblishments wont do it to under anyone under 16.....

When I was 12 I didn't want to wear a cap or shorts (or a tie, for that matter) to School - but I had to, because those were the rules. If I got caught breaking the rules them my parents would be the first to give me a rollocking for it, never mind "fight the school" and/or call the local paper over it! Sheeesh!!

LOL, so if the parent is under the age of 18, what age is the child?

wow can,t beleive the mother, on this one. school rules are ther for the benefit and fairness of everybody, if the mother makes an exception to the rule with her daughter now, then her daughter will go through life assuming she is excempt from having to folow rules or guidelines, if she doesnt like them. Its her mothers fault for paying for this peircing as a late xmas present at the age of 12, . i have nothing against peircings at all. my thing when i was at school was i liked to dye my hair all differant colours, but when it was orange i was told i had to dye it by the headmistress, which i did.

If her daughters nose gets ripped , because the ring gets caught on say a fellow pupils item of clothing or other, will the mother exspect the school to be responsible for it. ???

personall i think just take it out, and when your 16-18 do what you like

i disapprove of any piercings bar ears (lobes) under the age of 18.

However, my 'rebellion' aged 13-14 was to have 3 piercings in one lobe.
i was waaaay 'out there' me. A proper Rock Chick!! til i was grounded for a month (reduced to two weeks, if i took the earrings out)

It's a school rule... Remove it or fook off for fucks sake.

At 12, it shouldn't be pierced at all. Some people shouldn't be allowed to have children! It goes through me (pardon the pun) when I see babies with their ears pierced - it's tantamount to child abuse IMO.

I'm with the school on this one. I went to a Grammar school and remember being sent home for having the wrong colour bag. They were strict on rules and it did me no harm.

I pierced my own ears when I was 14 in the library toilets with a safety pin and cork because my Mum wouldn't let me have them done. She went ballistic!

I got my nose pierced just before I started my nurse training in the 80's and was told I had to take it out. My arguement was that they didn't ask the Indian girls to take theirs out and was told that theirs was for religious reasons so it was different. It made me bloody angry but rules are rules so it was taken out during work hours (sort of - I kept the stem of a nose stud hidden in it so that it would stay patent and then pushed it out with a full stud when I got back to the nurses home).

At 12, you do as you are told - end of story. If the mother or child doesn't like it, then off to another school you go. Only trouble is, the child will only learn that if you kick up enough of a stink you will get your own way. Not a good lesson for the rest of her life!!

School rules sometimes aren't fair - but then life isn't either.

ABSOLUTELY. If she is not taught to abide by the rules at that age,then she never will!!!

This kid is gonna be pushed from school to school, if Mum disagrees to conform, so well done Mum-spouting your daughters 'human rights' YET neglecting her need for a basic education!

IMO the Mother is Counter Transfering her own un-resolved issues with Authority. God help her kids!

Schools are far to soft on pupils these days, a good stroke of the cain never did me any harm - and yes at Hilbre High, otherwise the teachers get treated like dirt and they need some form of deterent.

Cane and I beg to differ. Usually the cane was administered on a regular basis to the same children. Look up any old school log books and you will see the same names appearing time after time, so it obviously didn't deter them. It could also be a very unjust punishment simply because many times a whole class could be caned because of the actions of one pupil who wouldn't or couldn't admit liability. I would also suggest that certain teachers got off by hitting children and I remember one particular teacher who seemed to go into a trance whilst hitting boys with a plimsoll. There is no excuse for violence whatsoever in school and certainly not by adults on children.

Back on topic, why the hell does anyone want to mutilate themselves with any kind of piercing. The emperor has no clothes on people. i.e. Most of it looks bloody ugly.

Whilst I agree that rules are rules, and must be adhered to, I cant but help think there is a bit of hyprocrisy going on at the school.

If they are banning nose piercings, then there should be no lower lips allowed, no eyebrows allowed, ears??? and a teaching assistant should definitely NOT be allowed to sport a nose ring!!!

If the case is such that people are sporting lower lip piercings and that is going unpunished, and a teaching assistant has a nose piercing on display, then banning this child is pure hyprocrisy and the school need to sort their policy out and get their house in order before sending someone home in this instance.

You'd be surprised how much parents 'know better' than educational professionals these days. They even think they know their child's academic perfomance better than a teacher who may have taught them for at least 4 years. A teacher knows what level a pupil should aim at if they are to get a grade that is realistic to their ability. But some parents refuse to believe that their child is only capable of C or below.

Its just a part of the 'know your rights' movement up against common sense and professional experience.

I read about this today. Isn't Human Rights one of the most abused rights going? Ridiculous!

Seriously think this is the problem with teens who won't conform to rules or laws. Parents who will not enforce decisions made by those in charge. These are the teens who will go through life thinking they don't have to conform. I clearly remember being on detention for not wearing my hat - which I had genuinely forgotten. Having my blazer confiscated (in Winter) because I had pushed my sleeves up. I learnt the lesson. Wake up parents, you're sending the wrong message.

Should have added that for every kid that goes off the rails there are dozens who don't. They have responsible parents in my opinion and in turn mature into responsible adults.

Sounds like the mother needs a good slap!

I agree StueyMac but it's the message the mother is sending out. If she was protesting because she felt there was one rule for one and one for another - fair enough. That's a not a bad lesson to teach your kids to stick up for the under dog. What is wrong with the message she's sending out is her belief that her human rights are being infringed - the daughter has no rights yet until she earns some and growing up with an attitude like that it is unlikely that she ever will.

i agree stueymac....if they are going to ban one, they should ban all.....

and i know i am going to throw a spanner up here, but even for religious, personal and cultural reasons nose rings should be banned in our schools....they are a health and safety hazard....

That is true Softy, she has approched it from totally the wrong angle. Had she looked at the hypocritical angle then this would have been some very bad publicicty for the school. However, I feel the educated people that read the story will see that, and should come to the conclusion that it is the school that is in the wrong, and that the parent has just chosen the wrong angle to air the arguement.

Mmmm. Not sure I'd go that far but she may have got more sympathy than she's currently seeing

If a teaching assistant can wear a nose stud, then IMO that is giving off the wrong impression, and will only fuel a debate like this.

Im not sure the parent has the correct arguement here, but the hypocrisy that is obviously going on is fueling the debate.

If there where no teaching assistants wearing nose studs, and no other pupils wearing lips studs, then there would be no ground to argue. As there are others wearing studs I feel the parent is entitled to take the debate, though in this case I feel she is approching it from the wrong angle.

The teaching assistant is an adult and has made a neanderthal decision for herself. The student is a kid and should be protected, anyone who done the piercing should be prosecuted for assault on a juvenile (hate seeing little babies with pierced ears). Always get the impression that these buggers just go around grunting. If the kids nose gets ripped then the parents can take the blame but they will probably try and get compo somewhere along the line.

Adult or not, they are there to set an example. If no nose studs are allowed, then that should be accross the board - not just for pupils.

Had this been a one off case where this was the only person in the school to have a stud, then Id instantly dismiss the parents arguement as she wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

...but when teachers are wearing studs in their nose, what kind of signal does that give out. Sure there are certain rules for the teachers in the school, and certain rules for pupils, but there are some things that should be a set standard accross the board - this being one of them.

When you are in the mob there is one set of rules for the Hofficers and another set of rules for the Herks. The example is......we look down on them and they look up to us. What it does do is get the discipline in. We were there to do as we were told and they were there to tell us what to do, simple. It's a system that works and the kids have got to learn discipline from somewhere. When they get old enough to know what they are doing fair enough. When we got further up the ladder we could do more stuff too. It prepares the kids for adult life. Even in the house there are rules, or there should be, and they are there so that everyone leads an orderly existance and it stops conflict. As soon as conflict starts then that is the idyll ruined.

I see what you are saying Bandy, but this is a school, not one of the forces, its also a local authority maintained school, where pupils go because they have to - they have had no choice in the matter.

I totally agree with learning discipline, but IMO they should be taught by example.

Im going to go against the tide on this one as I believe there IS a human rights issue here. 12 or 42 this girl is entitled to protection under human rights, and she has a right to express herself as all the minorities in society are able to claim. Yes they may wear piercings for religious reasons but that in itself is a personal expression, its an expression of faith. So why cant THIS 12 year old girl express herself with a nose piercing for personal reasons.

We seem to be so wrapped up in making kids conform yet this means that they can grow up with no identity or be bullied for their personal expressions outside of school. How many goth kids get treated like crap by their peers just because they tend to dress different. IMHO this would less likely to happen if students were able to express themselves in school as well.

We are so wrapped up in rules and regulations yet they only apply to some. And this is simply wrong.

Hey teacher, leave those kids alone.

We don't need no education.

I've heard that before somewhere. If you don't have rules there's only anarchy left and we are heading towards that anyway, either that or Sharia, take your pick.

Rules is rules Bandy, but when you were in the forces, were there some things that applied to the lower ranks and the higher ranks?

Its a tough call IMHO, a balance between safety and the right to expression (even for minors). I'm sure the school would be the first in the firing line if that gets ripped out and causes injury, but on the flip side of the coin, a school full of clones that all "conform" isn't ideal either. I once saw a film about that, but I couldn't understand it as the narration was in german...

Yes we do have rules, but they only apply to some in this country.

And if there is one thing kids like to do, its try and "act grown up", mimicking what they see in adults.

As someone who works in a school and has to instruct people who are external to it who work for us, I can say without doubt that the teacher with the nose ring is breaching school rules. I wonde if they are permanent staff - could have been agency/volunteer etc.

I expect external staff to keep jewellery to absolute minimal, tattoos covered, no jeans, just smart-casual attire.

The reason for this?

Because the staff - internal or external - need to set an example. It also has a big impact on pupil behaviour. Someone who loks as if they are in authority by the way they dress, will be able to exercise that authority, and the pupils know where they stand.

Children need clear boundaries for behaviour and authority.

Anyway, this is a tangent.

As already said - the mother should have challenged what was already happening in the school in terms of ignorance of the school uniform policy. The Head should also seriously think about how their staff dress. All staff where I work dress smartly. All male teachers, apart from PE staff wear shirt and tie, even suits. All female teachers dress smartly too - no short skirts, no low cut tops. All non-teaching staff have to stick to black and white.

I think it presents authority and equity. We expect the pupils to respect their school uniform. This isn't something you can do if as adults you are flouting your own set rules.

All our staff are on to kids when they spot uniform is dishevelled. Regular uniform checks are a part of school life. It encourages 'uniformity' (obviously), it also encourages solidarity. School is a community which pupils enter every day. It is in a sense their first place to experience and experiment what it is like to be in the 'outside world'.

We all operated under the Admiralty Fleet Orders, which basically meant we were all the same but fat chance. E.g. I lost my id card and got done by the Jimmy, who had also lost his (it was an offence). he asked if I had anything to say and I answered that he had lost his as well so he couldn't really pontificate at me. He agreed and gave me an extra 3 days stoppage for insubordination, as he laughed. I was a stroppy git in those days as well. It was more or less banter. In the main the pigs got away with things we couldn't but we always tried it on. Ditto the RAF and the Army is probably the same because I've seen them at their shindigs when waiting on and then later as an attendee. The basic tenet was "Familiarity breeds contempt" and that's what they lived by, do as we say not as we do and that is the disciplinary system. When you get older and more experienced you follow the same line but you have learned right from wrong along the way, hence.......order.

In many offices (mine included) there are dress codes. We do smart casual Monday to Thursday and can wear jeans on a Friday if you like. It's no big deal, everyone knows exactly where they stand and adheres to the rules.
It's interesting as my company merged with another 4 years ago and we were mixed in the offices. Some of the other company would wear clothing totally IMHO inappropriate for work - strappy tops, short shirts, low cut tops etc. It's not about human rights, it's about shoeing respect for those you work with and for. It's unneccessary, there's a time and a place for everything or else life becomes boring with no day to day differences

I cannot belive how much attention this thread has got!

Brats shouldn't have nose rings end of!

The school should ban them and multicoloured hair etc.
The kids shouldn't be given a choice until they are 18.
Dispicable!

In the forces would a Hindu man be able to refuse to remove his turban on parade because it is religious to him? Yet a Hindu man is able to ride a motorbike in the UK without a helmet as he wears a turban.

In the forces would a female muslim soldier be able to refuse to remove piercings? Yet in school female muslim kids can refuse to remove piercings

The rules only apply to some in society.

12 years old! says a lot about the mother!

No mark! Dirtball!

correct Ste, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Well said.

Hate to be pedantic - but it is Sikhs who wear turbans.

funny thing was, in the 60's we used to train the Indian Submariners, one of whom was a Sikh. Anyway, he goes ashore with the lads and ends up coming back totally bevvied, no turban, beard shaved off and a nice crew cut. Ostracised by his own lot but ok with the Brits. He broke their rules and got banished for it, he became one of us. He seemed ok with it but his Sikh oppoes weren't.

how does it defy human rights. it

completely agree!! Rules are in place to provide order!! Schools are a place of teaching... And kids need to be taught to follow rules... So many people use the human rights act as a defence for doing whatever they please... Country is going to pot with the lack of order in society!!

Or is it just the fact that people are sick and tired of the rules only applying to some, while we see others getting away with it every damn day!!!!!

edit

Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights provides the right to freedom of expression

If the girl has chosen to express herself with a body piercing then it would be against her human rights to force her to remove it.

Can't be that simple HK, if the same girl wanted to express herself by walking around the school naked, what then?

That could be used to override anything you don't like, fortunately its not as simple as that,

They would be the first to make a claim against the school i bet if she was to catch her nose ring on something and it was to come out of her nose causing an injury.

Obviously I didnt quote the whole article. It goes on to state that it is subject to formalities, restrictions and penalties as prescribed by law. So the act of Gross Indecency in walking around school naked would overule the human right of expression.
However I dont think there are any laws banning the wearing of jewellery in school. This is simply something adopted by the school itself

If something was in a position to pull out a nose ring then it would be in a position that it could potentially injure anyone whether they are wearing a nose ring or not. And if that is the case then yes the school would be liable.

Ok, so we didnt make the rules. They were made supposedly on our behalf. But whether we like it or not they are there to protect us. And now you dont like it if someone suggests using it?

"it falls to a school's governing body to decide on their approach to school uniform as part of their responsibility to oversee the running of the school under section 21 of the Education Act 2002 and also their duty to ensure that school policies promote good behaviour and discipline among the pupil body under section 88 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006. However, in new guidance to schools on school uniform and related policies (4th October 2007), the DCSF strongly encourages schools to have a uniform as they believe it supports effective teaching and learning."

SOURCE

But why cant their approach to school uniform be in breach of European Human Rights article 10?

Three exceptions to the Human rights act could apply in this case....

The prevention of disorder or crime.
The protection of health or morals.
The protection of the reputation or rights of others

IMHO - to keep Wench from twisting parts of my anatomy again

Before you start the school of your choice youre given a list of rules about uniform and what jewelry is allowed every term you get one akward parent trying to make a name for themselves most schools let you wear studs in your eares but have to take them out to do p.e

That's why we are in such chaos today, too many people don't want to follow the rules which promotes total anarchy. Hence the word "unruly".

I can't quote section blah blah of anything. However my daughter is head science teacher at a her local high school and I really worry when she tells me how little they can do now to control the bad eggs which every school has. Children are well aware of this and stand "nose to nose" with the teachers as they know full well the only punishment which can be meted out is suspension. Uniform rules keep all kids on a par and they aren't forever trying to upstage each other. The rules of this nature are usually decided on by the P and C. At this age they need rules - when they get to uni they have a lot more freedom and hopefully most of them have a good basic grounding and stay on the straight and narrow.

Unfortunately it's the teachers who are at the sharp end a lot of the time. The lefty teachers are part of the problem but they are in a minority. I always wonder what the kids' actual homelives must be like when they act they way they do. It makes me cringe when I hear people giving a load of invective out, in language that would make a trooper blush, in front of the kids and sometimes at the kids. Then at the end of the day those parents must have got that attitude from somewhere......it's never ending.