A teenager has admitted using a mobile phone to film dogs killing a cat and a young fox on Merseyside.
The 17-year-old, from Kirkby, was part of a gang who goaded the dogs into savaging the animals in 2008. At Knowsley Youth Court, he admitted two counts of causing unnecessary suffering to the animals by allowing dogs to kill them.
The teenager, who cannot be named, was warned that he could face custody when he is sentenced in a fortnight. The court was shown harrowing footage of the attacks, which took place in May and July 2008.
In one clip, a young fox is seen cowering in a cage in a field before large lurcher dogs are encouraged to tear it to pieces. In another piece of film, a black and white cat is stood on by one of the group as the dogs maul it to death.
The footage was found by Merseyside Police after officers seized the phone during an unrelated inquiry, the court heard. John Elwood, prosecuting for the RSPCA, said the attack on the cat was particularly disturbing.
"The full horror of the pain which the cat suffered can be discerned from the video recording," said Mr Elwood. "It is heard to be constantly wailing as it is torn to pieces alive," he added.
John Hinchcliffe, defending, said his client was just one of a number of people involved in the incidents but regretted his actions.
The hearing was adjourned for pre-sentence reports but Katherine Pye, chair of the bench, said they would be examined "with a view to a custodial sentence". The teenager was released on unconditional bail until the sentencing hearing on 23 February.
Name and shame the fookin piece of shit and if there was any justice they would let the rest of the world deal out our own punishment and turn a blind eye! Or how about get a group of hungry rottys and stick him in Eastham bear-pit with them and video that!!Tease the bastad and tell him we will let him go once he gives up the names of the rest of the ... present... and then leave the dogs to finish him off.
No doubt he will get a suspended sentence or something, because LABOUR like to look after criminals, if I were PM, id bring back hanging for ... like this!!
BBC News Report
"Name and shame the fookin piece of shit and if there was any justice they would let the rest of the world deal out our own punishment and turn a blind eye! Or how about get a group of hungry rottys and stick him in Eastham bear-pit with them and video that!!Tease the bastad and tell him we will let him go once he gives up the names of the rest of the ... present... and then leave the dogs to finish him off." MattLFC
How is that gonna work? What you are advocating is no better than the crime inflicted on the cat. Where does that leave you?
Sorry mate, but pricks like this deserve a taste of their own medicine. Where does it leave us? In a society with one less fookin sick bastad, who will never be able to do this shit again.
Don't tell me your from the human rights for criminals squad!!
And it does make me better, because fyi, I would not advocate the crime was carried out on an innocent, only those who do it to others.
No I'm not, but you see my point surely?
Not really no, your basically saying that people who do stuff like this, should be given a slap on the wrist, and told not to do it again, and left to live a happy and peaceful life.
Would you still be saying that if it was your pet? There is no difference between someone doing this and someone doing the same to a baby, how can you even consider showing mercy to lowlife scumbags not even worthy of carrying the title of human being that do things like this, and even worse, enjoy it so much that they film it for a second and third helping and so on.
The title of your post speaks volumes, seems like you are judge, jury and executioner, be 100 percent sure of your facts before condemning anyone, otherwise you might be end up in league with Pol Pot and Adolf Hitler.
Oh go away you fkin human rights terrorist, am sick of peeps like you standing up for criminals all the fkin time and ensuring they have an easy ride in life to commit their crimes, terrorise the rest of us honest hard working decent human beings and are looked after on the odd occasion they get caught... the prick has ADMITTED the act, the EVIDENCE proves the case, there is no case to answer, if there was any justice he would get the same treatment as he was happy to watch being dished out upon some poor, innocent and defenceless animals.
Criminals have far far too many rights in this country and as a result they have a very easy ride; dispicable acts like this should never be allowed to happen. And when they do, the punishment should be along the lines of the crime.
As I say, you would soon change your mind if it were one of your own. Until then, keep supporting the criminals - theres plenty of people like yourself in Westminister.
I'm not sticking up for anyone. I was pointing out tat your response was totally inapproriate because you were advocating violence, just like they had done.
The title of your post speaks volumes, seems like you are judge, jury and executioner, be 100 percent sure of your facts before condemning anyone, otherwise you might be end up in league with Pol Pot and Adolf Hitler.
fookin a mate, if it were my dog i caught someone doing that too i`d break their arms and legs so they wouldn`t do it again, criminals don`t listen or care anymore, prison is a load of shite to them too! Capital punishment IS the way forward, he has a point
I'm not sticking up for anyone. I was pointing out tat your response was totally inapproriate because you were advocating violence, just like they had done.
Lol, wake up man, this is 2010
Yes, I AM ADVOCATING VIOLENCE... not to INNOCENT people, only to the lowlife ... who are on this earth only to cause PAIN and SUFFERING to others. He might be pleading his sorrow in court, but thats just for the benefit of lighter sentencing, he not only watched and let it happen (and may have even taken part or helped arrange it) but he actually went to trouble of recording it, presumably to either watch it again and again or to show off to his mates etc...
He does not deserve to breathe the same air as we do... I am not advocating violence or hatred towards a person based on their race, religion, creed, accent, tradition, country or sex etc, simply towards disgusting sick barstard like this who have admitted their crimes and had appropriate evidence against them to back it up. Do you really want people like this walking the streets?
I hate the ... as much as you do but I won't ever advocate torture as a means to an end.
What happens in 2010 then Ste?
Times have changed, figure of speech, criminals of today only listen by means of violence, they aren`t arsed about prison, thats no deterant anymore.
So does that means torture is what you advocate?
Not to every criminal, no (but taking away any and all luxuries, and making prison a place of detention and a living hell [without going so far as physical harming etc) would be a good deterrent for most criminals to not to want to end up in there).
But if this ... thinks its okay to torture innocent and defenceless animals, then its okay in my book to torture him as well - in fact, it is quite appropriate! He aint no human or animal, he is ...!
"The full horror of the pain which the cat suffered can be discerned from the video recording," said Mr Elwood. "It is heard to be constantly wailing as it is torn to pieces alive," he added.
Anyone who has ever had the mis-fortune to stumble across the PETA video's will probably be able to grasp some kind of understanding of what this video and act must have been like. I did unfortunately view one many years ago via a social discussion regarding animal rights on WHT, and within 2 minutes, im not afraid to say it had me in tears, I had to turn it off and I could never ever watch it, or anything like it, again. Just thinking about it now, tears my heart to shreds.
So does that means torture is what you advocate?
No, i said he has a point!
Hmmm
It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this, what would you do if someone set their dog onto your moggy or any other pet for that matter and filmed it for pleasure
I'd be disgusted the same as anyone. At what point are you going to accept that I don't condone sick behaviour but nor do I accept lynch mobs who don't have enough to "torture" anyone with?
So what would be your preferred method of treatment towards ... like this?
How about if we just got rid of the torture element, and hung them instead?
Ok Matt, you do that and see where it gets you. Rationality needs to be a new curriculum topic I think.
I'd be disgusted the same as anyone. At what point are you going to accept that I don't condone sick behaviour but nor do I accept lynch mobs who don't have enough to "torture" anyone with?
I understand that, they are your views, each to their own, i don`t condone it either but there comes a point when enough is enough, there is only so much people can take and when the law is failing to do get through to them some people take matters into their own hands for justice
We each have our own view don`t we?
The ... walk all over people like you, your too forgiving
Ok Matt, you do that and see where it gets you. Rationality needs to be a new curriculum topic I think.
Im still eagerly awaiting to hear what you would have done to the ... involved in this?
The ... walk all over people like you, your too forgiving
Not only that, it is the protection the recieve from people like this, that entices them to do these acts in the first place. The fear of getting caught does not exist and has not done so for a very long time.
Make someone petrfied of getting caught carrying out a sick, sadistic act such as this etc, and the chances are they will think twice before they do it. Only the really warped morons with no chance of ever becoming a decent human being, will be stupid enough to do it then, and they deffo deserve to be disposed of, for the sake of humanity.
I find it amazing how many many people agree that when an animal is too dangerous, it should be put to sleep... yet also seem to agree that humans that share the very same traits (in fact its even worse in a human as they are a more intelligent species and have less of an "animal instinct"), should be able to walk free and continue posing a significant risk to others.
I'd wait till they were convicted first then I'd mess with their heads, but till then don't spout off about doing stuff you can't justify. Look up the term "lynch mob" then score yourself 1 to 10. Let me know where you score ok.
Look up the term "lynch mob" then score yourself 1 to 10. Let me know where you score ok.
Looks pretty good that bob, cheers, downloading now
I can justify it fine; ive not seen any compelling argument against it as yet, other than the usual criminals should have rights, and you are advocating violence.
As I say, id never condone any violence towards an innocent, but this kind of ... knows no different, and the only way to ensure somebody this sick in the head, never does anything like this again, is to remove them from the earth.
A life for a life. Regardless of whether the victim was an animal or a human. And though he may not have perpetrated the crime itself (this isnt clear), I would'nt like to think we are willy-nilly allowing people who find sadistic acts like this jolly good entertainment and even record it for second helpings, to walk the streets and pose a danger to everyone else.
Lynching is extrajudicial punishment carried out by a mob, usually by hanging in order to intimidate, control, or otherwise manipulate a population of people, however large or small. It is related to other means of social control that arise in communities, such as charivari, riding the rail, and tarring and feathering. Lynchings were more frequent in times of social and economic tension, and often were means by the politically dominant population to oppress social challenges
from wikipedia
We are not talking about people/groups social challenges etc here... we are not talking about the supression of people who are acting quite legally in whatever it is they are doing; we are talking about crime, and making criminals scared shitless to carry out crimes.
If anyone disagree's with this thinking, they are effectively saying crime and criminals have a place in society, or are a lawyer/judge etc that wants to stay in work.
A deterrent is always the best option. If a criminal is deterred from committing a crime in the first place, then you don't have to pick up the pieces afterwards.
You are straying into policitical population control, which this issue is not about. We live in a stable and intelligent enough society to understand and realise that a deterrent for commiting crimes can only be a good thing, without allowing it to be extended to other area's of life and society.
We already live in a country of deterrent in many other area's anyway... take health for example, everywhere you look there is messages trying to deter people from smoking... I take heed of the warning and choose not to smoke - it won't stop diseases like cancer, but it can help prevent certain types cancer for some people and lower the overall death rate in the long-term - a fact even the Nazi-socialist regime knew and pressed upon its subjects...
Stop putting words in peoples mouthes-your opinion remains your own, don'tbe crass enough to foist it upon anyone else.
Well stop quoting things from Wikipedia, without reading and understanding them first. What you say there, makes out that you feel by deterring crime by using scare-tactics etc, will lead to the government using it in other area's of life.
You have already quoted that you feel dishing out capital punishment to criminals is comparable to some of the acts carried out by the Nazi party and the like. I, and I would think nobody else, on this forum, would condone or want to promote the ways of the Nazi party in their wrongdoings. But I am also sure that people are generally sick to death of criminals constantly being defended by people, being given suspended sentences etc, and on the odd occasion they do go to prison, human rights activists seeing to it that they are looked after and made to feel very comfortable.
Im not overly opposed to human rights (though like most people, I take issue with some elements of it), however I am of the opinion that everyone has a choice to commit a crime, and 99.9% of criminals are intelligent enough to make a decision, and once someone commits a crime, they should have no rights excepts for the basics, access to food, water, excercise, daylight, sanitation etc, and a right not to be treated inappropriately - nothing more. For crimes that are sick and sadistic like this, they should be hanged or face the same fate as Mussolini, dependent on the crime.
Also, this is a discussion forum - if you don't actually want to discuss the subject of the thread and instead just want to sit there nit-picking without actually posting something to counter or agree with the flow of dicsussion, then don't post in it. When you citate a source from Wikipedia and make a point, please have the decency to expand further on what the point is that you are trying to make, otherwise we all have to try and work out (or assume) the point you are trying to make, which may be incorrect.
Haha at least I pleasured you with the honesty of my source. I really can't believe why you've got such a bee in your bonnet. Let's go back a bit and remember what we were whinging about in the first place shall we?
Someone wanted something nasty to happen to a nasty person who did something nasty to an innocent animal-ok something needs doing fine by me but to take the stance of killing them by letting them be torn apart by some killer dogs isnt really a rational approach is it? FFS STOP AND THINK WILL YOU
Lol, lets not be falling out over this guys, i have to go, up early
Was it rational to allow some dogs to tear a fox and cat to pieces, alive? Is this the type of human being we want in our society?
A suspended prison sentence says it's a-ok for people to do things like this. A short prison sentence will give him a holiday, and will certainlly not deter him from commiting future crimes (which he will do, given how warped his way of thinking must be). Give him life in prison - that cost's the taxpayer £28,000 per annum, and achieves nothing, because he lives the life of reilly, and it will only improve if Labour and the human rights activists have their own way.
The only suitable punishment imho, is to let this scumbag have a taste of his own medicine, let him yelp for his life like that poor cat had to whilst being torn apart.
If we want to do things humanely, hang the bastad and have done with it.
If prisons were a place of detention with only the most basic of human rights as stated in the post above, then maybe that might be a suitable form of punishment, but we all know they are nothing more than a locked-up social club.
Either of the last two may prove enough of a deterrent to save just one innocent animals life in the future... but regardless, it sends out the message to other sick fooks that society will not tolerate these horrorific acts.
Just because its an animal, does not make it any lesser of a crime (though under UK law, it will be seen as that - one thing the Nazi party did have right was they believed fundamentally in the rights of animals).
The only suitable punishment imho, is to let this scumbag have a taste of his own medicine, let him yelp for his life like that poor cat had to whilst being torn apart.
I'm sorry but retribution cannot be the right way forward. If that was the case society would be a place where you cut off someones ear if the spilled your coffee ffs. Whwn will the world stop wanting the utmost punishment for any crime?
Since when has spilling coffee, been a crime? Again, you are taking this out of proportion - we are talking about crime and criminals, and more noteably, lowlife, sick, sadistic, ....
He didnt rob Tesco, he didnt get caught not wearing a seatbelt in a moving car, lets keep it in the context of the crime. For most crimes, simply making prison a very strict, non-luxury place of detention would suffice, and offer a much stronger deterrent than what we currently have.
For ..., who are warped in the head and commit sickening acts such as this, why should'nt they face the utmost punishment for their crimes?
I don't want people like this walking the streets, posing a risk to every decent human being in this land - id rather have shot of all these rapists, murderers, child abusers, sicko's etc. How long are we going to allow ... like the Bulgar murderers take the piss out of society, be looked after by the authorities and lead full and enjoyable lives? How long are we going to keep paying to keep rapists in relatively enjoyable surroundings, in many cases that are better than hard-working and honest human beings on the lowest wages?
How long are we prepared to put up with crime? This softly-softly approach since the abolition of hanging has not worked, prison life is getting easier and easier and there is no longer any deterrent.
I see it as simple - if people don't want to do the time, they don't do the crime - as it stands right now, people will risk doing the crime, because the time isnt very hard for them to be doing, if indeed they even get a custodial sentence. Let's have a go at returning to capital punishment, making prisons a place of dentention, because it certainly cannot make crime any worse than it is now!
No wonder you were having a go at me Matt, with that point of view,no-one could possibly compete in the "i'm Hitler's little brother" stakes. FYI I'm not a tree hugger or a liberal who wants criminals to get off lightly but I also don't want to go around scaremongering and calling for the death penalty for anyone who oversteps the line. Get a grip or else get some councelling.
Some sound advice for yourself to take heed of there, supporting sick barstard like this, practically condoning what he has done (without actually saying so) and making your case for him to be let off scot-free.
You wernt one of his chums were you? Because if your not a "tree hugger or a liberal who wants criminals to get off lightly", then you must have some other motive for these criminals to get off lightly?
Anything you want to get off your chest? Maybe you should pop down your nearest police station and confess?
All I personally want, is a country where crime is pressed upon hard, ive no problem with criminals being surpressed, I just want to live in peace and security and not have to fear what criminal will strike me or a member of my family/friends. Or any innocent person or animal for that matter. It's quite clear that the current approach with criminals isnt working, as crime is soaring and sick crimes like this are becoming more and more commonplace. It's time for a different approach, its time to PUNISH the criminals and let the honest, hard working decent folk reap the rewards and benefits of a life with substantially less crime.
If you want to leave the current crime situation as it is, and let the criminals continue running free, wrecking the place, terrorising innocent people and animals, killing and raping pensioners, children and babies, then I would strongly suggest you get some professional help, because that is as warped thinking as the ... concerned in the OP. I hope you and no member of your family is never affected by a horrific crime like this, but if you were, I should think you might then wake up and smell the coffee.
Oh, and the Court Of Appeal certainly seems to share my view, as do the majority of the public, judging from recent events and polls.
Look, just go back to the start of this topic and read what was said. I never condoned them but neither did I accept your idea of them being ripped apart by dogs. the end doen't justify the means.
We are going to have to agree to disagree here.
Just out of interest considering we have different views on crime and punishment techniques, how do you stand on the recent Munir Hussain case? My personal opinion, quite predictably, is I say give the guy a medal. It is simply another prime example of a failing justice system imho.
He defended his family admirably
Interesting, thanks for sharing
I agree that we have different views on crime and punishment techniques, how do you feel about this?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hGtxlnxOgZFk8kENoJtMSz-wuHYw
Im not entirely sure on whether you are looking at the punishment towards the child or the punishment towards the man, but id assume the man.
Give him the maximum sentence possible for the crime - he is obviously not a suitable parent and should never be allowed access to any children in an un-supervised situation ever again. Being drunk is no excuse for a crime like that.
My point again is-the end doesn't justify the means.
Huh? You are saying you would trust this moron around children?
ffs no, this is getting stupid now-I'm going to bed, suggest you do the same-we can shake hands and agree to disagree in the morning.
I'd love to, but im currently working till 8am been dropped right in it tonight by my techs haha
No problem with the shaking hands and agreeing to disagree here though.
I hope he does get a stiff prison sentence, with a bit of luck he may get 10 years but i doubt it. The problem is the sick crime he has carried out has been going on for years, its called The Hunt and Kings, Queens, lords and Lady's etc, etc have stood by and watched and filmed animals being torn apart, and they call it sport and a pleasurable time had by all. In his little uneducated sick mind that's how he probably views it, a laugh and some sort of sport. So if we want this kind of lowlife to conform and show compassion towards animals maybe its about time for it to start at the top, and it may filter down.
I can't help thinking the kid who did it probably needs psychiatric help, not prison or a good kicking
...send him to prison for a bit first - somewhere he can get torn a new arsehole
Make the prisons like prisons instead of like 50's Billy Butlins and people would think twice about risking getting sent there, they should be a hard place to be. Community sentences don't work, ditto ASBOs and all the other mamby pamby sentencing options they use these days, the crims just take the piss and wear them like a badge of honour amongst their sicko contemporaries. Build bigger better nicks with just the basics and employ tough ex-squaddies as screws because they hate seeing what they are fighting for being driven into the mire.
How many murderers who inflicted awful torture on their victims (the likes of Thompson and Venables are a prime example) started their life of crime by torturing animals!?!
There are certain crimes that should be punished by the same method of the crime!! Men who rape should have their behinds violated severely before their c*cks are cut off slowly with a blunt rusty saw and then subsequently destroyed like the ... they are. Anyone who murders, rapes, abuses children, the elderly and animals etc should not be allowed to live IMO.
Prison, as stated many many times, should be a deterrent. 10 to a cell, 1 bucket between them, locked up for 23hrs a day, 15 mins per meal and 15mins for shower etc. Make them work or pay for their "accommodation" instead of the Tax Payer!!
I am with you MattLFC, Hang the barstard, or have thier families kicked out of the house and moved away while they are doing time. It said in the Liverpool Echo that they refused to open the door for the police so they had to kick in the door. They said they will not be paying any legal charges or fine's as they can't afford it. (I say take it out of thier frigging dole) I live in Kirkby and my cat was torn apart by the same type of dog and teenages, can't prove it was the same kids, as I didn't see it but my nieghbours did and said it was the same dog. it broke my heart to see the poor thing suffer in the vets
this was at 3:30 in the morning so these yobs only had one thing in mind at that hour.. I took her to the PDSA in huyton
where she had all her ribs crushed and internal bleeding. but passed away there and then...Name these sick barstard...
Feb 23 2010 By Luke Traynor
A MERSEYSIDE teenager was sent to jail for four months for setting dogs on defenceless animals and filming them being ripped to pieces.
The 17-year-old was part of a sick gang who revelled in the killings and videoed the lurchers torturing and killing a fox cub and family cat.
The Kirkby youth, who cannot be named, was given a four month detention and training order at Huyton Magitsrates Court today and banned owning an animal for up to 10 years.
The attacks, which took place in 2008, were described as 'despicable and horrendous' in court.
The teenager cannot be named after magistrate Katherine Pye refused the ECHO’s application at a previous hearing to name the yob saying identification would "cause him potential damage".
Also found on the boy's mobile phone were further sick images of another cat and birds being tortured.
4 months
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/live...rrendous-animal-cruelty-100252-25896590/
4 months? 4 F*&!ING MONTHS! should have her limbs ripped apart by her own dogs and left to die of blood loss whilst she watches the dogs chew on her limbs.
god sometimes i wish i had my own prison facility.
Tilly, theres some sickos around....makes me mad....
Sickening. Gotta be a sociopath- a threat to society. What / who next- in 2 months? Disgusting piece of shit.
Sick barstard. BTW Sefton and Knowsley have 2 of the highest rates of fatal attacks by dogs in the country. Which reminds me, how did you get on with that fatal attack case Rudebox?
Bring back the Birch, its well past the time we stopped been soft with these ...