Advice for dealing with garages - 1st May 2010 6:50pm
I was hoping to put a thread together to give advice and experiences of dealing with garages, concentrating on the used car market and vechicles that need general run of the mill repairs and fixes. I’m not trying to concentrate too much on new cars or design faults with components, but more for advice on taking your car in to be fixed.
I’m not a car mechanic, but I have grown up around family that spent a great deal of time fixing vechicles and reconditioning engines and i’ve visited garages more times than I care to remember.
Typically as cars get older, see more use and drive more miles things tend to wear out, components will break and the car will need regular servicing to keep it mechanically sound.
What sort of things can go wrong?
Well pretty much anything can give up on a car because they take a lot of abuse from bouncing over roads, carrying people and operating in a variety of conditions.
Where should I take my car when I have a problem?
This is the million dollar question and it depends on many factors. You may choose to repair the car yourself, take it somewhere because it’s convenient for you, cheap, does good quality repairs, can fit it in when you need it, know the owner, they provide a courtsey car or any number of other reasons. The big question for me is what is wrong with the car? as this will dictate where I take it. If it’s tyre/wheel related, it goes to a tyre shop, if it’s mechanical I may fix it myself or take it to a local garage.
How do I know what’s wrong?
Well this can be completey obvious like a flat tyre or more often than not some diagnosis has to be performed. Now the diagnosis can be the tricky bit as many garages may charge you to perform fault finding.
Much on a car can be visually insepected or faults may be detecible in the way a car behaves in particular sitations, such as braking, acceleration, cold starting or idling. Alternatively, electronics may come into the picture.
Electronics
Many cars started getting more complicated in the mid to late 1980’s this was an effort to reduce emissions and make cars more efficient. A device called an engine management system or “ECU” controls how the engine behaves. These devices are fitted to almost all modern cars and have typically replaced carberators.
Simply, petrol engines need fuel, air and sparks to operate; the ECU will regulate the fuel/air mixture and govern the ignition timing of the engine to ensure it runs well. It gets this information from a number of sensors that measures things like the water temperature, fuel pressure, cam shaft postion, air and throttle (acclerator) position.
This complicates matters as there are more components that can go wrong than older cars, but these ECU devices are clever and can perform diagnostics and log events in their memory when sensor signals go out of expected range or disappear altogether. Your car will typically throw an error light when this happens, usually at the same time the error will be stored so you can take it to a garage so they can read the error and tell you what’s wrong.
This is where they may charge to perform this diagnosis, a main dealer fee could be upwards of £50 and you would usually get a print out. You could then fix it yourself or take it to another garage that doesn’t own the diagnostic kit to get the repairs done cheaper.
Taking the car along
I like to print out a description of whats wrong with the car including any steps taken to make the fault occur. I explain the sitation that causes the fault, what happens, how often is happens and the typical symptons. One printed copy goes in the car and the other gets handed in to the garage reception with my keys.
I tried to avoid telling the garage too much about what I think the problem is, I let them make that determination if I’m paying for the diagnosis. In a recent example of mine, I tell the garage that I want to book my car in for a fault with wheel wobble when braking because that’s what needs fixing. I don’t say that I want them to replace the discs and pads as these may not be at fault. I ask them to call me when they’ve made their assessment with a cost & implications, then I decide what to do next.
The main dealer & specialist
I have a modified BMW and it’s fairly complicated so if it’s not obvious what’s wrong with it, I like to take it to someone who knows these cars inside out. On a recent MOT, the garage told me that my prop shaft output flange was leaking. I looked in my Haynes book and basically I would have needed a ramp to easily undertake the work. I made some enquiries and got some prices. I rang a BMW specialist who said it’s rare that the prop shaft flange goes, more likely selector shaft seal that’s above and the oil is leaking on the prop; sure enough that’s what the problem was. I was glad I never took it to a non-specialist as I probably would have ended up paying twice.
Whilst a back street garage may sound cheap, it is worth considering the specialist if the repair could be complicated or if you’re not entirely sure what’s wrong.
What to do if things go wrong
I am the worst customer going, typically everything I own goes back the shop, if there is a fault I’ll find it and I will fight refunds or reimbursments to the bitter end if I believe that I am in the right.
I took my car to a main dealer who diagnosed that a wheel wobble was caused by suspension components. After paying the diagnostic and repair fees, I was almost £250 out of pocket. I drove 400 yards down the road and the car did it again. I was fuming as they told me it was fixed.
I write the garage a letter sent by registered post to explain the situation and demand the car to be fixed as i’d paid for a diagnostic (always keep the reports). We exchanged a few letters, once I decided that I wasn’t getting anywhere I used the money claim online service. The garage coughed up with a full refund and the director rang me with an apology. Money clain online is very easy to do and only costs £25 (which you’ll get back if you win). It's sort of like an online small claims court.
I would not get into bitter arguements with garages then ask them to do the work as they may sabotage your car with iron filings in the filler cap or similar. Always go for the refund and take it elsewhere.
Replacing parts
I’m fimrly of the opionion that as parts are expensive it’s always worth finding out what part has failed, don’t just replace bits because it “could be that”. Been through this myself when a few cars of mine developed idling problems.” It’s the idle air control valve” says the novice garage, “you should replace that”. Really? That’s bollocks as there are many things that can cause idling issues such as leaky inlet manifold gaskets and loose wires. Get the diagnositc first.
Other methods I have used
I bought a car from a local dealer to have no end of problems with it. Must have taken it back over 17 times under their so called warranty. I waited until the garage was at it’s busiest (sat morning) and started loudly mouthing off about it in front of customers. They didn’t like it one bit. Always go in force to do this, never go alone.
As i’d taken it back 17 times, they had demonstrated to me that they couldn’t fix the problem. I told them to book it in with the main dealer, to which they agreed. Now I’m not stupid, I told them to arrange the booking with the dealer and that i’d drop the car off directly at the dealer myself. When the car was fixed I would call at their garage first to collect the cheque to pay the main dealer with so I could collect my car. Doing this helped ensure that they couldn’t damage my vehicle or blag me off. I also got the main dealer’s receipts to keep for the work.
Some points I'd like to share:
1) Keep your car regulary serviced. At least change the oil & filter if nothing else
2) Consider paying the diagnostic if it's not clear what the problem is.
3) Ring round for estimates once the problem is diagnosed (if it's expensive)
4) Send letters by registered post if you have a disagreement with a garage
5) Cheap isn't always best. Specialists and main dealers are good for complicated jobs and they will know your car well
6) Don't just start replacing parts if you don't know what's wrong
7) Go on recommendations and search on the net for people's experiences
8) don't leave your car with a garage after a bitter arguement
9) Don't flog a dead horse, if it costs more to fix than what it's worth, consider getting rid.
10) just because it has an MOT doesn't mean it won't have any probs.
Comments and experiences welcome!
I’m not a car mechanic, but I have grown up around family that spent a great deal of time fixing vechicles and reconditioning engines and i’ve visited garages more times than I care to remember.
Typically as cars get older, see more use and drive more miles things tend to wear out, components will break and the car will need regular servicing to keep it mechanically sound.
What sort of things can go wrong?
Well pretty much anything can give up on a car because they take a lot of abuse from bouncing over roads, carrying people and operating in a variety of conditions.
Where should I take my car when I have a problem?
This is the million dollar question and it depends on many factors. You may choose to repair the car yourself, take it somewhere because it’s convenient for you, cheap, does good quality repairs, can fit it in when you need it, know the owner, they provide a courtsey car or any number of other reasons. The big question for me is what is wrong with the car? as this will dictate where I take it. If it’s tyre/wheel related, it goes to a tyre shop, if it’s mechanical I may fix it myself or take it to a local garage.
How do I know what’s wrong?
Well this can be completey obvious like a flat tyre or more often than not some diagnosis has to be performed. Now the diagnosis can be the tricky bit as many garages may charge you to perform fault finding.
Much on a car can be visually insepected or faults may be detecible in the way a car behaves in particular sitations, such as braking, acceleration, cold starting or idling. Alternatively, electronics may come into the picture.
Electronics
Many cars started getting more complicated in the mid to late 1980’s this was an effort to reduce emissions and make cars more efficient. A device called an engine management system or “ECU” controls how the engine behaves. These devices are fitted to almost all modern cars and have typically replaced carberators.
Simply, petrol engines need fuel, air and sparks to operate; the ECU will regulate the fuel/air mixture and govern the ignition timing of the engine to ensure it runs well. It gets this information from a number of sensors that measures things like the water temperature, fuel pressure, cam shaft postion, air and throttle (acclerator) position.
This complicates matters as there are more components that can go wrong than older cars, but these ECU devices are clever and can perform diagnostics and log events in their memory when sensor signals go out of expected range or disappear altogether. Your car will typically throw an error light when this happens, usually at the same time the error will be stored so you can take it to a garage so they can read the error and tell you what’s wrong.
This is where they may charge to perform this diagnosis, a main dealer fee could be upwards of £50 and you would usually get a print out. You could then fix it yourself or take it to another garage that doesn’t own the diagnostic kit to get the repairs done cheaper.
Taking the car along
I like to print out a description of whats wrong with the car including any steps taken to make the fault occur. I explain the sitation that causes the fault, what happens, how often is happens and the typical symptons. One printed copy goes in the car and the other gets handed in to the garage reception with my keys.
I tried to avoid telling the garage too much about what I think the problem is, I let them make that determination if I’m paying for the diagnosis. In a recent example of mine, I tell the garage that I want to book my car in for a fault with wheel wobble when braking because that’s what needs fixing. I don’t say that I want them to replace the discs and pads as these may not be at fault. I ask them to call me when they’ve made their assessment with a cost & implications, then I decide what to do next.
The main dealer & specialist
I have a modified BMW and it’s fairly complicated so if it’s not obvious what’s wrong with it, I like to take it to someone who knows these cars inside out. On a recent MOT, the garage told me that my prop shaft output flange was leaking. I looked in my Haynes book and basically I would have needed a ramp to easily undertake the work. I made some enquiries and got some prices. I rang a BMW specialist who said it’s rare that the prop shaft flange goes, more likely selector shaft seal that’s above and the oil is leaking on the prop; sure enough that’s what the problem was. I was glad I never took it to a non-specialist as I probably would have ended up paying twice.
Whilst a back street garage may sound cheap, it is worth considering the specialist if the repair could be complicated or if you’re not entirely sure what’s wrong.
What to do if things go wrong
I am the worst customer going, typically everything I own goes back the shop, if there is a fault I’ll find it and I will fight refunds or reimbursments to the bitter end if I believe that I am in the right.
I took my car to a main dealer who diagnosed that a wheel wobble was caused by suspension components. After paying the diagnostic and repair fees, I was almost £250 out of pocket. I drove 400 yards down the road and the car did it again. I was fuming as they told me it was fixed.
I write the garage a letter sent by registered post to explain the situation and demand the car to be fixed as i’d paid for a diagnostic (always keep the reports). We exchanged a few letters, once I decided that I wasn’t getting anywhere I used the money claim online service. The garage coughed up with a full refund and the director rang me with an apology. Money clain online is very easy to do and only costs £25 (which you’ll get back if you win). It's sort of like an online small claims court.
I would not get into bitter arguements with garages then ask them to do the work as they may sabotage your car with iron filings in the filler cap or similar. Always go for the refund and take it elsewhere.
Replacing parts
I’m fimrly of the opionion that as parts are expensive it’s always worth finding out what part has failed, don’t just replace bits because it “could be that”. Been through this myself when a few cars of mine developed idling problems.” It’s the idle air control valve” says the novice garage, “you should replace that”. Really? That’s bollocks as there are many things that can cause idling issues such as leaky inlet manifold gaskets and loose wires. Get the diagnositc first.
Other methods I have used
I bought a car from a local dealer to have no end of problems with it. Must have taken it back over 17 times under their so called warranty. I waited until the garage was at it’s busiest (sat morning) and started loudly mouthing off about it in front of customers. They didn’t like it one bit. Always go in force to do this, never go alone.
As i’d taken it back 17 times, they had demonstrated to me that they couldn’t fix the problem. I told them to book it in with the main dealer, to which they agreed. Now I’m not stupid, I told them to arrange the booking with the dealer and that i’d drop the car off directly at the dealer myself. When the car was fixed I would call at their garage first to collect the cheque to pay the main dealer with so I could collect my car. Doing this helped ensure that they couldn’t damage my vehicle or blag me off. I also got the main dealer’s receipts to keep for the work.
Some points I'd like to share:
1) Keep your car regulary serviced. At least change the oil & filter if nothing else
2) Consider paying the diagnostic if it's not clear what the problem is.
3) Ring round for estimates once the problem is diagnosed (if it's expensive)
4) Send letters by registered post if you have a disagreement with a garage
5) Cheap isn't always best. Specialists and main dealers are good for complicated jobs and they will know your car well
6) Don't just start replacing parts if you don't know what's wrong
7) Go on recommendations and search on the net for people's experiences
8) don't leave your car with a garage after a bitter arguement
9) Don't flog a dead horse, if it costs more to fix than what it's worth, consider getting rid.
10) just because it has an MOT doesn't mean it won't have any probs.
Comments and experiences welcome!